[NYDN] Knicks barely avoid collapse, hold on for 100-96 win over Mavs (Sunday, January 07, 2018 4:50:27 PM)
For three quarters, Kristaps Porzingis got his groove back. Then he needed help from Jarrett Jack.
[NYDN] Knicks guarantee point guard Jarrett Jack’s contract (Sunday, January 07, 2018 12:17:59 PM)
The Knicks have guaranteed the contract of Jarrett Jack, who has rebounded from two years of injury to start 36 consecutive games.
[SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Jack lead Knicks to 100-96 road win over Mavericks (Sunday, January 07, 2018 9:57:29 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis scored a game-high 29 points while Jarrett Jack hit a go-ahead jumper in the final minute to lead the Knicks to a 100-96 win over the Dallas Mavericks on Sunday.
[SNY Knicks] Beasley to miss Sunday’s game due to sprained left ankle (Sunday, January 07, 2018 6:05:44 PM)
Knicks forward Michael Beasley won’t play in Sunday’s game against the Dallas Mavericks due to a sprained left ankle.
[SNY Knicks] Knicks guarantee Jack’s contract (Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:32:33 PM)
The Knicks guaranteed point guard Jarrett Jack’s contract by keeping him on the roster for Sunday’s game against the Mavericks.
[SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks vs. Mavericks, 7 p.m. (Sunday, January 07, 2018 4:58:28 PM)
Recent clashes between the Dallas Mavericks and New York Knicks have centered on the Dirk Nowitzki-Kristaps Porzingis matchup, and rightfully so. The two 7-footers represent opposite ends of the spectrum, at least in terms of career arc, in the development of the stretch-4 forward.
[SNY Knicks] Enes Kanter hopes to retire with Knicks (Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:10:13 AM)
Knicks C Enes Kanter hasn’t played a full season with his new team, yet he wishes to retire in New York.
(Sunday, January 07, 2018 11:13:00 PM)
Jarrett Jack’s tiebreaking basket with 31.2 seconds left puts the Knicks up for good in win at Dallas.
(Sunday, January 07, 2018 7:30:17 PM)
DALLAS — The Knicks have guaranteed the contract of starting point guard Jarrett Jack for the rest of the season, general manager Scott Perry announced on Sunday.
(Sunday, January 07, 2018 7:13:37 PM)
DALLAS — Advantage, Frank Ntilikina. In the battle of rookie point guards, Ntilikina had the better game than Dennis Smith Jr., though often times they weren’t on the court together or matched up with one another. Though on the bench the final four minutes, Ntilikina had a decent outing, scoring seven points, five assists, seven…
(Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:06:48 PM)
DALLAS — All the pregame talk was about the first matchup between rookie point guards Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr., whom the Knicks passed on with the No. 8 pick in last spring’s draft. But the matchup that won Sunday’s game was the landslide domination of Kristaps Porzingis over aging Dirk Nowitzki and starting…
[NYTimes] New Pregame Trickery: Distract the Visiting Team With Bad YouTube Videos (Sunday, January 07, 2018 11:19:03 PM)
Rutgers is out in front with the latest form of gamesmanship. Just watch the Mr. Trololo video to understand how this tactic might work.
83 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.08)”
Watched bits and pieces of the game – was looking forward to Frank guarding DSJ but I guess they weren’t on the floor much together.
Brief thoughts –
– Frank really seems to have a penchant for live-ball turnovers in the clutch. I didn’t see much of the early 4th quarter when it seems he was playing really well, but I don’t blame Hornacek at all for bringing Jack back in late.
– the refs were really terrible in the stretch. I know it’s a Barea thing where he’s so small and stubby they basically let him get away with anything, but between him and Matthews committing felony assault on Jack and KP, it’s no wonder the game got close at the end. Maybe the 90s style officiating was in honor of Derek Harper?
– Hornacek has to do something about KP’s shot difficulty. Turnaround heavily contested long 2’s cannot be such a big part of his game, especially when his major separation move is just being tall. Sometimes I think he’s shooting just to get the foul call which is ok, but in a game like last night where they literally weren’t calling anything, you can get some pretty ugly shots.
– I thought Kanter’s defense was surprisingly good earlier this year but he is back to his old tricks. Man is he a statue, and it sure feels like between him, Lance, and Beasley, we must lead the league in dumb and-1’s for the other team.
Jack didn’t have a bad stat line last night, but he is a reserve guard and Lance Thomas does not belong on an NBA roster. We have been starting these guys in the name of veteran leadership and that pisses me off. More than anything I understand why Jack starts because Frank Ntilikina isn’t ready to be named the starter. Once Ntilikina gets that assignment, he’s going to be the starter for the next 10 years so there’s no rush. The Lance Thomas issue, however, to me is an indictment on Doug McDermott. He needs to stop wetting the bed when he gets opportunities because I’m sick and tired of Lance Thomas’ stat lines where he has 2 points and 1 rebound in 25 minutes. Doug McDermott could get us 3 3PM in that same time but he’s been playing like shit. Lance Thomas is a low IQ effort guy who has a hero baller’s mentality. It makes me so mad that Doug McDermott can’t usurp him in the line up. What a crumb.
I know a lot of you guys hate what KP is turning to as of recent, and it bothers me too. But wouldn’t it be easier for KP if he didn’t have to play in line ups where he and Lee are the only viable shooters? Whenever Jack and Thomas shoot I assume it’s a miss. The Knicks are surrounding KP with guys who aren’t dribble-drive penetrators or 3 point shooters. It’s terrible because that means there is nobody who can truly take advantage of his gravity on that end. We really shouldn’t prioritize Lance Thomas’ defense (he can’t actually guard anybody) because the threat of his defense is nowhere near as valuable as the threat of McDermott hitting 5 3s in the first half of a ball game. We’d win more games if Lance Thomas never played, and I think KP’s usage would come down.
I thought Frank played pretty well last night, especially in the first half. When he and Baker are on the court, the D is strong.
I agree with Glass’ thoughts on Lance; he shouldn’t play more than 10 mins a game. I hope he’s the odd man out when THJ gets back.
KP was good early but then invisible in the 4Q. There were a few times where he had Wes Matthews on his and could not score. I’m more optimistic about him then most, but I was disappointed last night that he can’t score when we need him to
Once Hardaway is back, Thomas will get buried on the bench and hopefully KP will take fewer dumb ass shots. Hardaway is kind of critical to this team. It’s not so much that he’s so good. It’s that the alternative is terrible and we don’t have another scorer other than Beasley. That makes it tougher on KP.
I thought that possession where Frank switched onto Dirk was awesome. Not only was he strong enough to keep him on the outside, when Dirk went to his fade away, Frank was long enough to contest the shot. That’s freaking amazing. Sure Dirk is not what he used to be, but when your PG can switch onto one of the toughest covers in the league and hold his own, you’ve got something special. If he comes back next year with a better handle, a bigger burst, and better shot, just wow.
The final word on Dalla and Frank from the horses mouth:
Before the game, Rick Carlisle indicated the Mavericks were ready to draft Ntilkina if the Knicks took Smith and was “desperate’’ to interview him.
“I like him a lot,’’ Carlisle said. “I love the way he competes. He’s young and he is growing quickly. I love the consistency of his competitiveness. Defensively he’s really ahead of the curve for a rookie with his length, intensity and anticipation. I understand why New York drafted him eighth.”
You have to give Jack some credit for hitting that final shot. JJ Barrea was beating him up for like 5 mins straight, and fouled him on that play too. I wish he had done Sam Cassell’s giant testicles dance after it went in, but I don’t think that’s legal in Texas
I haven’t been super happy with Hornacek’s offense recently, but I have to give props on the defensive end. We’re currently 50% through the season and the Knicks are an above average defense (14th) despite starting Kanter, Jarrett Jack, and Tim Hardaway for much of the season, and with two of the worst defenders in the league playing significant minutes on the bench (Beasley/McDermott). That’s the only thing that makes me think we might be able sneak into the playoffs — the offense will likely improve significantly once THJ comes back, and a top half defense over 40 games is probably a real thing.
There was a stretch where the Knicks were really carried by KO and Frank that was pretty nice to watch, when that Dirk possession happened. Frank needs to get more confident, he was able to turn the corner against Dallas guards multiple times but only once he actually went and made a layup.
Once he learns to take these opportunities he’ll be a fine offensive player. He could definitely use some of the irrational confidence Smith Jr has in his game.
We’ve discussed this before, but why can’t KP set a decent screen? Defenders just slip right through them. It would free him (and the PG) up for much easier scoring opportunities.
He’s got one of the greatest screeners ever as a teammate in Noah, can’t he show him how it’s done?
KP needs to set better pics for his own benefit. He and Frank/Timmy should be practicing the pnr every day.
His asset is that he’s tall af (and moves pretty well). With Barea and Matthews playing them, there’s absolutely no way they shouldn’t have an absurd mismatch if there’s a switch. If there isn’t a switch, KP can run to the hoop for a lob.
They are both just young. They will practice and get better (I hope).
has there ever really been a case of a coach trashing another team’s player? i don’t really see anything too amazing from that quote…
as for kp’s 4th q…. the team kind of struggles trying to get kp the ball when he gets fronted as there’s a big sagging in the paint behind also…. we also look very uncomfortable as a team when that happens…. i find it pretty concerning since that’s a basic way to defend postups in the modern era… and seems like we’re just not practicing it or have a sufficient answer…. part of that is personnel also so i won’t bash hornacek too much but we should act like we’re expecting it at least….
how horrible would it be if we gave koq an extension? by the time noah expires wily’s extension would be kicking in so he can move to the bench if needed but koq is proving to be fairly valuable.. he hits the boards.. gives good effort on d… can hit a jumper and most importantly he’s a pretty awesome passer …
i thought it might be a no brainer to deal koq but thinking about it more i think you can justify an extension esp if he’s playing like this….
@11
I’d be fine with a KOQ extension, but only if we were able to move Kanter in order to get Willy some minutes and/or traded Lee.
Really? He understood why the Knicks took Frank? Because he was the best player on the board in his opinion is the only reasonable explanation. They both played the same position. He didn’t have to make ANY statement but made a truthful one. He didn’t say, “WOW…. I was so happy they didn’t take our guy because he is such an obviously wonderful player.”
He didn’t have to throw shade at Frank, but saying he understood why the Knicks took him speaks volumes.
We’ve all been unhappy with KP’s cruddy midrange ISO efficiency as well as his 2nd half fades, but last night was excusable given how horridly officiated it was late in the game. Matthews basically set up a wack-a-mole game in KP’s shorts with the intent of getting the high score. There’s strong physical defense (i.e. Marcus Smart), and then there’s . . . whatever last night was. I can give KP a pass on that one, especially since his first half showed quicker decision making and more kinetic drives to the hoop.
well a less generous interpretation could be that he understood why the knicks took frank because they valued his defense more and overlooked his offensive deficiencies…. or an even lesser generous interpretation could be that he understood that the knicks took frank instead because we are dumb like that…
carlisle is one of the more well spoken coaches out there and also a class act… he said nice things about frank but i don’t think you would expect anything less from him even if frank didn’t deserve it….
It’s true – Matthews was playing pretty dirty. Also, KP should be able to shoot over someone without having his balance arm hit/tapped/etc. That one no-call made the problem obvious. Sorry, that’s just a foul, even if the height advantage is “unfair”.
Back to the Mark Jackson freak out yesterday on this blog. Can I ask what exactly Mark Jackson has done as a coach that makes people think he is so horrible?
I mean, I know about how he has a huge ego and how things went kind of south in GS. And I know when Kerr took over they went from good to all time great team. And yes, Kerr changed things up on the offensive end. But also, it seems like Kerr gets too much credit sometimes for taking over a team right at the time their best players all took leaps to the next level (kind of reminds me of the coach Kerr played under as a player….Phil Jackson).
Mark Jackson took the Warriors when they were shit and made them a playoff team. That’s his only record as a head coach in the NBA. Is he a great coach for real or was that just a happy accident? I don’t know. But it seems to me the reason why everyone hates him has a lot more to do with his personality, his loudmouth and his religion (and I’m not religious but still), than with his actual record as a coach, which is good.
I like Hornaceck actually and think we should stick with him even if this season kind of falls apart. He’s shown me enough to stick around another year or two while we continue this rebuild. But that collective freak out about Mark Jackson on this blog yesterday seemed like a nice mixture of Knicks fans loving to feed into the negativity of this franchise (you guys live for it sometimes) and dare I say it, some subtle discrimination against Mark Jackson for no real reason. Hey, I get it. It annoys me that he says “hands down man down” too but give it a break. Always assuming the worst about The Knicks gets really old. You guys claim to want a rebuild but when we actually lose games you start trashing the franchise again for no reason.
“I’d be fine with a KOQ extension, but only if we were able to move Kanter in order to get Willy some minutes”
The best option would be to trade Kanter.
If they could get back a decent quality young player (s) for Kanter it would be a homerun even if they had to sweeten it with the Chicago 2nd rounder or take back a longer contract. As long the contract (s) they take back is/are fair, I’m good.
The duplications are Noah/O’Quinn and Willy/Kanter.
It’s not O’Quinn/Willy.
Moving O’Quinn kind of frees Noah for O’Quinn’s role instead of freeing Willy to struggle with the same matchups Kanter struggles with. If we trade O’Quinn, don’t be surprised if Noah gets a promotion and Willy is still buried. Willy may have to win the job from Kanter to get a lot of minutes even if O’Quin is moved.
Ok….I get it… Phil picked him therefore he must suck eggs…. Let’s strap Carlisle to a polygraph and see what it says.
I defy any DS fanboi who has watched the first half of this NBA season (or last night) and tell me and make a reasonable argument based on reality where DS is the better prospect or player today or in the future without wishcasting.
To quote Vizzini…..” I’m waiting!”
I mean in reality DS might end up the better player, but there is nothing to base that hope on other than ’cause Knicks…. its so Knicksy…. or hows it goink?
RE: KP, KOQ, Willy:
KP has really hit the wall…again..3rd season in a row. That is..disconcerting- to say the least. I wonder if it’s physiological or injury related.
KOQ is making it hard to want to trade him. I think having Kanter and Willy’s play at the end of last season has really brought put the best in him. I don’t see why his market isn’t bigger than it is. I’m not a fan of helping contenders in out conference, but I’d take no less than a ’18 first from Cleveland or Boston, where he’d fit in great. He’d also fit in with the Dubs really well.
It kinda feels like Willy is being force fed minutes moreso because of the interest in him as opposed to Beasley’s injury. I’m sure at some point Hornacek is thinking the team could use Willy’s offense while Beasley is out, but trotting him out there with KOQ or Kanter isn’t really the best of ideas. And KOQ has been playing so well lately, it’s got to be hard to find minutes for Willy. Nevertheless, I don’t see another team blowing Perry away with an offer for him. We may be stuck with this big man glut all season
Knicks hovering around .500, which is no man’s land in the NBA. Not good enough to make noise in the playoffs and not bad enough to get a game changer in the draft.
Buckle up for continuing mediocrity, and below average point guard play for the foreseeable future
@19
We tend to compare players in terms of per 36 minute production, but some players aren’t as productive past a certain number of minutes. O’Quinn is what they call an “energy” guy. He’s hits the boards really hard, tries to block shots and is very active while he’s in. The problem is he can’t sustain what he does at the same level for 36 minutes. o some degree the same is true of Kanter. That’s partially why he doesn’t get a full 36 minutes either. Another example would be Kenneth Faried. If you are viewed as a backup, the market is not going to be as high as if your game and productivity is more stable for 36 minutes and you start.
i’m saying there’s lots of ways to interpret what carlisle said… although i think it’s a rather generous interpretation if you think dallas somehow preferred to take frank and that he was the better pick… that is seriously crazy to me…. i’m not saying that carlisle implied that frank was a bad pick either if you try to understand what i wrote….
and it’s not hard that to say that smith probably will be the better prospect… but it’s not like anyone who is paying attention would be convinced of it now if they weren’t convinced before….
We are probably reading way too much into Carlise’s comments. He would have said the same thing if the Knicks selected Smith and Frank was on his team and been sincere in both cases.
@ 23 – call me crazy but I seem to recall that Frank was considered the better prospect than DSJ. I mean, it wasn’t some huge consensus or anything but it feels like almost every sports pundit/website/article had Frank going higher than DSJ and once the Knicks made the pick, then the narrative immediately changed to why didn’t the Knicks pick DSJ.
I was actually surprised at the nature of Carlisle’s comments about Frank, but then again I’m not familiar with his comments about other players in general. Maybe he’s always gracious like that?
Also, he reminds me of Jim Carrey too much (well, Jim Carrey with no hair or beard, like late in the movie Man on the Moon). Freaks me out.
🙂
Agree but FWIW, NBA.com had KP with 7 screen assists last night.
Re: KOQ – I’d much rather trade him, but I’d be fine with bringing him back at something around the MLE number. He really has had a very productive year (basically 15 points, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks per 36), takes fewer bad shots and generally makes fewer dumb passes. I know we have a glut at center already, but KOQ on a positive contract would still be a trade asset. I know Willy is younger and cheaper but it’s no guarantee that he’ll ever be as good as KOQ, and if we could get a pick or wing player with Willy I would be ok with doing that.
Meanwhile, scary little note from Woj’s piece today:
This sounds scarily like we might be buyers at the deadline. This would be a very bad idea (depending on the deal of course). Trading KOQ or Willy for a young wing would be fine, but young wings are in demand and will likely require an overpay.
If we’re actually buyers in the trade deadline I will be so pissed. I still don’t think that’s true, and it’s probably just the Knicks inquiring into some PGs or wings to see if a great deal presents itself, but I’m a Knicks fan so I’m scared.
The course of action should be to trade KO or Kanter, whoever brings the best offer, and sell immediately on Lee for any picks. Lee’s numbers are about the same as last year, but he’s shooting slightly better from 3 with a bit more usage. I highly doubt his value will ever be higher than it is right now and some decline is to be expected in the near future.
i was actually kind of relieved that the knicks actually realize that they are pretty weak at sf…. thankfully i think the sf is too bare for the knicks to jerk themselves unless they really are interested in bazemore or carroll….. if they are … yea we should be terrified….
i would actually love to get mkg if we could.. but i don’t think charlotte would give him up for what we would offer….
If we become buyers, I will be out on Perry in a hurry. Especially since we don’t have many assets to trade. Being buyers will mean dealing a pick (disastrous), Frank (very bad), or Willy (probably dumb, but I’m lower on Willy than most so it depends what we get back).
MKG is what he is at this point, and I don’t think Charlotte can reasonably expect him to become a net positive on the offensive end. Would you do a WHG plus our Bull’s 2nd rounder for him?
I see this as a non issue.
Of course we are looking to upgrade, but only if we move one of the players we’ve been discussing like O’Quinn, Kanter, Lee, and to a lesser degree Willy or the Bulls 2nd round pick. We aren’t going to move KP, Frank, or a first round pick. Nothing else matters much as long as we win the trade or at least get a fair deal and improve by filling a greater need (like at SF) .
I would really only deal one of the vets for mkg unless we are getting their first also…. hes a good placeholder for the 3 spot… if we draft a future wing this year… and eventually move to a tony allen role if his shot never develops….
A kanter deal would make sense if they didnt already have howard….
@ 32 – thank you. We’re getting a bit of tank tunnel vision with this crowd. The point is to improve the team long term without sacrificing draft picks (not draft order). If we can find a way to unload one of our vets and get a younger/better PG and/or wing…we should be looking to do that whenever.
There probably isn’t any worthwhile sf out there either as buyers OR as sellers, unless some idiot team does something stupid (besides us).
It may be possible to move Kanter for a young SF on a similarly unattractive contract.
That frees Willy, allows us to keep O’Quinn, fills a need, and does not damage the team long term. I don’t have anyone in mind without research, but I would not be opposed to that in a theoretical sense. IMO, everyone is worrying about O’Quinn, but the real logjam is that Willy and Kanter are too much alike. One them has to go eventually and I would rather it be Kanter.
I dont see many teams who would be outright interested in Kanter. Perhaps the wizards, and trade Kanter for Mahinmi/Satoransky/1st.
But I think there is a possibility to be the 3rd team in a trade, where we eat the bad contracts of a contender and get a 1st, while giving up Kanter as a semi-young expiring contract to another team. Lets say the Clippers trade DeAndre Jordan, but dont want to take up bad contracts so they have cap space in the short term and stay competitive this season.
I’m not saying I necessarily want Harkless for 3 years, but something like Harkless and Davis for Kanter could be done. It was rumored NY had some interest in Harkless during the Melo negotiations. The Knicks would get a defensive minded SF that’s a huge upgrade from Thomas and only 24, an expiring contract in Davis. Portland gets an upgrade at backup C with Kanter and he will come off the book 1 year before Harkless.
That frees Willy for development and also makes it easier to move Lee because we can start Harkless.
go luke 🙂
horny’s comments reference the roster makeup and having (4) “point” guards and (4) centers on the roster:
okay, so, effectively you really have (5) centers and (4) “point” guards on your (15) player roster…i understand though – horny is simply touting the company line – but c’mon perry, clean up the roster…
Bye, Ramon? Or is a trade brewing? Either way, glad they’ve stopped messing around on this. Either he’ll be good or he won’t, but we need to find out.
I understand the idea behind spacing and dragging big defenders out to the perimeter where they are uncomfortable and can’t protect the paint. But if you tried that against Shaq, Kareem, and any number of other dominant big men years ago they would demolish you on the boards and score 40 efficient points inside. The problem is that we don’t have any of those dominant big men that CAN play in the post and do it efficiently anymore. Shaq would average 35 and 15 today.
Hopefully by Ramon!
Exactly. This had to be done. And hopefully it is for Sessions.
@ Geo – the current roster is less than half a season together as is. Players acquired in trades only just became available for trading a few weeks ago. The team has played better than expected and they’re probably trying to figure out who they want to keep, who they want to trade and who they can trade. Patience dude.
TBH I don’t think there are really any truly dominant big men like that anymore. Obviously no one is getting close to Shaq and Kareem, but kind of bigs you are talking about are few and far between in the NBA these days. If they do exist they aren’t much more than rebounding/defensive specialists. Which is a shame. I used to love watching Shaq just destroy defenders on the block. I guess peak Dwight was the last. You could maybe throw Drummond in there now.
If Burke is coming up, it has to 100% be Ramon. At this stage he is little more than a Veteran voice at practice, which is fine, but with Jack already in the frame he is a bit redundant. There is a team out there that would have a better need for him than us.
Is Ice Cube’s Big3 League still in existence?
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0742146998710310076-4
Begley says that the team will probably waive Sessions if it can’t make a trade to clear a roster spot, and that Burke would rather sign with us than other teams showing interest in him.
Ha ha AI bailed, so there is at least 1 team that needs an old PG.
okay, i officially have the patience of a mayfly…
i’ll go ahead and recuse myself from any future gm considerations…
still, if your reading this scott perry: DO SOMETHING MAN – JUST DO SOMETHING!!!
@alsep73 – Begley is a douchebag.
Why is it that everyone we sign with serious $$$ is doomed to get injured immediately. Surprised Timmy lasted as long as he did.
More importantly, Dolan needs to hire a blonde bimbo’s chaser after 11:00 PM from KP’s apartment. It takes real stamina to ball out all night and day – these euros are….
Other than wishcasting? Really…. what metric or even eye test can you point to. His high usage with stunning inefficiency? Or maybe his stellar disdain for defense.
I believe it is the siiiiiicccccckkkkk dunks per 36 metric.
About time they sign Burke. To me it has nothing to do with him being really good or not, he’ll probably come up and not have much of an impact on the Knicks. But he’s a type of player the Knicks should be signing and giving a chance too. 25yo, a former Top 10 pick a few years ago who had pretty good numbers in college which warranted that status and someone who after struggling in the NBA has gone to the G-League and put up awesome numbers there. Those are the type of players the Knicks should be taking chances on, not guys like Sessions and Jack.
I get signing a vet point, but it was signing two of them that was so pointless.
I’m about as excited about signing Burke as I was about signing Beasley: worst case scenario he sucks, never plays and is useless, best case scenario he plays decently enough to bring meaningless wins and then bails out.
But well, he is 25 and might have some promise, so why the hell not? As much as I never liked him as a prospect anyway, trading minutes from Jack to any 25 year old is already an improvement, so let’s do it. Cutting Sessions is a good cherry on top.
However, if Jack keeps on starting and Burke cuts into Ntilikina’s minutes, I’ll be disappointed but not surprised because Knicks.
we’ve litigated this in the past… but guys like smith tend to have higher peaks and longer careers than guys like frank…. the markers that stick out are 2p fg% and usage… about a month ago you could also include ftr in there but smith has gotten too 3 happy lately but i imagine he’ll have a higher ftr by the end of the season by a fair margin also….
the point in frank’s favor is his steals rate… ppl were pointing to his amazing assist / to ratio before but predictably that has normalized….
so you’re essentially betting whether smith gets more efficient and his defense improves vs frank’s offense improving…. and historically you always want to be betting on the former than someone like frank learning to a)drive more and b)finish better….
feel free to disagree but there’s hordes of data on bref that will prove that it isn’t just wishcasting….
if you want an eye test example…. there was a play last night that smith was able to take a steal and then finish in transition over a defender and made it look easy…
how many times have frank pulled those back or simply flailed around in that situation? most nba guards should be able to take advantage there… frank can’t… that’s kind of a basic… but also very difficult skill…. which i’m sure he’ll be able to eventually but while he has to work on that… smith is working on much easier refinements to his game….
They needed someone to start until Frank was ready.
I suspect the thinking was that both Sessions and Jack were old and coming off serious injuries. If they only had one of them and he broke down they would be screwed. Now that we are further into the season and Frank is developing fine, if Jack went down Frank could take over the starting spot and Jack could continue mentoring. Burke is an upgrade over Sessions and could take over the backup role.
I think Burke’s three years he has on Beasley is significant, which would make this signing more of a “possibly good for the future” move. Burke will probably suck, too, don’t get me wrong, but there’s at least a chance that he could be good and if he is, it could be good for the future of the team.
I’m not sure it was pointless to sign two of them. We got a chance to really compare the two and decide which one to keep. If we cut Sessions now we are on the hook for a half year of league minimum salary, which is not anything to worry about.
I’m glad that they’re going to sing Burke, but if they do, surely they intend to play him? Is Jack going to see his minutes cut back, b/c Frank needs to continue to get his 20+ per night, and that should slowly increase to 30, I’d think.
Depending on how practice goes, you could always give Burke a little of Jack’s minutes just to see if he looks better than him. If he does, then he takes Jack’s spot in the rotation and you have to decide whether Frank is ready to start or will play behind Burke for awhile.
My guess is that the Knicks do sign Burke, Frank minutes won’t drop too much but he could see more minutes at the 2 or possibly even the 3 once THJ comes back. Right now, Frank is a crappy point guard- his ws/48, BPM, and VORP are all negative. Frank needs to play at least 12-15 minutes a night just for developmental purposes but he hasn’t earned huge minutes for team that’s actually trying to win now- he only deserves 25-30 minutes a night because the Knicks other points are even worse. Look, I’d rather trade everyone who’s not part of the team’s long-range plans for whatever assets the Knicks can get and make Burke and Frank the starting backcourt but I don’t see that happening.
Do we actually have consensus? Everyone says cut Sessions and bring up Burke? That might be a KB first…
The NYKs are at least 4-5 years behind in roster building, due to the repeated teardowns and cap space clearing. Each year you get 2 draft picks with which you have to restock the roster. The conventional wisdom used to be: add a rotation player each year or drop a rung. In 2015 they added 1 rotation player. In 16 I’ll count Willy as another. This year they added at least 2. This is the first year in a LONG time that they have not just dropped a rung, they made some marginal improvement. Every roster move can have 5 to 10 years of ramifications. And dont worry so much about timelines. Maybe someone like Beasly can carve oit a niche here as instant offense off the bench fir 5 years. And don’t worry so much about whether KP or Frank is going to be great just yet. Put them in the best position possible to excel. This is one reason I’m down on Horns. I don’t see development of players.
Well, Ntilikina is getting better, Beasley is playing better than we expected and seems to have improved from the beginning of the season, and O’quinn is better than he was before Hornacek. So I’m not sure its true that young players aren’t improving. Did you have someone in particular in mind who isn’t improving?
Ntilikina is not getting better, at least not by the numbers. His 4 games worth of January stats are his worst yet. I say we cut Sessions, bring up Burke, and send Frank to Westchester for a couple of games to play 40 MPG at PG. Have him drive hard to the hoop off of PnRs 20 times a game.
Or just keep him up here and let him continue to be a terrible offensive PG.
I think there have been numerous threads on the subject of Frank in the G-League already, but I personally would prefer to see him stick in his role now before doing that. If it were a case he wasn’t getting playing time, then yeah you would probably do it.
I am not so sure Frank isn’t improving. Obviously the numbers paint a pretty big picture, but you can definitely see him adjusting to the speed of the game and attacking more (if only he would stop pulling out of drives and resetting the offense!!!). Baby steps so far maybe.
when you think it sucks being us, think about this….
If the Nets knew Spencer Dinwiddie was good, they would not have traded for Russell, they would not have Mosgov’s contract, they would have Kyle Kuzma, and Lopez’s expiring deal.
Frank has looked more aggressive and has attacked the rim a few times. But he is not improving statistically. I don’t really care that much whether we send him down or not. His D is fun to watch. He’s also a great kid. But he’s as bad as it gets as an offensive PGs right now.
Frank is not a legit starting PG at this point, but he’s obviously getting a lot better. It’s not even a conversation. 4 games worth of shots in January on his volume is just noise.
He’s better now defensively than he was at the beginning of the season (and he was already pretty good).
He’s shooting 3s better.
He’s rebounding better.
He’s being a little more consistent in his play making.
Everyone knows he’s got to work on his handle, quickness, aggressiveness and shot. That’s a long term thing. I wouldn’t change a thing about how they are developing him other than possible starting him in a month or so if he keeps developing.
I’m generally fine with Hornacek, but I was disappointed to see he had Jack out there instead of Frank on the final defensive possession that led to the open (missed) Barea 3.
The thing is that rookies very rarely show decisive improvement month to month or even week to week. There’s the guys who come out and are instantly impactful, which are generally either the stars or the guaranteed good players (or the occasional weird bust), and the rest of them really only show improvement in their second year to third year.
Frank is in the second category, meaning he could be a very good player or a bust still, we have no way to imply through stats either way still, were pretty much left with the eye test.
I see him being more aggressive, which is good (specially since the coaching staff reportedly has told him they want more aggressiveness and he’s responding, which is a good sign) and his defense is pretty much there already, just need to mop up the rookie mistakes… overall I’m happy with where he is because the shooting form is good (which should, probably, mean he can improve more easily on his shooting) and he has shown he can pass and rebound, albeit not consistently, but very few 19 year olds in the NBA are consistent at anything.
He hasn’t deserved a starting spot in the NBA in a vacuum, but in the Knicks specific case Jack is 34, has a .474 ts% and can’t defend anyone at all. I would much, much rather have Frank playing more minutes than him to give him the experience and the possibility to build some chemistry with Porzingis and Kanter.
This says KP’s rim protection is the best in the NBA. Opponent FG% against him near the rim (<6ft) is 47% vs. average of 62%. That's worth almost 2 points per game. This also cannot account for shots that other teams don't even attempt because he is in the area.
http://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-lt6/?CF=GP*G*30:FGA_LT_06*G*3&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PLUSMINUS&dir=-1
How much of that does he give back by being really, really bad at getting out on three point shooters? If he can rebound well enough to play the five (or get paired with a rebounder who can defend the perimeter better than he can) that rim defense will pay huge dividends- until then it comes with a cost.
I generally agree with the point, but it’s a leap to suggest that Kuzma would be the pick there, no?
I think we’re past the point where we have to worry about Frank being a bust. At the very least, he’s a legit NBA rotation player in a limited offensive role. And his shooting is good enough to become at worst a 3 and D guy. But as a PG, he needs massive improvement in areas where it is very tough to improve…handle, burst, finishing. He can have a high assist game here and there playing the way he does, but that doesn’t make him a legit PG.
The Knicks need to make a decision in the next 2 weeks or so, at least by the deadline, as to whether they are going to develop him in a win-now framework (keep him on the bench, maybe send him down to G-League for reps at PG, etc.) or a “play him regardless on how it impacts wins (increase his minutes, maybe start him, have him finish all close games.)
@66. Knickfan. KP. All due respect, don’t you think at this point he could execute a PNR properly? Or have improved his footwork, just one of the keys to rebounding and defense? Or have developed some sort of post game? And that could be the high post where a player like Noah could be a valuable tutor? Or just his passing and rebounding in general? And what about WHG? How could he not show any improvement iver last year?
@66. Knickfan. KP. All due respect, don’t you think at this point he could execute a PNR properly? Or have imprived his footwork, just ine if the keys to rebounding and defense? Or have developed some sort of post game? And that could be the high post where a player like Noah could be a valuable tutor? Or just his passing and rebounding in general? And what about WHG? How could he not show any improvement iver last year?
In general, the NYKs offensive sets, nd defensive sets for that matter, are so unimaginative and repetitive. Move KP,around for a change in look. That s on Horns
Sir Robin,
I don’t expect Ntilikina to deliver new footwork during the season. no one does that. It is the sort of thing you work on in the summer. I’m not sure he needs better footwork anyway, his rebounding (for a guard) is already pretty good and his defense is excellent. I agree with what other posters have said, they think he’s improved in a number of areas. Hernangomez is a different case. It’s hard to tell if he’s improving because he isn’t getting much playing time. That could be because he hasn’t imporoved or it just could be he hasn’t improved enough, and other players have improved more, particularly O’Quinn, who is actually second in the NBA to Porzingis in paint defense, per the recently posted list.
@81. Knickfan. Sorry if I wasn’t clear but my posts referred to KP, NOT Ntilikina.
That makes more sense