2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Timberwolves – Thibs’ Revenge!

Come on, it is a shitty Timberwolves team and a chance to Thibs to get revenge on a team that he thinks screwed him over?

Can you possibly imagine Thibs letting them lose this one? The Knicks will win if only to prevent Thibs from having a vein pop in his forehead.

It’d be nice if the Knicks did so well that Towns was, like, “Hey, could you trade me there please?”

Let’s go continue to beat up bad teams, Knicks!

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176 thoughts to “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Timberwolves – Thibs’ Revenge!”

  1. Early game thread, well done Brian!

    The trappest of the trap games, but we gotta have faith, let’s go Knicks!

  2. interesting stuff reference new orleans, jj reddick, david griffin and “trust”:
    When asked specifically by podcast co-host Tommy Alter if he thinks players will be able to trust the Pelicans’ front office moving forward, Redick was blunt.

    “I don’t think you’re going to get honesty from that front office, just objectively speaking,” Reddick said. “That’s not an opinion — I just don’t think you’re going to get that. I don’t think what happened with me is necessarily an isolated incident either. But I do think across the league, front offices, they act in their best interest. I get that. I understand that.

    “Truthfully — and it’s hard for me to admit this — I think I was a little naive in thinking that because I was in Year 15, and I had at least attempted to do things right throughout my career and I honored my end of the bargain … But in terms of this front office, yeah, it’s not something where I would expect certainly the agents that worked on this with me to ever trust that front office again.”

  3. Very happy to know you guys in america are getting vaccinated. But how about the rest of the world? Any KBer from europe vaccinated? Here at least my parents (79 and 80) already got their first dose, not all is bad. And in China, KFniNJ? Australia (dtrickey and other i don’t remember the handle)? And you, Bruno, how are you? Brazil is the center of the pandemic right now, i think. Hope all is well with you.

    I work at a University and there is a drive to vaccinate everybody working here. I got my first shot Sunday. I think it was Sinovac vaccine. As part of the WeChat notice said:

    IMPORTANT NOTICE!!! Notice According to the spirit of the State Council Joint Prevention and Control Mechanism National Vaccination Work Conference, it is required that vaccination work should be regarded as a major political task, thoughts and actions should be unified with the central plan, and an immune barrier should be formed quickly to effectively protect people’s lives, health and safety.

  4. Knick fan not in NJ: I work at a University and there is a drive to vaccinate everybody working here. I got my first shot Sunday. I think it was Sinovac vaccine.

    That’s great news. Now europe must ramp up the vaccination to get there too.

  5. Thought the referees would be starting early today, but then they reverted the call

  6. Max:
    Bullock is the king of the three shots foul…

    I get mad at this, if i was Thibs he’d be subbed right away

  7. If KAT ever got himself into shape, went down on the blacks to post up, and committed to play defense, he would be Embiid-level.

    I do not trust him to do any of those things, so I would not want the Knicks to trade for him.

  8. Very happy to know you guys in america are getting vaccinated. But how about the rest of the world? Any KBer from europe vaccinated? Here at least my parents (79 and 80) already got their first dose, not all is bad. And in China, KFniNJ? Australia (dtrickey and other i don’t remember the handle)? And you, Bruno, how are you? Brazil is the center of the pandemic right now, i think. Hope all is well with you.

    Apologies for missing this and responding on the game thread. Australia’s vaccine roll out has targeted frontline workers (healthcare and hotel quarantine security) along with the elderly and vulnerable, so being a mostly fit 32 year old, I am at the bottom of the heap as far as vaccinations go and likely won’t be able to get it for a few more months. Some conjecture between state governments and the federal government about the speed of the roll-out and they have dropped the ball to some degree given they estimated the population would be vaccinated by end of July, but we are for the most part in a good position down here with 0 community transmission for a while now and 1 active case in Melbourne that’s in hotel quarantine (Brisbane just coming out of a snap 3 day lockdown to get on some community transmissions that resulted in about a dozen cases, but they look to be on top of it now), so the general public is fairly blase about it. Bigger concern at the moment is making sure healthcare and quarantine workers are vaccinated given that is usually the cause of new cases down here.

    On a more relevant game note, huge trap game for us. If they want to be taken seriously as a playoff team, we gotta feast on these guys.

  9. Having watched the Knicks this year, I feel comfortable saying the Wolves are not very good at defense.

  10. Now that is out I could write without jinx him:
    despite the last block positive game for Payton, with good defense.
    Alas he has the same shooting range as Mitch and Noel, everything from 5 feet and beyond is an expected miss…

  11. dtrickey: we gotta feast on these guys.

    Cool that in Australia everything is under control no matter how the vaccination rolls out. And now, you’re right, let’s feast on the Wolves. :)

  12. The T’Wolves play such a slow pace when KAT is on the floor. This is a bad fit for Edwards, whose best skill is filling the lane on the fast break.

  13. ephus: The T’Wolves play such a slow pace when KAT is on the floor.This is a bad fit for Edwards, whose best skill is filling the lane on the fast break.

    We’re in agreement, they should send KAT here because we’re already slow without KAT.

  14. Wow, Toppin did something that Barrett (and lately Randle) never do — pass out of the double-team. For an easy three…

  15. Raven:
    Wow, Toppin did something that Barrett (and now Randle) never do — pass out of the double-team. For an easy three…

    Was a fantastic decision and play by Obi… followed it up with a drive to nowhere… I hate seeing him set up alone in the corner. It’s so nonsensical.

  16. So is our second unit better than our first unit, or is our second unit better than most other teams’ second units?

  17. IQ in a prolonged shooting slump…

    Burks is our only real pull up shooter from three.

    Meanwhile Luka is cutting the C’s to pieces, Boston looks really bad.

  18. Raven: So is our second unit better than our first unit, or is our second unit better than most other teams’ second units?

    Or both ;)

  19. Nothing more infuriating than building a big lead and then doing the only thing that could help cut into the lead which is allowing 3pter after 3pter.

  20. Raven:
    So is our second unit better than our first unit, or is our second unit better than most other teams’ second units?

    It’s not the 2nd unit it’s just really Burks lol.

  21. It seems like the 2nd unit plays with more pace and movement, probably out of necessity. But it’s clear that it consistently gets them open looks … and if they are hitting at a high clip they look really good and build a nice lead rather quickly … the opposite can clearly happen as well … now with the starters i expect more forced and contested shots…

  22. KJG:
    It seems like the 2nd unit plays with more pace and movement, probably out of necessity. But it’s clear that it consistentlygets them open looks … and if they are hitting at a high clip they look really good and build a nice lead rather quickly … the opposite can clearly happen as well … now with the starters i expect more forced and contested shots…

    Maybe because there’s a different PG?

  23. So is the Knicks’ first unit worse than their second unit, or is the first unit worse than other teams’ first units?

  24. Randle’s turnovers tonight are really infuriating…
    stupid and careless, like he’s playing in a rec league…

  25. Poor Butter Stumps…

    As for Thibs in a daze, clearly — since he did nothing to change things up except call time outs.

  26. Raven:
    Poor Butter Stumps…

    As for Thibs in a daze, clearly — since he did nothing to change things up except call time outs.

    Is it ignorance, pride, arrogance, what is the issue here?

  27. Doncic put the Celtics on the hibachi. What a first half.

    Turned the Knicks on just in time to watch the lead evaporate. That was ugly.

  28. Can only assume Thibs was paralyzed by rage considering he made no actual changes during that Wolves run.

  29. cybersoze:
    Now the 2nd unit has to build a good lead again

    You forget, they start the first unit in the third. So they’ll have to cough up the lead altogether before the second unit comes on.

    Al, it was indeed mostly Burks scoring points, but he was also with the first unit there toward the end while they faded.

  30. This is stupid,
    allowing a three every time we hit one (and from Payton no less!)…
    Stupìd…

  31. Watching Porzingis. He looks much better than he did early in the season.

    He has been better as of late, but still seems to have fairly wild swings in form, especially on the boards. Still seems to be about where we thought he was pre-injury.

  32. Owen: Watching Porzingis. He looks much better than he did early in the season.

    Looking like a max guy?

  33. Scoreboard watching:

    Indiana was up by 15 in the third, then went 5 minutes without scoring in the fourth, Miami won again.
    Ind 21-25 Miami 24-24

  34. Not seeing a lot of surplus in that KP contract. And the injury risk is always there.

    I hope we don’t lose this game. Love the fast breaking.

    For some reason the Knicks have never been a fast break team. Maybe with Jackson and Strickland a bit.

  35. Speaking of scoreboard watching, The Long Island Old-Timer All Stars are losing to Kelly Olynyk and the Fun-Time Oilers.

    Spoke too soon. Too bad.

  36. Z-man:
    Payton is saying f u to the haterz

    His way of thanking you is a turnover…. :-)

    Honestly tonight he is not the worst Knicks and did some good things…

  37. Gibson ate his Wheaties

    It’s really unbelievable how good Randle’s shooting has been this year.

  38. I know you can’t judge our defense against a shit team like Minnesota, but we really do swarm to shooters and make it difficult to score. So refreshing to watch.

  39. d-mar:
    I know you can’t judge our defense against a shit team like Minnesota, but we really do swarm to shooters and make it difficult to score. So refreshing to watch.

    Yes. Yes. Yes. When they do, it’s a joy to behold.

  40. ephus:
    Obi got torched on the last Pick & Roll.Thibs called an immediate TO.

    Indeed, but there are inequities in how his mistakes are treated vs others. The guy clearly hates the kid … he’s phucked here in NY, maybe everywhere if he does truly stink… we’ll never know…

  41. KJG: Indeed, but there are inequities in how his mistakes are treated vs others.The guy clearly hates the kid … he’s phucked here in NY, maybe everywhere if he does truly stink… we’ll never know in NY

  42. Coach enjoys making changes when he really doesn’t have to … doesn’t let game come to him on occasion. Tonight is sorta like that …

  43. Waiting for the BBA “this would be the worst loss of the season”

    Although this time he might be right.

  44. We must be collectively that dumb that we think Payton isnt our best guard option in crunch time next to Barrett …

  45. I get that Quickley has had a miserable game but at this point we pretty clearly need another shot creator out there

  46. thenoblefacehumper:
    I get that Quickley has had a miserable game but at this point we pretty clearly need another shot creator out there

    You mean they’ve figured out handoff-handoff-handoff-Randle-iso?

  47. djphan:
    edwards def left his mark on this game…

    He kinda stunk tho… until the end he’s kinda been unstoppable… this game has confused me

  48. Excruciating is the exact word I would use to describe this loss!

  49. d-mar:
    Waiting for the BBA “this would be the worst loss of the season”

    Although this time he might be right.

    By far the worst fucking loss of the season.

  50. Edwards has some major potential. He is a notch above the crowd physically. If the all around game catches up, watch out!

  51. Well maybe Thibs will have an aneurysm.

    This loss was all on him, as far as I’m concerned.

    Okay not all. But he sure helped.

  52. randle stepback midrange jumpers vs the 27th ranked defense is what lost the game…. sooner or later the offense has got to evolve past one guy pounding the rock…..

  53. KJG: He kinda stunk tho… until the end he’s kinda been unstoppable… this game has confused me

    Were we watching the same game?

  54. Raven:
    Well maybe Thibs will have an aneurysm.

    This loss was all on him, as far as I’m concerned.

    Okay not all. But he sure helped.

    I thought Thibs actually adapted pretty good earlier in the year. I think he was just feeling shit out though. In his mind now, it’s all get out, he’s got it, his lineup decisions appear shitty to say the least, and he’s reactive to insignificant events throughout the game. It’s either that or he’s so methodical… I can’t quite tell

  55. Z-man: Were we watching the same game?

    I honest felt he was good but mostly ho hum until the last 6 minutes for which we had no answer. He appears to step it up a bit.

  56. A deserved loss,
    bad coaching, for the second game in a row with his fucking clockwork substitutions,
    embarrassing iso offense in the fourth quarter and a lot of arrogance from our “stars” (4 turnovers apiec for Randle and Barrett).

    How an NBA coach could honestly think that Payton, with his inability to shoot, is useful in the clutch is beyond me.

    Welcome to reality

  57. Z-man:
    Edwards has some major potential. He is a notch above the crowd physically. If the all around game catches up, watch out!

    Yeah. And that guy McDaniels. Not bad to watch for Minnie. And I think I heard they’re the youngest team in the league.

    Sadly, RJ had it going but his wheels really came off at the end over the last few possessions.

  58. Z-man: Were we watching the same game?

    Just to piggy back I thought the mcdaniels and Beasley 3s were more momentous throughout the game … edwards play at end was great but prior to that I Didn’t think it was that special

  59. People complaining about Iso Randle, you do realize that basically every single best team in the league just go Iso down the stretch of games if not for the entire game. The problem with the Knicks is they don’t have a PG to basically run anything else, I seriously wonder what you guys think the Knicks should do on offense with their current personnel. Its either ISO or PnR which is basically what they run the entire game.

  60. KB Apprentice: Yeah. And that guy McDaniels. Not bad to watch for Minnie. And I think I heard they’re the youngest team in the league.

    Sadly, RJ had it going but his wheels really came off at the end over the last few possessions.

    I was just going to point out how impressive McDaniels was, especially for a 28th pick.

    If Towns sticks around, Edwards and McDaniels get healthy, they don’t whiff on a top-4 pick and DAR comes back healthy, that’s a good nucleus.

  61. KB Apprentice: Yeah. And that guy McDaniels. Not bad to watch for Minnie. And I think I heard they’re the youngest team in the league.

    So now basically everyone picked after Toppin is a better pro than him. Excellent.

  62. People complaining about Iso Randle, you do realize that basically every single best team in the league just go Iso down the stretch of games if not for the entire game.

    you might be able to find some examples of this esp in the playoffs but not against the 27th ranked defense…. and certainly not run the same play for the entirety of the 4th quarter…. and we seem to run the same 3 plays in every 4th quarter….

  63. KJG: Just to piggy back I thought the mcdaniels and Beasley 3s were more momentous throughout the game … edwards play at end was great but prior to that I Didn’t think it was that special

    Not that special is fair…kinda stunk seemed inaccurate….not a big deal.

  64. BigBlueAL:
    People complaining about Iso Randle, you do realize that basically every single best team in the league just go Iso down the stretch of games if not for the entire game.The problem with the Knicks is they don’t have a PG to basically run anything else, I seriously wonder what you guys think the Knicks should do on offense with their current personnel.Its either ISO or PnR which is basically what they run the entire game.

    Isnt it amazing to watch the defense sag on Payton and really dig in on the 4 other Knicks on the floor. Its freaking 5 on 4 late every game … Elfrid Payton has average vision at best and he can’t shoot for shit. It’s so pathetic. I don’t mind Randle iso… defense loves it though as they know there’s one guy on the floor they certainly don’t have to guard on the kickout… oh and he’s not Ben Simmons on the glass either so no worries there.

  65. Wasted big effort from Taj tonight. Hope he’s not hurt.

    BigBlueAL:
    People complaining about Iso Randle, you do realize that basically every single best team in the league just go Iso down the stretch of games if not for the entire game.The problem with the Knicks is they don’t have a PG to basically run anything else, I seriously wonder what you guys think the Knicks should do on offense with their current personnel.Its either ISO or PnR which is basically what they run the entire game.

    I think everyone agrees the PG play is not strong. And maybe they do try to run PnR a lot, but it always looks like PnP. I think some of that is on the coach.

  66. The Wolves suck. The only player they had out tonight was Russell and he’s a polarizing player at best. KAT, Edwards and Russell are beyond awful defensively hence why they have the worst record in the NBA despite having 4 players who all average around 20 PPG.

  67. BigBlueAL:
    People complaining about Iso Randle, you do realize that basically every single best team in the league just go Iso down the stretch of games if not for the entire game.The problem with the Knicks is they don’t have a PG to basically run anything else, I seriously wonder what you guys think the Knicks should do on offense with their current personnel.Its either ISO or PnR which is basically what they run the entire game.

    I think we overplayed the Iso Randle, we went there every single play the last six minutes…
    In part that’s a consequence of having Payton in instead of Burks,
    it’s the same old story, with the paint packed we could not play 4 vs 5 every time.
    I think it would be better to spread the floor and give Randle an option to kick out to the shooters…

    But who am I? Someone is well paid to lose with the worst team in the league, let him choose the way to lose…

  68. Not having Mitch makes it alot tougher to run PnR, he’s the only big who is actually good at rim running.

  69. ess-dog: So now basically everyone picked after Toppin is a better pro than him. Excellent.

    Probably, but it’s not like we’ll ever get to see Toppin given the right opportunity here. Maybe he doesn’t deserve it who knows. But we won’t see it here regardless

  70. ess-dog: So now basically everyone picked after Toppin is a better pro than him. Excellent.

    We’ll never know. He got his 9 minutes and was yanked for blowing a PnR because, you know, nobody ever gets beat on a PnR.

    Edit: You owe me a coke, KJG.

  71. BigBlueAL:
    The Wolves suck.The only player they had out tonight was Russell and he’s a polarizing player at best.KAT, Edwards and Russell are beyond awful defensively hence why they have the worst record in the NBA despite having 4 players who all average around 20 PPG.

    News flash: The Knicks suck too.

  72. I see Obi has become the new Frank amongst people obsessed with giving lottery busts more playing time. I actually prefer Knox getting minutes instead of Obi.

  73. Raven: We’ll never know. He got his 9 minutes and was yanked for blowing a PnR because, you know, nobody ever gets beat on a PnR.

    I watched Burks , who I like a lot , make blunder after blunder… bad / late close out (usually an Obi benching), two incredibly terrible passes, some terrible shots … I get it, Burks has redeeming qualities that Obi might not but I’m frustrated with his minutes and role as well.

  74. BigBlueAL:
    I see Obi has become the new Frank amongst people obsessed with giving lottery busts more playing time.I actually prefer Knox getting minutes instead of Obi.

    Just want to see him play, coach says he’s great in practice. Must be lying to our faces … who is he lying to actually though. Just a few reporters. I’m not opposed to seeing Knox get minutes too … I feel like I’m in minutes distribution purgatory

  75. Z-man: News flash: The Knicks suck too.

    I love ya Z-man but considering you think the 18-30 Raptors are good but the 24-24 Knicks, who have actually outscored their opponents thru their first 48 games, suck doesn’t exactly speak well of your talent evaluation :-)

    The Knicks are not a very good team but they far from suck, their .500 record is what it’s supposed to be no matter how much you think the talent on the Knicks suck. Of course if they finish 32-40 like you think they will then I’ll have to eat my words lol.

  76. djphan: you might be able to find some examples of this esp in the playoffs but not against the 27th ranked defense…. and certainly not run the same play for the entirety of the 4th quarter…. and we seem to run the same 3 plays in every 4th quarter….

    Totally agree. And the way this went down, despite RJ’s consecutive errors, I really think Thibs could/should have made more of an effort with timeouts and set plays.

  77. BigBlueAL:
    I see Obi has become the new Frank amongst people obsessed with giving lottery busts more playing time.I actually prefer Knox getting minutes instead of Obi.

    Frank was thought to be a great draft pick by some here, people actively lobbied for him and were thrilled that he was taken. No one seemed to feel that way about Obi, so I doubt that he gets the Frank treatment. But honestly, he doesn’t merit any playing time at all right now so no one should be complaining about how he has been used. He has totally sucked.

  78. Z-man: Frank was thought to be a great draft pick by some here, people actively lobbied for him and were thrilled that he was taken. No one seemed to feel that way about Obi, so I doubt that he gets the Frank treatment. But honestly, he doesn’t merit any playing time at all right now so no one should be complaining about how he has been used.He has totally sucked.

    I’m simply complaining that the unit he played with tonight was actually playing with some fluidity and playing ok, and with relative ease. So why not let it ride a bit longer. Thibs does not have spidey senses

  79. Most people here hated trading for Rose, myself included, but games like tonight shows what a huge difference he makes for this team. Can’t believe I just typed that…

  80. pepper:
    thibs got what he deserved tonight…see if he learns any lessons from it…

    go yanks!

    His only “feel” for the game is foul trouble… robot

  81. The Knicks in the 4th quarter of close games have seemed to play much better when they are trailing and trying to make a comeback than vice versa. There have been plenty of games this season where they have blown double digit leads in the 2nd half but for the most part have been able to hold on for the win while they have had a few 4th quarter comebacks when trailing by double digits in the 2nd half. They’ve blown some games but also have stolen some games too.

    Overall though they are 2-6 in games decided by 3 pts or less so that seems to be a pretty telling stat for their late game execution.

  82. BigBlueAL: I love ya Z-man but considering you think the 18-30 Raptors are good but the 24-24 Knicks, who have actually outscored their opponents thru their first 48 games, suck doesn’t exactly speak well of your talent evaluation :-)

    The Knicks are not a very good team but they far from suck, their .500 record is what it’s supposed to be no matter how much you think the talent on the Knicks suck.Of course if they finish 32-40 like you think they will then I’ll have to eat my words lol.

    We can agree to disagree on this. I think the Raps are better on paper but have major chemistry issues. I also think Thibs has generated several wins beyond what most coaches would have out of this bunch. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of our parts due to coaching and chemistry. I get the quibbles about Thibs’ O, but the team, which is mostly comprised of developing young players and journeymen, is bought in and cohesive on D, which is where their wins are coming from. And that’s due to the coach more than anything else. When teams are relatively healthy and play harder and smarter than we do, we will probably lose. That’s what happened tonight.

    And in fairness, I said 32 games was a floor and that 39 was virtually impossible. I did say that we would not finish at .500 or above and am standing by that. The next 10 games will be very telling. If we go 3-7, we’ll never see .500 again; 5-5 would be much more promising.

  83. geo:
    not sure what it really even means, but, yeah – thibs does seem to coach: not to lose…

    Yeah, temperamentally Thibs seems the opposite of loose guys like Pop, Kerr, Dantoni and even older coaches like Phil and Daly. Obviously, I see a lot of Van Gundy in him (and I loved JVG!) but watching Randle, or Melo, or (yes) even Ewing shoot predictable iso fadeaways at the buzzer can be ulcer-inducing.

  84. Having a PG down the stretch who can’t shoot is a massive liability, unless that PG is prime Rajon Rondo or Ben Simmons. Watching the Minnesota defense sag off Payton at the 3 point line was nauseating.

    Enough of this guy, let Burks or Q run the point in crunch time.

  85. I’m with you Z-Man on Thibs, I’ve been a big proponent of his from the day he was hired. The people complaining about him are laughable. I agree no way they finish with 39 wins, right now I think they finish anywhere between 34 and 37 wins. The 15 games in April are crucial because of the brutal 6 game road trip they have to start May. 10 of their 15 games in April are at home, they need to finish at worst 8-7 this month coming up.

    But for right now as Bill Parcells likes to say, you are what your record says you are!

  86. DRed:
    I picked a good game to miss it sounds like

    Haha. By Friday let’s all make offerings to our chosen deities (real and/or imagined). I’d much rather win that game than this one.

  87. watching Randle, or Melo, or (yes) even Ewing shoot predictable iso fadeaways at the buzzer can be ulcer-inducing.

    some nights they do go in, not so much tonight, it was painful to watch…

    thibs needs to cool it with those off-day no practice things…get them in the gym, keep them in the gym – shooting…

    yikes, we shot 72.4% from the line in march, not winning basketball…

    biggest revelation this week – i need to be youtuber – i can do this…, under 10, that’s straight gold…and, digital art, yeah, gots to learn me some digital art…

  88. BigBlueAL: But for right now as Bill Parcells likes to say, you are what your record says you are!

    I agree with Bill, but there are different reasons why teams finish with better or worse records than their talent would suggest….chemistry, coaching, injuries, etc. It couldn’t be more clear to me that Miami was far better than us, and yet we have the same records. Same with Atlanta. That’s why I think we will regress somewhat and will finish behind Miami, Atlanta, and Boston. The rest of the East is very bad, so we should finish in the top 10 for sure but beyond that, anything over 32 wins is gravy.

  89. Z-Man, Big Al, I think you read this wrong. I’m a huge fan of Thibs, in terms of installing a demonic defense and somehow getting a bunch of millionaire kids to buy into it and actually implement it effectively. I think he should get lots of (at least partial) credit for any number of the team’s wins this year because of that defense. But he does seem to have a number of pretty big faults, and it’s not inappropriate to point them out (I guess in the hopes that he reads KB and will realize the error of his ways and change at 63…).

    So he gets credit for a bunch of wins, but his hyper-rigid orthodoxy about not changing up the line-up when things are clearly not working (or not installing more than three set plays) means I think you can pin (a good part of) this loss on him. If he’d tried a bunch of different stuff and nothing worked, okay sometimes you just have one of those days. He kept putting out the same thing that wasn’t working until, well, we lost.

  90. Front office should just take away Thibs’s Elf binky. Should have happened weeks ago.

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