Knicks Morning News (2017.08.24)

  • [SNY Knicks] JRSportBrief: Kyrie Irving to Boston, Carmelo Anthony still here
    (Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:25:43 PM)

    In the latest installment of JRSportBrief on SNY.tv, JR reacts to Kyrie Irving going to Boston while Carmelo Anthony remains in New York.

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony to Cavaliers not as farfetched after big trade
    (Wednesday, August 23, 2017 4:42:55 PM)

    When the Cavaliers talked to the Knicks about Kyrie Irving, Cleveland brass had no interest in discussing Carmelo Anthony. Kristaps Porzingis was their lone focus. Whether that changes after the blockbuster trade that sent Irving to the Celtics, with the Cavaliers emerging with more assets than anyone imagined, remains to be seen. As does whether…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis’ pursuit of 18-year-old model isn’t going well
    (Wednesday, August 23, 2017 6:23:26 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis knows whom he wants. Three months after sliding into the DMs of Croatian model Ines Nikic on Instagram, the 7-foot-3 center made a play for the social media stunner once again, weeks after the brunette bombshell turned 18. “Why does it matters to you that much,” Nikic asked Porzingis about his request for…

  • 59 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.24)”

    With all the rumors goin around, I’m struggling to find ways to fit the good ones onto the roster. For instance, I’m good with a Melo trade to Cleveland involving Shump and their own ’18 1st. But it’s more likely that they’ll demand KOQ rather than take back Lee- and both players are great fits for them. I’m even cool with offering all 3, but we’d hafta take back ALOT of crap just to get that 1st. Of course, if they’d offer up Crowder, that may change things enough to make it worthwhile. Also, I’d rather the team package KOQ and Lee for a better 1st rounder and a young piece or MKG and Maybe Kamisky. I feel like the options are there to make trades to accelerate the rebuild a little, but it’s also a tightrope for the team. I’d probably feel better if something would just happen already.

    I’d take whatever crap they wanted to give up if it meant the Nets pick, but I don’t see how they could possibly trade the Nets pick, not with Lebron likely leaving after this year. Getting the Nets pick was so important for that reason. They could quickly rebuild with that pick. Imagine if that pick became Bagley! Lebron might even stay to play with Bagley!

    Otherwise, I dunno if just a Cavs pick would be worth taking their shit.

    How about a 3 team deal with Phoenix and Cleveland where we get Eric Bledsoe and Jae Crowder, the Suns get Shump, Frye, and the Cavs 2018 1st round pick, and the Cavs get Melo. I know they don’t fit the 25 and under card, but dammit if Bledsoe, Hardaway, Crowder, KP, and Hernangomez wouldn’t be a better starting five what than most teams in the Eastern Conference currently have. We couldn’t agree to this trade until October 22nd, but I think it works for everyone. The Suns get their first round pick in return for Bledsoe who they have been shopping for a while, we get two starters at positions of weakness, and the Cavs get Melo without losing Love or the Nets 2018 pick (and a salary dump if all of Melo, LeBron, and IT leave town). Who says no?

    I think cle says no – I think crowder and a pick for Melo is a lot for them, even with the salary dump, and it kills their depth.

    Crowded was a big get for them matching up with GS.

    But I quite like the trade – it might get work.

    Here’s mine

    Cle gets Melo, KOQ.

    Por gets Love, Shump, Kuz

    NY gets Turner, Harkless, Leonard, Collins and first rounders from Por, Cle (theirs, not brooklyn’s).

    Cleveland makes a win now move that also accelerates a post-Lebron rebuild as Melo would opt out and KOQ will wherever he is. They would have a high pick and immediate space next year.

    Portland gets out from 2 terrible deals, gets the best player in the deal who fits a need, and replacement wings with decent contracts.

    We get the mother of all cap nightmares. But that’s fine – probably the best use for any space we get in the next two years is to absorb picks for assets anyway. We’re not getting top FAs here next summer. This way in the summer of 2020 we have a whole bunch of promising players on rookie scale deals, big money only to KP and THJ, and a load of cap space. We may get even get felder or swanigan thrown in. And we can then trade Lee for more future assets.

    This is the best fake trade I’ve ever come up with – I look forward to it being shot down 😉

    Imagine if that pick became Bagley! Lebron might even stay to play with Bagley!

    The Cavaliers are a more valuable franchise with LeBron’s involvement, even after he retires. If they can line up a future star like Bagley, perhaps their next franchise player, maybe they can talk about a path in which LeBron can gradually become the Magic Johnson of the team.

    It may have been superficial at times, but Magic’s involvement with the Lakers helped their credibility and probably their bottom line.

    The idea of ‘Melo waiving his NTC to play in Cleveland is very misaligned with what the media is reporting.

    I think a lot of people – me included – assume he softens if Lebron encourages him and if no houston deal is forthcoming.

    Don’t the Cavs have to wait 60 days before they can trade Crowder and the Nets pick or am I confusing trades and free agent signings somehow?

    The Cavs could trade their own pick though.

    I’m not taking back both turner and Leonard … that doesn’t make sense if we need cap space in theee years to sign kp and Willy

    I can’t picture Carmelo Anthony, who has lived in NYC for the past few years, willingly accepting being traded to cleveland, a city where buildings close by 10pm, midnight if it’s really “crazy”.

    Melo isn’t concerned with winning a title – if he was he would have opened up his options by now.

    I realize this is just speculation but that’s my impression of him over the years. #staym3Lo

    maybe they can talk about a path in which LeBron can gradually become the Magic Johnson of the team.

    Not while Dan Gilbert owns the team

    @10 – we don’t need cap space to sign KP and Willy. We have their full bird rights so we can sign them irrespective.

    We do need cap space eventually to add to our young core. In 2020, the only member of that core who will already be playing under a new deal is KP. THj will be entering his option year. Dotson and Willy will be turning FAs and will have cap holds. That summer under my deal Noah, Turner, Leonard, harkless, Thomas and maybe THJ and Lee would be coming off the cap. Collins, Frank and the 5 first round picks we’d now have over the next three years would all be on rookie scale deals.

    So we’d likely have very significant space depending on Dotson and Willy deals with which to add players to take us to the next level.

    So the question really is do we need the space BEFORE 2020. I’m not sure any FA worth adding is coming to us after another rebuilding season this year, and even then we only have space anyway if Melo opts out.

    It really comes down to if the current core has become good enough by 2019 to attract top level FAs, or whether that core plus Collins and 2 additional picks is likely to be a more attractive destination in 2020. I accept it’s a risk but we get a lot of compensation for that risk in my deal.

    Melo hung tough with what he wanted when he was in Denver and wanted to leave. He’s doing the same now. Exoerience taught him it will work. Nothing will happen now until either Houston decides to offer enough (I think unlikely) or Melo realizes it’s not actually going to hsppen this time. That means the start of training camp at the earliest for him to realize, msybe Portland or Utah or Washington isn’t so bad after all.

    @ 14 – the situation is different now though for Melo. He is much older and no longer in his prime. He’s also not a shiny new toy that Dolan is salivating over, dreaming of jersey sales and playoff runs and raised ticket prices. Plus we got a new GM who appears so far to not be a push over. Melo had leverage because of the NTC but he’s basically played that hand and now the leverage is more in our corner because we can refuse to not trade him for garbage and he can waste the few remaining good years he has left on a team that isn’t competing. He has one more card to play, which is staying for this year and exercising his player option, staying on the Knicks for 2 more seasons. I’m sure he’s thinking he could exercise that option and then the Knicks would buy him out but the new GM could tell him, if you exercise that option we will not buy you out, in which case he’s looking at 2 seasons with the Knicks, which means missing his chance at the banana boat.

    Also Melo previously had Cleveland on his list, by most accounts. Going for Houston only is, I think, a function of the CP3 trade and the sense that Cleveland were unravelling somewhat. This trade stabilises them, at least for this year. If Lebron calls and says ‘I’m all in for this year and then next summer we can make a plan together’ I think Melo goes for that…

    @ 16 – I really think we need to get on the horn with Cleveland and LeBron and try to convince Melo to open up to Cleveland again. Its a guaranteed trip to the ECF, most likely the Finals. With Crowder and if IT is healthy they would have a better shot this year against GSW than last year (still a long shot).

    For Cleveland, trade Melo for Love (get a third team involved like Portland where Love would go in exchange for picks/players to us). It makes so much sense now for Cleveland. They can go all in one more year with LeBron, Melo, IT, Crowder. And if they fall short and LeBron wants to bounce, Melo can opt out and they don’t have to resign IT. That gives them a shit ton of cap space plus that Nets pick next year (and Crowder) to start a rebuild.

    Imagine if Cleveland gets D Wade and Melo and only gives up Crowder, Shump, their 2018 1st round pick and Frye in the process. They could go into the playoffs 10 deep.

    PG: Thomas, Rose
    SG: Smith, Wade
    SF: LeBron, Korver
    PF: Love, Melo
    C: Thompson, Zizic

    And then you still have Jose Calderon and Jeff Green. That team would push Golden State to their limits and might even beat them if they get lucky.

    People need to stop with this “Boston might challenge Cleveland” nonsense. Cleveland is going to the Finals. The Celtics team that went to the ECF lost four starters and will undoubtedly take a big step back defensively. Playing for the 2018 Cleveland Cavaliers is a guaranteed trip to the NBA Finals.

    I do see why Lebron would want Wade to join, but he looks completely done to me, like, Karl Malone joining the Lakers type of done. Melo at this point is a superior player to him.

    I think Lebron is going for the banana boat reunion next year. There have been reports flying around saying he’s obsessively training and I think he’ll focus 100% on getting to the finals in Cleveland once more, and only then think about a banana boat reunion of anything like that.

    How is Melo going to Cleveland if his good buddy LeBron can’t guarantee he’s not leaving?

    Not happening, best bet is a banana boat reunion in Houston next year.

    Let’s be real, the Knicks are not getting that Nets first rounder from Cleveland, that is a complete fantasy. It also seems very unlikely that a Melo would agree to go to the Cavs because playing in Cleveland is not good for his brand. Also if Lebron could leave why would he want to be there ? I guess he could opt out too after next year but he would be a better fit in Houston where defense doesn’t matter.

    I am not in on taking Shump back, once was enough and NY has a glut of 2 guards as it is, No Thank You.

    Reading LeBron’s tweets today — in which he is rightfully firing back at fans who are angry at IT (can that be right? His team traded him.) — and it’s so irritating how there is no middle ground on the dialogue about situations like LeBron leaving for Miami or Durant leaving for Golden State.

    I couldn’t give a s— about whether these players are “soft” or “cowards.” On the other hand, I personally feel the league is more interesting when franchise players are not bouncing around every 3-4 years when their prospects on their current team are not as good as somewhere else.
    I don’t mean to take the owners’ side over the players’. It’s a players’ league. As we’ve discussed ad naseum, just rewards the very best players with massive contracts to stay put.

    Can’t a fan just prefer more stability with team’s rosters?

    The fans are going to be invested in their teams, yeah, but I like the players moving to find better situations. While there is obviously a geographical correlation to the moves, there’s also the fact that no one is running to build the next best team in Orlando or New York, because those are poorly ran franchises. The players being able and willing to move to better places should show front offices around the league that they have to step up and be less dreadful to try to keep their players or atrract new ones. Franchises still have massive advantages to keep their own players in general, so in the long run it should punish incompetence and reward good management.
    Some teams are inherently going to get wrecked by this but well, there’s no perfect solution.

    If I were Cle I wouldn’t trade crowder straight up for Melo. They need defense. if they need another offensive weapon, it’s not an Iso scorer who has to have the ball in his hands. If they want more scoring from the 3, they’d be just as well off to play Korver more.

    If you’re Cleveland and you want to move Love, I think you’d aim for something like a lesser version of the Kyrie deal-something that gives you roughly equivalent short term value and some sort of future asset. Melo just gives you future cap space, and I don’t know how Cleveland feels about their desirability as a FA destination.

    But a deal of love for Melo doesn’t ‘just’ give you cap space – it gives you a roughly equivalent chance to win now, but with a cap hit more consistent with your twin track approach. If Lebron leaves they don’t want to be stuck with love. If Lebron leaves, Melo would too. And if he stays, Melo stays – so it’s a good hedge for them. Especially if they can also unload shump.

    @ 21 – cause Melo can leave too. They can play together for a year in Cleveland and then leave together and go to The Lakers or wherever.

    Ok, then reverse it – why would Cleveland give up anything for Melo if by all indications he and LeBron are leaving in a year?

    @29

    Well, if Lebron does leave and IT too, they can trade Love after that in the off-season. Hes better than Melo and younger, so why would they intentionally trade away an asset now for a guarantee they get nothing next year with Melo leaving? Even if trading Love for Melo gives them a very slightly better chance at winning this year it would be an incredibly dumb move.

    I’m no Casanova (though I did marry a beautiful woman that I met in college), but I’d be happy to give KP some courting advice. What he’s doing is cringe inducing.

    Melo to the Cavs still seems highly unlikely unless we suddenly get rumors that he’s willing to waive the NTC for that.

    Here’s a tweak on my deal that I posted late last night: Lee, OQ and Randle (17.1m) for Shumpert, Frye (18m) and a pick swap option for the Knicks with their 2018 first rounder with the Net’s first rounder now owned by Cleveland.

    Cleveland improves the team right now with 2 useful players. The pick swap may end up being little to nothing, though there is a slight risk. The Knicks are not likely to be good, however, and might/should be tanking. Randle is just there to make the salaries work.

    The Knicks get out of the final year of Lee’s contract (12.8m for 2019/20). And, who knows, Shump might even opt out after this year, saving the Knicks 2 years on Lee. With the pick swap, the Knicks basically double their chances of getting one of those coveted top 5 picks in next year’s draft. Surely both the Knicks AND Nets won’t overachieve this year? But, if the Knicks do win more than anticipated, they can do the swap.

    Melo isn’t opting out of his present deal. That’s 30 million if he’s traded. He’s not getting close to that as an FA.

    Ainge is, thankfully, starting to make some bad deals. Kyrie for IT is essentially a lateral move. I get that Kyrie is younger and has one more year of team control but the BKLYN pick is top 5 unprotected. What if that player is as good as Durant or Harden? He just threw that in. Wow! Even if I have other high picks I don’t do that. Plus he already traded this year’s #1 for Jason Tatum. That’s after passing on Josh Jackson who literally everyone had rated higher. Plus he let Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder go.

    I get that fans in BOS are in the flush of fortune but they’re not playing this hand well at all.

    As a NYK fan I know they’ll kick our ass similar to last year but I’m still quite happy with these moves.

    CLE is the clear winner of that deal.

    I started off the off-season by thinking we should get rid of Melo at all costs. I now have changed that tune. We should wait until the trading deadline. At that point we’ll be out of the race for the playoffs, Melo will become increasingly frustrated. He’ll open up the list of teams he could be traded to and someone will need his services. I just hope we suck enough for that plan to come to fruition.

    As for KP’s love-life, I’m glad he’s setting the bar high.

    25 –

    That’s a good breakdown actually. All the potential for stars to bolt at a whim does put a bit more pressure on various unnamed franchises to actually be competent over the long haul. But most fans can only consider each move as a new “TRAITOROUS INFIDEL” when an invested player leaves.

    It’s even seeming to happen to guys who don’t actually “choose” to leave, like IT. Talk about being triggered.

    @37

    Yeah, it’s been a lot of hatred specially because of KD and Lebron, but I cant blame a player for striving towards greatness.

    KD had the opportunity to play with one of the best teams in league’s history, and people really wanted him to stay with OKC, the team that screwed his chances at building a championship winner by trading Harden for Kevin Martin? Should he reward the franchise who screwed his chances because they didn’t want to pay the freaking luxury tax to win a title, while Durant generated truckloads of money for them and filled seats every night? Hell no.

    Melo’s NTC is so freaking painful. It’s like we’re stuck in purgatory with that thing.

    Melo was a decent player in his day and I don’t even really think he’s a bad guy, but FFS his tenure here has been like water torture, every step of the way just so annoying and Dolan’s Razor-ish. We give up too much to get him, pay way too much to keep him then build in a provision in his contract so it’s impossible to get rid of him. By the time this ends the dude will have been on the team for NINE freaking years.

    Again! Everyone skips over the argument that the league would be better off/more fun if the talent that has accumulated in Golden State or accumulated in Miami in 2010 was spread out among more teams (maybe I’m totally on my own on this?).

    Instead, we spend all our energy on the argument that fans who “blame” KD, LeBron, and now IT4 are being ridiculous.

    Given the video clips we’ve seen, is there anyway for Hoodie Melo (instead of that OTHER guy) to play for the Knicks?

    @40

    I 100% agree it would be way more fun, but how would you do it? There’s just no way that would happen.

    @43
    Agreed. Nice to see Jaylen Brown call them out on it, too. I wonder if he’ll get a backlash from fans in Boston?

    The C’s did let white boy fan faves Olynyk and Jerebko go, which was kind of shocking.

    If KP need dating advice, why not just call Sasha…. wasn’t he engaged to Sharapova at one time?

    Swiftandabundant, you misunderstand my point. I agree with you, Melo is not the player he was or the trade bait he was. My point is that he is still basically behaving the same way he did then. Since it does seem like the Knicks will hang tough, this means a long wait until he is traded, if ever, because he will have to change his mentality first.

    I hate to say this, but I read a report out of Europe that KP hurt his knee and is not practicing with the team. No details or verifcation yet.

    The people in Boston burning IT’s jersey are dumber than a rock. Kyrie and his flat earth theory may sell well there. It’s shocking that people are so incapable of nuanced thought that they can’t even tell the difference between a player leaving as a FA vs. getting traded. Calling them dumber than a rock is insulting to rocks.

    Management didn’t want KP to play in Eurobaskets and now he’s hurt? His ego may turn out to be his undoing.

    I still haven’t been able to verify the report, but now it is saying he’ll be able to resume practice on Sunday.

    Man, if Melo starts the year on this team, KP will get less touches than last year with chuckers TH2 and Cool Beas on the scene.

    Ummm… Isn’t Boston highly liberal? Why would they burn his Jersey over race?

    Liberal doesn’t mean non racist. 2 of the most racist cities are liberal. Chicago and Boston. Daley was a Democrat and was a scumbag racist who helped kill Fred Hampton.

    So Woj now says talks between NY and Houston are “dormant” and both teams are preparing for Melo to go to training camp with the Knicks.

    Just drop it please, it’s over, the trade is not happening. Get Melo to camp, plan for next season and put an end to the shenanigans. If he decides he’d rather leave he can open up his list of teams, if not he’ll report to camp and play whatever role Hornacek wants.

    It’s getting to the point where I’m thinking if people like Woj and his sources aren’t just making shit up to stir the pot.

    I just took a look at the Nets roster and it’s not terrible (as in worst team in the league terrible.)

    Possible starters: Lin, Russell, Crabbe, Carroll, Mozgov
    Possible bench: Dinwiddie, Allen, Hollis-Jefferson, Booker, LeVert
    I can see Allen being good and moving into the starting lineup. Maybe RHJ starts over Crabbe or Russell.

    I think they win a bunch of trap games and finish maybe a little south of the 30-win mark. That might deny the Cavs that top-5 pick they crave and might even make dealing the Nets pick for Melo more of a possibility.

    Where did the idea that they are burning IT’s jersey over race come from? Antifa? 🙂

    I just called the Boston fans dumber than a rock for not being able to tell the difference between a player leaving as a FA or via trade, but if they are burning his jersey because he’s black (which I doubt very much because he was wildly popular there), then dumb is not appropriate word. I believe “scumbag” comes into play at that point.

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