Game Thread: New York Knicks at Orlando Magic

Game Thread: New York Knicks at Orlando Magic

Start Time: 11/18/2018 18:00:00

Magic, Knicks go opposite directions since last meeting

A week ago in Madison Square Garden, the Orlando Magic scored the first 10 points, led by 20 after the first quarter, by as many as 34 and rolled past the New York Knicks for their most lopsided win of the season.
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Pre Game Links:

  • [] Magic, Knicks headed in opposite directions
  • [] New York Knicks vs. Orlando Magic: What to Know
  • [] Underachieving Knicks forward left wondering what his role is
  • [] Magic’s Melvin Frazier: Back from G League
  • [] BayHawks, Knicks complete 2-game weekend series
  • [] Magic Beat LeBron James, Lakers 130-117; Lonzo Ball Held Scoreless
  • [] Rookie starters impress Knicks’ David Fizdale despite another loss
  • [] New York Knicks at Orlando Magic
  • 63 replies on “Game Thread: New York Knicks at Orlando Magic”

    Let’s play who on the current Knicks’ team would you refuse to trade straight up for Jaylen Brown (assume the trade would be permitted straight up but otherwise don’t ignore the relevant contracts).

    I guess Porzingis, our rookies, Frank and Dotson. I’d have a long think about Frank. I think Brown is pretty badly overrated-hes Iman Shumpert 2.0. not that they’re identical players, but in terms of value. A perfectly fine guy to have while he’s cheap but he’s not moving the needle.

    I feel like I would trade Knox for Brown. Maybe I’m just salty over us not picking SGA, but I just don’t see him becoming a genuinely productive player. Despite his putrid play this season, Brown at least has a history of mild productivity.


    That really says more about the quality on the Knicks roster than Brown, to be honest.

    I wouldn’t trade Porzingis and Robinson and that’s pretty much it, but I also wouldn’t go looking for trades for Brown in the first place. I would trade Hardaway for him simply because he’a younger and on a rookie contract still, but at a similar level of salary Hardaway is probably the better player now.

    @2 this is a shocking post coming from you. Brown is younger than Trier and a lot younger than Dotson, and was a productive 30 mpg starter in both the regular season and the playoffs on a team that was one win away from the finals. I would trade Frank for him in a heartbeat, and probably Knox too. Trier is a very good question, but I think most smart GMs take Brown without blinking over any of those three.

    Feel free to disagree, but doing so flies in the face of serious stats-based/accomplishment-based analysis.

    man would I love to see the color of Bill simmons’ Face when he hears future knicks’ gm dred would hang up on Damyean Dotson for Jaylen brown. For me it would be just KP and Mrob, but I’m suspicious in general on Brown. I don’t believe he’s likely to be an above average 3pt shooter despite his great numbers last year, and I really don’t know if he’ll be an elite defender either (def don’t think he is near that yet). He not a natural passer (literally has had more than 4 assists once in the nba) so be’s probably going to need both those things to be a real difference maker. He’s smart and young so who knows, I guess, but I think he’s maybe more q rich than mini kawhi.

    Brown wasn’t a particularly productive starter. He deserves some credit for being part of an excellent defense, but that’s about it so far. He might not be able to shoot. I think he’s probably better than he’s been this season, but I’m not convinced he’s the player he was last season, and if he can’t hit 38% of his 3s he’s just a guy

    The comparison with Shump is way off as well. Shump never had above a 52% TS until last year and never cracked .100 WS48 ever.

    You guys are right not to talk about the actual game being played. The Knicks look awful.

    The magic have scored 25 points in five minuteS. Kanter came in and the defense actually got better, if anything.

    Bold strategy by the Knicks not playing D on Gordon. You have to think outside the box sometimes.

    So is Orlando just collectively going to be the random-scrub-that-drops-thirty-on-the-Knicks from here on out?

    We got an actual moment of defense from the Knicks, and it was Kanter.

    Bamba and Isaac are looooooooooong.

    A little surprised Isaac hasn’t been better. I am putting him on the Montrezl Harrell future all star squad (although Isaac was a high draft pick) He will probably get it together I think. Very happy to see Harrell has made it.

    31 points in the first should be a good thing. Unfortunately, the opponent dropped 44. Go tank

    If you squint and only look at half the box score; 31 points on the road in the 1st quarter isn’t too bad.

    Burke definitely has some intriguing offensive skills. It’s a shame he’s so small and clearly grew up idolizing AI.

    As Clyde pointed outlook when Ntilikina was in the Magic stopped getting inside and all their came from the perimeter

    A little surprised Isaac hasn’t been better. I am putting him on the Montrezl Harrell future all star squad (although Isaac was a high draft pick) He will probably get it together I think. Very happy to see Harrell has made it.

    He’s been one of my two biggest draft disappointments in recent years. Frank being the other.

    At least Fox turned things around!

    Re: Jaylen Brown

    Considering he’ll be an RFA in two years with a reputation that seems destined to get him paid more than he’s worth, I’d have to think long and hard about acquiring him at all even if I wouldn’t miss anyone we sent out.

    Him shooting .395% on a high volume of attempts last year looks like a hell of a mirage seeing as how he’s a 66% career free throw shooter. Based on the eye test I buy that he’s a plus defender despite the low STL% but he’s still probably overrated on that end too.

    Basically he’d be useless/detrimental to us on the $12m+ AAV deal he’s likely getting , so I’m not trading KP, MitchRob, Frank, Knox (who I honestly believe will be bad forever but at least he’s temporarily cheap), Trier, and Dotson for him.

    @ 27 Breen and Clyre repeated the point that Frank and Dotson came in and stopped the penetration. In fairness some of that may be because Gordon was resting and he had been killing it.

    Kanter could have a 50pt50reb game and I would still spend exactly half the game thinking how much he sucks

    @34 No argument here on that. If he was just a run-of-the-mill bad defender, I wouldn’t mind his lapses as much, but he is just so singularly, impressively bad at defense.

    (Mea culpa on Teodosic’s BPM, shouldn’t have been included on the list with only 71 MP. But my argument about Lou Williams stands. We cannot just look at his stellar performances without acknowledging that he’s a 6’0″ SG who can’t guard anyone and shoots worse than league-average.)

    How many points did Sabonis drop on Kanter? Wasn’t he on pace to score like a hundred points against him?

    I like that Burke is drawing more fouls this game and last – he seems like someone who should be able to go to the line at a reasonable rate but never really does.

    Sabonis has had a pretty great year, although his night with Kanter definitely helped.

    Breen busting out the +/- to bolster Frank.

    Outside of (sometimes) Mudiay and maybe Frank, this team has no natural passers, particularly on pick and rolls. The passing drills during practices must resemble a Benny Hill soundtrack.

    Sometimes I feel Frank treats the basketball like a hot potato. It doesn’t stay in his hands long at all.

    Is there a record for highest points to assists ratio? If so we’re definitely challenging it tonight- we have 99 points and 9 assists

    I have said this before, but Mike and Clyde deserve so much better than what this organisation has served up the last 20 years

    Without looking at Knox’s +/- I have to guess it’s like -22

    Everything great about Frank on one play – great defensive awareness and steal, blocked on the fast break.

    I honestly don’t think the rotations matter all that much right now but sometimes they seem almost purposely random, like we’re trying to pick a secure password with a special character

    The upside of the season is we have been crap from the get go, so there is no temptation to consolidate a playoff push by being a couple games over .500 after 20 games.

    I couldn’t watch the second half of the game. What’s going with Clyde and Breen that Owen is saying it will be hard to watch games without Walt?

    How many pointzzz do Timmy and Kanter need to have for them to get traded? Or is it just not happening?

    Warriors looking like they might lose their third in a row.

    Our problem is that we have all one-way players except for KP. Maybe you can add Dotson and Lee, but Dotson is not shooting well right now and Lee is out and not part of the future. So KP is it. It’s like playing whack-a-mole. Whatever Fiz does it creates another hole.

    With a team like this I think we are MASSIVELY better off slowing it down and stacking the deck with defenders. Baker has no chance to be a really good player, but he’s probably one of the best players on our team (at this stage) because at least he’s very good at one thing. Our offensive players are not that good at offense and they are terrible on defense.

    If Fiz put out a lineup of Frank, Baker, Dotson, Vonleh, and Robinson, it would be laughable inept on offense, but at least it wouldn’t be embarrassing on defense.

    As bad as Frank is on offense at PG, he’s totally useless on offense at the wing. He’s too bad on offense to play unless the rest of the team is stacked with offense, but he’s one of our few good defenders. It’s quite a dilemma.

    If Fiz put out a lineup of Frank, Baker, Dotson, Vonleh, and Robinson, it would be laughable inept on offense, but at least it wouldn’t be embarrassing on defense.

    The lineup Fizdale used for five games of Frank, Hardaway, Dotson, Vonleh and Robinson was pretty close to that, and, except for one bad quarter against Orlando (which actually seems to be a quite good team offensively) probably has better stats overall than any other starting lineup we have used. And I think the Knicks were so inept on offense that quarter against Orlando, it contributed to Orlando’s scoring 30 points that first quarter (which in retrospect, doesn’t seem so horrible, given our most recent first quarter against them). I think Frank and Dotson, both have chances to get better on offense, so maybe Fizdale should go back to that lineup after he finishes experimenting.

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