Knicks Morning News (2017.08.28)

38 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.28)”

Someone in the last thread said “everyone” wants Melo off this team, and that’s just not true. Players love the guy. They want him to stay, and he does have some skill. It’s just that skill is a black-hole style of post up skill.
Honestly, this team has minimized his skills since after Woodson left. If he’s gonna be here, you might as well use him correctly. Not having a proper pg since 50-year-old Kidd is just absurd.
I think with him at sf we actually match up well against the Celtics. In other instances, we could use him as a pf.
I’m not saying he’s my favorite player. I want him gone too. But if you have him, it’s not impossible to integrate him into the offense, at least to boost his trade value.

If one believes that having Melo for another 2 years would be worse for the team’s growth than the negative impact on growth of 3 years of RA, then you do the deal. No reason to pull the cord now on that deal. How Melo acts up to trade deadline at least provides some evidence of his impact.

Maybe this question is in poor taste, but does anyone think the flooding in Houston could make Melo reconsider whether he wants to hold firm on going there. Had the trade been completed earlier, right now his new house might be under water.

There’s about a dozen credible ways to go forward, but um… building around Melo is not one of them. Building a young core through development and trial/error is the way to go, not maximizing the talents of our 33 year old pseudostar.

I get what you’re saying, that you’re not necessarily talking about win-now. But if you’re talking playing Sessions over Frank, or signing a passable 29 yr old PG, no. No no no. Almost-win-now is just as bad.

I don’t mind much if Melo hangs around another year or two, but I’d rather trade him now if we could get a young asset or pick out of the deal than wait around and replace him with the extra cap space later. I just don’t want to move him enough to take back a longer bad contract. I’d rather keep him for 1-2 years than take on a bad contract for 3.

Cleveland is trying to extract one of Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum in the Kyrie Irving trade. If Melo wanted to go to Cleveland we could get some really good assets back. I’d take Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder, and the Cavs pick along with cap filler for Melo all day.

@6 – I mean, sure, me too – but there’s not a cat’s chance in hell they offer that… a recent number three pick, an exceptionally cheap two-way wing and a pick would be an enormous overpay for Melo and based on the Irving trade there’s just no evidence Cleveland would offer that…

Just wanna repost this from the last thread…I was up too early

I’ve been saying for a while now that Melo has to go. The reason for me isn’t that he’s a bad player, or too old for the preferable arc of the team. It’s because he causes a glut at positions that we have worthwhile developmental or role players at. Dig:

1. Start him at PF and someone out of KOQ/Cheese/Lance/Beasley/Hayes(I like him for his Draymond-lite all around game and defensive versatility)/Kornet would be the odd few out because of the minutes Melo can play at the forward spots. I also think a 2nd team frontcourt of KOQ/Beasley/Lance would be really effective. Notice I haven’t mentioned Willy, as he may not fit on a bench unit with Beasley better than KOQ. That’s another problem because Willy is too good to sit.
2. Start him at SF and Cheese is guaranteed to get no burn because Dotson and Lance can also play there and play better defense. That might not be so bad because I imagine Cheese can be used to sweeten the pot for a Melo to Houston trade to convince them to give us Ariza and a 1st to take back Anderson.
3. Make him a 6th man combo forward and he completely usurps Beasley and Cheese. I like Beasley as a combo forward off the bench- in that role he is the perfect replacement for Melo which should give us the incentive to make a trade happen sooner than later.

We have enough malleable youth to survive without Melo. Now is the perfect time to move him. Anderson shouldn’t be a deal breaker if we can get Ariza and a first in return. As good as Ariza is for that team, I think Tucker and Mbah a Moute makes him expendable within D’Antoni’s system as they can switch and defend positions 2-4.

Memo to Melo:
This just in, there’s no flooding in Cleveland right now – think about it

I am everyone, and everyone says Melo is bad at basketball, because he is.

Should the Knicks start Melo if they cannot deal him before the season? With all the trade rumor stories, his absence in preseason PR, etc., why would you then start him and have his name announced to much fanfare before every game? Talk about awkward.

And, why put poor Hornacek through that?

I realize that you’d want to try to cultivate his trade value, but for how long vs. the development of the younger players? The young guys need to play, and H needs to be able to fully implement his system, for better or worse.

Also, just wanted to say, after last night: I AM the FBI!
🙂

The thing is that boosting Melo’s trade value is quite useless unless he decides to expand his list of teams he would waive the NTC for. As long as its Houston only, I have a hard time believing having Melo start and playing decently well or coming off the bench would entice the Rockets to offer more either way.

He won’t perform like a superstar as a starter or not, he’ll be Melo. At this point his trade value is literally based on his reputation and if he becomes a sixth man I’m quite sure people will chalk it up to “oh but the Knicks are trying to get rid of him” instead of him not being good enough to start anymore.

He would make such a good sixth man. That is the perfect role for him. A guy who puts up a mediocre TS% but on high usage and doesn’t have a ton of secondary skills, that is a 6th man profile. It even makes sense because you can run a balanced starting five out there, and get Willy into the starting lineup. If you start Melo, you either have to move Lee to the bench and then you have no shot creation on the second unit, or you have to move Willy to the bench and then you’re not starting your center of the future and possibly the best player on the team.

Melo would be a much better Jamal Crawford than Jamal in a sixth man role.

I’ve long said that there is even another benefit of making Melo the sixth man. He might expand where he’s willing to go in a trade.

Not hearing his name announced to fanfare each night as a starter might very well eat away at his ego. He’ll really really want to be traded.

@14 – not sure about that, Jamal Crawford has had some pretty good years in that role. Melo would be good at it too, but much better than Crawford might be pushing it.

If Ainge throws in anything more than 1 second rounder to complete the deal he’s lost his mind IMO.

Cock Jowles = Everyone – that is brilliant!

hard to imagine the celts backing all the way out of this…sounded like they really wanted flat minded irving…

their picks seem like the the way to go, if a 2nd rounder or two won’t get it done…

even if thomas doesn’t play til christmas – hard to imagine the cavs getting anything better than crowder and the nets pick (plus whatever thomas can give them when he gets healthy)…

it’ll be interesting to see how long rose can stay healthy playing big minutes – if he’s even ready to go at the beginning of the season…

here’s what the celts still have pick wise:
2018 Lakers pick (ONLY if 2-5)
2018 Own pick
2019 Kings/76ers pick* (top-1 protected)
2019 Clippers pick (top-14 protected)
2019 Grizzlies pick (top-8 protected)
2019 Own pick
* Only if Lakers pick does not convey

@16

But we’ve also seen Jamal pretty much only against bench units and in limited minutes, while we’ve been watching Melo struggle against good defenders playing huge minutes. I’m quite certain that Melo would be substantially better than Crawford in a similar limited role for a good team. Jamal is either on fire making tough shots or he’s completely useless, while Melo has a better skill set in hypothetical terms for the role.

I’ve been arguing on Twitter with some twits that think it’s treason to want Melo off the Knicks. There are still a lot of people that just glare at PPG and think that’s the be-all-end-all.

Tote, very good post about why Melo needs to be the player that doesn’t dress on this roster.

@18 thank you. Don’t understand why everyone seems to think that obviously Boston will throw in more picks. What for? If the Cavs balk, so what? One more year of Thomas and you get the Nets pick back. Hardly a catastrophe.

I think the way the trade was portrayed in the media strengthens both the celtics hand and their resolve.

Most people pegged it as a huge Cavs win. So the incentive to add more assets is limited for Boston, and they can and will say (in addition to pointing out that EVERYONE ALREADY KNEW ABOUT THE INJURY) that they’ve given up enough even with question marks over Thomas.

If they give another first or Tatum or Brown it’s getting close to being as bad as the Brooklyn deal that got them all these assets in the first place.

Don’t understand why everyone seems to think that obviously Boston will throw in more picks. What for? If the Cavs balk, so what? One more year of Thomas and you get the Nets pick back. Hardly a catastrophe.

Ainge thinks Kyrie is better than Thomas and with the addition of Hayward and Tatum they are a serious contender to get to the finals. If Thomas is out for a couple of months and isn’t as effective when he returns they have an inferior team and less of a chance to get home court. He’s in win NOW mode even though he still has all those draft picks to keep trying to close the gap with the Warriors

Anyone see that video of Frank and TJH working out together at Melo’s gym with Chris Brickley? Sweet. Frank has to be 6’5 without shoes since he looks taller than TJH – is listed an inch taller. He’s really 6’6 by NBA standards.

I still don’t get the Kyrie-Irving trade. This weekend I had to explain why Isaiah Thomas had a better season last year than Kyrie Irving to a friend of mine and his pal from New England. That Celtics fan was not happy after seeing these numbers (and me explaining what they mean):

PER – Player Efficiency Rating – Thomas: 10th; Kyrie 28th
DWS – Defensive Win Share – Thomas: 145th; Irving:159th
BPM – Box Plus Minus – Thomas: 20th; Irving: 49th
WS – Win Shares – Thomas: 9th; Irving: 23rd.)
VORP – Value over Replacement Player – Thomas: 15th; Irving: 28th

Carmelo Anthony shot .535 TS% last year, which is what the 26th-ranked Grizzlies had. We need to kill this narrative that he’s the kind of shoot-first sixth man that a solid team needs. He’s not.

@26

That stat takes into consideration all players in all teams, which means it’s obviously top heavy; stars with great shooting numbers are exclusively starters pretty much. I dont think many teams have a guy who can score in volume at a .535 ts% mark at the wing position.

I’m not saying he would have star numbers as a sixth man or be decisive for a contending team, just that the role fits him much better than starting / being the focal point of an offense. I also presume that having a lesser role in a really good team would help Melo’s shooting numbers, and I know that’s a big if, but he could still be valuable in a smaller role. I’m about as anti-Melo as anyone here, but it’s not like he’s completely useless.

Solomon Hill out 6-8 months with a hamstring tear. We seriously need to get New Orleans on the phone ASAP. All the ingredients are there for them to make a terrible trade:

– Bad GM
– A history of making shortsighted moves
– A fan base expecting the playoffs after the Boogie trade
– They have one year to convince Boogie to re-sign
– They’re already paranoid about Anthony Davis leaving
– An incredibly shallow team with no wings who just lost their starting SF

Offer them Lee. Offer them Lance. Offer them Kuz. Offer them Melo (on the small chance he accepts a trade there). Offer to take on Asik’s dead money. There’s a good chance they’ll give up valuable pieces in return.

I’m too lazy to look up the number right now, but Melo’s shooting % on catch-and-shoot jumpers was excellent last year. He’ll be better on a team with stars who pass, like Houston or Cleveland. He could become a top-notch offensive player again.

And maybe on a good team he’ll start giving a shit on defense again.

I’m too lazy to look up the number right now, but Melo’s shooting % on catch-and-shoot jumpers was excellent last year.

ruruland! We’ve missed you, bud. Which forum are you trolling these days?

Carmelo Anthony shot .535 TS% last year, which is what the 26th-ranked Grizzlies had. We need to kill this narrative that he’s the kind of shoot-first sixth man that a solid team needs. He’s not.

We’re not talking about him being the 6th man for a “solid team,” we’re talking about him being 6th man for the Knicks.

Anyone see that video of Frank and TJH working out together at Melo’s gym with Chris Brickley? Sweet. Frank has to be 6’5 without shoes since he looks taller than TJH – is listed an inch taller. He’s really 6’6 by NBA standards.

And everyone knows THJ is actually 6’8, so it’s even more impressive!

I saw the video. I also saw the video of THJr balling with Melo. I wonder why we haven’t seen video of Melo and Ntilikina playing together?

@19 I agree that Melo would be great 6th man and I am not particularly a Melo hater, although he dies have his limitations. Jamal Crawford has won the 6th Man of the Year award 3 times in recent years, so it’s hard to argue he’s not pretty good in that role, that’s all I’m saying.

Comments are closed.