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NBA Detroit Pistons game vs. New York Knicks: Time, TV channel Detroit Free Press
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Pistons vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest Hoops Hype
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Knicks must reverse Madison Square Garden trend to be taken seriously New York Post
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Ja Morant’s bizarre comments about poor officiating don’t add up Daily Knicks
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Knicks: Julius Randle remains upbeat despite OT loss to Grizzlies Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 4:20:32 PM
NBA Exec: Knicks Would “No Question” Move Evan Fournier, But … Sports IllustratedKnicks fans’ first look at Jalen Brunson comes with intertwined connection New York Post What should New York Knicks fans expect from Jalen Brunson’s first season? Hoops HabitEx-Mav Brunson plays pivotal role in Knicks loss vs. Grizzlies The Dallas Morning NewsThe Newest Knicks Star Set Records The Cold WireView Full Coverage on Google News
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Jr. Knicks Affiliate Clinic Series Presented by PM Pediatric Care NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 1:25:20 PM
Knicks Find Hope From Unlikely Name In Season Opening Loss To Grizzlies Sports IllustratedKnicks Fans Love Cam Reddish’s Breakout in Season Opening Loss vs. Grizzlies Bleacher ReportCam Reddish’s revelatory night could force Knicks into tough decision New York Post Cam Reddish shines in Knicks opener OT loss AMNYKnicks’ Cam Reddish makes strong impression in explosive season debut Empire Sports MediaView Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 1:02:00 PM
New York Knicks vs. Detroit Pistons odds, tips and betting trends | October 21 USA TODAY Sportsbook Wire
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Last Chance for Special Knicks Betting Promo: Bet $5, Win $150 + NBA League Pass Free Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 11:03:00 AM
Let’s Enjoy The First Ridiculous Ja Morant Highlight Of The Season Defector
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 10:00:00 AM
ESPN’s Zach Lowe writes what Knicks fans have been thinking about Obi Toppin Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 20, 2022 9:15:53 AM
Grizzlies 115, Knicks 112 (OT): “Holy Cam Reddish” Posting and Toasting
57 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.10.21)”
The Lakers are just the tip of the iceberg. There are a bunch of teams with at least conference finals aspirations who are going to disappoint and are going to be looking to either retool by the trade deadline or rebuild. In that sense, the Knicks are in a good position. We have the depth to lose a piece or two in a trade for either an asset (like the Lakers’ picks) or a consolidation trade for someone better than who we currently have if we include an asset or two.
Ont thing that is unsettling for me is that I really LIKE our players and the apparent chemistry of our young “core.” The problem is, it really isn’t a young core, is it? Some of these guys have to go. There’s really no road to getting better without that happening, is there? It’s easy to lose touch with the “It’s a business” part of the rebuilding equation.
Donnie, make sure I get my share of the royalties for that song, I’m on a fixed income…
Russ went 0-for-ELEVEN?!?!!? Good lord. Calls to mind Bill Walton’s infamous “Marv, it’s not how many shots you make, it’s how many you take!” call from many decades ago.
Sounds like the Knicks have found the perfect moment to buy low on Russell Westbrook….
I didn’t notice anybody answering yesterday’s hypothetical, so let me try one more time:
If Cam improbably continues to ball out between now and whenever Grimes is healthy enough to play, who gets bumped from the rotation for him?
Obi, with Cam becoming a smallball four like he was in overtime after Julius fouled out?
Grimes, losing his spot due to injury?
Fournier, getting put in the dungeon despite his big contract and the team’s desire to move him?
Quickley, who seems off to yet another very slow start to the season?
Or Rose, who played very little both in preseason and in the opener, and may just be old now, even if he is Thibs’ favorite Thibs Guy? (Or maybe second-favorite, after Taj?)
Supposedly, the Lakers are refusing to add any salary past this season because they think they’re signing Kyrie this summer.
Obviously, it’ll be Obi. Thibs clearly doesn’t like/trust him and will use any excuse to bump him from the lineup.
It’s gotta be Grimes or Obi
– Thibs will never not play Rose
– Maybe Obi? But Cam can’t board
– Grimes? But he’s a coach favorite
– IQ is too talented
– Fournier makes too much $$$
Maybe it’s still Cam or it’s an 11 man rotation
This is what I think they *should* do. Nobody is going to give crap to the Lakers for Russ & 2 mediocre picks.
Even if they manage to whiff on Kyrie chances are they get more out of FA than dumping Russ’s corpse.
What does Russ & two 1sts really get you?
As Macri pointed out this morning, Deuce had a couple of strong games when everyone was out with injury/Covid, and went right back on the shelf as soon as the team got healthy. The difference is that Deuce is a second round pick with a low salary and ceiling, where Cam is both someone with the potential to be great (even if he seems incredibly unlikely to get there) as well as someone the team will have to make a financial decision on soon.
And maybe I’m giving Thibs too much credit, but I don’t know if it’s a trust thing with Obi this year, so much as 1)Randle was playing relatively close to the idealized version of himself, and was aiding the comeback, and 2)Obi is coming off an injury and may not be entirely right yet. All the reporting in the offseason implied repeatedly that Obi had finally entered Thibs Guy-dom, or had at least become Thibs Guy-adjacent.
I’d bet on Cam staying in more than Deuce if only because Cam didn’t play the G-League level Rockets who were also missing their starters.
Also the pedigree
Also he just looks better than Deuce did that game
Also the FO investment
Also the contract
Nothing in Cam’s game seemed sustainable. He has a history of not shooting 3s very well, career 32.7%, and some of those drives had such a high degree of difficulty that it’s hard to see him finishing them consistently.
The team as a whole looked good. Brunson adds a lot and the offense was well organized, unselfish, even creative here and there. The defense was good, although they didn’t coordinate well enough on some possessions, which lead to opens shots for Memphis.
I think Obi and Grimes would lose minutes together.
I mean, if Reddish plays anything like he did on Wednesday that would be quite a high class problem to have.
Nice work on that last thread, Donnie. Not sure I ever told you but I did recently add Songs in the Key of Life to my vinyl collection after all that time you spent making me feel dumb for never listening to it. I almost wore it out in the first week.
I think Thibs would go for a 11 man rotation. But we know the probability of having all 11 guys available and playing well, right? Cam sucking again is highly likely, the same for a DRose injury, not to mention that we don’t know if Grimes is back soon and how will he be, after this period out.
It’s silly because its only one game but Obi’s net rating left a lot to be desired. Notice Cam’s rating for his best game as a Knick. https://i.redd.it/hqvmuuiqg4v91.png
The scenario where Cam’s balls out for 8-10 games and forces a lineup disruption is statistically impossible.
Going to the game tonight, if Cam goes off again I’m trying to figure out what the crowd chant will be? Cam..Cam…Cam just doesn’t work as well as Obi…Obi….Obi
Maybe instead of “overrated” “Unincinerated”?
Donnie, just want to say I’m honored to have helped inspire a song by one of my musical heroines. Well done, and fingers crossed she goes for it.
If not, perhaps you can pitch it to JD and the Straightshots…
Thibs acts like he actually values three point shooting. So I’m guessing McBride and Obi lose minutes if Cam earns more minutes. By the way, Cam’s career three point percentage is better than Obi’s and preseason and the Memphis game didn’t suggest anything has changed in that respect.
Grimes’ situation is annoying and worrysome,
if the issue is plantar fasciatis it could linger for a long time and it’s easily reaggravated, waiting to let him heal for good is the best way to go, he’s young and under contract for a while…
In the meantime we can relax about who’s gonna lose minutes to Cam.
And he needs to show the last game wasn’t a fluke.
I tend to agree with NYC Director’s assessment (in yesterday thread) about him, but let’s see…
We need to win the next 3 games.
Even “good Cam,” if he exists, has a troubling lack of secondary skills. He doesn’t rebound or pass, and the jury is out on him as a defender. Seems a little slight to really make it as a small ball stretch 4.
He’s *sort of* what we need in that he’s an athletic wing, and “good Cam” is a good three point shooter so that’s an added bonus. If he keeps up the good play perhaps the solution will present itself.
hey it’s friday…yay…have fun at the game d-mar 🙂
I think if Cam plays well for an extended period of time (this is a huge if, based on his career so far) then he would take some of Obi’s minutes when Grimes comes back. I believe they would go with a few more shooters on the floor (Cam and Grimes) rather then benching IQ or Grimes. But, maybe it will be based on matchups. Either way, I want to see Cam have a good streak of games before thinking he deserves minutes.
Just caught up on last night’s thread and learned how one remains an elite poster on a Knicks forum despite watching zero Knicks games
Cam’s length seems like it would help him to be a good defender, but can his BBIQ/motor facilitate that?
He seems to run well on the break, so maybe paired with Obi and Q and all, the Knicks could configure the second unit into some sort of neo-SSOL monster.
I guess I kind of struggle to envision what “good Cam” looks like, which is the same problem I have with RJ.
He’s a shitty rebounder for his size and has no interest whatsoever in playmaking, so offensively we’re looking purely at scoring.
His defense has been more theoretical than anything else but I suppose I can buy the tools are there.
If he were to Morey-fy his shot selection maybe there would be enough there to justify playing time on most teams. You could do a lot worse than an efficient scorer who can at least credibly guard opposing wings. It’s not even a relevant question unless he’s willing to cut out most of the midrange garbage.
By the way, this is another situation that reveals the tensions of the “hybrid” model. I support giving Cam extended run to see if he can get anything going, but I also think it’s quite likely doing so makes us more likely to lose games.
That’s a risk I’m more than willing to take because I’m skeptical as to the value of wins for this team, but does Thibs feel the same way? Does the front office?
It’s just not clear where we draw the lines on any of this stuff. Who decides that RJ can shoot us out of multiple games but Obi gets yanked for missing a single rotation? There doesn’t seem to be a coherent decision making process.
I think the pre-game poll should definitely be something that takes the measure of our Cam hopes.
RJ is the golden child and I have never quite understood why but it seems unlikely to change.
Clearly Thibs calls the shots on playing time except maybe for RJ, since they made him the face of the franchise after they passed on Mitchell. I’m glad they passed on Mitchell, but I think signing Barrett was another unforced error. I hope he can live up to the contract.
This is the seventh youngest team in the league with only one player over 30. This is a big year for evaluating who stays and who goes with potentially 3 first rounders next year. There will be enough playing time to go around for everyone except maybe Deuce and Sims. The fact that the games mean something rather than this being a tank year is beneficial. Even young teams have to eventually turn the corner and start trying to win at some point.
I wish I could have bet on Grimes injury. I knew they were full of crap from the first week it was reported. I don’t know why they feel the need to lie, but they do.
What an iron man!
Cam has actually put up good stats for the Knicks from day 1.
That’s the Porzingis-est thing that ever Porzingised. He almost made it through warmups without getting hurt!
If that guy ever could stay healthy enough to just stay on the court, and not always be working his way back from some injury, he would probably be a pretty good player. But you gotta be able to make it through the warmup of the first game without getting hurt, broh.
KP really is the unicorn. A fully healthy version of him doesn’t exist but sometimes you can tape a cardboard tube to a horse’s head and play make believe. But as soon as the horse runs the tape gives out
I have had an Eryka Badu “Tyrone” earworm for the last couple of hours. Thanks guys.
Maybe Hornacek was right about KP.
He also seems to be an a-hole at best, and a cretin at worst. So there’s that aspect as well “holding him back”.
We have no idea what Cam will become beyond the fact that he’s been inching forward every year despite all the injuries. I guarantee he’s going to have nights where he looks like he did in the pre season and nights like game one, but the net of it all should continue inching forward.
In the mean time, Thibs wants to win. Whoever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning will get the minutes. It could even vary. Some nights it might be dependent on the specific matchup, sometimes how the player is playing that night, sometimes it could be what’s going on in practice. The one thing that’s is 100% certain is that Thibs will do what he thinks gives him the best chance to win.
“The one thing that’s is 100% certain is that Thibs will do what he thinks gives him the best chance to win.”
I’m 100% certain if this were true, we would’ve seen way, way more games with RJ Barrett glued to the bench over the past few seasons.
Porzingis would still be our best player if we didn’t trade him for trash.
KP demanded a trade. I don’t think he is better than Randle or Brunson either, all things considered.
You did see the part about how he literally got hurt during the warmup of game 1, then used that as an excuse for his slow, shitty play, correct? The guy is a giant walking (well, hobbling, I guess) punchline.
“I’m 100% certain if this were true, we would’ve seen way, way more games with RJ Barrett glued to the bench over the past few seasons.”
That’s because you are a very smart lawyer that’s still doesn’t understand how individual skillsets are important to lineup construction and how team construction can impact individual stats . 🙂
Seriously, he played because he was the best option on a poorly constructed mediocre basketball team.
“You did see the part about how he literally got hurt during the warmup of game 1, then used that as an excuse for his slow, shitty play, correct? The guy is a giant walking (well, hobbling, I guess) punchline.”
He hurt his ankle in pre season when he stepped on a players foot. He skipped a couple of pre season games and must have tweaked it again.
We know he’s injury prone. If you go back into the history of this blog I was one of the first people to say that and was criticized for it because they were contact injuries. We still traded him for less than he was worth to move Hardaway and Lee and he’d still be the best player on this team….which of course is problematical.
We’re still arguing about Kristaps Porzingis’ trade value after he was literally salary dumped and sent packing out of Dallas for being a chronically injured malcontent. I think we made out okay overall.
“Seriously, he played because he was the best option on a poorly constructed mediocre basketball team.”
No one actually believes this is true. I actually haven’t even heard anyone else even pretend it’s true, as you’re doing now. That RJ Barrett was/is bad but continues to play for (extremely justified) developmental reasons is the widespread consensus.
On the off chance that Thibs really does think playing RJ Barrett and his .515 TS% 35 minutes a night gives him the best chance of winning, we need to first fire him and then get him some help.
Re: Porzinigis, there could not possibly be a better example of the free market speaking. He got banished to basketball purgatory in favor Davis Bertans and Spencer Dinwiddie. It’s game, set, match on that debate.
“You did see the part about how he literally got hurt during the warmup”
It sounds like it was actually the pregame huddle.
most superficial comment of the day – it was his appearance which first unsettled me a bit about KP…i won’t get in to details, but, he resembles a certain archetype (jugend) to me…the situation with that gal at his spot in NY sort of cemented that notion…
okay, think i’m done sharing enough small minded thoughts…
LOL, KP has never even sniffed second team all-NBA. Randle had a bad year last year but he is way better than KP. Better scorer, rebounder, passer and defender (KP isn’t that great of a defender anymore bc of all his injuries). Oh, and Randle ACTUALLY PLAYS IN BASKETBALL GAMES.
KP is not better than Brunson either.
KP and RJ? It’s a wash?
Mitch is better than KP. Fuck, Hart is probably better than KP.
Obi and IQ…probably better than KP.
KP is better than Cam though! Good job KP!
Being able to play is actually a huge part of how “good” you are. If you never play and therefore your team can’t make the playoffs because you’re on the bench…then ya kind of fucking suck.
Or if you can’t play and your team can make the playoffs without you but then gets all screwed up when they play with you because they don’t have any chemistry with you CAUSE YOU NEVER PLAY…then you kind of suck.
Maybe we should see what Brandon Roy and Greg Oden are up to. THEY GOT A LOT OF POTENTIAL.
Being injury prone means ya suck. Not being able to play in basketball games you are being paid to play in means you suck.
I mean, there has literally not been a moment where KP was discussed on this blog where everyone didn’t mention they we’re worried about injury Strat.
He was good last year and I think he will be good but not great for the rest of the time he is healthy in the NBA. Not worth the max though.
Just to get ahead of this one too, I am worried about VW getting hurt, both because he is so freakishly built and also because he is so awesome.
They’re playing RJ because he’s young, has an excellent attitude and work ethic, rebounds, passes, and plays defense well and — most importantly — possesses the rarest, and therefore most in-demand skill in the association, the ability to get good shots off.
He doesn’t make enough of said shots, which yes, contributes to non-winning basketball. The hope is that eventually, by playing through it and learning, one day more of the shots will go in and the rare skill he possesses will fully flourish.
It’s a tough dilemma to be sure. But there’s nothing really confusing about it. We’ll see how it goes. There’s no chance he’s going to be benched. He might be traded for another more-efficient usage driver. IMO, he’s got this season and next to get more efficient. At that point, he either needs to scale back the chucking or he needs to make more shots. If neither happens, it’s time to move on.
As to the so-called double standard with Obi, that one’s simple. Obi can’t generate offense on his own like RJ can. The proliferation of data and computing power has from time to time alienated fans and analysts from simple fundamental truths, the primary one being the rarity and importance of being able to generate offense on one’s own.
I do agree with Esq that RJ chucking is inconsistent with the so-called “hybrid” model. In large part, I’ve concluded that they don’t really have a hybrid model, but instead are mixing and matching and lurching on the fly with no consistent philosophy behind the episodic whims. “Hybrid model” is a term we’ve put on it, in service of rationalizing and systematizing it.
If you’re going to let RJ chuck and you aren’t sure he can do it efficiently or even remotely efficiently, well at that point you sure shouldn’t be merc-ing up the rest of the roster.
Rare time I fully agree with E on the RJ comment. In a way I see RJ as the antithesis of Cam—Cam has a habit of taking difficult shots and looks good when he makes them, really bad when he doesn’t while RJ has a habit of taking good shots and looks bad when he misses them, ok when he makes them. You want RJ on the first unit, Cam on the second.
Cam doesn’t sell me based on a single game performance. He played like his hair was on fire. Is it always? I want him on the 3rd team, meaning the bench, until we need him again. Message to Cam: “Don’t be Elija Moore”
KP sucks. Period. He’s good but thinks too highly of himself and can’t stay on the court. I’m glad he’s someone else’s problem.
RJ is 22 years old. He had a bad game. We need him to find his 3-point stroke to lift this team. Keep on chucking them RJ!
E, I’m not sure what part of what I said you think you’re rebutting. I said their approach with RJ is “extremely justified” because I concur that his potential greatly exceeds his production to the point in his career, and it’s worth doing whatever we can to try to unlock that potential.
I also said that that’s inconsistent with trying to maximize wins, which is what just about all of our other decisions (e.g. signing Fournier, not caring much about Obi’s development, etc.) seem to be aimed at achieving.
I concluded that this inconsistency presents an incoherence of sorts.
It seems like I said everything you just said, except you framed your posts as at least partially in opposition to mine.
I’m struggling to grasp how “getting repeatedly stuffed at the rim” qualifies as “the ability to get good shots off.”
Otherwise he’s quite skilled at standing in the corner and shooting kick-outs, some of which he makes. Which is also a skill Obi has.
And by the way, we saw Obi doing a range of stuff at the end of last year when they actually let him play. I’m not sure he’s quite the offensive zero outside of fast breaks as people are making him out to be. He’s not as experienced there as Randle, which may or may not be a good thing depending on one’s perspective…
The NBA scrap heap is littered with bad shooters who were good at getting off good shots…
As far as I’m concerned, the KP trade wasn’t a bust (although it certainly wasn’t perfect) because we used the cap space we opened to sign Randle. So in a way, we traded KP for Randle. Overall that looks like a good thing.
oops wrong thread