[news.google.com] — Tuesday, April 4, 2023 2:09:04 AM
New York faces Indiana on 4-game win streak The Associated Press
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, April 4, 2023 2:05:39 AM
Knicks vs. Pacers – NBA Game Preview – April 5, 2023 ESPN
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, April 4, 2023 12:26:07 AM
Fresh Hart! Knicks’ Josh Hart Ready for Playoff Debut Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 11:08:00 PM
What Knicks must do to avoid complicated playoff tiebreaker with Nets New York Post
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 10:29:35 PM
New York Knicks are in the NBA playoffs ? and are far ahead of schedule The Athletic
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 9:10:00 PM
Lack of recognition for Jalen Brunson is disproving the New York Bump New York Post
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 8:29:31 PM
Four games left, an MVP and scoring title in the balance ? should Sixers push, rest or aim for balance? Liberty Ballers
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 8:11:49 PM
Wizards lose to the Knicks. Corey Kispert career high 29 points. Wiz … 12newsnow.com KBMT-KJAC
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 8:00:12 PM
Knicks giving fans reasons to be positive following news of Julius Randle’s injury Posting and ToastingJulius Randle’s playoff status in doubt after brutal Knicks injury update New York Post Knicks Notes: Randle, Barrett, Resting Players, Postseason, Brunson hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 7:44:00 PM
Quentin Grimes’ re-emergence paying off at perfect time as Knicks injuries mount New York Post
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 5:53:25 PM
Knicks may become the next loser of Kyrie Irving’s disastrous season New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 5:53:00 PM
Knicks may become the next loser of Kyrie Irving’s disastrous season Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 2:34:27 PM
The Knicks Have Found Their Missing Piece With Obi Toppin Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 1:58:59 PM
Knicks Owner Settles Lawsuits Related to MSG Sphere Front Office Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 1:49:45 PM
NBA Rumors: Knicks Land Wizards’ Deni Avdija In This Trade NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 12:57:32 PM
Knicks Clinching Scenarios: Which Playoff Seeds Are Up For Grabs? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 12:17:02 PM
Knicks, Tom Thibodeau quickly turn page from playoff berth with bigger goals in mind Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 12:04:04 PM
Sunday loss to Knicks eliminates Wizards from playoff race 106.7 The Fan
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 10:56:53 AM
Knicks big Obi Toppin takes hilarious shot at Taj Gibson after win … ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 10:20:14 AM
Mavericks: Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving might be benched to end season For The Win
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 9:52:21 AM
Tom Thibodeau after clinching playoff berth: “No tricks, no magic, no shortcuts to this” Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 9:41:36 AM
Knicks: Jalen Brunson’s message to New York after clinching playoff … ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Monday, April 3, 2023 8:00:00 AM
Knicks all-time starting 5: Players who never reached playoffs in NY Daily Knicks
84 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.04.04)”
We’ve made some comments on Obi, and playing time for him, Deuce and Fournier in the remaining 3 games, at the end of the last thread. So anyone interested just go there to read it. 🙂
For today, i’ll focus on the Dallas pick. OKC plays in San Francisco, so i hope it’s a loss and they’ll be 38-42. Then if Dallas wins tomorrow, when they host SAC, they’ll also be 38-42. OKC has the tiebreaker so then Dallas has to win the next 2 games, both at home against CHI and SAS, while hoping OKC loses one of the last 2 games, @UTA and vs MEM.
The other option is to tank these 3 games, but if the Jazz are smart they’ll also tank their games and Dallas will be 10th for the draft. That means only 3% to get Wembanyama, 13.9% to jump to Top4, and 23.7% to give a #11 pick to the Knicks. Will they risk it? I’m not so sure, but let’s wait for tonight’s OKC game and tomorrow’s Dallas game to know for sure.
The 3% Wembi odds alone make the mini-tank worth it given the way they are playing, their demeanour and their lack of assets.
We are always on a knife’s edge with Randle. His defense and drives to the basket have been much better this year, but he is always one bad sequence away from a meltdown. Obi is starting to regain his confidence and his points come in the flow of the game. Thibs is in a rough spot for the playoffs. If he pulls Julius too early because of shooting struggles, Randle’s fragility could sabotage the rest of the team. If he lets him keep shooting, Obi will have limited time and play tight.
No need to say sorry, I said that the games weren’t meaningful already! The only meaning is if I get my 49 win prediction, which isn’t, you know, actually meaningful.
I’m a little worried abut how Thibs is going to handle the Randle situation also. His typical method of bringing a player back from injury is to start with a reduced role and slowly up the minutes. I’m not sure Randle will accept that kind of thing. Second, it’s also not unusual (depending on the injury and length of absence) for it to take a few games for a player to get his wind and shooting touch all the way back. It’s not impossible that Thibs plays Randle 38 minutes and he bricks us out of 2-3 playoff games.
@cyber I know we are close to locking up the 5th seed, but I have been a Knick fan and a sports fan in general to take anything for granted. If they lose tomorrow things could get scary. Hopefully, Minnesota can beat Brooklyn and everything else becomes moot.
Plus when he comes back, he’s going to intentionally try to show that he’s the “leader of this team.” Which likely means excessive chucking, much of it ill-advised and/or untimely.
Dude’s a ticking time bomb. The mere fact that we’re having these conversations and these conversations make perfect sense is highly telling.
Wow, the Randle haters are coming out of the woodwork. Talk about kicking a dude when he’s down.
Obi scores 20 points and grabs one rebound against a non-playoff team missing it’s 3 best players and all of a sudden we can do without Randle. Randle literally scores 20 in his sleep while also grabbing 10 to 15 boards a game. All season teams have talked about how physical the Kniks are. Think they’re talking about Obi when they say that?
I’m glad E can predict the future.
E, Melo doesn’t play here anymore. Randle isn’t Melo.
I think there’s a good chance you’ll win the prediction, Brian. Indy probably wants to lose, because they’re tied with Orlando and Washington for 6th, and only 1 game behind Portland for 5th. That’s 2 wins out of the 3 remaining games. The problem is the Pelicans game, as they’ll probably be fighting for position in the play-in and might be a lot more hungry for the win than the Knicks. But as we never go down without a fight, maybe we’ll win that game too. 😉
Yes there is a legitimate question of the Randle/Obi minutes split and usage of Obi. But at this point getting Julius back up to 38minutes a game as quickly as possible (obviously protecting his health) is by far the best option, regardless of whether in the process of doing that Obi may be playing better and contributing more while Julius gets up to speed. We know what peak Julius is to this team and everything we do should aim to get peak Julius back asap.
The Obi debate is for after the season, not for the playoffs.
Plus when he comes back, he’s going to intentionally try to show that he’s the “leader of this team.” Which likely means excessive chucking, much of it ill-advised and/or untimely.
Sounds like you would advocate sitting him for the playoffs even if he did not get hurt. Like the thinking out of the box, E, like it a lot.
I don’t think there’ll be any kind of problem with Randle when he’s back. And as one of our two best players, the one’s that are the reason we’re back in the playoffs, of course he’ll play his usual minutes when he’s back. He has earned it for how he has played until now. He should only be eased into the rotation, if the doctors put him on a minutes restriction.
Not concerned about Randle’s attitude, as he has clearly been willing to defer to Brunson in crunch time, and to the team as a whole on nights when he clearly doesn’t have it. (Several of his recent meltdowns not coincidentally happened in games where Brunson was out with injury, and thus Julius was carrying too heavy a physical and mental load.)
Definitely concerned about conditioning, timing, etc., being off. There’s no real time or opportunity to ramp him up, as there would have been if the injury had happened even a week or two earlier. Whenever he’s cleared to play, they’re going to throw him right in there, unless the team is just playing out of its mind with Obi at the 4. I just hope Julius is quickly able to return to physical form.
Another thing that is important to us re: Dallas is that if we get their 10th pick, that is a big boost to our trade equity for the last piece we need. Right now, we have a bevy of protected picks–it’s pretty hard for another team to get excited about a haul of protected picks + RJ and Obi. Maybe the prospect of a genuine top 10 pick gets a team like Toronto or LAC over the hump in negotiations for a player like OG, or reduces the total asking price vis a vis our protected pick stash.
On the other hand, cashing out RJ, Obi, and a bunch of protected picks for OG and Brice Sensabaugh wouldn’t be bad either…
Do you guys even know if Randle is coming back? “Evaluated in two weeks” is as close to next season than it is to the first round.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I tend to think he’ll be back in the first round, but you’re right, I don’t know for sure.
we’ve had julius randle for 4 years…. we should all know by now he’s one of the most physically fit people on this planet let alone the league…. unless he went all shawn kemp and vin baker while he’s been out… we’re talking barely a month so if he’s healthy he will be physically ready….
whether he’ll be healthy or not is a big question though because missing that much time probably means its a high ankle sprain which can be problematic to come back from within a month…. i’m a bit pessimistic on that front but this team hasn’t really been all that transparent about anything so it could just be a regular ankle sprain too….
Randle is being “re-evaluated” basically when the playoffs start. I would be pleasantly surprised if he records a playoff minute, to be honest.
I say “pleasantly” despite being on the record as saying there’s some Ewing Theory potential because our ceiling is obviously higher with Randle. We’ve got a different look without him and can definitely win some games we might not have won with him, but we’re at a severe talent deficit in the playoffs without him.
The team with Randle playing well > the team without Randle > the team with Randle playing, but not well.
“Wow, the Randle haters are coming out of the woodwork. Talk about kicking a dude when he’s down.”
I don’t think it’s Randle hate so much as it is fear that his personality is somewhat similar to RJ’s in that he’s going to want to play ASAP, play as many minutes as possible ASAP, and is not going to show restraint if his shot is off. I’d obviously way rather have a healthy Randle than not have him, but I’m not necessarily looking forward to an 85%-90% Randle trying to take over games in ISO.
I think at this point we just have to accept who Julius is and roll with it. There’s no way we’re even near the 5th seed without the guy giving us 77 games at near 4 BPM, and Obi does not replace that production or anywhere near that, nor do the other possible incremental improvements across the roster by not having Randle in the lineup.
He’s a flawed player, we’ve seen that and we’ve known that pretty much since day one. But I’ll give him some leeway on this one because he truly had a very good season and he deserves the credit.
Whatever happens, it will be a decision for the offseason. He’s shown more balance this season and has talked about being more centered and in touch with his emotions, so I’ll trust this development until, and if, it’s proven to be false.
I really, really, really don’t believe in narratives such as “Julius Randle is only good every other season” (meaning we need to get rid of him ASAP prior to the disaster that will surely come next season) or “Harden always sucks in the playoffs” (but he’s done it pretty consistently), but that first one I mentioned is a little…….compelling? (And I *like* him!)
More than that, I’m trying not to be upset about the Dallas pick that almost certainly won’t be conveying to us this year (if ever), but it’s not working very well. How the hell did Kyrie Irving manage to fuck us over so badly without ever being on our team?
I’d love it if someone could convince me that the loss of the pick really isn’t that bad. But it seems kind of bad.
i go hot and cold on randle…the thing that I am not happy about is i wanted to see how he performed in the playoffs with no physical impairment to have a better view on long term viability if we are going to “contend”…now if he is subpar…the ankle will be the excuse…or at least a qualifier….and that might influence the front office in evaluating off season deals..
It is not ideal, for sure, that he is injured right now and could come back not 100 percent or after a few games.
Where it could potentially get crazy is if he’s out for some, most or all of round one and we win games without him only for us to lose when he comes back. Especially if Obi does well.
It’s possible the team felt confident they’d clinch a playoff spot and just decided to shut Randle down till the playoffs out of caution.
It’s also possible the injury is much worse and have little faith in his playoff return but said 2 weeks to keep Cleveland on their toes.
There’s too much we don’t know about the Randle situation.
The Mavs pick not conveying feels bad, but conveying this low would’ve been found money. We should get it next year, and with any luck it’ll be in the teens
“It’s possible the team felt confident they’d clinch a playoff spot and just decided to shut Randle down till the playoffs out of caution.”
Yeah, this is what I’m hoping is the case.
I hope to have an healthy Randle back soon, our ceiling is higher with him and he’s earned the right to be on stage for the main event of the season.
I don’t know if he will, sunday he was in a walking boot and the Knicks are tight-lipped about the real entity of the injury.
In the meantime it’s good to give Obi some reps, he might be useful as a “pace-changer” even with Randle ready to play.
Any other discussion regarding the future of this roster is chat material for the summer.
Is the Kyrie Trade one of the 5-worst all-time?
I’m the only one who thinks that sometimes his teammates try too much to alley-hoop him in transition or when he backdoors?
In the playoffs I’d rather have a 100% FG on fastbreak than an 80% FG with a couple of show-stopping dunks…
smdh let art be art
I’m not sure the Kyrie trade is the worst one this year. Minnesota traded for Rudy Gobert and gave up a rookie C who is having a better year than Rudy on top of four 1sts, Jarred Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley, etc
We need to at least see if Kyrie bolts first.
I am confused, that makes the trade better or worse?
“he was in a walking boot”
I read somewhere recently that you can’t necessarily read too much into players wearing walking boots anymore. Especially if they’re courtside with the teammates apparently now they will just wear them out of precaution in case a player flies into the bench during a game. So it’s necessarily because his injury is “bad.”
I mean, it probably isn’t worse than trading two unprotected firsts for Eddy Curry, trading Camby and a lottery pick for Antonio McDyess, or trading two firsts for Marbury. And that’s just 3 Knicks trades in the last 20 years. I’m pretty sure we can find two other ones.
I think Max meant trades involving healthy superstar players (multiple times All-NBA and All Star). Starbury qualifies for that, the others i don’t think so.
Before Kyrie’s first game, Dallas were 29-26. Now they’re 37-42. So the record with Kyrie is 8-16 (.333) !? 😮 Superstars usually bring more wins than this. This is close to a complete disaster. To make it complete they’ll make the play-in but not the playoffs, and by doing that they’ll send the 11th pick to the Knicks. 😀
Okay, let me rephrase it.
Is there ever been a deadline trade for a “superstar” (or even a “star”) with more sudden negative consequences for a team trying to go all-in?
Dallas was 29-26 (5th in the West) at the moment of the trade, the move was made to make them contenders, and despite an easy schedule is 8-16 since, in 11th place.
All for a player that is a free agent at the end of the season.
I’d really like to get their pick 🙂
For a change it’ll be nice to be part of a #lolTrade where the #lolTeam are not the Knicks! 😉
The Kyrie trade is hard to evaluate properly because he himself has not been the real issue with how badly they’ve been playing, he’s been fine for what was expected of him. The issue is just that the rest of the roster is absolutely dogshit and he does nothing to help those issues, he brings even more efficient shot making to a lineup that doesn’t need it and desperately needs defense and rebounding.
It’s really weird to say that a trade that got a team a guy who has around 5 BPM and is shooting a .632 ts% was so awful, but it was in the context of the Mavs roster construction.
I don’t think it’s close to the top 5 of worst trades because there’s a lot of recency bias on this take, but it really showed Nico Harrison has no clue how to build a proper NBA roster.
To be a little fair, Kyrie & Luka missed a combined 12 games since the trade.
Individually, both have played well when healthy, and the team has played like dogshit in games where both are healthy, but I do think that has limited their ability to generate any kind of offensive synergy from having two stars.
Its usually a multivariate analysis. Rarely one thing.
1) Dallas undervalued the immediate loss of value for Spencer and Dorian. They created another hole to an already super flawed roster this season.
2) Bullock is playing like crap.
3) Luka still resents Marc Cuban for not paying Jalen Brunson. He started eating again and is leaving ~15% of his max production unutilized and potential untapped.
4) Kyrie is an annoying knuckleahead who does not elevate his teamates. His priority is his bag and getting to LA.
5) The rest of reserves are just not good enough to be rotational players in this league.
6) Wood is David Lee. Puts up OK numbers but does not effect winning.
Can’t wait til ~ mid to late June when Luka demands a trade and tries to get to LA before Kyrie.
Did we talk about the Luka clip? The expression on his face when he talks about Jalen – just beautiful.
If Dallas loses Kyrie, then it would be an unforgivably bad trade. If they resign him, I think even a shitty GM would have them better next year. I don’t think them keeping their top ten pick is even all that important for them, as let’s say they lose it, then they can trade their 2025 and 2027 first round picks to reload. They’d rather have the Top 10 pick now, of course, but if they lose it, it’s not awful for them.
They just need an offseason to rearrange stuff…if they keep Kyrie, that is. If they lose him, then yeah, they’re a total trainwreck.
But yes, holy shit, did they do a terrible job. The Brunson thing was just shockingly pathetic by them.
It all started falling apart for Dallas when they traded for an extended Porzingis, then just dumped them for Dinwiddie and the corpse of Davis Bertans. Both trades were just awful, giving away picks for a player who had never shown he could stay healthy for an entire season, then dumping him again without recovering the assets they used to get him, and even worse, getting stranded with Bertans’ awful contract. And from then on it was baffling decision one after another, including the most unacceptable one which was letting Brunson go without getting any value at all from it.
The Kyrie trade was them overreacting to their own asset situation and forcing a high risk move for whoever star was available for their weak package of assets, and it was just the wrong move in many ways. It is just criminal asset mismanagement and terrible talent evaluation really.
Brian, if they lose the pick or not, they can still trade their 2025 and 2027 picks. I think keeping the pick is important to them, but tanking would be eating crow and very uncomfortable for them. It’s a fascinating will they or won’t they.
I agree with the takes on the failure of the Kyrie trade and the Brunson debacle. I have a particular dislike for Kyrie, which is somewhat personal and concededly not all rationally based, and I kind of hate Dallas teams. Nevertheless, there are many that pine for a star and most certainly Kyrie historically is one-so I sort of understand Dallas in this respect. While I understand, I don’t agree with the notion and perhaps this is more evidence that chasing stars, even generational ones (which I am not saying Kyrie is), may not be the most prudent approach and certainly not the most fulfilling from a fan perspective. Team game.
The analysis below shows the Mavs have to win two out of three to have any chance at all at the play-in. And even then, the Thunder have to go 1 and 2 for them to make the play-in. It’s not impossible, but the Mavs will have to beat one of Chicago and Sacramento along with taking care of San Antonio. Stranger things have happened, but it is certainly not a good time to be a Mavs fan.
Dallas didn’t make a a mistake bringing in KP. They got the best of that deal given what was known at that time. He was worth more on the open market. We used him in part to dump Lee and Hardaway.
In any event, they had the highest rated offense in NBA history at one point with Donic/KP and he gave them some paint protection they desperately needed.
The problems started right after that.
They traded Seth Curry (dumb) and turned KP into a gloried floor spacer for Doncic. They were using a max player in the role Seth Curry had for 8m because Josh Richardson wasn’t working.
That was the beginning of the end.
They weren’t using KP effectively (as we can see now by what’s he’s been doing for the Wizards ever since) and they were putting all the blame on him instead of addressing the real issues.
Then they traded KP for trash, lost Brunson for nothing, and traded for Kyrie even though he’s a bad fit next to Luka and they made a bad defense even worse.
None of this was hard to see. I’ve been saying this stuff all along here and on a Mavs board. Cuban is an idiot. Kidd is an idiot. Harrison is an idiot. Doncic is an immensely talented offensive player that is never in shape, never gets back on defense, and hasn’t figured out how to put his talent to full use yet.
If Kyrie walks the trade is really bad, but losing a 1st, a couple 2nds, Dinwiddie, & DFS isn’t exactly the end of the world either.
I assume Sacramento is going to rest most of their players, so that game could be very winnable for Dallas.
We can also root for the Bulls to play terribly down the stretch and Dallas to win their matchup. I don’t know where the tiebreaker stands other than the Bulls won the 1st game.
There wasn’t anything remotely off with bringing in Kristaps Porzingis when he was brought in.
I’m still kinda ok with my conclusion that Julius Randle is a bit of a loose cannon.
Oh yeah, I actually don’t think tiebreakers matter for draft order, only for playoffs/play-in.
So we don’t necessarily need Dallas to finish ahead of OKC, if they tie we need OKC to lose the play-in and DAL to lose the coinflip.
dallas didn’t really give up anything for Kyrie… they dumped the dinwiddie and dfs contracts and some second rd picks for a kyrie free roll…. and they probably will get something back in a sign and trade that will probably be a wash talent wise on what was outgoing….
the 2029 pick is something but kyrie staying or leaving wasn’t going to impact that pick either way….
the mavs probably would’ve been fine if they just kept KP… just goes to show that you really should just wait on talent if they are good and young enough….
and the idea of trading kp probably wasn’t all that bad an idea… but trading him for dinwiddie and scraps was a bad idea….
Mitchell has scored 40 or more for the 4th game in a row, gonna be a chore to try to keep him under control in the playoffs.
FIVE SEED LOCKED UP (I think…)
Yes, locked up. So only thing left to root for in regular season is Mavs making the play in.
I had to count our record against teams that would qualify for the playoffs just to make sure we would win that tiebreaker if we tied for record, H2H, division and conference, which would happen if we lost out and they won out. We really came on in the 2nd half of the season to lock that up!
ATL seems to be doing their part against CHI, although rooting for Trae is sickening….then hope that the Warriors put OKC away. Big game for both teams.
edit: Trae is out, but still…
Embiid may have just wrapped up the mvp.
I should also mention that we need to root for the Lakers to beat the Jazz, who are stubbornly trying to fuck things up even further for us (sorry CDig…)
I am forever impressed with marcus smart’s commitment to the green hair thing…
it doesn’t seem like embiid should have as good balance as he does…
Congrats to the Knicks on the #5 seed!
Utah is outright tanking so the Lakers better f@^#ing win
Luka Samanic (OAKAAK) is starting for the Jazz
Good W for the Sixers. Embiid’s accent is hard to place.
One crazy scenario would be for there to be a 3-way tie post play-in between DAL, OKC and CHI and the 10th seed to depend on a 3-way coin flip….is that even possible?
Pre-season at my most optimistic I don’t think I would have gone above the six seed for us.
Of course, Philly beating Boston kind of sews up the conference for the Bucks, who might rest the entire team vs. the Bulls tomorrow.
We’re not getting that pick, are we?
“Pre-season at my most optimistic I don’t think I would have gone above the six seed for us.”
The Nets would very likely have been ahead of us if they stayed together and Durant didn’t get hurt, so yeah. But aside from that, it seems like we reached our most optimistic outcome.
The Lakers really need to be up by more than 3 against a Jazz team without Clarkson, Markkanen, & Kessler
Geez, are the Lakers really going into OT with the Jazz G-League team?
Phew! Now, step up Dubs!
Almost double OT…. but they got it done
That’s what’s funny, because my most optimistic outcome was specifically “fluking into the fifth seed,” which is exactly what happened due to the weird Nets implosion. It’s a great result for the Knicks.
The Dubs play zero D.
Neither team is exactly putting on a defensive clinic tonight.
Yeah, but the defending champs? (npi)
That’s a good point. One team is the defending champs, the other fields 3 players who can’t legally drink.
OKC empties the bench. Tonight went about as well as possible.
“Tonight went about as well as possible.”
I know the draft pick drama is a big deal, but once the Nets lost I was happy. Now maybe I’m a couple more notches up and over on the Mood Meter chart, but DAL doesn’t seem the least bit interested in winning so this may all be moot.
One think that would be poetic justice is if we wind up getting the pick in part because of that excruciating blown game to DAL. That’s the only way I could get that fucking game out of my craw.
I love looking at it that way! Let’s hope that’s exactly what happens!
Logically they should lose out, but logically, they should have signed Jalen Brunson to an extension when he asked them to give him a below-market extension, so they don’t always do the logical thing.
Lol, that’d be too perfect.
Dallas should lose out but what the players want and what makes sense for the franchise doesn’t always line up. I think they want to win, they just can’t defend remotely well enough to do it.