Knicks Morning News (2017.10.07)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks drop second preseason game to Wizards, 104-100
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 9:23:45 PM)

    Enes Kanter and Tim Hardaway Jr. led the Knicks offense as they dropped their second preseason game to the Wizards, 104-100.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony back to ‘having fun again’ with Thunder
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 5:50:37 PM)

    Current Thunder and former Knicks SF Carmelo Anthony has quickly found a niche with his new team in Oklahoma City.

  • [SNY Knicks] Noah to make preseason debut Friday vs. Wizards
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 11:58:00 AM)

    Knicks center Joakim Noah will make his preseason deubt Friday when New York faces the Washington Wizards at Capital One Arena.

  • [NYPost] Enes Kanter takes over spotlight in Knicks preseason loss
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 5:33:38 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Kristaps Porzingis rested and rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina sat out with a bruised knee, but Knicks center Enes Kanter showed what he can do on the offensive end in making his first preseason start. Kanter piled up 14 points in 14:38 of the first half and finished with a team-leading 16, but…

  • [NYPost] Knicks GM: Fans will be OK with losing as long as team fights hard
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 4:13:51 PM)

    WASHINGTON — New Knicks general manager Scott Perry said he believes the team’s fans will be satisfied with any result this season if they witness a franchise “establishing a direction” and fighting every game. The new regime has centered the 2017-18 season on developing a young core and not focusing as much on a playoff…

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah bracing himself for grim, ‘rookie’ reality
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 10:13:07 AM)

    WASHINGTON — Knicks center Joakim Noah used the word “adversity’’ four times during a morning-shootaround interview Friday at Capital One Arena. That’s two less than the number of surgeries he’s had. With six NBA surgeries on his resume, Noah realizes he’s got a steep hill to climb to get significant playing time this season. Noah’s…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek admits Knicks are ready for their own ‘Process’
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 8:24:30 AM)

    WASHINGTON — Jeff Hornacek delved into “Trust The Process” mode at the Friday morning shootaround. Hornacek invoked the name of Sixers coach Brett Brown, the practitioner of the Sixers’ multi-year tank job, in trying to find the right balance this season. It’s the first time the Knicks coach overtly acknowledged there may not be a…

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks GM Scott Perry preaches patience in rebuilding plan
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 9:33:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Scott Perry never said the word rebuild, but it was implied as the general manager talked about his expectations for the Knicks this season. The key word was patience.

  • [NY Newsday] Joakim Noah out to prove himself after rough first season with Knicks
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 8:19:05 PM)

    WASHINGTON, D.C. — Players entering their 11th season aren’t usually excited about meaningless preseason games, but Joakim Noah was.

  • [ESPN] Source: New MSG suite tops out at $400K
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 1:48:32 PM)

    Source: New MSG suite tops out at $400K

  • [NYDN] For rebuilding Knicks, playing hard the priority over victories
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 10:31:29 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek acknowledged that he won’t sacrifice the rebuild ‘just to win some games.’

  • [NYDN] Noah trying to resuscitate career after 8 months on sidelines
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 10:30:49 PM)

    Six surgeries for Joakim Noah in his career. Six rehabs.

  • [NYDN] J.R. Smith explains his stance on the national anthem
    (Friday, October 06, 2017 12:48:20 PM)

    In a memo last week, NBA commissioner Adam Silver reminded teams that it is mandatory to stand during the national anthem.

  • 47 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.10.07)”

    Awfully sure of yourself…

    I’m just saying that, from his pedigree, his draft position, and what I’ve seen of his game, he has a chance to earn some minutes and be pretty good. Maybe even start. You’re saying he could end up losing out to un-drafted FA’s and going down to the minors. You’re going to get quoted a bit if you’re wrong.

    No, I’m not sure of myself at all. I’m just responding to those who seem sure that Frank will start and play 20+mpg. I think that we need more evidence before guessing how many minutes he will play. I have not yet been impressed by either the eye test or his stats. That might change in the next few games. Why is it so disturbing to some for me to say that?

    On the other hand, I’ve been very impressed with Dotson. Granted, he’s much older and therefore less exciting of a prospect. But I like the way he plays on both ends.

    Other observations:
    I really have been impressed by McBuckets. He’s not as bad defensively as I thought.
    I really dislike Beasley’s game. He’s not as dumb as Bargs, but definitely a low-IQ player. Maybe something like Al Harrington? At least we aren’t paying him anything above the minimum.
    Noah looked pretty good, seems healthy and moving well for an older guy. Good for him!
    Kanter is an absolute beast in the low post. Yes, he’s a terrible defender, but as a 6th man on a playoff team he has to have some value before the trade deadline. Even if we keep him for 2 years, he will be fun to watch.
    Hardaway’s D also doesn’t look terrible. He looks much quicker and more active in the passing lanes. The stroke looks pure, with a beautiful quick release.

    Why is it so disturbing to some for me to say that?

    Until this, your statement is measured and no one could take issue with it. It’s just that it’s premature to talk about G-league or Kay Felder. Your prognostications come off as overly pessimistic. That’s why you’re getting a bit of push back. A reading of your comments seems to be that you assume he’s going to fail.

    A lot of good players have been drafted around #8. I get that it’s unfair to expect much of a 19 year old but he got in, kept his dribble, made nice drop off passes in the pick and roll, and showed good form on his jump shot. Management and teammates have been impressed. There’s no evidence to suggest that he’ll struggle or bust. In short, he looks like a nice young player. No one knows for sure and no one’s saying for sure. Training camp is where you look at upside. If he starts, shoots 25% from the field, with more TO’s than assists, and we go 3-17, I won’t be ashamed about having been wrong, but there’s no reason to assume that yet.

    But I don’t get why spending time in the G-League is considered a negative. It’s a way to get major minutes against very good competition (probably better than lots of teams he played against in Europe.) Lots of prominent rookies have been sent down for a few games just for that reason. It is almost expected in baseball that even #1 picks will spend time in the minors, why is it such a disgrace in basketball?

    As to Felder, when did I imply that Felder would be a replacement for Ntilikina? I would want him no matter who was playing PG for us. He’s exactly the kind of promising young prospect we should be jumping on whenever one becomes available. If we can sign him and dump Jack, go for it. Frank has nothing to do with that.

    Non-Knicks observations:
    Jayson Tatum looks like an absolute stud.
    Langston with the 0-9 donut.
    Avery Bradley is gonna make a huge difference for the Pistons, who I think will make the playoffs this year, largely due to his influence. I think the Celts will really miss him.

    Current management does not seem to be the least bit concerned with winning in the short term and the media seems to love them so far. There is literally no pressure on management or Hornacek to win now like Phil had trying to balance both rebuilding through the draft while appeasing Melo and dealing with a hostile media.

    Given that scenario, I think it’s very likely Frank is going to get plenty of minutes unless he is so bad he’s getting frustrated and demoralized. Since I don’t see that, I think it’s likely he gets plenty of minutes.

    If we were still motivated to make the playoffs, the media was calling for heads, and we had legitimate starting PGs ahead of him, it would be different. But given the current situation. he’s probably going to get 10-15 minutes early in the season and it will grow to 20 or more by the end if he’s playing well. The other possibility is that he’s ready right now to win the starting spot and gets 20+ minutes to start the season.

    (we’ll see how long the media remains friendly when/if the losses start really piling up)

    After Hornacek’s quote about not sacrificing what the Knicks are building for wins, it just would be nonsense not playing Ntilikina 15-20 minutes at least and giving him the chance to play with the starters.

    I agree with strato, unless he’s literally embarrassing himself in a demoralizing way on the court, he should get minutes by default. And from the little we’ve seen and heard from the coaching staff / other players, it seems a given that he at the very least can stay on the court. He doesn’t need to look good to earn minutes, he just has to show up and be healthy and not completely incapable.

    I agree that Hornacek’s and Perry’s quotes makes it likely that Frank will play more rather than less. That’s probably the most refreshing news we’ve heard out of Knicks management since before the Ewing trade. It confirms that even if they make mistakes during the process, we are in full rebuild mode.

    Frank should get minutes if he’s playably bad. We should not prioritize winning. Let him get 15-20 minutes at PG and see how he does. If he’s terrible try playing him in combo guard sets with Baker. If he sucks at that too send him to the G league.

    Frank is going to get 28 plus minutes because he is the best 2 way point guard on the roster by far and he should be getting the time to develop.

    Frank Ntilikina is going to lead the Knicks in assists per game. He has a very cautious approach to the game of basketball and he’s going to warm himself out of it as he gets more explosive and comfortable with his handle. Frank’s build isn’t too far off from Dwyane Wade (D Wade is 6’4” with a 6’10” wingspan and he never really had a problem dribbling the basketball) so I’m comfortable assuming his length won’t be an issue. I actually think it would benefit Frank to study Dwyane Wade. When he came into the league he was The Flash but he came into the league after 3 years of college where he was able to work on his body, his game, and his athleticism. D Wade was never a great leaper (his famous dunk on Varejao was more about strength than leaping ability) but his agility was unmatched. I think Frank could learn a lot from Dwayne Wade, who would be a point guard if he were drafted today.

    @11 what the f are you talking about?! Did you even bother to go back and look at Wade’s draft profile before assuming that Wade wasn’t a great leaper when he was drafted?

    Strengths: He has extraordinary leaping ability and excellent quickness for a guard his size.

    Comparing Frank to Wade is laughable. Who are you gonna compare him to next, Kobe Bryant? Michael Jordan?

    I like our PG’s. I’ve seen Jack have great games against us. Unless he’s really dropped off I think he can be good. He shoots, he dribbles, he penetrates, he finishes. He’s been a legit NBA PG and is exactly the *type* of player we should have as a failsafe and a mentor to Frank. Sessions probably Ditto though I haven’t seen as much of him.

    I think now is a moment to winnow our roster down and not to be inviting other bodies in. Camp has begun and we don’t need guys behind the learning curve. That smacks of a chaotic slap dash approach which hopefully is in the rear view mirror. Maybe someone is waived who’s perfect. Otherwise, I think we have our future PG and plenty of support so he doesn’t need to be forced into bad situations.

    The rest of camp should be about seeing Baker’s progression, getting FN and KP6 minutes together, figuring out our center rotation, figuring out our 3 spot rotation (We haven’t seen Kuz play yet), and learning defensive schemes.

    We need to figure out who’s playing and get them to digest a system and avoid the open threes and layups of the past. A big change this year is having the opportunity to practice and come out cohesive. Last year our idiot lead guard was busy with his rape trial, as I recall.

    Other notes:
    Is Randle in camp?
    How about Noah’s block of Jason Smith’s 3? He looks ready for action.

    This is prime Dwyane Wade in 2009. He wasn’t an amazing leaper, bro. He used his agility, pick and rolls, and craftiness with his handle and euro steps to get anywhere on the floor with ease. This would be an informative study for Frank.

    One issue with rotations and minutes will be time for guys like Frank, Dotson, and Willy vs. the old guard of guys like Lee, LT, OQ, and Kanter. And maybe Beasley, but if he’s playing a lot, something has gone wrong with the rebuild.

    Those guys will need enough minutes early in the season to put or keep them on other teams’ radars for possible trades. I wonder if the Knicks have engaged OQ about an extension? If not, he’s going to opt out after the season, and so they should look to deal him.

    Sessions has looked okay enough as a mentoring PG. Jack has more of a scorer’s mentality.

    I too have problems with Beasley. He does put up some stats, esp. rebounding numbers, but I think he gets those partly by sagging back so much on D and just kind of floating around much of the time that he can snag those rebounds. He also sort of glared and barked at other Knicks a couple of times that I saw (Sessions and THJ) after a bad D sequence. Reminded me a bit of Rose last year, and not in a good way.

    I think much more than Wade, Harden would be the ideal template for Ntilikina to follow. More crafty athletic than a speed demon, never was a big leaper or the strongest dude on the court.

    I’m not saying he’ll be Harden, ofc, just that I think he could learn a lot by trying to succeed on offense the same way Harden managed to. If he can be eventually a 38-40% shooter from 3, he’ll force people to guard him closely and the court will be a lot more open even if he never shows the ability to drive past people in isolation.

    I too have problems with Beasley… Reminded me a bit of Rose last year, and not in a good way.

    Next: Look for Dolan to complete the 2008 draft trifecta by signing O.J. Mayo once he’s eligible for reinstatement in 2018.

    I don’t get the comparisons to Harden or Wade. If it were that easy to model one’s game after those guys, everyone would do it. Harden is an offensive all-time great. Wade is one of the best 5 2-way shooting guards of all time. The are those things precisely because they do things that very few people can do.

    If you want to pick guys that Ntilikina should model his game after, pick guys that have a similar physical profile and skillset. I think a great comparison would be someone like Nate NcMillan. Maybe Terry Porter.

    Ntilikina is nothing like Wade or Harden and never will be.

    Re: Harden, it’s not that he shoots 38-40% on 3’s, its that he does it with defenses totally skewed to stop him, being guarded every game by the opposing team’s best defensive guard, off the dribble or catch-and-shoot, every which way possible. Very few players ever can do what he does. Lots of guys can shoot 38% on 3’s when open. We actually have one of them, a guy named Courtney Lee. Shoot, why didn’t Courtney Lee model his game after Harden, or Wade or Jordan? Maybe Shumpert should have tried it. Maybe all Mudiay has to do is model his game after Magic Johnson.

    Gary Payton. That’s who Ntilikina should be modeling his game after.

    Payton was 6’4″, very tall for a PG in his day. Obviously he was an elite defensive PG and a very effective player despite lacking eye-popping athleticism.

    I recall The Glove having great speed and being more like 6’3″. Ferocious, even dirty. The quintessential in-your-jock defender, and a world-class trash talker.

    If you would re-read my post you would see I said “it would benefit Frank to study Dwyane Wade.” I didn’t say he should model his game after him. I suggested there are benefits to studying another long armed two way guard who could handle the ball. He could definitely learn from Wade’s tape considering how adept Dwyane Wade is/was at attacking off the P&R.

    @24 ok I guess. He should study lots of guys. He seems like an intelligent, focused, hard-working kid. At the end of the day, it will come down to: how often does the ball go in when he shoots it? What makes Wade so special is that he’s one of the great finishers the game has ever seen. That’s something that can’t be learned. Same with comparing KP to Dirk. He can learn all of Dirk’s moves, but if he doesn’t score efficiently on those moves, he’ll top out as a good but not great player.

    We need to see a lot more of Frank against the better NBA backcourt players, wing defenders and rim protectors before determining whether he’s a 1, 2 or 3 at the NBA level. Is he multipositional or a tweener? Can’t tell yet.

    Just from watching preseason I think it’s pretty clear Kanter should be part of our long term plans. He is still young and is truly dominant scoring the basketball. Add average passing, above average defensive rebounding and elite offensive rebounding and he’s already a net positive even with defense that is in the bottom 10% of the NBA. If he can improve even a little on that end he could be a major piece moving forward.

    As for Frank I don’t see any Wade in his game. He’s not a slasher at all but he looks better than I expected, and seems like a true PG.

    As for rotation:

    Sessions – Frank
    Hardaway – Dotson
    Lee – McDormott
    KP – Beasley
    Kanter – Willy

    Kanter should start because KP helps cover him defensively but Willy should play at least as many minutes.

    We haven’t seen Baker and Kuz yet so maybe (hopefully) if they’ve improved they could replace Sessions and Beasley in the rotation.

    O’Quinn and Thomas should be the odd men out and we should trade O’Quinn for an asset, even just a good 2nd rounder and keep Thomas as insurance.

    Noah should not be in the rotation and we should start buyout talks. If he’s healthy he deserves to be somewhere where he could help a team rather than just getting in the way of us developing our young players, if he’s not healthy why sacrifice a roster spot.

    Cut – Jack, Rathan-Mayes, and Hayes. Keep Kornet on the g-league 2 way contract.

    BTW that’s why I thing a couple of 3-4 game stints in the G-league would serve him well. There’s no pressure to play anyone else but him, and he can work on anything he wants until he gets good at it. Then come back up and try it against NBA players.

    Yes, a young point guard should study Chris Paul. That’s logical.

    Does Dotson seem more like a poor man’s Kevin Martin or a rich man’s Mardy Collins?

    I used Harden as a study case because he is a guy who has managed to succeed despite not being an elite athlete in the traditional sense, that’s all.

    Like I pointed out, he’s not Harden and won’t ever be, just that he could benefit from studying the way Harden has turned himself into a transcendent offensive star. It’s not very useful for a guy like him to study let’s say, John Wall, because everything he does is possible because of his crazy athleticism.

    Never compared him to Harden.

    But I guess you already know he won’t succeed and will have to train in the G-League, so yeah, let him study Mudiay or whatever.

    he’s not Harden and won’t ever be

    These kind of statements sort of lose me. How do you know for sure? I mean, you have a better chance of being right than wrong just because most people don’t end up being as good as that but what have you seen that makes you so sure?

    I’ve been watching basketball my whole life and I wait until someone has graduated at least to his second preseason game before I know enough to make categorical statements.

    Not taking issue with you per se, Bruno. You’re a good writer and I respect your posts. It’s just I read so many posts here with sentences like that.

    When there’s ample statistical evidence to back it up I’ve learned to roll with it. Still, I think GM’s are going to roll the dice and hope for anomalies, players who outperform their bubble gum card, so sometimes I even take that with a grain of salt.

    I think that’s why Z-Man’s take on Frank is getting so much pushback. I don’t think looking at upside is the same as assuming he’ll struggle, at this point. It’s all conjecture, yes, but you’re looking at size, speed, skill set, and success at lower levels, all which seem to point upwards in FN’s case. There’s no evidence to suggest he’ll never be anything. There is evidence to suggest he could be something.

    Assuming someone won’t be in Springfield is a safe bet, but let’s not be so quick to laugh off comparisons to other players and less cock sure that we have it all figured out every time.

    By the way, John Wall blew by everyone trying to guard him like they were standing still the other night. I’m looking forward to seeing FN try to slow someone like that down. (And to see a big man rotate to the rim!)

    Wow, I was enjoying your comment and then you ended on such an unnecessarily douchey note. But it figures, God forbid anyone criticize your precious idol. Man, are you thin-skinned!

    RIP – Connie Hawkins
    The Hawk – Dr. J before Dr. J. Too bad they didn’t have Sports Center back in the day, those would be some entertaining clips

    Frank Ntilikina is going to lead the Knicks in assists per game.

    what’s the modern record for fewest assists per game to lead a team? we’ve assembled a formidable attempt.

    So we should wait a couple of years before we conjecture that Luke Kennard won’t be Larry Bird? Or that De’Aaron Fox won’t be Magic Johnson?

    I would say that the odds of Frank Ntilikina having anything close to the career as James Harden is at least 100-1. He doesn’t resemble Harden in any way at this point, nor was he hyped for the same things coming into the league. But your sensibilities seem to be offended by that statement. Well, we’re both on the record, and 3-4 years from now it’ll be fun to look back at these conversations.

    Connie Hawkins was awesome. Too bad he is overlooked by history. He was truly an all-time great talent. I had the privilege of seeing him play on TV back in the day. He was sensational.

    My sensibilities aren’t offended! Not at all. Was @34 about something I said?

    I was just addressing the tone of some comments where people seem convinced of something to the point where they state it as a fact. I think the odds of FN being equivalent in value to James Harden are a lot greater that 100-1. I just think, if the Knicks are going to win, one of those types of long shots will have to happen. Like Kawhi Leonard being picked at 15 or Isiah Thomas as a 2nd rounder. Or more modestly like KP being better than expected. Unexpected things happen on all winning teams. Spurs Ginobli and Parker. Klay Thompson at 11. Dray at 35.

    You’re convinced that Frank will be marginal unless you see differently. That’s a logical stance. No offense taken. Sorry to seem like there was. I just think there’s more upside than others do sometimes and I think people often act more sure of themselves than necessary when discussing human potential. Even when there is statistical evidence in their favor.

    Good response, dan. As I said, we’ll learn a lot more in the next couple of weeks.

    I think what you’d hope for isn’t Nate McMillan, but a Nate McMillanish player who could shoot 3s.

    Yeah, McMillan is a decent comp but McMillian was more of a defense-first player who wasn’t much of an offensive threat. The Frank Ntilikina of my dreams is a two-way player.

    @45&@46 yes, agreed. Although at the time he was an above avg 3-pt shooter. His stats changed over his career, prob to accommodate Payton.

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