Knicks Morning News (2018.03.02)

  • [SNY Knicks] Noah, Jack among veterans Knicks must decide to keep or let go Thursday
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 11:25:53 AM)

    With the playoff-eligible waiver deadline on Thursday, the Knicks need to decide what to do with Joakim Noah and Jarrett Jack fast.

  • [NY Newsday] Nets can’t control paint, lose to Sacramento Kings in overtime
    (Friday, March 02, 2018 2:10:47 AM)

    SACRAMENTO — One year ago, the Nets began a season-ending upswing with a win at Golden 1 Center, and they were hoping for a repeat performance Thursday night against the Kings, who came in tied for the NBA’s worst record. But the Nets failed to keep Sacramento out of the paint and to execute on offense in overtime, which is what made their 116-111 loss extra painful.

  • [NY Newsday] Will Kyle O’Quinn opt out and test market or stay with Knicks?
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 8:49:00 PM)

    LOS ANGELES — Kyle O’Quinn doesn’t like discussing his future, but the Knicks’ backup center made one thing very clear Thursday.

  • [NY Newsday] Cavaliers suspend ex-Knick J.R. Smith 1 game for detrimental conduct
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 6:35:47 PM)

    CLEVELAND — Cavaliers guard J.R. Smith has been suspended one game by the team for detrimental conduct.

  • [NYDN] Hardaway Jr. can prove worth to Knicks in remainder of season
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 8:53:45 PM)

    The most optimistic assessment of this Knicks season looks at Nov. 29 as the pivotal moment.

  • [NYDN] Joakim Noah, Knicks set to continue uncomfortable partnership
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 7:31:56 PM)

    Joakim Noah and the Knicks will remain legally separated but with the divorce on indefinite hold.

  • [NYTimes] James Harden Dazzles, LeBron James Answers, Joel Embiid Recruits
    (Friday, March 02, 2018 6:46:34 AM)

    A day after Houston’s Harden wowed fans with a showstopping play, Cleveland’s James came up with one that was perhaps just as impressive.

  • [NYTimes] After Fasting and Before the Sabbath, Yeshiva Debuts in N.C.A.A. Tournament
    (Friday, March 02, 2018 1:45:56 AM)

    Yeshiva’s basketball team has won its first-ever postseason tournament berth. It is a point of pride not just for the university, but the Jewish community as a whole.

  • [NYTimes] The Warriors’ 70-Year-Old Truth-Teller
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 4:40:57 PM)

    Ron Adams is an assistant coach with wide-ranging interests and an obsession with good basketball. He’ll send the wine back if it doesn’t taste right.

  • [NYPost] Why Kyle O’Quinn could be playing himself out of New York
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 7:54:43 PM)

    LOS ANGELES — Knicks center Kyle O’Quinn is the class clown of the locker room, but rarely is willing to talk about himself in interviews. Following Thursday’s practice at UCLA, after doing his usual amount of heckling, needling and racy name-calling at his teammates, O’Quinn made a rare exception to assess what is nothing short…

  • [NYPost] Knicks stage run-and-gun scrimmage
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 5:30:09 PM)

    LOS ANGELES — The Knicks might as well have been on the famed Venice Beach playground courts Thursday. Arriving early in Los Angeles for their four-game road trip, the Knicks staged an unstructured practice at UCLA and let the players essentially scrimmage without coaching or critiques or stoppages. It allowed for a free-flowing workout with…

  • [NYPost] The date to circle for a Knicks-Joakim Noah breakup
    (Thursday, March 01, 2018 1:31:54 PM)

    LOS ANGELES — The stalemate with Knicks center Joakim Noah will continue and could last as long as Sept. 1. According to multiple sources, a buyout with Noah is not expected to occur by Thursday night’s deadline for waived players to be eligible for a playoff team. Noah has been in exile for a month,…

  • [ESPN] It’s March 2, and Joakim Noah is still on New York’s roster
    (Friday, March 02, 2018 2:24:45 AM)

    The New York Knicks do not intend to have Joakim Noah on the roster for the rest of this season, and now he cannot leave the Knicks and be playoff eligible.

  • 75 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.03.02)”

    Regarding a Noah buyout, I believe, if Noah agreed to take less money, the balance to be paid would be prorated over the length of the original contract. So Noah’s final 2 years are about 36m (about 18m/yr); if he agreed to take only half of the total (18m), the remaining 18m would be prorated over the next two years (i.e., about 9m and 9m each year) if he were bought out this summer. If he were stretched on Sept 1, the NYK cap hit would be about 18m, 6m, 6m, 6m, over the next 4 years.

    I think the Knicks are looking to free agency in summer of 2019 hoping to sign 1 or maybe even 2 stars. The stretch would free up more cap for that summer than a buyout even if Noah returned half the money. NYK probably figure they’d be over the cap after 2019-20 anyway so the two 6m hits in the following two seasons from a stretch wouldn’t matter all that much in that scenario.

    Waiting until summer of 2019 to waive and stretch versus doing it on Sept 1 would be the most flexible action. They could choose to stretch him only if they have an agreement from a free agent(s) to sign which requires the additional cap. The cost to keeping Noah would be a roster spot and potential action by Michelle Roberts. The front office might not want that headache. Of course, Hornacek’s status and what happens to kanter and KOQ factor into the decision as well.

    Well, it looks pretty certain that we’ll be in the #9 spot at this point, barring a comeback by the Nets, who are the only team who doesn’t need to tank. We’re currently 4 wins ahead of #8 and 3 wins behind #10 — feels pretty locked in.

    Assuming we stick at #9, it feels like we’ll probably be choosing between two of Wendell Carter, Mikal Bridges, and Miles Bridges. I’m going to go with Mikal Bridges > Wendell Carter > Miles Bridges. I feel like Mikal Bridges is a fantastic fit in any lineup – elite defender who can probably guard 1-3 or even small-ball 4’s given his wingspan, extremely efficient offensive player (TS 64, shooting basically 51/42/84).

    I want no part of Collin Sexton. We already have 3 PGs who can’t shoot.
    Not really interested in Robert Williams despite his frame and defense — bigs who can’t shoot even a little are pretty hard to fit into modern lineups unless you’re Deandre Jordan. And Kevin Knox, who Jonathan Wasserman suggested would be a good fit, scares me to death – if you look at his Tankathon profile where they gives +’s and -‘s based on their attributes and stats, he has all -‘s except for age, FT%, and 3PA, none of which seem so hard to get pluses for.

    Tough decision Mikal v Wendell. If I were sure Carter would be able to guard NBA stretch 4’s, I’d choose him. It’s more difficult to find a 4 to pair KP at the 5 than it is to find a wing. If we’re picking 9th, I suspect one of Wendell or Mikal will be gone by then. If we’re picking 8th, both might be available. Given where we are now and the possibility that a team 9-16 could win a top 3 pick in the lottery, picking 9th or worse appears to be most probable scenario.

    We shouldn’t even consider stretching Noah unless we have an agreement with a worthwhile free agent. Until then it’s a zero upside move. Personally I think it’ll be hard to find a free agent who is worth their price + 6.5m extra AAV and makes sense with our win curve, but who knows.

    Choosing between Mikal Bridges and Carter is pretty tough but I have a feeling only one will be available to us anyway. I think it’ll be Carter and it’ll be up to the front office to pick him despite whatever (unfounded, IMO) fit concerns they have.

    While keeping Noah was a no-brainer, I don’t understand why we kept Jack and Beasley.

    Jack was offered a chance to buyout if a team wanted him, but it ends in nothing.

    Nobody’s releasing veterans if there isn’t a team already prepared to get them (see Shabazz Mohammed and Minnesota).
    If nothing exceptional happens (as in Noah case) you treat them with respect and as human beings because you want to have a good reputation with players and agents, it’s only common sense (and good “humanity”?).

    Jack by the way has been very professional, he never complained, never raised problems, he accepted his new “zero minutes” role without pouting.

    It wasn’t his fault that he has to start, his not a starter but for the minimum salary he did his work very well.
    He is also very respected in the league (Curry considers him as one of his early mentors).

    Yes yes, it just strikes me that there’s no team that would welcome him as a 3rd string PG. Same for Beasley.

    I never advised cutting him just for the sake of it. I can’t say I liked seeing him play, but he’s been a real class act.

    A team jumping us in the lottery would be so ridiculously back-breaking that it almost feels inevitable. I’ve been less angry about our draft position than I normally would be because this draft seems legitimately nine deep (Doncic, Ayton, Young, JJJ, Bamba, Bagley, Porter Mikal Bridges, Carter in whatever order).

    Of fucking course we’ll pick tenth. There are still a few guys that seem intriguing after nine (Robert Williams and Troy Brown come to mind) but it’s really all a crapshoot from 10-30.

    And please, please, please no Knox or Sexton.

    Troy Brown’s a 3P shot away from being one of the best wings in the draft. Obviously that’s a big hole, but there’s alot to like about his game.

    I’m surprised too, before the trade deadline I thought that CLE would be a good destination for Jack and maybe GS could use him too…
    He said he like to stay here and teach the kids, maybe it was his choice.

    Beasley has a reputation in the players community far greater than in the FOs, he played for many teams that are in the playoff run (MIA, MILW, HOU) but nobody wants him.
    He could be very capable as an instant offense bench player but teams favored other players (Joe Johnson, Mohammad, Ilyasova, Belinelli), maybe they think he could create chemistry problems.

    Looking at draft history, what’s the over/under for “Top Ten busts”, 2,5 maybe?

    There are some suspects even this year, let’s hope we don’t get them 😀 has Doncic as the 5th pick… WOW

    I don’t believe cutting Beasley was ever an option for the Knicks. I assume they probably want to bring him back next year.

    Speaking of how cool Jarrett Jack is, he’s the only player that I know of in NBA history that two separate teams acquired in an attempt to keep their star player from leaving, as Toronto got him because he’s good friends with Bosh and when that didn’t work, New Orleans acquired him because he’s good friends with Chris Paul. That also didn’t work, but it’s still an impressive statement about how cool of a guy he must be.

    Next year we’ll lose a lot and It’s hard to find a better Tank Commander than SuperBeas 🙂

    Agreed, Jack must really be a cool guy.

    Definitely a no on Collin Sexton.
    I’ve been down on Knox because he’s practically invisible unless he has the ball, but man he does have scoring skills; he’s very athletic, has protypical stretch 4 size, can shoot 3’s, and has all kinds of mid range shots. He’s the guy you draft if you feel like rolling the dice.
    If you want more of a “sure thing”, meaning NBA rotation player floor, Mikal or Carter are the smart picks. I love them both and would probably take Mikal due to the way the league is now.
    Miles Bridges = meh = future Knick.

    A trade down for the two Suns mid 1sts is something I would consider. We could possibly get both Troy Brown with Robert Williams\Mitchell Robinson.

    Jack appears to be laying the ground work for an eventual coaching job and Hornacek seems more than willing to promote him to the media as a second coach on the team now helping the young PGs. I think it’s a win-win situation. He’s not going to cause any trouble over playing time and he may in fact be helping our young players. So why not keep him? He seems like a great guy and may deserve a chance at his next career choice.

    Mikal looks like the “3” we desperately need to avoid playing Lance Thomas and slotting THJ to his natural “2” position but I haven’t seen enough of him.
    He is one of the older players in the top of the draft too, more experienced, maybe more ready and closer to his ceiling than others.

    It’s so difficult to project what these kids are going to become, I would not be opposed to trading down for 2 picks unless there’s someone on the board that looks like a perfect fit for us.

    It’s still possible that Mikal is there at 9 if the Bulls think Carter would be a good fit with Lauri.

    Hornacek’s most likely done as Knicks coach, given that he’s not Perry’s of Mills’ “guy”- but I really like the move of letting the players practice/scrimmage without coaching. Let em get a load off, so to speak. I don’t know if that’s commonplace around the league, but it sounds like a move from a coach who is in tune with his troops. Yea, he could be coaching for his job and pushing for the results that prove his worth, but he chose to break the monotony. I think it can give him a different perspective on some of the sets he can run for the final 20 or so games. I like it. I’m sure the players appreciate it.

    But if there’s a better option out there, for the love of unicorns, Hornacek must go

    Mikal looks like the “3” we desperately need to avoid playing Lance Thomas and slotting THJ to his natural “2” position but I haven’t seen enough of him.

    Here’s the issue I am wondering about.

    Hornacek seems inclined to try to develop Mudiay into the starting PG and Frank as more of a combo SG. Regardless of whether Mudiay makes the leap or not, if Frank is going to become more of a SG, where does that leave Hardaway long term?

    We can use Hardaway as a SF in small ball lineups and against some matchups, but he’s really more of a SG. Personally, I would like Hardaway to eventually became more of a 6th man off the bench because we filled PG/SG/SF with better players, but he gets paid too much to be coming off the bench and his contract will be tough to move.

    Let’s take another angle. Let’s say Hardaway has an injury free year next year, jumps up a bit, and we are all happy with him as the starting SG.

    Where does that leave Frank other than back in training as a PG possibly playing behind Mudiay and/or Burke?

    Lee I’m not worried about at all. He’s older and not part of the longer term plan. If he gets outplayed he’ll just move to the bench for a couple of years or get traded.

    3p% is a bad metric to judge if a person can hit a 3p shot…. ft% is more indicative of long distance shooting developing because 3p% is very volatile and there’s usually not enough of a sample size to judge it….

    so i wouldn’t be concerned with troy brown not having a good 3p%…. the problem he has is scoring volume which for a guy his age i don’t think is a problem…. i have him and mikal neck and neck….

    i do like wendell carter head and shoulders above both of them…. and i think he should be the pick even though we would still have kanter…. i have carter as the top big in the draft….


    I’m more worried about any of Hardaway, Mudiay, and Ntilikina becoming viable than what we do with them if we do. That would be a good problem to have.

    and our main problem is that we have so few people who can create for others…. that’s sort of why not having a good pg is a huge problem but the problem is across positions….

    kanter and kp don’t pass well…. lee doesn’t … th2 is improving in that regard.. and our pg’s are what they are…. koq is the only one who passes well for his position…. it leads to a lot of iso or contested bad shots….

    that’s why i like troy brown… having a non-pg handle some offense creation responsibility is a big boon to any roster…. mikal is solid… but he’s the kind of guy who’s as good as the opportunities you can give him… kind of like otto porter…. that’s still a good player but we already have a roster full of catch and shoot players….

    Anyone have any info on Keita Bates Diop? Most of the guys we’ve been talking about have been 2/3’s but Diop has actual 3/4 size.

    Yeah, at this point the Knicks should go best player available for this draft and probably the next one too.

    There’s no guarantee Porzingis is coming back 100% and this team just needs talent all around.

    The Lakers have been playing really well lately and Charlotte is pretty much out of the running, so it does seems like the 9th spot is guaranteed for us at least. That’s decent, anything inside the top 10 is decent enough. The only team that could realistically surpass us is the Nets but that’s very unlikely at this point.

    I would still be pretty happy with Mikal mostly because he seems like a good defender and is a good athlete, which is never a bad thing to have. If he can shoot 3s and defend well I’d say that’s completely worth it for the 9th pick. The Knicks need ball handlers but that can be solved in other ways, considering we’re out of the running for the really promising ones (Young, Doncic) and next season is likely to be another at least top 10 pick.

    Also, I wouldn’t base any personnel decisions with Hardaway in mind. To be honest, so far he’s looked like a 6th man player at most and he’s already 26, there’s a very real possibility he won’t ever develop to be better than what he is now. The contract was a mistake and unfortunately well have to eat it going forward.

    At least by box score numbers, Julius Randle has been beasting (got a triple double a few games ago) and Ingram all of a sudden is scoring efficiently and contributing all across the box score.

    The Cavs looked awful last night; they had trouble even getting a shot off in the second half. I would think Beasley would be a useful Microwave for them. And in their prior game, they couldn’t stop Brooklyn from scoring at will. If Lebron drags that team to the Finals it will one of his most impressive feats.

    RE: THJ
    It could be worse, we could have KCP on that deal rather than THJ. THJ is closer to that contract value than KCP..I think..if only by a little. To me the difference is, THJ has been playing out of position all season, and has gotten injured on top of it- so we know less about him at his natural position than we think we know. He may explode at the 2. We just don’t know. He shouldn’t get a full pass for this season, but he should at least be given the benefit of doubt, considering. I’m just saying, maybe this season is a bad time to jump to conclusions on any of THJ, Ntilikina, or even Mudiay…maybe even KP.

    Also, in comparing KCP & THJ..
    We didn’t sign THJ for his physicality & defense. We signed him to help KP on offense. Rebounding and defense was never his calling card. He’s improving and KCP is better at it, but that doesn’t necessarily make KCP the better option at this juncture. For the Knicks at least. Maybe even overall, as you can’t discount the fact that THJ can easily go off for 30-35 points in the blink of an eye

    Timmy isn’t any better than Rodney Hood, who makes 16 million less per year. I’ll be curious to see what Hood gets as a FA, but it won’t be nearly as much as Timmy’s ridiculous contract.

    i have been a big timmy critic but this season i would say that he deserves some credit… he has been steadily improving his game year by year and it shows in the secondary stats….

    his ws48 has fallen but that’s largely because of the massive shooting slump he was in… which yes it counts but i’m pretty sure he’s better than what he’s shown so far….

    him and kcp are largely the same except timmy has higher usage…. which may or may not be bad…. he’s not a tremendous piece but he’s a solid one….


    “J.R. Smith earned his one-game suspension from the team Thursday for throwing a bowl of soup at assistant coach Damon Jones, according to Brian Windhorst of ESPN.”

    I don’t have any strong opinions on the draft, but I noticed Mikal Bridges is a junior.

    I’d have to think that means he probably has a little less upside than some of the younger players in the draft in same range in terms of current ability.

    The Cavs looked awful last night;

    It isn’t polite to “redboard” when you gamble, but I made a rare basketball bet last night against the Cavs. The 76ers are playing very well and even though the Cavs may have won the trade deadline, they are still NOT that good. They will be better when Love comes back, but they got a little overhyped based on the win right after the trade.

    Unfortunately, I still have the Nets and over and that’s been a train wreck with all the injuries and close losses.

    I don’t have any strong opinions on the draft, but I noticed Mikal Bridges is a junior.

    I’d have to think that means he probably has a little less upside than some of the younger players in the draft in same range in terms of current ability.

    I’m not too worried about that. Just means that if he had come out a few years ago he’d be rawer and struggling like a lot of the guys from the 2017 draft. I’d be totally thrilled if we got Mikal, I watch almost all the Nova games (my son went there) and he just oozes NBA ready and is a true two way player.

    Which of course means he’ll get picked #8 by another team and become a star )-:

    @ 37 – and honestly this is why I think we should take him if he’s there. Someone mentioned a few weeks ago that they believe drafting upper class men is the new market inefficiency and I think there’s a lot of truth to that idea. Look at Donovan Mitchell. He’s hands down rookie of the year and I guess since he’s “older” it means he won’t improve much but I think we’ve gone a little over board thinking that just because someone is 21 or 22 vs. 19 or 20 that they are a finished product. And teams value the potential much more than the actual skill level but then it takes 2 to 3 years to actually develop if you come into the NBA after your freshman year. So by the time you’re good, you’re up for your first contract extension and higher salary. So the team spent that time developing you but you get a kid who is a bit older and more polished they can contribute right away and its not like they can’t still get better.

    Bridges feels like the right choice for us. Both positionally and with what Perry has said they want (two way players who are good on defense). I’d be happy with him. If he’s a solid 3 and D wing that’s not bad for the number 9 pick.

    It’s very possible the market is overvaluing 19 years olds vs. 21 year olds. But I do think all else being exactly equal, the 19 year olds on average would tend to have more upside. However, if let’s say on current ability Mikal might go 4th if he was 19 and we can get him at 9th because he’s older, then that could easily be the right move.

    I was totally on the Mikal train until the KP injury as he would slot in so nicely as a 3 with KP at 4/5, Willy at the 5, and Frank at 1/2 as the young core to build around.

    However, with KP a real serious question mark and Willy gone, the objective now should be just the best overall player/talent available. The team needs young talent, badly.

    Mikal’s age might work in his favor if Mills and co. are planning to “go for it” in 2019 by trying to sign a star veteran or two. However, a lot would have to go right next year (KP comes back and looks good, Frank takes a strong step forward, and the 2018 pick looks good) to lure a quality vet here.

    The proposed trade with Phoenix is interesting. Right now that would be the #9 going away for the #15 and 16. Very tempting, depending upon who is available at 9. If someone were to slide on draft night…

    Yeah I mean don’t get me wrong. If a player is 19 and looks to be something special, then you take him. It just feels like we’re now at a point where people write off any player who isn’t coming out after his freshman year. The thought process is “well if he was any good he would have come out after his freshman year because why wouldn’t he want the money right away so he must have stayed in college because he’s not as good.” But that really isn’t the case for everyone and there is the real risk when you draft a 19 year old that he won’t be good for much of his rookie contract and right when he gets good you have to pay him more money.

    Look at Donovan Mitchell. He’s hands down rookie of the year

    This would be extremely stupid.

    Mikal Bridges is probably the best perimeter defender in all of college basketball, both on-ball and off-ball. He’s also one of the most efficient offensive players in all of college basketball, and manages to do it on pretty significant usage. He can guard probably 1-4 in the pros right now, and in college has even guarded centers. He has to have one of the highest floors of anyone in the lottery, and if the super-high ceiling guys are all gone, he HAS to be the pick.

    I hear you. I’d be really happy if they get him. Mikal, Frank, and KP could be the core of a very good defensive team…

    RE Hornacek, I’m very meh on him. His stubborn dedication to veterans (Jack being most notable) is an irritant, and these rumblings about him off the court (last year calling KP a p***y, this year arguing with Noah) does make me wonder about his fit as a head coach. Then there’s his rotations, which are very puzzling at times.

    Like many of you, I just don’t like Mark Jackson. He strikes me as arrogant and a mediocre coach, at best. I could care less about his personal life and alleged hypocrisy.

    The NCAA tournament could change some draft projections,
    for example Young is in a prolonged slump and people start to doubt if he has the durability for the 82 games season (his team is in the bubble and could end un playing in the NIT versus weaker competition)
    On the other side, a good tournement by Mikal could project him higher than expected and the same could happen with others.

    We’ll have a clearer view in a month.

    Meanwhile, JR’s JRing…
    Imagine losing 93K for something like this… Good move

    You have to compensate for upperclassmen vs freshman/sophs…. by how much is not an exact science but the ncaa has high turnover every year and the average age of the competition remains static while a player like mikal gets older… as a player ages in college they get better but the competition gets worse relatively… that is why u18s are very poor barometers to project a prospect…. and judging hs seniors is incredibly tough… that one year in college tells you a whole lot about a prospect and many hs stars just fall flat once they get to college….

    there’s some evidence to suggest that nba projections are a lot stickier to how a player does in their freshman year than their junior or senior years…. sometimes improvement is organic… but most of the time it is due to aging relative to comp….

    This probably won’t happen but I’m a little worried Bagley will fall to the Knicks. Weak defensive centers are just too much of a liability these days. I don’t see how his ceiling is anything other than a better version of Kanter, which wouldn’t be a bad player at all but needless to say would be an unexciting outcome. Hopefully in that situation an eager team would call with a trade-down offer but we tend to not do things that are smart and would probably just take Bagley.

    @strat I took the live over after the brutal 3rd quarter where nobody could score. That BS shot at the end by Saric, instead of running the clock out, made the play hit. That’s basically the type of miracle I need to hit on anything; I’m awful. (I lost on the cavs -10 vs the Nets).

    If Ben Simmons doesn’t win ROY then the award is a joke. Heck, he should be in the top 10 for MVP. He’s similar to Giannis in that he can pretty much do anything but shoot, and guard any position. Last night LeBron had the ball on a break and Simmons caught up to him from behind from about 2 strides back, and it looked like Simmons was jogging. He also stopped LeBron cold and stripped him on an inside post play. He made a 50+ foot, off the dribble cross court pass right to a guy’s shooting hand who was standing at the 3 point line. The guy’s handle at that size is something I’ve never seen. I’m in awe of him.

    Jack is near the end. Offer him a position as an assistant-he is very knowledgeable about the game and has great connections throughout the league. I had heard the same thing about his relationship with Curry. Teaching young players just how to be a pro is a big part of being a coach. This is the kind of guy who may become a good coach.

    Rather than rounding up the usual coaching suspects, let’s get a young assistant coach and develop him, at the same time building the coaching culture. Get rid of guys like Rambis.

    Simmons should and definitely will win ROY. I do have a problem that he’s eligible for it though. I think having an entire year to train and learn with an NBA staff is a huge advantage over players just entering the league. Look how polished Griffin and Embiid were after sitting out whole seasons. I don’t think Simmons should be considered a rookie. He just missed his rookie year.

    Bagley seems like a good complimentary player to KP to me– he’s not a great shot blocker but he has good lateral movement, and can hang with guys on the perimeter. He is also a good rebounder and he has a little bit of range on his shot. Bagley at the 4, KP at the 5 could work I think. I’d jump for joy if he was available at 9.

    BPA is a meaningless term to me. Most people imo here use it to mean the player with the greatest potential when comparing two or more players. Then the relevant question is whether we should prefer a player with a higher floor or one with a higher ceiling. In the KP draft, I felt it was important to pick the guy with a high ceiling and low floor – in other words, a high variance pick. This time, however, I think, it’s better to pick a player with a higher floor like Carter or Mikal. In fact, I’d prefer either of them to Bagley and Bamba. For example, I’d choose Ntilikina over Smith or Fox in a redraft – he had the higher floor because of his defense and the fact he could play potentially 3 positions. There are just too many “high potential” players who turned out to be mediocre players or busts. We’re not in that bad shape to risk it at this stage.

    Frank wrote this:

    Mikal Bridges is probably the best perimeter defender in all of college basketball, both on-ball and off-ball. He’s also one of the most efficient offensive players in all of college basketball, and manages to do it on pretty significant usage. He can guard probably 1-4 in the pros right now, and in college has even guarded centers. He has to have one of the highest floors of anyone in the lottery, and if the super-high ceiling guys are all gone, he HAS to be the pick.

    If that’s true, he should be the pick even if Bagley, Bamba or Porter are still available. I would argue the same for Carter who’s got an outside shot, a post game, rebounds, and no obvious weakness other than “fit” in terms of being mobile enough to guard NBA 4s. It’s possible we could land 1 or 2 stars in free agency in the summer of 2019. Is it that much of a stretch to believe Kyrie and Kawhi talk to each other and want to team up and play at MSG? How many teams would even have the cap to accommodate 2 stars? KP, Kyrie, Kawhi, Frank, Timmy, KOQ, Mikal, 2019 pick is attractive.

    “Bagley would be a steal at 9.”
    Ha, Bagley will be long gone by 9

    “On the other side, a good tournament by Mikal could project him higher than expected and the same could happen with others.”

    If that happens Mikal Bridges will be gone by 9 too.
    Isn’t great that the Knicks will be picking 9-12 and all of these good players will be off the board? Those early season wins sure are coming back to haunt them about now…. This team is cursed and we are doomed to root through this dysfunction for the foreseeable future unless they start getting some of that Lakers luck falling their way.


    b-b-but points and 4th quarter shots!

    Honestly, if Simmons doesn’t win rookie of the year we might as well throw the award away. I’m also a bit weird on him being considered a rookie, but well, those are the rules and he has been insanely good for a 21 year old under so much pressure.

    Of all the players who might plausibly be around when the Knicks pick, I like Mikal Bridges the best. I agree, he does seem like a “high floor” player. Bagley won’t be there at 9 so talking about him is a bit moot.

    Dolan’s Razor says Mikal Bridges gets selected eighth tho.

    THJ has moments of brilliance, and his game really opens up the floor, ideal for the current NBA. But, he does a lot of dumb stuff, especially taking bad shots. He doesn’t let the game come to him.
    Growing up with an NBA dad, I’d think his mental game would, should, be more developed at this stage of his career. And that contract.

    Bagley is sort of interesting… he seems overrated due to his poor defensive stats… he’s rated very highly because he was the #1 hs player coming out and i think there’s a bias that he’s still one of the best….

    He’s not a C… he’s definitely a PF…. he’s not going to anchor a defense and most likely a big liability there…. carter is not a C either but he has more inside defensive skills…. Bagley strikes me as like either a blake griffin or an okafor…. he scores very well at good efficiency but is he going to be able to do that in the pros? to me.. if he’s not as dominant then he’ll be a bust… griffin panned out but okafor really hasn’t…. it’s a huge gamble with big offense no defense type of bigs…. which is the same concern ayton has…

    if he falls to 9 that might be a good gamble depending on what’s left… but i wouldn’t just automatically pick him….

    I agree that Bagley is a 4 in the NBA, but I disagree on Carter; I think Carter is a center in the NBA. Carter is very thick and long and has nice touch around the basket.

    I think Carter could definitely be a Center. I mean, Andre Drummond is barely an inch taller than him and is one of the best paint protectors in the league.

    I like him a lot as a prospect, he looks like a very good rebounder and shot blocker, has very good range on his jumper for his size and seems to score well inside. He could definitely be the Myles Turner of this draft or if everything goes right, a Drummond type of player (probably less of an insane rebounder like Drummond is but a better shooter).

    i kind of think carter is between what love and horford was and the numbers sort of suggest that…. i think he has clearly better defensive potential than love had but it’s unclear if he can have a better defensive impact than horford… he’s smart… he positions well and he’s not totally slow footed so he has a good chance….

    to be considered a defensive anchor… the barometer is usually 4 blocks per 40…. that has been pretty consistent for college centers…. where carter is at… he’s not quite there and physically it lines up with what you see… he’s not quick off the floor… or towers over anyone… he uses his height well when ppl go right at him but he’s not getting those incredible weakside blocks… that’s sort of what horford is defensively…. which in some defenses could be good enough…. but it’s tough to project that….

    but that’s also why carter … imo… has higher upside than ayton and bagley…. he’s demonstrated that there is a possibility of him having really good offense and some defensive capability and if he can play the 5… even part-time.. credibly… he has enormous value…. ayton and bagley are further away on the defensive end which also signals that they might not be as good on offense which imo.. lowers their upside….

    I’m going to the game tonight! Cheap-seats, baby.

    Going with a die-hard Clippers fan (they still exist even after Paul and Blake departed). Going to be hard to root for our boys to lose even though it’s in their best interests, so I’ll just cheer for them to win publicly

    Isola was on WFAN today and brought up an obvious coaching candidate for next year that would be sooooooo welcome- Jeff Van Gundy. I am so into that possibility and would easily put it number one on my list. Defense is a given but JVG has seen where the league is going schematically, is known for getting undying loyalty from his best players, and for the analytics guys, is always at Sloan. He also knows Mills from his previous stint, not sure what their relationship is. Rumor has it that time has softened the relationship between him and Dolan too…

    @69 If he’s open to adopting the new style of the NBA then I would take him back no question.

    I would be happy with JVG, far better than the other possible options, but I just don’t see why he would jump back on the Knicks circus.

    Maybe even Dolan would be okay with JVG since he is a “name” coach.

    But yeah, like Bruno said, why would he want back in? Maybe a feeling of unfinished business?

    JVG, defensive minded, but offense was all about dumping the ball into Ewing and keeping him happy.

    Loved JVG when he was here, but I’m nervous about guys who have been out of coaching for so long. Like I think it was insane for the Raiders to give all that money to Gruden.

    Also, JVG is becoming a bit of a crusty old man in his commentary. He might bah-humbug the modern NBA style and try to do things the same way he was 20 years ago.

    Van Gundy was already adapting his style during his time with the Rockets, so I think he would have no problem adopting to the modern offenses. And his defensive teachings are time-tested, so that would be great. Dude made Glen Rice play defense!!

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