2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat

The Knicks travel to Miami to see if they can win two games from the Heat on the Heat’s home court. The Knicks kicked the Heat’s ass in their last meeting in Miami, which saw the Heat play without Hassan Whiteside, but the Knicks also played without Kristaps Porzingis for most of that game.

So this, really, will be sort of a new look for both teams.

It will be interesting to see who the Heat use on Porzingis defensively. Obviously, Kelly Olynyk will start on him, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Heat try to use James Johnson on Porzingis a bit. If that happens, Porzingis simply has to use his size over Johnson and not let Johnson push him around.

Speaking of “pushing around,” let’s hope that Goran Dragic sees a steady diet of Frank Ntilikina tonight and not Jarrett “I can’t defend” Jack.

Let’s go, Knicks!

128 replies on “2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat”

I think I hate the Heat even more than Boston, so even tanker me wouldn’t mind a win.

The THJ injury really hurt this team. Besides the terrible management when there’s been a glimmer of hope Knicks have had some untimely injuries. With such a slim margin for error that can be a killer.

It’s amazing that Horny doesn’t realize that KP shouldn’t play 10-12 mins in a row

Is it MAYBE time to think that KP isn’t as good as everyone wants him to be and really think about giving B Easy a shot at being the 1st option on offense? The 30 point game streak is a distant memory…

Ellington killing the Knicks, Phil traded for him but didn’t keep him cause he was just a 3pt shooter.

Jarret Jack is giving back everything and more that he got us at the start. So weird Hornacek thinks he helps at this point.

Considering Frank and Jack are both 0 for 3 so far they’re probably better off if they didn’t shoot.

@14 ha ha fair enough. Still though, if you have the open within the offence look why not take it?

It’s incredible in today’s NBA how awful the Knicks are at dribbling and passing. The Heat are deflecting balls left and right leading to a bunch of turnovers.

I kinda hate KP now. Wtf was that last flying spin bs from the top of the arc? He looks like a fool trying to imitate Melo.

Maybe Horny WANTS to be fired? Why else would you play Jack AND Thomas together that much?

Did you guys not read the morning thread? The stealth tank is in. Soon to become a soft tank (trade the vets, play the kids), I hope.

We’re getting killed by Tyler Johnson and Wayne Ellington,
nobody shoot from 3, our “tired star” has 4 points and 1 board.
There’s no need to tank, this team is awful enough to lose by himself.

Looking back at the reactions at the time of the signing is incredible to believe but we really miss THJ.
I hope these are Jack’s last games, at least Burke isn’t afraid to shoot…

I decided it’s that time of the season to truly appreciate the awfulness that Lance, Jack etc bring to the table, so I’m at peace with this horrible game. I can see the tank at the end of the tunnel.

Seeing Porzingis get sonned by KELLY OLYNYK of all people is truly demoralizing

Dolan is at the game sitting with Perry and Mills, would love to hear those conversations.

That Whiteside offensive rebound over KP was a great example of the difference between a natural rebounder and a tall guy. Not sure if it’s really possible to improve rebounding instincts but if it is Porzingis needs to at least try.

Think I’ll have another cigarette
And curse Kristaps Porzingis
He was such a stupid get.

Trying to “turn KP into the #1 option” is everything that’s wrong w the Knicks concept of team development. He’s so tired from trying to score it makes the rest of his game worse.

jack gives up way more points then he helps create…at least frank helps on defense…

wonder if kanter will get back on the court this game…

mcbuckets is a frustrating guy to watch – looks like he should be able to drain 3’s all day…

Knicks had multiple chances to extend their 5 pt lead but took stupid shots then on D dropped a reb out of bounds then lost Ellington at the 3pt line. Going to go down to the wire now.

Jack back in the game down the stretch along with Frank?? Hornacek tanking this game down the stretch.

There is no logical explanation to bring Jack back in this game, none whatsoever. Less so to bring him back in to play along Frank, kills the spacing on offense.

Too bad the Knicks never trade for guys like Wayne Ellington….

And Jackson then traded one of the guys he got for Ellington for a second round draft pick so that he didn’t have to pay the guy $3 million for a year so that he could get a roster spot for Travis Wear.

They lose this game it’s entirely on Hornacek for his coaching down the stretch, it’s seriously a fireable offense.

The we have to get KP in the post offense is so iso Melo it’s insane. I truly blame Hornacek.

I kind of don’t blame KP. I think they are telling him to do this. I think this is the organizational strategy. “KP, you are the man now. Take lots of shots.” I truly think that.

LT just cane back into the game for defense but he replaced Frank and not Jack!?!? WTF???? Hope this changes after the timeout.

Sorry but this guy takes awful shots, doesnt reboUnd. He can’t take ANY contact without coming close to hitting the shot and or faking a foul. It’s horrendous. He should 100% not be our number one option. Not ever. He is borderline inept at playing basketball sometimes

Your totally right CG, they literally run plays for him to ISO from the elbow all the time.

Hornacek should be fired immediately after this game, this is beyond incomprehensible.

I just hate hate hate the fact that it’s so obvious that we need yet another coach. It just makes the organization continually appear so inept.

Forget the subs or rotations. We have too many empty trips from our star or our rookie (whose turnover timing is just terrible) and if Beasley isn’t scorching we’re not keeping pace cause our defense is decrepit

Why in the world would you not foul there before the pass? What a moronic decision. What a shot by Doug McD!

Hey look at that, maybe McDermott shouldn’t have been taken out for Jack earlier in the quarter.

Let’s take care of business all game for once. The players put themselves in these late game positions. And hornys just lassaiz faire

And maybe, just maybe this McDermott guy deserves minutes over a certain forward on this roster…

you try to root for the guys out there playing with your team’s jersey – but, what the heck is Jack’s purpose out on the court…

he can’t create, penetrate or defend – his passes aren’t all that sharp either…

ugh, it’s frustrating…and, when still have zero rebounding in the game…

I’m pretty sure Dragic wouldn’t have gotten that shot off over Frank like he did over Jack.

KP is still a great defender for all he “he’s just like Melo” people.

for the most part, hasn’t really felt like the ball has bounced much in our favor the last hour or so…

except for when beasley shoots, then things seem to go our way…

well, good for you mister jack…

It’s amazing the Knicks still don’t know what to do when KP is being fronted.

This game has to solidify the fact that Hornacek is the worst coach in the NBA.

I was trying to be optimistic but the fact that they have a coach who is coaching for selfish purposes rather than developing players is really hurting the team now.

This team is a fucking trainwreck and it’s only going to get worse when Porzingis is making $40M a year. If he keeps sucking, and they megamax him, I’m done, forever.

The problems with the team are more due to the roster than coaching imho, but if we’re trying to win this year they need to try some other options at PG

I’ll start hoping like I do every time it’s obvious the Knicks need a new coach that somehow JVG will return and save this pathetic franchise.

The team is basically where we thought we’d be before the season, no?

No one expected Kanter to be so valuable through the first 20 games, and most expected KP to take a leap. Instead, he took a leap into negative BPM territory for the first time in his career. So much for “development.”

Sorry, I rooted for them to win, but am fine with the loss. Team played hard, but not good enough. 2FOR18 is right: Jack = stealth tank.

It’s gotten to the point where I don’t understand hardly anything this coach and even worse this front office does anymore.

KP can be a great TEAM player. Maybe One the greatest because of his size and versatility. But he will never be the GUY. He hits some tough shots but it’s the good basketball team stuff that makes him even better. Until he can take some contact he’s gonna have to let the game come to him. He CANNOT be mega maxed. Please god… oddly enough we have two big guys who are better one on one matchups for us. Kanter and Beasley.

The team is basically where we thought we’d be before the season, no?

I don’t believe so. I think most of us predicted low 30s and they look like they’ll probably win high 30s, which is, more or less, the worst possible result for the season. So the Knicks are managing to once again pick the shittiest possible scenario for their season.

Well, we may indeed not need to tank, this team is terrible enough to do it on their own.

We should give KP some DNP-Tired for this road stretch, bring Burke and get Jack and Lance as far away as possible from the court.

Bringing doubles at Kanter whenever he touched the ball in the post. The Knicks propaganda is all porzingis but everyone knows you can guard him one on one with some toughness. It’s kanter they don’t want one on one

I really can’t understand how teams front Porzingis in the post and pretty much take him out of the offense. If I was an opposing coach, I wouldn’t even waste a big man on him, just put anyone in front of him and you’re all set.

I agree with DRed. All the early home games and surprising production from Kanter and, recently, Beasley created a false impression about this team. They’re not that good; it’s all just evening out, now.

It’s so easy to double KP cause he’s always out there with a couple of non-shooters.

nice shot of noah, kanter, and willy on the sidelines together…

I get it – kp has to be out there…but, when he’s not scoring, he can’t close out away from the basket, unable to rebound, pass out of the post, get to the post…

kanter and o’ quinn are more useful at the five…

ramon sessions really sucks, but, jack is a huge liability out on the court in late game situations…

Jack And Frank should never be on the floor at the same time- neither guy can penetrate or shoot worth a damn so all you get is iso’s with two extra defenders to help. And if KP continues to be pathetic on the boards you can’t play him at center. How many offensive rebounds did the Heat get down the stretch in the fourth? If there was ever a game that showed the necessity of signing Burke this was it- Jack passed up half a dozen open threes- several of which led to forced shots or turnovers. And Frank might be better than Jack given his defense but he’s even worse than Jack on offense- it’s pretty clear that if the Knicks want to have any shot at the playoffs (which they apparently do) they need better point guard play and they have the best point guard in the g-league ready to go in Westchester.

That’s a great point. Jack refuses to shoot threes and LT just isn’t any good. Also, Lee will only shoot a three if he is wide wide wide open.

Playing Jack and LT a lot IS TANKING. McD should start if they want to try to win.

I’m still cool with where KP is because the Knicks don’t really seem to have a competent offensive attack. There seem to be a lot of bad passers on the team, and that just hurts an offense no matter how good a player’s potential eFG% is. KP needs to be shooting 4 3PA a night and he needs to be getting more dunks. The mid range jumpers would be cool if KP made an effort to face up faster and keep the ball high so he can see the oncoming double team. Right now we’re a mess and KP is playing himself out of a max extension. I’m cool with all of this as long as we end up with a good player in June (and this draft has a boat load of talent).

I agree with DRed. All the early home games and surprising production from Kanter and, recently, Beasley created a false impression about this team. They’re not that good; it’s all just evening out, now.

Those wins count, though, and those banked wins will likely help push their win total into the high 30s.

The Knicks propaganda is all porzingis but everyone knows you can guard him one on one with some toughness.

It’s embarrassing as heck how small of a player can effectively guard him so long as they play him tough. I think they had Richardson effectively guarding him at one point!

Probably, but we’ll see. I just think the idea that the Knicks should be winning games like tonight is folly, esp. with Timmy out.

If they drop 6 or 7 under .500 and then sell off Lee, OQ, and Beasley…

They’re trying to force KP to be something he isn’t…Lee, McD, Beasley, Kanter and…other…need to finish games until KP can earn his way back into the finishing games…he’s just not that good right now…

Its almost as if the team is in denial. “Well he shouldn’t be getting tired like this.” Well he is! So adjust accordingly. I still think that there’s a close to 50/50 shot he wants out of here after next year.

The young guys on this team look like crud. We have Kristaps “Tall Melo” Porzingis, Frank “PG With No Handle” Ntilikina and Willy “DNP-CD” Hernangomez as our young core.

Bad times.

The Knicks have too many players that are utterly useless one side of the ball and some of those are mediocre or worse on the other side.


Most of the rest are mediocre on both sides.

As soon as Lance Thomas is on the court, there’s almost no way KP can get good shots.

If Frank is out there with one of the other non scorers, they can’t score.

If KP is not on the court, Kanter gets abused.

If jack is on the court, he going to get roasted by anyone that can score and not give enough on offense to make up for it.

It’s hard to put a lineup out there that doesn’t have huge holes in it. It’s at the point where I am starting to think a generally poor defender like Beasley may be our second best all around player while Hardaway is out. He’s almost unquestionably a better scorer than KP at this stage.

Depending on whether you are rooting for wins or losses, the good or bad news is that if Hardaway wasn’t out for so long and KP was just playing decent basketball (forget about franchise or all star level, just decent) the Knicks would be battling for the 4th seed right now. That’s how bad KP has been and how useless Lance Thomas is.

I cant’t even watch the games anymore. Porzingis is so bad it’s too depressing to watch. Any time he tries to rebound in traffic the other player will out jump, out muscle, or strip him of the ball. He’s useless on the boards unless he’s the only one under the basket and/or the ball comes right to him. He needs to be partners with someone like Shawn Marion that can space and rebound. Watching him ISO on offense makes me want to vomit. He’s so bad at times that I’d suggest benching him except we need his defense to cover for Kanter because he’s a train wreck on defense. They play hard, but they are really bad. I surrender. Time to tank.

Hate Phil or not, he was 100% right that KP was not ready to be the #1 option.

Just checked in the play-by-play:
our “first option” on offense take one shot in OT (he was fouled by Olynyk).

Again from the play-by-play, 38 seconds in the life of Knicks’ PG:
0:51 Jarrett Jack misses 9-foot jumper 103 – 103
0:29 Jarrett Jack bad pass (James Johnson steals) 103 – 103
0:25 Jarrett Jack shooting foul 103 – 103
0:13 Jarrett Jack misses 15-foot jumper 103 – 105

In a 53 minute game we tried 13 3PT they tried 42 (please Hornacek, look at the calendar, it’s 2018, if a player pass a clear shot bench him immediately).

The season has been better than expected before Timmy’s injury, they were even fun to watch, but is derailing quickly and the fucking Bulls are winning like crazy ruining our beloved second round pick.
I hate the concept of tanking (you play sports to win not to lose) luckily this team doesn’t need particular effort to lose a lot.

I’m a big fan of Porzingis but I see some worrying signs: he’s weak, small defenders that get physical outplay him much too often (and he’s not protected by the refs), he’s a woeful rebounder, he’s injury prone and Super Beas could carry the offense way better then he do.
The terrible PG situation and the absence of reliable shooters on the perimeter don’t help him, so for now I give him a pass (let’s see when Timmy comes back and Burke comes up)

Random thoughts:
– I ask this every time but I can’t help myself, WTF is Ron Baker doing for 4 millions?
– How could a real coach start LT in the NBA?
– Please someone put Frankie in the Drazen Petrovic’s workout regimen (1000 shots a day, 20 consecutive FT to go home)
– Super Beas has a role in the NBA, maybe even on a contender, offense aside his work on the board is undervalued.

Thanks to the OT and living in Italy I went to bed at 4:30 in the morning… I use to watch at least 2 games a week, but this is the last sleep I’ll lose for…

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