ESPN.com: Dallas Mavericks agree to trade with New York Knicks for Kristaps Porzingis

Why would you even want the cap space though? Without KP the team is so bad even signing KD wouldn’t make us a contender. Why not just keep Lee and THJ, trading KP for as many picks as you can get?

It either better be a lottery pick we’re getting, or there’s already a verbal agreement with two max FAs.

Shams saying KP will tell Dallas he’s going to sign the QO. Does that scupper the deal?!

KP wanting the QO is fascinating. I really don’t know where he is going with that.

Fuck the New York Dolans. Let’s all choose another team and stay together.

Well, they now have the room to re-sign Vonleh and Mudiay.

@5 – excellent point.

Can’t wait to see the DSJ / French Prince backcourt! It’s about to get LIT.

Frank/DSJr will lead us to the promised land.

We’re probably going to trade frank to get the 1m guarantee on lance’s contract off our books…

We’re probably going to trade frank to get the 1m guarantee on lance’s contract off our books…

You kid, but Phil once traded a second rounder (which would be this year’s second rounder, which is currently set to be the first pick of the second round) to clear $3 million that was expiring!

At least we finally have a player in the Slam Dunk Competition! Has there been anyone since Nate Rob?

Mavs want to pair KP with Doncic
Knicks want to pair Knox with DSJr

at least THJr is off the books

i need a hug.

What the fuck??

1. We all want to get rid of THJ’s and Lee’s contracts
2. We spend months explaining why KP is not worth the max and that maybe we’re better trading him sooner than later
3. Many people wanted DSJ instead of Frank

Beware your wishes KBloggers… 🙂

I’m still waiting on the pick details before reacting, but I’m pretty surprised at how overwhelmingly negative it is here.

So many of us have said that trading KP before the extension was preferable to giving him 5/$156M after 3 mediocre years and one injured year. I have to admit it’s painful because it looked like KP had a chance at being our best player since Ewing, but his development stalled and then he tore his ACL. If you take the win curve seriously, this could very well wind up being the correct move.

my nose literally started bleeding from the knicks trade lmao

It’s not about the decision to deal him, which is definitely defensible. It’s about the fact that they used the deal to clear space rather than get assets. That means you’re 100% all-in on the idea that you’re getting something fantastic with that space this summer, otherwise you effectively gave away a huge chunk of his value. If they sign Durant and Kawhi this summer we’ll all be eating our words, but for now this is a tremendous risk. Because if you just use that space in a mediocre fashion you’re adding on to what is currently like a 15-win level core.

Fuck.
This.
Team.

I love you guys, but enough.

I agree. I think this board should consider rebranding itself as a non-team-affiliated statistically-leaning basketball/music/Deadwood forum for erstwhile Knicks fans.

Aren’t they getting DSJ and possibly 2 first round picks out of it?

Right??

It’s been, what, three hours since the meeting?? I went to the dentist a few hours ago and didn’t even know this was brewing. They panic traded before I even got home.

This can’t possibly be what actually happened right? I mean we joke but they aren’t seriously stupid enough to just trade him to whoever gets them on the phone first following the meeting, right?

The more logical explanation (which, Dolan’s razor, obviously does not imply is what happened here) is they were seriously considering trading him and had already solicited offers all over the place, called a meeting to see if things could be patched up/take the temperature, and when they decided to trade him after the meeting they leaked that he “implied that he wanted to be traded” to make him seem like the bad guy and went with the offer they’d already settled on. The other possibility is just too absurd even for the Knicks.

This can’t possibly be what actually happened right? I mean we joke but they aren’t seriously stupid enough to just trade him to whoever gets them on the phone first following the meeting, right?

The more logical explanation (which, Dolan’s razor, obviously does not imply is what happened here) is they were seriously considering trading him and had already solicited offers all over the place, called a meeting to see if things could be patched up/take the temperature, and when they decided to trade him after the meeting they leaked that he “implied that he wanted to be traded” to make him seem like the bad guy and went with the offer they’d already settled on. The other possibility is just too absurd even for the Knicks.

Oh yeah, they totally had this planned for a while and just leaked the news to put the blame on KP. Mills is good at at least one thing, blaming others.

If they used KP mostly as sweetener, that’s fucking moronic. That’s why I’m waiting on the pick details.

There’s zero chance a deal this huge came together in the 25 minutes between the initial Woj tweet and the trade news breaking. They’ve clearly been shopping him for a while and concluded this was the best return. I guess they could’ve waited some more but it’s impossible to say what the value of that would’ve been.

Wut da fuck? Did we just trade KP for cap space? Couldn’t we get a Lonzo Ball or some asset in return? You’ve got to be kidding me.

I am really sad about this.

KP never had a full season of greatness, but he had flashes.

About 2 years ago, I lost a very good friend very young to cancer. He and I went to a lot of Knicks games, starting in the mid-1980s. When he was fighting his disease, I could make him smile by talking about the bad old days of watching and listening to Hubie Brown cuss out the team in a half-empty MSG. I could also make him smile by talking about “Porzinigis” as our hope for the future. I would paint a picture of my friend beating cancer and the two of us watching Porzingis lead the Knicks back to the promised land.

Well, it was not to be. My friend passed. In the last two years, whenever I thought about Porzingis, I thought about my friend. I thought about the possibility that Porzingis really would lead the team back to the promised land, and how I would toast my friend on that day.

Now, I’m just sad all over again.

Man a Luka/KP combo is potentially sooooo tasty to build around too. Why is it never us who gets to have nice things?

Did we manage to get any picks?

Also, this might very well pay off and Zion, KD and Kyrie are all Knicks next season and that’d be great. However, it is important to note that whether that happens or not, this clearly wasn’t the “patient” play. In other words, Mills is as full of shit as always.

TWO FIRSTS!!!!!!!

Shams says it’s two future 1sts. That isn’t bad depending on the protections.

Two firsts, but they’ll be from a team that has Porzingis and Doncic. (And Timmy, who may be able to finally achieve his proper destiny as a sixth man.)

Two firsts, but they’ll be from a team that has Porzingis and Doncic. (And Timmy, who may be able to finally achieve his proper destiny as a sixth man.)

I am not so convinced this means as much in the WC to be honest.

We’ve got to be able to get something for Wesley Matthews and DeAndre Jordan, no?

2021 and 2023?

@65

Dallas sure is gambling a lot on KP coming and being ready to stay healthy under what will most probably be a very lucrative contract.

I’m totally down with this. There was NO WAY KP was going to up the requisite stats to justify a 4 or 5 year max. And if they wind up with 1 or more firsts on top of that…NICE! Especially if they’re in the lottery.

There’s the possibility of moving DJ or WM for assets, like cap space for next season.

My least favorite part is getting DSJ. But I’ll give him a chance to win me over.

We still need many more details but it’s looking like you can’t coherently want the Knicks to abide by the win curve and also be against this trade.

This trade is all about trying to sign two max free agents this offseason. That might work, but I don’t think it says anything about the win curve.

in a wait-for-buyout scenario, don’t those teams have to bank on being the only team interested in either?

One of the firsts better be this year if it lands in the top 5.

~11% chance Dallas has a pick to trade this year (based on current standings…).

One of the firsts better be this year if it lands in the top 5.

It’s tricky with the Stepien rule, though, right? Because they’ll owe the Hawks their first rounder next year also top five protected if it doesn’t convey this year.

I agree with you that this is probably what it came down to for this group, but when you evaluate the trade purely on its own merits it’s a trade you would think, say, Sam Hinkie would make.

Yes, they will probably do some incredibly stupid shit with the money but it’s not fair to take that into account…yet.

I disagree because the trade specifically built dumping Lee and THJ’s contract into it. Hinkie would take on contracts like THJ and Lee to get assets, not treat the dumping of their salary as the asset, like here.

It’s tricky with the Stepien rule, though, right? Because they’ll owe the Hawks their first rounder next year also top five protected if it doesn’t convey this year.

You can get swap rights. It increases our chances of Zion. That should have been our number one priority.

If Dallas can acquire another pick this year – which apparently they were at least trying to do – they can give us their pick 1-5 this year and keep the other one. That would suddenly add a fair chunk of value with the flattened odds.

I disagree because the trade specifically built dumping Lee and THJ’s contract into it. Hinkie would take on contracts like THJ and Lee to get assets, not treat the dumping of their salary as the asset, like here.

This is true, but who’s to say the Mavs were willing to give up more assets if not for the salary dump? Two firsts is pretty hefty as is, especially for a team with one good (well, amazing) young player right now. It’s quite possible that three firsts was a no, but two and the salary dumps was fine.

I guess we could’ve potentially taken on Barnes for extra assets, but again, it’s impossible to say. They may (stupidly) view him as part of their core going forward. Also, if the Knicks really do have good reason to believe they could get two elite players this summer it would be silly to completely disregard that out of hand.

We’ll have to wait-and-see.

The Charlie Ward streak of Knick rookie extensions lives on for another year!

chriskZIPCODE
January 31, 2019 at 4:44 pm
i need a hug.

I can’t believe they did this to you on your name day.

I am going to miss KP, I own his jersey. I’ve been concerned about his skirmishes with management throughout his tenure. I certainly don’t believe he earned a max contract yet, and am pretty sure he would have held out for the max. Rumors swirled that KP was disappointed the Knicks were maneuvering to sign free agents with their cap money before extending him. For KP not to understand they get more with that tactic signals he is not a team player. I’m disappointed they gave up on him, but I understand the logic. Can’t wait for the stories of Dennis Smith terrorizing Frank during practice.

if nothing else, the news about the picks breaks the long-lasting Knick tradition that all additional trade information after the initial report is increasingly catastrophic

I was just thinking that. That is a nice change of pace.

wes and deandre make a shit ton. dealing htem will be rough. lucky to get a 2nd, is my guess.

But my point is even if that doesn’t happen, the trade still seems defensible from a rebuilding perspective. Without the two firsts I would be apoplectic, but it’s a unique trade in that it actually serves both purposes well.

But you don’t do this trade to not spend that money this offseason, right? So that money’s getting spent no matter if it is on KD and Kyrie or Kemba and, like, Cousins. Otherwise, don’t get me wrong, I totally see your point and I’m totally fine with the idea of following the win curve by trading KP now for future assets. I just don’t think that this is that.

I’m still waiting on the pick details before reacting, but I’m pretty surprised at how overwhelmingly negative it is here.

So many of us have said that trading KP before the extension was preferable to giving him 5/$156M after 3 mediocre years and one injured year. I have to admit it’s painful because it looked like KP had a chance at being our best player since Ewing, but his development stalled and then he tore his ACL. If you take the win curve seriously, this could very well wind up being the correct move.

This is a good take.

FWIW I have no qualms with trading him. What makes me furious is that they chose cap space over assets, as if Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard are suddenly going to sign here bc we have enough space.

And also this trade implies that they like Dennis smith Jr. That upsets me a lot, too.

You’re telling Brooklyn wouldn’t have done KP for Allen and two picks? I would have taken that all day and been happy, even with MitchGod.

Idk, if we can flip DeAndre for a 1st, that means it’s 3 firsts and DSJ, I think alone that’s a decent haul for a broken KP, not even accounting for the expirings…

A first for Jordan might be a stretch given he is an expiring. Really only worth that to a contender, so it would be a very late 1st. I would be content on moving Matthews and Jordan for a handful of 2nd’s tbh.

The deal looks way better with the 2 firsts. To me the deal feels like something in the middle of clearing cap space and rebuilding. The picks (pending further details) somewhat keep the rebuild on track taking into account we are keeping our own picks for the near future.

Hmmm….a gaggle of #1 picks…what is the NO area code????

FWIW I have no qualms with trading him. What makes me furious is that they chose cap space over assets, as if Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard are suddenly going to sign here bc we have enough space.

And also this trade implies that they like Dennis smith Jr. That upsets me a lot, too.

You’re telling Brooklyn wouldn’t have done KP for Allen and two picks? I would have taken that all day and been happy, even with MitchGod.

Normally I’d agree, but like I said to BC the asset package seems pretty hefty as is. It’s a little hard to believe they could’ve gotten more, whether they dumped the contracts or not.

DSJ is a total flyer in this trade. I’m on the record as thinking there’s some intrigue in there but it really doesn’t matter at all. Getting anything from him would be a bonus as far as I’m concerned. The picks are what matter.

I do not think that Sean Marks would do that.

Trade is officially official. Even the official press release doesn’t have the details on first rounders. I’d really like to know the nitty gritty there.

If the Knicks were smart and committed to a rebuild they could use DeAndre or Wes to take on a bad contract for pick(s), but you know

FWIW, Stephen A is all worked up

It seems like KP is serious about at least considering the QO this summer. That would be insanely stupid and I hope for his own sake he doesn’t wind up taking it, but the fact that he’s even thinking about it should be a factor in evaluating this trade.

@_JohnGonz
Kristaps: I want out

Knicks: OK.

Dallas: We’ll take him.

Knicks: Should we call other teams?…nah. Easier this way. Let’s get lunch.

man, folks are clowning us hard – which is nothing new…again – i don’t think we did that terrible…

let’s all guess at dallas’ win total next year – maybe 42???

Here’s my thoughts as I posted on my FB:

OK let me take a stab at this:

*deep breathe*

I really, *really* like Porzingis. I believe the Knicks could have built a team with him as one of the cornerstones. I’m shocked that he was traded, and so fast.

That said…

He’s a restricted free agent this summer and there had been rumblings that, A. he wanted to be maxed out, and B. he’d began viewing himself as a franchise player w/out showing enough proof. The truth is that he’s only shown 1/2 season of all-star caliber play, and he’s coming back from a torn ACL. There’s a strong argument that maxing him on a new four or five-year deal would be very risky.

Gun to my head: I would’ve paid him and put injury protections in any re-up deal. But I can definitely understand NOT wanting to do that. So they trade him, get rid of Hardaway Jr’s and Courtney Lee’s contracts, get back another young potential future point guard (I don’t know if he’ll be good yet), gain almost $75 mil in cap space for this summer, and receive two future first rounders.

Part of me says: OK, they’re doing a hard reset again of the franchise. Another part says that they’re trying to go the “cap space” route again – how well did that work in 2010 when LeBron teased us about coming to NY?

So I don’t know right now about this trade. It makes this summer the most important summer in ages for this team (if not ever). A lot is riding on whether they can get the #1 pick in this June’s draft.

I’m willing to wait and see. But maaaaaaaaaaan…

As we speak, my fiancee the Lakers’ fan is trolling me hard.

That escalated quickly….

If we are getting two firsts, I feel better about it. Although I don’t really know how I feel about it.

I just can’t believe we traded for Smith Jr

Why not take all those picks and some youth and take a swing for AD now and lock up the first star?

Two firsts in, what, 2021 and 2023?

How in the fuck is the trade official and yet we don’t know what the picks are?

Shams then had KP saying he would consider all of his options. So I imagine he’ll end up taking the max extension from Dallas when all is said and done. But yes, that he is even considering the QO instead of just taking the max is insane.

I think it’s all posturing. He’s trying to ensure he gets a max offer. Real question: is KP a big asset on a max contract? Because if not, this may be a good move?

Depends on the details of the picks, but them and DSJ for a guy who is (maybe) about to no longer be an asset could be good. Especially if Deandre and Mathews can be flipped for something else, and especially especially if the cap space can be rented out for more picks and/or used on good free agents.

2021 unprotected
2023 protected 1-10

According to a writer for The Athletic:

https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

“The two first-round picks the New York Knicks will receive from the Dallas Mavericks in the Kristaps Porzingis trade will be in 2021 and 2023, The Athletic has learned. Both picks are protected.”

Because we’re Knicks fans…. Why could we even get a trade thing right. Lol

Protected picks kinda suck.

Why is detailed info on this so difficult to communicate? It has to be finalized if the league has signed off, right?

Why is detailed info on this so difficult to communicate? It has to be finalized if the league has signed off, right?

Yeah, I have no idea. It’s bizarre how difficult it is to find these details.

I suppose it’s a defensible trade in a vacuum, but the whole process that brought us to this point is just so knicksy

Shams on NBA TV just said that they worked on trading KP in the last 2-3 days,
they offered him to NO as the headliner for AD but the Pels were scared he would go QO and said no.

Really this trade could be judged only at the end of july, after the dust from draft and free agency settles.

Right now we traded our “star” for DSJ (I hope this make Mudiay “less resignable”), around 44 Mil in cap space this summer (Lee and THJ contracts plus KP 17 MIl cap hold minus DSJ 4,5 Mil) and 2 first rounders.

Marks at ESPN estimate our cap space this summer to be over 74 Mil, if used properly this could end up being one of the greatest Knicks trade ever (and many “professional pundits” are saying that there are “under the table” guarantees from 2 top free agents, but I’m not buying it for now) or could be a disaster, or could be a “total rebuild” one. We’ll see.

Hm maybe Perry really is trying a long-term rebuild through the draft. Too bad his 1st round draft pick this year looks like hot garbage.

Of course all this happens while I’m driving fucking home from rural PA so I can’t do much. Getting two future 1RP, depending on the protections, moves this trade from disaster to potentially good. But it really feels like the main purpose of this trade is to go all-in this Summer on 2 max players. Also, there’s no way we’re flipping DJ or Wes to another team for additional assets; we’d almost certainly have to take salary back that eats into our cap space next year and we’re obviously not going to do that.

Looks like Trey Burke is going to Dallas also.

I’d hold on to Jordan, too, just as a fuck you to the teams who refuse to give the Knicks anything for him because they assume that the Knicks will cut him.

i kind of sort of like the trade… of course it really all depends on what happens in FA but it’s a very good year to have cap space… .

still…. i was never a big fan of putting all your marbles in FA…. if we can get 2 out the following four…. kyrie, kd, ad or kawhi…. then this starts looking like a really good deal…. however… there’s really not much of a team outside of whoever signs which means it’s gonna be hard to convince a pair to come here… outside of mrob/smith it’s pretty bare… and no knox does not count….

smith is gonna be a player…. i’m convinced he’ll be a solid rotation piece with a chance to be better…. i was hoping for a straight frank for smith trade but it’s nice to get him in the deal… most won’t agree but give it a year… he’s in the middle of figuring things out and has a chance to pay huge dividends…

i have been totally onboard to trade kp… big men his size with lower body injuries are bad news…. and his perceived value was always bigger than his actual value…. i would’ve been actively shopping him if he was planning to take the QO also although i think there was a better return out there… no way to know tho…

the picks are nice… and that put me on board with the trade… i have zero confidence this knicks FO will do much with it… but they will need as many picks as they can get…

I’m gonna troll the mav’s message board to get their opinion on the deal, then i’m gonna drop some hai koooooo on those texans.

I’m going in as…….RenaldoZIPCODE

There is no superstar in this league with a -0.5 OBPM. And he hasn’t played basketball in a year. With no timetable for return. Porzingis. Is. Not. Yet. A. Superstar. Period.

You are obviously very bright, but I am going to suggest something.

PLEASE, get past looking at models that do not measure individual defense or allow for young players to develop.

Built into every single draft and trade is the probability of that player getting better or worse and by how much (which is the correct thing to do).

Built into any evaluation of KP is that he’s a plus defender that stretches the floor (neither of which are captured by models that quite frankly often suck ass at measuring player value). Beyond that, it’s obvious he has not been used properly and was considered a project coming in because he’s so darn weak. No one thought he’d be good for years. Admittedly, offsetting that is the injury risk which is a HUGE factor. It’s one that Phil considered a couple of years ago.

But let’s get past that. If you think I’m idiot that doesn’t understand what he’s talking about so be it. I don’t really care. Let me take another tact to convince you.

There is a reason when the rumor first came out the teams said to be interested were Toronto, San Antonio, Miami, the Clippers, and the Mavericks. You know what they have in common? They have elite talent and value measuring managements. In other words, they don’t look at WS, BPM and other catch all models that are incomplete and fail badly in many cases. They know what they are doing. They know KP is a lot better than those models say and still has upside.

@141
Yes, they fined AD, they applied the CBA that explicitly forbid to ask publicly for a trade.

This league is running at full speed to a lockout when the CBA expires.
I’m usually very pro players (and pro unions) but this wave of trade request is becoming a problem (if only because it lower team’s leverage in trades).
Small and medium markets teams are increasingly tired by this thing and If nothing changes will act accordingly.

BTW I don’t want to buyout DJ and Matthews, fuck the other teams! Do they want them? Give me something and pay them yourself!

We need to make the big trade RIGHT NOW:

James Dolan + $10M in cash in exchange for a large bag of Vomit.

Someone will take that trade, right? Pretty please?

My first reaction to all this was sadness. KP was an exciting pick, seemed like a good guy, and brought some hope. However, skipping on the exit interview now turns out to have been the first sign of a serious “diva” here, with perhaps his brother whispering in his ear.

If Mudiay and DSJ play together, who eats the vaseline (I’m ripping off myself for this comment made awhile back)? Hey, we have both DSJ and Frank.

If nothing else major happens before the deadline, I hope we see DSJ and Frank play together a lot. Mudiay should be dealt, now, one would think. Trier off the bench.

Ok….my findings from the mavs message board.
First of all, RenaldoZIPCODE was taken. I went in as NomeansnoZIPCODE.

to sum it up, mavs fans are pretty pumped. One dude is psyched about Burke. One guy thinks THJ will be solid with Luka feeding him. Another dude thinks we are going to sign Kyrie and then Dennis smith is right back where he is now. they all want out of Barnes. they seem to suggest KP is a very good basketball player.

Man, Dallas should get killed in tonight’s game. Traded guys gone, and Luka out…

PLEASE, get past looking at models that do not measure individual defense or allow for young players to develop.

Well, I would hope that OBPM does not measure individual defense.

I would imagine that this deal also involves the Mavericks removing some protections on the Hawks pick. Right now, the latest it can convey is 2023 (The pick is protected for selections 1-5 in 2019, 1-5 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021, 1-3 in 2022 and unprotected in 2023). They have to move that up to 2021, right? To make sure both Knick picks convey by 2025 (which is the limit for how far in advance you can trade picks).

One piece of feedback I'm consistently getting from executives around the league is it was not common knowledge prior to today that Porzingis was on the block. Multiple teams who had inquired about his availability in previous weeks were told he was untouchable, I'm told.— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) January 31, 2019

Something tells me those trade talks with Dallas regarding Ntilikina pivoted to KP once the latter’s sitdown with Knicks brass went to shit.

the unprotected pick be not in lottery. dallas could be good in those year. hope they get the top 5 for this year

I did a quick check of every team’s roster and found only three that would have both the interest and the expirings to make a legal trade for DeAndre: Clips, Lakers, Kings. Perry should work those teams hard to make something happen. We don’t need another center here, especially one that’s good enough to win us a couple games.

Matthews should be easier to move. Every team could use 2-way wings.

Seems odd Kanter is quoted making outrageous and cryptic comments about FA already agreeing to come to ny and then bam! KP is moved as quick as you can pronounce his name.
A lot is happening behind closed doors we don’t know about.

Well, that sucks if true. That can’t be true, though, right? Not even LOLKnicks would be that dumb, right?

I mean I think it likely is true to at least some extent because if he was seriously being shopped widely around the league I have to think it would have leaked at least a little bit. I just don’t think you can make a guy really widely available in this day and age without anybody saying anything and even the most plugged in guys didn’t seem to catch wind of anything until the deal was practically done. So I do think it’s fair to say that the group of teams they were shopping him to must have been at least somewhat limited. Now that’s not necessarily a problem because not every team has what you’re looking for but I really, really hope they did their due diligence here.

Was out to a business lunch with a client when this story blew and kept watching the monitor tuned to ESPN in the background behind my client. Didn’t listen to a fucking word he said and just focused in disbelief at the monitor.

that’s both funny and sad at the same time – man, do the new york knicks got a serious hold on all of our lives 🙂

today is a very good day…i’m soooooo happy not to see timmy running out there anymore…

we set ourselves up for a big free agency period this summer…we have any excellent chance at a top 5 pick at this year’s draft…we have a decent prospect at point guard (not named mud or frank)…

and, most importantly – we don’t have to bet on a 7’3″ ball player who tore his acl and hasn’t played in a year…hmmmm, how long before the other knee goes out…

i hope he stays healthy – no, not really – cuz, another injury and those future firsts are gonna be SWEET!!!

The important thing to remember is that Strat turned out to be right about the Knicks getting a first rounder back for Courtney Lee. 😉

Is this true? I can’t believe it is.

In his 4 year NBA career, Kristaps Porzingis has played 1 game after March.ONE (1)— Barry McCockiner (@SportsTalkBarry) January 31, 2019

If KP does not come back as the same player or does not develop

He doesn’t even have to develop! They just have to use him better

Is this true? I can’t believe it is.

1 game, 28 games, same difference, right?

But yeah, weird thing to tweet since it is off by 27 games.

It is fair to say, though, that even in his mostly full seasons, Porzingis has missed a lot of time at the end of the season.

Wow, this transpired quickly.

Does this mean no Anthony Davis? Poo.

Funny how it just takes a few hours for people to digest big news like this to go from “HOLY SHIT WE’RE SO DUMB” to “wow, the Knicks might have really done something smart today.”

I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT JOWLES THINKS.

i think this is a B to B+ move…. considering kp could’ve submarined a lot of deals by threatening the qo… the only thing i might’ve done was call up the clips or portland to pry sga or collins for a similar haul but i think the knicks did well…

what’s the minimum FA haul that would make this work? does it have to be two of the top guys?

I like the idea of trading Porzingis + salary baggage for a diverse portfolio of future assets. But this did happen rather quickly, and it does appear to quash the AD possibilities, which was somewhat exciting there for a moment (those moments have been few and very far between).

@206

Hasn’t AD signaled that he’s going to end up with LAL one way or the other as a way of discouraging other teams from trading for him?

A deal can not work for both ends.

But here’s why I (and Kevin Pelton) think the Knicks came out on top; the Mavs are taking on all of the risk. There is nothing coming back to the Knicks that could be a toxic asset. Yes, they could use the cap space poorly, but the cap space itself is obviously not a toxic asset.

The Mavs on the other hand all but signed Porzingis to a max contract today (or acquired a player who will sign a QO, it’s tough to say which would be worse). Everyone here agreed that no matter how much they liked Porzingis, that was an enormously risky move.

The worst case scenario for the Knicks is that Porzingis becomes a great player for whom they have two first round picks and DSJ to show. The worst case scenario for the Mavs is…a whoooole lot worse than that.

Per Woj, we’re getting unprotected 2021 1st and top 10 protected 2023:

Woj Tweet

Don’t sleep on Dennis Smith Jr.! He is definitely playing better in his 2nd season, unlike Frank, and if he were able to get his turnovers under control would be a fine player already. Having 2 more seasons on his rookie contract to see if he’ll keep getting better is a pretty good deal.

It’s tough bc he clearly scared teams like New Orleans and Phoenix away with his bluff about the QO.

I would have preferred a package of Ball and Hart but the lakers aren’t trading anything for porzingis is he can’t play this year and AD is available.

I would have preferred a package of Nets assets and I don’t care about sending him to Brooklyn but maybe that was unpalatable for Dolan.

I doubt Boston or philly were giving up more for him.

If you start from the idea that maxing him was unwise, I think trading him now and getting this haul is as good as it gets.

We dumped two guys we thought we’d never dump and we got two first round picks and we got a questionable prospect and we avoided a contract I didn’t want. That’s not bad. It all depends on what happens with the cap space.

Is this true? I can’t believe it is.

In his 4 year NBA career, Kristaps Porzingis has played 1 game after March.ONE (1)— Barry McCockiner (@SportsTalkBarry) January 31, 2019

Correct- He’s only played one game in April (there’s a period after March so he means April- not March 1st. And given how bad the team was late in each season there was no reason for him to be playing with minor injuries.

As for the trade, given that both Lee and Hardaway would have each taken at least 2 second rounders to move (and in Hardaway’s case probably a first) I can’t imagine the Knicks could have done any better given KP’s injury and contract status. DSJ, two firsts and a boatload of cap space (plus potentially a second or two if they can move either WMJ or Jordan) is a very good return. You also make the team into an almost indestructible tank- seriously as long as Jordan, WMJ, and Kanter get waived by the trade deadline this team has zero chance of hitting 20 wins and might be lucky to get to 15.

Bwahahahahaha!

Ric Bucher of Bleacher Report:

Another development that I’m hearing is gaining momentum, and that’s the possibility of Jason Kidd returning to the coaching ranks by succeeding Luke Walton with the Lakers. Now, I first heard Kidd’s name connected with the Lakers a while back. Right about the time the first round of, “Is Luke Walton on the hot seat?” stories came out. And Jeanie Buss, head of the Lakers, threw a bucket of water on that seat, cooled it off. And so I tucked away the talk of Kidd and the Lakers as something at the time, simply spit-balling or connecting dots that weren’t necessarily part of the same mosaic. Now, I know that Kidd wants to coach again. And I know he expressed interest in the Knicks job before David Fizdale ultimately got it. But wanting to be a head coach again and expressing that to people who can make it happen is not the same as being considered for one of those jobs. In the case of Jason and the Lakers, I figured it was a matter of Jason letting them know he was interested and the Lakers saying, “Thanks, we’ll get back to you.” Well, now sources are saying that the Lakers have actually gotten back to him and that this has gone to the next level. And that if the Lakers do make a move on Luke – which, based on all of the rumblings, could happen sooner rather than later – Kidd appears to be very much in the mix and possibly is even the favorite.

I like it.
I’m sad KP didn’t work out, but a) he was going to seek a max and we shouldn’t give it and b) he was unhappy with the Knicks.
So, he probably needed to go.

If I remember correctly there were a lot of folks that wanted Smith on this board.

Most wanted to lose terrible contracts. Done and done, lee and THJ gone.

Last, a question:
Can the Knicks now turn around and use the first rounders to built an attractive offer for AD?

If not, this is a huge play for winning the Zion lottery, and signing KD and KI.

I’d take a Z, KD or AD, and KI for a KP, any day.

kp’s already productive…. dallas should use him well… and it’s really just like how they use dirk… but dirk really owned the elbows and was pretty aggressive going to the rim…. kp’s not that.. at least yet… but he can do all the pick and pop things dirk did as well as finish on rim runs….

still… it’s hard to envision him reaching elite levels…. his 2p fg% is very mediocre and it’s not all because of his shot selection…. he’s relegated to poor quality midrange shots because he has difficulties getting opportunities close to the rim himself…. that’s his biggest challenge…

of course having better playmakers around him will help… but i never viewed kp as a foundational piece…. a big man needs to be a presence on the boards, score efficiently inside with good volume as well as protect the paint…. kp only did one of those things so it’s a tall order for anyone to expect him to be more than a third banana… that’s why a max would’ve been not so great…

and another feature of the deal is that we keep alive our streak of not signing our picks beyond their rookie deal…

the charlie ward curse remains alive….

Hypothetically, if we sign two max FAs, how much cap space would we have left this offseason? I know it varies depending on how many years they’ve played (KD’s max is more than some others will be), but ballpark? Again, I’m assuming we screw this up, because we’re the Knicks, but if we’d have the cap space to keep Vonleh, I’d like to try.

The plan just has to be AD and KD. Seems highly unlikely and very risky, but would be amazing if they can pull it off.

If that doesn’t work out, rent cap space for the next two years in a total rebuild. Hopefully add a couple more picks in the next 2-3 years.

The horror show would be Boogie and Kemba.

The New York Knicks had a player whose value around the league was higher than all available metrics said it should be. It’s tough to say exactly why, but it likely had to do with his propensity for highlight reel plays and pointzzz per game. The player was a few months away from an absolutely massive extension despite having a pretty disturbing medical history so naturally the New York Knicks…traded the player for two first round picks and a lottery pick from a season and a half ago? Huh.

What kills me is I can’t beleivs Dallas wouldn’t have agreed to swap rights this year and to the 2nd pick being unprotected.

It really all depends on what they do with the cap space.

We can’t possibly plan on playing DAJ and Wes which makes this team much better…

Or he’s saying what needs to be said in order to maintain leverage when he tries to trade both.

(Jesus, in the five hours since Brian started this discussion, I’ve gone from turning my back on the team to suggesting Perry knows what he’s doing. What the bleep is wrong with me/us?)

I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT JOWLES THINKS.

I think Andrea Bargnani sucked hard. And also I think that

the New York Knicks had a player whose value around the league was higher than all available metrics said it should be. It’s tough to say exactly why, but it likely had to do with his propensity for highlight reel plays and pointzzz per game. The player was a few months away from an absolutely massive extension despite having a pretty disturbing medical history so naturally the New York Knicks…traded the player for two first round picks and a lottery pick from a season and a half ago

and that is a pretty damn good return on an inescapable $154M max contract for a player who hasn’t played in a year and was pretty damn unproductive on three consecutive 30-win team before his catastrophic knee injury, which, again, he has not yet returned from.

Given that I don’t know whether there were better deals out there than a young, underachieving PG signed for two full seasons after this one AND two future firsts, I’d say that I’m pretty happy today.

The Porzingis contract will not be with the Knicks, and I will be the first one to eat crow when he comes back next year and wins DPOY while putting up 25 PPG on .590 TS%. But I also don’t see myself tasting that foul bird anytime soon.

It’s very Knicksy to be celebrating the Knicks ‘getting’ a bunch of cap space they only didn’t have because of the extremely stupid contracts they gave to Lee and Hardaway. This deal is only good outside of the context of all the other stupid shit the Knicks have done and the real chance that they’re going to do something stupid with that cap space in the future.

I don’t know what the deal with that PIPM stat is, but Smith is about as productive as Mudiay or Burke, but his value, such as it is, comes on defense. Who knows-maybe he’ll get better away from that martinet Carlisle somehow.

It’s very Knicksy to be celebrating the Knicks ‘getting’ a bunch of cap space they only didn’t have because of the extremely stupid contracts they gave to Lee and Hardaway.

Agreed. And I’d be much more upset about it if it were a year ago today, when Porzingis was still healthy.

I get why people are bummed. I don’t want the Charlie Ward Curse to continue, and I don’t want to celebrate the Lee/Hardaway dump any more than I celebrate someone for declaring bankruptcy to get out from a predatory auto loan on a flashy lemon that they never needed in the first place. That is very Knicksy. I just think it’s quite possible that in 2023, it’s MaverickBlogger.net, not us, talking about what they have to package to offload the Porzingis contract so their MVP candidate can finally make the 2nd round of the playoffs.

We can’t possibly plan on playing DAJ and Wes which makes this team much better…

Saying ‘yeah we’re going to buy these guys out don’t try to trade for them’ would be malpractice. Matthews is kinda cooked but I guess Jordan could fuck things up for the tank by rebounding if we play him.

The second Mavs pick moves to second round if not conveyed by 2025. Seems unlikely that it wouldn’t convey by then, though.

PtMilo +1

Especially on the KP amd Mitch defensive front. With Frank up front too. It really would have been something.

I think history should reflect that we didn’t know about the first rounders at first.

In multiple ways the process is knicksy and clearly sucks.

But the end result, it doesn’t seem that bad.

FWIW Zach Lowe is reporting that we have the first unprotected Dallas pick. That means we can jump Atlanta and get the pick in 2020 if Dallas is in the top 5 this year.

no that’s not it. we get first available, after accounting for the hawks rights, which obviously do not change. so if the mavs get 1-5 but don’t next year, the hawks get 2020 and we get 2022 and 2024.

no that’s not it. we get first available, after accounting for the hawks rights, which obviously do not change. so if the mavs get 1-5 but don’t next year, the hawks get 2020 and we get 2022 and 2024.

Yeah, I think Lowe is describing it poorly. I think he means whenever it conveys to Atlanta, the Knicks get the pick the next possible year. The interesting thing is this, it is theoretically possible for the Hawks pick to not convey until 2023, in which case the Knicks would only get the Mavericks’ first and second rounder in 2025.

Pick details via league memo: NYK receives next avail DAL 1st-rounder unprotected. Depending on when that happens, NYK then receives either DAL 2023, 2024, or 2025 1st-round pick– top-10 protected in all three years. If they haven’t received 1st by 2025, they get Mavs 2025 2nd.

Wording strange, but it implies we get the first pick that Dallas can trade and that our right to that pick is unprotected, not that we get the first Dallas pick that doesn’t already have protections on it. Thus we get their pick if it is top 5 this year.

Wording strange, but it implies we get the first pick that Dallas can trade and that our right to that pick is unprotected, not that we get the first Dallas pick that doesn’t already have protections on it. Thus we get their pick if it is top 5 this year.

He’s just misusing the term “next available.” It’s just a common thing NBA teams use in scenarios like this, where you have to wait for the first pick to convey for the next one to convey, so you say “next available” instead of a specific year.

Ladies and gentleman we have ourself a competent front office.

We’ll see

Ladies and gentleman we have ourself a competent front office.

We’ve got a long fucking way to go before we can claim our front office is competent. We just traded our best player asset to, in part, dump a salary that this front office stupidly gave out a year and a half ago.

Yes, Atlanta gets their pick the we get the ons two years later.

The knicks film school description makes no sense to me.

It is incorrect.

The “next available” aspect of the picks in the Knicks/Mavericks trade are confusing, but essentially, it just means that the Knicks get an unprotected first round pick two years after the Mavs convey the pick they owe Atlanta. The only way that that can hurt the Knicks is that if the Hawks don’t get that pick until 2022 or 2023 (due to the various protections on that pick), then the Knicks only get one first round pick (the other pick becomes a second rounder in 2025).

Also I recommend checking Michael Rapaport’s twitter. He seems to be taking it well.

Just saw BC’s post at 268 so disregard 269

What kills me is I can’t beleivs Dallas wouldn’t have agreed to swap rights this year and to the 2nd pick being unprotected.

Agreeing to swap would nullify the advantage they gain from Dolan’s Razor. The Mavs ain’t dumb.

I dont understand the SWAP thing? what is that? is it part of the deal?

Yeah, but Dallas has great incentive to tank the rest of the year… Let’s hope THJ gets super hot!

The only way that that can hurt the Knicks is that if the Hawks don’t get that pick until 2022 or 2023 (due to the various protections on that pick), then the Knicks only get one first round pick (the other pick becomes a second rounder in 2025).

Or if Dallas lands a top 10 pick several years in a row.

Also, Dallas isn’t that far from falling into a 30% chance of a top pick. Not crazy after losing Deandre Jordan.

As far as the timing is concerned, I too hope the Knicks did some shopping around. Keep in mind though that Perry is publicly saying that Porzingis essentially asked out. If that had leaked (and it would have) our leverage would’ve went kaput. So I can see how there might have been a sense of urgency.

Obviously we could’ve told him to shove it due to our RFA rights, but Porzingis still had the ability to make our lives very difficult if he was truly committed to spending as little time as possible on the New York Knicks. Aside from taking the QO which I agree was unlikely, he could’ve signed a 2 + 1 offer sheet early in the offseason. We would’ve either lost him for nothing, or matched and been eliminated from doing anything remotely interesting this offseason. In the latter scenario, we’re also in pre-agency hell almost immediately.

Even if you think there’s no way he would’ve passed up the 5/$156M when push came to shove, that seemed like a big enough risk before we knew KP wanted nothing to do with us. It’s very hard to imagine it ending well if he was constantly angling for his next move.

At the end of the day I’m bummed too. If I was playing a video game this would’ve been a no-brainer but I really, really want to see the Charlie Ward streak come to an end. Porzingis, warts and all, certainly has a chance to be a great player and his rookie season was probably the most elated I’ve ever been as a Knicks fan (yes, I’m on the younger side here).

But when I look at all the factors I just can’t help but come to the conclusion that this move is consistent with the principles we’ve been begging the Knicks to operate under for years. What’s funny is I’m pretty sure the move would be better received here if it was exactly the same but without the bad contract dumps (which is understandable given our history).

But when I look at all the factors I just can’t help but come to the conclusion that this move is consistent with the principles we’ve been begging the Knicks to operate under for years. What’s funny is I’m pretty sure the move would be better received here if it was exactly the same but without the bad contract dumps (which is understandable given our history).

I definitely would not have been happy with a Porzingis for DSjr and a 2021 first rounder and a 2023 first rounder protected #1-10 trade. That’s my issue in a nutshell. The only way this pays off in my book is if they have an under the table deal for two of the major guys to come over this year. And it could pay off that way. But that’s not a “patient” approach.

And Zach Lowe agrees with me on that (so long as we’re citing ESPN writers who agree with us. 😉 ).

1. DAL should call KP’s bluff on QO if he makes it. NYK should have to. 2. Yes, the cap space angle for NYK — double-max. They’d better nail it b/c they sold super low on KP. 3. Overlooked possibility: NYK grew weary of KP’s (justified) complaints, said “enough.”

Right or wrong — and the answer w/ the Knicks is almost always “wrong” — I do think front office/org feeling like KP just didn’t trust them, + would never trust them, was a factor in them cutting bait at this time (early) + at this price (super-low unless they have great intel on KD)

This trade reeks of haste. Mavs just played the NYKs, so Mills/Perry cut the deal before they left town ;-). This may turn out OK, but we may have to wait years to cash in those 1RPs. NYKs should have held a weeks-long auction, as, IMO, KP still has great value, as right now there’s not a lot of salary to match up if you deal for him by himself. You mean to tell me you couldn’t have gotten more by offering KP to Lakers, who would have given 1 (or more) #1s, Ball and maybe Kuzma? Or to Houston: D’Antoni would have told his FO to offer Capela and FOUR #1s for KP. Bundling this trade with the dumping of Lee & THJ is the wrong way to move a player with such trade value, so MP took the quick and easy way out by combining both goals. Also, remember they have no loyalty to Phil’s picks, including Nilla, who’s next out the door.

I definitely would not have been happy with a Porzingis for DSjr and a 2021 first rounder and a 2023 first rounder protected #1-10 trade. That’s my issue in a nutshell.

What if it was the best trade offer on the table, with the alternative being signing a disgruntled KP for $30M+ AAV for 5 years? Or matching a 2 + 1 early in the offseason?

The only way this pays off in my book is if they have an under the table deal for two of the major guys to come over this year. And it could pay off that way. But that’s not a “patient” approach.

How can you say this when the main thing we’ve been wanting the Knicks to do for years is rent out cap space for assets? We could strike out on everyone and then immediately revert to a Process of sorts. This option would flatly not be available to us if we had a 5/$156M contract on our books.

Our position vis-a-vis KP’s contract was always gonna be shitty because instead of acquiring surplus assets while KP was still on his rookie deal, Phil Jackson sat on his ass while retreads told him how smart he was and how well they’d fit in the triangle if he would only give them $72 million dollars. As a result of that, KP was up for a max contract when said contract would’ve only solidified a core that might be worth 35 wins fully healthy. I think we went with the best of a bunch of mediocre-to-bad options.

What if it was the best trade offer on the table, with the alternative being signing a disgruntled KP for $30M+ AAV for 5 years? Or matching a 2 + 1 early in the offseason?

Because I don’t think that could possibly be the best offer on the table.

We could strike out on everyone and then immediately revert to a Process of sorts.

Do you seriously think that they plan on renting out cap space when they made a point to clear out $74 million in cap space this offseason?

Because I don’t think that could possibly be the best offer on the table.

And if it comes out that there was a superior one out there, you can rely on me to change my opinion. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t, honestly. Teams are sooooo stingy with first rounders, especially unprotected ones, these days. As the initial Shams report about KP taking the QO makes clear, there’s tons of uncertainty around KP for any team. The contract situation is bad. The injury situation is bad. His production has yet to match the hype (though as I’ve mentioned, I’m bullish on this changing).

Do you seriously think that they plan on renting out cap space when they made a point to clear out $74 million in cap space this offseason?

I don’t think it’s their Plan A, no. But if KD/Kawhi/Kyrie/AD/Butler et al. all land elsewhere, I see no reason why they can’t pivot. If you get two of these guys, suddenly you have a potential top-4 playoff team with surplus draft picks. If you don’t, you can begin the first rebuild in the history of the New York Knicks.

Of course, this could all go to hell if they choose to spend the cap space like morons. On that front, we can only wait-and-see.

I’m giddy as a little school girl…

to be honest – I wasn’t looking forward to another 2 or 3 years of not reaching .500 ball in a season…

our only chance at that happening was clearing enough space to sign some legit NBA talent…

I was pretty skeptical we could move timmy and lee without giving up frank, knox, and some picks…not that either frank or knox are playing too great…

we got rid of timmy, lee and burke, and, pretty much guaranteed ourselves we won’t have to watch mudiay play next year…

just about every running dunk porzingis had I would cringe when his leg would turn sideways when he landed…the mav fans can sweat his health now…

if we would not have been able to improve our team significantly next year – kp would have made things really difficult to keep hold of him…as in signing a qualifying offer and pulling a kawhi and just not playing…

who knows how our draft position plays out, or, if we’re able to actually sign 2 or 3 good players…

at least for today – we are in much better shape than yesterday…

They just cut bait on their franchise player. I suspect if they can’t sign their main targets in free agency they’ll have the balls to not blow their wad on the also-rans.

Hope so anyway.

OK, so hypothetically, the Knicks whiff on KD, Kawhi and Kyrie. Do they:

A. Just sign whatever guy is still available that has the highest PPG to a megamax, or
B. Rent the cap space, take on a bad contract, pick up assets, blah blah blah

I mean, it’s like a 99.999999999% chance of option A, correct?

man, at least wait til perry really screws the pooch before you start pooping your pants from imagining ghosts of season’s past…

seriously, it’s gonna be okay – until it’s not okay…and then, they’ll be plenty of time for worry and sorrow…

I mean, it’s like a 99.999999999% chance of option A, correct?

This morning I thought there was no chance we didn’t max KP.

well there’s some interesting guys this year in FA…. and 2020 seems bare… and then 2021 is when it starts getting interesting again but probably not where you wanna spend money either… if i had cap space this would be the year to spend it imo….

I absolutely agree that this free agency period is going to be a lot better than next year. They definitely do have that in their favor.

300+ posts, KB blowing up

Finding out there are scenarios where the 2 first round picks don’t convey until 2024 or 2025 and one of them might turn into a second rounder adds significant risk to the Knicks. The truth is we won’t know how this is going to turn out for several years. One issue is the mysterious lack of energy exhibited by Porzingis every year by January. If he truly is anemic and can’t get that under control then he’ll never be an impact player and good riddance. On the other hand he certainly is talented and has the potential for a unique skill set. Playing with Doncic he could be dynamic, if he can stay on the court.

Mills and Perry have to use that cap space very wisely or we are seriously fucked.

Getting Zion and even one of KD, Kylie, Kawhi, or AD would be terrific. I’m not counting on the stars aligning like that due to Dolan’s Razor.

That’s good haiku.

The papers are signed.
So much possibility
walking out the door.

“We made you,” the fans
cry out. “My life, my choices,”
he smirks. “My Luka.”

The papers are signed.
So much possibility
walking out the door.

as the wise and wild curly bill once said:

well…bye…

Let’s say that the Knicks get Irving and Durant. That’d be amazing, of course. That would still leave them with, like, $5 million, I believe. You could probably re-sign Vonleh and then use the room exception to get someone else decent (or reverse that and sign someone else and use the room on Vonleh).

Let’s say they get, I dunno, Barrett (I figure he’s a nice medium result between great and terrible lottery luck).

So your starting five is:

Irving
Trier
Durant
Knox
Robinson (maybe you start Vonleh to keep Robinson out of foul trouble early?)

with Barrett, Frank, Dotson, DSJ, Vonleh, room exception guy A, re-signed Kornet (he’d be restricted and they can use up to the mid-level on him to bring him back, so he’ll be back) and a couple of vet minimum guys/undrafted picks.

How many wins do you think that team gets next year? That’s not a rhetorical question, I’m curious as to what people think.

Unfortunately Brian, I actually don’t think we do have that much space. If we waive Lance we’ve got 28m committed to 6 guys – Dot, Mitch, Knox, Frank, DSj and trier (and including Noah’s dead money).

Add a cap hold for our 1Rp – if no 1 that’s close to 10m.

Five empty roster charges – another 4m. So 42m and a cap of 108. About 66m in room. A ten year max and a 6-9 year max come to about 69m, though you can net two roster charges off that (67.6). Basically, to fully max KD and Kyrie they’d have to take slightly under the max or we’d have to release trier or resign him under the room exception, although it will be easier if we pick lower.

As an aside, what the fuck is up with the shitty Pistons? Barely beating the Mavs with such a short roster (and no Luka). With the win, they’re still just 22-28! Dang! And yet they’re just two games out of the playoffs. Double dang!

Grocer, your Haiku is good too

@319-Holzmansghost-perfect expression of the last 50 years of Knick history.