(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 8:05:00 PM)
For Enes Kanter, the Knicks have to be like Cosa Nostra: “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.”
After being informed this week he won’t play much the rest of the season because he fell in the depth chart, Kanter may start Wednesday’s game against the Rockets.
The reason? Starting…
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:00:00 PM)
Get ready for the James Harden show.
The reigning MVP — and favorite to repeat — is invading the Garden on Wednesday on a torrid streak, currently on 20 consecutive games with at least 30 points. Only Wilt Chamberlain did that.
The 29-year-old is also keen on achieving his first “Garden moment,”…
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 1:55:00 PM)
The Rockets’ visit to the Garden on Wednesday was also supposed to be the return of Carmelo Anthony. Instead, the greatest Knick since Patrick Ewing (I know, the list isn’t exactly impressive) is floating around without a team, bouncing around the rumor mill of a league that apparently has little…
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:38:12 AM)
Rival teams have inquired about Tim Hardaway Jr. and Courtney Lee, according to Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic, who suggests that the Knicks would be open to moving either player and creating additional 2019 cap flexibility — even if losing Hardaway would make the lottery-bound team even less competitive on a nightly basis. However, league […]
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 5:48:15 PM)
James Harden enters the Garden on Wednesday ready to break the scoreboard against a listless Knicks defense. Harden has scored 200 points his past four games — the first player do to so since Kobe Bryant in March 2007. Harden’s 35.7 scoring average is the league’s best since Michael Jordan’s 37.1 in 1986-87. And now…
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 10:45:22 AM)
As the Knick centers turn, Enes Kanter has gone from fourth string to starter — off one bad turn of an ankle. A disgruntled Kanter, who sounded open to a trade following the MLK Day rout by the Thunder, is expected to start against the Rockets on Wednesday after it was announced starting center Luke…
(Wednesday, January 23, 2019 12:27:17 AM)
Paul George posted 31 points on the Knicks on Monday and afterward, Kevin Knox revealed he hopes to workout with the Thunder forward this summer.
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 10:33:53 PM)
Zion Williamson continues to impress at Duke while the Knicks continue to be in position to have a chance at drafting him in June.
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:44:25 PM)
Former Knicks F Carmelo Anthony didn’t have the time in Houston he thought he would. It only lasted 10 games before Houston made the call to part ways with the 10-time All-Star.
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 2:14:33 PM)
Knicks’ center Luke Kornet underwent an MRI that confirmed a left ankle sprain with a bone bruise, the team announced on Tuesday. Now, head coach David Fitzdale may start Enes Kanter in his place.
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 10:38:35 AM)
Knicks president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry have been consistent since last year about the team’s refusal to sacrifice the future for a short-term gain.
(Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:03:09 PM)
Knicks coach David Fizdale told reporters Tuesday that Enes Kanter, who recently complained about a reduced role with the club, will likely start at center while Luke Kornet is sidelined by an ankle injury.
67 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.01.23)”
What’s the over/under on Harden tonight? I’d guess 38.5 or so…
38.5? You mean how many shots he will take?
real answer: turnovers
Also, Zion called Jay Z the GOAT rapper, apparently, which, while I disagree, is a very good opinion by a man born in 1999. You know that there’s a non-trivial segment of the current NCAA roster that can’t decide between Lil Pump, Bobby Schmurda and 6ix9ine in the GOAT rapper debate. Oh, and Lil Dicky. Definitely some Lil Dicky fans out there. And that’s not okay.
That’s a subtle message that he wants to land in NYC, and Brooklyn doesn’t suck enough to get him.
hey…I’m sorry I’m behind you guys in embracing the tank, but I am coming around!! Question though…..if I understand this right, we can finish between 1 and 3 and have the same odds to get each of the top 5 picks. The difference is that if we finish last, we are guaranteed to pick no lower than 4th. if we finish 2nd last, there is a 20% chance we will pick 6th. If we finish 3rd to last, there’s a chance we could pick 5th?
It’s interesting you if you finish with the worst record, there is almost a 50% chance you will pick 5th, and only a 40% chance you will finish top 3.
Yeah, the tank outcomes are pretty weird now. Still there’s a serious incentive to lose games, as you noted — everyone should be able to agree that having a slot that guarantees no worse than #5 is better than a slot with a guarantee no worse than #6. We all should accept that if the season were to end today, the single most likely outcome would be the 5th pick.
The flattened odds simply mean that the value of the guaranteed “low” slot (i.e. improving the worst outcome) has increased and the value of tanking for the top pick has decreased. But it’s still best to lose as many games as possible.
Remaining games against hard tankers:
So this is actually good — the Knicks have a ton of games left against decent teams. But every one of those games is going to be critical to the tank. Pulling out two wins against CHI in the home stretch could ruin the whole thing.
If we don’t get the 1st pick, I would deal whatever pick we get, next year’s number 1, plus Knox to whoever gets the first pick…..contingent on Zion giving a shout out to Rakim.
You missed 2/11 @ CLE
I know this won’t happen but I’m now imagining a scenario where The Bulls don’t waive Melo and he goes off in those 2 games against The Knicks to get revenge and thus helps us out tank the bulls and we end up getting Zion because of it and now we all love Melo because of it.
That’s a good scenario!
Most likely, though, Melo hero-balls it and the Bulls lose down the stretch, as Anthony personally, though accidentally, hand delivers Zion to chicago.
It was a pretty terrible solution to the tanking problem when you think about it.
The last time the league changed the odds was when Orlando won the Chris Webber lottery despite being the best team in the lottery. People didn’t want to reward teams that just barely missed the playoffs.
So now we’re back in that situation *and* we’ve done nothing to take away the incentive to tank.
Classic case of taking a problem and making it worse.
After Zion, there’s no consensus on who to draft 2-8, so I’m less worried about where we finish so long as it’s in the top 3 (and #4 wouldn’t be a disaster either.) The second, third or fourth best players in this draft are a total crap shoot. Guys like Garland, Little, and Porter deserve consideration, and picking 3rd might pressure teams into picking Reddish, Bol Bol or Hachimura.
Speaking of Melo, I posted this at the end of yesterday’s recap thread:
Last year I won $20 off an Oregonian for whether the Thunder would break 54 wins last year. I would be educating them to their own detriment.
The Bulls acquiring Carmelo Anthony to let him shoot 30 time a game and drive their tank would be a fitting end to his career. Especially if it nets them Zion over us.
You missed the part where I said he looked terrible on defense when I watched him play, his on off/stats suggest he’s a negative defender, and the on/off in general suggests he’s a negative. To that we can add that NBA plus/minus suggests he’s a negative defender.
I’m not sure what the reality is given the beautiful boxscore data and evidence that he’s a negative defender. However, a positive + a negative is definitely at least a smaller positive.
To which I added, he’s amazing for 19 year old and I wish we had him. He’s just not as good as the hype right now anymore than KP is as bad as you think because you don’t give enough credit to off boxscore defense.
What I am saying is no big deal. Don’t take it so personally because you love Doncic.
Carmelo costing us Zion, I love it. That’s next level Dolan’s Razor stuff.
I think people in Portland are too busy not vaccinating their children to be focused on getting Melo.
@8 Even though I am vehemently against trading number ones (due to ptsd from past results) I would do that trade with Cleveland, who is preordained to get the number 1 pick AGAIN. Zion has proven he is that good, at least to me. I would even throw in some other crap if necessary to make it work, future #2’s and or any player on the roster not named KP and maybe Mitch.
I would give this year’s #2-5, plus a pick swap next year protected top-1, and Knox or Frank for Zion. Preferably Frank.
@20 Preferably Knox, because he’s pretty redundant with Zion, KP, Mitch, and with a little luck, Vonleh. Also, he has more value than Frank, so maybe we get more protection on next year’s pick.
I suppose at this point I’d comfortably take Ja Morant #2. After that, it gets really dicey. I just don’t see the point of “high upside” guys like Barrett or Reddish if they constantly make terrible decisions.
On top of that, it’s really hard spending a high pick on a guy like Garland that’s been injured all season (the exception would be Bol, since he has shown a good body of work before getting injured.)
At 3 or 4 I’d rather go for Culver as a “do everything” guy or also Alexander-Walker who can really shoot it, but those are guys you can trade down for… maybe Hachimura or Clarke further down from that.
If the NBA draft is rigged then I think we have a really good shot this year. Cleveland got Lebron cause he was from Ohio and then Irving bc they lost Lebron. They won their title. They don’t need to be good again.
Phoenix is a small market and they got the top pick last year.
Chicago…that could be a threat cause they are a big market and have the history of Jordon and those titles. Returning them to glory could be a nice story line for the NBA.
But The Knicks? I mean we still do have Dolan but he’s been pretty much out of the picture since Phil took over. We haven’t even had an Oakley type controversy since Perry and Mills took over and we are finally rebuilding with youth. Plus we have Porzingis on the team all ready. Giving us the top pick would pretty much instantly put us on the right track towards being good. Zion in the Mecca also sounds really cool from a marketing perspective.
Morant is my choice if we don’t get Zion. Its time to finally fix the point guard issue that has plagued this franchise for years once and for all.
tonite should be a good night for us to showcase our “talent”.
-our best defender on harden, which is vonleh or (frank)?.
-capela and enes /mitch matchup should be interesting till mitchrob fouls out.
-timmy vs gordon a battle for the “ages”
really? there’s no love for Rakim?
It doesn’t matter what we offer. The only team that would win the lottery and trade Zion is us.
Capela isn’t playing.
Does anybody know what good is Hicks for if, after having told Kanter he wouldn’t play anymore, we’re starting Enes because Kornet got hurt? Call up Hicks, give more minutes to Vonleh, Mario and Mitch (fouls notwithstanding) and you’re set.
hicks is confusing as the new guy we gave a two-way to, no one seems to know anything about them
Hicks is very bad and him taking up one of our 2-way slots is something that makes me more angry than it should
I think after the ridicule the Hawks have been going through with the Doncic for Trae Young trade, it’s gonna be incredibly unlikely that a team will trade Zion for any offer that’s not insanely overpriced. I do think there’s a very, very slight chance that an idiot team like Chicago, Phoenix or Cleveland considers Barrett the better prospect, but it’s so damn unlikely. Doncic had the Euro tag attached to him, so some stupid GMs were afraid of commiting to him, but there’s simply no argument to be made that Zion is not #1 at this moment.
I can see a team like Chicago thinking Barrett is a better “fit” next to Markkanen, but that’s all I can come up with.
The word is that not many team are “sellers” into the trade market (5). That bodes well for the Knicks in their attempt to move any players they are interested in moving.
Zion, Markannen, and Carter would be a pretty amazing frontcourt, I think. Imagine if we drafted one spot behind them for the 3rd year in a row and had Knox, Frank, and Barrett to show for it compared to that.
Also, to be clear, I didn’t say the only team that would trade Zion is us because I think we’d make a Atlanta-esque kinda trade. I could see us trading Zion for a win-now player, though.
Zion, you and I would also be a pretty amazing frontcourt!
On the one hand, the Knicks have a lot of two-guards, so two-guard isn’t really a position of “need.”
On the other hand, most of the Knicks two-guards suck.
So I kind of like Jarrett Culver as a potential Knick, because while he is a two-guard in the NBA, he has a pretty well-rounded skill set and looks like a dude who will be a solid NBA rotation player. I don’t see lots of weaknesses in his game. He won’t be a star, but he can play.
“Zion, Markannen, and Carter would be a pretty amazing frontcourt, I think. Imagine if we drafted one spot behind them for the 3rd year in a row and had Knox, Frank, and Barrett to show for it compared to that.”
It doesn’t take much to imagine that happening because Knicks….
I just want to see a handful of games this season with various combinations of Robinson, KP, Vonleh, Dotson, and Frank. Then throw in one other scorer like Trier or Knox to see what a defense first lineup can do. They did some of that at the beginning of the season and they were OK.
Not sure what deal you could possibly construct to acquire Zion.
That is funny re Harden and MitchRob, setting the over/under on him fouling out at 12 minutes….
We win the lottery, Damian Lillard demands a trade, Portland offers him to us for Zion.
I think Mills and Perry would leap at that.
so where does zion play in the nba – the three or the 4 spot?
Hubert, stop trolling me.
The Knicks are and have been hugely dumb historically but I can’t believe they would ever contemplate trading the best prospect since Anthony Davis for Damian Lillard.
I could see them trading him for AD if they could add Durant as a part of the package.
Dude is a tweener. If we win the lottery we should trade him for a bunch of former lottery picks that are washing out and then trade those guys next year for late second rounders after we resurrect their careers. 🙂
@42 – “so where does zion play in the nba – the three or the 4 spot?”
He plays anywhere he wants to
In the unlikely event he actually ends up in NY I’d go with Zion at the 3, KP at the 4, Mitch at 5.
You could go small with Zion at the 4 and KP at the 5.
My dog could start speaking and I could win the lottery tomorrow too
Ok, Owen. I’m the Portland GM, you’re Steve Mills, and you just turned down Zion for Lillard.
I now offer you Damian Lillard for the rights to Zion and I will take back Tim Hardaway and Courtney Lee, which gives you enough cap space to offer a max contract to Kevin Durant.
What do you do?
I blow my brains out
If the Knicks have Zion Williamson, Kristaps Porzingis, Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, Allonzo Trier, Tim Hardaway Jr, and Frank Ntilikina, I’m sure that’s enough for them to say “we want to build a long term winner and will not trade our young corps.”
And there. Is. No. Way. The Knicks get away with trading Zion Williamson at any point if he’s drafted here. How do you pass on watching Knox, Williamson, and Porzingis together for the next 10 years?
i call N.O. and offer up Zion, timmy and Lee for AD
Short term, we’d have one of the best teams in the east with a multi year window and ability to keep improving with our young players as Durant ages. Long term, if Zion becomes a freak, at some point in the future, years from now, we’d be better off with Zion.
A better idea.
Would Durant want to play with Lillard? I thought he wanted to be the main ballhandler, a la Lebron?
Good question. No one really knows what he wants. But I would suspect he would work with one other guy. Harden has Paul and LeBron had Kyrie and it didn’t stop either of them from putting up video game numbers.
For the sake of this mental exercise, let’s assume he is. And unfortunately Anthony Davis already forced his way to LA, so he’s off the table.
Davis and Durant might be the only reason to give up Zion. One of the two and you’re asking to basically be what New Orleans is right now. And that ain’t good.
I’d have to think about it some more, but I’d probably do that deal.
There is no guarantee Zion becomes a generational player like Durant or that with the current core plus him we would become serious contenders any time soon.
That deal gives us an all time great player and an elite offensive PG for several years without having to demolish the team after Durant ages in 3-4 years. The KP/Lillard tandem can continue for years after that all while players like Knox, Frank, and Robinson are at their peaks.
You’d be trading longer future value for present value, but for several years of superior present value.
If I was 100% sure Zion was going to become a generational player I’d probably wait a few extra years until he started impacting games at a Durant level and then worry about adding or developing someone like Lillard later, but there’s something to be said for a bird in the hand now instead chance at a bird in the hand for longer in the future.
That would be a 600 comment day on KB.
If trading Zion got AD and Durant to New York, I am doing that. And then I am getting LP so I can watch every Pelicans game….
probably like 6k comments over the course of two weeks!
Davis is young enough that (if locked up long term) i would rather have him than Zion.
Zion looks really good, but what if he becomes just a Blake Griffin?
You guys are getting me all excited with these “if we get Zion” scenarios
And then I have this clear vision in my head of Adam Silver announcing: “And the 1st pick in the 2019 NBA draft goes to……the Cleveland Cavaliers.”
The draft lottery this year is going to be a special night…
The Hawks trade was so much smarter than what the Kings did.
Here is my suggested tanking solution, which actually would virtually eliminate the incentive to lose games:
1. There is still a weighted lottery.
2. The weighted lottery determines all picks from 1 – 14 (not just the top 4).
3. The number of ping pong balls is determined by winning percentage after the team is mathematically eliminated from playoff contention. Highest winning percentage gets the most ping pong balls.
4. If a team is eliminated at Game 82 (so there is no value for winning percentage after elimination), that team is automatically given the 8th most pingpong balls.
How it would work:
If Team X were eliminated after Game 75, Team X’s winning percentage in Games 76 – 82 would determine its placement in the lottery standings.
If Team Y were eliminated after Game 78, Team Y’s winning percentage in Games 79 – 82 would determine its placement in the lottery standings.
There would be no advantage to getting eliminated early, because that would only increase the sample size of the “lottery season” where the eliminated team would be competing to get the most possible lottery ping pong balls.
The problem with this kind of solution is it disregards the competing goal of having the worst teams generally get the best players in the draft. Your system would generally be a reverse of the current system with the strongest non-playoff teams largely getting the highest picks, but with a huge dash of randomness peppered in since teams eliminated near the end would have some wildly skewed records (e.g. if you’re eliminated with 1 game remaining then you either pick first or last depending on the results of that one game – not sure if you see this as a feature or a bug of the system).
However, if you don’t care at all about that redistributional goal – and we can debate whether it’s important or not (I’d say yes, not because it encourages parity as much as because it gives very concrete reasons for fans of bad teams to stay emotionally involved) – you don’t need to dream up some complicated scheme. It’s trivial to come up with solutions that eliminate the incentive to lose – just go to a fully flat lottery where every non-playoff team has the same odds to pick in every spot in the the top-14. Arguably this still gives some incentive to lose to teams right on the playoff bubble – would you rather be the 8th seed and get stomped by GS or be just outside with a ~7% chance at Zion and a ~20% chance to pick in the top 3? – but that’s also the case in your system.
You could also move towards the wheel idea Zach Lowe has floated which completely divorces draft picks from your record in every way. Or my preferred solution where every eligible player is just a free agent instead of having a draft at all. But all of those solutions involve to varying extents getting rid of the idea of the draft as an engine of parity. The fundamental challenge is if you care about the worst teams getting the best young players there’s no way to do that without incentivizing losing.
But let me just lay out the case for making all draftable players free agents:
1. This clearly satisfies the goal of not only eliminating incentives to lose but actively providing incentives to win. Every team would want to be as appealing as possible.
2. I actually do think this would keep in place some of the redistributional aspects provided by the current system. While Zion might love to play for the Warriors he’s yet to make a single $ from basketball (just kidding – I’m sure Coach K gave him a little taste). Rebuilding teams would naturally have both the most cap space available and be most interested in spending that space on young guys who aren’t going to contribute immediately. Teams trying to compete would rather spend their limited cash on vets (to prevent dumb teams from perennially self-sabotaging maybe every team gets an annual rookie exception $ amount that doesn’t count against the cap so every team would have incentive to spend at least say $3M annually on incoming rookies).
3. The system would be much fairer to young players then the current system which gives them effectively zero self determination for a loooooong stretch when they enter the league. If guys want to sacrifice money to play for a winner from a young age, let them. If they want to live in NY or South Beach, let them.
Why not keep the odds like they are but just put some limits to how many top picks a team can get within a 3 year window. So you can never get the top pick 2 years in a row and you can’t get a top 5 pick more than 3 years in a row. This would mean that Phoenix, for example, could not get Zion this year since they had the top pick last year. And it would mean no more “process” bullshit where a team is purposefully tanking not just one season but multiple seasons.
How dumb was the system where teams had to fit their draft picks into their cap space, so that capped out teams would have to cut guys to sign their draft pick?
Get on the phone tonight, Mills! You might be able to deal THJ!
Of course, we know that instead, Mills is all, “See? I was right to sign him!”