[news.google.com] — Sunday, January 1, 2023 4:23:00 AM
Evan Fournier and Derrick Rose providing big lift for Knicks New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, January 1, 2023 2:04:51 AM
Booker, Phoenix set for matchup with New York The Associated Press – en Espa?ol
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 11:07:44 PM
Houston Rockets turn the ball over 25 times vs. New York Knicks Houston Chronicle
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 10:58:45 PM
Randle’s 35 leads Knicks over Rockets to snap skid CBS News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 9:56:17 PM
Julius Randle, Knicks end 2022 on positive note in win over Rockets Reading Eagle
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 9:30:45 PM
NBA: New York Knicks at Houston Rockets | Fieldlevel | mdjonline.com MDJOnline.com
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 6:07:07 PM
FINAL UPDATE: Jalen Brunson’s Injury Status For Knicks-Rockets Game Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 6:00:00 PM
How to Watch Houston Rockets vs. New York Knicks: Free Live Stream, TV Channel, Start Time Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 5:39:10 PM
“We got 53 Cents for every Dollar”: Former Knicks GM, Isiah Thomas Appreciated Michael Jordan for Bringing The NBA Business The Sportsrush
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 5:20:36 PM
Have Knicks Found ‘Really Good Match’ in Obi Toppin Trade? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 5:11:39 PM
Report: Knicks and Pacers discussed trade around Obi Toppin Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 4:00:00 PM
New Year’s resolutions for the Boston Celtics (Part 1) Celtics Blog
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 3:56:00 PM
Video: Alex Trataros of Knicks Fan TV breaks down the Knicks recent struggles New York Post
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 3:39:00 PM
Knicks Notes: Quickley, Toppin, Randle, Dolan hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 3:00:32 PM
Rockets vs. Knicks: How to watch NBA online, TV channel, live stream info, game time CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 2:58:50 PM
The 5 moments that defined a terrible 2022 for the Knicks Boston Herald
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 2:35:53 PM
Here are the moments that defined a bad 2022 for the Knicks New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 1:00:57 PM
NBA insider says Indiana Pacers and New York Knicks rumored to be in talks 8 Points, 9 Seconds
[news.google.com] — Saturday, December 31, 2022 8:00:00 AM
Cam Reddish’s admission about Knicks rotation reflects state of organization Daily Knicks
48 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.01.01)”
Let me start by saying happy new year!
Also I’m not crazy about trading Obit but looking at this team this season and what we need, once people are healthy, does it make sense to trade OBI and cam for future assets and keep Rose and Fournier?
OBI and Cam are the ones who have the most value bc of their age and upside.
Rose expires after this season but having him play it out as a mentor and third string PG for insurance makes sense.
Fournier’s contract right now makes it harder to move him BUT he is an excellent three point shooter and our team, especially our bench, needs his scoring punch.
Once everybody is healthy thibs can go back to a 10 man rotation, keep the Hart and Sims twin towers with the bench but play Fournier at the three for extra scoring punch off the bench and shooting.
This seems like a nice hybrid balance for the season. Gives us some future assets by trading off OBI and Cam, helps us shore up the bench and offense for a playoff push and gives us a 10 man rotation so dudes don’t get quite so run down plus you got D Rose as pg insurance as the 11th man.
Plus Fournier would be easier to move without assets in the off season or next season especially if he gets consistent bench minutes and puts up points.
I think trading Obi is entirely about the way Randle is playing. They drafted Obi in part because they were looking to replace Randle. Then Randle had a break out All Star season. So they decided to extend him. Then Randle had a poor year and the debate was back on. At this stage I think they’ve seen enough of both and have decided that Randle will be the starting PF going forward. So if they can find a deal that adds a 1st round pick for Obi, that’s better for their search for an All Star player than playing Obi 15 minutes off the bench and trying to trade him as part of a bigger deal (though both options are open).
Happy New Year!
Link above says Knicks are looking for a 1st or two in an Obi trade. Pacers have Celtics & Cavs picks this year. Both are protected and turn into 2nds if they don’t convey. I’d be surprised if they don’t convey.
Would much prefer Pacers pick even if protected.
Fournier reminds me of a little of Courtney Lee. He’s a likable player, can shoot the 3 and space the floor, and plays good team basketball. Both were probably given one year and a little too much money on their contracts because we needed the shooting. Both slowed a little on defense at the end. Lee eventually got hurt and that made him tougher to trade. Let’s hope Fournier remains healthy so we at least have some option.
I agree and I think Randle has redeemed himself. I think last year was just a confluence of inflated expectations meeting a crash to earth, Walker not working out, and maybe some personal stuff that all kind of reached a boiling point that was unfortunate. Any fan who “hates” Randle now is being petty over a few bad moments last year.
Production wise and salary wise he’s an absolute steal and with a good PG at the helm, his worst tendencies are motivated some. I think he would absolutely feast on a team with a legit superstar as the main option and I do not buy at all the idea that he is too selfish or stupid to know and accept that.
So yeah it sucks to whiff on the OBI pick so badly but hindsight is 20/20 and we can’t probably still get something decent for him if we trade him now especially if Cam is included.
And Fournier is not a problem. He’s proven that he can be the good soldier on the bench while not playing. Plus he has a skill we lack on this team. So why not be patient and hold on to him a bit longer so he becomes easier to trade.
GK, I’ve noticed that Knicks players who are injured tend to stay out longer than you might expect, but they come back healthy (knock on wood). I think some teams rush players back too soon and risk reinjury. I happy with the Knicks medical staff because of this.
I should add one thing on Obi. The Pacers make some sense because of Turner. One of the reasons the Knicks were interested in Turner was the better spacing at C to go along with Randle or Obi. Teamed with Turner instead of Mitch, it’s less necessary for Obi to shoot 3s and other outside shots. He’ll have more space to catch lobs. It could be a win-win (especially for Obi) if we can get a fair price. Don’t get me wrong. I love Obi, but he’s limited, and is not what we need at PF. Randle isn’t exactly what I’d like either, but he’s a more complete player.
It would be sad to trade Obi for a likely #24-30 pick, basically admitting that it was a total whiff at #8. But being that 3 of our starters (Brunson, Mitch, Grimes) and 4 other current rotation players (IQ, Hart, Sims, Deuce) were picked in or after that range, maybe cutting bait is best for both the Knicks and Obi. So long as Randle is on the team, healthy, and playing like this, Obi is not going to get an opportunity to show out.
With last night’s numbers added in, Randle’s December numbers are eye-opening…37mpg, 29.6% usage, 28/11/4, .611 TS%. That’s the best he’s played since Feb 2021: 37mpg, 25/11/5, .605 TS%.
The main difference is that in Feb 2021 he was hitting a ridiculous 46.3% from 3, while this December he was at a much more sustainable 36.8%
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. We do well when we pick later plus an extra pick is one more pick to throw in to a superstar trade.
Rose won’t fetch anything but he can still play ten minutes a game if needed. Fournier will cost us assets right now but is a valuable scorer, which we need. Next year will be the last year he’s guaranteed, so I think we can trade him in the summer or next season. Plus rose and Fournier and consummate vets who are fine with their limited roles.
Cam and OBI can actually bring back assets.
Sims should remain in the rotation. It all makes too much sense given where we are, what we want to do this season but also what we hope to build up in the next few seasons.
This doesn’t mean Randle won’t eventually be traded. Maybe Randle can be the guy we trade eventually with some picks for Zion for example.
Just to put it into perspective, you’d be trading Obi for pretty much what we used to trade for Cam, and at around the same time in his rookie deal. Sadly, that’s about Obi’s value right now…
And alas, Hali keeps on keeping on…
Could only watch moments of the game due to intrusive guests, but the box is pretty interesting: 35-12-6 for Randle is pretty darn good but the number I like most is the 1 for turnovers… Looks like Mitch did relatively well, 3 blocks and 3 steals, despite nobody passing him the ball (4 shots? Really?)… Quickley and Grimes seemingly did okay…
Deuce pushing my love at 1-10, but then again sharpshooter Evan was 2-8. I do appreciate Thibs doing everything possible to see if Miles is physically/mentally capable of shooting his way out of this… leaves open the question of whether it’s worse to not have enough data on some bench guy you like, or too much data…
Happy 2023 everyone. Here’s to the start of another win streak…
I think you can get a rotation piece and a low first for Obi rn. I think that’s selling low, and we are going to be very grouchy when he’s thriving in an appropriate and expanded role elsewhere, but that seems to be how this admin rolls: fuck something up and deal with it as soon as they realize it, even if that’s not the optimal time/price.
Maybe we can get one of Jalen Smith, Kendall Brown, or Chris Duarte along with a first. Duarte, in particular, seems redundant for them now.
Anyway, I’m sort of fine with an Obi trade at this point. He clearly doesn’t fit Thibs’ play style and I’d like to see him at least thrive elsewhere because I like the guy.
As for Cam, I really don’t think you can get more than two 2nds for him rn (or use him to dump Fournier), and that’s fine.
As long as we get draft compensation and bench pieces that can help keep us in games, it’s all good.
I would do Duarte for obi in a heartbeat…
I don’t believe that any team would give up both a young rotation-level piece and a protected 1st for Obi.
Duarte has been terrible this year.
I’m not high on Duarte either but the league probably values him and Obi similarly
***I would do Duarte for obi in a heartbeat…***
I would too, just to open up an avenue for some Peronism jokes that nobody will understand.
Duarte and a pick sounds like a decent little haul for OBI.
Two seconds for cam works for me too.
Let’s consolidate.
Why do people want Duarte? He sucks and is going to be 26 next year. We have plenty of younger, better wings.
An Obi trade should get back both the Cavs & Celtics 1sts at minimum.
If we get a single 2nd back for Cam I’d be thrilled, I’m not convinced we can get that.
I don’t necessarily want Duarte. I’d rather try to find playing time for Obi by playing him at the three and or giving Julius minutes at the five. Alas, the Knicks don’t often do what I want. I know the Knicks coveted him in the draft, and despite him having a down year this year, they may still like him. Unless there’s a bigger move in the works, I don’t see the value in two more late first round picks.
— duplicate post —
Obi has shown to be a way more productive player than Cam ever was. But it is true that he belongs to an archetype of player that is not highly valued currently. We can see that Atlanta has tried to trade John Collins for a while (who is a reasonably productive player) and has not been able to do so.
Correct, iserp. Although I also think there’s a bit of Obi being overvalued by Knicks fans. The unfortunate truth is he’s just not all that good.
As to Duarte, he was injured and has only played 286 minutes this year. He’s probably better than he’s showed thus far.
I’d much rather keep Obi than trade him for Duarte, but if a pick is thrown in it is very tempting.
without looking at stats and just in the games I have seen (1) Duarte is probably a more reliable outside shot (this year has too much noise given his injury(ies) which we need and (2) he seems like the guy who would dunk on his mom if it meant winning a game…Obi…not so much…I want more hungry dudes on this team…
Would much prefer Nesmith to Duarte who is 2.5 years younger, longer, and I think a better shooter.
The Obi to Indy trade is interesting because I think he’ll be a star next to Myles Turner but there’s almost nowhere else he could do that.
Yeah, I’d also prefer Nesmith, EB. But idk if Indy trades him as he’s trending upward.
They have a lot of interesting young guys they don’t have minutes for. Even Kendall Brown has been playing ok. But yeah, Nesmith would be something we need: a good version of Cam.
“I would too, just to open up an avenue for some Peronism jokes that nobody will understand.”
Would that make us his descamisados? 😉
Obi is at about his lowest possible value. Trading him now would be really dumb. Plus if we trade him who do we start at PF since I think most everyone here is still in agreement we need to move Randle.
For those who want to keep him it is really the Randle paradox in full effect. When he’s bad no one wanted him and he is unmovable and then when he plays better he is too important to this team to move.
Don’t be fooled he can only seem to muster up short spurts of good defense and in between he is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Good Randle is pure fools gold and if we don’t take advantage of this stint of good play to trade him we will all be back to wanting to move an unmovable player soon enough.
Actually, Cleveland really needs a four and Obi could help them. But they have traded away most of their assets so I don’t know what they could give us for him.
Cleveland? What about Mobley?
Good point. But I remember reading they needed a forward. Maybe they said it’s a small forward they need and I remembered it wrong.
Yeah, I think they are looking for a small forward, like half the league seems to be. Maybe they could take a flyer on Cam?
Obi is fun. Obi is hurt.
This is dumb
“Obi is fun. Obi is hurt. This is dumb”
Appears to be a haiku but not really….sort of fits.
“Don’t be fooled he can only seem to muster up short spurts of good defense and in between he is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Good Randle is pure fools gold and if we don’t take advantage of this stint of good play to trade him we will all be back to wanting to move an unmovable player soon enough.”
I respectfully disagree with this take. Especially the “one of the worst defenders in the league” part.
I’d like them to fire Thibs and trade Randle. I felt that way when they were three under .500, I felt that way when they were winning eight in a row and I felt that way when they were losing five in a row.
But I know it’s not going to happen, so I’ll be content enjoying Randle doing as well as he possibly can!
So I’ll just keep it as implied. If you ever think to yourself, “Would Brian like us to fire Thibs and trade Randle?,” then you know the answer is, “Yes, yes he would.” 😉
“But I know it’s not going to happen, so I’ll be content enjoying Randle doing as well as he possibly can!”
yeah…I am in acceptance mode as well…just have to ride it out…
Brian and pepper, exactly. Still, I would suggest that there is a pretty wide range of opinions here, from those who would trade him right now even at the cost of a protected first, to those who would only trade him if we got significant assets back in return or in a package for a superstar. I’m definitely more towards the latter position.
I have pretty much never been worried about his deal being an actual albatross, and nothing that he is doing this year so far is all that surprising to me. I don’t think he will ever be particularly hard to trade in a *neutral-ish* manner going forward. He’s put the empty-arena illusion nonsense to bed. While I don’t expect that a team would give up for him what Sacto gave up for Sabonis, we could definitely move him for *something.*
So this isn’t like being resigned to Amar’e’s or H20’s or Eddy’s remaining years. Randle is playing at an all-star level, and there’s probably just as much chance that he will stay at this level or even improve over the next year or two as there is that he will decline to 2021-22 level play. So in that sense, I’m in a better place than “we’re stuck with him, so might as well just hope for the best.”
Yeah, Duarte is definitely the guy they’ll look to move over Nesmith, especially with Mathurin in the fold. If Duarte has been struggling because of injury, I’d definitely reconsider my initial reaction. The FO supposedly wanted Duarte pretty bad in the draft.
I’d still want both the Cavs & Celts 1sts along with Duarte. The Cavs & Celts are currently 1st & 2nd in SRS. Those are not going to be valuable picks.
———————–
We’re locked in with Randle for better or worse. When we were discussing the Randle paradox nobody saw him being as good as he’s been this year. He’s blowing his pandemic year out of the water right now without hitting an unsustainable number of 3s.
On the other hand, Randle is hitting his 3-10ft shots at a much higher rate (52%) than his career average (40%), however, if we replaced his current year rate with his career average rate he’d still be at exactly league average TS%. That’s a big downturn, but still higher than the year of the empty gym.
Mitch is on the verge of becoming a starting Center on a championship caliber team. Kid is a difference maker. JB and Randle are a perfect 2nd or 3rd option on any given night. Grimes is our high efficiency, high value glue guy player that effects winning and IQ is instant offense 6th man. All we’re missing is one two way alpha dog franchise player and a smart head coach. Only possible player that fits is Jaylen Brown who has not signed extension and has hinted that he wants to get under Tatum’s shadow.
Would send RJ, Obi + 5 1st for Jaylen Brown and Udoka
Celts are gonna lose to the Nuggets, so far so good in 2023!
So the top 5 seeds in the East seem kinda locked up, and now the following teams are within 3.5 games of the #6 spot in the East:
IND (0)
NYK, MIA (-1.0)
ATL (-2.5)
WAS, CHI, TOR (-3.5)
I suppose you’d make MIA the favorite, but beyond that it’s pretty wild!
After X years of Atlanta turning it on in the second half, I have to think that they’ll eventually do so again. They’re not a deep team, and they’ve been fully healthy (by which I mean all five starters starting the game) for, like, a single game this season. Don’t get me wrong, they’re a trainwreck in so many ways, but they just have way too much talent to be this bad.
They are all not so horrible teams but at least two of them won’t even make the play in.
rolling over to next thread