[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 27, 2022 3:32:45 AM
Grizzlies vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 27, 2022 3:00:16 AM
“That’s like the best feeling as a guard” ? John Starks shared his favorite dunk besides “The Dunk” Basketball Network
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 10:14:24 PM
Knicks look for better defensive showing vs. Grizzlies WGN Radio – Chicago
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 7:10:00 PM
Knicks’ Obi Toppin looking to rekindle shooting form amid slump New York Post
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 5:47:00 PM
How’s Trail Blazers Coach Chauncey Billups Doing So Far? Blazer’s Edge
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 5:45:40 PM
Jalen Brunson Lands on Knicks’ Latest Injury List Sports IllustratedJalen Brunson questionable for Grizzlies game in latest Knicks injury blow New York Post Knicks Notes: Brunson, Rose, Barrett, Robinson hoopsrumors.comDespite underwhelming season, Knicks have found their leader YardbarkerKnicks injury update: Jalen Brunson questionable to play vs Grizzlies Empire Sports MediaView Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 4:59:30 PM
Tom Thibodeau is letting Knicks cornerstone RJ Barrett work his way out of slump Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 3:04:19 PM
Mitchell Robinson is playing through knee pain: ‘It ain’t broke so let’s go’ New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 2:55:00 PM
New York Notes: Simmons, Claxton, Randle, Knicks Centers hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 2:23:16 PM
Knicks’ Derrick Rose: Officially questionable CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 10:01:41 AM
Knicks’ Julius Randle: Stuffs stat sheet in OT loss CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 8:30:00 AM
Anfernee Simons drops 38 points in Friday’s win over Knicks FantasyPros
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 8:21:00 AM
Jusuf Nurkic flirts with triple-double in Friday’s win over Knicks FantasyPros
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 8:20:58 AM
Knicks let Trail Blazers set all kinds of career highs in Friday’s loss WFAN
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 8:07:00 AM
Josh Hart grabs 19 rebounds Friday against Knicks FantasyPros
[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 26, 2022 8:00:00 AM
3 glaring offseason regrets Knicks have after first month of season Daily Knicks
57 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.11.27)”
Worry? That’s Leon Rose’s fantasy scenario! Who wants to draft players when you can just kick the can down the road again and again and again?
“Worry? That’s Leon Rose’s fantasy scenario! Who wants to draft players when you can just kick the can down the road again and again and again?”
Sadly, that makes too much sense…
The west is stronger this year than last year and Dallas is weaker. That’s why I’ve been saying in recent weeks that our Dallas pick has grown in value. No one expected Cuban to be this incompetent. But unless Doncic gets hurt, I’d still expect them to make play in or playoffs. As far as the pick goes, I’d expect Rose to try to consolidate it in a trade for a upgrade or to move up. I’m not expecting him to add 3 players out of the draft when we need upgrades not more depth.
We’ve been down this route with the Mavs pick in 2021, which seemed like it would be in the lottery for a while. I doubt it will be in the top 20.
The Washington pick is the one most likely not to convey. We’re probably better off hoping it doesn’t, because Alan is right that Leon will likely squander it.
But that’s a dangerous game bc the Wizards may get worse after this year and the pick would never convey.
Either way, I find it difficult to be excited about the possibility of multiple picks with this regime.
The Jazz will probably fall back, but beyond that the Western Conference playoff picture is going to be a bloodbath. GSW seems to be back on track?
You have to figure that PHX, DEN, MEM and GSW are locks for the top six. Then it gets complicated. Can the Clips stay healthy? Can Minny stabilize at a high level? What about NOP? Is SAC for real? Blazers with Dame are a team to reckon with. And who knows with the Lakers?
I can’t see DAL finishing above #7, and more likely end up 9 or 10. They have no depth and are more Luka-dependent than ever. If the Lakers figure it out, it’s not out of the question that they finish at #11, especially if they have a late season injury to a key player or two.
Agreed, it’s really sad…
The idea of multiple first round picks should always be exciting, instead after the frustration/anger of the last three drafts it makes me sick…
It’s undoubtedly the thing about our actual FO that I hate the most.
Yesterday I said that I’m not sure if I want to watch anymore Knicks games until we have a clear path- but I’m DEFINITELY not watching today if Brunson isn’t playing.
Though it is intriguing to see what Quickley does…
The odd thing is this front office has done well with late first round picks and second round picks, just not with top ten picks. I don’t know why.
This is what Presti has done at OKC the last couple of drafts. It’s not unreasonable.
I’m going to the Knicks game today, but it’ll be a real bummer if Brunson isn’t playing—at least I’ll still be able to see Ja. Maybe we get our wish and RJ clocks below 30 minutes today after a poor start.
Well, things are not hopeless, and it isn’t impossible for Leon to pivot.
Hopefully, after the Utah trade, he sees that young players can be as crucial to winning a trade as draft picks. Plus, I feel like when we are finally on the clock, Leon will make his decision by saying something akin to “well, everyone says this is a deep draft, so make the pick!”
Additionally, the Dallas pick could easily be used to offload some vets this offseason, if they are still around. In fact, the only way I can see someone taking Julius is if they are desperate enough to get a certain kid at pick 20 or so.
“I’m not expecting him to add 3 players out of the draft when we need upgrades not more depth.”
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The. Draft. Is. How. You. Upgrade.
And in non-snark, this roster is absolutely, positively, in absolutely, positively MASSIVE need of upgrade. There is no other accurate perspective. This roster has gargantuan holes, gargantuan imbalances, and has gargantuan needs.
Either way, I find it difficult to be excited about the possibility of multiple picks with this regime.
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It’s bare minimum 50% Leon incinerates another first this year. I wouldn’t take the bet for only even odds.
It’s hard to find good two way players in the draft, but if you are going to select where the Knicks are likely to select with either their own and/or the Dallas pick I think the default should be drafting high level defensive talent that needs multi year development on offense (often available) than mediocre offensive talent on both sides (which is what we usually wind up with).
This is supposed to be a deep draft. I think there’s a good chance they’ll add 1 player in the next draft, but they are obviously big game hunting.
Nothing about the plan has changed. The Knicks are in the same boat as about 20 other teams.
They aren’t in “let’s hope we get lucky in the lottery and draft one of these years” mode.
They aren’t already a contender.
They aren’t an old team trying to squeeze out one more serious run with this team.
They are somewhere in the middle looking for upgrades with excess picks, development from young players, and trades using picks and or players just like almost everyone else. Until the reality that this will play itself out over the next “2-3” years sinks in, it wasted breath to talk about prior drafts with the benefit of hindsight or grow frustrated that we aren’t Orlando, Houston, Detroit, and San Antonio in tank mode or Charlotte forced into tank mode.
Just wait it out and hope players like Cam and Grimes keep getting better on both sides, Obi learns to shoot 3s when they actually defend him and gets better on the other side, Mitch can stay healthy for more than a dozen games, Sims keeps making progress, and RJ comes out of his coma before Christmas.
They aren’t already a contender.
They aren’t an old team trying to squeeze out one more serious run with this team.
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Correct. Either of those would be better.
Instead, they’re in purgatory. Not bad enough to get a great draft pick, not remotely close to contending for anything. Capped out with a lot of bad negative assets. Not a threat to anyone else or anything else. No analysts are out there saying, “Oh, the Knicks are getting closer; Oh, the Knicks are doing great things,’ Oh, the Knicks are on the launching pad.”
Like we’ve said, arguably the worse situation in the entire association. For people who want to fantasize about “trading for two stars,” literally every single team in the league can have the very same fantasy and the vast majority of them, all but a handful if that, have a better chest of assets to fulfill the fantasy. (And that’s exactly what it is. When a Leon Rose starts talking in those terms, he crosses that unfortunate line from merely unlucky/bad/not creative/unimaginative, to pathetic.)
The Knicks are in association Palookaville. This is become more and more clear to we KBers and eventually everyone will get there. It’s undebatable.
I can’t kill their draft record. Consider the 5 guys taken after each Knicks pick as the likely pool of alternatives.
RJ: Hunter, Garland, Culver, Coby White, Jaxson Hayes
Arguably only one of those guys has been better than RJ.
Obi: Avdija, Jalen Smith, Vassell, Haliburton, Kira Lewis
2 are better than Obi, 3 are worse
Quickley: Pritchard, Azubuike, Jaden McDaniels, Flynn, Bane
1 better, 4 worse
Grimes: Hyland, Cam Thomas, Springer, Sharpe, Aldama
Still early, but I’d take Grimes over 4 of the 5
Rokas: Herb Jones, McBride, Thor, Dosunmu, Quetta
Incomplete
McBride: Thor, Dosunmu, Queta, Jared Butler, Wieskamp
McBride looks like a bust, but Dosunmu is the only one of the others doing anything
Sims: only two guys picked after him, neither one is anybody
Leon and Co. have been a solid C at drafting. They missed out on a few all-star level guys, which hurts, but they have always gotten one of the better guys at each slot. So they’re hitting singles. Now they need a home run in the next 2 years.
Oakman,
You know what really sucks about seeing your list? It makes me remember how I preferred Vassell over Obi, and the decision between the 2(in hindsight) would have been a conundrum either way. One one hand- if we had drafted Vassell, there’d be no need for the Fournier experiment. We’d also likely not have Grimes though and be stuck with no replacement for Randle. Or- more importantly, we would have a cost controlled PG who is really really good had we drafted Haliburton. On the other hand- looking for a replacement for Randle and then not moving him while his value was highest left us with confusion at both guard spots. At this point, I don’t know which one is worse because we do have Brunson, Grimes, and Quickley.
Just bad decisions all the way around. I guess the question is would Randle have been better for us with Haliburton at PG back then? It’s tough to digest looking back at it.
There is simply no way to look at the Knicks’ position and argue it’s similar to 20 other teams.
We’re 24th in net rating, so right off the bat we know we’re presently worse than the vast majority of teams.
Does anyone really want to try to argue with a straight face that we have a plethora of future assets makes that figure somehow misleading?
We’re slated to pick 11th, and it’s hard to see that budging much in either direction. We’re literally trying to offload our best rookie-scale contract player because we don’t think he’s worth paying. We have two $25M+ AAV contracts we probably couldn’t unload for free. We have some surplus draft capital, but its upside is hard capped via protection.
We need to do away with the “patience” narrative once and for all. Criticism of this front office has nothing to do with a lack of willingness to wait out a plan. If I was convinced Leon Rose was building a good team over the course of 5 years, fuck it, 10 years, I would be defending him every day.
It’s not that he’s not building a good team quickly enough. He’s just not building a good team, period. I don’t know where some people got the idea that time is inherently on our side. That demonstrates a very poor understanding of the way NBA contracts work. We’ve literally already seen multiple players *lose* value as a result of the passage of time. Two years ago we could probably get a couple of firsts for RJ Barrett, now that’d be the price to dump him (if we could dump him at all).
I’m not trying to depress people for the sake of it. I’m trying to make the point that we should be hoping for somewhat drastic moves from this front office, because the “muddling along” approach has gotten us stranded in dull mediocrity.
So while I’m not inherently against any trade up, trade out, etc. the idea that we *can’t* add three picks to the 24th best roster in the NBA is downright laughable. The roster sucks and the “plan” is even worse. Roster shakeups are almost inherently good at this point.
Ntilikina and Barrett haven’t budged you one bit off this idea eh
The conversation if the Knicks had even a marginally competent person senior on the org chart to Leon Rose.
MCPSOTOC: “Hey Leon — I was just reading the paper and it sounds like your plan is to trade for two stars now?”
Leon: “Yep, that’s right.”
MCPSOTOC: “But the plan last summer was to get one star and we gave it a great try but we got outbid. If we didn’t have enough to get one star, how are we going to get two stars?”
Leon: “Well, we’re going to trade all our young guys and get a low first or two and trade out of the first round every year so we can still tell teams we have multiple first rounders. Pretty sly, huh?”
MCPTOSOC: “Been great working with you Leon. We’ll send you the press release before we send it out.”
if only player evaluation were a simple “better/worse” binary instead of Haliburton adding like +5 MOV over Obi and the rest of the field
sure, you could truthfully say “Ja Morant is better than RJ” but it casually omits another fact: “Ja Morant is an All-NBA candidate and RJ is arguably the worst offensive starter in the league”
I always root for Knicks wins, but now even more so. At least then I’ll be temporarily spared from the automatic avalanche of repetitive posts about “Knicks purgatory”
seems i may not be the only human guilty of oft all or nothing type thinking…
championship or bust…being mediocre is simply existential torture…
If one is committed to framing this around “position,” the reality is that the Knicks “position” isn’t similar to a single other team, much less 20 other teams. No other team affirmatively tries to win with a roster this lame and every other team avoids purgatory like the plague.
The Knicks seemingly have no issue whatsoever shooting as hard as possible to get a play-in spot with whatever roster they feel gives them the best shot — no matter how old the roster is, no matter how bad the roster is, no matter how much the roster costs, no matter the future impact of the effort.
Not a single team in the NBA is in this “position.” Not one. The closest are probably the Hornets, Wiz, and Kings and they have better rosters at the top end beyond question, as well as better young talent.
In terms of the “we’re trading for two stars” fantasy, consider a hypothetical scenario in which the Orlando Magic say to themselves, “We’re going to try to recreate the awesome summer we had 20 years ago when we brought in Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. Maybe this time injuries won’t ruin it. If we have to trade a bunch of assets to do it, we’re in!!”
Now, which team has better assets in which to get that done. The Orlando Magic, with Paulo Banchero and Cole Anthony and Franz Wagner and two extra firsts on the way, one protected to 5, one protected to 4 and this years upcoming really high one in a stacked draft … or the New York Knicks?
Not even close, right?
So the challenge is to find a single team in the league who would have a lower chance of accomplishing this fantasy if they set their mind to it. (Teams who already have a star or two stars are obviously ineligible.) Doubt you can come up with one.
“…but I’m DEFINITELY not watching today if Brunson isn’t playing.”
Seeing more playing time for IQ and more data for McBride is a significant reason for watching, for me (plus Ja TV).
“At least then I’ll be temporarily spared from the automatic avalanche of repetitive posts about “Knicks purgatory”
This +1,000. Or to put it another way:
“It’s undebatable.”
Then please stop debating it. You’re like every other post for weeks now. BORING. BO-RING.
“No other team affirmatively tries to win with a roster this lame”
Sorry E, but you are entering drivel territory. You have a position which I respect…but come on.
Here’s the problem.
We have a “big three” of Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, and Jalen Brunson.
One of those guys is a legitimately good offensive player. One is a “meh” offensive player. The other one is a flaming pile of rat carcasses.
None of the three are good defensive players, all three are below average defenders.
All three are on the books through 2026. RJ Barrett is on the books until 2027, at which point he will be making $27.7M to stink up Madison Square Garden.
It would take a truly brilliant GM to extricate the Knicks from this situation of having a “big three” that’s locked up for a long time, doesn’t defend much, and is at best average collectively on the offensive end. You’re starting in a large hole if that’s your big three.
We don’t have a brilliant GM. We have the guy who created the problem in the first place. Leon Rose has a slightly different style of sucking as a GM compared to previous GMs, his is a more “death by a thousand cuts” kind of incompetence. But it’s incompetence nonetheless. We’re playing out the string. We’ll win some games here and there, and maybe 40-42 is more entertaining to some people than 37-45. Fair enough. Enjoy.
I’ll be over here waiting for the next schmuck to take over.
Idk about trading for two stars but they need to trade for one asap and just take it from there. It’s kinda sad that they don’t even have a Beal-type aging, first-option star.
Sadly, our next possible option will probably be AD. Others might be Siakam or DeRozan… not exactly great fits. Maybe Antman or LaMelo will want out if we get lucky, but that might take a bit longer.
took a quick break from Atlanta (only about 20 or so total show hours i think)…
one other thing i’m enjoying with the show is its soundtrack…
just finished up Peacemaker, i don’t really know what to make of that show…tough dialogue to listen to at times, particularly early in the season…
one thing though that really stuck out throughout the show – the soundtrack for the series…i mean i do like rock, even a little hair band/glam stuff at times – that soundtrack though was c-a-h-r-a-z-y…
holy shit…i think i could have enjoyably finished my time here on earth with never having experienced some of that “music”…
just kidding…no not really…
Well, he could’ve selected Queta and made (at least) one KBer happy! 😉 😛
I think our plan was all about RJ Barrett. Either by becoming a player we’d want to keep, a 2nd or 3rd option in a good team, or by helping us net a very good player in a trade. Right now, the plan looks to have failed miserably, he looks like trash and he’s untradable on his new contract. Why in hell did Leon gave him a contract that big without him proving that he deserves it? Until the trade deadline, i don’t think they have another choice than to keep playing RJ and hope he wakes up, or that all this was the “sickness”. I still have some hope that he can be a useful player, but he has to change his style of play, much in the way that Cam did too. He plays like he’s a superstar, and he’s nowhere near, so he has to play to his strengths and cut the rest. No iso plays, no to taking the best opponent on defense, and so on. And he has to play a lot less minutes, and take a lot less FGAs.
Given Dolan’s history, i’d say that Leon has the trade deadline to show that we’re on the right track, which i feel it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to do it. And then in the summer we’ll have a new schmuck in place.
On the bright side if Brunson’s out RJ will get plenty of extra chances to get work on his drives. Lookout JJJ the maple mamba is coming!
Also looking forward to plenty of classic JR high post action. Try this- mute the sound and play the Jaws theme while watching Randle pound the ball and slowly and obliviously dribble into the double team.
Actually Brunson’s a gamer and it’s a contusion not something he can make worse so my guess is he plays.
The Knicks (unintentionally) did what everyone on this board wants the Knicks to do. They (unintentionally) tanked and got a high-level (league perceived) can’t miss prospect (lol) then started to build a team around him that would peak when he did.
The one giant issue is that the pick they built around was RJ Barrett.
If RJ was the star who was promised, we’d be near contenders. We probably go all-in on Donovan Mitchell because a good defending RJ solidifies the defense enough to chance DMitch.
We did what people wanted. RJ just isn’t the guy. If people here believed he was (again, lol) then we’d have been on board.
“championship or bust…being mediocre is simply existential torture…”
Forget championship or bust, at this point I’d really just like to see a team that can win one (1) playoff series. We aren’t even close to that incredibly modest goal.
We can debate whether it’s worth it to go all in on a team that has, say, a conference finals ceiling. There are legitimate points on both sides of that and a lot of it comes down to subjective preference. Is *anyone* satisfied with a team with a play-in ceiling, though?
Also, I will repeat that I am sympathetic to the concern that we always revert back to the same topic (our bleak long-term position).
My response is: 1) today the topic was actually brought up by someone arguing our position is all well and good, this is the case fairly frequently and 2) gotta say, I don’t see many of the people complaining about this bringing up anything particularly novel.
Speaking for myself, I’m always happy to discuss draft prospects, the proper utilization of players on the current roster, etc. Be the change you want to see!
“The Knicks (unintentionally) did what everyone on this board wants the Knicks to do. They (unintentionally) tanked and got a high-level (league perceived) can’t miss prospect (lol) then started to build a team around him that would peak when he did.”
I think this is pretty far-fetched. Before RJ had played so much as a summer league game, the Knicks went on a spending spree to bring in Julius Randle, Marcus Morris, Bobby Portis, Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock, and Wayne Ellington. In other words they were absolutely determined to winning as many games as possible in RJ’s rookie season.
The next summer we were far more restrained, but still brought in Burks, Rose, and Nerlens for no reason other than maximizing wins.
I don’t think there’s a single person who advocates building through the draft that would’ve gone about it this way. Had we just not done any of that and instead used the cap space to take on bad contracts and spent the roster spots on UDFAs, 2nd rounders, etc. we would’ve had significantly higher picks in the 2020, 2021, and 2022 drafts, and almost certainly had more total picks to boot.
This of course would not have been a guarantee of success, but it’s impossible to argue it wouldn’t have been a better path than the one we took.
RJ sucking was only a death knell to our “plan” because we drew up a “plan” that required him to be a star before he had played a summer league game. That was dumb.
+1
“We have a “big three” of Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, and Jalen Brunson.”
The assumption here is that the Knicks are a finished product, but we both know that’s not the case. The Knicks are no more a finished product than approximately 25 other teams in the NBA. The target date for more serious contention is approximately 2-3 years from now.
You determine whether they have been successful or not at the end of a plan, not at the beginning or in the middle. There’s an obvious lack of patience here partly due to the single minded devotion to tanking despite the data suggesting that devotion is to a false god except in certain circumstances. I ignore that.
Longer term, Brunson is fine as one of the “big 3”. He was #2 in Dallas and they did really well. He’s #1 here and is still doing well.
I’m not a fan of Randle as our starting PF next to Mitch, but If you are thinking in terms of 2-3 years instead of the next 5 minutes, the fact that Randle might be tough to move at the deadline is not much of an issue. The Randle contract will become more movable as times passes if he keeps playing at this level and keeps his head on straight. That’s especially true if the cap rises significantly.
RJ is more problematical because previous management tanked hoping to get a #1 or #2 option. This management clearly sees him as less or they wouldn’t have made him available in a Mitchell trade, but they expect more than he’s showing now or they wouldn’t have paid him.
That hope is looking less promising right now.
On the flip side, the slump RJ is going through now is same kind of nonsense we’ve seen from him repeatedly. We know he’s better than this. The problem is the “net” of all his very streaky play is still much too low. He hasn’t taken the next step we needed even though for awhile it looked like he might. IMO, it’s too early to throw in the towel on him becoming a solid starter on a serious team, but if he doesn’t grow into a solid starter, it’s harder to get where we have to get.
In any event, the obvious goal is to use all the pick assets to add a BETTER player or players than we have now and create a new “big 3”. That would allow someone like RJ to drop off to 4th option while other players are developing, part of other trades, new players are drafted etc..
And please don’t say trading is not a plan. When you tank, you are planning to do well in the lottery, draft a star, keep him healthy and happy, and go from there. Good luck with that too. There are no guarantees on that either as we should know.
Personally, I don’t care where we finish this year. I am thinking 2-3 years out. I’m only concerned with seeing some development from a few of the young players and hoping they don’t go all in on a trade that’s not an ideal fit or for a good enough player. My ups and downs are related to those things, but it’s tempered by knowing we are in the middle of a plan and there’s still a load of time and potential upside. It’s far from over.
+1
Okay Noble, here’s one. What’s up with Miles.
I was super-high on the guy, which admittedly is partly my inability not to root for bench guys. But he was great to start his rookie season (summer league, pre-season) — pretty much on par with Grimes as a dead-eye shooter and top-end defender. It seemed a toss-up who was going to be better in the long run.
Then he couldn’t buy a bucket in the big league. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that playing the last 1:37 of a game meant he had to take one forced heave from the corner, if the ball came to him, to prove he belonged. But he stunk.
Which was especially weird as he tore it up in the G-League, and yes it was against inferior foe, but shooting is shooting and he canned them at an impressive rate, like scoring 30+ a few times.
He’s super-fun to watch on defense, still — that’s not a mirage. But I can’t figure out why his offense was/is missing, given that he’s shown flashes.
Again, one of the reasons for me to watch today. I’m not yet convinced the book is written for Mr. McBride. Which again, might be my penchant for amusing myself with the Ron Bakers of the world…
Two of our “big three” are negative assets on bad contracts that run forever.
No problem though! Gotta let this pot simmer a little more!
“And please don’t say trading is not a plan.”
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It’s far more a “tool to revise your roster” than it is a “plan.” It’s available to every single team in the league and, as we’ve discussed, essentially every team in the league is better situated to avail themselves of the tool than the Knicks are.
If Anthony Davis asks out, and the Magic want him, they have a way better chance than the Knicks to get him. If you ranked the teams on “assets available to get Anthony Davis” the Knicks would likely be last on the list.
The only caveat to that is the essentially, but not 110% entirely, false conceit that “Anthony Davis will demand to come to New York rather than condescend to play in Orlando.” In point of fact, Orlando has drawn more superstars over the past 25 years than the Knicks, has no state income tax and has a non-Trumpy owner. There isn’t a stitch of evidence that it’s a less appealing worksite for association stars than Jim Dolan’s MSG.
So let’s spin back to your terminology. Even if there’s no quibble over “trading is a plan,” “we’re going to be able to trade with worse assets because New York” is not a plan. It’s a fantasy. It literally just failed last summer, yet again.
“Then he couldn’t buy a bucket in the big league. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that playing the last 1:37 of a game meant he had to take one forced heave from the corner, if the ball came to him, to prove he belonged. But he stunk.”
It’s been a mystery to me too, because I thought his jump shot would be a reasonably decent fallback option for him if he could never become a penetration threat. His issues/hesitancy finishing were well documented in college, but he made it work with a very reliable jumper. Obviously his 3PT% was great, but he was even pretty good in the midrange (37% on non-rim 2PA as a sophomore).
A player who can’t really penetrate but is a lethal spot up shooter can probably be in an NBA rotation if he plays Deuce level defense.
Problem is, in the pros his jumper has abandoned him entirely. All of his shots look short to me but the important thing is they just aren’t going in, period.
The sample size is still fairly small so it might just be a matter of playing him more (and we should probably be doing that, though that question veers dangerously into “what should our goals for this season be” territory which is the kind of thing we’re trying to avoid here), but if he’s not a reliable jump shooter he’s not an NBA player.
… and it’s not only Spida. Kevin Durant demanded a trade last summer. Speculative offers from at least three teams were pretty widely reported. The Knicks, of course, were not one of them because they had no chance whatever of competing with the packages on offer — and that was before RJ’s regression and bulging new contract.
Were the Knicks ever even mentioned as even the slightest possibility to get Kevin Durant?
(And if you really want to be precise about the lay of the land here, Leon’s laughable “we gonna trade for two stars” strategy was right there in front of him literally last summer. Kevin Durant and Donovan Mitchell. Both available. He had zero chance of getting the pair.)
“The Knicks are no more a finished product than approximately 25 other teams in the NBA.”
This is totally meaningless. No roster is a “finished product.” Even the very best teams experience roster turnover. The meaningful question is what opportunities for improvement are available to us?
Free agency is pretty much entirely out of the discussion for a variety of reasons, no need to harp on it.
We can improve through the draft, though it’s a little weird for you to die on that hill given that you also think we shouldn’t make 3 picks because our current roster is simply too good. In any event, history says our “build a contender with an army of 11th picks” idea faces long odds, and that’s if Leon Rose even makes the picks.
Yes, we can trade for talent upgrades, but as we saw in the Mitchell discussions serious upgrades will cost us literally everything because Leon Rose has been unable to accumulate an asset intriguing enough to lessen the cost.
I am well aware that we can still get insanely lucky with one of these paths, but that has nothing to do with the work of Leon Rose. It can happen to any team at any time.
“The target date for more serious contention is approximately 2-3 years from now.”
Got it, so if in 3 seasons we haven’t won 50 games, you will say “I thought I was right about Leon Rose having a legitimate plan to get us to contention, but I was wrong.”
I’ll mark my calendar!
Joe Tsai said they wouldn’t trade Durant to the Knicks under any circumstance. So there was never any reason to discuss it.
Also, that never went anywhere with any team.
***Given Dolan’s history, i’d say that Leon has the trade deadline to show that we’re on the right track***
Phil Jackson’s 11 rings were supposed to make the allure of The Garden so powerful that a free agent would actually come here. Then Aldridge and Monroe chose the allurless markets of San Antonio and Milwaukee instead.
Leon Rose, on the other hand, targeted his free agent and got him to NY, and hasn’t lolknicks the team back to the Stone Age in the process, so he probably isn’t on the Phil Jackson timetable for being terminated.
I think Brunson was a good signing, and Rose deserves credit. No other team was pulling him away from Dallas. My only problem with the signing is that I think Dejounte Murray is a much better player, and it seemed that Rose didn’t even try to get Murray when he could have because he’d already made his bed with Brunson in it.
Were the Knicks ever even mentioned as even the slightest possibility to get Kevin Durant?
Is this your supporting evidence? Look at the articles as to why. Looks like Noble has replaced you as my preferred counsel when I sue MSG for negligence
Joe Tsai said they wouldn’t trade Durant to the Knicks under any circumstance. So there was never any reason to discuss it.
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Right, but hard to see how that doesn’t still “count.” The owner of the “star who demands a trade to New York” might do the same thing.
I like JB and he was a good get by Leon. He’s an excellent player.
That said, he doesn’t really qualify as a “star” to Leon since Leon by his own accord still “needs” to trade for two more. (And in point of fact, though he’s excellent, he really isn’t a “star” in the “trade for two stars” sense.)
Brunson is available tonight…
Jerami Grant with 2 FT’s tonight vs 28 against us
Huh….
Quetta apparently dominated Wiseman
https://twitter.com/draftdummies/status/1596744506493505536?s=46&t=7E6xRwl3iK0EUv4Cn7DYVg
Good news. Given the state of the team, i think i don’t want to know how the team looks without Brunson. 😛
Brunson is STARTING.
Thanks, Owen. I still think Queta can play in the NBA, i just don’t know if he’ll have a chance to prove himself.
Except he didn’t say that last part, though.
Look, I think we all know the “New York” market advantage is a thing of the past for awhile (and I believe Dolan has played a part in that among other factors). That said, beating the drum of “our assets are undesirable” is either untrue or unproven. Why the gloom? Bc one team was in a better position asset and win-curve wise (as JK47) than us to trade for for a guy most of us felt wouldn’t move the needle enough for what we would’ve had to give up?