2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks and Their Starting Point Guard, Derrick Rose vs. Kings

If only Nerlens Noel could also miss this game and then Thibs could start Taj Gibson, as well.

I’m kidding, really, as obviously with Payton out, Rose was clearly going to be the starter and honestly, if it’s just a temporary situation, you probably don’t even want Quickley moving to the starting lineup for just a game.

Is it a big frustrating that Rose is ahead of Quickley on the depth chart? Sure, but whatever, I get it. Rose is definitely more of a real point guard than Quickley.

This game, of course, will be all about seeing Hali in person and hoping that he has a bad game and that Obi has a good one.

The Kings are sort of a testament to the strength of the Western Conference, as they are 12-19 and I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t be more like 14-17 (or better) if they were in the Eastern Conference. They’re far from a good team, just better than 12-19 if they were in the East, where literally THREE teams are over .500 and only one more is even at .500. This is a strange, strange season.

The Knicks are currently in a three-way tie for the #8 seed, but they’re just a half game back of a three-way tie for the fifth seed, so a win tonight would move the Knicks into that tie for fifth (since none of the other teams in the #5-10 spot are playing tonight).

So, well, let’s plead the fifth tonight!

Let’s go get back within a game of .500, Knicks!

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193 thoughts to “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks and Their Starting Point Guard, Derrick Rose vs. Kings”

  1. Sorry but I lost some respect after that last post.

    What happened in the last thread will be a footnote that no one will care about in a few months.

    This was not a disrespectful post or anything even remotely like it. The media is fvcking insane. It wasn’t an undue roast and no one outside of today’s thread lurkers is praising it. It’s a few idiots that think threes are “good for winning basketball” because the 2014-15 Warriors got lucky in the Finals and probably really think that the “powers that be” (Mike K. et al.) all aligned to trash-talk them by any means necessary and that included overcrediting their league-best 3PT%, which was only good because their good shooters were good at shooting.

  2. Swapping Rose for Payton in the starting lineup is like trading in your 2002 Honda Civic for a 2001 Toyota Camry

  3. You are saying absolutely fucking nothing, here.

    You are missing the point.

    Teams are shooting a lot more 3s now because of the math behind it and because they saw the success of the Warriors. The latter is a certainty. Even coaches were saying things long those lines. Success always gets copied and that title helped change the thinking on taking 3s and the title.

    I am simply adding that the math changes in the playoffs for lesser players as you go deeper and get to the finals.

    IMO, the NBA has overshot on their use of 3s. More attention should be placed on trying to find guys that can be very efficient in the post and get to the rim and finish. The 3 point shooters should be there to help those guys. They shouldn’t be the primary weapons unless you have a Durant, Steph, Lillard etc… that you know can handle that job and won’t fold. There aren’t too many of those guys.

  4. I swear to god that in the introduction Noel looked like he had fingers. Does he take them off when the game starts?

  5. Raven:
    I swear to god that in the introduction Noel looked like he had fingers. Does he take them off when the game starts?

    I laughed quite a bit. I feel like Noel can catch lobs but the rest of it, yeah.

    Rose probably going to have a good game against this defense.

  6. Barrett is making better decisions tonight. He found Bullock on the break. Earlier, he maneuvered from a contested 3 to a wideopen 18′.

  7. Frank in, Knicks immediately score and then a terrified Halliburton travels when he sees Frank closing on him

  8. Bo Nateman:
    On a related note, the NYT posted an article on how Thinking, Fast and Slow has become a must-read in baseball’s FO’s.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/sports/baseball/thinking-fast-and-slow-book.html

    Someone asked about this in the last thread.
    The entire answer is in one paragraph:

    The central thesis of Kahneman’s book is the interplay between each mind’s System 1 and System 2, which he described as a “psychodrama with two characters.” System 1 is a person’s instinctual response — one that can be enhanced by expertise but is automatic and rapid. It seeks coherence and will apply relevant memories to explain events. System 2, meanwhile, is invoked for more complex, thoughtful reasoning — it is characterized by slower, more rational analysis but is prone to laziness and fatigue.

  9. Now is not the time for K&T. Frank is on the floor.

    I kind of feel like Rose is IQ’s kryptonite.

  10. I haven’t checked but I’m pretty sure Quick has 20 points in 2 minutes

  11. pepper: last few weeks he looks out of it…i am souring on that dude…

    Remember when he was our #1 for two games or so. Was on his way to being an all star

  12. KJG: Remember when he was our #1 for two games or so. Was on his way to being an all star

    Clyde watching Knickerblogger while calling the game, basically repeats this line.

  13. Rose and IQ should never be on the court together.

    Maybe Rose should just never be on the court. Although he has been good tonight.

    Hali has thrown some great passes. He’s an unconventional player.

  14. 1. Quickley should play on the ball. He is a lead guard, even if he is not a great assist man.
    2. Ntliikina is much better suited to be a 3&D wing than a PG. His handle is not NBA level.
    3. The Kings defense is as bad as advertised.

  15. Removing Payton and Rivers and adding Frank and Rose makes too much sense today. I love IQ on the ball.

  16. That was a travel on Bagley. Breen has lost his mind.

    I am happy I don’t have to root for Fox. Feels like a future Knick.

  17. In all seriousness, Frank Ntilikina should be starting in place of Reggie Bullock.

  18. I’ve been waiting patiently to the see the Frank/Quick combo. I liked it. With Frank, Quick is going to do more shooting/scoring than with Rivers or Rose (which is good). If he’s open Frank will shoot, but he won’t do anything crazy off the dribble like Rivers will. It’s a good combination. Frank didn’t look his best on defense on every possession, but he drew that nice offensive foul and had good energy. We need to look at more of this combination while Payton is out to see more of Frank. If Frank looks OK, time to trade Rivers.

  19. I know the Kings can’t play D, but it’s still nice to see this passing

  20. If you just went by tnfh’s comments you’d think Ntilikina was terrible in his minutes. The hate seems to run deep.

  21. Watching the Knicks crush the Kings with noted Knicks troll De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Halliburton is extra satisfying.

  22. Z-man:
    If you just went by tnfh’s comments you’d think Ntilikina was terrible in his minutes. The hate seems to run deep.

    I just got here a short time ago and asked how Frank was doing, but my post/question is undergoing moderation. That’s how deep the hate runs!
    :-)

  23. I don’t know whether the Knicks were hot or if that is the most bullshit defense I have ever seen

  24. Owen:
    I don’t know whether the Knicks were hot or if that is the most bullshit defense I have ever seen

    Both. You still have to make the shots.

  25. I was wrong. I won’t ruin it by posting the right answer.

    ephus:
    without looking it up:

    1. Ewing
    2. Camby
    3. Chandler
    4. Marvin (the Human Eraser) Webster.

  26. People hate Frank because some people (like me) are such a huge fans despite such limited accomplishments so far. If I stated going over the top on IQ, a few people would focus on all his flaws and want to trade him while the price is high . lol He played fine for his first minutes in such a long time after being on ice most of the season while healthy. The energy was there, but the D was not 100%.

  27. TheClashFan: I just got here a short time ago and asked how Frank was doing, but my post/question is undergoing moderation.That’s how deep the hate runs!
    :-)

    LOL

  28. Hard to believe that Mike Conley never made an all star team…it’s tough out there in the west

  29. Z-man:
    Hard to believe that Mike Conley never made an all star team…it’s tough out there in the west

    I would not be surprised if there were at least one more “injury” replacement for the West. Conley might still get in this year.

  30. There is no “I” in “team”, but this year there may be two “ii”s in MVP. Embiid is putting up big numbers again tonight. Sixers are up 11 on the Mavericks in the 3Q.

    My two favorite teams are the Knicks and whoever is playing the Mavs. It would be so sweet if the Knicks got a lottery pick out of the KP trade.

  31. Noel’s hands may be made of stone, but that does make them adept at knocking the ball away

  32. ephus:
    There is no “I” in “team”, but this year there may be two “ii”s in MVP.Embiid is putting up big numbers again tonight.Sixers are up 11 on the Mavericks in the 3Q.

    My two favorite teams are the Knicks and whoever is playing the Mavs.It would be so sweet if the Knicks got a lottery pick out of the KP trade.

    LOL

    that would be nice to get a lotto pick

  33. djphan:
    there are just so many possessions where rose is the only one who touches the ball….

    hes not a pg, hes a scoring guard

  34. Meanwhile, the Nets are on their way to winning their 8th straight game. They have not missed a beat while Durant has been out for the last week.

  35. Once again the defense stagnates halfway through the third and Thibs does nothing (well okay, for some reason Frank’s come in, but that’s not what I mean…).

  36. Rose no longer should be put in for 10 straight minutes in any quarter. He clearly ran out of gas in the last two minutes. When he gets tired, he reverts to hero ball.

  37. that was all on hero ball randle…blew the possession and they turn around and score…give the ball to a guard..

  38. pepper:
    that was all on hero ball randle…blew the possession and they turn around and score…give the ball to a guard..

    Yeah, pretty ugly sequence there.

  39. A professional organization worth billions of dollars looked at Bagley and thought he would turn out to be a better player than Luka Doncic.

  40. Frank! Clearly practiced a bit during his time off… That drive to the rack, I was sure it had to be someone else.

  41. That Frank to Toppin assist was really pretty. Obi gets veeery long when he goes up for a dunk with a running start…

  42. Unless things go south, I really, really hope Thibs ‘rests his starters’ and leaves these guys in to close the game.

  43. The Kings are gonna be really good next year when they add Kenny Atkinson and Johnathan Kuminga.

  44. DRed:
    Frank with a classic backwards pass instead of simply driving to the hoop

    These are the plays that get Frank benched. Coaches want to see the ball move towards the hoop, or to an open 3 point shooter. Even if that pass gets through, getting the ball to the nail for an open jumper is bad play.

  45. marechal:
    A professional organization worth billions of dollars looked at Bagley and thought he would turn out to be a better player than Luka Doncic.

    Always a key takeaway from every Kings game

  46. Garbage Time – noun phrase – 1. The portion of a NBA game where the outcome is no longer in doubt. 2. Any time that Kevin Knox is in the game. 3. The period when Taj Gibson can launch 3 pointers without getting yanked by Thibs.

  47. Hilarious post. All 3 so true.

    ephus:
    Garbage Time – noun phrase – 1. The portion of a NBA game where the outcome is no longer in doubt. 2. Any time that Kevin Knox is in the game. 3. The period when Taj Gibson can launch 3 pointers without getting yanked by Thibs.

  48. ephus:
    Garbage Time – noun phrase – 1. The portion of a NBA game where the outcome is no longer in doubt. 2. Any time that Kevin Knox is in the game. 3. The period when Taj Gibson can launch 3 pointers without getting yanked by Thibs.

    LOL!

    Burks with the, uh, less than scintillating interview.

  49. Ummmm….we’re ahead of the Celtics in the standings…..is this a Jupiter aligned with Saturn thing?

  50. Z-man:
    Ummmm….we’re ahead of the Celtics in the standings…..is this a Jupiter aligned with Saturn thing?

    This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius…

  51. Z-man:
    Ummmm….we’re ahead of the Celtics in the standings…..is this a Jupiter aligned with Saturn thing?

    Or it’s the apocalypse! ;)

  52. Closing with Frank and 4 vets was unexpected but shows you that Thibs ain’t dumb when it comes to D.

  53. Unfortunately I don’t think they have any firsts left to trade, OKC has them all

    I think they own a decent second from a team.

    EDITED TO ADD: They have Detroit’s seconds from 2024-26 and they have Atlanta’s 2022 second rounder.

  54. And so castles made of sand
    Fall in the sea
    Eventually

    Down the court you can hear Thibs scream, “You’re a disgrace,”
    As he slams the ball in the rookie’s face
    And now he stands outside
    And all the veterans start to gossip and drool

    He cries, “Oh Quick, you must be mad,
    What happened to the playing time you used to have?”
    Against the whiteboard he leans and starts his ado,
    And his tears fall and burn the Garden blue

  55. Brian Cronin: I think they own a decent second from a team.

    EDITED TO ADD: They have Detroit’s seconds from 2024-26 and they have Atlanta’s 2022 second rounder.

    Also, if we beat them in the standings then we swap picks anyways. So no helping them this year.

  56. I am happy I don’t have to root for Fox. Feels like a future Knick.

    Is that so? what a surprising development. I was a big fan of him a year ago.

  57. It’s hard to find a downside to this game.

    Quick broke out of his slump
    RJ broke out his slump
    Rose broke out of his slump
    Randle may be getting even better. There’s more of a quiet confidence about him now than at the start
    Frank looked better than I expected given the injury, lockdown, and how little he’s played
    Burks was in another dimension down the stretch
    Noel keeps doing the job

    Obviously playing against a bad defensive team helped, but we still looked good. We are tied for 5th in the standings and should keep improving. The real question is whether we can make any moves to improve the team before the deadline. I still think Quick is more of a score first combo guard than PG. I’m not sure he’s the solution at PG unless we are willing to play a multi-playmaker type offense where a lot of stuff runs through Randle and others also. Either way, we need an upgrade the starting PG position, improvement and more consistency out of RJ, and an upgrade over Bullock to make some noise. Bullock would be fine off the bench or maybe Frank can take over that role off the bench eventually, but to really make noise we have to upgrade there too.

  58. d-mar: Call up the Clippers and try offering them Burks tonight!

    They have that Oturu kid from Minnesota who they drafted with our 33rd pick. That would bring our entire draft night saga full circle!

  59. “Strange days have found us
    Strange days have tracked us down
    They’re going to destroy
    Our casual joys
    We shall go on playing or find a new town
    Yeah!”

  60. IMO, the chances they are going to trade Burks are fairly low. They are trying to make the playoffs and get better, not accumulate draft picks to get better in 2025. Burks is an important scorer off the bench. If they trade anyone, it will be Rivers (non essential for us but possibly useful to someone else) or there will be a bigger trade using one or more of our 1st round picks with Frank and/or Knox to upgrade a position. If nothing comes of it now, they’ll try later or use the Dallas pick(s) to try to move up in this year’s draft to get a potential key piece. I don’t see them drafting a bunch of young players in the teens and down with all our picks. They are going for a potential star by moving up in the draft or they are trading for one using those assets. One longshot possibility would be including Mitch and pick(s) for a very serious player.

  61. I had made my peace with the end of Frank’s time with this team, and then Thibs played him ahead of Rivers and he played well. And now it’s gonna hurt all over again when he’s traded before the deadline. I’m dumb.

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