[ESPN] – Tue, 12 Dec 2023 08:42:00 GMT
Raptors fire back at Knicks, hint at countersuit
[ESPN] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 17:56:00 GMT
- Knicks center Robinson to have ankle surgery
- Mitchell Robinson out at least eight weeks in Knicks injury crisis
- Knicks Mitchell Robinson to undergo ankle surgery, miss at least 8-10 weeks
- Knicks best options to replace Mitchell Robinson after ankle injury
- Jericho Sims gets Knicks start with Mitchell Robinson out
[Celtics Blog] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:00:00 GMT
The worst jump ball youll ever see and why the NBA needs to eliminate it altogether
[New York Post] – Tue, 12 Dec 2023 06:15:20 GMT
- Knicks share the wealth to top Raptors without Mitchell Robinson
- RAPTORS at KNICKS | FULL GAME HIGHLIGHTS | December 11, 2023
- Knicks 136-130 Raptors (Dec 11, 2023) Game Recap
- Game Thread: Knicks vs Raptors, December 11, 2023
- Toronto Raptors at New York Knicks odds, picks and predictions
[Posting and Toasting] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:30:00 GMT
- Are Immanuel Quickleys Knicks days numbered?
- New York Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley Perfect Fit For San Antonio Spurs
- Two teams reportedly want to ‘swipe’ star PG from Knicks
- Would Knicks include Immanuel Quickley in trade at deadline?
- Knicks’ Struggles Could Finally Lead to Immanuel Quickley Trade
[Silver Screen and Roll] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 22:41:09 GMT
Lakers give updates on the unveiling of the In-Season Tournament banner
[LakersNation.com] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:44:03 GMT
Lakers Rumors: Gabe Vincent Hopeful For Dec. 18 Return Vs. Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 12 Dec 2023 00:15:39 GMT
Immanuel Quickley OUT vs. Toronto Raptors – New York Knicks Injury Tracker
60 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.12.12)”
New York vs Toronto W 136-130 Record 13-9
A much needed win in the wake of harsh injury news, it wasn’t pretty but kept our streak against losing teams alive (11-0) and put supplies in the pantry before the Western trip.
Both teams choosed to forfeit defense for the majority of the game and this Knicks team has enough firepower to crush weak teams that just try to outshoot them.
In a very rare occurrence all the Knicks players shot 50% or more from the field, with a very spry Julius setting the tone (15 points in the 1st quarter) and the duo of RJ (12) and J-Hart (9) closing things out in the 4th.
Grimes Reborn Part II was a smashing success (19 points, 5-7 3FG, a couple of well-timed shots) and the Odd Couple* at center worked well (like last year), but there are worries about the real state of JB’s ankle, let’s hope for the best.
* One is stone faced and never talk, the other makes faces all the time and can’t keep his mouth shut.
THOUGHTS
– Our offense worked pretty well (see below) but the defense, albeit missing two key pieces, pissed me off.
I’m worried, this recipe hasn’t worked with good teams so far and could become a problem during this upcoming stretch.
– It’s still early but looking at the standings this could be a year with minimum drama about the play-in race.
With tank-a-palooza running at full speed there’s a chance only the 10th spot in both league could be contended and only by a couple of teams (and Dallas set a bad precedent last year).
It’ll be IMPOSSIBLE for our team to miss at least a play-in spot, so relax and just wait for april…
– RANT
You have the best backup center in the League and he’ll be a free agent at the end of the season. Your starting center went down with an injury and who you use in the starting lineup to take his place? Your very good backup center who dreams to start and would probably do it for a third of the League, right? No, to your seldom used (25 minutes in 21 games) backup-backup-center.
I’m mad at Sims? No, he always does his job.
I’m astonished about our coach total lack of “sensible” skills.
I totally get why so many players don’t want to play for him, I’d do the same.
END OF RANT
Next: the first stop of the Western swing is a cupcake, Utah is so bad they’re starting my fellow italian Simone Fontecchio. Things get much dicier after this, at least until 2024…
STAT OF THE GAME
36. Knicks’ assists on 52 made baskets (69.2%). Great (and a season high).
60.5%/58.6%. Knicks shooting numbers, overall and from three (17-29).
Good things happen when you share the ball.
GRADES:
Brunson B-
Not your usual Little General. The ankle is clearly bothering him so he shot less (7-12) managed more (9 assists) but looked sometimes out of synch (7 TO is a new career high) and was targeted on defense over and over. And he’s missing too many FTs (only 15-22 in the last 3 games)
Randle A-
The full offensive arsenal on display, he blow the Raptors defense to smithereens. His in a good place offensively right now and I really hope he continues, but while I think his rebounding number are a random “system glitch” (“only” 19 in the last 3 games) I wonder if his absolute lack of interest on the defensive side is substainable against stronger teams.
Barrett B+
Parsing his efficient statline (season hig 27 points on 11-21 FG including 3-8 3FG) you find a good start (7 points in the 1st) and a great finish (12 on 5-5 shooting in the 4th) sandwiched a so-so middle game (3-11 FG combined 2nd+3rd).
I like players who score when it counts more than “pure numbers” and he often does it, so I’m good.
Donte DiVincenzo B
He’s a 360° basketball player, not only a shooter (4 REB, 5 AST, 1 BLK). He took Grimes spot in the lineup (I think it’s called “dummy” if you play Bridge) and quickly learned that you will shoot less playing with the 3-Lefties than when playing with Steph. Funny.
Sims B
The Grasshopper took down 7 boards, made an assist (!!) and alley-hooped a dunk, all without moving a single facial muscle. He fit his role and kept a lot of possessions alive after missed shots, well done.
Grimes A
Basketballs, oranges, beach balls, frisbees, pumpkins, he did shoot everything they passes him and did it really well.
I already said it, a pissed off QDot is a better QDot, keep the anger flowing young man!
Hart A
He’s definitively back to be the spark we knew last year. 16 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists (!!), tons of energy, it’s impossible not to love him.
Hartenstein B+
The best backup center in the league keeps going strong (11 points, 8 rebounds). I think his defense is underrated by Knicks fans (not on this blog).
McBride B
10 minutes, 3 assists, a three, good job.
Thibs B
The team was missing two key pieces so, even if the Raptors are bad, he did a decent job. For further comments I want my lawyer.
So nice to wake up to a happy Max recap on a morning where I have a 6-hour drive ahead of me. Thank you sir, as a show of gratitude I won’t take issue with your grades!
LOL Z-Man 😀
Have a safe travel man!
I, for one, am totally fine with Sims starting over iHart. The main reason is that I think iHart has a tendency of picking up cheap fouls due to overexuberance or something (stupidity?) I also think that Brunson, Randle, and RJ are better suited to carrying Sims’ complete lack of offensive game aside from lob-catching and putbacks, which means that there is no change from Mitch in that regard. But the fouling is a big deal…if iHart picks up two quick ones, that’s a disaster in the making. And with our defensive issues vs. other teams’ starters, meaning Brunson and Randle, that will certainly happen.
Now if iHart can learn how to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and to not push off on rebounds, maybe I’d gravitate to your side of the rant. But for this stretch without Mitch, the fouls are my biggest worry, so I’ll side with Thibs until further notice.
I also think we have to either call up Roby or sign a vets’ minimum guy, and quick. We need big bodies.
PS: Not sure I would go as far as to say that iHart would start for a third of the teams in the NBA. He’s pretty good, but most teams have someone at least in his neighborhood.
Random thoughts
1. I think RJ has improved to the point where I don’t consider him a huge negative as one of our starters.
2. I have a growing feeling Quickley is going to get traded at the deadline. There’s too much talk about teams like Orlando and San Antonio needing a starting PG and having the cap space to make a huge offer. I think the Knicks would be reluctant to match a really big offer given they see him as a backup and have reduced his minutes anyway (imo insanely).
3. If Quickley is on the block. Toronto could be an option. IMO, they need a long term upgrade at PG. Perhaps Quickley + Fournier + some pick compensation for OG would work if the Raptors decide to rebuild after this slow start. OG is young enough for them to keep. So I think they’d rather move Siakam who is 29. But Quickley is younger and will be cheaper than OG.
4. Ironically, I’m less hot on an OG trade now than I was last year. Last year I was thinking in terms of trading RJ who I thought was a negative on both sides. I thought going from a negative on both sides to a positive on both sides would give us a huge bump up. But since then RJ has improved a little and we are taking about Quickley now. Since last year it has become apparent that whoever plays with Brunson, Randle, and RJ is going to have a limited role in the offense. OG is already complaining about his usage in Toronto. He’d go crazy playing in NY with those 3 and would cost a fortune next year. It makes less sense.
All I’m saying is we’re 2-0 against the Raptors since we filed that lawsuit against them
Raptors suck, all we need now is Berman back to write “take that Masai”.
Watched most of the game last night, but I’m still having a hard time figuring out why the Raps are so bad.
Barnes is a star in the making, Poeltl is solid, Siakam is still a strong player… I guess they still lack outside shooting? Even with Barnes’ improvement.
I thought Schröder would be better this year, but I guess they need better guard play. And Randle really abused Barnes on D. Feels like OG is really their only great defender now.
On the Knicks, it will be interesting to see if the Grimes renaissance gets affected by Quickley’s return or not. There is only one basketball, so maybe it was smart to make Donte the starter, since he can subsist on a diet of nuts and berries while Grimes can get the turkey sandwiches he wants with the bench unit.
And to continue with this metaphor, it’s really nice when RJ pays for his steaks! Let’s hope he keeps it up.
I’d like to see IHart start but I get what Z-man is saying.
A few people in the thread last night said this was an ugly win.
The next two months while Mitch is out. Any win will be a good win. We were missing our best defensive player and starting Center and our 6th man of the year and bench spark plug. We needed that win badly and we got it and we got good offensive production from multiple players.
If IQ is back, I’d like to see Brunson take a game off. Let McBride continue to get some minutes and let IQ start.
I also do get the feeling IQ is getting traded soon. Makes me sad but if we get a good return it will be ok.
this was basically the reverse bucks game… we shot 60% from 3 but barely escaped so i wouldn’t feel too happy about the game… it was nice seeing various guys getting on track tho.. and we’re going to need that…
i wasn’t too confident about our offense before.. and i’m still a bit worried about it… but our defense has got more worrying issues now… particularly when we don’t force as many turnovers as we once did….
That makes several of us.
I think the bench is suspect and of course the 3P shooting is a problem.
Meanwhile the Tommy DeVito Experience is like a month-long Maurice N’Dour game.
Sue the Celtics next.
Yeah, I get the argument that it’s valuable to see that the Daboll and Schoen regime hasn’t lost all of its mojo, and that the Danny Dimes season last year wasn’t just a fluke. But man, this team needs more high end talent, and the best QB prospect they can find. And Tommy Cutlets is making that a lot harder. Unless he turns out to be Brock Purdy 2.0, this is short-term gain for more long-term pain.
While it’s bizarre and lends more credence to Strat’s spectrum theory, starting Sims does make sense within context.
The context, of course, is that the two people who share the court with Brunson, Barrett, and Randle are bystanders in a 3-on-5 offense, whereas the second unit is actually 5 guys playing basketball.
If you’re going to waste someone, waste Sims instead of iHart.
(Of course the optimal thing to do is create a coherent offense with your 5 best guys in the first unit, but that is seemingly off the table.)
I was shocked and devastated to see the result this morning, Alan. The weekend broke entirely in our favor. With a loss, we’d be tied for the 4th pick, one game out of the 2nd pick. Now we’re as low as 10th and one more win would probably put us out of the top 10 entirely. What a terrible, terrible result.
Think this Toronto team is much better than their actual record indicates and Massai knows it. This is why he’s probably hesitant to blow it all up. They’re losing tight games because they don’t have a closer. Major difference between the teams last night was that Knicks had Brunson and Hart in last five minutes and Toronto did not.
PJ Brown is stacking up DNPs Ty Lou decision higher than iHop. He’s playing a rookie instead of him. Feels personal. Price should be pretty cheap. Thoughts?
Couldn’t watch last night but Quentin Grimes turning into Nick Young is a plot twist I never saw coming.
Nice cap!
“PJ Brown is stacking up DNPs Ty Lou decision higher than iHop. He’s playing a rookie instead of him. Feels personal. Price should be pretty cheap. Thoughts?”
I have no thoughts on this because I literally cannot parse what is being asked or stated. PJ Brown? (Didn’t he used to play for the Heat?) Ty Lou? (Ty Lue?) iHop? *Who* is playing a rookie instead of *whom*? I have no idea who is being referenced here.
What I don’t understand is how much of that is the 3 players and how much is the coaching.
With Mitch, we sort of understand he’s limited on offense. He has to make his own offense with rebounds and pray they occasionally give him a lob. Posting up is practically a fantasy.
But we are seeing that Grimes and DDV can do more than they are getting opportunities to do with those 3. I have to think they’d all be more efficient if there was more ball and player movement and the usage was a bit more balanced. All that dribbling and ISO just can’t be optimal.
As Clyde always says, “Sharing is caring”.
Even more confusing when you find out Kobe is involved 😉
Sorry, meant PJ Tucker and Ty Lue who is actually playing Kobe Brown.
Best I can come up with is that he means PJ Tucker, who is nothing at all like PJ Brown. And Ty Lue (not “Ty Lou,” which is just silly) is not playing Tucker, but he is also not playing Kobe Brown over Tucker. First of all, Brown is a guard, while Tucker is listed as a power forward (I’d peg him as more of a small forward at this point in his career, but still…….he’s not a guard). And I wouldn’t say that playing Brown (for example, in last night’s game) 5 minutes can really be seen as playing him “over” Tucker. So I still have no thoughts on it.
And yet you had so many more thoughts on it than I…
Signing DDV, not resigning IQ, Grimes now moving to the bench and doing well, Thibs usually playing a 9 man rotation – this all does point to signs that IQ will get traded.
So my question for you all is this. What do you think would be fair compensation for IQ if we trade him and who do you think we could trade with? Side question – do we include Fournier to get rid of him or do we just trade IQ to squeeze maximum compensation.
Personally, I’d like to see a serviceable veteran come back who fills a need (back up PF?) and a first round pick.
My main thought after I figured out what was even meant was “why do we care if Kobe Brown is playing 5 minutes for the Clippers while PJ Tucker is not playing at all?” It might be different if we were thinking about acquiring Tucker and conjecturing as to whether or not he might be available since he is not playing.
In which case, acquiring Tucker might actually be a decent idea. Dude plays smart, plays great defense in spurts, can play multiple positions, and can hit 3s (43 percent last season and 48 percent the season before last). This season is kind of a wash because of his lack of consistent playing time. 43 percent for his long career.
Figured PJ Tucker as a savy champ and winner with dog type reputation is a perefct fit for Thibs backup PF spot and that most would welcome this addition, especially when the price is likely to be cheap. (i.e. one of the 1st that’s likely to convert to two 2nds).
Sorry. 37 percent on 3s over his long career, not 43 percent—still nice. My editing window closed. Yes, and he’s savy as well.
38 years old. Does he still have anything left in the tank? May be why he’s not seeing the floor. Probably comes cheap, though, and could be worth a flyer. What do the Clips still need?
Mary Norris suggests “savvy” 😉
I don’t know what the all time record is, but PJ Tucker has flirted with a negative usage at times. He’s had games where he plays 30 minutes with nothing to show for it. No points, no rebounds, no assists, no nothing except maybe a foul or two. He’d be perfect for Thib’s Invisible 5th Man role.
this all does point to signs that IQ will get traded.
I don’t necessarily think so. It does point to one (or two) of IQ, Grimes, RJ, DDV, or Hart being traded. Unlike last year when we were looking for a trade by shopping our own player (IQ), I think this year we are looking for a trade by identifying a target and then offering the other team their choice of the listed players and draft picks. But I do agree that if what I said is true, IQ would most likely be top of any list from the other team.
Yes, I know that there are two “v”s in “savvy,” although I don’t really particularly care what Mary Norris has to say on it. It was my way of poking a little fun.
Do we have any interest in Tucker? Give them Fournier and McBride and call it good.
I don’t think that anyone who attended Villanova is getting traded.
You trade Deuce “third in plus/minus last night” for Mr. Aged if Savy Zero and you’ll have to answer to me.
If we have to trade IQ because Rose didn’t prioritize him, or doesn’t think he’s a good player, well then that’s a pretty damning black mark against this FO. Quickley is the best young player we have by a wide margin, and is also the best two-way player we have.
Not liking where this is heading. If IQ is traded for some Rose/Thibs-style nut and bolt player, I’m fully out on this FO. The odds of IQ going somewhere else and turning into a 4 BPM starter seem very high.
“You trade Deuce “third in plus/minus last night” for Mr. Aged if Savy Zero and you’ll have to answer to me.”
LOL Shit, maybe they’d just do Fournier for Tucker straight up. Fournier is clearly the better player right now, but we’re clearly not going to play him.
By the way, is 40 points off the bench good?
Dude, it was 39.
Not very savy of you…
Pardon the interruption, but our own @Alan is too modest to reveal that his new book got a strong mention in the newspaper of record.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/arts/television/the-oc.html
Congrats!!
“Dude, it was 39. Not very savy of you…”
I’m writing about Bogdan. He got 40 in 36 minutes off the bench last night. DeRozan got 41, but of course not off the bench. No one got exactly 39 (Simons had 38) last night, so I’m not sure who you mean.
I think the FO knows IQ is good. But I think this is where future salary cap implications area coming into play and knowing that they can probably get some real future assets for him, they’re willing to dangle him for something good.
I honestly think they like Deuce and are saving him in case IQ does get traded. Deuce can fill in the back up PG spot well enough and does seem to be doing ok on offense with hitting 3’s at least. His defense is good enough he can help a bench unit hold a lead while Brunson rests.
I do think if Grimes shows out on the bench too, it makes trading IQ easier to do.
IT would suck cause I love IQ and I love the fact that we drafted him. But if we got back a first round pick AND a good player I would say that’s a pretty nice haul for him.
Its just too bad they gave RJ that contract last year.
Quickley is not getting traded at the deadline. We might not know the precise goal of the Rose regime, but taking an enormous step back right now does not align with any of the feasible ones.
I remain less outraged than others about IQ’s treatment here and I say that as an enormous fan. He plays a lot and will probably be paid a lot this offseason. It’s all good.
I’m also totally fine with Hartenstein continuing to come off the bench in Mitch’s absence. He played more than Sims last night anyway and his offensive skills would be more or less wasted in the starting lineup.
The more important question is the one being raised by Hubert and Strat, which is what exactly does it say that the starting 5 can’t seem to accommodate additional skilled players?
I honestly think it’s just a personnel issue and there’s not some ruthlessly democratic offensive scheme Thibs is leaving on the table. Using Brunson, Randle, and (to a much lesser extent) RJ’s gravity to draw defensive attention and proceed accordingly really probably is the best way for this specific group to generate points. It can get ugly, but it works.
To the extent I’d make a change, it’s the wholly unrealistic one I’ve been talking about for years: bringing RJ off the bench. I like the idea of spreading out our high-usage guys a bit and getting more shooting in the starting lineup. I’m not saying this to shit on the guy, I actually think it would benefit him. It’s not like even this year’s improved version is simply too good for this to even be considered. In fact, he’s pretty much been playing like an archetypal 6th man–high volume, below average efficiency scoring.
Not gonna happen though, so whatever.
I watched the Bulls play for the first time yesterday. Coby White looked like he’d taken the so-called leap. Then I looked at his season stats and, well, more like the leap of a guy who is nailed to the floor. But it’s something! (That puts him in the running for the Phony Improvement That Excites The Fan Base But Ultimately Ends In Disappointment award this year. Can he dethrone RJ??)
I’m with you. Thibs can pair IQ with anyone and get elite results.
Doogie, apologies, I thought you meant OUR bench.
So Bogdan scored one more point than the entire Knicks bench.
I mean, when you’re on one of the worst teams in the league, SOMEONE has to score some points.
Running the starting offense almost entirely through RJ/Randle/Brunson works really well, but it’s hard to believe that freeing Donte or Grimes for a couple open 3s or running a side PnR every night wouldn’t improve it.
Idk, maybe it saves energy for defense or something.
I don’t see IQ leaving for anything short of a star, certainly not for PJ. I think you keep him and figure out the financials in the offseason if it even becomes an issue.
Are you guys taking about Bogdan or Brogdon? I need Doogie to clear this all up once and for all.
Exactly this.
Iso->Drive->”Spray” cannot be all we do. And yet ….
It’s Bogdan (Atlanta), not Bojan (Detroit). Unless you think the Hawks are one of the worst teams in the league. 😛
Hahaha. I think Doogie would only be “invoked” if someone writes Bogdon or Brogdan. 😀
Life’s unfair. While i’m doing boring stuff* at a computer, Z-man is road trippin’.
* No, i’m not talking about commenting here! LOL
Or messes up papa Dragan and sister Bojana.
“Are you guys taking about Bogdan or Brogdon? I need Doogie to clear this all up once and for all.”
I’m writing about Bogdan, which is why I…….ummmmmmm…….wrote “Bogdan.” Brogdon didn’t even play last night, silly wabbit.
Toronto only has 2 players with an efg%+ over 100: OG & Poeltl. Unlike the Knicks, they also suck at most of the other Four Factors.
Siakam is playing pretty poorly, his OBPM has dropped to 0.8 from 3.3 last year. Siakam has been assisted on 51% of his 2FGs compared to 31% last and has the exact same TS% thanks to shooting only 21% from 3.
On the plus side, it’s Siakam’s 3rd consecutive year having the exact same .565 TS%. Some things are bigger than basketball.
Yeah, I would have thought Siakam and Randle were pretty equivalent, but maybe not so much anymore
Wow. Weird.
Draymond Green needs to be out of the league at least until the end of the year. This kind of violence is just too much.