[news.google.com] — Monday, April 10, 2023 5:34:00 AM
NBA announces time, date for Cavs-Knicks Game 1 in 2023 Playoffs Cleveland 19 News
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 10, 2023 4:52:40 AM
Indiana Hoosiers basketball: Knicks gush on former coach Mike Woodson IndyStar
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 10, 2023 4:42:47 AM
Knicks in the Driver Seat for Luka Doncic Blockbuster Amid Trade Request Rumblings Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 11:47:22 PM
Game 1 of Knicks-Cavaliers playoff series is set for April 15 Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 10:50:00 PM
Julius Randle making ‘steady’ progress’ with Knicks availability still in limbo New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 9:48:00 PM
Knicks locked in heading into 2023 NBA playoffs: ‘We’re not done yet’ Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 9:46:00 PM
With Mavericks dropping season finale to Spurs, Knicks likely will lose 2023 first round pick Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 7:08:00 PM
Knicks lose to Pacers with eyes on NBA playoffs: ‘We’re not done yet’ New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 7:07:00 PM
Date, time announced for Cavs’ Game 1 of first-round playoff series vs. the Knicks cleveland.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 4:13:06 PM
Cavaliers vs. Knicks schedule: Dates, start times, TV channel info for first round matchup in 2023 NBA playof? DraftKings Nation
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 3:16:15 PM
Cavs turn attention to first-round playoff series against Knicks The Athletic
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 1:05:00 PM
Knicks Sign Isaiah Roby To Multiyear Deal hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 12:26:30 PM
Mavs’ trade plans should 2023 pick not be sent to Knicks revealed ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 11:44:50 AM
2023 NBA All-Breakout Teams: Knicks’ Jalen Brunson, Lakers’ Austin Reaves among players making huge leaps CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 11:41:00 AM
Knicks give Isaiah Roby $400K for one day of work to have him for next season New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 10:26:31 AM
Knicks sign Isaiah Roby before 2023 NBA Playoffs ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 9:38:00 AM
Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks odds, picks and predictions USA TODAY Sportsbook WirePacers vs Knicks NBA Odds, Picks and Predictions Tonight CoversPacers vs. Knicks: Pacers rally for win in season’s final game IndyStar
[news.google.com] — Sunday, April 9, 2023 8:00:00 AM
1 Former Knicks player team will face in playoffs, 3 others New York could play Daily Knicks
83 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.04.10)”
Who cares about the Mavs pick? It’s playoffs time, baby! 🙂
Macri’s newsletter is all about the playoffs too, of course, but the bit i liked the most is this:
A higher than expected amount of tickets, even direct from the team, still available at least for the first home game. (*)
It’s playoff time. Let the real games begin.
(*) Oh, I see — the prices. Yeah, good luck with that, Knicks and ticket brokers.
I would care a lot more about the Mavs pick if a) I expected all along that it would convey as a lottery pick and b) it converted to two seconds now. It is still pretty much the asset I expected it to be, so whatever.
Obviously winning one of the first two is crucial. I’m not expecting Randle back for those games so it could be dicey.
I’m hopeful we can have a great series, and maybe even advance to the 2nd round, but what i fear the most is injuries. We have only 8 playoff rotation players. But RJ is a mistery, if he doesn’t bring his A game, we’ll be in trouble. If there’s one injury, we’ll be in trouble. We have 2 more players that might be able to be ok in the rotation if someone goes down, in Obi and Deuce, but i think both are a big liability in the playoffs, because of defense (Obi) and offense (Deuce). After this, Thibs tried to play Fournier and he was a disaster on the 4 games he played, not at all ready for the playoffs, Sims as Milo said is bad at C (what we need) and probably a little better at PF (what i hope we don’t need), and DRose doesn’t play since 2022.
you only really need 8… i know riley’s knicks… and mda’s suns ran super short rotations… like 6.. during playoff time… and there’s even more rest in between games these days esp in the first rd…
i don’t expect obi at all unless randle is out… and we shouldn’t be seeing deuce unless it’s a trae situation and we’re desperate to stop someone…
Sims was not great at center, but at least he got a lot of rebounds.
I think what will determine the series is how we fare against the Cavs full force defense and how Okoro, Mobley and Allen will affect the match-up. We know Donovan Mitchell will do his thing, he’ll give them 30-40 points on good efficiency every night, but that is beatable if our offense does well enough and we at least hang on with Mobley / Allen inside, so Mitch and IHart will be key players for the series.
I’m excited for the series, I think the Cavs are favorites and it’s likely that we end up losing, specially with Randle being less than 100%, but I will be happy enough if we take them to 6 or 7 tough games. Unlike out last foray into the playoffs we should have confidence that all the key pieces of this team are here to stay and that next season won’t be a disaster, so really all I want is a competitive series overall to build for the next couple of years.
I’m with you, Bruno. That’s all i want too.
I wonder if we’ll give McBride any minutes. Brunson is going to get toatsted to some degree in this series
Lol $369 for back-row nosebleeds
I’m good on that, brother
i think this is the worst matchup we could’ve asked for.. besides the bucks… anyone that has length at the 4 gives Randle problems… and Mobley has quickly become one of the league’s best defenders…. i think Randle even if he does play is going to be relegated to the 3pt line… the cavs also have a bunch of perimeter defenders to throw at Brunson while we don’t have too many answers for both Garland and Mitchell… and the cavs have one of the best point differential in the league so this goes beyond matchups and they are just really really good….
there’s a lot that needs to go right for us but even a difference of a few points per 100 can swing the other way on a couple week slump from the 3pt line from some key people… if Randle isn’t healthy that probably adds another couple points to that margin though…
I have a sneaky suspicion that Randle is more than fine and was only held out this long for precaution/give Obi and others some burn. Or maybe that’s just some swifty wishful thinking.
It’s hard to know how we match up. I mean, we did pretty well in the regular season against The Cavs but that doesn’t really mean anything.
Mitch/IHart’s interior defense and our rebounding I think will be key. Brunson will do his thing on offense. Of this I am almost 100 percent certain. The rest of hte team. Honestly, I don’t know. RJ is the obvious wildcard but IQ, Grimes, even Hart…all of these guys are relatively untested in the playoffs. Then, of course, there is Randle.
I do think overall we are a much better team than 2 years ago, so I don’t think we’ll roll over even if Cleveland is better than Atlanta. But I could see us playing well and still losing in 6. I just don’t want us to get embarrassed with a sweep or gentleman’s sweep.
The Cavs have to stop Brunson and IQ and they have maybe one good perimeter defender (LeVert). Rudio is not what he once was.
Mobley/Allen is going to be a huge problem if Randle can’t go or is hobbled. The rebounding drop off from him to Obi is enormous.
The same was said about us and the Hawks two years ago. So, no, I am not getting out over my skis about our chances in this series. Agree that if both Mobley and Allen are playing, Brunson will have difficulties, and RJ will almost certainly be Bad RJ. So it might have to be Julius and the bench mob that carries us to victory. Not impossible by any means, but tough.
The thing about the Mavs pick is that we don’t have a pick this year. Is that such a bad thing? The rotation is set for next year with the same 9 returning. We lose Rose. We probably trade Fournier.
In 2024-25 Josh Hart and Issaiah Hartenstein are UFA’s. Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Miles McBride are RFA’s. It’s a crappy draft and I can see Leon Rose resigning Hart, IHart and IQ. We probably get the Dallas pick then.
What are we going to do with a draft pick?
Small correction, Josh Hart has a player option for next year for $12.9M that you have to assume he’s opting out of.
To be fair, there is no “good” matchup in the East right now if you’re sitting 5-8.
No one wants 7 games against Giannis and his two Robins. No one wants 7 games against Embiid and his HOFer PG. No one wants 7 games against the depth of Boston and Cleveland.
The parity this year is striking. But I do agree that Cleveland is going to give some interior fits against the Knicks if Randle can’t come back and/or Mitch gets into foul trouble at any point.
I have no idea who’s going to make the Finals this year. So much parity in each conference.
“The thing about the Mavs pick is that we don’t have a pick this year. Is that such a bad thing? The rotation is set for next year with the same 9 returning. We lose Rose. We probably trade Fournier.
In 2024-25 Josh Hart and Issaiah Hartenstein are UFA’s. Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Miles McBride are RFA’s. It’s a crappy draft and I can see Leon Rose resigning Hart, IHart and IQ. We probably get the Dallas pick then.
What are we going to do with a draft pick?”
@ThisChicanerysays – You’re correct. I would add that I bet with the savings from DRose retiring and no 1st round pick that LRose will make Hart happy.
@Downtown Doogie Brown
He’s still only 22 and is signed on a huge long-term deal. That’s not happening. He has work to do but he hasn’t come close to his ceiling yet.
Another fun piece by Katz in The Athletic. He covers a range of topics, from Quentin’s three-point shooting to a stupid thing RJ does to lose us games that I wasn’t even tracking, to who takes technical free throws (it’s as idiotic as you think it is). Here’s a good quote on IQ:
‘New York’s defense finished the season exactly 12 points per 100 possessions better when Quickley was on the floor, according to Cleaning the Glass. That was the largest differential for any qualifying NBA player — by far. And look at the company behind him.
Second place (among players who ran for at least 1,500 minutes this season) was former NBA Defensive Player of the Year Draymond Green, who was more than two points per 100 behind Quickley. Third place was DPOY candidate Brook Lopez.’
The Cavs are going to get the most glowing writeup when I do the series preview. If there is such a thing as jinxes (there isn’t), they will be jinxed the fuck out of the building.
*** I have no idea who’s going to make the Finals this year. ***
When the dust settles it’s gonna be the Bucks and the Warriors.
“The Cavs have to stop Brunson and IQ and they have maybe one good perimeter defender (LeVert). Rudio is not what he once was.”
I think Okoro is supposed to be back for the series and he is their best perimeter defender.
The league is in a very good state going into the playoffs as it seems the era of super dominant teams have gone, I hope it stays like this.
It would be very funny if Brunson just torched Mitchell this series and ends up gatekeeping him from ever making the conference finals
The off season priority has to be to replace RJ in the starting lineup.
IMO, if we had a legitimate two-way plus player at SF we’d be 2nd or 3rd seed in the east.
If RJ improves his defense, shot, and decision making in the off season, that’s great. But I think the organization has been patient enough. We already have 2 players on the bench better than him. This was year 4 and again the progress was very limited. At some point you have to replace him in the starting lineup and allow him to develop from the bench. Ideally, we’ll add a starting player and not just shift the rotation.
“It would be very funny if Brunson just torched Mitchell this series and ends up gatekeeping him from ever making the conference finals”
Think the best case scenerio is they torture each other and it results in net neutral because you can bet Mitchel will go off with a double chip on his shoulder.
The difference is going to be the bench play and our bigs vs their bigs.
X factor for the Knicks is Grim3s getting hot. That game two X-factor we won vs Atlanta was Reggie Bullock.
The Cavs defense at 100% is going to make things very tough on us, but especially if Randle is not playing and someone else has to step up their usage. It could easily be RJ. That’s not what we want.
“IMO, if we had a legitimate two-way plus player at SF we’d be 2nd or 3rd seed in the east”
Facts!! – Been saying this since All Star break. If Leon just replaced RJ + picks with Mikal Bridges and Thibs with Ime Udoka, they’re a legit contender for next 3 years.
Given my choice of opponent I’d probably pick the Sixers and hope Embiid got hurt and Harden pulled a playoff Harden. But yeah Jowles is right it’s a pick your poison scenario. All the teams in front of us are better than us.
Of course the Wolves would have to implode right before they play the Lakers.
Man, the Celtics are so lucky that the Raptors couldn’t quite pass the Hawks. The Raptors are a particularly bad matchup for the Celtics. Then again, the Celtics have matchup problems with a lot of teams, really. They’re a weird good team.
I mean, if you added a “two-way plus player at SF” you’d basically be adding an All-Star, ya know? So yes, this team would be better if you added an all star level 3, but, well, what team wouldn’t be improved by adding an all star level 3 to it? I don’t think it says a whole lot.
“I mean, if you added a “two-way plus player at SF” you’d basically be adding an All-Star, ya know?”
I’m not even thinking all star. I’m thinking OB Anunoby or Mikal Bridges caliber. Guys like that are going to add wins to most teams, but we’d be going from a guy that’s a negative on both sides to someone that contributes positively on both sides. That could be quite a few wins. It’s probably close to the equivalent of going from Elfrid Payton or having no PG to Brunson.
Mikal Bridges is an all-star at this point.
Unless there’s been a lingering injury, I’m not sure we can say RJ has a high ceiling anymore. He looks completely devoid of athletic talent.
I know we’re talking playoffs but I gotta say. NBA should come down hard on Cuban. Of course I say this as a Knicks fan and honestly, if we don’t have a pick this year it’s probably fine because odds are with Luka we will get that pick next season.
But to me this is way more blatant and shady that tanking a season with young players because you’re developing for the future. EVeryone knows my stance on tanking. I kind of hate it and I also think it’s overrated as a building strategy. But I do not deny the reasoning behind why teams do it. I think it’s one thing to say we’re gonna suck to get high picks and play our young players bc we’re rebuilding vs. being a team that is competing for the play in and then tanks one game intentionally in order to get out of giving a pick to another team you included in a trade.
This has big ramifications for future trades. Teams now are going to be hesitant to agree to protections on picks bc they’ll worry about these types of shenanigans. I mean, what if next season this exact same scenario happens and Cuban does it again?
There is no real difference between the 10th and 11th pick. Dallas’ odds of getting the first or even top 4 pick are slim. They only did this to screw us over of a pick that was included in a trade. Brunson bad water aside, this is shady AF.
The fact that you can get a Haliburton at 10 or later suggests that it is never a good thing to have a draft pick in any given draft.
There’s no downside. You either trade the pick for something win-now, draft a player who becomes something useful, or pick someone who busts and is a minimal investment for the right to do so.
There is never a reason to not have the right to pick a young player on a 4-year, $15M deal. Hell, if the Warriors hadn’t wasted a #2 on James Wiseman, they could be sitting at 65 wins all over again.
So are we rooting for the Suns to wax the Clippers so it’s more likely they move PG 13 or Kawhi?
So are we rooting for the Suns to wax the Clippers so it’s more likely they move PG 13 or Kawhi?
Yes, rooting for Suns to sweep. Time for Clips to close out this failed experiment, reset and rebuild. Give them Fournier, Obi, Deuce + 3 1st and 2 seconds for a 33yr old Robin named PG-13.
Mikal Bridges when from 17.6 ppg before the all-star game to 26.3, with a .601 TS% on 30.5 USG (was .580 and 19.8).
He WAS Anunoby. Now he’s Devin Booker if Book was also a lock-down defender.
There’s an alternative universe out there somewhere where we somehow got him and I am a very happy man…
Yeah but my point jowles is if they didn’t owe us the pick they wouldn’t have tanked that game and that seems fundamentally different to me than tanking a season or even a post all star break trade off late season tank. If they didn’t owe us the pick they wouldn’t have done this bc the difference btwn 10 and 11 is nothing. And when it comes down to one game like that, blatantly tanking sets a really bad precedent. I mean it’s just too obvious.
And a play off team resting starters is also different. Yeah it hits the product of the late season game but it potentially saves or raises the playoff product. This is almost as bad as dudes being told to miss shots.
“There’s an alternative universe out there somewhere where we somehow got him and I am a very happy man…”
Hope Brooklyn does what best for their organuization and sells high for once but they haven’t shown ability to do that…
RJ + 2 Knicks 1st, 2 swaps + Dallas, Detroit and Milwakee picks.
Who would the league rather market? The OKC Thunder, who have a terrific player casual basketball viewers don’t know much or a team from a much bigger city with two global stars on it?
Teams have tanked to avoid giving away their pick for years. The Warriors did it to avoid giving away the pick that became Harrison Barnes. The Timberwolves did it in 2006 for this exact reason (it was a top 10 protected pick they didn’t want to give up). Hilariously, when the Timberwolves tanked in 2006, they were doing it against the Grizzlies, who wanted to lose the game themselves because they wanted the #6 seed (this was back when division winners had to be in the top three seeds and the #3 seed team was much worse than the #4 seed the Grizzlies would have to play if they were the #5 seed, which they be if they won the final game against Minnesota) so both teams rested all their good players and Mark Madsen conveniently started jacking up three pointers out of nowhere (hitting none of them).
If the NBA has a problem with the way that actual NBA rules affect actual NBA competition, maybe the NBA should fix the way the NBA rules affect NBA competition.
I mean, always relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLfAf8oHrMo
The big difference this time is not the sliminess of avoiding giving away a pick, but more so that the Mavericks said very vocally, “We’d rather the draft pick than the play-in,” the first clear repudiation of the play-in tournament since the NBA has implemented it. I imagine that, more than anything, will piss Silver off.
Not sure latent tanking is better than blatant tanking-I kind of hate both, but it’s business decision and ultimately a league issue. Contextually, not too concerned about the Dallas pathetic swoon-it smells bad and that will work in our favor in the future. As to the playoffs, my collective impression, based on the Knicks depth and their more than incremental improvement, gives me lots of confidence. Of course, this could be wholly unfounded and fan-based, but I’m very excited and sticking with the vibe (Pascal’s wager?). To me, the Knicks match up pretty well and as long as Randle can go, we have way more than a puncher’s chance. As to Randle, I think he is uber talented, and understands his role better and his injury may be a blessing in disguise as to his desire to dominate. Finally, I think Jowel’s parity observation is accurate and highly relevant. But I am into my second IPA, Sip of Sunshine, so who knows?
Types of tanking
1. Cleaning house of productive older veterans in the off season to accumulate younger players and picks and going into a season with a strategy of developing the young players and getting a good pick that year.
2. Being terrible early in the season, being close to eliminated from the playoffs around the trade deadline, and switching over to a development strategy and trying to get a good pick that might include trades of productive older players.
3. Being in a position to get into the playoffs going into the last few games of the season and tanking those last few must win games anyway to ensure you keep your pick.
The intention of the lottery is to help the weaker teams, but without purposeful losing.
In cases #1 and #2, the NBA has been trying to limit that, but it’s understandable as a development strategy and not just as an attempt to get a better pick. People hold their noses at gaming the system like that, but it’s tolerated until they can fix it further.
What Cuban did goes well beyond normal development/pick tanking. These were must win games for a team still in the hunt.
It’s smells to high heaven.
If teams can sit perfectly healthy starters and all star players to throw must win games, it opens all kinds of reputational problems for the league, especially when there’s legal gambling.
IMO, what Cuban did cannot and must not be allowed. I’m not smart enough to know what the punishment should be, but IMO this goes well beyond “tanking”. If it winds up being a monetary fine, it better be big enough to sting.
Part of my hope is that Dallas is so bad and so full of crap contracts that next year will result in a good pick anyways even if it’s 16 instead of 11.
I’m curious about how they do it. They potentially have about $30M in cap space though I doubt they opt to waive everyone.
I guess S&T Kyrie if he doesn’t stay and do the same with Christian Wood.
Atlanta & Chicago are also interesting cases.
I don’t know Strat, seems like all the strategies are per se manipulative to a greater or lesser extent depending on the particular circumstances. Anyhow, I agree with you that a system can be devised that promotes competition and, the tanking approach, particularly level 3, is shady.
I’m still hoping they get jumped by #11-14.
But yes, there is still a legit chance they suck next year, too. You’d think even a bad GM would be able to build a logical roster around two superstars, but who the heck knows with these guys?
Jowles they did try to fix tanking with the play in and now it’s presented a new set of problems. There isn’t a perfect solution. That doesn’t mean the NBA should tolerate blatant flaunting of the rules especially when it directly affects a game.
I think the Mavs tank job in that game has strong opinions on both sides. I listened to a bit of Bill Simmons discussing it with Ryan Roussillo. Simmons absolutely hated it. He was disgusted that Dallas had a real shot at making the playoffs and didn’t take it. He differentiated that from already being out of the playoffs and just having draft position to worry about. Roussillo on the other hand wasn’t bothered at all by Dallas’s behavior. He thinks tanking is rational behavior and isn’t offended that teams do it and didn’t think this case was anything special.
It will be interesting to see if the league does anything actually significant to Dallas.
I think Dallas is a fairly isolated event due to pick protection and not a referendum on the play-in.
The difference between Dallas & other tankers is that most tankers are okay with winning games, they’re just trying to lower the likelihood of winning. As a fan you can go to a game and watch your team compete. You’re not getting the same value but for a lot of casual fans it’ll be a fun experience nonetheless.
If you’re actively throwing a game and trying to lose at all costs? I wouldn’t be satisfied as a fan. You’re getting no value out of the experience. You’re witnessed and paid money for a sham.
A rational action doesn’t make it morally acceptable. Taking money to throw a game a la the Black Sox is rational, few would consider it moral.
Hollinger thinks the worst tanking historically involves pick protections instead of general lottery position. He has an interesting recommended solution.
And he points out there is more potential for this sort of shenanigans.
I like the idea of pick protection having to match lottery odds.
These quotes are from
I am a bit surprised that even from cold-hearted rationalist point of view Cuban et al. didn’t think being a low seeded playoff team was worth it.
I mean, as shitty as Dallas has been this year, in any given series they could easily have the best two performers (and would outright have the best two players in many). The West is a mess, they really thought it was that hopeless to go up against, say, the Grizzlies?
Having said that, I think I’m more aligned with the crowd that can’t get too worked up about this as long as the incentives are what they are. The outrage is that the NBA blatantly rewards losing in a *number* of contexts, not that teams act accordingly.
But hey, if Adam Silver wants to hand us Brice Sensabaugh to make an example out of them, he has my permission.
I truly don’t understand what “smells” about it. Without question, it’s better for the future of their team to hang onto a 9/10 pick (with a puncher’s chance of a top 3) than to make the playoffs with a 0% chance to win a championship. There’s simply no question about it. So why in the world would you NOT tank the games? A bunch of us here on KB suspected they were going to do that, and this here is the reason.
Basically, the same discussion we have all the time about the Knicks — who by the way are back to that 40-1 level to win the East. We’ll see what happens in the playoffs — I hope a lot of good things — but there’s still a very legitimate argument that the Knicks have gone about things the wrong way. Winning 47 games and being a decided first round underdog without a first round draft pick really isn’t something to shoot for and really isn’t that great an “accomplishment.” (I’m entirely open-minded about the situation if they show out in the playoffs — particularly if certain players show out — which again I hope they do.)
In terms of the fine, let’s say they get fined $2 million. Would you pay $2 million for their ping-pong ball situation? Of course you would.
There’s no serious possible deterrent.
Anyways, the more important tanking question will eventually be whether the Wizards decide to blow it up.
They seem committed to winning and supposedly want to re-sign Kuzma & Porzingis.
If they do blow it up we’re not getting that 1st.
The obvious fix is for the league to implement an “Isiah Rule”, which is the rule that says that all traded draft picks must be left unprotected.
Dallas didn’t choose to avoid the play-in/playoffs. When they tanked the game against the Bulls it was because OKC already had played and only had one last game to play, at that point Dallas thought OKC would win the game, so if they kept pushing for wins they’d be OUT OF THE PLAY-IN and with NO PICK. I’m not sure what people here would say about the FO if the Knicks kept trying to win and the result would be to miss the play-in and lose a pick in the process.
I think Dallas is being investigated not for tanking the last 2 games, there’s always teams doing it at the end of the season, but for the way they did it.
Let put aside the tank argument for a moment and focus on the game.
In any professional sport, expecially a sport where betting is allowed, the way Kidd coached the game would have triggered an investigation (hinting BEFORE THE GAME that you’ve been ordered to lose, benching you’re healthy superstar for no reason, subbing for every player who had an hot streak and when this wasn’t enough, playing lineups with 5 guards under 6’7″ so that the Bulls can get every rebound).
Because that’s exactly the way games are fixed (except for blatantly declaring it), points are shaved and so on.
Even recently in some european soccer leagues there have been team relegated and players disqualified (for life or years) for fixing games.
The same thing happened in tennis and it has nothing to do with “tanking”…
It would have been more honest if they had forfaited the game.
Funny thing, and very timely announcement from the NBA: tickets sales this year are the highest ever… 🙂
You bring a good topic, Max. Sports betting must hate tanking, right? Because there’s some teams that we know are going lose. Maybe that’ll be another incentive to solve the tanking problem.
I don’t know about sports betting hating tanking; it’s just another thing to bet on. If you looked at the betting lines for that day of games, they were completely out of whack with teams’ records, but they made more sense if you thought about which teams were resting who.
I hope Cuban and Kidd are found to have laid enormous bets against their own team. That would be tasty.
LOL Remember Pete Rose 🙂
Anyway that’s exactly why the League must stop reward losing…
I don’t care if they tried to fix tanking and failed. They are the ONLY ONES who can do it, so it is on THEM to fix it.
We cannot fix tanking by typing words on an internet forum.
The NBA is a billionaire’s cartel that can afford to pay the right people to fix their competitive problems.
They refuse to do so and are reaping what they’ve sown. Stop blaming Dallas for being rational actors. The NBA is to blame. They have insisted on archaic practices because they are too afraid to rock the boat.
Reaping what they’ve fuckin’ sown. Plain and simple.
I love how Stephen A is making it seem like it would be a catastrophe for the Knicks to get eliminated by Donovan Mitchell. How about Mitchell getting eliminated by the Knicks? If he’s so good what would it say that the team who didn’t trade for him beats the team that went all in for Mitchell?
I have to admit – this should be an interesting week of basketball…
in the east, I’m gonna guess the heat and raptors make it…
out west, the lakers and pelicans…
I’m with you, Jowles.
I can’t find the quote now, but someone up above said something about breaking the rules. I honestly don’t know, did the Mavs actually break any written rules? Of course they broke all kinds of unwritten rules, but that’s different. Curious if anyone knows.
“A rational action doesn’t make it morally acceptable.”
Yup. But this is capitalism. It’s about winning, and it has zero to do with morality. I work in the nonprofit world, where nobody makes shit and we all pat ourselves on the back for trying to do good because we don’t make shit. It feels stupid, especially because we still all stab each other in the back, but at least we can take scant solace in the fact that we’re only slightly evil, not entirely so. Cap is a zero sum game, at least the way it’s currently played. Doesn’t make it right. Is what it is; at least until Jowles takes over.
“…than to make the playoffs with a 0% chance to win a championship.”
Again, this is not about competition. This is about capitalism. Dolan didn’t really give a fuck that the Knicks were putting out a team of billy goats for years on end given that his team kept increasing by many millions a year in worth. It’d be much more interesting to do the math over what a team makes from some number of playoff games versus the likelihood of a mid-level pick paying off, monetarily.
“If you’re actively throwing a game and trying to lose at all costs? I wouldn’t be satisfied as a fan. ”
This. Not to mention the bettor problem. Both of which are more about embarrassment and looking bad than anything. Well, the latter of which could also get your hamstrings cut. At best.
well, there it is…
no doubt those folks making a living on the line know what a team, player are going to do – before they do…
if i were to be objective about our series with the cavs – i’d say cavs in 6…
thankfully, i’m just a fan – so, knicks in 6…
I think the hatred a lot of people have for Cuban and the Mavs is making this into a bigger deal than what it was (and you can count on me being on the haters list too for whatever is worth).
Just look at what Portland did, for example. They shut down their entire team a month before the season ended, blatantly tanking, yet no one really cared about it because the consensus was that they weren’t going anywhere anyway. Even the Pacers did it to a similar extent when they started falling behind in the standings. What made the Mavs case so shocking was the unique combination of a team with 2 superstars falling apart + Kidd’s insane comments + Mark Cuban being a very hateable dick.
I don’t care much about it either way because they did what they had to do under the rules. I’m much more in the camp that pick protections should be changed or the lottery needs changes again, because the league’s solution has merely shifted where tanking happens a couple of slots down the standings. I think the play in has been a successful experiment, but it hasn’t solved every issue.
I mean it’s not the end of the world or anything, it still seems like there should be some penalty depending on how much evidence there was that Dallas outright threw the game.
It’s an investigation and not yet a penalty. If Kidd hadn’t been so blatant about their intentions (his statements not the substitutions) then it might’ve blown over.
If you’re a smart gambler you’re probably happy because you took the Bulls +375 early in the day when the Mavs kept signaling they would throw the game. I need to start putting my money where my mouth is.
“Winning 47 games and being a decided first round underdog without a first round draft pick really isn’t something to shoot for and really isn’t that great an “accomplishment.” (I’m entirely open-minded about the situation if they show out in the playoffs — particularly if certain players show out — which again I hope they do.)”
I truly don’t understand what this means…at all. First, do you really think that the goal of this season was to win 47 games (or whatever it took to guarantee a playoff appearance and be a first round underdog…in a vacuum? Of course making the playoffs was a stated goal of the governor, and that can’t be ignored. But is that an endpoint, or just a base camp on the way to an ascent to try to reach the summit?
Like, for example, how do the Knicks compare with the 7 teams with better records than them in terms of ability to improve their current roster?
As to having no draft picks this year, it only means that they now have 4 protected picks likely to convey in the next 3 years, as well as all of their own picks past 2023, and the most favorable situation to sign Josh Hart to a long-term deal.
So the question is: is the 3 months plus playoffs worth of Josh Hart and pole position in signing him to a long-term deal worth the pick we gave up for him? While I think the answer is an unqualified YES, there is certainly room for disagreement. I feel that the massive impact in the present has significant curb appeal value…and the long-term impact in both perception and a reasonable risk/reward analysis of retaining a player that is far more likely to impact winning in the next 3 years than anyone drafted at whatever spot the Knicks’ pick would be at without Hart (I would guess high teens).
So in terms of how the playoffs play out, if we lose in the first round, it just confirms what most (including Leon) think….that there is still lots of work to do, but that the FO has the means to do the work. And if they win, the only significant gain is about curb appeal, which is going to be a big deal if multiple stars ask for trades.
I’m good with that.
Oh no! We might not have a draft pick this summer! The team can never improve now!!!!!
I wonder how many years we would have to draft at 14 to find a player with the impact Josh has had.
2022: Ochai Agbadji
2021: Moses Moody
2020: Aaron Nesmith
2019: Romeo Langford
2018: Michael Porter
2017: Bam Adebayo
2016: Denzel Valentine
2015: Cameron Payne
2014: TJ Warren
2013: Shabazz Muhammad
2012: John Henson
2011: Marcus Morris
2010: Patrick Patterson
So Owen, looks like 5-6 years is your answer…