Knicks Morning News (2018.03.23)

  • [SNY Knicks] Hornacek thinks Knicks need to take size in the draft
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:45:10 AM)

    With the Knicks’ disappointing season coming to an end, the only positive thing for fans to look forward to is the NBA Draft in June.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek sticking with Emmanuel Mudiay as Knicks’ starting point guard
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 4:04:32 PM)

    The Knicks have so many issues, but Jeff Hornacek doesn’t think Emmanuel Mudiay is one of them — at least not in their last game.

  • [NYPost] Knicks veteran surprised Mark Jackson doesn’t have NBA job
    (Friday, March 23, 2018 12:24:16 AM)

    Knicks point guard Jarrett Jack isn’t lobbying for the Knicks to hire Mark Jackson. He just knows some team should take that chance for next season. Jack told The Post he’s surprised Jackson hasn’t been scooped up after the Warriors fired him after their first-round, seven-game playoff elimination by the Clippers in 2014. Jack speaks…

  • [NYPost] Knicks must now make a run at Kawhi Leonard
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 5:01:08 PM)

    ATLANTA — There’s going to come a time when the Knicks are going to have to roll up their sleeves, pound their chests, and say, “The hell with it. Let’s go.” There is no reward for the meek in the NBA. Patience is for priests. Maybe that means focusing every ounce of their energy on…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek is breaking over Knicks’ guard mess
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 8:12:24 AM)

    MIAMI — Nobody knows how much input Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek has now in deciding on the team’s starting point guard. Management is on a mission to see what it has in newly acquired Emmanuel Mudiay, who has started 13 straight games out of the All-Star break. It’s been an unlucky 13 with the Knicks at…

  • [NYTimes] Sports of The Times: Sisters of Sister Jean Embrace Her Loyola Team and Marvel at Her Fame
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 6:47:16 PM)

    At the Iowa home of the Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Sister Jean Dolores Schmidt is more than an overnight superstar at the N.C.A.A. tournament.

  • [NYTimes] Nancy Lieberman’s Return to Coaching Will Come in the Big3
    (Thursday, March 22, 2018 3:14:38 PM)

    Lieberman, a Hall of Famer who coached men in the N.B.A., will take over Clyde Drexler’s old team in Ice Cube’s three-on-three league.

  • 49 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.03.23)”

    It’s starting to feel like Hornacek’s days are numbered and the trial balloons are starting with Mark Jackson as the early favorite right now.

    he is the one who could possibly break himself into the top 8 outside of the much talked about names… gms love big pg’s… and he really came on in march….

    he’s like frank in that he’s long and can be too passive at times…. but he has much more fast twitch ability and good going towards the basket…. i imagine it will be a much closer discussion between him and trae towards draft day and i might favor trae but only by a hair….

    If we’re serious about a 2 PG setup I think Shai is the best ball handler suited to that in this draft and would be a great complement to Frank’s perceived strengths as more of a secondary type who can turn into a solid spot up shooter in time. He’s got a knack of getting to where he wants without incredible otherworldly athleticism.

    On the Ringer NBA show on Friday they do a segment called “Draft Class” where they discuss a prospect or two every week. They had a good discussion about Shai last week.

    Anyone have any thoughts on trading down if Shai looks like he’ll be available and we can somehow get 2 selections out of this draft?

    I looked for some place on a Knicks Web site where I could write in a a fan and say I don’t want Jackson as a coach, but I couldn’t find one. Does anyone know of such a place?

    This is my draft board as of now:

    Porter Jr
    Jaren Jackson
    Wendell Carter
    Robert Williams
    Mo Bamba
    Mikal Bridges
    Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
    Zhaire Smith
    Marvin Bagley
    Trae Young
    Miles Bridges

    pretty much everyone else

    Colin Sexton

    The only trade down that I like( for two picks this year) is for the Clippers picks.

    They’d have to really like Mikal, Wendell or Trae.

    If the Knicks trade Frank, our first and next year’s first for Leonard I might be done. I’ve said it before but that could be it for me. Its the exact type of short sighted move we’ve made for years that has gotten us in this mess. Obviously Leonard is (was?) a great player but he’s 27 and hasn’t played basketball in a year. He would be a better superstar to get than Melo because he is a legit two-way player and obviously the IDEA of KP and Leonard together is very enticing but we cannot sell the farm and mortgage the future just to be a super low playoff seed to try and pair up two players who are currently both injured. I mean we actually don’t even know if KP is going to come back and be as good as he was and when he does come back its gonna take probably 6 months before he might get back to where he was. We absolutely have to keep developing (some might call it tanking!) for the next season.

    That article made me so freaking mad. Its completely irresponsible and so typical of the way the mainstream knicks sports media operates. PANIC WE HAVE TO MAKE A MOVE TO GET A STAR TANKING DOESN’T WORK! We don’t even know where we’re picking or who we’re gonna get.

    UGH. I might even be more mad about a melo type trade to get Leonard than I would if we hired Mark Jackson. At least Jackson wouldn’t cost us picks and does have a record of working with a young team to make them better. And Mark Jackson could always be fired. It might set us back but it wouldn’t be an unfixable mistake. Let Leonard come here in 2 years if he wants.

    Kawhi’s injury is too worrying for us to give up significant assets for.

    If he has the same condition as Granger then even signing him straight out would be foolish.

    I think Bagley is going from overrated to underrated. He seems like a better rebounding Amare with a jump shot to me. Based on his size and jumping ability, I’m gonna take a guess that his block numbers are depressed due to playing with Carter.
    I’d be fine with anyone on Farfa’s top 13 except for Miles (meh/bleh) and Smith (I’m all for BPA, but at some point we have to take into account our excess of SGs)

    I’m not sure Shai and Frank really complement each other – so many bricks.

    If we are at nine with Bamba or Trae on the board, I think we could definitely do a trade down with the Clippers or Sixers I just don’t think Perry would do it.

    Also, I still think his offense is putrid, but Knox was better on D than what I expected. I think this draft could shake out in some very mysterious ways…

    Kemba Walker with a candidate for game of the year. Also shows how dumb a stat Game Score is: with 40.9, last night’s game was only slightly better than his also-great performance against the Bulls in November, when he put up a 39.2 GmSc.

    Last night:

    188 ORtg, 85 DRtg
    1.027 TS% (not a typo)
    3 TRB
    4 AST
    2 TO

    Nov. 17:

    151 ORtg, 123 DRtg
    .759 TS%
    6 REB
    5 AST
    1 TO

    Seems like taking a lot of shots will get the GmSc up there.

    On Kawhi, again: the problem is that if he’s healthy there’s no way the Spurs trade him to us. So, no thanks.

    Why on earth would anyone consider Mark Jackson…. because he went 51 and 31 with one of the greatest rosters in the history of the NBA? Kerr played Green 10 minutes more a game and Lee 10 minutes less, tweaked the offense and voila!

    And of course add a pinch of the phony come to Jesus BS as well as paranoia vs management and you have the perfect Knicksian pu pu platter….

    Marvin Bagley is a better rebounding version of Chris Bosh right now, and he’s only 19. He has potential to add a face up game and more consistency from the 3 point arch. If he falls out of the top 3, teams will regret taking Jaren Jackson Jr ahead of him.

    Marvin Bagley screams larger Michael Beasley to me. I admit it can be recency bias. But a 6’11” guy who blocks only 2.8% of the shots at NCAA level and doesn’t seem to have the highest motor anyway… ugh.

    The Leonard injury is really troubling (so is his attitude given he was apparently cleared and teammates are practically begging him to quicken his rehab and play).

    It would be a risky bet, but a way more sensible one than the kind of crackpot things they’ve done in the past. It would all depend on how both he and KP are progressing with their injuries, what the prognosis is, what we’d have to give up, what else could put around them in year 1 and 2 given available space etc..

    The flip side of @10’s legitimate concerns are that if he could pass a physical and KP comes back fine (which I think is the more likely prospect), the Knicks would be 2/3rds the way to championship contention with a LOT of players willing to join them.

    27 is not the end of the peak in the NBA anymore. With a healthy KP and Leonard the Knicks would probably have a 5-7 year window and then still have a peak KP for a few more.

    details details. we’d need details.

    A trade down with the Clippers or Suns would be intriguing if any two of SGA/Robert Williams/Troy Brown/Zhaire Smith were available. Short of that I’d probably rather just make the pick…unless it’s going to be Colin Sexton.

    @ 19 – Right but he’ll be 27 this summer. KP won’t be back till December at the earliest. And he will be on a strict minutes restriction for awhile. Even with Leonard, next year is probably a non playoff year. So then we’re talking about the following season when he’s 28. Plus we’d give up draft picks to get him, so no young cheap players to develop around this new core of KP and Leonard, both of whom will be making the max. So now we’re banking on vets wanting to play for cheap or take a slight discount to make up for that. Oh and we’ve probably gotten rid of Frank or Burke or Williams too to get Leonard.

    The only difference between a trade for Leonard and the Melo trade is that Leonard is actually a two way player and plays defense. But you know, at least Melo was actually fully healthy at the time we made that trade! Leonard is a question mark right now.


    I don’t disagree with much of what you are saying, though I think the difference between Melo and Leonard is pretty huge. That Knicks team with Melo was also hampered by a deteriorating Amare and them being a really bad fit together. Yet still, we had one very good year. I think we would do better and last longer with KP/KL.

    Unless we strike gold in the draft, somewhere along the line we are going to have pull the trigger on either a very expensive free agent or a trade because you need 3 legit all-stars to contend. Right now we have one prospect and he’s on the shelf. When we pull that trigger, it’s not always going to be some 22 year old that gives us a 10 year window.

    How does a guy who grabs 4 offensive rebounds a night strike you as a guy with motor issues? That’s crazy talk. Bagley’s motor is one of the things scouts love about him. Beasley and Bagley are different people altogether, too, and a player’s character also goes a long way in determining who he turns into. If you could draft a version of Mike Beasley (go look his stats up because he was amazing in college) that didn’t have character issues or a questionable work ethic, you’d have drafted a Hall of Famer. If that’s who Bagley is, then you draft that kid.

    Personally I wouldn’t pull a trade for Kawhi Leonard, just because you don’t know if he’s healthy and we’d almost certainly have to give up 2 1st round picks and the Westchester Knicks. I’d rather we just build this thing from the draft and Westchester. We have KP, Frank, Burke, Troy Williams, Dotson, and Kornet as far as young guys go. That group is going to look and sound a lot better by next June, so let’s just stick to it and not try to put together a capped out team that ultimately loses to Boston or Toronto.

    holy cow – you all are on fire today 🙂

    i like shai…i like trae..i like mikal…all seem like decent prospects…the nba draft though is definitely the great unknown…

    no thanks on kwahi…something is definitely weird right now in san antonio…seeing how knicks’ management seem to create enough weirdness on their own – we don’t need any more of that…same for mark jackson…

    i hate the celtics – even without kyrie, smart, or gordon – they’ll probably still win their first round series…

    we really need to steal brad stevens away from them somehow…

    bagley’s motor isn’t the question but his overall defensive value is…. even if duke has been playing mostly zone it still doesn’t excuse his miniscule block rates… that’s what separates bosh’s freshman year with bagley’s….

    his instincts aren’t that great…. he’s been mostly been going off of superior size and athleticism and i don’t have hard numbers for this but i would bet the large majority of his shots have been assisted which isn’t a good thing…. carter has much more of a refined post game and better skills all around…

    Lol Thibs

    3 out of the top 14 minutes leaders in the nba come from his team…you would think the nbapa would file a grievance against the guy…

    jimmy butler will be done in another two years…

    We’re all in that “picking apart the prospects” stage that someone mentioned the other day. I see more good than bad in our consensus top 10/11, which means we’re drafting a baller like Miles or Sexton and we can tune out til KP comes back.

    we really need to steal brad stevens away from them somehow…

    Not that I’m recommending it, but he may be one of the few coaches that would be worth giving up a pick to get. There’s evidence that players are more productive under him.

    Kawhi is a FA in 2019, if we want him, let’s wait till then and pick another high draft pick while Porzingis recovers.

    27 is not the end of the peak in the NBA anymore. With a healthy KP and Leonard the Knicks would probably have a 5-7 year window and then still have a peak KP for a few more.

    I mean KP is still a league-average player whose team sucked when he was healthy. He’s not a Giannis, Drummond or Gobert, e.g. — outstanding players on mediocre teams. He’s just not that good. Every available metric says that, and I’m not inclined to believe that a guy who’s never had a VORP higher than 1.2 is some kind of franchise savior. Until the knee injury, he was all upside, and now that he’s seen what’ll happen if he tries playing above the rim, I’d guess he’s going to be a midrange peak-performance Ryan Anderson with decent D as a ceiling.

    Kawhi is 26 and still have some peak years left if he makes a full recovery, but that probably makes the Knicks a 45-win team at best. You just can’t expect a team with a permanently-benched Noah and Tim Fucking Hardaway making a combined $35M to be any good. And once KP gets his megamax, they’ll be locked into 35 wins for the rest of time.

    This is all under the assumption that the Spurs would trade a healthy MVP candidate for a couple ~#10-15 overall picks and Frank “Willing Passer” Ntilikina. They won’t.

    As for the Celtics, it’s like this. Here are the semifinalists’ SRS by year as far back as the character limit will take us. Asterisks next to top 2 SRS in each conference.

    GSW 11.35*
    SAS 7.13*
    CLE 2.87* (beat #2 SRS in TOR)
    BOS 2.25 (fluky for sure)
    GSW 10.38*
    OKC 7.09 (beat the #2 SRS in SAS)
    CLE 4.08*
    ATL 4.75*
    GSW 10.01*
    HOU 3.82 (beat #2 SRS in LAC)
    SAS 8.00*
    OKC 6.66 (beat #2 SRS in LAC)
    MIA 4.15*
    IND 3.63*
    MIA 7.03*
    IND 3.34 (beat #2 SRS in NYK)
    SAS 6.67*
    MEM 4.32 (beat #1 SRS in OKC due to Westbrook injury, I believe)

    So 12 of the last 16 semifinalists could have been predicted by SRS. With the injuries, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them lose…

    Absolutely. Build a young core (with at least 3 young stud starters), then look to add a good vet or two. Only KP and Frank are possible young stud starters, but both are iffy at this time.

    The rest of the current young guys are possible rotation guys, but not starters on a potentially good team.

    I haven’t seen his medicals but if they did a stupid deal for Kawhi I’d at least take some solace that they actually went after one of the best players in the NBA rather than another Carmelo.

    But it would no doubt be a pretty stupid deal.

    My last comment got cut off: Boston currently has the #2 SRS but it’s dropped considerably since the halfway point, due to the injuries. Theis was better than people give him credit for and Kyrie is obviously the only thing keeping their offense going (sort of like Rose in 2010-11).

    It seems that the only way to be a contender with a low SRS is to have LeBron James on your team.

    If I had to guess, it’ll be Toronto-Houston in a 7-game series. Warriors could be a secret 10+ SRS team if they play playoff minutes and everyone’s healthy, but I think the Rockets are real and will get even better when Capela, Paul and Harden play 35+ against the league’s best.

    I still think Toronto is going to have trouble with Cleveland- they’re head and shoulders above the rest of the east because of their bench and a great bench doesn’t mean as much in the playoffs. How many minutes are Siakem, VanVleet, and Delon Wright going to get? I think Casey will live and die with DeRozen and Lowry and both those guys have tended to take big steps back once they hit the playoffs.

    The only way I see a deal for Leonard being good is if he’s using his time now to force himself out of thr Spurs specifically. If he is indeed medically cleared and just wants to leave San Antonio for whatever reason then yes, it’s probably worth it to go after him as the Spurs will be desperate to not lose him for nothing and might accept a lesser deal for him.

    But if that’s indeed the case what have the Knicks to offer that other teams cannot do better? We would have to include Ntililina, this year’s 9th pick plus a future one as the core of the deal. Why wouldn’t I don’t know, the Bulls or the Kings for example offer the 5th-7th pick in this draft plus young players that they have, or the Magic could certainly also put together a better package.

    I just don’t see it happening and the situation is far too unsure to swing for the fences.

    Since we are discussing things that will never happen, like signing Leonard, we should trade for Anthony Davis too.

    He’s good.

    Jeff Hornacek told reporters that SF is a need for NYK this offseason. So it’s worth noting that members of the organization earlier this month viewed Kentucky’s Kevin Knox as a potential draft target, per sources. As noted earlier, some are also fans Mikal Bridges, Miles Bridges

    Oh great, so we’re not reaching for Sexton, just for Kevin freaking Knox.


    Everything you need to know about the Knicks is right there in that tweet. All we need now is to hear that they’re going to package a pair of seconds to move up to get him.

    Kevin Knox is terrible, and the worst part is that some people will justify the pick by saying he’s the next Jayson Tatum. Sooo Knicksy. BTW: Hornacek is an awful talent evaluator

    Jeff Hornacek told reporters that SF is a need for NYK this offseason. So it’s worth noting that members of the organization earlier this month viewed Kentucky’s Kevin Knox as a potential draft target, per sources.

    Remember yesterday when I said drafting for “need” when you suck as bad as the Knicks is moronic, and that of course they should go BPA?


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