[news.google.com] — Tuesday, January 3, 2023 6:35:52 AM
Suns vs. Knicks – NBA Box Score – January 2, 2023 ESPN
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, January 3, 2023 2:10:38 AM
Spurs vs. Knicks – NBA Game Preview – January 4, 2023 ESPN
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, January 3, 2023 12:41:00 AM
Knicks’ Jalen Brunson more than worth huge contract, tampering punishment New York Post Jalen Brunson’s return, Julius Randle spark Knicks to rout of Suns New York Post Suns coach Monty Williams praises Knicks: “Just a typical Thibs team” Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 11:43:44 PM
Mitchell scores 71 points, Cavaliers top Bulls 145-134 in OT Bally Sports
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The San Antonio Spurs Couldn’t Defend the Brooklyn Nets, Lose 139-103 Project Spurs
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 10:03:50 PM
Giants back in the playoffs after 6-year wait; Knicks roll past Suns News 12 Bronx
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 8:37:25 PM
Knicks 102, Suns 83: “Great hustle Randle fantastic” Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 7:03:30 PM
Julius Randle’s bounce-back season reaches new high with MVP chants at Madison Square Garden CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 6:30:03 PM
Phoenix Suns vs New York Knicks Jan 2, 2023 Game – Scores, Stats … NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 6:18:56 PM
NBA Analyst Believes Knicks Could Make Blockbuster Trade For LeBron James Using RJ Barrett And Picks Yardbarker
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 6:17:08 PM
Knicks’ Julius Randle receives MVP chants from MSG crowd Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 6:07:00 PM
Knicks Dim Suns in Shutdown Defensive Effort Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 6:06:41 PM
Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson: Double-double performance in win CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 5:40:00 PM
Jalen Brunson Returns To Knicks’ Lineup For First Time Since Christmas RealGM.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 5:30:18 PM
N.Y. Knicks 102, Phoenix 83 New Haven Register
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 5:21:32 PM
N.Y. Knicks 102, Phoenix 83 SFGATE
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 5:17:22 PM
Suns Stumble in Horrid 102-83 Loss to Knicks Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 5:10:00 PM
Suns JAM Session Podcast: Suns (20-18) @ Knicks Post Game Pod Bright Side Of The Sun
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 3:48:54 PM
Former Knicks Guard Carmelo Anthony’s Ex-Wife La La Anthony, Who Accused him of Cheating, Allegedly Did it First With Brooklyn Rapper The Sportsrush
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 1:50:22 PM
Jalen Brunson returning to Knicks vs. Suns ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 1:00:00 PM
Video: The Knick of Time’s Lee Escobedo on Knicks’ priorities for 2023 New York Post
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 12:36:39 PM
Should the Knicks trade for Tobias Harris ahead of deadline? Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 12:02:22 PM
Fantasy Basketball Pickups: Grab this Knicks player off the waiver wire Quick-ley Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 11:00:35 AM
Knicks vs. Suns: How to watch, schedule, live stream info, game time, TV channel CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 10:19:44 AM
New York Knicks Stax | Agate | normantranscript.com Norman Transcript
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 10:09:34 AM
New York Knicks “Rigged” The Draft for Michael Jordan’s Best Friend, Patrick Ewing and Still Failed to Win The Sportsrush
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 9:48:00 AM
Five NBA players poised to break out in 2023, including Knicks’ Quentin Grimes and Thunder’s Jalen Williams CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 8:00:00 AM
Gameday: Suns Get Crucial Reinforcements vs. Knicks Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 8:00:00 AM
3 players Knicks should be scouting for 2023 NBA Draft Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Monday, January 2, 2023 7:57:00 AM
Malik Beasley Could Juice the Knicks’ Bench The Knicks Wall
109 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.01.03)”
I weirdly have nothing to say about the game- I’m still shocked. Not that we won, but that the Suns(who have been slowly sliding backwards) played so bad. Yes, our defense was very tight- so maybe they would have looked that bad regardless. But I’m wondering how much the 3pm start time threw the Suns off. I’m shocked because normally it’s the Knicks who are thrown off by that start time.
Definitely glad to see Brunson back and steadying the offense. And big thanks to Randle for keeping the offense afloat while JB was out. I hope that hip issue is truly behind him. He played big minutes yesterday, so we will see how his body responds tomorrow. Also, we have a MUCH better offense when Quickley is right. I love that Quickley and Brunson are building chemistry with Rose as the sage PG telling them what he sees. Unfortunately though- all those PG vibes haven’t yet rubbed off on Deuce yet. I still love his defensive intensity though.
Saw the NFL news. Pulling for that guy. I have crept into watching more football but the game always snaps you out of complacency.
Julius Randle on Mitch.
https://twitter.com/krispursiainen/status/1610044180121718784?s=46&t
Maybe he is more mature? Maybe getting his bag left him less peeved?
I’d like to say he is exactly the same guy he has always been, that’s kind of my thing. But I think Mitch’s defense has been much better this year. He’s found a little bit of balance on that end, reining in his aggression and block hunting, which is making a huge difference. Having Grimes out there to keep the opposing team’s best player from constantly attacking the rim might be a factor also.
I’ve been way wrong about this before, but I think the Knicks are going to have a pretty active trade deadline this year.
It feels like they’d rather trade Obi and Quick than have to give them 2nd contracts, so Leon will likely move them for draft capital and/or to clear cap space.
They could even make “the big move” if it presents itself. Butler, Anunoby, DeRozan, Beal, or KAT could all be made available, and you know Dolan craves that playoff money more than anything else. Plus, it seems clear that the Knicks won’t want to make all their draft picks this year.
Everything will be oriented around getting back draft capital to flip for a veteran star because this is Thibs we are talking about. People seem to think Leon is being patient, but I’m guessing he wants that star now… like by this trade deadline.
I went over to the toxic Elon Musk disinformation site and the first post I saw on the NFL thing was someone implying that the cardiac event was from his vaccination
We’re all fucked
Butler – no thanks.
DeRozan – no thanks.
Beal – no thanks.
KAT – no thanks.
OG – maybe for the right price.
I don’t know. I just don’t think we should make a big move right now. Our team is trending up, got lots of young players, etc. Randle, Brunson are playing great. Even the bumpy 5 game losing streak…we basically could have won every single won of those games if we’d managed things a little better and had a little more luck.
I do think moving Cam and Obi makes sense. Would suck to admit we messed up the lottery pick but if we can get a first rounder back and another potential rotation player, it makes sense. And Cam we don’t need either. I guess the haters would point to us trading them and say we fucked up the pick and trading for Cam but that’s just how it goes sometimes.
I would be REALLY sad if we traded IQ. He’s been fantastic this season.
I think the play right now is to remain as we are, make some small moves at the trade deadline and then see if down the road we can swing for Zion or Booker or Shai (or Jokic or Giannis LOL).
Like if Randle keeps this up all season and next, he’s going to be a great centerpiece for a superstar trade. RJ if he keeps moving up will be a good get too. One of those guys will probably have to go eventually and I’d prefer it be Randle because of his age but there’s no rush to make a move like that. Trading for Beal or Lavine or some other pseudo over paid star or aging all-star seems really dumb.
Much of the press says the Knicks strategy is to acquire enough assets to trade for a super star; and those who disagree with that mostly think we should be tanking hard enough and long enough that we eventually hit it rich in the draft. But I’ve said a number of times that our actual strategy seems to be “develop the kids”. Nobody liked it whoever I wrote it because they think you never get a great team that way — and, anyway, our kids are who they are and will never be much better and certainly never become big stars. But lo and behold it’s actually delivered a fun team to watch that is actually competitive. And the kids are actually getting better. I don’t think this strategy is finished delivering good things either. (Although we should actually try and pick more than just a Trevor Keels in each draft)
The IQ rumors were before the win streak. I’m hoping those have flipped now that the Knicks are winning games and he’s a big part of the rotation.
Definitely think Cam is on the block and one of Obi and Hartenstein, I’m guessing it’s Obi.
How active we are will depend on how we play up to the deadline. We could easily fall off or take a leap forward.
Thank you, Jowles, was waiting on you. Never disappointed.
To flip the Marc Antony quote (…author so noted…), I come to praise Randle, not bury him. Didn’t see every minute of the game yesterday, but saw at least 3/4 and not one single “NOOoooo…” play. That may be a first in his time with the Knicks. Really smart passing for assists instead of driving into traffic and throwing something to the perimeter where someone has to heave a shot before time runs out. Taking shots in rhythm. One turnover that I don’t remember seeing.
Okay, he did end a quarter with an ill-planned drive into traffic and a pass to the perimeter for a heave as time ran out, but at least he didn’t force his own shot as per every other end-of-quarter play. So that’s an improvement?
It’s nice to start the year with a win and now we can take revenge on the Spurs.
Having Brunson back is a very good thing, Randle continued his good streak and everything went well.
I don’t know what this game really means for our future projections because the Suns are freefalling (we have the same record!), Booker was missing and Paul looks cooked, but when we move the ball (and the players) we can be really good.
We’re in a good position in the standings, I expect an easy win against the Spurs and then in Toronto, maybe with RJ back, a “real” test.
Can we stop Siakam this time?
Let’s see.
P.S.
Crowder’s situation is really strange.
Mitch has absolutely leveled up this year. It’s obvious from watching the games and the numbers reflect it. He’s up to 5th in BPM among centers, only trailing perennial all-NBA candidates. He’s also 5th in ESPN’s RPM (and 1st in DRPM…), 8th in 538’s RAPTOR, and is in the 97th percentile among all players in raw +/-.
Keeping that guy was a major hinge point for us in a good way. A lot of us felt like there was more to unlock there and the early returns on that are promising. I shudder to think where we’d be trotting out Hartenstein every night.
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I see 2 new patrons today, but we’re only 6 in total, so please support Mike and KB. At least he shouldn’t have to pay for KB to exist.
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Boy, the one guy on that list other than Anunoby that makes me dreamy is Jimmy Butler. Slot him into the RJ role and we would be a very very tough out.
Anyone here want Jimmy Buckets or am I alone on Jimmy Island?
ps: he’s sporting close to a career high 7.5 BPM this season. That’s contender level superstar stuff.
Knicks News Bot tried to bury the lead by making us scroll through pages of fake trade proposals, but the truth is out. We can now close the book on that mysterious chapter in Knick history as to whether Carmelo cheated on La La or if La La was the cheater all along. Phew.
+1 to cyber. $5 or so a month to keep the lights on here is a bargain if you can swing it.
It would be insane to trade Quickley right now. He’s turning his season around more quickly (lol) than he did last season and has looked much more comfortable as of late. Without RJ *and* Brunson we were obviously starved for usage soakers…but I must confess I didn’t hate the look of things with Brunson back and IQ/Grimes picking up the leftover RJ usage. Something to think about!
Also, anyone who isn’t giving Randle his flowers for his work this season isn’t being honest. 20th in the whole damn NBA in BPM, and maybe more importantly 13th in VORP (same stat, but the counting as opposed version)–it’s actually quite valuable that the man does not miss games.
I’m of course worried this won’t last, but I’m cautiously optimistic that everything he’s doing is *mostly* sustainable, at least when we’re fully healthy. He is shooting very well from the midrange again and that could regress, but he’s traded almost all of the long midrange garbage for 3PA that he’s hitting at a reasonable rate.
The regression will probably come from floater range/the short-mid area (48% according to CTG, 52% according to BRef) but he’s always been strong from there so it won’t be swift.
The Knicks are not a contender and thus no one should be considered untouchable, but I’m ready to retire the idea that we should be *actively looking* to move Randle. He’s playing like someone very hard to acquire in general, and nearly impossible to acquire for ~$25M AAV.
***am I alone on Jimmy Island?***
Jimmy Butler continues to progress along his never cresting growth curve. He will reach peak LeBron level sometime in his early forties and by 2038 he should have a BPM north of 15.
Walker et al, I don’t necessarily disagree with you… I’m just stating what I think Dolan/Leon want and want asap: more star power and playoff wins.
I mean, it’s pretty obvious we don’t have that end-of-game option like Luka or DeRozan, as we keep losing to those guys.
I’m also pretty sure at this point that the FO likes Randle and wants him to be part of the future—just as a 2nd option not the primary one.
I personally would rather go even younger and start guys like Obi/Quickley, but I just see them going in the opposite direction, aside from Grimes who Thibs worships.
I wonder if the Hart/Sims combination is what is making Obi considered expendable. Sims is a better rebounder and more versatile and better defender. So unless you think Obi is going to improve in those areas and also get consistent from outside, it starts to make more sense to try to recover a 1st rounder than pay him.
“Much of the press says the Knicks strategy is to acquire enough assets to trade for a super star; and those who disagree with that mostly think we should be tanking hard enough and long enough that we eventually hit it rich in the draft. But I’ve said a number of times that our actual strategy seems to be “develop the kids”.
The Knicks are looking to trade for a star, and they should be. The team is pretty decent and fun right now, but any bookie in the world would let you name your odds on the Knicks making the finals. We’re not a contender and we’ll have to make a series of moves to change that.
I’m more optimistic than I was prior to the season that one major move could be enough, provided of course that it’s the right move. Swapping out RJ and the motherlode of picks for a truly elite player would make us a very good team, and I don’t buy into any armchair psychoanalysis of Randle indicating this would somehow cause him to have a mental breakdown.
I’m still cautious about Randle, but it sure seems like it was the newborn derailing his play last season, and not the empty arenas helping him the season before. If this is sustainable, and with Brunson finally allowing us to have good play from the PG spot, i agree with you that trading RJ for a 2-way superstar is the move to make. Grimes and Mitch are strong as the 4th and 5th starters.
Can that 2-way superstar be Jimmy? Thibs would be ecstatic with the move. 😉 And Miami could re-tool around RJ, Herro and Bam. But how many good seasons Jimmy still has in the tank, it’s the million dollar question.
I can’t believe we are going to jettison IQ for cap reasons. It’s so silly. What will he cost? I know what Evan is costing if it happens.
TNFH – I am surprised Mitch’s BPM is up so much. His numbers look identical. It’s turnovers and league environment changes basically? I am obviously a card carrying member of his fan club so am gratified yet puzzled by improvements.
Ideally the guy we trade for would be younger than Jimmy, and a better shooter too, but our chosen strategy has us picking among the guys teams are trying to trade. That means in some way or another our target is nearly certain to be less than ideal.
Butler fits us pretty cleanly and is one of the most consistently great players in the league. I’d hold out for an age-related discount of some sort, but would very much want us to engage if he were being shopped.
Alas, I genuinely don’t think the Heat are engaging in a rebuild with Pat Riley at the helm. For better or worse they’re gonna keep going at it until he retires or dies.
“I’m still cautious about Randle”
So am I.
From the start I said he was a very good player “skill wise”. I never bought into the “no fans” narrative. I thought last year was mostly a function of having no playmaking PG and him being forced into doing too much every game every night. I thought the Atlanta series was just the Hawks loading up on him and him not knowing how to handle it. Then of course last year he melted down under the pressure from media and fans. I was expecting a good bounce back year with the addition of Brunson. But he still has too many low basketball IQ moments for my liking, especially under extreme pressure. And I still don’t think he’s an ideal fit with Mitch. I’d rather have a better defender and more consistent outside shooter. But I’m softening a little in that area because he’s outplaying my bounce back expectation.
I love Butler. But I think he’s too old and injury prone at this point. Plus, I doubt he’d be available for a price that makes any sense.
When it comes to trades and free agents you can’t trap yourself into only thinking about players you think might be available. You never know who is unhappy behind the scenes and which teams are going disappoint so badly they decide to blow it up and start over. You have to be somewhat patient and realize that ideal #1 may not be available this year or even next year. So you just keep developing what you have, maximizing their value, and keep trying to accumulate more trade assets (picks and young players).
@cybersoze
Thanks for becoming head of advertising and good will.
The ads should show for everyone. If anything I would reverse it, make it so that it doesn’t show for logged in users. I was actually considering finding a way to tie in KB to Patreon, so if you contribute to Patreon, you won’t see the ads, which I thought would be a nice way to thank those who support me.
Thanks – I’ll open a ticket with support. (Just kidding I don’t use a ticketing system. Or have a support team.)
I would do any of DeRozan, Butler, or OG for RJ, filler, and two top-3 protected firsts. Maybe throw IQ in there too.
As a fan base, we are seriously guilty of overvaluing our own kids. Any one of those aging stars would allow us to win a playoff series, which we could never do right now.
Now, is this the best long-term strategy? Probably not. But Dolan is gonna Dolan.
I would trade RJ and IQ for Butler. But that would never happen
***But how many good seasons Jimmy still has in the tank, it’s the million dollar question.***
From a quick perusal of his advanced metrics, you should be able to rely on Jimmy Butler giving you 1900 superstar minutes every season for the next 79 years.
I’m a miserable cunt when I’m underpaid, and I’m positively joyful when my pockets are full.
Perhaps some of this bipolarity occasionally comes out in my posts 😉
There are just some people for whom the whole idea of “work before I pay you” is deeply unsettling. We tend to be highly sensitive and see being underpaid as invalidation, whereas being paid equals validation and validation brings out our best work.
RJ Barrett is not one of us, apparently.
I can’t imagine why. Then again, Jowles just told me people think the vaccine causes a cardiac arrest, so who knows.
I couldn’t be happier for Mitch. I liked the springier more athletic version, but he has proven to be coachable and settled into what he has been asked to do. Next step would be adding a post move or two. I’m glad he has seemed to shake off the “dumb” label, which really bothered me. Who knows what kind of educational opportunities or upbring he’s had? From what I’ve read it hasn’t been the best. He was just young and inexperienced. He’s still only 24 and has room to grow. I’m really proud of the kid from Chalmette High School!
Is OG actually available, or are we wishcasting?
I’d throw a package of Obi, IQ, our first round pick this year (unprotected), and the Washington pick at them and see if that’s appealing.
There are just some people for whom the whole idea of “work before I pay you”
I mean Mitch’s first contract was highway robbery. I could see how when he was 19 he thought 1 million a year but after a season or two realized how much he got ripped off and that would make him upset. But we got him for a great deal on this second contract too.
He just looks so massive and dominant out there most nights. If he can add just one or two post moves and sink a 10 footer (and do better on free throws) he would be completely dominant. But as he is right now, he’s great. I love that we brought him back and we’re the ones who have developed him.
Honestly tho, Obi plus RJ and a bucket of firsts for Jimmy Buckets are we not contenders immediately? Like puncher’s chance to go to the finals this year and next if healthy? If not why not?
Hubert, I liked the Wiggins one more.
As to Leon being patient, that’s because he hasn’t actually done much. He’s either patient, scared, somnambulent, or his second job (bass fishing?) is taking up too much of his time. All four seem equally possible.
we already have our one crazy hot head for the team – no to jimmy butler…
jalen’s controlling the offense, mitch is controlling the defense…no doubt jimmy’s talent is there – i just don’t see him meshing well with our team…
an interesting thought though on what player may enhance our squad if we do ship out obi…
i have a hard time believing we’ll pull the trigger on trading out quik…
Raven, I got cut off while editing the list. There were just too many examples of basketball players who did not work harder when they got paid. I started with Andrew Wiggins, dropped a little Eddy Curry and Jerome James, dug deep for Derrick Coleman. I was in the process of wondering if Kenny Anderson and Chris Webber counted when my time limit was up.
On the flip side, i.e. people who dog it until they’re paid, you have me, Mitch, and our inspirational leader: Rasheed “Cut the Check” Wallace.
when RJ returns it’ll be interesting to see if evian or deuce will be sitting…
i’m guessing deuce…haven’t looked at evian’s numbers, but – he seems to be doing okay the last few games…
“Honestly tho, Obi plus RJ and a bucket of firsts for Jimmy Buckets are we not contenders immediately? Like puncher’s chance to go to the finals this year and next if healthy? If not why not?”
Yes, I think we are. Trading RJ + picks for a star is our ideal play. Whatever one thinks of RJ, he doesn’t bring tons of value to us *currently.* If contending in the short-term is the goal IQ should be prioritized over RJ.
“when RJ returns it’ll be interesting to see if evian or deuce will be sitting…”
My baseless speculation is the front office had something to do with Deuce getting minutes because the clock on his contract is about to strike midnight, so I think he’s sticking around unless/until the front office decides there’s no there there.
LOL watch the trade end up being something like Obi and Cam for Jae Crowder. I would ask for a couple of picks (1st and a 2nd at minimum) but tbh- I don’t know what the Suns’ draft sitch is.
I think the better play is to skip Butler and go after OG. We do this in phases.
Phase 1: assemble a top 6 of Brunson, RJ, OG, Grimes, Randle, and Mitch by giving up all the assets Leon is likely going to just blow anyway. Trade IQ, Obi, Knicks 1st 2023 (unprotected), Knicks first 2024 (top 10 protected), Washington pick.*
Phase 2: enjoy that team this season and next. This is the kind of good non-contender we could all get behind.
Phase 3: go all in for a star after the 2024 season.
* I normally would not suggest that many picks for a non-star, but we know how poorly Leon manages assets. Masai might be able to get two future starters from that package; we’d be lucky if Leon got two picks that have less than top 18 protection.
i find it really surprising that we have so many who think we could be contenders… we’re currently…. despite all of these wins against teams without their best players …. and after a night where we got another win against a team without their best player…. in the 8th spot… no matter how good you think we are… we are very likely going to finish no better than 7th with a distinct possibility of being 9th if atlanta ever gets its act together…
backing up the truck now based on our current performance would be pretty crazy…. even if we get jimmy butler would we be favorites against the sixers?
if you didn’t think getting mitchell was worth it in the offseason then i’m not sure how much has changed… getting butler is an even more of an all-in move and i think is a bit crazy…. yes randle rebounding is a good sign but that wall to contention is a pretty tall climb and there’s really not much evidence to think it’d be worth it….
We’re on a two-game winning streak, djphan. The sky is the limit.
out of all the names being mentioned og is by far the most interesting considering that he probably comes the cheapest and might come with the best long term impact with fairly similar short term results as say someone like jimmy butler… i don’t think he’ll come cheap unfortunately or that he’s truly even available but i’d be rooting for that kind of name vs anyone 30+ and multiple firsts in the same sentence….
in the 8th spot…
I think people think this way because the league is super flat right now. There are so many teams in the middle, it feels like one big move plus some internal improvement could catapult us to the top tier.
We’re in the 8th spot but the Heat have the same record as us at 7. The Pacers are one game better at 6th. And Philly has one more win at 5th.
Even the jump up to 4th for Cleveland is only 4 games.
So we’re kind of at the top of the middle heap. One move could move us up for sure.
Trading RJ for Butler would be a coup. All those missed shots would start going in, all those turnovers would turn into assists, all that time spent covering the opponents best scorer would lead to a decrease in points against, and all those games Donnie skips would turn into must-see league pass viewing.
I just want to see Randle and Butler square off in practice. None of this Draymond one-punch bullhockey. Randle’s got the size, but I think my money would be on Butler due to the ferocity factor.
Trading RJ Barrett and picks for Jimmy Butler is a complete no brainer. Like not even up for discussion. If we can be a solidly good team and unload an undesirable contract that’s fantastic.
I wonder at what point Jokic and Jimmy B will see their VORP converge? 2030? Jokic will have to decline eventually.
Is OG a total defensive destroyer? I don’t really know him enough. But I would probably trade RJ for him too.
I’d back Randle heavy. “Eviscerating” Wiggins and KAT in practice isn’t really as impressive as it sounded at the time, and ever since Spoelstra calmly clapped back in Jimmy’s face I’ve gotten the sense Butler’s mostly bark.
Randle’s wingspan is 6’11” while Butler’s is only 6’8″. So maybe you’re right…
Butler wanted nothing to do with Udonis Haslem.
there’s levels to the whole – crazy person game – udonis seems to be on a higher tier of: a contact with a crazy person which most likely would result in physical harm…
udonis looks like someone who probably foams at the mouth (that spittle stuff) when really pissed…
“if you didn’t think getting mitchell was worth it in the offseason then i’m not sure how much has changed… ”
My opinion on Mitchell was that a trade would probably be dumb, but also probably smarter than what we’d do in the alternative. I feel okay about that take right now, though it’s impossible to know for sure without knowing exactly what we’d have to give up.
My take on Butler is that swapping out RJ for him would give us a legit non-zero chance to win the NBA finals. I have no idea what the precise chance would be, but Daryl Morey notoriously has a “Five Percent Rule” dictating that if you can get to a 5% chance to win the finals it’s justified to go all-in. I think we’d at least be pretty close.
Again, this is not the path I’d ever have taken to trying to assemble a contender. There are just too many things totally out of your control that have to go right, and you wind up having to pick between deeply flawed options.
But a 5% chance at winning a title is more than I’d ever thought this path would yield, so I’d sign up for it, albeit with some trepidation.
I think there’s some real merit to the idea that this team is a contender with Jimmy. The Heat are not a good team as presently constructed and they’re still 20-18 because he’s been amazing when healthy. That’s with Adebayo having a down season, Lowry being washed and Herro being his only consistently above average teammate. The rest of the rotation is a horror show of scrubs, with Strus, Vincent, Martin, Highsmith, Robinson, Oladipo, Dedmon, all guys that I wouldn’t want playing a single minute for the Knicks in an ideal scenario.
You’re suddenly swapping a -2 BPM player in Barrett for a 7.5 BPM consistent player who also brings defense and leadership and is by all accounts a hard worker (even though i laugh about how much he seems to want to market that as his persona)…that’s a scary team.
I think a Brunson / Butler / Grimes or IQ / Randle / Mitch is a nightmare defensive match-up for many teams as Butler could guard the big wings Grimes and IQ struggle with, while leaving them to defend faster guards. Plus the offense would be so much better with Jimmy being on a superior level compared to RJ in well, pretty much everything.
Yes, his age scares me and the injuries too, and as good as the team would be there’s no guarantee it would win it all, but in this path of development we’ve taken there’s no real guarantees anyway, who knows if the next star that ever becomes available will even want to play for the Knicks, or will even be as good as Jimmy in the first place?
There were rumors about Toronto having an insanely high asking price for OG. Which kind of makes sense, because even if they tear it apart, he is part of the core they would like to keep.
Trading for Butler makes more sense, but we are really gambling on him keeping his level of play for a couple of seasons more, at least. Getting LeBron James this season (and not next one) would be also quite the gamble, but might work.
We might make a lesser move, maybe getting Crowder or one of the Bogdanovics, but I don’t think we move RJ in such a move, which is the point of it. RJ’s play in December has been encouraging but I really don’t think it will last.
This thread is weird because Pat Riley would never trade Jimmy Butler for RJ Barrett & picks, yet for some reason we are proceeding as if he might.
Have there been any reports anywhere of Miami possibly looking to move Butler? I mean, it’s fun to speculate and all, but as someone pointed out earlier, Riley is still all in on this team and is not going to take a step back with RJ and a bunch of picks.
(But for the record, I love Jimmy Buckets and would give up RJ, IQ and a ton of picks to get him. The man is a bad ass and a winner and an actual 2 way star.)
I’m not sure what % chance is the correct cutoff for us to use in deciding whether we should go in, but I think part of the answer is how many years we are going to have that chance.
I’d accept a lower chance if you gave me a 5 year window than if we are all in with a 1-2 year window.
The younger the team you currently have the less immediate risk you have to take because you have more years left to go all in.
A team like LA has a short window with Lebron. So going all in on the first player available to give them X% (whatever) makes more sense for them than a team of 25 years old players that needs one piece. The latter would basically be sacrificing an immediate X% this year and next for a chance at 2X% or 3X% over several years if they landed a better or younger piece.
Yeah I would bet against Pat Riley trading Jimmy Butler at all, and I would bet my rent money against him trading Jimmy Butler to the Knicks for RJ and picks. His age and production make it an interesting academic exercise, I suppose.
Realistically we have no idea who the next star to hit the market is…though I have a funny feeling it’ll be a Tristate Area product repped by CAA currently toiling in Minnesota, who is basically perfectly engineered to generate all kinds of fun discourse because he objectively has not been better than Julius Randle this year.
“I have a funny feeling it’ll be a Tristate Area product repped by CAA currently toiling in Minnesota, who is basically perfectly engineered to generate all kinds of fun discourse because he objectively has not been better than Julius Randle this year.”
I think that’s a pretty good bet given they already know they overpaid and probably blundered badly basketball wise with the Gobert trade. They may decide to trade Towns to try to recover some picks and young players to continue a rebuild around Edwards and just ride out the Gobert contract. Whether that makes sense for us is another issue.
“Whether that makes sense for us is another issue.”
Oo! Oo! I know! I know! (waving hand wildly from the back of the class)
i dont’ think we’re anything close to 5% to winning the ecf let alone the finals…. 5% is not some insignificant number that some injuries will net you… how many surprise champions have we had in the last 20 years? and again i’d caution ppl to backup the truck when this team has maybe one bonafide win against a competitive full roster…. what you’re seeing record wise is very likely a mirage and maybe that won’t be evident for another month but this whole idea that we’re one piece away now when we can’t get make it to a 5 seed with this much injury luck that we’re getting… is taking this thing way overboard….
we gotta see more before you mortgage the future…. because if you’re giving up 5 first rd picks to win right now.. and winning right now doesn’t get you past the first rd… that’s a huge fucking problem…
Knicks have the 7th best SRS in the NBA right now! But assuming the Heat get their act together which looks like they’re beginning too then the best the Knicks realistically can finish in the East is 7th. The Top 6 in the East if you include Miami is pretty freaking stacked.
following on dj phan above…we have a top 5 toughest strength of schedule for remainder of the season…either the mirage proves itself to be more real/sustainable or more likley exposes the weaknesses of the current roster config (vis a vis “contention”)…it should reveal itself to a certain extent by the trade deadline and then we’ll see how they decide to “optimize” our assets…
I don’t think Butler is getting traded or even wants to be traded anyway, I was just making an exercise on how the team would look like with him. For better or worse I think this is the team for the season, with maybe a small trade involving Fournier or Rose or Cam and that’s about it.
My point is more that a Jimmy Butler level talent changes a lot of things for a team and would transform this roster into a contender, which is more fun to speculate about to me than writing once more, for the 500th time, about how the hell are we ever going to realistically get a Jimmy Butler type of guy.
I’d say 2 (Pistons 2004 and Mavs 2011), which is 10%.
I don’t think it’s impossible for Butler to ask out of Miami, but I’m sure the Heat would get better offers than ours.
But I wouldn’t even mind DeRozan for RJ and a few picks. He’s become a great scorer and I definitely don’t believe in RJ long term. That probably doesn’t make us a contender, but it could get us a few rounds into the playoffs.
Considering what this FO is after, I just want a rootable team where all the parts somewhat make sense together. No one should expect an exciting young rebuild, but we can still have a good squad and some playoff games.
No need to do anything crazy by the trade deadline. If they can trade any of Cam, Fournier, Rose and even Obi for useful bench pieces go for it but I’d rather play this season out and make any drastic changes in the offseason.
At this point I’m rooting for them to make the playoffs however possible, most likely by finishing 7-8th and advancing thru the play in which would be fun to watch. Then in the 1st rd put a scare into their opponent by possibly winning a couple of games.
Then summer time the serious discussions about this roster’s future can take place.
a true test in self control…at home working while the kids are simultaneously breaking from school…
doing this all sober at the moment, is simply not working for me…thankfully always plenty of edibles, even with super air purifiers, candles and an open window – try not to smoke with them in the house…i saved a couple of the xanax until i was able to speak with the va shrink to get more drugs – hydroxyzine is in the mail somehwhere…
i’m gonna go walk to the mailbox, if that new shiny thing ain’t there, gonna gulp down one of my few remaining xanax i still got…
yeppers, better living through chemistry…
i understand the desire towards contention – i’d be generally against bringing in anyone over 30 for at least another season or two…
evian is about as old a player as i’d like to see the knicks throw out on to the court…
This trade deadline is going to be strange, on one hand there’s a lot of parity so there’s lots of teams that can dream of contending by making only one move (like we’re debating in the Knicks case), but on the other hand there’s no teams thinking about tearing it down because of said parity.
The NBA is as flat as it has been in as long as I can remember. There’s 1 team that Vegas has as better than 5-1 and that is Boston who I would agree is the the smart $. But they are flawed. The current 20-1 teams are NOLA and Cle. So we don’t think Jimmy puts us in that tier? Hmmm
Pass on Butler.
Think RJ, a young borderline all star (locked up with a reasonable contract), + pieces (Obi, Deuce, Hart) + a ton of 1st round picks is a good haul for a disgruntled under 30yr, – all NBA 2 way wing.
Leon needs to continue to do what he does best…NOTHING.
Don’t think there is any real reason to tinker around the edges with adding any pieces that would get real court time. We have a logjam as it is. Evan, Rose, Obi, Hart for more draft capital is fine. Obi needs to bring back something material tho. Other than that I’d sit it out unless something changes on the court or said star becomes free.
Trae Young anyone? Not me
Low key trade that seems possible- Hart for Otto Porter. Porter would obviously need to get healthy but he’d really help the second unit and would slot in nicely with the starters as well. The Raptors could really use a center and given that their all 6’8″ lineup isn’t exactly working out I’m sure Porter is very expendable. It’s a risk given that Mitch is injury prone (and Porter is as well). but I don’t think it’d cost us any picks and would be a nice upgrade.
I think the Knicks have 4 assets that (combined) are worth a dollar today but will be worth 20 cents in a year: IQ, Obi Toppin, the Washington pick, and our unprotected pick this year. I would work very hard to sell that package to a middle of the pack team that needs multiple players and picks more than one good young player.
Here are the teams I think would be open to that and the players I would target:
– Toronto: OG (we’d have to throw in another first)
– Phoenix: Bridges (we’d have to throw in another first)
– Dallas: Wood
– Washington: Porzingis (surprise!)
– Chicago: Lonzo (pending physical)
All those teams are middling and asset starved. Each of those players is a good contributor but not a building block. I think it could work.
So much of the difficulty is having this weird schedule where we keep playing teams with injured stars. We’ll need to wait till the trade deadline before it makes any sense to make a move. There’s just too many question marks right now.
Obi upgraded to Doubtful!
Pistons 2004 was a top 4 team in SRS that season, Miami 2006 was only top 6 and maybe more of a surprise (according to the numbers).
Everybody plays teams with missing best players. Heat just won in LA with Kawhi out and Wizards won in Milwaukee with no Giannis, Middleton and Holiday. In today’s NBA that’s just how it is, nowadays your actually unlucky if your playing a team at full strength.
I know you weren’t necessarily replying to me, but…
I don’t think there’s any question that Obi is going to top out at 18 mpg and that Leon wants nothing to do with three first round picks this summer.
IQ is a valuable piece, but if we can combine him with Obi and two of those picks before Leon squanders them, we could get a much more valuable piece than IQ.
It’s just asset optimization, and I don’t think our record plays into it at all.
If they aren’t trading for draft capital because Leon won’t use it and if they are trading IQ who plays a valuable and positive role on today’s team what are they getting for Obi, IQ and 2 firsts that helps? Is that that OG deal?
I actually didn’t realize how many point Spida scored. That’s pretty good.
Defector did a whole post about how his missed ft putback was a lane violation. I can’t disagree but still quite cool
Apparently we are monitoring LaVine, although I can’t imagine Chicago wants to move him yet… But they could really use Quickley and Obi. I’ve never liked LaVine, but he’s still better than RJ.
I love Giannis, and not just because I am maritally obligated to be, but how many steps does he take here. I need the slo mo.
https://twitter.com/nba/status/1610449907563003905?s=61&t=QsOmVWR2BXToG7bqbVzYIQ
“Obi upgraded to Doubtful!”
I thought that was where a lot of people here already put him.
Owen, it’s like trying to make a call on a gazelle, but that looked like two steps once he took possession, dribbled, and gathered. Not a travel…I think.
As for Lavine, on that contract, with those knees, I would actually rather have RJ, and that’s as the leader of the Trade RJ contingent.
Rama, he stops dribbling just before the three-point line, and then takes three steps to dunk it.
Is that a travel? Not in today’s NBA.
Celtics getting blown out by the Thunder without SGA
Sweet…
GREAT Celtics game. They’re down 37.
lol Celts 0 for 2023!
150-113
You hate to see it
I suggested we inquire about OG, Mikal Bridges, Lonzo Ball (pending physical), Porzingis, and Christian Wood.
Each of those players is an established two-way starter on a middling team with a shortage of depth and picks, and is likely to outperform IQ by a very large margin. But none of them are building blocks that a non-contender would be loathe to move.
This is what a consolidation trade would have to look like. You’re not getting anything from packaging Fournier, Rose, Deuce, Cam, iHart. They’re all just fodder for the waiver wire.
Raven, slowed it down, you’re right lol
Just crazy how much ground he covers, right
So funny. So Tatum gets 27, Brown gets 29. Shai doesn’t play, against the #1 offense in the league and one of the best defenses.
And the Thunder win by 33.
Meanwhile that cheater Giannis goes for 55, 10, and 7.
Some amazing box scores these last few weeks.
Porzingis is intriguing
I’m good with the roster we have for now, loving watching the young guys developing. Hopefully IQ, RJ and Grimes will be here for a long time.
For the record, I’m less high on OG than many here. I don’t get where the desire to give up multiple assets for him comes from.
Anunoby is basically “Cam Reddish, but good.” He’s the player you wish Cam would be.
OG is also Barrett, Grimes, or IQ, but better.
I like all three of those guys but there’s a big drop off from Randle, Brunson, and Mitch to the next best guy on our team.
A guy like OG or Bridges would have a big knock on effect, reducing RJ’s workload and allowing us to use Grimes off the bench.
And again, the value of the assets in question is very likely to drop off a cliff soon. It’s as much about selling high as anything else.
“I think that’s what I like about our perimeter guys, they’re versatile and they can play multiple positions,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “Quick can play with the starters, he can play with the bench. He can play the point, he can play the 2.“I don’t know what he is, he’s just a good basketball player.”
doesn’t sound like a guy that’s on the block…
I love, love seeing the Celtics get stomped. What a funny game. Their coach was pretty funny after the game, too, joking about how bad they looked.
back on Atlanta, just finished season 3, episode 1…the larry one…
absolutely no question – I am gonna have each of the kids watch that one with me…
oh hell yeah…
best kids afternoon special ever…
I like that OG is a productive and versatile 2-way long wing, the most coveted non-star asset in the NBA, and he’s got some shot creation chops. However, he’s 25, and in 5 seasons has posted a peak BPM of 1.2 and his last 2 seasons were at 0.5 and 0.3. He doesn’t pass at all and is so-so from 3. He has another year left on his contract before a player option kicks in, and he will likely decline it. An if he’s that good, why would TOR want to let him go, even for assets? We’re dealing with Masai Ujiri here….
Given how young our guys are, I don’t see why we don’t just try to acquire a guy like him in the draft. If we’re going to burn assets, let it be for an actual star. Lots of folks liked Tari Eason as potentially that kind of player, and guys like that are always available where we will likely be drafting. OG himself was taken at #23.
BTW I know we didn’t use our draft pick last year, but I was fine with that route to dump vets to clearing cap space for Brunson, and to me that has no bearing on what will happen this year. Obi, IQ, Grimes, Deuce and Sims were all drafted by this FO, and RJ and Mitch before that. We used that CHA pick acquired via the #19 pick as a flier on Cam, and it didn’t really work out but that kind of move is not bad in and of itself. My point is that we shouldn’t make assumptions on what they will do in the draft based on what they did in any particular spot.
So that wasn’t a travel? Wow
I don’t get the OG love. I have watched him. I like him. But he seems very far from a back up the truck kind of guy.
I would put Grimes comfortably in his own tier on this team. He’s been better than everyone not in our top three.
I wholeheartedly agree, but we’ve seen Leon pass on multiple opportunities to select a guy like that in the draft bc he has delusions of grandeur. This thought process is largely based on the assumption that he will handle having three picks in the first round the same way he has always handled it.