Knicks Morning News (2017.06.14)

  • [SNY Knicks] French PG Frank Ntilikina says Knicks “would be a good thing for me”
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:47:06 PM)

    French PG Frank Ntilikina has been on the Knicks’ radar in the upcoming NBA draft, and the interest is mutual, according to Stefan Bondy of NY Daily News.

  • [SNY Knicks] Is Shaun Livingston a fit for the Knicks?
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:20:31 PM)

    Warriors PG Shaun Livingston, who made $5.7 million this season in the final year of a three-year contract, is set to become an unrestricted free agent.

  • [ESPN] Knicks get firsthand look at UNC’s Justin Jackson, who is on their radar
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 11:45:47 PM)

    Knicks get firsthand look at UNC’s Justin Jackson, who is on their radar

  • [ESPN] Rumor Central: Knicks, Frank Ntilikina have mutual interest
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:10:35 AM)

    Rumor Central: Knicks, Frank Ntilikina have mutual interest

  • [NYTimes] The N.B.A. Finals’ Big Moment Finds Andre Iguodala, an Unselfish Warrior
    (Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:05:08 AM)

    Iguodala, a former All-Star, came off the bench to score 20 points as Golden State claimed the championship in Game 5 against the Cleveland Cavaliers.

  • [NYTimes] After Loss, LeBron James Faces the Future: The Warriors Are ‘Built to Last’
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 1:46:07 PM)

    After Cleveland’s loss to Golden State in Game 5 of the N.B.A. finals, James acknowledged that the Warriors “don’t show any signs of slowing down.”

  • [NYTimes] Will Warriors Visit the White House? First, They Have to Be Invited
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:06:55 PM)

    On Tuesday, the N.B.A. champions said no decision had been made, despite unattributed reports to the contrary on Twitter.

  • [NYTimes] Dennis Rodman, Frequent Visitor to North Korea, Is Back
    (Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:01:18 AM)

    Mr. Rodman, the ex-N.B.A. star who once held Kim Jong-un’s newborn daughter, announced his return to the North on Twitter but did not say what he was doing there.

  • [NYTimes] How the Warriors Won Another N.B.A. Championship (and Built a Dynasty)
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:29:08 PM)

    The Warriors won their second title in three years behind the hot shooting of Kevin Durant, who they signed after losing to the Cavaliers last year.

  • [NYPost] Ever-smiling Kentucky star with sweet stroke could fall to Knicks
    (Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:36:30 AM)

    The smooth jump shot jumps out. So does the next-level athleticism. And the NBA Jam flaming-hoop hot streak. But talk to those who have played with or against Malik Monk, and have coached him or watched him closely, and the first thing that comes to mind is that smile. It’s not an egotistical smile. It’s…

  • [NYPost] The Knicks’ draft workouts are different than the rest of NBA’s
    (Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:30:04 PM)

    North Carolina’s championship-winning junior swingman Justin Jackson had participated in six NBA workouts prior to Tuesday’s visit to the Knicks’ Tarrytown compound. This one — off the bat — felt different. “It was more teaching than all the other ones,’’ Jackson told The Post in a phone interview. “With the triangle and the other types…

  • 86 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.14)”

    Is it just me or is Phil seemingly much more involved in the draft process this year? He seems to have been at more pro days and other workouts than was reported in previous years.

    I take this as a good thing. One thing that annoyed me so much about Phil was how he was getting paid $12MM/year and talked with such a sense of entitlement because of his previous coaching success, yet didn’t seem to be putting the work in as an executive.

    The whole “Hornacek running workouts” but with Phil “interjecting with teaching points” thing still seems a little weird, but hard to know whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

    8 days left…

    Meanwhile, wtf was with that quote from Justin Jackson that he heard the Knicks might be trading down to get him? I really hope that is not a real thing.

    I feel we could somehow manage to pick up Frank/Smith, one of Jackson/Mitchell/Kennard/Anunoby, and then get a late first or early 2nd for Jawun Evans. I’d be ecstatic

    I’d also seriously think about picking Jawun Evans if we only got one more first in the 15-20 range–I think he’s very underrated.

    Players I hope we pick at our current draft positions:
    8: Frank (if Gaines is a believer), Smith, Isaac (miracle)
    44: Sindarius Thornwell
    58: LJ Peak/Aleksandr Vezenkov/Wes Iwundu

    I really like Evans and acknowledge our backcourt and wing is in way more need of talent and depth than our frontcourt, but if we picked up a late 1st and we had already picked a guard or wing at 8 then I’d pick D.J. Wilson if he’s on the board. He’s a late bloomer, but his physical tools and skill set is very similar to Isaac and he gives us a lot of defensive versatility moving forward.

    @3 – Yeah, I can’t imagine Isaac getting past John Hammond and the Magic.

    The thing about Frank that makes him polarizing is that you’re essentially gambling on whether or not his frame fills out–i feel confident that it will given the way it looks, but these things are difficult to predict with any degree of certainty. If he fills out and gets more explosive, you have a multipositional giannis type player. If he doesn’t, his ceiling is a nice 3 and D off guard, which to me is good value at 8 but I can understand why others might be disappointed if you were hoping for a star.

    I discount his poor stats as mostly due to age and playing professionally in Europe and I think he’ll be able to hang in the NBA as he grows older. He’s a tough sell by traditional draft metrics however

    i don’t think smith falls past the magic… it seems like he got a promise there… and i don’t think isaac falls past the wolves since he’s an obvious fit… unless monk starts wow’ing some ppl i think there’s a good chance that we’re left with the pupu platter…

    we really should be kicking the tires with zach collins… and i do think if we’re really going to take a chance on a raw defensive stopper type it should be for anunoby and not frank…

    and frank has a lot of concerns other than his frame…. his dribbling ability is very much in question if he’s going to play pg .. and it’s the main reason why he’s basically playing sg in france.. his handle is both high and loose… and that’s not a good combination to have at this stage in your career…

    His handle is loose but he’s got an array of hesitation and crossover moves that he’s able to regularly do despite the high dribble. Obviously it’s not A+ handle or anything, but he’s able to function at the point w the handle he currently has–this can change with age, as well. I see him as a secondary ball handler at this moment, who has the skills to be primary ball handler if he, tightens up the aforementioned loose handle. I think he’s playing SG bc euro coaches are loath to give young guys the keys.

    I’d be totally fine with drafting both Frank and OG, if we had the picks. If we get a 15ish pick I want OG, Justin, or Kennard (who might be able to play a little bit of point himself even though he’s primarily a sg.)

    I’ve watched Frank in 2 full games so far and his offensive game is so far away from being a factor on that side of the ball. His shot mechanics are good and he’s a very good spot up threat, but his ability to dribble penetrate, run a PNR effectively or provide a threat off ball and curl off screens and catch and shoot fluidly are all minimal currently.

    Defensively the hype is real, but the risk with him offensively is significant. In many ways he reminds me of Exum although his perimeter shot is much better than Exum’s was when he came into the league or even what it is currently.

    The reason I’m in favor of Ntilikina (and also Isaac) is that this team and this franchise really needs to start thinking about the defensive side of the ball. By all reports, he is probably the best or 2nd best perimeter defender prospect in this draft (behind Fox maybe although hard to compare since he’s a completely different body-type) — not just on-ball defense but also defensive awareness off-ball. He’ll be big enough to guard 1-3 eventually, and possibly even 1-4. He looks to be a really good shooter with a ton of upside physically. I’m also happy with the idea that he’ll take a while to develop, because it would be totally fine with me if we sucked next year.

    Re: his dribbling – that seems like something that can get better with practice, no? I mean look at Steph Curry’s handle now compared to what it was 5 years ago – not even close. Or even KP in year 1 vs year 2.

    That said – I’d be fine with drafting Dennis Smith. I don’t think we will, though. There’s still this weird story about how he had dinner with the Knicks then didn’t work out after. The fact we’ve heard nothing about a reason since (like he was sick or whatever) makes me wonder whether one side or the other was so turned off by the conversation at dinner that they didn’t even bother with the workout. I could see it either way — Smith had a bad attitude about the triangle and so Phil said forget it, or Smith heard what they wanted him to do and his agent said that that wouldn’t be a good fit for him and skip the workout.

    which do we need more offense or defense? thats the choice with frank vs. smith

    by the way why is there a comparison with Dante Exum, other than that they are both big guards who played internationally? As far as I can tell, Frank’s major (and only) offensive strength is his shooting. Doesn’t get to the rim well, not particularly explosive. From what I’ve read of Exum pre-draft, he couldn’t shoot, but was great with the dribble and explosive getting to the rim. And Exum wasn’t thought of as a good defender.

    I dunno – assuming his shooting is real, I feel like the floor for Frank is pretty high. Unselfish on offense, good on- and off-ball on defense, can shoot the 3. Every team can use that. DSJ on the other hand pretty much has to have the ball in his hands, and has the floor of being a guy who scores a ton of points, alienates his teammates, and mails it in on D (ie. what he did at NC state).

    which do we need more offense or defense? thats the choice with frank vs. smith

    considering our 15 year average ranking on defense is probably 29th or 30th, I’d say pretty clearly we need D more than O.


    You also have to take into account which player has the greater chance to improve their weakness.

    I think Smith has more defensive potential than Frank has offensive potential.

    I’m on team Frank. I want defense and his versatility is very intriguing. I didn’t watch his game yesterday but I was reading through the comments on P and T from people who were and there was a lot of excitement about his defense and also people really noticed when he sat down how much worse their defense got. The fact that he can shoot all ready is promising too. A really good 3 and D wing player would go a long way for us. And he’s the youngest prospect in the draft. Also, not for nothing, but I like the place where these euro prospects come from because they tend to be less “me” oriented and more “team” oriented. From what I have read he has a high ball IQ too.

    Obviously a home run all star player would be nice. But getting that lock down defender who is a good shooter too and could develop into a PG role eventually. I mean…I will take that. Plus as others have mentioned, the fact that he’s gonna take time to develop is a good thing. It means we can suck again this year and get another high draft pick.

    I think Smith has more defensive potential than Frank has offensive potential.

    mmmm… not sure about that. Smith will always have his size as a problem on defense. In the entire league, I can only think of 2 Smith-sized PGs that are good defenders – CP3 and Lowry, and both have been great defenders from the beginning — ie. they didn’t have to learn to be motivated on defense in the pros. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a case of someone who was generally indifferent on defense suddenly becoming a good defender.


    Where have you seen reports of DSjr alienating his teammates?

    I think DSjr gets a bad rap as a selfish player when he had a better ast% than Fox on a slightly lower usg rt. He is also seems to be a smart dude to make the decision to graduate early and enroll in college when he could have stayed in H.S.

    To me he is probably another Damian Lillard if his defense doesn’t pick up but if his stl rt transfers and he picks up his D he becomes a cross between Lillard and Lowry.


    i think its the other way around; if frank learns to get to the rim(he has the athleticism) and play PNR with WHG and KP (easy offense) sky is the limit plus he has a range.
    one thing I read about that about Smith that i dont like, “he takes plays off defensively”…
    if anything has been the problem with melo and rose as leaders is defensive heart; so no I dont think he can learn the defense as easily as frank could learn to play ‘O’… im going frank.

    @21 – various outlets have reported that he had attitude issues in high school and college. Maybe I extrapolated that into alienating teammates — I looked for articles about that but couldn’t find it.

    by the way why is there a comparison with Dante Exum, other than that they are both big guards who played internationally?

    Because both are big PGs that hadn’t been seen very much at all before being drafted and Exum’s explosiveness in getting to the rim was more myth than reality, which was evident when he started playing in the NBA. They both came in very raw and with limited handle for primary ball handler. Frank can shoot though, which Exum couldn’t and still can’t. The comparison makes a lot of sense to me given the relative unknowns about both guys.

    One quirk with Frank I’ve noticed is that when he does look to drive or run a PNR, which is rare, he always does it going to the left. If he goes right it’s been a mid-range pull up or, much more frequently, a kick out to the perimeter.

    Are you people committed to defense? Because all I read here are incessant complaints about how our backcourt defense is pure trash. Ntilikina is the guy.

    One guy that I think is woefully underrated on the Warriors is Iggy. He is the ultimate swiss army knife kind of player, very similar to Draymond. The Cavs had no answer for him, and that is a big part of the gap between the two teams.

    Patrick beverly is another similar size player although I think Beverely and Paul had longer wingspans. I believe Lowry is closer to DSjr wingspan but if DSjr playing weight is accurate I think his compact build is going to help him. Also his last reported measurements are from 3 years ago so who knows what his measurements are really are. Would people think diffeerently of him if he had a 6’4.5 wingspan instead of a 6’3 wingspan? Also, Curry is an indeferent defender but chips in with steals but I think Smith’s stronger frame can help him develop into a better defender although I am pretty sure he won’t have Curry’s offense to make you forget about his shortcomings.

    Has there ever been a good short nba player that didn’t have attitude problems? Lol. Lowry, Paul(numerous groin punches), and boatload of other short guards seem to have that issue.

    Just to play devil’s advocate on Ntikilina, how do we know he’s such a great defender when he plays in the French league? I mean, he’s guarding Pepe LePew, not John Wall.

    Just my 2 cents.

    curry definitely improved on his handling ability… but it’s alot more difficult to go from bad to passable than to go from good to great…. like if any of us were to try and be a pg at the nba level… we would probably never be able to do it… and we would never see court time because we can’t be trusted with the ball in our hands…

    now ntilikina is not quite like that… but being a nba pg means you need some level of creativity and various moves and quickness to get where you want to go, navigate the perimeter, the paint and on the break… it’s just pretty obvious that there is a wide difference between him and someone like smith or fox.. and they all happen to be the same age…

    the lower you go on the position spectrum… the more you have to value skills…. isaiah thomas does not compare to frank in terms of physical ability but has the skills to do what he wants to do on the court… and you go down the list of top pg’s in the nba.. and height and length is no where to be found… there’s wall and george but that’s about it… in fact… the tallest guys are some of the worst pg’s in the nba… livingston, exum, smart, mcw… there’s a good case to be made that being tall actually works to your disadvantage and that offensive ability should be weighted more heavily than defensive ability…

    the tallest guys are some of the worst pg’s in the nba…

    This only makes sense for Frank if you accept that PG is the only position he can play.

    @17 Haha – JR “likes” on Instagram a photo that suggests he could play with Carmelo who he likes, respects, and has played with twice.


    I have silly Carmelo trade idea involving the Knicks, Cavs, and Trailblazers.

    NY receives – Turner, Leonard, Shump, #20 pick, #26 pick, and Cavs 2021 protected 1st(probably similar to the Dallas/Phi(Noel trade)

    Por receives – Thompson, Frye, Jefferson, #44 pick, and #58 pick

    Cle receives – Melo, Lee, and Harkless.

    I think this could possibly help all teams. NY will add picks for taking on salary and move on from Melo.

    The Blazers save nearly $10m this year and another $7m+ the following summer while gaining a legit rebounder to platoon with Nurkic in Thompson and two hustle defenders in Shump and Jefferson. Plus they get two 2nd rd picks to play with.

    The Cavs get the Wings to match up with GSW. They improve their bench and team even though they lose a good rebounder.

    One caveat. If the Cavs make the trade can they then make a separate trade to fit O’Quinn in their trade exception? If so then I could see the Cavs giving up a 2021 protected 1st(probably similar to the Dallas/Phi(Noel trade) just in case the turn into a pumpkin after Lebron career is over

    Love becomes their center. They are basically a “small ball” team. Or, they just add a cheap vet looking for a ring.

    I like the trade for the Knicks, but I’m not sure I’d do it as the Blazers. I guess it depends on how badly they want to get rid of Turner.

    Dennis Smith vs Frank Ntilikina is a pretty interesting debate.

    On the one hand, I’m so sick of watching the Knicks play horseshit defense that I’m cool with going for the dude that has tremendous defensive upside. On the other hand, I’m so sick of watching the Knicks get horseshit point guard play that I’m cool with going for the dude who looks like he might be able to supplant the mighty Ray Felton as the best Knick PG recent memory.

    So, uh, that’s a win-win?

    Giannis is a pretty good pg. So was Magic. And Livingston is good as well even though he’s ultimately a role player.

    Obviously Frank isn’t gonna be them but there’ a precedent of tall players being good PGs *if* they have the explosiveness to get to the rim. Which is why taking Frank is gambling on him developing his frame

    The nice thing is that if he plays the 2 guard long term, these issues go away and he can be allowed to thrive as a 3 and d wing, which I think is well within his currently projectable abilities

    I think DSjr gets a bad rap as a selfish player when he had a better ast% than Fox on a slightly lower usg rt.

    Be careful not to confuse assists with unselfishness. Rondo was Top 8 in the league in Ast% each of the last 3 years but is considered a selfish PG because he holds the ball forever and grinds the offense to a halt while he waits for someone to get open so he can get the assist. Marbury (who seems like a good comp for DSJr) averaged at least 7.6 apg for 9 straight seasons, but we all know he was a pretty selfish offensive player.

    The 2014 champion Spurs had one of the most beautiful offenses ever, with incredible ball movement that led to a million open shots. They inspired the 2015-17 Warriors offense, with way less offensive talent. Yet their assist leader was Parker with 5.7 apg.

    There’s a value to guys who keep the ball moving and keep the defense scrambling, even if their pass doesn’t directly set up a shot. I’m not saying Frank is better at that than Smith, but it’s something worth considering, even if Smith is better at creating assists than Frank.

    This only makes sense for Frank if you accept that PG is the only position he can play.

    that’s the thing.. how much value does he have if he’s just a SG? that also has a slew of benchmark level of skills that he will need… prime among them is scoring… and he also doesn’t demonstrate that ability…

    all this is based on projection.. what he could be… but what he could be is very much informed by how good he is now… he’s the same age as most prospects in this draft… and the others have demonstrated much more than he has in terms of production and the variety of skills…. ntilikina has two skills… spot up shooting and defense…. skills that a slew of 2nd rd picks already have….

    There’s a value to guys who keep the ball moving and keep the defense scrambling, even if their pass doesn’t directly set up a shot.

    This is why I like Monk more than most

    They inspired the 2015-17 Warriors offense, with way less offensive talent. Yet their assist leader was Parker with 5.7 apg.

    That beautiful offense was 7th in the league in ORtg. Beautiful? Yes. Dominant? No. They won the championship because they had an even-better defense. #1 in SRS. They were the best overall team.

    It’s going to be Ntilikina , Monk or Mitchell and Justin Jackson if he’s on the board when a pick that are considering trading for comes up.

    They almost certainly like Ntilikina and Jackson. I think whether they take Ntilikina or not will be dependent on whether they can trade or sign a FA to become the starting PG because Frank is a long way away from being a starting PG (if ever). The team still needs a starting PG.

    If nothing else is available for starting PG, they may reach for Mitchell or roll the dice on Monk.

    I don’t think Smith is going to last past Minny, but if he does, the Knicks still may not take him. I don’t think he’s what they are looking for.

    Love becomes their center. They are basically a “small ball” team. Or, they just add a cheap vet looking for a ring.

    I like the trade for the Knicks, but I’m not sure I’d do it as the Blazers. I guess it depends on how badly they want to get rid of Turner.

    If they are able to slide O’quinn in their trade exception in a separate trade then I think they would be good at Center as long as they find a cheap backup. They basically use the GSW model and have O’Quinn in the Pachulia role. Maybe a Withey or Dedmon and buy a 2nd rd pick to get a big.

    It is a little stretch for the Blazers but Shump and Jefferson helps their defense and they actually add more shooting. Plus, while taking another look at Jefferson’s contract his last year is not guaranteed so he comes off the books next summer along with Frye.

    Frank becomes an even better choice if the Knicks are able to get either the 12th or 15th pick and draft Donovan Mitchell with it.

    Frank becomes an even better choice if the Knicks are able to get either the 12th or 15th pick and draft Donovan Mitchell with it.

    Yes. That works very well also, but it may be hard to both get that 12th pick and have him fall to them.

    It would be great if we could trade Melo to the Cavs for their 2020 and 2021 first round picks. That would be very Celtic of us.

    The Knicks will not be competing for a championship anytime soon, so I’m okay with Frank at PG learning on the job. Even if it takes 2-3 years before he gets it. Let’s face it: all of these guys are gonna need 2-3 years before they become strong/acceptable/viable NBA players.

    The real question is which is easier, fixing a questionable handle or changing a bad attitude.

    Why all the Giannis/Frank comparisons? Giannis was 6’9″ when he was drafted and obviously still growing (Draft Express said he grew three inches in 10 months between 17 and 18 yrs old) and already had very good ball skills but wasn’t a great shooter. Frank is 6’5″/6’6″, has a sloppy handle and shoots well. Frank seems more likely to be Thanasis with a three point shot and better passing skills (which would be pretty good) than Giannis who really is a freak. Giannis has probably the longest stride in the game- his first step isn’t that quick but it’s so long that- once he got strong enough to absorb a little contact and keep moving- it has the same effect. Frank won’t have that luxury. A 6’6″ Giannis isn’t Giannis.

    yeah frank looks a lot more like a tony snell or kcp type, or maybe a taller pat bev / avery bradley than a real life chimera like giannis

    Mark Cuban is now targeting both Holiday brothers in addition to Ntilikina. Why doesn’t he leave our players alone?

    Mark Cuban is now targeting both Holiday brothers in addition to Ntilikina. Why doesn’t he leave our players alone?

    If Mark Cuban is interested in them we should reconsider.

    DSJ in a 3 way tie for first in the DraftExpress top 100 in pace adjusted steals by PGs, He was an okay rebounder. He’s athletic and seems to be pretty strong, so there are some defensive tools there, but the little film I’ve seen shows him to be completely apathetic or totally unaware or both. I dunno how much of that is awful coaching, but I’ve seen a lot of guys who were going to get better on defense when they got NBA coaching who never improved.

    Get me Ntilikina and Kennard. I think Frank will get to the NBA and prove he belongs early enough, and he’ll be going to a team that has developed a Euro prospect in KP.

    A sleeper team for Frank is Orlando for the same reasons Isaac seems destined to be in Orlando.

    he’ll be going to a team that has developed a Euro prospect in KP.

    I wouldn’t really call sophomore-season treading water “development.”

    DX now has us drafting Cancar at #58, hopefully to replace the Cancer at #7.

    man that isaac news is semi-surprising…. so that puts the board at something like…

    1. celtics – fultz
    2. lakers – jackson
    3. sixers – ball/tatum
    4. suns – isaac
    5. kings – fox
    6. magic – smith
    7. twolves – ball?/tatum? /monk/markanen

    the unknowns so far are the sixers and wolves… i seriously hope the knicks get a chance to workout tatum…. but are ready to pick him without one…

    I still don’t get Tatum. He projects to be a solid scorer at good not great efficiency while playing average d

    What’s there to like in the guy

    I’m as big a proponent for box score statistics as a lot of guys, and KP’s sophomore season was not great. However, this is a kid that was looked at as 3-4 years from being a contributor, and it’s only been two. He’s two more rebounds and 1 less foul a game away from being an All Star. I think he’ll do just that and we’ll all be glad Phil Jackson did something right.

    I guess saying the Knicks developed a project Euro in KP is early and still far from true, but I believe in the kid.

    I’m not talking a huge amount of shit, but he’s not even close to where he needs to be to live up to the hype. If he’s going to be Dirk 2.0, he needs to put up .600 TS% on 25% USG. Then I will forgive his inability to rebound.

    Based on what options we already have and assuming Phil stands pat- I’m perfectly fine with leaving the draft with Ntilikina, Frank Mason, and Cameron Oliver. But..because it’s fun to speculate- I’d much rather leave the draft with Ntilikina, Mitchell, and Oliver. That would give us 3 young, plus atheletes with great measurables and a great defensive rep to build on. We need an injection of defense in the worst way. I do wonder why Phil hasn’t made a move yet in terms of a trade. Ideally, we’d make a trade with Detroit for the #12 so we’d have a shot at Mitchell, but who do we have to give them that would be worth it for them outside of KP or Willy? I doubt they’d want Willy with Drummond there if we did offer him up. KOQ for the 12th pick is a bit of a stretch and he’s a better fit on the Knicks than the Pistons. In fact, I think the only way to get the #12 pick is to take back Bobby Shmurda- who I wanted the team to draft instead of Desiigner lol. For those that don’t quite get it, I’m talkin about Jackson and Shump- I think Shmurda and Desiigner are their dopplegangers lol. In any case, Jackson wouldn’t be any better than Rose in our system unless he learned how to take better shots and started playing defense again. about swingin a deal for one of Portland’s 1sts and drafting Bradley(most likely at 15)? I think that would be good, especially if we have to move KOQ. I really don’t think Melo’s goin anywhere this season. If he does, Phil will have to convince Cleveland that they are better off trading Love for Melo and KOQ. That’s the only feasible Melo trade I see, unless he waives his NTC to go to some random playoff team rather than a contender. Miami would have to give up too much to make the numbers work. OKC would probably have to send a package built around Kanter. Everything other than Love for Melo looks yucky, so I think he finishes his contract as a Knick. Thanks, Phil!

    I’m not talking a huge amount of shit, but he’s not even close to where he needs to be to live up to the hype. If he’s going to be Dirk 2.0, he needs to put up .600 TS% on 25% USG. Then I will forgive his inability to rebound.

    tbf, Dirk put up a .600+ TS% 5 times in 19 seasons

    KP is going to be fine. He’s building core and lower body strength and working on developing a killer face up game this off season. In time he’ll be the franchise scorer we need and his defense will continue to improve as he understands what he can and cannot do in terms of fouls (and it would also help when our point guards can contain penetration). If he turns into an elite scorer and elite defender while Willy Hernangomez grabs 13 rebounds a game, I can’t find myself complaining too much.

    I’m coming around to Mitchell if he proves to have real pg skills. He’s one of the fastest guys in the draft and also has insane strength and length that will translate to the pros. He seems to have the best parts of Smith and Frank, except for the fairly average 3pt shooting, which it looks like he could improve on. Maybe he can be had at 12 with the Pistons pick? Or maybe you trade down to 10 with Sacto and grab their #34 in the process and take Swanigan or Wilson?

    Mitchell seems like Shump 2.0 with a slightly better shot and probably less in the way of playmaking skill (Shump at least played a lot of point in college). Both great athletes who really raised their stock at the combine but both two-foot jumpers which makes finishing around the rim tough when you don’t have time/space to gather. I do think Shump would have been a much better defender if he hadn’t blown out his knee- he forced a crazy amount of turnovers his first year- and maybe Mitchell turns out to be an all-nba type guy on that end but I’d be much more comfortable with him at 12 or 15 than at 8 where I still hope there’ll be someone (Fox, Isaac, Smith, Tatum) with a higher ceiling available. If we’re looking at him, Frank and Monk (which seems likely) it’s probably pick em.

    tbf, Dirk put up a .600+ TS% 5 times in 19 seasons

    Yes, but I’m talking relative to the league. The #1 team in 2001 (Jazz) had a .546 TS%. This year they’d be worse than league-average.

    If Porzingis never makes it to >.600 TS%, I don’t see how he can be a star player. Unless you’re Draymond Green, it’s basically a requirement to be considered elite.

    the thing to like about tatum… and for me love… is that he has a pretty diverse skillset.. he projects to be at least solid across the board…

    while jackson has an iffy jumpshot…. and isaac has positional and scoring concerns… tatum doesn’t really have any of those questions and he’s also over a year younger than jackson and 7 months younger than isaac…. he’s pretty young for this class and imo the most advanced at his position….

    yea he kinda looks like melo… but melo went to denver in an environment he was expected to lift up by himself… and his iso game while good is not on par with melo’s so he might not come with that supreme confidence to try and be the man all the time… if he comes on the knicks there’s still plenty of time to carve out the bad habits and refine his game…

    he really should be a consensus top 3 pick… and he might just get picked by the sixers anyway… but if he’s there.. there should be no hesitation to pick him at all….

    It is very difficult for me to watch film of Donovan Mitchell and not make Dwyane Wade comparisons. It’s always safe to bet that a prospect doesn’t turn into a Hall of Fame basketball player, but Mitchell just looks like he fits what we want to do on both ends.

    Shumpert was never a good shooter anywhere on the floor in college and had a significantly worse TS and efg than Mitchell. It’s hard to compare them with Mitchell playing mostly off the ball, but if Pitino says he’s a point guard, I believe him. And yes, before he hurt his knee, Shumpert was all-world on defense, but Mitchell has a more compact build, so I’m less worried about injury with him. You could look at the stats and say that Mitchell is a closer comp to Westbrook, but I don’t know if that’s who he is either.

    there’s a guy who did exactly what mitchell did, has similar measurables and has all the same weaknesses of finishing in traffic, questionable shot selection and decision-making…. and they went to the same school and came out at the same age…

    his name is terry rozier and mitchell is the latest iteration of that type of guard….

    Mitchell at 12 would be nice, but I can’t imagine Detroit even considering it unless the Knicks take back Jackson. He’s got 3 years left on his deal at 16-18m. Tough to swallow.

    Now, if they took LT in the deal to soften the blow a bit…they’d still save around 10-11m per year.

    Maybe LT and a 2nd rounder for Jackson and the #12 pick? Who knows? If not, keep talking to the Blazers.

    I place no faith in Pitino saying Mitchell is a point guard- It’s his job to get his guys drafted as high as possible in order to help him recruit. If Pitino really thought he was an NBA-caliber point guard he would have played him there. ‘m not saying he’d be an awful pick but I think expecting him to anything more than a Galloway type of point guard seems a stretch.

    We all know Malik Monk is destined to become a Knick so dunno why we are debating between Smith and Frank.

    Malik Monk and Justin Jackson would be a nightmare for me but at least I’d have a lot of film to dive into.

    Let’s hope we make some good picks next Thursday.

    The more I’ve read on Malik Monk I’ve actually come around on him. Considering we are picking 8th we could do alot worse than Monk.

    Yeah, at 8 everyone we’re apparently considering seems fine. They’ve all got upside with serious issues. The ramifications of Smith/Monk/Frank/whoever are 3-4 years in the future and no one knows what the landscape will look like then. Whoever Gaines thinks is best is fine. It’s not that high of a pick, we’re rolling the dice whatever we do. We’re probably okay at the 5, every other position is up for grabs.

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