Knicks Morning News (2017.08.27)

  • [SNY Knicks] Isiah Thomas believes Phil Jackson’s legacy isn’t tarnished by New York blunder
    (Saturday, August 26, 2017 10:00:02 AM)

    Fomer Knicks president and coach, Isiah Thomas, doesn’t believe former Knicks president Phil Jackson’s legacy has been hurt due to his inability to win in New York.

  • 26 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.27)”

    The Cavs will hopefully milk the Celts for another asset in this trade or rescind it. Imagine if the trade is voided and then Isaiah needs surgery. They would be totally fucked for the upcoming season.

    If the Cavs do wind up with another asset, that makes a Melo to Cavs deal more possible, right?

    Cavs are just destroying Boston in this thing. Now they’re applying pressure to get even more after the trade has been announced. They may get another player or a first rounder. Just wow. It’s like the Mozgov throw in. This really is reminiscent of the Melodrama. BOS is so hot and bothered to get their man that they’re willing to do almost anything at this point.

    Neither side wants to pull back now that this has been publicized. Maybe CLE gets a 2nd rounder and calls it a day. Anything more would be just shocking assuming IT makes a full recovery.

    Kyrie is not worth it but as a Knick fan I’m thrilled that BOS will give up all these assets for a me first, all offense, no defense chucker.

    To me the BKLYN picks are the most valuable asset in the sport. You can be as good as you want and you’re still practically guaranteed a legit shot at #1 overall. Why didn’t Ainge just take Fultz or Ball if he wanted to move on from IT? Those guys have more upside than Kyrie and are cost controlled for more years. Plus you still have Thomas, Crowder, and other picks as viable trade assets.

    Tatum looks like another flawed mid range shooting 3. They passed on Josh Jackson. So, the ’17 pick became the 4th rated player in the draft and the ’18 now belongs to CLE. Mind boggling. If this was the Knicks they’d be getting pilloried in the press but Ainges rep has him insulated. This is filthy though and I love it.

    If the Cavs do wind up with another asset, that makes a Melo to Cavs deal more possible, right?

    I honestly don’t believe Melo is interested in playing in Cleveland for just a single season with Lebron. I think that’s why we haven’t heard any recent “Melo is considering the Cavs” stuff. The only reason he would go there is to play with Lebron and Lebron is leaving after this year (which is why the future assets in the Kyrie deal are so huge for Cleveland). Melo likely does not want to opt out of his contract (since he will make more money under his current contract than he would on the open market) and he does not want to spend a year in Cleveland without Lebron.

    But Melo could play it by ear…opt in if either LeBron stays or he gets seriously injured or opt out and risk a bit of money (probably not much) for a chance to play on a contender (he can probably still get a 3-year at 12-15 mill per year, assuming reasonable health) or risk a lot of money to play for Houston or follow LeBron around. If Cleveland doesn’t have to give up the Nets #1 to make the deal palatable to the Knicks, I would guess that he would at least consider playing with LeBron whether LBJ decides to leave or not..

    Memo and LeBron are good friends. It’s impossible Melo made this decision without them talking

    The thing is Melo’s camp is probably watching what’s happening with Wade now. No real contender wanted him last off-season (or had space to accommodate what he wanted), he went to the Bulls, failed there, and now he’s opting in because he would never get the same money in the open market. Now, of course Wade would rather opt in and then be bought out, but that’s in Chicago’s hands now.

    If Melo opts out he and his camp have to know it’s extremely unlikely he gets a big deal from a team with hopes to contend, so he’d have to either settle for a fringe contender with space or take a huge pay cut, so of course he would rather go to a contender now (and then opt in) or stay in N.Y., opt in and then look for a buyout or a trade.

    Cleveland is a poor choice because he would get one chance at contending, and then either be stuck in a non contending team again or have to opt out losing tens of millions in the process. He’s already 33 and rapidly declining, even though he’s probably still a more productive player than Wade at this moment.

    I fully expect Melo to not budge from Houston or stay in N.Y. and then opt in either way.

    I fully expect Melo to not budge from Houston or stay in N.Y. and then opt in either way.

    I’m coming around to the same opinion on the second part of what you said. I think he’s opting in next year regardless of where he is. If he’s still a Knick, he’ll do what Wade’s doing by opting in and then immediately asking for a buyout. And we’ll probably give it to him.

    I do think that maaaaaybe he’ll budge from the “Houston or bust” trade request. If the front office says, “Look, we’re just not taking on 3 years of Ryan Anderson unless we’re getting back major assets, and we’re also not buying you out, so you can either expand your list or buckle in for 2 more years here,” he might cave. His career as a starter might be over in 2 years. If he’s honest with himself, he’ll realize he’s got to get out of here NOW and grudgingly accept a trade to Portland or the Lakers or someplace like that.

    Unfortunately Melo mostly cares about the money so I don’t think he’ll opt out. Our only chance of moving him is taking on Anderson’s contract and getting Qi, Hartenstein and a late first. I’d seriously consider it because we have no other options and its time to move on. Anderson isn’t a useless player.

    I think the front office needs to hold strong on the Melo front. Houston just doesn’t have the assets. If Melo expands his list of teams then great but if not you go into the season and give Hornacek the freedom to use Melo any way he see’s fit. If that’s as a starter or a sixth man so be it. Melo is still a useful player and I’m sure Hornacek can find useful ways to employ him. He’s not the focus anymore, and shouldn’t be, and if he accepts that role and stays that’s fine, if he complains or causes problems you deal with it the way you would with anyone else. I think if he doesn’t expand his list he will be a good soldier his rep cannot take him being a malcontent.

    But Melo could play it by ear…opt in if either LeBron stays or he gets seriously injured or opt out and risk a bit of money (probably not much) for a chance to play on a contender (he can probably still get a 3-year at 12-15 mill per year, assuming reasonable health) or risk a lot of money to play for Houston or follow LeBron around. If Cleveland doesn’t have to give up the Nets #1 to make the deal palatable to the Knicks, I would guess that he would at least consider playing with LeBron whether LBJ decides to leave or not..

    Like KnickfaninNJ noted, there’s no way that Lebron hasn’t let Melo in on what he’s thinking and thus Melo not expanding his list to Cleveland speaks volumes.

    Problem is, even if Melo is a “good soldier” and doesn’t complain, his style of play is just so detrimental to the idea of team basketball, and so detrimental to player development. If he’s on your team, he’s starting, and he’s jacking up a million shots, and he’s the center of gravity of everything. You can tell Ryan Anderson to just stand in the corner and shoot 3’s and he’ll do it. Your team isn’t going to be a bunch of guys standing around watching Ryan Anderson iso-ball for 20 possessions every game.

    I still don’t think it’s worth it taking on Anderson’s contract, because maybe another trade possibility opens up for Melo down the road. But if the Melo/Anderson + meager assets trade were to happen, I wouldn’t be too upset. It would at least represent a turning of the page.

    At this point the Knicks should wait until training camp starts. I expect Melo to report and hold still to his Rockets or nothing stance.

    Then the big decisions have to be made: who starts at PG (I expect Sessions but I wouldn’t be very surprised if Ntilikina shows good things and gets the nod), then what to do with Melo. If Frank shows something then a Melo trade should be sort of mandatory, as the team would be more or less committing to starting a very young unit. If not, there’s more time to wait until the deadline at least and see what happens.

    The Knicks stance should be to refuse to trade him to the Rockets for Anderson and hope he caves, if he does not, well, commit to the youngsters and see how he reacts.

    Another factor to consider is whether Anderson would be accepted in this town or will some fans, along with the press, make his life unbearable as the guy replacing our “superstar”

    KP and Willy are going to ball out this year and Melo will stay put. If you put out a starting 5 of Sessions, Frank/Lee, TH2, Melo, and KP you now have a unit that accommodates Melo and KP. There are enough low-mid usage guys that Melo’s high usage game doesn’t affect too much going on and KP officially becomes the primary dive man without compromising the spacing. I think that is what will happen coming out of training camp and it will make New York’s offense a top 12 or so unit. It pisses me off that the Knicks might have the best depth at center league wide and that we’d have to sit our rebounders down, but starting Melo at the 4 is the only way forward if Melo won’t take a trade to Cleveland.

    If Melo stays it is on Hornacek to insist on the team basketball that he wants. If Melo starts he will often need to stand in the corner and shoot threes. He will be the second or third option and will have to move the ball. If he can’t do that then instant offense off the bench is the role for him and if that’s a problem then keep diminishing his role until we find one that benefits the team. If he stays and still dominates the ball then that is on Hornacek and not Melo.

    Everyone, including Melo, wants him off this team and the Knicks did everything resonable to try and accommodate that. It is Melo that is the one who is not budging and that gives the team the leverage to call the shots. For the first time Melo has almost no pull and if he fails to fully buy in we can bench him, not play him or do whatever it takes to force the team first basketball that we want. If we fail to use that leverage it’s on us.

    If he stays I don’t think he’ll be a problem because he knows he’s the only one to blame for still being here and knows how sulking will play in the media.

    The thing about Melo is last last season he is a productive player and we embraces his team game. What happened last year? Just maybe Phil added some fuel. I insist that if there is no good deal, let Melo stay and waste another year. That year is more valuable to him than us,

    1) I just don’t think we can take Anderson. That’s the end of cap space for three years. There are some circumstances where I’d be fine with that – I don’t think we’re FA players the next couple of years anyway. But for that return? Even if there’s only a small chance Melo opts out, if he does then we can at least use the cap space to absorb bad deals with better assets next summer or failing that the summer after. The lakers will be giving assets away like candy next summer if they think they can get two max players to sign. Plus in the hypothetical Anderson deal the best case involves Qi and Hartenstein panning out and is having a Philly-style glut at the big positions.

    2) I think starting Melo over Willy would be unacceptable given the arc of this team.

    So basically, it’s a shitty situation. I’d go for making Melo 6th man, but I accept that would be a rough ride.

    Honestly, I really think Porzingis may be a tall PF rather than a center. I know the trend is to go small, but we have some good big guys and that is probably the strength of our team. So I see our roster more like this:

    C: WHG, Noah, KOQ
    PF: KP, Kuz, Beasley
    SF: Melo, Thomas, maybe Dotson
    SG: THJ, Lee, maybe Dotson
    PG: Baker, Ntilikina, Sessions

    Definitely a team with classic centers, rather than a small ball team. I was expecting to be discouraged by holes in our rotation; but honestly, it’s not as horrible as I expected. All the starters except point guard are probably close to league average or better. It’s weird for me to say it, but if our point guards come through, maybe we’re really better than last year.

    I should add that when I look at proposed Knicks rotation that assume KP as the center, they look a lot worse than this to me.

    I agree, something like this is our best rotation under the circumstances. I’d still bring Melo off the bench though to focus on KPs development. And I’d mix big-man lineups a bit depending on the opposition

    I think with KP the issue is he’s as 5 on defense and more of a 4 on O, albeit we’re yet to see him featured as a classic dive man. The best front court partner for him is probably someone who can stay out of the way on offense – good offensive rebounder and second chance scorer with a bit of range, but who can defend PFs on the perimeter. I wonder if Noel might actually be a good target now he’ll be unrestricted next year…

    Willy is a pretty good complement to KP on offense but not so much on D – it’s a shame to say it but long term I think he’s a back-up on a KP led team…

    I’ve been saying for a while now that Melo has to go. The reason for me isn’t that he’s a bad player, or too old for the preferable arc of the team. It’s because he causes a glut at positions that we have worthwhile developmental or role players at. Dig:

    1. Start him at PF and someone out of KOQ/Cheese/Lance/Beasley/Hayes(I like him for his Draymond-lite all around game and defensive versatility)/Kornet would be the odd few out because of the minutes Melo can play at the forward spots. I also think a 2nd team frontcourt of KOQ/Beasley/Lance would be really effective. Notice I haven’t mentioned Willy, as he may not fit on a bench unit with Beasley better than KOQ. That’s another problem because Willy is too good to sit.
    2. Start him at SF and Cheese is guaranteed to get no burn because Dotson and Lance can also play there and play better defense. That might not be so bad because I imagine Cheese can be used to sweeten the pot for a Melo to Houston trade to convince them to give us Ariza and a 1st to take back Anderson.
    3. Make him a 6th man combo forward and he completely usurps Beasley and Cheese. I like Beasley as a combo forward off the bench- in that role he is the perfect replacement for Melo which should give us the incentive to make a trade happen sooner than later.

    We have enough malleable youth to survive without Melo. Now is the perfect time to move him. Anderson shouldn’t be a deal breaker if we can get Ariza and a first in return. As good as Ariza is for that team, I think Tucker and Mbah a Moute makes him expendable within D’Antoni’s system as the can switch and defend positions 2-4.

    Comments are closed.