So, the Knicks held off on naming their starting lineup for tonight’s game until practically right before game time and…well…it was a doozy.
To quote bobneptune from this morning, when the rumor was that they were going to start Alonzo Trier in the backcourt with RJ Barrett and also start Bobby Portis at center, he noted, “If Fiz is going to start trier with MR possibly out, isn’t it far more likely he will play Randle as the small ball 5, Morris at his more natural 4 and RJ at 3 with Trier at 2 and whomever starts at the 1???
But nahhhh…. Berman has to infer Fiz is going to do some off the wall shit on day one which is sure to piss off half the roster.”
Well….it seems like Fiz is doing some off the wall shit on day one which is sure to piss off half the roster.
Which is fun.
It is Trier and Barrett in the backcourt and Portis, Randle and Morris in the frontcourt.
Barrett apparently is nominally the point guard for the team, which is something.
But hey, it’s official, real live NBA action and until it doesn’t work, it is probably best to root that this all comes together. The Spurs aren’t exactly worldbeaters over there, so this could be a winnable game (it would be more so if Robinson played, of course, but hey, what are ya gonna do?).
So I will start the season off rooting for them to pull off the win and win as many games as possible.
So let’s go, Knicks!
315 replies on “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ Spurs – THE SEASON BEGINS!”
i don’t like trier starting.. i also think it doesn’t matter too much…. although trier getting major minutes means someone else is getting screwed out of minutes to start… one of the pg’s is definitely not seeing time… unless he’s gonna put them on the court together…. and ellington probably will see under 10…
we’re gonna give up a ton of points with this lineup…. hopefully we have enough offense…
re-post from prior thread
He proved that he’s the only guard on the team who can score at all 3 levels and doesn’t need to wait for a shitty pass from a scrub PG who can’t shoot.
Seriously, though, Trier handles the ball and passes as well as any of the PGs and is sneaky athletic (40? vertical.) Until Barrett learns how to score from beyond 3 feet, you can’t have two guards who might go 2-15 in the first quarter starting the game. This lineup has 5 scorers and rebounders who can all get to the line and 3 perimeter shooters.
Morant should be a goddamn Knick.
i approve of the drama. i mean, will we be the first team ever to play three back up point guards in a game without a starting point guard? could we play them all at once? are we sure lance thomas is 100pct not playing in this game?
PJ washington has already had a better career than knox
He averaged sub 3 assists per 36 last season. Sometimes he looks like he can pass, but he hasn’t shown he’s willing to actually do it regularly.
Add Thomas to the growing list of veterans who were deemed so bad by the other 29 teams that they essentially retired upon expiration of their Knicks contract.
@6 yes, agreed. He needs to learn to WANT to pass. But when he does, he’s as good at it as the others (because they ain’t that good at it.)
Fizdale (on the lineup): “Whether Mitchell was playing or not I probably was going to come to this conclusion.”
Lol, Bobby Portis new starting center confirmed.
This season is already going off the rails.
djphan, while I’d rather go small ball than play this lineup I don’t agree that the three nominal point guards got screwed out of minutes. They all played lousy in pre-season. None of them were good enough to be starters.
Personally I thought Frank was the best of the three and also Trier wasn’t starter level either, but Fizdale is allergic to playing defense without offense. And Frank did not not shoot like he did in FIBA. Overall, this is the same as last year. Fiz talked about defense in the pre-season, but he never makes any decisions in favor of it.
Well, welcome to another season of Knicks basketball…..
If I could figure out how to embed a gif of a dumpster fire I would….
Don’t worry, this lineup probably won’t be out there as a unit very long. Spurs will prob get RJ into foul trouble and a PG will come in.
For some reason, I’m dreading this season. I think Bobby Portis has something to do with that…
Hopefully he meant that he was going to start Trier whether Robinson was playing or not. I just refuse to believe he’s dumb enough to look at the team and say, “Yep, Bobby Portis should be starting over Robinson.”
Winter is coming!
I like what Fizdale is doing. He’s telling DSJr, Payton and Ntilikina that one of them better step it up.
He also said (the other day) that Trier wants to shed the “Iso” from his knick-name. Let’s see!
At the very least, shots are going up. This also puts a PG responsibility in RJ’s hands. Maybe, by accident, we found a point guard?
I. AM. READY.
Sidebar: work was so busy today my AD didn’t even have time to crack any #lolKnicks comments, let alone say something ’bout my outfit.
trier has a 1:1 ast/to ratio… that’s not good passing ability….
Rookies all tend turn the ball over too much…at least when he isn’t turning it over, he’s scoring or getting to the line.
Wally is better in the studio
Definitely prefer Payton as starter. Not sure where DSJr. fits into the organization now. Frank is going to struggle finding minutes if Trier is genuinely considered by Knicks as a pg candidate (or at least playing off Trier).
Interested to see what RJ can do as PG with some shooters around him. He hasn’t had this much shooting/spacing at Duke or preseason.
Beers & snacks are my starting forward.
Ready for Fizard magic !
Drama aside, would just like to shout out everyone on the board on the cusp of another season of Knicks basketball. KB is one of the few Knicks outlets I have, so I am thoroughly looking forward to another season of self-loathing with you all.
He’s bad in the studio, too, but yeah, not quite as bad as he is doing the actual game. It strains credulity that a New York team can’t have a better back-up announcer than him.
What’s the over/under on Kyrie Irving’s usage this season? He may compete with Harden.
Starting lineup aside, it looks like we will be wearing the new statement jerseys tonight. Gotta say this years jersey are one of the better alternate strips in recent years.
Genuinely excited to see some actual games that count.
Also would like to note that center Mitchell Robinson is likely to double the Stls/gm numbers of everyone in our opening night starting lineup.
Yoooooooo that suit on Clyde tho…
@10 – i meant someone is gonna get screwed out of minutes if trier is seeing play…. one of those pgs is not gonna see the floor today..
Clyde in mid-season form with that suit.
Clyde Stardust and the Flowers from Mars !
There’s Trier’s first TO
The Knicks scored first! It’s all easy sailing from here!
oh my god he actually went with trier at PG.
First Cronin jinx of the season. Hasn’t lost his fastball.
He didn’t. Trier is the SG. Barrett is the PG.
Trier has yet to shoot in 4 minutes lol
With 2 turnovers.
trier gets scored on 3x… rj gets pressured and loses the ball… and we have exclusively one pass possessions into contested shots…
yup.. not looking smart to start..
Reason to watch Knicks basketball
Walt and Breen
– Lunchpail Taj
Knicks looking like a well oiled machine
It’s legitimately impressive to me that Spurs fans are dedicated enough to boo over the Marcus Morris sweepstakes
Nice play by RJ.
Really nice RJ move!
RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson. Just gotta be patient.
Only down 6 !!!
Great Start !
I knew we lacked offense but this
Don’t worry Dennis Smith is in
Knicks 15% FG%
I think it is fair to say that Barrett as PG is not getting the Knicks into their offense
Marcus Morris should be the first player the Knicks actually flip since…Nazr Mohammed?
this is a much better lineup out there…
Not bad !
I was never worried we would be stuck on 2 points all night…
Wow, Trier, that was… what’s the opposite of ‘clutch’?
Smith Jr’s jump shot is really fugly
Whoever DSJr.’s shooting coach was this offseason should never work again.
You mean Keith Smart?
Dennis Smith Jr is good at getting to the basket and playing in transition. The Knicks should just let him master playing P&R and running the break instead of trying to turn him into Damian Lillard, but what do I know?
Who cares if he can’t shoot. Let him dunk on people, get fouled, and throw 90% of his passes to Mitch and Wayne.
I am sorry. Frank is a reason to watch the Knicks. If he is not on the bench.
RJ may not the ideal reward for 17 wins, but he looks like a piece.
Keith Smart got a lotta traction out of that one jumper vs. the ‘cuse
Pretty easy to see why Carlisle had no use for DSJr
Why is Ellington out there?
We re making Murray look like giannis
Nice sequence by DSjr, are the all-star ballots out yet?
Dejounte Murray is what we wish Frank Ntilikina was.
Clyde referred to some guy named Ellison, did we sign Purvis?
When he shoots the ball actually goes in sometimes
These Spurs fan filters making folks look like Raider fans…
Do we need Frank to slow down Dejounte Murray? That’s gotta be a new low.
RJ has impressed me, but he should not play PG.
Randle continues to underwhelm.
Too soon to extrapolate for the entire season?
DSJr. Might not make a jumper all season. The 8 seconds it takes him to release his shot now does not seem ideal to me.
Can I revise my wins prediction?
Knox looking better on these drives to the basket. Gotta convert, tho.
They had Ellenson last year!
Take dsjr out and put frank in!
Smith is an embarrassment defensively
Well at least DS Jr plays great defense
So about that DSJ defense…
It’s such a fascinatingly bad idea for a shot, right?
Patty Mills. Prepare for the greatest night of your life. Who had Bryn Forbes?
There is no way Morris doesn’t realize what a horrible mistake he made right about now right?
Frank now the 4th point guard is firmly in the dog box….
Someone seriously did call Forbes earlier!
Was not expecting Morris to be our best PG
That was a legit PG play by Payton. He gets my nod.
One of the few times I’ve disagreed with Clyde…re the Morris contract reneg.
I was worried we wouldn’t have a terrible unwatchable point guard with Mudiay gone but DSJ is stepping up, picking up that no defense bad offense torch.
Look at that-good ball movement and a good shot
Payton did a great job of organizing the team just there.
Pretty shitty start to the season so far but RJ has been good.
I’ll pat myself on the back for the Bryn Forbes call
I just wanna let it be known that I would be really fucking upset if the Knicks traded out of the 3 slot and let some other team take RJ Barrett.
Jowel’s man Brandon Clarke is a +23 in 11 minutes in a tie game……
If we trade Morris at halftime how many firsts can we get?
Payton coming in for DS Jr is like following a comedian on stage who just bombed. Hard to look bad.
The Knicks only look this good because Dejounte Murray isn’t on court. That kid is a baller.
So what’s the consensus on Barrett’s game so far? Doesn’t look too shabby so far.
I might have been too luke on Barrett. I still think Clarke will be better though.
Five turnovers from Ja.
lots of lady refs these days…
angry jonathan bender sure gets pushed out of the paint a lot for a dude with a chip on his shoulder
I will say, it’s pretty amazing to have nine boxscores to dissect. I feel like me and my camel have just rolled into the oasis….
Where was the foul?
If he bench DSJ we may have a slight chance of dignity
What’s the last season we didn’t have a bottom 5 guard rotation? Would you consider Prigs/Shump/JR? Probably have to go further back than that. Ancient Kidd/Prigs/Shump/JR? Marbury/Crawford?
Forbes it is
Tatum and Kemba a combined 8-29 vs Philly
why didn’t payton start…
randle with a good half so far…
Great play out of the time out…..
In my lifetime the only decent starting point guards we have had are Mark Jackson, Marbury for a year, and Jeremy Lin for a week
That was a pretty solid backcourt until the wheels fell off Kidd.
This coach refuses to bring in his best defensive player to slow down superstar Bryn Forbes…
Who is David Fizdoye?
Elfrid Payton is fouling like Mitch out there. He’s also clearly our best point guard.
charlie ward was pretty good
Marcus Morris for the Spurs first rounder?
It makes sense
And you’re right, Charlie Ward was pretty good. I think he wouldn’t have been good in the eighties or now but he was good then.
Our best PG in the past 5-6 years was Shane Larkin.
little known fact is that charlie’s career playoff bpm of 5.0 is 32nd all time for players with over 1000 playoff minutes
Fiz should have used the coach’s challenge on Morris/DeRozan pseudoffensive foul….
Is he keeping it for the last seconds?
Dennis Smith might want to start checking out some apartments in Shanghai
So much in the NBA depends on having a great point guard.
My only hope for this season is for Bobby Portis to be relegated to 15 minutes a night (primarily in relief of Randle) while Taj and Mitch play all of the minutes at center. He is almost singlehandedly killing us.
Orlando may prepare to be happy…. Fultz 6-12 with 6 assists in 23 minutes!!! Good for him….
That would be cruel.
RJ Barrett so far has had one of the better debut games by a Knick rookie in some time.
Pair that with his general promise and there’s reasons to be excited about him.
DeRozan with 1 point and the Spurs are up 8. Something tells me he gets hot in the 2nd half and the Knicks lose by 20+.
If our PG rotation is Frank and Payton and Mitch plays 28+ minutes a game while starting I think we’ll be okay. If DSJ plays at all and Portis gets more than 15-20 minutes a game we are in big trouble.
Meanwhile in Brooklyn, Karl Anthony Towns is singlehandedly beating Brooklyn.
I’d trade Mitch for that guy, and I love Mitch.
William Carlos was a huge fan of good point guard play, very appropriate…
my god the hate for dsj…. relax guys there’s 81 games left…
Damn, Barrett is very deliberate but effective to the basket. He has an ability to slow things down and finish.
Randle is a really good finisher
Barrett getting no respect from the refs I see.
RJ definitely showing the makeup you hope for from a rookie. plays hard, not scared, not whining, mostly in control.
Did we just have the lead?
Right now it seems clear to me Payton is better than Dennis Smith Jr.
DSJr is a BAD basketball player on both sides, doesn’t have a high basketball IQ, and has a bad back. Now we know why the Mavs were trying to dump him for a draft pick (and had no takers). Well, some of us knew, but not the Knicks. lmao
The problem is the politics.
You aren’t going to get anything worthwhile for him in a trade and this management has already embarrassed itself badly in a number of ways. They probably are not very anxious to admit another failure right away. So he’s going to play.
There’s athletic talent there. We can hope he suddenly puts it all together, but I see nothing on either side of the ball or in his BBall IQ to think he’s going to get really good on at least one side. I’d take a stale Twinkie for him in a trade just to get rid of him.
Randle is a load
So the Nets have gone from scrappy overachievers to the Kyrie Irving Show.
Enjoy the season Brooklyn!
Marcus Morris is such a quality player. Thank goodness for the Knicks trying to sign an injured Reggie Bullock!
didnt like that shot by morris
Portis is not a quality player. Aldridge is murdering him.
we’re gonna lose this game by like 5 pts and it’s gonna be because fizdale decided to ego trip….
There were two questions about him.
1. Outside shot
It was obvious he was very good at everything else for a SG before we drafted him. Now it appears he’s not a liability on defense and could actually get good.
I’ll take that player all day every day at 19. The shot is almost always the last thing to come. If it does (even if take 2-4 years), he’s going to a VERY good player.
O’Q with the trey!
Yeah, that last Morris shot was not so quality.
kyrie passed to Jarret Allen with 2.6 left in a tie game, Allen got fouled and then missed both free throws I wonder if Kyrie is going to throw another pass this season
nice drive rj, v nice
Damn, Barrett seems really strong for a 20 year old rookie.
We really could use a shot blocker
i hope it’s pretty clear by now that randle is not another enes kanter…
I’ve been harsh on Morris, but I’ve been watching him for years. He’s a pretty good player that’s a pinhead. We all know the type. He’s either lacking emotional control or basketball IQ. He will occasionally do incredibly dumb things. You just have to hope he doesn’t do them at critical points in key games.
Knox is still out of control dribbling the ball I see.
I don’t get the Spurs. They just put together this weird assortment of players and expect Pop to use his magic to get them to 49 wins. Which he can do, but is that really the best use of his skills?
I know positions don’t matter but Payton does seem to be the straw that stirs the drink…
I think Pop wants guys he feels he can coach and sometimes that means putting together a weird assortment of guys who are willing to play for him.
hey this is fun. i’m rooting for frank to spell payton.
Spurs looking like trash!
14 steals? Uh, okay!
You guys I think, I think maybe this team might be fun?
Jesus, Payton has 5 steals alone.
At PF he’s not because you don’t need the rim protection. But when he’s playing PF, you can have spacing issues unless you have the right combination of players with him or he gets consistent enough from outside to not take away from the fact that he’s better inside.
We are going to finish near the bottom of the league in total passes.
Barrett’s already the best player on the team and he’s gotten progressively better as the real season has gotten closer and then started. Finally a real, versatile, non-fragile, normal guy to build around.
If Frank N actually ends up playing some in the 4th quarter, I’m taking credit. A few days ago I (half jokingly, to be honest) suggested that Frank play only in the 4th b/c he seems to play by far his best late in games.
Maybe Fiz reads this board?
Still, I expect DNP for Frankie.
Who knows how long it lasts but RJ looks decidedly not like a teenager
we’re a pretty good passing team… shooting is a different story but we’re gonna look good when morris and rj hit 80% of their shots…
I cannot believe the Knicks were lucky enough to draft RJ Barrett. I wanted him on the Knicks ever since he dropped like 45 on the USA in the U18 FIBA tournament, and it actually happened. We have an elite wing prospect who may already be a good NBA basketball player.
DSJ doesn’t look too happy on that bench.
Crap, Frank in early…
Morris is such a knucklehead.
Taj you gotta finish that old man
Omg, sit Frank he’s fucking it all up.
With as physical as Barrett already looks to the basket I am surprised he doesn’t draw so many fouls.
Taj Gibson tried to dunk that from retirement lol. Lay it up bro.
Man, Taj looks bad out there.
Of course, he’s in too early!
He should change his last name to Harden!
Damn Frank, you got to finish that.
I was going to clown frank but that was a goaltend.
despite the goaltend it was a classic frankie smokes play. you gotta finish that.
LOL @ the hometown officiating here.
No wonder these guys are so hard to beat in SA.
Morris made that foul happen.
Frank just brain-farted and Morrised doubled-down.
Kyrie Irving had 50 points in a loss. Wow.
Is Frank on the Spurs already?
ladies and gentlemen we have a new tank commander!
Listen folks this Frank kid is a project
That’s my Frank!
Get that fucking guy out of the game
This version of Knox where he just shoots 3s and transition shots still isn’t good, but it’s certainly an improvement.
Frank on the other hand…
Damn Barrett is destroying whoever is defending him 1 on 1.
I love how Barrett took that all the way with a power layup. That’s a kid that wants the ball with the game on the line and won’t be denied!
RJ needs to work on his right hand. But not today.
LEFT HANDED THE WHOLE TIME TAKE THAT REGGIE MILLER.
RJ is a slashing beast !
Very impressive debut for RJB!
jesus… rj is like lebron out there driving to the hoop…
@187 – Sounds about right. The Nets 2019-20 story.
Poor Frank, he’s on a breakaway, there is a goal tending and he doesn’t get the call.
I have two hopes for RJ Barrett:
1) I hope Fidale doesn’t Thibodeau him.
2) I hope he never works out with Kobe Bryant in the off season.
RJ shooting nothing but layups, dunks and 3 pointers.
Get frank out of there
That last drive by RJ was maybe his most impressive. White is no chump on defense and RJ took that to the hole with ease.
Frank’s entry passes are so bad.
The guys guarding RJ know he’s going left and they still can’t stop him
Lord. Frank. This is not FIBA.
Get Frank’s sorry ass on the fucking bench
Holy fucking shit that guy sucks
Knox becoming a 3 ball and transition player might work out if that’s all he does.
That’s enough Frank for a while. I’ve had more than enough Frank to last me for quite some time
i thought it was impossible to have a worst stint than dsj’s first half revolving door D with a bunch of hitch pullups. then frank came in.
I flipped to the nets channel after knowing they had the ball with 14 seconds left in overtime. The first words I heard were “and a heartbreaking loss…” AAAAWWWWW, POOR BAAABIES!!!!
There might be hope for Knox yet. Just shoot 3s my boy.
I told you Knox was good! ( ok I didn’t)
I also take great pleasure in noting that Porzingis still rebounds like a kid who got dumped after college.
somehow kyrie had 50 and 7 assists with zero turnovers
It should be said the Efrid has 7 assists, 5 steals, and no turnovers. That is not a line I have seen in a while in orange and white.
And wow, that’s an amazing line from Kyrie
Knox: gain strength, shoot threes, and rebound, please.
I like it when Kevin Knox hits a lot of shots.
Bellinelli moonlights as a renaissance artist…
That’s what Wayne Ellington is on the team for
kp is in trouble if half his shots are coming from 3p land…
Not exactly a defensive clinic out there at the moment.
They’re gonna put Portis back in and we’re gonna lose.
Payton is +20 for the game.
Damn, Knox had pushed off by DeRozan.
Here’s where we lose the lead.
Knox getting abused on defense. He still has problems defending the wing.
DeRozan is a bad matchup for him
Knox’s D has been embarrassing, but the Spurs have looked bad, too.
DeRozan is stir frying Knox. Gotta get him out of the game for Morris.
Once Mitch is back to defend the rim, we might actually have a team…
That was such a bullshit foul call on Knox. RJ would have five and 1’s if they called those on the Spurs.
Knox still has much to learn on defense. He failed to guard the baseline on DeRozan.
Knox needs to gain 25 pounds and retain his present athleticism. On offense he declines contact (unlike RJ) because he can’t absorb it. And the inverse is true on defense.
Knox has no hope of guarding DeRozan.
Payton is a million times better than the other two pretender point guards on this roster. If this team wants to scratch out some wins they should find another reasonably competent point guard. Frankie Smokes and DSJ were both absolute black holes in this and Payton has 5 fouls so it’s looking like an uphill climb to pull this out.
Payton has had injuries that have distorted his stats and progress. I’ve been saying all along that when he’s healthy he might be a legitimate starting PG in this league. The questions have been his outside shot and defense, but he’s been WAY peskier on defense for the Knicks so far than in games I’ve watched him play elsewhere. If he can defend, you give him the keys to the car for now because he’s clearly a good playmaker and can also rebound. You can live him not being a very good outside shooter at this stage if he’s doing everything else well.
Wayne Ellington got signed by the Knicks and clearly forgot he was still Wayne Ellington.
Wishing they were swishing
I think we need a TO
Jesus christ make a fucking shot
Oh here are the Knicks I know.
This is some loosey goosey basketball out there by both teams. It’s like a scrimmage where the Spurs are just hitting more of their shots.
Have no idea how Payton missed that layup
Didn’t look bad but Randle looks really upset
Hopefully Randle is just cramping
Insane how Morris never passes the ball and how bad Knox is on D
looked like a cramp.. esp since they’re still treating it..
Maybe put Payton back in? Hasn’t fouled out yet.
Has RJ taken a shot in the 4th?
This game is over put in the kids
At least they’re using all their fouls.
This is some unbelievably shitty basketball here in the last few minutes
The Spurs get the Popovich whistle….
When I saw him live a few times last year it was obvious that one of his major problems on both sides was strength. He was so thin he looked like a young boy playing against men. It also hurts his rebounding. The good thing is that he’s very young and will fill out. The major problem is that he’s not a defender at all (at least not yet) which means he’s going to have to be pretty elite on offense to become a good player.
Bobby Portis is gonna get David Fizdale fired.
Just when I started to believe we could win the game…
So you’re saying it was a good signing?
Randle back in!
Barrett gets to the basket better in the NBA somehow
Man, if RJ develops a decent outside shot…
Kornet >>> Portis
There were some positives from this game. Payton should be playing the lion’s share of PG minutes, he’s not a terrible player. Barrett and Randle both played good overall games.
Most everybody else was kind of bad, Morris really stunk it up in the fourth, Knox was a liability on defense, the other point guards looked unplayable, and the other vets (Gibson/Ellington/Portis) didn’t do much.
Someone explain to me again why Payton didn’t start?
The unintentional tank lives another year!
Call me crazy but we win this game if Mitch plays. Bobby Portis is terrible.
Frank’s performance reminded of when my son played travel ball and they’d put some kid in who never gets to play because his parents were there. And the coach would yank him after 2 minutes.
He really does, I know this is some serious eyetest here but it really seems like his drives are more balanced and under control, and that he has more finesse once he gets near the hoop. I watched him a lot at Duke and to my “random guy on the internet” eye test it seems like he worked his ass off over the summer.
Fiz was trying to play fifth dimensional chess. It did not go well. It’s like, dude, try to be decent at checkers first.
As far as I can tell it’s because he shot poorly in the 67 minutes he played in the preseason, which is another tick in the ‘this front office fundamentally doesn’t know what it’s doing’ column.
Kyrie went for 50/8/7 and the Nets still lost to the T-Wolves? lmao
The Nets are going to find out that some of the role players they tossed to make room for Kyrie and Durant were responsible for more wins last year than they thought.
Classy move by Pop after the game, consoling Morris. Hopefully he said, “Don’t worry, we’ll trade a first rounder for you.”
I actually feel kind of good about this game. RJB and Randle looked pretty good. Add in Mitch and maybe a legit foundation is being laid. Payton is a decent “hold the fort” PG. Maybe add another 1st round pick later in a trade. Knox might have his uses as a shooter off the bench, maybe.
Put it next to, “Let’s go sign Bobby Portis and possibly start him over Mitch Robinson.” I really hope that’s not what Fiz meant when he said Robinson being healthy wouldn’t have affected the starting lineup decision.
because fiz was ego tripping by sending a message instead of trying to win… when you’re pop or carlisle or made it past your second contract even… you get to do that… not when you’re fiz…
this was a good loss…. any loss where rj plays well is gonna be a good one… i’ve always harped on the importance of 2p shooting with prospects and getting to the basket and converting… that is the basis for everything… strong line and performance from him…
randle with a very strong game also and he looked good doing it…
knox’s 3p shot always looked pretty but everything else is just soso bad… eventually fiz has to realize this….
portis is gonna kill us defensively….
let’s get mitch back… cut the fat from the rotation…. and this should be an entertaining season…
@270 you cannot stink in an open competition and then be rewarded. All 3 of our PGs were bad so none of them started. It’s clearly Elfrid Payton’s job to lose, which is a decent bar to set for our 2017 draft class, but I can’t say I hated the move. Trier sucked and got shut down. Dennis Smith Jr sucked and got shut down. Frank sucked and got shut down. Payton kept his minutes and that’s really all you can ask for.
Accountability this season means more than what you did last year. It took Fizdale 7 minutes to pull the plug on Trier and I don’t mind that.
So it looks like between Payton, Barrett, Morris, Randle, and Robinson the Knicks have a good starting line up.
RE Trier, DSJ, and Frank. I don’t blame giving each a quick hook, b/c all three were brutal tonight, but that also will mean all of them will be playing scared all the time when they get in.
Maybe the thing to do is pick ONE right now as the backup PG to Payton. Give that guy a solid 15-16 mpg for awhile? If he doesn’t shape up, go to the next guy, etc. It’s a long season.
I mean, I don’t know what to say about Barrett other than that he has definitely looked like he belongs in the NBA. Maybe zone defenses in college were harder for him.
He’s definitely Zoolander. He can’t shoot. Bad at the line. The passing hasn’t been that great. But he’s a lot smarter on the floor on offense and defense than I expected.
I have my doubts but I am rooting fucking hard for RJ right now…
I’ll put forth two explanations:
(1) Absolutely no one one Duke could shoot the ball
(2) The defensive 3 seconds rule in the NBA does a lot to open up he painted area
If we had 30 minutes of Mitch instead of 35 minutes of Bobby Portis this is a W.
Payton has historically played significantly better ball than Frank or Smith. Even if it was an open competition, Payton should have kept his spot.
Also, it’s categorically dumb to hold an open competition in preseason. Any sample size you get will be too small over 4 games.
I disagree that a guy who played just as bad as, if not worse than, Dennis Smith Jr and Frank Ntilikina should be guaranteed a starting spot.
Not like Payton is a good player, but based on his NBA career he’s obviously the choice to play the most until/if one of the other guys shows something. As an organization you should understand that pre-season performance isn’t really predictive. Why are you holding an open competition based on 60 minute pre-season samples? They don’t tell you anything.
this isn’t the same rj as in college… he definitely has worked very hard on his game and he’s gotten a lot smarter out there…. his dribble drives are not exactly sophisticated now but it’s come a long way since college already…. he’s already gotten lower when hitting traffic… guys sometimes take years to do that!
this happened over the course of the duke season where he got that chucker rep but slowly evolved to something less like that by the tourney…
summer league started out like that too but a switch turned on to cut it out.. which is pretty rare! like usually doesn’t happen… that’s a very strong signal of maturity and awareness…
he’s not gonna be this crazy getting to the basket but if he’s really over 50% from 2p land … that is superstar territory for a SG/SF… and i had guys like jason richardson and jalen rose in his average comp list… well the optimistic case was paul pierce and vince carter…
it’s the first game but the signs from the tail end of summer league and preseason are showing some really promising things and he’s now bringing all that into the regular season .. and the comp doesn’t get any realer than the spurs….
so opening night disclaimers aside… you should be getting very excited.. this could be the start of something big….
I mean presumably Fiz had some data from training camp too, but yeah, it’s pretty dumb.
Is Portis really deserving of all this hate? He had a rough shooting night but had 7 boards, 5 assists and 2 steals with only 1 turnover. He posted a -5, playing against one of the best offensive bigs in the league. I saw him play some decent defense on smaller guys on switches.
He’s not worth $15 mill but he’s not a bad backup.
Well, we only saw 60 preseason minutes, but Payton had a whole training camp to separate himself from those two (who might not be in the league in four years) and clearly didn’t do a good enough job to earn a starting nod. I hate to differ to “things unseen” but there is more evidence than we as fans have access to.
It’s now Payton’s job to lose, which it obviously should have been all along, but when you’re trying to establish accountability it’s not a good idea to say “hey this guy who is on his 4th team in 3 years (ORL to PHX, NOP, now NYK) was around league average last year so he’s getting the benefit of the doubt.”
Meanwhile the Celts got a taste of what it’s like depending on Kanter’s D. And the Nets lost. And KP didn’t play like a superstar. And we played our asses off for 42 minutes against a really well coached team with lots of good players. All in all, it was about as good of a Knicks loss night as a level-headed fan could reasonably expect.
@286 Bobby Portis did nothing to protect the rim and grabbed 7 rebounds from the center position. His appeal is as a floor spacing big and he missed all of his 3s. And then Fizdale was running plays for him, which made me want to take a straw broom to his bald head and cemented my hate for Bobby Portis.
Yeah, there does seem to be a strong makeup here. I mean, they say that about every touted rookie but there does seem to be some evolution.
I don’t know, it will end in tears and/or hilarious jokes. It always does.
If you added a good solid PG to this team, not an all-star, just a Jrue Holliday or Mike Conley type , we’re a borderline playoff team.
Drummond went berserk tonight.
@290 you shut your filthy mouth and take that back!
RJ Barrett will lead us to the promise land.
On the other hand, Conley with the 1-16 for 3 points…
RJ was 9-10 inside the arc and I don’t remember him taking any jump shots. Obviously he’s not going to keep that up but if he focuses on shooting inside the paint and from 3 I’d be thrilled.
His problem is partly mental/basketball maturity. He lacks confidence to an extreme like I’ve never seen from a pro at anything. He’s afraid to make a mistake and get yanked or cost the team the game. You can see it in his face and in his body language. That tension and pressure is creating more mistakes. The problem is these are mostly meaningless games in a season that’s almost sure to end out of the playoffs and this in his 3rd season as a pro. He’s supposed to be way past this point.
He was probably more relaxed in France because he knew the coach, knew he had the job, and knew if he had a crap game he wasn’t going to be out of the rotation. Right now he’s fighting for a slot and minutes and he’s right back to where he was last year.
IMO, yanking him is 100% the wrong thing to do, but you can’t blame the coach after he made 2 unforced errors in 2 minutes of play in a close game.
It’s a serious character flaw to be this mentally weak. I hate to say that because I’m rooting for him to put it all together given his potentially elite talent on defense. But if he doesn’t toughen up he’s
never going to get where he’s capable of going.
Despite the criticisms he gets here from a few people that are more interested in being right about him and that actually seem to enjoy his bad nights so they can gloat, imo there is a potentially very valuable player still in there that someone is eventually going get out. It just may not be the Knicks and it may not be for quite awhile. For his own benefit, he might be better off going elsewhere where he can be develop slowly and quietly.
Well that reverted to shitty real fast
He’s clearly not a starter on a good team (especially at C). It’s also hard to play him as the stretch PF he’s supposed to be when Randle (who should not play C either) is the centerpiece of your team and you have other PFs/Cs on the team that deserve minutes.
Management did a horrible job of fitting the pieces together well. It’s all meaningless though. He’s a 1 year overpaid mercenary. I don’t think he’ll be back.
In the mean time, playing him as the backup C is not a disaster.
My big complaint about this team.
No real backup center.
No real point guard.
I don’t understand why we let Luke Kornet go so Bobby Portis can suck for us being paid more money.
I for one did not enjoy Frank’s bad night.
Again, if you are looking at his yearly stats imo they are misleading because he’s been hurt and playing at less than 100% on and off. This should have been his job from the start. IMO, the only thing that has prevented that is that management WANTS to give the job to DSjr to save face on the KP trade after the free agency/cap space asset was a debacle. Are we still paying Noah?
DSJr is a bad basketball player on both sides at this stage. The sooner they realize that the better for the team.
You’re a passionate Knicks fan and want to win as much as any of us, but imo your deep seeded idea of perfection would be the Knicks winning despite Frank sucking. lol
My idea of perfection is winning because Frank, Robinson, and RJ are breaking out.
I hated that we selected Knox over Bridges. I think he was horrible last year. He was Frank bad squared. But I’m praying I am wrong about him and everyone calls me an a-hole if he winds up being way better than Bridges .
Being right about the Knicks being bad is a big part of what we do around here…
Oh man if the Knicks had BOTH Kornet and Robinson at the 5 tonight? San Antonio would have been done in 36 minutes.
Okay so that’s an exaggeration but Kornet and Robinson would have been 48 minutes of good defensive basketball at the center position and I really hate that we have $15M worth of Bobby Portis and not Kornet for $2M. That move was terribly dreadful and the only signing from this off season that I 100% hate and blame Steve Mills for.
Tonight (and this preseason) made me a little more hopeful for Kevin Knox. He’s a 20 year old who is already the best shooter on our roster, and just needs to figure it out defensively in order to be a plus starter in this league. What DeRozan did to him tonight tells me that he’s likely never going to be a good defender, but 8 months ago I was certain Knox would never be good at anything and here we are today with Kevin Knox as a good 3PT shooter. I think the jury is still out on him, and this summer I was certain he’d be small forward Tony Wrotten.
I just calls ‘em like I sees ‘em. I have no emotional investment in Frank Ntilikina’s terribleness. It doesn’t bring me satisfaction. I’d rather see him succeed. I liked him as a prospect in the first place! Then I watched him play a bunch.
It’s you who seems irrationally invested in the outcome of this guy’s career. You might want to consider the idea that maybe, just maybe, he might not be an NBA caliber player.
I mean it’s just two (bad) minutes. Whatever. Hopefully he’ll be able to play some D on Kyrie without throwing the ball to the other team every time friday.
I think Portis is fine. He absolutely should not be starting and should be Randle’s backup. For 15-20 minutes a night off the bench he is just fine, overpaid but it’s not my money so I don’t really care. People also need to stop with the rose-colored glasses with Kornet. He is a bad defender. He occasionally blocks a shot but is overall bad on defense, is a liability rebounding the ball, and can’t score inside the arc at all. I think Mitch helps this team a lot and as long as he is starting and getting 25-30 minutes a game I am fine with Portis.
Barrett was awesome, but he is not a point guard and both times he was out there by himself our offense completely stagnated. Payton was great and should definitely start and play as much as possible. As for Frank it was bad, he actually came in a made two good plays, a nice pass to Taj on a blown dunk and then a steal that resulted in a layup that should have been a goaltend, but then he committed two of the worst turnovers I’ve ever seen. Those kind of turnovers are unacceptable, I still think he is a better option than DSJ who is completely useless but if he doesn’t get better fast we should just relegate both him and DSJ to G-League and play Allen as Payton’s backup.
So were holding players accountable, but not coaches? Fizdale gets a pass for deciding against starting our best point guard? You give the league average guy the benefit of the doubt when literally every other pg candidate on your roster has never played anything remotely close to average ball.
Also, winning is more important than accountability.
I dunno, maybe Fiz felt a message to Payton was necessary? Our best line up was Payton, Morris, Barrett, Randle, and Portis. Portis was the weak link. I would not have said that’s a well rounded 5 but it worked on both ends. Inserting Frank made it worse, inserting Knox even worse. Mitch improves that on defense but probably not on offense since we were scoring inside anyway. But we didn’t lose because of Portis, we lost because only that lineup actually knew what they were doing and every other combo was either clueless or not up to the task (Knox, who got what was going on but couldn’t execute).
Completely true The first two offensive plays were excellent but those two terribly careless/weak entry passes where unforgivable and I like Frank. Whatever he is going to have to play minutes vs Kyrie or Wilt’s record might be in jeopardy.
If Fiz has any brain DSJr will have transient “back spasms” Friday…..
I didn’t get to watch the game. What happened with Trier? Did he only get 7 minutes because he wasn’t playing well? I can guess why DSJ & Ntilikina didn’t play much- DSJ because he’s not healthy, and Ntilikina because Payton has been able to drive more. I’m hoping there’s something else goin on with Trier. 7 minutes as a starter then yanked only to not see the floor again will crush anyone’s confidence.
I didn’t like the starting 5 at all. Portis should have still come off the bench. Ntilikina should have gotten some burn to help us contain the Spurs guards. What is Fiz doing?
It’s what I said the other day when predicting the win total. This team was put together very poorly. There’s no backup rim protector. There should be 2 guys backing up the injury/foul prone Robinson. We didn’t need Ellington or Portis. Had those two been legit centers I would have been much happier.
RJ looked great. So did Randle and Morris. We have Mitch. That’s 4/5 of a functional lineup. We need that 5th starter. Payton looked good except for his shot which sucks. He needs a shooting instructor to work with him – and not the Smart guy that worked with DSJr because that was a failure.
Knox improved on offense but someone’s going to need to teach him on-man defense. Why hasn’t that happened yet?
A french caller into the Knicks Post Game live Youtube channel complained that Frank isn’t playing like he played in France even as a youngster. As a 16 year old he drove the lane with abandon. As I was listening I concluded that Frank just isn’t cut out for NY. He was lost out there.
DSJr did not look like himself yesterday. Forget the poor form jumper, he looked slow. I think he’s not healthy enough for the NBA game. Just a thought. He was slow and had no bounce. Oh, and that jumper that he worked on all summer … where was that?