2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ Can We Please Just End This 10th Seed Thing Tonight?

The Knicks are in Charlotte, attempting to keep their hopes of a fruitless quest for the 10th seed alive.

Let’s hope it ends tonight, but you know the Knicks are winning this game to keep it going.

Let’s go!

215 replies on “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ Can We Please Just End This 10th Seed Thing Tonight?”

Looking forward to this Obi and Sims frontcourt getting some burn. Credit to Thibs for not just chucking Taj in as the default starter (although I presume he is still playing 30+ minutes).

there have been some unispiring starting backcourts in the last 40 years but this fournier/burks ranks right up there with the worst of them…good god…

Russia could lob a couple strategic nuclear weapons the US’s way and we could rest assured that still standing in the wreckage would be Alec Burks as Thibs’s point guard.

I continue to get the impression that Obi Toppin can do some things he often doesn’t try to do because he doesn’t want to get yanked

thenoblefacehumper:
I continue to get the impression that Obi Toppin can do some things he often doesn’t try to do because he doesn’t want to get yanked

Agreed, it would be nice to get an extended look…

It seems wild there were no takers for Burks at the deadline. I know the PG Burks has largely not been great, but surely there was a contender that could use a guy like him on the wing?

Fred Katz
@FredKatz
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1m
Knicks are moving wayyy quicker than usual offensively.

If we could just not count those pesky 4th quarters we’d be right in the thick of the playoff race

This was a nice stretch of basketball…

Sims has very quick feet, he could become a really good defender…

I feel less worried about the possibility of losing Mitch with Sims on this team. Guy can get it done on both ends (and can set a screen).

Also….HOLY SHIT OBI!!

Isaiah Thomas had his hip resurfaced, that might be a first in the NBA…the guy at HSS who did it did my wife’s hip replacement…

We’re paying Julius Randle a lot to be the 2nd best power forward on the roster huh?

It’s early here and I just tuned in. Why isn’t Mitch playing?

cybersoze:
Grimes is shooting a lot worse post-injury

And moving slower too…

We’ve become a bit too trigger happy and can’t get a DREB to save our life…

Z-man:
If we could just get some defensive boards we’d be up 40…

yeah…fucking plumlee is dominating…what a goon..

It’s early here and I just tuned in. Why isn’t Mitch playing?

Sore back on a back-to-back.

Oops. Thought the start was 7:30. Kids getting burn AND we’re ahead? Nice.

pepper:
duece pointed to Raven in the stands after that jumper..

Let’s chip in and gofundme GHenman season tix….

It’s not surprising they are shooting lots of threes and not rebounding well with the lineup they have out there and also often having Taj on the perimeter a lot.

Deuce has a weird running motion, it’s like he doesn’t lift his knees and his feet stay close to the ground…

RJ shot 17 foul shots last night and I still feel like he gets no respect from the refs. That was an obvious and 1.

Now that I’ve seen Fournier and Obi I understand what watching Stockton and Malone was like

Doesn’t matter who’s the single season or career 3pt record holder Allan Houston will always be the greatest shooter in Knicks history.

I’ve never seen an NBA player before that moves like Obi. It’s really strange looking the way he hunches over.

BigBlueAL:
Doesn’t matter who’s the single season or career 3pt record holder Allan Houston will always be the greatest shooter in Knicks history.

bill bradley may disagree with that assessment

“The position we’re in, they’re all must-have games,” Thibodeau said. “But you’re not eliminated until you’re eliminated.”

d-mar:
I’ve never seen an NBA player before that moves like Obi.It’s really strange looking the way he hunches over.

Yeah, he has the ambiance of one of those tripods on war of the worlds…

Our backcourt/wing players are generally bad on long rebounds, Fournier always moves in slow motion…

Halftime show is babes… league pass was doing a solid but now they moved to msg halftime crew

pepper: “But you’re not eliminated until you’re eliminated.”

Was he responding to whether he’d be coaching next year?

pepper: bill bradley may disagree with that assessment

As a young kid when I started watching the Knicks the best shooters were Trent Tucker and Kiki Vandeweigh. Hubert Davis came along and he was easily the best shooter until Houston was signed.

My thing with H20 was he wasn’t just a spot up shooter like Tucker, Hubert and someone like Steve Novak. Houston hit jumpers from everywhere and usually with a guy in his face. His degree of difficulty shots was similar to Melo. Houston had the sweetest looking jumper I’ve ever seen.

Marcus Smart with 9 assists …in the first quarter

The Celtics are just destroying teams. It’s highly annoying.

I only saw the second quarter, but it looked like Charlotte wasn’t defending threes well. Besides our three point shooting reverting to the mean I predict Charlotte will defend threes a lot harder in the second half.

LaMelo is 20 years old. Like I can’t guarantee you he’s going to be an all star but he’s got an enormous amount of talent. He’s absolutely the best 20 year old PG in the NBA.

BigBlueAL: As a young kid when I started watching the Knicks the best shooters were Trent Tucker and Kiki Vandeweigh.Hubert Davis came along and he was easily the best shooter until Houston was signed.

My thing with H20 was he wasn’t just a spot up shooter like Tucker, Hubert and someone like Steve Novak.Houston hit jumpers from everywhere and usually with a guy in his face.His degree of difficulty shots was similar to Melo.Houston had the sweetest looking jumper I’ve ever seen.

It’s hard to believe how many minutes he played…no wonder his knee gave out.

d-mar:
Marcus Smart with 9 assists …in the first quarter

The Celtics are just destroying teams. It’s highly annoying.

And they are actually playing the team Danny Ainge is CEO of.

d-mar:
I’ve never seen an NBA player before that moves like Obi.It’s really strange looking the way he hunches over.

Obi sitting on the bench for two years can’t help.

The Hornets reeeeeeally need a center. It’s not a great look to get eviscerated by Jericho Sims.

Houston would have really been something if we understood shot selection back then.

Z-man: It’s hard to believe how many minutes he played…no wonder his knee gave out.

Anthony Mason in his final season as a Knick played all 82 games averaging 42.2 minutes per game. Next season with Charlotte played 73 games averaging 43.1 minutes per game!

4 years later in his only season with the Miami Heat at 34 yo he played 80 games averaging 40.7 minutes per game. To say it’s a different era in the NBA is an understatement.

They’re crushing us on the boards,
If our percentages regress to the mean this game is open…

“Doesn’t matter who’s the single season or career 3pt record holder Allan Houston will always be the greatest shooter in Knicks history.”

I’ll just point out that Miles “Deuce” McBride is still shooting 1,000% (over the last two games…).

Big part of all these blown double digit leads is the Knicks start missing wide open 3pters left and right.

Plumlee’s shooting lefty FTs on purpose and they look like a middle schooler…

I know everyone has said it, but this team really is so much more enjoyable to watch without Randle.

Fournier’ s record breaking three stole CHA momentum, he has 7 assists… and a lot of open bricks…
Solid game by RJ for now…

DRed: I’m saying there’s a chance

I hear there’s a chance it might be cloudy in Seattle tomorrow…

Raven: Knicks with 26 assists, end of the third quarter (averaging 21.5 per game).

And no iso sh*t fadeaway

Somehow I don’t think Deuce McBride was utterly humiliating himself in practice all season

thibs is pissed…grimes left Thomas to double martin…deuce did the same thing earlier on rozier in the corner….and thibs ripped him a new one as well…thibs has no patience for those bonehead plays

pepper:
I feel bad for Isaiah thomas…he really sucks now

Rule number one, never talk about an opponent who’s not shooting well… 🙂

We have centers we could trade to the hornets, but I don’t know who we could reasonably get in return unless they decide their time is now and trade draft picks to us.

Knick fan not in NJ:
We have centers we could trade to the hornets, but I don’t know who we could reasonably get in return unless they decide their time is now and trade draft picks to us.

Maybe they want last year’s most improved player?

First Burks then Fournier, the veterans with a couple of not so smart shots down the stretch…

I kinda miss BBA’s “this would be the worst loss of the season” posts…

Max, agreed, somehow we went from taking threes and dunks to mid range shots.

Announcers know the Knicks so well that we’re “clinging” to an 11 point lead 😉

Z-man:
I kinda miss BBA’s “this would be the worst loss of the season” posts…

It’s now this would be the worst win of the season.

I give Fournier a lot of shit (and was too slow to comment earlier on a pair of botched plays), but he’s actually guarded Ball pretty well in the second half.

Raven:
I give Fournier a lot of shit (and was too slow to comment earlier on a pair of botched plays), but he’s actually guarded Ball pretty well in the second half.

The island beckons …

The problem with RJ is that he was too efficient. Now he’s going to draw double teams and have to learn to make the right pass. 🙂

Obi leading the team in minutes (for the first time ever?) = Knicks by 15 😉

KB Apprentice:
Obi leading the team in minutes (for the first time ever?) = Knicks by 15 😉

Maybe it’s not a Randle thing and just a PF thing

CHA isn’t exactly elite competition but this young crew certainly leaves you wondering what could have been. They’re talented, work their assess off and just fun to watch. We could have made a year’s worth of progress playing them, getting them to gel, and maybe helped reset the Knicks Brand. But instead we wasted a year and put the fan base though another year of maddening frustration. So Knicksy! This is what we will continue to get as long as Dolan is owner. He’s a curse on this team.

I’m kind of serious, KB tradesmiths. Randle + Mitch could get us what from where?

My Wi-Fi exploded with 3 minutes to go… 🙂

Heartwarming win, solid game from everyone (yes, even Fournier).

Cyber, you’re too kind to say it but I’m not: fuck Vaccaro

🙂

Six assists for Obi is nice to see, I think he was supposed to be a playmaker in college

Hawks lost to the Pistons!? Only 5 games behind… maybe if we go 7-2 and the Hawks go 2-7, we can still make it! 😀

Max: Heartwarming win, solid game from everyone (yes, even Fournier).

When guys move, Fournier is kind of good at assists.

cybersoze: When guys move, Fournier is kind of good at assists.

Fournier has said as much in every post game interview, “This game is easy if you move the damn ball.”

Of course the Hornets are basically the Generals on D, but passing is passing is passing is passing against anyone. Just do it.

Obi cant shoot but neither can Randle so i dont see a reason to prefer the latter.

Before we get too excited about anything, CHA’s defense was piss poor and we set a season high for made 3’s. But be that as it may, we still had 30 assists on 43 made FGs. So much more fun to watch without, well, you know…

CTRL F Obi

i can’t believe i missed the Obi game.

Maybe he can play? Maybe don’t stick him in the corner all game.

As Raven said, Fournier’s defense on Ball in the second half was a surprise.
Every player on the floor played with energy and selflessness tonight, the ball moved very well and that explain seven players in double figure (and one with 9) and three with 6-plus assists…

Does this make any sense with Sims doing the job at backup?

Noel, Dallas’s first rounder, and filler for Brunson?

We are worst in the league in assists. Tonight the ball moved and we got 30. Imo Randle NOT being on the floor is a factor in that. He gets assists, but he stops the ball and throws up trash too often when ball movement would have gotten a better shot. Imo Ball stoppers are an under appreciated negative because there’s no real commonly used stat for it. It’s kind of like the way spacing used to be under appreciated because there wasn’t a clear measurable stat.

Wally just dropped that E4 is league top five in made threes for the season and has the best percentage among those five guys. Evan Fournier is not the problem with this Knicks team.

DudeInKnicksTown:
I’m not well enough to debate this. I don’t agree with losing games on purpose.

If we can beat the Hornets like this you can get healthy too.

Deeefense!!:
Does this make any sense with Sims doing the job at backup?

Noel, Dallas’s first rounder, and filler for Brunson?

Yes

KB Apprentice:
Wally just dropped that E4 is league top five in made threes for the season and has the best percentage among those five guys. Evan Fournier is not the problem with this Knicks team.

Fournier is a very good but streaky shooter, an above average creator with good BB-IQ and a usually willing (sometimes lackadaisical) but athletically very challenged defender.

He’s easily targeted on defense but you can survive if he’s the only weak link.
Alas if you add another easy target like Kemba plus this year Randle’s disastrous effort, your defense explodes and you ended up with a season like this one…

But in the right system, with ball and players movement (i.e. the French National Team) he’s a nice player to have.

KevinR: Obi cant shoot but neither can Randle so i dont see a reason to prefer the latter.

8-11 and 50% from 3?

I’m partly yanking your chain, but at the same time, that’s nicely efficient.

Agree with most of the above, Max. I just think E4’s contract and some hypothetical notion of who we might prefer in his spot (Reggie Bullock? Thank you, no) has people complaining about Fournier more than is warranted. I even concede that Fournier seems to check out of games when it’s just too ugly out there, but, basically, if we want to play team basketball, Evan is a net positive on these Knicks IMO.

I’m not getting too excited about Obi based on this game. Anyone can put up good numbers from time to time when they are an afterthought rather than a featured player at the top of an opponent’s scouting report. Let’s see what happens when teams game plan for him.

That said, a good game is a good game. Nice job, kid!

Raven:
Fournier Island is getting crowded. Is there eau fraiche there?

Not sure, but, generally speaking, fine food, clothes, women, architecture, and cinema. Shame about the pop music, though

Not really that high on Obi either but dont think we lose much if anything replacing Randle with him

It was a fun game to be at. It felt like half the crowd was Knick fans. This really is a different team without Julius. Sims looks like a solid backup center.

KevinR:
Not really that high on Obi either but dont think we lose much if anything replacing Randle with him

Against Charlotte, maybe not, but against other teams Obi has been much worse. For example, other than this game, where he got a good number of rebounds, Obi’s rebounding hasn’t been as good as Randle’s

GHenman:
It was a fun game to be at. It felt like half the crowd was Knick fans. This really is a different team without Julius. Sims looks like a solid backup center.

I suspect a lot of teams are wishing they drafted Sims when they had the chance

Does this make any sense with Sims doing the job at backup?

Noel, Dallas’s first rounder, and filler for Brunson?

Sims looking like a legit backup to Mitch is a huge development for the team. That’s a logical offer for Brunson, since he’s a base year player and the Mavericks can only take back half of his contract, so it would be Noel, the first rounder and probably at least one more pick (as Noel makes about half of Brunson’s likely 2022-23 salary on his own).

Noel, Dallas’s first rounder, and filler for Brunson?

This would be a great scenario. The Knicks would still need to clear more cap space. Wouldn’t they?

This would be a great scenario. The Knicks would still need to clear more cap space. Wouldn’t they?

Yes, they’d still need to trade at least Burks for basically nothing to clear the cap room for Brunson. That’s really why the Noel/Burks/Reddish trade for Dragic would have been so valuable, as then they wouldn’t even need to trade for Brunson, they could just sign him outright.

anyone notice the interaction between julius and his teammates on the bench, not so welcomed at the moment…even though there’s a good bit of young guys on the roster, easy to imagine the vets and some of the staff preaching professionalism – which is basically the exact opposite of how julius has behaved this season…

i wonder why they waited this long to really address it…

he does not seem connected, at all…there was one strange moment between himself and evian, it seemed to leave him even more dour, though initially he started off “laughing/smiling” at the situation…seems evian wasn’t getting the initial humor of whatever was being said…

deuce’s passes hits people in the hands, which makes it much easier for others to score, he’s got a quarterback’s arm…i really liked the deuce, quik and grimes backcourt (plus obi) – they were all flying around the court…

I mentioned the other day that Ime Udoka deserves COTY consideration, although Monty is a lock for it. After a dismal start, the Celts are 1.5 games out of the to spot in the East.

Man, what a shitty season this has been!

I agree, Udoka’s in the mix with Monty and IMO Taylor Jenkins and J.B. Bickerstaff.

After a particularly bad loss Udoka scorched his players in the postgame press conference, he was criticized by many at the time but their season changed there. As a former player he knew that it was time to stop pamper them.

I like Udoka a lot, and i think it’s interesting that the Celts have a coach that would be a perfect fit for the Knicks, and vice versa. Thibs would keep the divas (Tatum, Brown) under control, or else they go on a contest to prove which is one is the “prettier”. LOL
I think Udoka played on the Knicks, right? Maybe in the Knox/Brazdeikis role, but OAKAAK so i’m allowed to like the man.

Brian Cronin: Yes, they’d still need to trade at least Burks for basically nothing to clear the cap room for Brunson. That’s really why the Noel/Burks/Reddish trade for Dragic would have been so valuable, as then they wouldn’t even need to trade for Brunson, they could just sign him outright.

So why not send Burks to Dallas in that trade? Burks, Noel and DAL 2023 1RP for Brunson. I’m in.
To get the pick back allows Dallas to deal all their future picks, that’s huge for them to get help for Doncic.

Max: As he did with Randle? 😉

And the KAT/Jimmy beef… maybe i’m wrong, only the Celts have the coach we need, and not vice versa. 😛

I agree with Geo, Randle seems disconnected, and no, it doesn’t seem like the teammates like him anymore. They seem just colleagues now.
So here’s my proposal: Randle is from Dallas, maybe there he can get his mental health back. As i said before on the Knicks, where his problem started, it’s always harder to come back to a good place. So a straight swap Randle for Brunson would be a win-win trade for both teams. I could even lift the protections on the 2023 pick, allowing them to trade the 2025 and 2027 picks, but if we’re sending Randle i wouldn’t attach a pick to the deal.

So why not send Burks to Dallas in that trade? Burks, Noel and DAL 2023 1RP for Brunson. I’m in.

Can’t, because Brunson is a base-year player, so he only counts as half his incoming salary for matching purposes. Noel and Burks would be too much ($20 million versus likely half of $20 million) and if the Mavericks add filler to match, you have the same problem, the Knicks don’t have the cap room to take in his incoming salary (while the Knicks could only trade $10 million in salary for Brunson, he would count as $20 million against their cap).

 So a straight swap Randle for Brunson would be a win-win trade for both teams. I could even lift the protections on the 2023 pick, allowing them to trade the 2025 and 2027 picks, but if we’re sending Randle i wouldn’t attach a pick to the deal.

Same problem. Brunson only counts for $10 million for matching purposes.

To me, it looked like Randle had a lot of stuff on his mind. I’m wondering if he has personal stuff going on in his life that’s making it hard for him to put in the work and focus his job needs.

Udoka was my number two pick when the Knicks were looking to replace Miller. Thibs was… not close to my number two pick. 😉

Brian Cronin: Same problem. Brunson only counts for $10 million for matching purposes.

Hmm, didn’t knew this. Then yeah, not clearing space at the deadline was borderline stupid. Let’s see what Leon can do this summer, this is his last chance for me.

Brian Cronin: Udoka was my number two pick when the Knicks were looking to replace Miller. Thibs was… not close to my number two pick. 😉

Atkinson first? He was my number one.

Knick fan not in NJ: To me, it looked like Randle had a lot of stuff on his mind.I’m wondering if he has personal stuff going on in his life that’s making it hard for him to put in the work and focus his job needs.

So a change of scenery is what the doctor ordered.

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