[NYDN] Ron Baker leaves Knicks’ win with shoulder injury (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:54:31 PM)
Baker was in the game less than a minute when his night suddenly was over.
[NYDN] Kanter: ‘May ask for a trade’ if he replaces Love on Team LeBron (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:40:20 PM)
Enes Kanter has flourished with the Knicks this season.
[NYDN] Knicks complete season sweep of Nets with 111-95 win (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:00:39 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis wants to make a postseason push and he finally played like it Tuesday.
[NYDN] Joakim Noah’s exile from Knicks unlikely to end anytime soon (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:14:26 PM)
Joakim Noah’s exile continues.
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 11:08:06 PM)
Enes Kanter did his usual dirty work and was a force inside Tuesday night, but he also showed some impressive playmaking ability.
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 10:54:25 PM)
The battle of New York was no battle. Again.
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 10:45:35 PM)
The Knicks went through their customary postgame victory celebration, slapping fives. Ron Baker joined in and coach Jeff Hornacek thought the guard was nuts. Baker had left the 111-95 victory over the Nets in the first quarter with a right shoulder injury, a possible dislocation. “He said he felt something, he didn’t hear anything, he…
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:18:41 PM)
Before the game, before what turned into another visit essentially to Dante’s seventh circle of hell for his team, Nets coach Kenny Atkinson was bemoaning several undeniable truths. The Knicks routinely have kicked the Nets’ butts this season, with Atkinson noting, “They’ve pretty much dominated us.” But also, the Knicks are a matchup made somewhere…
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 4:05:17 PM)
The Knicks were wearing their City Edition uniforms Tuesday night against the Nets at the Garden. They were designed to commemorate the FDNY, the brave men who put out fires big and small. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek wore a suit and tie, but an FDNY jersey probably was more fitting considering he was still trying…
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:59:20 PM)
Exiled Knicks center Joakim Noah will not be with the team Wednesday in Boston, according to coach Jeff Hornacek, and indications are he may not be back with the team until after the Feb. 8 trade deadline. The Post reported the Knicks have ramped up their trade efforts to see if they can find a…
[NYTimes] Knicks 111, Nets 95: Kristaps Porzingis and Enes Kanter Lead Knicks in Rout of Nets (Wednesday, January 31, 2018 4:54:02 AM)
Porzingis scored 28 points and Kanter had 20 points, 20 rebounds and 5 assists as the Knicks completed a regular-season sweep of the Nets.
[NYTimes] James Harden Sets Rockets Record With 60 Points (Wednesday, January 31, 2018 4:33:30 AM)
Harden became the first player in N.B.A. history to score 60 points as part of a triple-double.
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: What the Blake Griffin Trade Means for the Clippers and Pistons (Wednesday, January 31, 2018 1:54:30 AM)
Los Angeles is creating salary cap space to sign free agents this summer. Detroit is trying to be relevant in the East and sell some tickets.
[NYTimes] Clippers Send Blake Griffin to Pistons in Blockbuster Trade (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:11:19 PM)
The Clippers will receive Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, Boban Marjanovic and two draft picks in the deal.
[SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Knicks react to Kanter’s monster night (Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:34:13 AM)
[SNY Knicks] Enes Kanter laughs off idea of joining Team LeBron for NBA All-Star Game (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 11:45:02 PM)
NEW YORK — With Kevin Love now sidelined 6-8 weeks with a fractured left hand, there’s an open spot in the NBA All-Star Game.
[SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Kanter lead Knicks to 111-95 win over Nets (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 10:13:41 PM)
NEW YORK (AP) Kristaps Porzingis scored 28 points, Enes Kanter had 20 points, 20 rebounds and five assists, and the Knicks completed a New York City sweep of the Brooklyn Nets with a 111-95 victory Tuesday night.
[SNY Knicks] Joakim Noah will not be with team on Tuesday, Wednesday (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:23:37 PM)
Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said C Joakim Noah will not be with the team on Tuesday or Wednesday, coach Jeff Hornacek said.
[SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Bondy on Noah’s future (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:09:36 PM)
[SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Nets vs. Knicks, 7:30 p.m. (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:24:48 PM)
NEW YORK — The Brooklyn Nets, losers of nine out of their last 12 games, head just a short way over to Madison Square Garden on Tuesday night to face the New York Knicks.
[SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: The Knicks can’t keep Ntilikina on the bench (Tuesday, January 30, 2018 11:35:30 AM)
With the emergence of Trey Burke and veteran Jarrett Jack still starting, where does that leave Knicks rookie PG Frank Ntilikina.
(Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:56:34 PM)
Will Joakim Noah ever play for the Knicks again? It’s too early to say for sure, but the signs aren’t looking good.
86 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.31)”
Small sample of course but ever since KP acknowledged he was trying to do too much on offense and had to take better shots/ move the ball — 26.4 points per 36, TS 60.7, usage 28 (for the year his usage is 31.5). Notably he’s also playing just 29 minutes per game as opposed to about 33 min/g for the season. Part of that is that the games haven’t really been that close during that stretch, but I feel like this is a concerted effort to decrease his workload.
He’s also just scorching hot from 3 point range – 54.8% on 5.5 shots/36. That’ll get your TS up.
40+% for the year now. #1 in the league in blocks, #1 in the league in defensive impact at the rim (for players defending 5+ shots/game), shooting >40% from 3. Nice.
Now if he could only get a rebound….
How KP performs in Boston will be indicative of a lot.
next 4 games will determine whether we’re buyers/sellers or what — boston, milwaukee x 2, and the hawks. season’s over if we go 1-3 probably – already 5 games back in loss column to the 8th seed. 2-2 or better (and competitive in the losses) and it might be hard for the FO to sell hard if we play really well against two playoff teams.
Man is Cleveland a dumpster fire.
Out their 2nd most productive player.
Lebron has forgotten how to shoot jump shots
JR Smith retired last year, he just doesn’t know it yet.
Isaiah is a shell of his former self, and brings a skill set that is opposite what the team needs.
Gave up 125 points to Detroit who was missing half their roster.
Over their last 15 games, the Cavs have a net rating of -6.8 — 3rd worst behind the Nets and the Kings.
This will never happen — but the Cavs are only 3 games up in the loss column on Philly who is the 8th seed. It is conceivable (not likely) that they could miss the playoffs now that Love is hurt. They really do need to make a move.
Adam Silver should conduct an investigation as to why Kyle O’quinn isn’t on the Cavs yet.
Can KOQ be traded right into the Kyrie trade exception? Seems like you could do that. Trade KOQ into the trade exception and swap the CHI 2nd rounder for the CLE 1st rounder. Or we could take a salary back also to help with luxury tax.
The 5 games before the trade deadline are @Bos, @Mil, vs Atl, vs Mil, @Tor.
You figure we’re going to beat Atlanta and lose at Boston and at Toronto. So those two games against Milwaukee are the swing games. If we split them, we’ll go 2-3 and be 25-31 overall. If we can lose both to Milwaukee, we’ll be 24-32 and hopefully Perry will pull the trigger on any sales available.
I thought Kevin Love was the reason Cleveland was having issues according to the news from Cleveland over the last few weeks?
I brought this up on the last thread…we should try to make a trade that involves a 2018 pick swap for a pick that is likely to be higher than ours, with Cleveland being the primary target (Nets’ pick). Not only would it benefit us in terms of draft order, it would free Hornacek up to play to win right now so that we can see what he and this team can really do and keep KP happy.
Lee + O’Quinn + McDermott for Tristan Thompson works in the trade machine. Or Lee + O’Quinn + Jack for Shumpert and Frye. There’s lots of possibilities.
@Frank
Despite the recent improvement in his shot selection (which has been apparent), I still think he takes too many of those iso/post up shots that aren’t efficient for him (at least at this stage). He can shoot over people, but unless he’s squared up and balanced, he gets bad results. If we could just get him to eliminate a few more of the trash mid range and long 2s and substitute a few P&R dunks, oreb putbacks, dunks off a cut, or just being strong enough to finish at the rim on his own, he’d be a terror on offense. It’s not hopeless. He’s both learning and will improve. Eventually some of the marginal shots he takes now will start dropping more often too.
Rebounding and passing are other issues.
@9
I think the pick swap idea is brilliant. I wish I thought of it. 🙂
I’d want more back than just a pick swap and Shump/Frye for Lee and KOQ, but conceptually it’s a great idea. Now we just have to work out the details and hope Perry reads our forum.
I have to say. I’m a fan of this team. I’d be really sad to see any of the vets go. I’m still hoping they have a run in them. Maybe it starts tonight with a big road win in BOS. I know Kanter tends to give up enough uncontested dunks to nullify all the things that appear in the box score, but I like the guy. He says the right things. He has the right attitude. He plays hurt. He’s a freakin’ political hero who speaks truth to power whether it’s Erdogan or Lebron. I want him to get better at what he doesn’t do well and I think he’s got the mental attitude to get that done, perhaps.
There’s been Knick teams where I’ve not been able to wait to show guys the door. I feel actively the other way about everyone on this team. They’re just very likable and they play unselfish team basketball. I know we need to get better and leopards don’t change their spots, etc, contracts, cap hits, middling draft position all favor moving players on but I’d much rather this team improves from within. There is still time to make that happen and I really hope it does. Just sayin’
@7 The game at Toronto is after the deadline (February 8th, 3 PM Eastern Time) the decision must be made before it, but I don’t thing this changes something, we could count that game as a loss anyway.
The main games are the 2 vs MILW and how we play vs them and BOS, two playoff teams.
I’m very interested in how KP will play at Boston tonight, he’s 3-25 in the previous two games vs the Celtics (including a 0-11 performance).
@9 LeBron is going away, I’ll doubt that CLE will give away the Nets’ pick, if they do that all they’ll have next year from the Irving trade are Crowder and Zizic… If they’ll use it it will probably be for a trade that includes a “star” player.
Maybe the Cavs should be sellers and tank. lol
@12
The only problem I have with Kanter is that he’s overpaid (and similar to Willy). I don’t see how this relationship ends well. If we keep him long term, we are going to overpay him, he will never really do the job as a starting C, and then what happens as KP transitions to C. He’s not the kind of defensive anchor and rim protector that KP might become when he finally transitions to C full time. I’d way rather get something for him and play KP with Willy until KP becomes C, and then move Willy to backup C. I think that’s the most sensible basketball and financial outcome. It doesn’t have to happen this year, but I think it’s inevitable.
Sure and potential sellers from the trade rumors:
– NYK (KOQ, Lee, Thomas, Noah, Kanter, Jack, Beasley)
– CHA (Batum, MKG, Howard, Kemba, Williams)
– LAK (Randle, Clarkson, Nance Jr.)
– POR (Turner, Leonard)
– ATL (Ilyasova, Belinelli, Bazemore)
– UTAH (Favors, Hood)
– SAC (Hill, Labyssiere)
– CHI (Mirotic)
– DEN (Faried, Mudiay?)
– PHO (Chandler)
– LAC (Gallinari? Williams? Jordan? Bradley?)
– DAL (Matthews?)
Add the “untradable contracts” (Asik, Ajinca, Mozgov, Deng)…
I’m missing someone but we easily lead the league in trade candidates… 🙂
Why isn’t Perry on the line with Cleveland right now saying, “O’Quinn for your ’18 1st and a future 2nd, take it or leave it”?
Sure, we’d have to take back a player to make the numbers work- but this is a no brainer for both teams right now
@11
Yeah, me too! Not to blow my own horn, but I mentioned a pick swap with Cleveland here a long time ago, and on more than one occasion, IIRC. It would be a really nice get for the Knicks, if the Cavs were willing.
However, there are no signs that the Cavs are willing to part with the NJ pick under any circumstances, even a swap. Maybe they get desperate now, though.
Pretty decent game from Harden, but do he play defense tho?
@19,
Yea..great defense against his own team..they never got a shot off! LOL
Great game by Harden tho
kp has made some progress but his 2p fg% during that time is still a really bad 42% … he’s still in love with that turnaround jumper which is killing what should be amazing efficiency…. his rebounding problem looks like it’s not going away either…
he is making quicker decisions though which has resulted in way less turnovers…. and he’s also getting to the line more… both really good signs and more sustainable than his 3pt shooting….
He’s making MUCH quicker shots than before, and dribbling a ton less. That’s HUGE to me! His turnaround jumper is actually a good shot over shorter foes, but he’s gotta lay off that 18ft crap. His offense is noticeably MUCH better.
His defense kinda looks bad a lot of the time though.
The best move for the Cavs would be to call Lebron’s bluff. He is doing exactly what he did to them a few years back when he bolted for Miami. They need to approach him and tell him either he resigns or they trade him before the deadline now so they can get some assets back for him. If he refuses to do either, go public with it and basically create the narrative that Lebron is holding the franchise hostage like he did in 2010 by refusing to resign or be open to a trade.
Cause they ain’t going anywhere this year. I know Lebron always goes nuclear in the playoffs but even if they limp into the finals they aren’t winning anything.
Its not a no brainer for Cleveland to give up picks for a rental when their star player is about to bolt town again. I’m not a Dan Gilbert fan and Lebron go them a title. But Lebron is doing the exact same thing he did to them before. I don’t blame them for not wanting to make trades to improve the team at the expense of hurting a possible rebuild.
He’s a tweener right now.
He’s too slow to handle a lot of the quicker PFs on the perimeter, but his rim protection is elite. He can actually dominate a game on defense for stretches inside. To keep him inside on defense where he belongs, he’s going to have to play a lot more C. However, then you run into problems with his rebounding and lack of strength against the bigger Cs.
He has to gain weight and muscle and we have to find a PF that rebounds well and that can defend the perimeter.
I’m thinking we have to figure out how to get Giannis Antetokounmpo to NY in a few years. 🙂
I see little chance that Cleveland gives up or swaps that Nets pick. Right now the Nets are 6th worst in the NBA, and it’ll probably get worse with Hollis-Jefferson and Levert out. Too valuable to a team that may be in total rebuild mode soon.
But could they really consider trading LeBron? Haven’t heard any rumors, but they may lose him for nothing this summer, might be a smart move. I don’t think he has a no trade clause, only transcendent players like Carmelo Anthony get those.
if i was cleveland i would def call his bluff….. it would be a pr disaster for him and the best options are all in the western conf….. and with the warriors and now the rockets not to mention the spurs and a surging wolves team… he is going to have a really tough time even getting out of the first round with either of the LA teams….
he would have to stay in the eastern conference and the only feasible destination would be boston…. and i doubt they have the ability to sign him…. but maybe a hayward + brown + all their firsts is a crazy scenario that i can see happening….
love + # nets pick is still a better future than any where else… unless the spurs make some cap room… or the celtics make a huge power move…. he’s probably staying put….
Lebron absolutely has a no trade clause.
Edit: the Cavs should at least talk to him about waving it. He probably wouldn’t but you gotta at ask.
RE:
At first I didn’t want to wonder this, but now I’m really wondering if Kanter’s rebounding brilliance has effected KP’s rebounding effort. It’s like he doesn’t try sometimes. I don’t believe he’s a bad rebounder, I just think that maybe between the uptick in usage and Kanter’s presence- he’s not giving the effort.
@29 IMO, that’s definitely part of it. You can visually see him defer a few times a game when the ball is on the 50 yard line between him and another player (especially Kanter). Kanter battles for every rebound, including with his own teammates when he shouldn’t be. If his “job” was to rebound, I’m sure he could get another 1 or 2 a game, but that’s still not enough to anchor the team at C.
What would it take from the Knicks to land Randle from the Lakers?
He might be a good fit in NY at PF next to KP at C.
Even if Lebron didn’t have a no-trade clause, the list of teams that would give up anything acceptable for a Lebron rental is tiny. They’d have to match his $33MM salary with expiring contracts or with other star players, and then they’d have to know that Lebron is re-signing. Not happening.
@29 – it’s not just a Kanter problem. KP currently is just completely unable to anchor the glass on either end of the floor. Look here — lineups with KP at center give up a 32.8% ORB. The very best offensive rebounding team in the league is OKC at 31.1.
Now KP-center lineups still have a positive net rating at +5.7, but the rebounding is a glaring issue – 3rd percentile in offensive rebounding, zero’th percentile in defensive rebounding. If KP could just be a little better on the glass, those lineups would be lights out. Maybe a couple years from now.
Getting a 3-and-R-and-D stretch 4 would be so valuable. There’s just not that many of them out there.
I do wonder what it would take to get Jabari Parker from Milwaukee. Obviously a huge injury risk and is a restricted FA at the end of the year, but having those restricted rights would be pretty interesting given how little cap room is out there this summer. Only 22 years old, marked improvement across his 1st 3 seasons– tons of upside there. I remember us having some interest in him as part of the Melo trade but there wasn’t enough juice there.
Maybe Lee+KOQ+Chicago 2nd for Jabari + Dellavedova?
If you ask me, the biggest issue with these super talented guys is their ego and lifestyle keeps them from becoming productive superstars. The Knicks have a guy in KP who seems to not have an ego larger than his talent and he’s slowly but surely working on the things that make him inefficient and overrated. Mike Beasley and JR Smith should be All-NBA players if we’re talking about talent but things like weed, pride, and late night clubbing kept them from reaching their zenith. I don’t think KP has those same problems. The big thing with KP is whether or not his anemia will keep him from dominating.
The entire league is waiting to see Jabari on friday.
Two knee surgeries in three years are hard to overcome,
(best wishes to him), I’ll wait a bit to trade for him.
And probably the Bucks like to evaluate him and not to trade him after waiting almost a year for his recovery.
No Kyrie tonight, all of a sudden the odds are in our favor.
Winning tonight could really screw all the tank plans…
Rasual Butler and his wife died last night in a car crash. I know he never played for the Knicks but that’s terrible news, and I hope their loved ones have the strength to deal with this together. Rest In Peace.
I realize Lebron has a no trade clause. He can lift that if he wants. My idea was more for Cleveland to trade him to whatever team he wants to end up on next year anyways and he go ahead and sign that extension or promise to commit to the new team. And if he refuses to do so, if I was Cleveland, I would make this a public thing. I’d say “look, in 2010 we wanted Lebron to resign with us but he didn’t let us know anything and we ended up losing him for nothing. He left Miami when he knew we had good pieces for him to be on another good team and now that we’re capped out and hamstrung because of contracts that we felt forced to do because Lebron wanted it, he’s now being tight lipped again and not letting us know so we can plan for the future accordingly. We want Lebron to stay here and retire but if he’s going to jump ship again it would be nice for him to tell us so we could try and prepare ourselves better for the rebuild. Or if he wants to stay, then we can look into a major move to bring him the help he needs to bring Cleveland another championship. But we’re not going to trade away all of our draft picks for a big name and then be left with nothing to rebuild with. If he wants to go, I wish he would tell us so we can trade him and get something back in return.”
Cleveland probably has the most fascinating situation in the league.
They have the best player and are favorites to make the Finals, yet are huge underdogs to actually win a title. They have this great chip in the Nets pick that they could flip for a good player at any time, but they don’t want to because they might go from contender to rebuilding overnight if LeBron leaves. But if they don’t upgrade their talent, they’re stuck well below the Warriors, increasing the chance that LeBron leaves.
Their 2nd-best player is Love, who kills their defense as a center, yet they won’t trade him because they’ll never get back a matching level of talent. Their 3rd-best player is Isaiah, who kills their defense also, but also isn’t worth much on the trade market right now because he’s too difficult to integrate into a new offense mid-season and has an expiring deal.
If they think LeBron is gone this summer and they think they have no chance at a title, it makes sense to explore a LeBron trade. But that’s probably not an option for PR reasons. If they trade him, LeBron will almost certainly come out and say that he was willing to resign in Cleveland but they never gave him a chance, and the fans will all turn on Gilbert.
Love doesn’t kill their defense. Their lack of a great defensive center to cover for all the other shitty defenders Cleveland rolls out is what their problem is, or maybe it’s all the shitty defenders they have on their roster.
D Rose
D Wade
K Korver
JR Smith
J Calderon
I Thomas
I mean that is brutal. Lebron is probably literally the only good defensive player on the team (maybe Shump is okay-Thompson seems sluggish), and he doesn’t/can’t put forth effort on D every night.
The Cavs need to trade for prime Mutombo or David Robinson or make a bunch of small moves to find some guys who can guard on the perimeter
Just for shits and giggles, these LeBron trades all work under the cap and make some sense for both teams.
– to Toronto for DeRozan
– to Washington for Porter, Jason Smith, and a 2019 pick
– to LAC for Gallinari, Lou Williams, Beverley, Detroit’s 2018 pick, and their own 2019 2nd-round pick
They won’t be trading LeBron. He’s gonna walk out that door and be a Houston Rocket in July.
Cleveland is at a stale mate within the originzation, not a good place to be… but they really have no moves that will take down the warriors, they have to be sellers.
The Cavs are toast. They won’t be heavy sellers because you can’t sell a total rebuild to the fans, but it would be the right move. They may not get past Boston or Toronto this year let alone beat the Warriors, Rockets or whoever comes out of the west.
because he would get hung up on. Maybe Cle would do KOQ and Beasley for Frye and those 2 picks?
Interesting article by Ben Falk about the Mirotic / Pels debacle. here’s the money line:
Solution: KOQ + McDermott for Asik and the 1st rounder. KOQ and McDermott would both be in their rotation and would actually solve some of their roster issues. Both come off the cap this summer most likely, giving them the $ under the cap to re-sign Cousins if they want while having a chance to avoid the tax. And KOQ+McD make about 3.2MM less than Asik this season, allowing them more flexibility to make other moves this year under the tax.
Perry and Mills –> DO IT!!
Man – Baker out for a long time with dislocated shoulder and torn labrum. He’s out for the year most likely. Unfortunately it’s too late to apply for a disabled player exception.
Good thing we gave him that player option!! Good job good effort Steve Mills!
I always figured Baker would be put on IR with 3rd degree floor burns. You know, he hustles and all.
Between Baker and Noah, that’s two dead roster spots. Not ideal.
Can we use Ron as salary filler in a trade, assuming anyone would be dumb/desperate enough to take him?
With so many sellers, I have a sick feeling that Perry will try to go ‘buyer’ at the deadline (albeit without sacrificing picks). I think he’s going to try and pry Kemba away, and maybe a few other big names. Not to be a downer, but it’s always the same ’round these parts… you don’t think Kemba will put butts in seats?
Ron Baker Heart Breaker 🙁
4.36 MM:
29 games
13,3 mpg
2,4 ppg 1,6 apg
.339 fg%
.333 3fg%
4.54 MM player option for next year.
Thank you Mr. Mills
It’s a tough time to rebuild. Every team that can’t compete for a title is looking to go young, which is basically everyone. And there’s only a handful of guys that are real game changers.
More than ever, the knicks need to be patient and disciplined. Getting their pick right next time around is critical, and making smart trades or no trades.
Clarence Gains and Steve Perry – in knicks we trust.
Just saying…..
Andy Bailey?Verified account
@AndrewDBailey
Ricky Rubio’s last 15 games: 11.6 PTS, 5.2 AST, 5 REB, 1.6 STL, 40.6 FG%, 35.4 3P%
Ricky Rubio’s last six games: 13.2 PTS, 6.5 AST, 6 REB, 1.2 STL, 43.1 FG%, 38.9 3P%
ess-dog…you are such a typical Knicks fan in assuming the worst.
I get it. We’ve sucked for a long time. But the dour predicting on this site is so lame. We really aren’t that incompetent compared to most NBA franchises.
And Perry has done nothing to make you assume he’s gonna make the worst moves possible. Hell half way through his first season Phil was all ready making moves that made people doubt him. Perry hasn’t done that.
I just hate the doom and gloom on this site. There’s a good chance we will miss the playoffs and people will spend ALL SUMMEr complaining about how dumb we are for not tanking, etc…and will fail to look at the positives. That this team has been actually fun to root for and even with this slide recently the team hasn’t hung their heads or given up. The fact that we might win more games than last year without Melo and KP being the number one option FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER…is a huge thing to build on. Frank has gotten a lot of minutes to get his feet wet this year. KP has been AMAZING at times this year. The injury to Hardaway sucked but he’s proven to be worth most of his contract so far and has been great. We have good veterans that we can deal or keep. We have options on people to resign this summer if we want (KQ, Beasley, McDermott). We’ll have cap space opening up in hte next few years right when KP is hitting his early peak window and we’re gonna add more talent through the draft. Things are great right now but people don’t want to see it because they are so used to hating on their team.
it will be more complaining, more LOL Knicks, more assuming the worst.
We manifest the reality of the world people!
I would not be entirely opposed to giving up our 2019 or 2020 1st round pick (2020 preferred of course) if it helped land a young legitimate potential all star caliber player. We need another star to go with KP. I’m all for building a very young team with guys like Frank and whoever we draft this year. However, guys like that are legitimately 5-6 years away from reaching their peak. I’m a patient guy, but I’m not patient enough to bet it all on 19 year old kids that may not become the stars we need. We have to keep the 2018 pick because it’s likely to be a lottery pick. But if we added a legitimate player and the young players we have now get a little better, we would clearly be a playoff team next year. Flame away. 🙂
question is who you consider a “legitimate potential all star caliber player” and how young is young. Teams don’t really give away those players, so you’d have to take on some risk — for instance someone like Jabari Parker. I wouldn’t give up the 2018 1st for Jabari (we will have to make that decision within the next 8 days before we really know how well he’s recovered from his ACL), but would definitely at least consider a heavily protected (like top 20) 2019 1st if his medicals check out.
Many have been so focused on their Phil hate because of the mistakes he made they failed to realize he left us in a good position going forward. We kind of screwed it up a little by overpaying for Hardaway and Baker when using the Rose cap space, but Hardaway is playing well. I’m not so sure that deal isn’t fine even if we paid more than we should have. We need a starting PG and SF (at least one of which has to be an all star caliber player) and we are going to be very good quickly, have upside, and some space in a couple of years to potentially add another star. We have to fill those 2 spots first. Maybe Frank will be the PG of the future that we need, but he’s 4-5 years away (at least) from reaching his peak.
Woah, what did I miss??
I’ve made it a habit over the past, oh, 4 or 5 years now, to only follow this team in the off-season and at the trade deadline. Because the only entertainment they’ve given me this century has been the levels of incompetence they manage to routinely plummet to.
So, here we are nearing the trade deadline. Is this going to be the year they turn it around? Or is NY destined to end the year in the worst possible place imaginable: the #9 seed in the east.
Seriously, it doesn’t look like I’ve missed much the past couple of months. Frank N hasn’t set the league on fire… Willy H doesn’t play… KP is still the same KP he was rookie year… But I’ve had fun yesterday and today reading up on you guys and getting a sense of the trade climate. This is always a fun week. (And by fun I mean terrifying, of course).
@56
The “who” is a very tough question, but I’d go up to age 26 or maybe even 27 for the right player. Players remain productive longer these days.
I wouldn’t give up a 1st round pick for Parker, but I wouldn’t mind gambling on him if we could make a deal I’d be happy with.
A few weeks ago someone mentioned Randle in LA. At the tine I was lukewarm because I didn’t see the fit. But thinking ahead further than I was at the time, I think he’d be a damn good fit with KP when we eventually move KP to C. He’s young, athletic, efficient, getting better, and rebounds very well for a PF.
Dude, it’s a knicks blog.
Saw this suggestion on twitter:
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Had a smart person I trust suggest Knicks offer Noah and their first to Dallas for Wes. Basically same money. Dallas gets a first and maybe Noah can do something for them in the rebuild. Wes at least gives Knicks something for the money. Makes too much sense to happen.
That is a massive hell no for me.
who wouldn’t want to give up a first rd pick to add the 6th sg to our roster…
One player. That’s all the knicks need to be the three or four seed in the East. The friggin Miami Heat are 1/2 game out of third place and Cleveland is imploding. The only real dominant team in the conference is Boston.
As much as the knicks need a high draft pick, winning is more important. Sure, they need to draft well wherever they wind up.
Then, they need to sign the FA that wants out of their current situation and feels they can put the knicks over the top.
The knicks have the one thing to offer that no other team in the NBA has. Madison Square Garden. There’s no other arena like it. I still get the chills when I walk in that building. Just like Kobe and Lebron and MJ.
Some people have peculiar definitions of smart. Because 31 year old shooting guards on the downhill for three years are worth giving up a lottery pick for. Sooooo stooopid.
This myth has pretty much been de-bunked by the likes of Greg “I’d Rather Play In The BMO Harris Bradley Center” Monroe, and LeBron “I’d Rather Take My Talents To The Place Knick Fans Go When They Retire” James.
You couldn’t be more wrong. You missed the entire point of my comment. And made my point.
Those players didn’t want to play for a loser. They chose teams they felt were going to succeed.
If the knicks were able to offer that AND offer them center stage, that’s an ace in the hole.
@Strat
I like Randle and I don’t think we’d need to give up a lotto pick to get him, just take on that shitty Deng contract.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7ml6wvw
NYK gets Randle, Deng, Ennis, lesser of OKC or MIN 1st
LAL gets Aldrich (non-guaranteed next year), KOQ (player option next season), Brooks, Georges-Hunt
MIN gets Lee, Jack
NYK rolls the dice on Randle and effectively eats Deng’s shitty contract for the honor. Downside is this takes the Knicks out of 2019 FA, so this is a definite risk/tradeoff.
LAL is a Clarkson dump away from having 2 max slots and re-enacting the Knicks’ doomed 2010 summer. Magic goes from half to full mast.
MIN trades away 3 nothing players and a 20s pick for a wing who provides depth and can actually shoot and space the floor. They’re not going to be FA players for the foreseeable future as it is and still leaves them with the better of 2 picks this year.
Aaron Gordon is another guy I’d be interested in, but I’m not sure what his trade market is. Him at the 4 would be very intriguing.
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a player I feel has been in garbage situations his entire career, paired with non-spacing 5s and often shoehorned at the 3 when he should be a 4 next to a spacing 5. Maybe NYK can make a deal here that helps CHA clear space and pick up a still young player for very cheap. He has very significant flaws, but I think he elevates us defensively and unlocks more minutes for KP at the 5.
@67 Do the trade machine know that by getting Deng we have over 30% of our cap and two roster spots chained to him and Noah for the next 2 years?
We couldn’t take any bad contract until we trade Noah, one is already too much.
Not trading is better then trading bad.
It’s the price of taking a risk on Randle while also netting an extra 1st this year. Our cap situation would obviously not be great for the next couple of years, but I think this is a move that gives us way more potential long term in building around Porzingis, Frank and this year’s highly likely lotto pick.
Now if you don’t think Randle is all that great or that the potential is worth committing your cap to two balls of suck, that’s fair. If I found out Perry turned down this exactly deal I wouldn’t exactly go crazy, but it’s one I would make because I think Randle has made real strides in his game on both ends this season. He’s one of the few young players in the league who I feel complements KP on both ends of the floor and to get an extra 1st in the process is pretty nice too.
Just throwing out ideas anyways.
I’m with you on Randle, and I was a non believer that changed opinion when he destroyed us ten days ago (maybe I have the Rivers’ Syndrome, get whoever plays well against us 🙂 ).
He’s restricted and the Lakers could not match if they want to try a Miami,
if we could clear some space at the deadline he could be a good target this summer.
Question: is Noel a headcase?
I haven’t seen much of Randle, but he strikes me as a low IQ player that will frustrate you in ways that Michael Beasley has not figured out yet.
@71
You’re probably right, maybe that’s why I’m in favor of resign Beasley…
🙂
Don’t worry about low IQ players, next year with Messina patrolling the lines our team IQ will immediately be better…
Full disclosure: I’m dreaming…
We are not going to kick doom and gloom to the curb. That I know.
Randle’s very intriguing, but he is reportedly not popular on the team. May be a bit of a headcase, but sometimes guys like that grow up. Sometimes.
You know, OQ for Randle matches up. With OQ almost sure to opt out, might that interest LA?
Oh sure, add a couple of good starters (including one All-Star) and this is a good team. That’s also true for pretty much every team in the NBA. Phil’s most notable success was not trading their first round picks (and then drafting best player available – which was debatable with Ntilikina, but enough people had him BPA there that it was a very reasonable pick), and that was something Dolan had already decided not to do before Phil got here. So yes, after three years of being awful without trading first round picks, the Knicks are better off than when they did not have those first round picks, but that’s the same thing that nearly any GM could have done (although Phil deservedly gets credit for actually making the BPA picks. Other GMs could have theoretically screwed that up), since it literally was as simple as doing what Dolan was already determined to do (not trade first round picks when you’re not a good team). Nearly every other decision Phil made was terrible. If they just had a monkey trained to pick the best available player in each draft as their GM, they’d be better off, since the monkey presumably would have been trained to not sign veterans to terrible win-now contracts for a team that was not going to win now.
Looking at the stats, I would say that O’Quinn is somewhat better than Randle and not a head case and likes it here. I can’t tell from the stats, but I suspect he defends better than Randle. But Randle is younger, so it’s a reasonable even swap, but LA won’t see it that way. The Lakers are getting offers that include a pick (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756992-lakers-trade-rumors-1st-round-pick-offered-for-julius-randle-jordan-clarkson), so I think they would want some sort of pick too. I don’t think I would do that, but who knows.
True, but the knicks have a good, young nucleus.
And it’s really one guy. One All-Star to replace Lee or Jack vaults them to #2 – #4 in the East.
Stranger things have happened.
Agreed, but “Stranger things have happened” =/= “Left in good position going forward.”
Brian,
I obviously disagree with you (and most in the media) on a number of matters and strategies related to Phil. We have been down this path before.
I would simply suggest the mentality here about Phil (at times) was much like the mentality towards Trump on CNN/MSNBC. If the man cured lung cancer they would call him a sexist because he didn’t cure breast cancer first. It’s pointless to debate someone that can only find one side of everything.
When you take over a team that missed the playoffs, that had a couple of players with legal/behavioral issues, a couple with bad contracts, an excellent C that wanted out, you are missing 2 1st round picks in the next 3 years, and you are capped out, you have been dealt about as bad a hand as you can possibly be dealt. That’s a bad position to be in in a high pressure market.
If 3 years later you leave the same team with Porzingis, Frank, Willy, Dotson, 20 million in cap space, and all your picks going forward, you have left the team in a better position to rebuild than it has been in many many years.
Sure, he made mistakes as they all do (though some moves considered mistakes were low risk cap space rollovers and not mistakes). Noah was a big mistake. We could clearly be further along if he did some things differently, but to argue he didn’t leave us in good shape is borderline delusional.
Strat, I think most people’s logic is, Phil didn’t behave like a GM and the Knicks lost a lot, so therefore he was a horrible GM. But I agree with you, he started with a horrible hand and now we are much better off.
we get you discovered mood affiliation bias but you don’t have to mass diagnose it in every post. If you want to twist yourself in a bayesian knot so tight that your priors submit and finally agree that Phil Jackson was actually a good GM go for it but don’t assume everyone who disagrees just needs to read cialdini.
Wait, the Knicks are “in good shape,” is that what we’re supposed to believe? We’re treading water in a sea of mediocrity with no avenues to get any better other than the #9 pick we get to cash in every year. We have a coach who has us playing the dumbest brand of basketball in the NBA, built around an attack of long-range twos.
“Good shape.” Oh man, that is the best.
I don’t recall ever saying that Phil was a good GM. I’ve only said the discussion here on Phil and the Knicks is rarely close to balanced. So I do my part to try to drag it there by pointing out the other side. You would think people would appreciate me saying we are in decent shape compared to the past.
People here say they want to rebuild primarily by tanking and getting draft picks. Fine. I get it. I just want to point out that when you draft 19 year old kids you should be ready for a 6-8 year rebuild. That’s how long it takes for a series of kids like that to mature mentally and as basketball players so they can actually contend. Frank is not going to be really good for another 4-5 years. Whoever we draft this year will be ready 4-5 years after that. By 2025-2027 we might have a good enough team to contend ASSUMING we draft very well.
We just went through a 3 year period where we were missing 2 1st round picks. That hurt our rebuild badly. If we had those picks we would be where the T-Wolves were last year.
I’m not happy with where we are either, but we are in WAY BETTER shape now than we’ve been for many years. This is how rebuilds work.
“Left the team in a better position to rebuild” categorically does not equal “left them in a good position,” which was what we were discussing.
Vlade Divac has done a terrible job in Sacramento, but the Kings are in “a better position to rebuild” than they were when he got there. They’re not in a good position by any stretch of the imagination, but they’re in a better position than they were in 2015.
“Left the team in a better position to rebuild” can be achieved by simply “don’t trade your first round picks when you suck.” So long as you do that when you take over a shitty team, you’re going to be better off after a few years than you were when you started, no matter what other moronic moves you make, just by virtue of adding high draft picks.