Knicks Morning News (2017.08.25)

  • [NYTimes] Not a Single W.N.B.A. Star Has a Shoe Line to Call Her Own
    (Friday, August 25, 2017 6:59:19 AM)

    Footwear gender equity remains stuck in the past with models from male stars, like Michael Jordan, dominating the market for women’s basketball shoes.

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony left out of Knicks’ season-ticket promo
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:25:33 PM)

    “Rise Higher, With a Full Plan” … A plan without Melo? That was the question Knicks fans had Thursday night when the team announced its new season-ticket plans on Twitter. The tweet was accompanied by a photo, which was curiously missing the Knicks’ most famous player: Carmelo Anthony. Frank Ntilikina, Kristaps Porzingis and Willy Hernangomez…

  • [NYDN] Knicks leave Carmelo Anthony out of season ticket plan promo
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 5:11:14 PM)

    It looks like the Knicks have already moved on from Carmelo Anthony.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo left off season ticket plan announcement
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:57:04 PM)

    Knicks F Carmelo Anthony was left out of the Knicks’ season ticket plan that they posted on social media on Thursday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Kristaps Porzingis using MMA training as part of workout
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:23:04 AM)

    As Kristaps Porzingis continues his training in an effort to improve before the 2017-18 season begins, he’s adding in a new workout regimen to his plan.

  • [SNY Knicks] Did the Knicks miss an opportunity with Kyrie Irving?
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:30:47 AM)

    On Loud Mouths, Jon Hein and Marc Malusis break down the Kyrie Irving trade and discuss if the Knicks missed an opportunity to acquire him.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks interested in acquiring free agents Jarrett Jack, Archie Goodwin
    (Thursday, August 24, 2017 8:19:20 AM)

    The Knicks are interested in signing free agent guards Jarrett Jack and Archie Goodwin, reports ESPN’s Ohm Youngmisuk.

  • 42 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.25)”

    ZMan-

    Yeah, that’s why I wasn’t too confused on why ainge made the Kyrie trade. It’s a risk, but he’s at least thinking ahead, and not assuming the pick will automatically be a top 3 selection lock like the past few years. The nets suck, but they’re still professionals with pride. They won’t play without gumption. That’s usually what separates the awful teams from the poor teams.

    On another note – to call your show “loud mouths” kind of sums up what kind of message they’re trying to get out there. It’s funny, if the Knicks made the Kyrie move I would put good money on them eviscerating the FO for it. Talk about shock jocks.

    The media talking heads apparently failed to notice that the promo thingy also left out THJr.

    By their (probably flawed) reasoning, the Knicks would also be looking to trade him too.

    Excluding a recent FA addition like THJr from MSG promotional material isn’t close to the same thing as excluding the face of the Knicks franchise the past 7 seasons.

    Why WOULD they use Melo on a promotional tool when they are shopping him, when he has outlined where he wants to go, and clearly they are at odds?
    Sometimes it’s just pragmatic. Not controversial.
    There is no doubt the two entities, the Knicks and Melo Inc., want to break their relationship.
    It is a testament to the Knicks’ dysfunction that they can’t get rid of the guy.
    This franchise…

    ^what 3 said

    Although Melo has been causing some drama, it carries more weight leaving a multi time all star and what was the face of the franchise. I get not including thjr, you don’t want that guy to feel more entitled than he already is before even playing a regular season game.

    I don’t think there’s any good way to defend the trade regardless of where the pick winds up. IT was a somewhat significantly better player than Kyrie last season. That’s indisputable. Obviously there are factors other than production to consider when making a trade (age, contract status, etc.) and I suppose you could argue that when those are fully taken into account, Kyrie is a more valuable trade chip than IT.

    The problem with that argument is
    A) The Celtics threw in two very valuable assets to close a trade value gap that I’m not sure exists
    B) If the Celtics are thinking more about the future, why are they paying 31 year old Al Horford $28 million dollars per season?

    It’s as if the Celtics are doing Phil Jackson’s “hybrid approach” thing and actually doing it as well as it can be done, but it’s still dumb because it’s an inherently dumb idea.

    I don’t think there’s any good way to defend the trade regardless of where the pick winds up. IT was a somewhat significantly better player than Kyrie last season. That’s indisputable. Obviously there are factors other than production to consider when making a trade (age, contract status, etc.) and I suppose you could argue that when those are fully taken into account, Kyrie is a more valuable trade chip than IT.

    I think the Cavs got a much better deal and were smart to pull the trigger. Having said that, IT is looking at a massive payday and he will be a tremendous liability on defense against the Warriors.

    @5

    Houston starting over Earl Monroe is pretty much the only thing I dislike here.

    Anyone here following the Andrew Wiggins saga over there in Minnesota? What is he thinking about firing his agent and leaving that kind of max money on the table like that? I get that he’s possibly getting assurances from another team in a more attractive location that he will be paid that sum, but passing up this kind of cash opens him up to serious risk should some injury or slump in his play happens. Either way, Wolves fans should be thankful. Wiggins is saving their team from overpaying for his one dimensional game years down the line.

    I’m just glad we won’t be forced into giving Wiggins that type of money.

    With our luck we’re the team guaranteeing him a max offer when he turns FA.

    Going from 7-8 years of Melo straight to 4 more of Wiggins would be just too fucking much.

    BTW, Commissioner Silver will have to step in if Wiggins is getting assurances from another team for max money this offseason. If this and the Paul George/Magic Johnson fiasco are signs of what’s to come, the league could be looking at a new age of FA tampering.

    Going from 7-8 years of Melo straight to 4 more of Wiggins would be just too fucking much.

    In a word, it would be… “Knicksian.”

    “I’m just glad we won’t be forced into giving Wiggins that type of money.”

    Don’t be so sure …..

    How crazy would it be if in a 3 team deal with Minnesota and Houston, the Wolves get Ryan Anderson, Frank Ntilikina, Zhou Qi, and swap rights on our 2018 1st rounder while Houston gets Melo and we get Andrew Wiggins and cap filler? I would be so pissed. I could see the logic in trading for Kyrie Irving, who is at least very good at making shots. The only thing, and I mean only thing, Andrew Wiggins is good at is taking shots. I don’t know anything about his ability to make them though. I know this is all speculative blog talk and nothing to get worked up about, but paying another team so we can be the idiots committing to Andrew Wiggins long term feels Knicksian. And he’s only 22 so he fits the young athlete mold.

    That’s the only way Wiggins leaves Minnesota. He can sign an offer sheet but if they’re willing to give him the max extension then they’d match anything. He’s probably trying to be traded to the Eastern Conference. More All Star bids and way more shots.

    with the only semblance of knicks news being a promo poster which thankfully doesn’t show a grinning (i’m getting paid mother fuckers) melo – just wondering if anyone thinks mcgregor has a shot?

    @18

    Please don’t do that to me, it hurts just thinking about this possibility.

    Houston starting over Earl Monroe is pretty much the only thing I dislike here.

    Looking at Basketball-Reference: Peak Earl Monroe is better than peak Allan Houston.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Earl+Monroe&player_id1_select=Earl+Monroe&y1=1977&player_id1=monroea01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Allan+Houston&player_id2_select=Allan+Houston&y2=2000&player_id2=houstal01&idx=players

    But I thought the gap was much greater given how much the 1972-73 team is mythologized and how salty Knick fans are about Houston’s contract and his relationship with Dolan. Also, would Earl have shot 3’s well?

    In all reality it’s best for Andrew Wiggins and Minnesota to move on from each other. The Wolves would win a lot more games in the short term if they traded Wiggins and Dieng for Courtney Lee and Ryan Anderson. The only problem is the draft capital they would need to receive in return for Wiggins, and nobody should be dumb enough to pay them 2 1st round picks. Teague/Lee/Butler/Anderson/Towns would kick a lot of ass, though. It kicks more ass now than a team with $75M tied up between Wiggins, Towns, and Dieng would in a couple years.

    @21

    Yeah, and I just think Houston generally overrated. He’s one of those 90s guys that put up a lot of points from the wing position, then you go have a closer look and find out that he wasn’t very efficient and contributed very little outside of scoring.

    Houston gets remembered a lot because he was a part of the Knicks last couple of really competitive teams, but he wasn’t that great and fell off hard right after. It will always be weird comparing guys from such different time frames, but Monroe is a legend in his own right.

    I’m not a huge Houston, as he was far from great, but I think he is under-appreciated as a defender. He must have ran miles and miles each game, coming off screens on offense and chasing other SGs on defense, as he had to in Van Gundy’s taxing system.

    If he was on a D’Antoni team, he’d probably have put up incredibly gaudy scoring numbers.

    if phil’s soundtrack was janis or maybe just a giant gong, steve’s is definitely celine.

    https://blog.msg.com/2017/08/25/a-new-day-for-the-knicks-the-journey-begins/#single-article

    that last part of the essay had me laughing…

    This is a seductive city. Everybody wants to be the one to do it, to fix it all, but none of us are in it for the attention. We are not looking for celebrity. We are not fame hunters. We just want to pour ourselves into the process, one step at a time, and see the result.

    We just want to do it.

    yes, the process most definitely should begin with a question – why in the hell did you hand out two too many player options…

    always funny to observe words and actions not meshing with one another…we’ll see steve, we’ll see…

    There is no doubt the two entities, the Knicks and Melo Inc., want to break their relationship.
    It is a testament to the Knicks’ dysfunction that they can’t get rid of the guy.

    @4 – Sorry Frank-O. This time I applaud the FO for not making a move. Typical Knicksy move is to buy-high, sell-low. They’re refusing to sell-low. The signings have been buy-high, but taking on a bad contract is worse than just losing him to FA.
    @9 – I agree with Monroe over Houston, but if we’re not worrying about position (too much) Bernard is in my starting 5 too. Come to think of it, I like King a lot more than I like Melo. And I would put Bradley on the roster too. Starks is overrated. I’ll never forgive 2-18.

    I feel the need to remind people that when you draft an overrated, volume-scoring player like Wiggins at 19, you have to pay him max money at 22 and then again at 26 or 27. It’s a bad practice and there are very few players who show enough youthful promise to commit that kind of cap space to them.

    #TeamFourthYearSeniorDraftees

    I also want to make another comment about the FO and especially Mills. I am not privy to knowing what he did or didn’t do prior to his current role. None of us really do. The public-facing persona of a lieutenant is often the one he’s told to wear. So he starts with a clean slate with me. Although I am very skeptical, I’ll give him a chance.

    So far, so good. We didn’t hear from Phil and when we did, it was often through a third party. Fans weren’t worth the effort. The blog takes effort. It takes thought. He said the right things. Yes, leaving Melo out by name was telling. I believe that a lot of that post was about Melo. When I read:

    He (Ntilikina), Porzingis and Hardaway, along with Hernangómez and Ron Baker, will exemplify a new defensive mindset that puts a premium on making stops. Only from there can a productive offense flow. We will emphasize ball movement, body movement, spacing and screening, while understanding that these changes will be a work in progress. We may not be there at first, but that the brand of ball our players will aspire to fulfill.

    I think about all the things Carmelo Anthony does not do. Let’s see what happens.

    Great to see that Steve Mills wants the team “scraping” for loose balls. They don’t grammar check this garbage?

    @29

    Well, it also sounds like a person reciting a “how to play good basketball” manual for high school players. Play defense, go after loose balls, make the extra pass, move without the ball…

    Will that happen tho? I have a hard time thinking any front office member or coach will come into the season and say “wow, I hope my team never plays defense, ignores loose balls, ISO every chance they see and move like statues on the court!”.

    It does show he knows the very bottom of the barrel basics of basketball, but I can’t be too excited by this sort of statement to be honest.

    Will that happen tho? I have a hard time thinking any front office member or coach will come into the season and say “wow, I hope my team never plays defense, ignores loose balls, ISO every chance they see and move like statues on the court!”.

    And yet, when you actually look at the FO decisions made around this league (like offering Andrew Wiggins a max deal) that’s exactly what it seems like they’re doing.

    @32

    Precisely… I’ve seen so many times the same talk about playing basketball the right way, and then black hole players who can’t bother to play defense keep starting, etc. It’s all nice and beautiful until the season starts.

    Will that happen tho? I have a hard time thinking any front office member or coach will come into the season and say “wow, I hope my team never plays defense, ignores loose balls, ISO every chance they see and move like statues on the court!”

    exactly.
    Wiggins for Melo – Thibs may take that but don’t think he’s dumb enough to take Anderson

    It’s true that front offices often go for pointzz, but if there is one thing I can say about our front office is that they seem happy with Ntilikina over Smith, and they seemed completely uninterested in Derrick Rose. Besides that, they obviously love Basketball. It’s small praise, but I’m not writing them off yet; they may still turn out to be decent. And all the potential end of bench guys they’ve recruited for training camp have some defenders here as good pickups, so I think all of them have some potential.

    Houston also came along at the wrong time-he really was a terrific 3 point shooter, but he didn’t take enough threes.

    Van Gundy was a great coach, but boy, did he not have the team shooting nearly as many threes as he should have had them shooting.

    Isaiah Thomas’ hip might save Danny Ainge from making a big mistake. Why couldn’t Andrea Bargnani’s hip do that 4 summers ago? Here’s hoping IT’s hip checks out so Boston and Cleveland can end up worse off in 2 seasons.

    @38 Yes it would be nice if we can steal Kyrie away for just money and have a core in 2 years of KP, Willy, Doncic, Frank, Kyrie and ThJr. That’s a team.

    We could also offer Willy, Ntilikina plus two unprotected firsts for Kyrie after the trade gets cancelled! Now that would be a Knicksian plot twist.

    Better yet, Willy and Ntilikina for IT and then have IT go down for season-ending surgery.

    Isaiah Thomas’ hip might save Danny Ainge from making a big mistake.

    I see it the other way around. If IT’s hip injury is such an issue, that explains why Ainge was willing to include the pick.

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