From ESPN:
The Portland Trail Blazers are trading Josh Hart to the New York Knicks, sources told ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski on Wednesday night.
In return, New York is sending Cam Reddish and a protected future first-round pick to Portland, sources say.
The deal comes on the eve of the NBA trade deadline.
I love how Leon Rose keeps doing these, “Eh, whatever” trades.
This is only an “Eh, whatever” deal, though, if it involves one of the less-likely-to-convey picks, like the Wizards one. If it is one of the better ones, then I think this might tip into actively not a good deal.
But if it’s the Wizards pick, eh, whatever, it’s a fine enough trade. Not great, but not bad, either. Hart will at least play for the Knicks, which is something, right? But I doubt they re-sign him, right? So it’s not really much of a move either way.
But hey, at least it wasn’t a bad move!
Okay, the trade is actually the Knicks’ own first round pick this year, provided they make the playoffs. If they miss the playoffs, then they will instead trade four second round picks. Wow, I guess then that means they’re re-signing Josh Hart for next season, right? No way you trade a mid-first round pick for Hart to not re-sign him, right? But wouldn’t the Knicks just be able to use their MLE on Hart this offseason if they want him? I mean, I guess if you trade Grimes or IQ this offseason in another star trade, maybe it makes sense to have Hart to replace them? And then open the MLE up for somebody else? I dunno, man, this is a weird trade. And I like Josh Hart. I really do, but as a back of the rotation guy (while still a rotation guy). He’s just not much of a gamechanger in and of himself to trade a first round pick for him, so there has to be another side of this. There has to be. There has to be. Come on, there has to be.
Meanwhile, at least Jalen Brunson is very happy to be reunited with Josh Hart….
@jalenbrunson1 post jersey retirement ceremony finding out @joshhart was traded to the @nyknicks pic.twitter.com/bffT3HFzaA
— šNova Hoops (@capj1344) February 9, 2023
That’s pretty fucking adorable, right?
(And yes, the idea that they traded a slightly singed first round pick for Cam Reddish, only to have to add another first round pick to him to get Josh Hart is…not an impressive sounding series of transactions)
139 replies on “ESPN.com: Sources: Trail Blazers sending Josh Hart to Knicks for Cam Reddish, pick”
Now we have to deal with having two Harts on the team, as Katz pointed out.
Bullock 5-5 from three so far
Hart should free up Obi to run the floor more, so that’s a thing
I like Hart, heās a solid pro, but I donāt understand whose minutes he is going to be taking.
Two harts are better than one.
RJ seems like the top candidate. Which is awkward. Maybe Deuce now that he seems to be performing at a reasonable level. Maybe Grimes?
Donāt really get it either
Woj reporting it’s a 2023 lottery protected pick that turns into four 2nds if it doesn’t convey. I assume he’s talking about our own pick?
āFred Katz, beat writer covering the Knicks for The Athletic, says that Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk is the ancillary player balancing out the trade for salary purposes. Mykhailuk makes $2 million on a contract that expires at the end of the season.ā
Svi, we hardly knew ye
Hart is much better than Cam but I’m not sure he’s better than the guys he’ll be playing instead of, unless we’re sitting RJ down for 10-12 minutes a night.
Is there one single nba team that would be interested in trading for RJ?
If so, we should call them.
Brunson gets an old friend to pass to at leastā¦
Yahoo sports: āHart was warming up with Portland on Wedneday night, but left the floor just moments before their game against the Golden State Warriors. He was seen later at a local YMCA gym running to the corner over and over while learning the offense of his new team.ā
There is a video of Brunson’s reaction to finding out the Knicks got Josh Hart, he was pretty excited about it.
Any normal coach would use Hart to take some of the minutes load away from his starters to keep them fresh for the playoffs. But we all know that’s not happening. So I’m genuinely curious where he fits.
Small ball 4 that takes Obi’s 10 mpg?
This also means we’re out of the OG sweepstakes.
Svi gets to go look like a future assistant coach for a different team.
Will be interested to see how this shakes out
Sounds like we traded our protected pick which makes sense didnt expect the team to take two first rounders this year.
Our ā23 1st for a 3 month rental?
2.4 3pa/36 is worryingly low for Hart this year. Iād like him best if we were planning to play small some but I donāt see that happening. As a low upside upgrade on what weāre getting from McBride (or could have been getting from Reddish if our coach wasnāt the way he is) the cost seems pretty rich. Does anyone understand his contract?
āOur ā23 1st for a 3 month rental?ā
If Brunson likes him, Hart may be here to stay. Not saying thatās good. Just saying.
Everywhere Hart has gone he has earned a lot of minutes. Heās gonna play a lot for Thibs, that is a certainty.
Meantime, my Chicago friends are going into full angry meltdown.
ā according to Bleacher Reportās Chris Haynes. āThe Chicago Bulls are interested in signing Russell Westbrook should he secure a buyout with the Utah Jazz,ā
I figure Hart stays with the agent and Brunson connection.
Hart is a good trade, *if* we resign him (I think this presages a Fournier trade or something) and *if* itās a heavily protected first. So weāll see?
I could see Thibs going back to a 10 man rotation with Josh Hart now in the fold.
This is why I fucking hate the trade deadline. Relatively meaningless trade on paper that’s going to cause apoplexy. Either Hart sits, causing this site to blow up over petty accusations aimed at Thibs (perhaps rightfully so, but –) or he takes some of our kids’ time, just when all of them but Obi were getting semi-appropriate minutes and delivering — delivering wins, even. In a really fun way.
Unless Barrett’s getting moved, at least to long stretches on the bench, I’m really having trouble seeing this as anything but a bad idea. And I like Josh Hart.
Perhaps I’m a nattering nabob of negativity. I hope to be proven wrong.
I won’t touch whether we incinerated a pick for a short-term merc rental, as others here are way better at that particular complaint.
Not really knowing Hartās game, I see a very good vibe guy replacing a very bad vibe guy.
Weāll see about the minutes. Truth be told, no Knick player has complained about that this season, only us (+ Cam).
Does anyone understand his contract?
his contract essentially makes him a free agent. he has a player option he can exercise by june 24. but the option is fake bc the team then has 24 hrs to nonguarantee (waive) him. yes he could pick up the option and the team could guarantee it but that’s very similar to just signing him to a new one yr deal.
According to Woj, the draft compensation is a lottery protected 2023 first-round pick that turns into four future second-round picks if not conveyed this year.
I donāt really understand the move.
We are adding a rotation player that could potentially even start but not sending a rotation player out.
So whoās out?
If Hart starts instead of RJ, that would actually be a significant upgrade. I just donāt think thatās going to happen.
If Hart starts instead of Grimes, I donāt like it at all.
If Hart is coming off the bench, are we going to have a 10 man rotation again, is Deuce out, or is he going to take some minutes away from someone else? Who?
We so obviously need a 6ā7 or 6ā8 SF that can defend and shoot 3s or even a SF/PF type that can do the same. I donāt think we needed Hart. Itās an upgrade to the team since Cam was buried, but Iām not so sure about the thinking or price.
Why not just sign Hart in the off-season and hold onto the draft pick? Is there some sort of Bird Rights angle to this? Hart is not a bad player, but if this just a rental I donāt see why youād burn an asset.
Much rather trade Cam for Hart than Obi plus others to Utah for Vanderbilt and Beasley.
āWe so obviously need a 6ā7 or 6ā8 SF that can defend and shoot 3s or even a SF/PF type that can do the same.ā
*Saddiq Bey has joined the group chat*
Iām guessing they already know Hart is going to stay and even know what itās going to cost. Heās a Leon Rose connected guy.
The price seems steep with the 1st. I predict Thibs goes back to a 10 man rotation and Deuce gets a minutes reduction. Hopefully RJ too. No way RJ moves to the bench although that would be the most positive outcome.
As much as I love Deuce as far as maximizing wins and potential playoff hopes for this year I donāt mind that much if he sits a bit more. IQ and Deuce will get bench mins at the 1. Hart and IQ at the 2. Hart at the 3 then Obi and Big Hart.
This is very Leon Rose. The more I think about it the dumber it seems.
Thibs has to go back to a ten man rotation now. I do think Hart will close some games due to the fact that heās better able to deal with bigger threes than any of IQ, Grimes, or Barrett. I donāt know that he moves the needle enough to justify trading even a protected first.
At the very least Iām probably not going to be screaming āget the damn reboundā at the TV as much. That part of the deal seems consistent with Thibs desire to hit the boards hard.
josh hart’s ok.. and this draft doesn’t look all that great… but that’s a legit mid first for a… bench piece?
i guess this is another meaningless trade for a meaningless player for a meaningless draft pick so who cares… nothing to see here….
Josh Green is developing into quite a solid role player for the Mavs. Heās very efficient and defends.
Josh Hart is one of the best rebounding 2 guards ever. Heās up there with Fat Lever and Harden on a per/game basis.
I guess Leon already knows thereās not going to be anyone worth drafting.
and to kind of drive home how bad this is… what exactly is hart going to do in these 3 months that’s worth more than the pick would’ve done replacing any of these worthless bench guys in the rotation? replacing derrick rose? mcbride? ihart? sims? cam?
and even if you like hart.. which i do.. why couldn’t we just wait till the offseason to sign him.. and he probably doesn’t even go for more than the mle…. what’s the urgency with trading a mid first for him?
if you’re trading a mid first for hart… why wouldn’t you go multiple firsts for OG who will actually start for you?
Dave Gettelman did something like this once (when he gave up a valuable pick to get a āfree lookā at Leonard Williams).
Generally speaking, itās not a good sign when you can say that.
That it is the Knicks’ own pick is not good. That is a bad, bad idea. I mean, whatever, it’s not the worst move ever, but it sure ain’t a good move.
So now if we win the play-in game, we lose our draft pick. Thanks a lot, asshole. Took away the one fun thing we had to look forward to. Christ almighty.
Nice job negotiating them down to 4 second round picks if it doesnāt convert, though. Prior Knicks regimes would have offered 7.
Post updated in response to the news that they’re dealing their own first for Hart. I used the rare “Fingers crossed appeal to authority” argument. š
I havenāt really digested this trade yet, but Iām really unhappy about the first rounder. I just to donāt see how Hart fills a need that is worth that pick.
The only thing I got is that the idea is that now you can trade Grimes in a star trade, while still keeping the MLE open for somebody else this offseason after you’ve dealt Grimes in a star trade. Not saying that makes it any better, but that’s the logic I’ve parsed out of it.
We’re gonna need a contortionist to make this one look good…
i mean…don’t teams that actually believe they have a chance to win it all do rental deals…we just did one to guarantee we lose our pick?
And now we have another stupid trade for Z-Man to never stop defending as long as he draws breath.
I think there just has to be more to this than this before Thursday, like a deal involving Grimes. Because, yeah, this is a very illogical move if this is all they do.
Via Robert Randolph
ā RJ could be moved 4 deals being discussedā¦ stay tunedā
He hasnāt been right about anything so far, but we can hope.
I think we should probably put the ārentalā narrative to bed. Like I said before, Hart is a Leon Rose connected guy. They already know heās staying in NY and probably even know the price.
ok…hold the phone…if this is the dominoe that gets barrett out of town…then all bets are off…
I think if it was just the Washington pick, a rental would be possible, but yes, once they dealt their own first, they obviously intend to keep him.
An RJ trade would also make this make more sense. I doubt it happens, but yes, that would definitely make this make a lot more sense (not necessarily make it a good move, but at least make some more sense).
I was happy when I saw we traded Reddish for Hart because I really like him as a player, he’s a hustler, very good rebounder, can play some defense and occasionally hit 3s, he’s definitely a nice piece to have… but the news that it is our own first rounder have soured me a lot on this.
I just can’t understand why would you not keep the pick and then even if you don’t want anyone available in the range, use it on a draft day trade or something like that. It’s just so confusing why they keep burning assets for no apparent reason to make marginal moves. I sincerely hope there’s another move coming and this was the preparation for it.
***I sincerely hope thereās another move coming and this was the preparation for it.***
Why would you need to prepare for a trade tomorrow by sending out a draft pick today?
āWeāre gonna need a contortionist to make this one look goodā¦ā
*7 million traded player exemption enters the chat*
Brunsonās reaction to teammate Josh Hart coming to NY
https://twitter.com/Capj1344/status/1623518897931538433
Yeah, I had that in the post. It’s fucking adorable.
If they do have an RJ trade, it makes some sense to have Josh Hart locked in first.
But I worry that there is no other move coming.
again… there is no rental…. the ‘rental’ is spending a mid first rd pick for a guy you could use any number of ways to just sign outright for nothing in the offseason…..
what on earth is the rationale that we can’t wait 3 whole months to get him for the MLE… what exactly is the urgency that you need to give up a mid first to have him right now?
i mean do you really need a hate boner to not see how terrible this is? how many picks need to evaporate for people to wake up?
Toronto hasnāt done anything yet. I saw a report that said Masai was going to wait until the very end to decide whether heās going to be a buyer or seller. So maybe OGA is not totally out of the question with RJ part of the deal. I havenāt heard of anyone else that might be available at SF that they might be interested in that fills a need where RJ could be part of it.
A 1st for Josh Hart makes sense. A 1st for Josh Hart to play for the Knicks to finish 6th doesn’t make sense.
My guess is they want to make the playoffs this year and Hart helps them do that. It’s a business, and making the playoffs makes them money.
I’d give him Deuce’s minutes for this year.
āMLEā
I donāt understand his contract well enough or whatās been promised behind the scenes, but thereās no way they would get him for the MLE and they donāt have cap space.
espn trade grade
New York Knicks: B-
With coach Tom Thibodeau deciding he has no interest in playing Reddish (who hadn’t seen action since Dec. 3) and little more in playing Evan Fournier (who’s played in three games since Jan. 9), the Knicks’ wing rotation was troublingly thin behind starters RJ Barrett and Quentin Grimes and reserve Immanuel Quickley.
Enter Hart, whose appeal to Thibodeau is obvious. Few players in the NBA get more out of their talent than Hart, whose hustle, stamina and strength allow him to play up defensively. At 6-foot-5, he’s started all season for Portland at small forward while occasionally logging minutes at the 4. From that standpoint, Thibodeau is sure to value his contributions more than he has Fournier and Reddish.
That size and strength could be particularly useful to New York’s second units, which tend to get troublingly small. Instead of Fournier, Thibodeau has taken to using the 6-foot-3 Quickley and the 6-foot-2 Miles McBride together off the bench. Barring another move before the deadline, this trade probably signals that more of Quickley’s minutes will come at point guard with McBride out of the rotation.
In particular, Hart’s superior rebounding for his size — his 8.8 rebounds per 36 minutes were second on the Blazers behind starting center Jusuf Nurkic — could help address a weakness for the Knicks. They’re 21st overall in defensive rebound rate at 71% after finishing fourth a year ago and drop further to 68% with Grimes on the bench.
That said, if Hart is simply wing depth, potentially giving up a first-round pick for an impending free agent would be a lot. In order to make cutting into the minutes of (presumably) Grimes and Quickley make sense, Hart will have to be more dangerous shooting the ball than he had been with the Blazers.
Hart’s reluctance to shoot 3s this season has been surprising. Although Hart has never been a particularly accurate long-range shooter (35% career), he attempted at least 3.9 per game starting in 2018-19, his second NBA campaign. During 13 games in Portland after last year’s deadline trade from the New Orleans Pelicans, that shot up to 6.4 a night.
Unexpectedly, Hart’s 3-point attempts have dropped to a career-low 2.2 per game this season. His decline of 1.9 attempts per 36 minutes is sixth-largest among players who have played at least 1,000 minutes each of the last two years.
At some point, that lack of confidence started translating into worse results. After hitting 35% of his 3s through the end of December, Hart is 11-of-47 (23%) since. Both the recent accuracy and his reticence to fire from 3 have caused defenses to pay Hart less attention on the perimeter, with that lack of gravity gumming things up a bit more for the Blazers’ attack.
The contract Hart signed with New Orleans as a restricted free agent in the 2020 offseason contains an unusual final season. If Hart exercises a $13.0 million player option, his salary is non-guaranteed through June 25 per ESPN’s Bobby Marks. That seems to all but assure Hart will test free agency.
Assuming the Knicks decline Derrick Rose’s $15.6 million team option, they’ll be somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 million below the luxury-tax line, plenty of room to re-sign Hart this summer — though perhaps at the expense of utilizing the non-taxpayer midlevel exception.
The structure of the first-round pick New York sent out in the trade protects the team from giving up a lottery pick. If the Knicks miss the playoffs this year, they’ll send four second-round picks to the Blazers instead. Before the trade, FiveThirtyEight’s model gave New York a 68% chance of reaching the playoffs and sending away the pick, while ESPN’s Basketball Power Index had the Knicks in the playoffs 84% of the time. After incorporating the trade, BPI simulations boosted New York’s playoff odds to 94%.
Via Shams
āThe San Antonio Spurs are trading Jakob Poeltl to the Toronto Raptors, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.ā
Weāll see what he gave up, but it looks like Masai is going to be a buyer.
Via Woj
āThe Toronto Raptors are acquiring San Antonio Spurs center Jakob Poeltl for Khem Birch, a protected 2024 first-round draft pick and two future second-round picks, sources tell ESPN.ā
Looks like it was Poeltl for Khem, Birch, a 2024 protected 1st and two 2nds.
He’s also a rental, so Hart at least makes more sense for us.
Shams
Well this trade had better be part of some genius master plan that spins RJ into All-NBA gold (it’s not) because in isolation it is fucking terrible.
None of the good GMs ever make a move like this as a .500 team. They understand that draft assets are the most liquid currency in the NBA, and the best way to acquire players that bend the win curve. Josh Hart is a nice role player but he isn’t that.
Incinerated small edges like this accumulate to keep us mediocre.
not a slow deadline
wow..kd…booker..paul…ayton…that is some squad…
The first stage of reacting to a Leon Rose trade is the āwait, what?ā stage, in which we try to figure out why he has made the trade. This is quickly followed by the āI hope he didnāt give up a first rounderā stage.
Weāre currently at the āmaybe thereās another move coming that will make this trade make senseā stage, also known as the bargaining stage. This is usually followed by the rationalization stage, which consists of things like āitās a weak draftā and āthe Knicks canāt use that many roster spots on first round picks.ā Finally, there is the acceptance stage. āIt wasnāt a crippling move anyway.ā
Leon definitely has a style, Iāll give him that.
The Nets getting blown up at the trade deadline warms the cockles of my cold heart.
Knicks should now be able to finish fifth or sixth. It’s something!
Marginally improves our Dallas pick too
Good call.
Poetl really fits the Raptors like a fucking glove, doesn’t he?
VanVleet
OG/Trent Jr.
Barnes/Trent Jr.
Siakam
Poetl
Could be intriguing. They’re 4 1/2 games back of the #6 seed themselves.
And if we (rightly, I would say) assume that the Nets will be falling out of the playoff mix, that opens up a spot for the Raptors even if they can’t pass both the Knicks and Heat. A lot of it turns on whether you think the Raptors are better than they have looked this year so far (and more specifically, is Barnes batter than he has looked?).
I think the Nets are getting way too much shit for how Harden/Kyrie/Durant crashed and burned. So much of it was that they couldn’t control Kyrie, who is a clear nutjob. Harden was going to leave for nothing. Kyrie was going to refuse to play and then leave for nothing. Durant, well, the Durant return was fine, really, once it was clear the other two were gone. It was the other two that caused the crash and burn, and I don’t think that the Nets could reasonably have assumed Kyrie would have burned things to the ground the way that he did. He came to them!
Was Isiah behind this?
(Hard to take the denials seriously when 4 unprotected 1st rounders are traded away 18 hrs later)
Ha! I think just being friends with Isiah is enough to make one hate first round picks.
Josh Hart is a fine player and i dont think the price is steep if we are going to keep him. Do you know if we can negotiate an extension if he picks up his option? That would make it easy to pay him without the trouble of the cap.
Yes, the Knicks can give him an extension if he opts into his player option and the Knicks accept his opt-in.
I like Hart as a player. I like making Brunson happy. I think jHart is a better fit with the starters than RJ, especially while Mitch is out. Itās on Thibs to go with what works rotation wise.
With the Nets blowing it up, I think itās a good bet this team can make some noise, especially once Mitch comes back. The league has so much parity right now, and the Knicks have done well in a tough East. I get that with the bench playing well itās hard to see where the minutes come from. But a week or so ago we didnāt have that problem. Players are going to cool off and others will heat up, and the minutes should sort themselves out accordingly. Having another capable defender with length is a good problem.
And thereās still time to the deadlineā¦
i think we all need to come to terms with the fact that the knicks’ front office do not see value in any pick between 10 and 25…there it is…
I loved Blake Griffin talking shit about Doc. Doc really is not a good in-game coach at all. Dude is so reliant on his assistants, and that’s not a bad thing, per se, when it’s working, but holy shit, dude, when he doesn’t have top assistants like his situation in Philly, he is a mess in-game. Look at how poorly he adjusted to the Knicks game. It really feels like the Sixers only have one speed – “Us being better than you, so we win.” If anything challenges them, they fall apart. They really should bring in a new coach for next season.
so, RJ should fetch us some kind of 1st round pick right…guys a 20 point per night bucket getter…
I like the Nets much better long-term now. You have Cam and Mikal as your swingmen. Obviously they like their center, who can still open up his game some. They got Cam J too. They have a ton of draft picks now.
The question is: can Simmons still play point or do they need a new PG?
They can still get some stuff for Royce and Dinwiddie and still have a pretty strong bench after that. Frankly, they are in a good place.
āKyrie Irving on Kevin Durant trade to Phoenix: ‘I’m just glad he got out of there’ā
Jesus, what an unbelievable prick.
I dunno, I mean, fuck Kyrie in general, but if he hated it there, and apparently he did, I don’t think that’s unreasonable thing to say. Everything else about Kyrie is unreasonable, but I don’t think that specific thing is.
I dunno, I sadly think “Durant and spare parts” would probably still be a better team than whatever the Nets end up with by the end of Durant’s contract. However, if it’s simply a question of, “Considering that they were fucked as a true contender by Kyrie being Kyrie, are they set up okay?” and in that sense, I think they totally are set up pretty well, considering how badly they were fucked by Kyrie. I agree that I would look to flip both of the Dallas guys, Seth Curry and Royce O’Neale. Maybe Cam Johnson, too.
Build around Bridges, Cam Thomas, Simmons and Claxton (Simmons only included because they’re stuck with him no matter what, so might as well try to build around him).
Man, the Nets really do have a lot of good trade assets if they really want to blow things up.
Simmons has to be able to play the point again, though, of course.
Wow!
I wasn’t expecting such a wall of bad vibes… š
My considerations in random order:
– I really like Josh Hart. Not a star but a solid two-way all-around player, beloved everywhere he has been. I don’t think Thibs will send him to Siberia, he’s his kind of guy.
– I suppose this is like the Brunson deal: they know J-Hart will opt-in or re-sign/sign an extension, because of his strong friendship with JB (see video) and solid ties with Leon Rose. He’ll fit into D-Rose’s cap space when they’ll decline his option in the coming offseason.
– I don’t like (to be polite) this FO’s attitude toward first round picks but I’m not surprised, given that attitude, they gave away a non-lottery pick to get a player they like, it fits their profile perfectly.
– We can get back to a 10-men rotation***, with some players losing playing time. We can stay with a 9-men rotation, with someone earning a flat in our siberian condo (I wouldn’t be happy with that). Or, from another perspective, we can lower the burden on some players (JB, RJ) to keep’em fresh for the postseason. Nah, I was joking, Thibs’ still our coach š
– Toronto looks like a buyer, so maybe OG is out of the market, but after the tsunami that hit the League in the last few days, can we be involved in another trade? Can we use a combination of RJ/Obi/Fournier plus Dallas’ pick to get a bigger fish?
*** Deuce, IQ, J-Hart, Obi, I-Hart isn’t a bad Bench Mob to have for the final stretch run of the regular season…
Okay, well that at least makes some sense, maybe they got word from Hart that he’d be willing to opt-in, and they’re planning on keeping him here long term. If it turns out that Hart is here beyond this season, I’m on board with this trade, because he’s a useful player.
I didn’t know Cam Johnson was an RFA. Okay, so the Nets probably keep him, too. He’s tradeable later.
Well, no wonder. He has Adam Sandler on his coaching staff now, even after Sandler couldn’t deliver Bo Cruz to the team.
I donāt think itās fair at all for Kyrie to demand full control of the Nets, plan their course of action, and then say āwow, that place was messed up.ā
That place was ALL HIM! He hired Nash, demanded they get Harden who hated working with him etc etc.
The Nets are a perfectly cromulent group, they just should never have ceded control to the any single player much less a crazy one.
I think itās pretty clear Barrett will have to accept a sixth man role or else be traded. Thibs will LOVE Hart, who is the heady player RJ can never be.
Heās not ideal as a SF, but I predict Hart starts there going forward unless the Knicks pull another trade that forces him to SG or even a backup role.
Kyrie sucks, but obviously his position is that it was all so bad because they didn’t support him enough. You and I both think that’s wrong, of course, but he clearly believes it, so I think it is fair enough for him to voice his displeasure with them over it. I mean, who forces himself off of a team and then says nice things about the place he forced himself outta, ya know?
He’s making $12.9 million. The MLE is $11.4 (plus raises), so I don’t think the MLE would be an unreasonable expectation for Hart. And, of course, they could use the MLE and then also use the pick on a rotation player. They keep drafting rotation guys with late first round picks and then, when they need more rotation guys, they…trade away their first round pick for two years in a row (and trade away their highest first round pick for three years in a row).
Can we stop the daily bot just for today?
I think that, barring another Knicks’ trade, the conversation will revolve around J-Hart and such…
Guess we also have 2 open roster spots now. Anyone come to mind?
Rokas room exception Vildoza-type deal time?
I think there’s a decent chance there are more deals to come today.
I don’t mind the bot coming along, as I’ll just make a trade deadline thread later in the day anyways.
Iām not going to defend anything Kyrie did. But if you choose to get into bed with him, you have to stand by him. Thatās just how it is with crazy people. You donāt have to throw Ronald Dalton Jr appreciation night; just donāt publicly oppose and belittle him. Heās crazy, but heās the crazy person you chose to marry.
But things really fell apart because of his insane reaction to a global pandemic. I don’t think it’s fair to expect the Nets to have predicted that, ya know?
How are you Knicks fans. Itās been a while I posted here but been monitoring Knicks ever since Penny days.
Anyway I think itās an OK trade. I think it is fair if thereās no first rounder but wonder why needs need to give a first. Would rather trade for OG for 1 more player and pick if possible.
Itās an OK trade because Hart is a solid rotation player (I just added him in fantasy before the trade) and we lost a player who will never play anyway. They said heās not a good defender but I hope he is. Heās a good shooter and rebounder yes he only 6ā4 but heās the definition of a wing player we exactly lacking. Could take McBride and founier minutes. Hope we can make one more trade. Trade founier and maybe McBride or Obi for the right price. We need one more rotational big or a young big.
Regarding picks, we donāt use it anyway. So yeah itās a ln ok trade
On the vaccine shit, all you have to do is issue a statement supporting Kyrieās right to make an individual choice and let him play in road games (which they eventually did when they got desperate, completely undermining their moral position anyway). And since youāre backing this nut, youāre going to have to counter his position by constantly promoting the efficacy of vaccines. You could even hire nurses to set up shop and give shots at games.
That would have been really easy and very effective!!
Instead Tsai publicly opposed him and suspended him from playing on the road. This is the same little shit who (unsurprisingly) stood up China after the Morey tweet. Maybe this guy is just a craven little crowd pleaser, I donāt know. But these ācrisesā could have been handled much better.
I like this Hart trade a lot. Well, except being our first round pick for next summer, but hey Leon wouldn’t be selecting 2 new players, he’s past that stage and so having one pick (from Dallas) is enough. Hart is even more hustle than Grimes, so E is going to love him. LOL. I think he’ll take a few minutes from everybody and we’ll get back to a more sane 10 man rotation again. Bench: Quick, Deuce, Hart, Obi… wow, we have a problem here, maybe STEIN will do the trick? š
Brunson’s reaction is very cool, and that adds to the trade. Hart will be useful and if it makes Brunson even happier, it’s great.
Well, a lot happened after I went to sleep.
I still dont like trading a mid first for all the reasons discussed. But I am looking forward to watching Jart.
Cam Thomas is going to lead the NBA in scoring this season. Or we are going to see how elastic Mikalās scoring ability is.
Another first down the drain for yet another one of Thibs’s low-ceiling pluggers. (*)
Let’s please not hear anymore about all the “extra” 1s Leon is accumulating. I wasn’t alone, but repeated several times the obvious fact that they were just going to piss them away just as they’ve pissed away multiple 1s already.
In terms of the ethics of it all, clearly the best thing for the team would be to miss the playoffs and keep their 1, which would also have the extra benefit of getting Thibs finally sent packing. Tactically, I don’t know how you do that — it’s hard to affirmatively root for the team to lose and I won’t do it — but there would be a number of not just silver, but gold-plated linings, if they were somehow to miss the playoffs.
They’re never, ever winning anything with Thibs here. He just wants to play 44 or 46-win basketball with his guys and *much* prefers that to having to manage and deal with players who aren’t his guys. That’s where he is in his career and life. The evidence was already crystal clear and now it’s completely impossible to seriously gainsay.
(*) Who’s shooting 30% from downtown on a paltry number of attempts. So instead of opening up the lane more, as they obviously should do, the Knicks traded a 1 for a guy who makes the lane even *more* of a mosh pit.
Exactly what i thought too. Westbrook dumped for a low cost, KD to Suns and Poeltl to the Raps. I have to go read all this stuff, work be damned. š
I like how after we incinerated the 19th pick, people said “it’s not technically an incineration because it still has some value”, and then Leon spent the next 18 months determined to make sure nothing of value remained.
The fact that we had to use our own first probably indicates that no one values the picks he’s acquired as real firsts.
As a percentage of overall FGA, Josh Hart’s 3PA have declined from a peak of 665 three years ago, to 561, 374, and this year to 309.
Seventy-one percent of his threes this year have been “wide open.” He’s shooting 32.5% on those attempts. Another 23.2% of his attempts have been “open.” He’s shooting 26.9% on those.
ā44 or 46-win basketballā
E, you arenāt wrong in many ways, but after being the laughingstock of the league for literally decades, becoming a steady #6 seed in the East for 4 of 5 years would really be a nice blessing for once.
No drama. No bullshit. Just some pretty good, hardworking guys.
And obviously thatās enough for Dolan, who just wants some (any) playoff revenue.
Yeah, as I noted when we were debating what firsts would be included in a theoretical OG trade, I noted that it was very apparent from the fact that none of the acquired picks were part of the Knicks’ last/best offer for Spida that pretty clearly those picks are not particularly valued by the rest of the league.
Yeah Iām sure thibs hates winning 60 games and taking the bulls to the ECF and never wants to go back there again.
I love our strategy. Let other GMās star chase and throw away all their picks for one year windows. Weāre building the 2004 pistons over here.
Good morning .We interrupt your incineration argument to bring you the Brooklyn Nets.
Apparently Obi has a lot of value around the league rn, who knew? (me of course.)
So an RJ+ Obi + picks package really is somethingā¦ may it gets you OG in a three-teamer or something like that. Maybe someone better? Iāll be making some popcorn in a bit.
But seriously, can anyone remember a team showing interest in RJ? Maybe Utah?
Any defense of the position the Nets find themselves in today vs where they were even 2 months ago is pure hogwash. I donāt see why they would not continue to tear down. You cannot build around Cam, Mikal, DFS and Claxton. Thatās a poor manās purgatory.
I could be talked out of Rip Hamilton, but each of ’04 Sheed, Chauncey Billups, and Ben Wallace were better than the Knicks’ best player. And if we want to get into fifth option glue defender guys, Tayshaun Prince is arguably the best one to ever touch sneaker to association floor.
Other than that, yeah, the similarities with the ’04 Pistons are overwhelming.
Knicks get:
Anonuby
Hield
Pacers get:
Toppin
Fournier
Flynn
Raptors get:
Barrett
2 unprotected nyk firsts
2 protected firsts
Who says no?
Rasheed Wallace avg BPM w Det during their heyday was just over 2. Half Randle this year.
Chauncey averaged 4.8 which is a little better than Randle and Brunson but not much.
Wallace averaged about a 4 BPM to Mitchās 2.6. So there is some daylight there but not massive.
The comparison between that Detroit team and this yearās Knicks team is actually quite appropriate.
Thanks for making me look it up, E, to counter your point.
The Nets have the defensive pieces to go pretty far. They just need an efficient 75 from Cam Thomas every night.
Ess, would you do that trade if you had to include IQ or Grimes. Need to do that anyway to free up time for Hield
I am going to be interested to see how the Nets do. Itās an interesting grab bag of odds and ends. I donāt think they will be uncompetitive. They wonāt be good but if Simmons can reclaim some semblance of his former self they wonāt be terrible.
Simmons hasnāt been some semblance of his former self in 2 years. That guy is gone. Nets should be in full reset.
What would we give up for Bridges? Is he better than OG?
Nets are in a weird place where they don’t own the rights to any of their own picks. So it’s not crazy for them to try and compete with what they have, or at least cling to several valuable pieces.
I agree, but the issue for them is that they can probably avoid the lottery while dealing a bunch of guys for future assets, since they have a real glut of the precise types of players good teams are dying for, they have 3&D (or at least 3) guys up the wazoo as well as shot creators, so they could easily flip Dinwiddie, DFS and Seth Curry without really missing them because of Bridges, Johnson and Thomas.
I am still digesting the trade. One tidbit I learned is that part of Portlandās motivation for trading Hart probably is that they didnāt think they could pay him and keep him for next year because of tax considerations. They need to pay Jeremiah Grant also and are too close to the tax line. A few months ago at least they were thinking he would deserve a raise from his current salary too, making things worse for them. See
https://www.blazersedge.com/2022/11/16/23463387/jerami-grant-josh-hart-contract-portland-trail-blazers-salary-cap-2022-2023-2024-options-free-agents
Going by salary expectations as a judge of quality it seems we traded three players for one significantly better player. That is kind of what you want to do when making trades. Itās just is it worth a first round pick? I guess time will tell. We will get a chance to see what Josh Hart can do and this may change our minds about losing the pick.
Maybe the Nets can go after Westbrook once he gets a buyout? Did you know heās 6th in the league in assists despite not starting? Thatās nuts.
It wwonāt happen, but Obi + Quick + a first for Mikal sorta makes sense for both teams.
I think you can add Joe Harris to the list of players to flip. And they should get something for Crowder too.
It’s just weird, at least in the moment. In a vacuum, great trade, I’m going to love watching Josh Hart play for the Knicks.
On paper, it’s nonsensical. The one thing we didn’t need is another 6’3″-5″ guard. He’s Grimes but can’t shoot as well, he’s IQ but can’t shoot as well, and he’s Barrett but more efficient (yay!) but with way less usage (that’s 10 ppg difference…).
What we needed was (is) a long, 6’7-8″ disruptive wing who can shoot the three well and handle tall mo-fos on D.
Fingers crossed we have another trade to go, and that it won’t involve Grimes or IQ…
***How are you Knicks fans***
A perfectly pleasant greeting from the Philippines becomes the existential question that has plagued our lives since childhood when it is missing the appropriate comma.
I think now they have to move one of OG and Trent Jr, because Siakam will be back at his former position (PF) and one of those two will be out of the starting lineup.