Knicks Morning News (2017.06.03)

  • [ESPN] Sources: Some in Knicks’ front office would like to pursue trade for Ricky Rubio
    (Saturday, June 03, 2017 12:00:34 AM)

    Sources: Some in Knicks’ front office would like to pursue trade for Ricky Rubio

  • [ESPN] Oakley won’t accept deal; trial set for August
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 11:22:39 AM)

    Oakley won’t accept deal; trial set for August

  • [NYPost] Charles Oakley turns down plea deal in MSG melee
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 9:08:51 AM)

    Ex-Knick Charles Oakley refused a plea deal Friday for allegedly assaulting two Madison Square Garden security guards during a televised scuffle at a basketball game in February. Assistant District Attorney Ryan Lipes offered Oakley an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal — a deal that wouldn’t require him to admit any guilt. If the baller stayed…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks have spoken with Blazers about acquiring first-round pick
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 12:00:02 PM)

    The Knicks have spoken with the Trailblazers about acquiring one of Portland’s first-round picks in the upcoming NBA Draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Charles Oakley’s trial date set for August 4
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 10:00:03 AM)

    Former Knick Charles Oakley’s trial date stemming from his February incident at Madison Square Garden is scheduled for August 4.

  • [NY Newsday] Charles Oakley rejects offer, trial set to start Aug. 4
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 7:23:00 PM)

    Charles Oakley on Friday rejected an offer that could have led to the dismissal of his misdemeanor charges stemming from his February scuffle with Madison Square Garden security and instead agreed to take his case to trial Aug. 4.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Switching, Swarming and Suffocating: Warriors Defense Dominates
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 12:05:10 PM)

    The Warriors’ one-for-all activity and athleticism has been a less-celebrated constant during an extraordinary three-season run.

  • [NYTimes] W.N.B.A. Players’ Overseas Obligations Cramp Their Teams
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 11:28:56 PM)

    The Liberty will be losing two stars, Kia Vaughn and Epiphanny Prince, for most of June because they will be playing in the EuroBasket tournament.

  • [NYTimes] Jack McCloskey, Architect of Detroit Pistons’ ‘Bad Boys’ Teams, Dies at 91
    (Saturday, June 03, 2017 1:53:30 AM)

    By drafting and trading for rugged players like Dennis Rodman and Bill Laimbeer, Mr. McCloskey built a pugnacious squad that won two N.B.A. titles.

  • [NYTimes] Oakley Rejects Plea Bargain and Demands Day in Court
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 7:09:28 PM)

    Charles Oakley, the former Knicks star, declined a plea offer to dispose of assault charges stemming from an altercation at Madison Square Garden, insisting he wanted to go to trial.

  • [NYTimes] Rihanna vs. Apple Outshines Warriors vs. Cavs
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 6:14:45 PM)

    The pop sensation stole the spotlight Thursday night, drawing the attention of Kevin Durant, Jeff Van Gundy and Apple Music’s Eddy Cue.

  • [NYDN] Charles Oakley trial date set for heated MSG ejection assault rap
    (Friday, June 02, 2017 10:42:37 PM)

    “Mr. Oakley, run him to the ground, buddy!” a passerby fan shouted at him on his way into the courtroom.

  • 53 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.03)”

    Given Phil’s..stubbornness- how would Rubio change the offense? One would hope that if we do get Rubio that Phil would let Hornacek run his own offense, right? I love Rubio, but if we stick with the triangle, he’s a bad fit. The kid can’t shoot! Even if Willy and KP are the starters up front, having Rubio limits spacing- and I’m not sure if hes good enough defensively to make up for it. Past versions of the triangle had great defensive players to make up for some spacing. When he did have a guy down low who could demand double teams, he had a PG that could shoot. That makes me leery of Rubio on this roster. So I’m anxious to see how he changes the dynamics of the offense should we get him. It’s hard to believe he’s only 26..feels like he’s been in the league forever

    These Portland rumors have me nervous. At first, I was happy to hear them since I figured the trade would be something like Courtney Lee for one of their picks and bad contracts, which is sensible.

    Then I remembered how I was initially happy to hear the Rose rumors, as I thought no GM was actually dumb enough to trade assets for Derrick Rose so we’d be getting back assets while tanking with a shitty point guard for a year. That would’ve been smart, if unconventional.

    I feel like this could be another situation in which no one has the real trade figured out because no one thinks Phil, or anyone for that matter, is dumb enough to do it. Like, maybe we’re giving up assets for Evan Turner or some shit.

    I hope I’m wrong. I’ll be very happy if the trade is the mold most of us are hoping for (taking back bad contracts for picks) and will give Phil credit accordingly. It’s just very, very rare that the news breaks that way for us Knicks fans.

    Rubio would be fine in the Triangle. He’s a good mid-range shooter and gets fouled a lot. He also has experience playing in a very similar system in Adelman’s Corner Offense which shares the same strong side principles as the Triangle.

    We also run plenty of non-Triangle sets so he’ll be fine.

    from previous thread….

    Did you mean “Bargnani”?

    @108

    From day one on the Wages of Wins forum I argued that Bargnani wasn’t as bad as that model indicated. He played like a SF, drew big men outside, and helped with spacing, but that model weighs rebounding by bigs so heavily, if you don’t, you rate as a total dreg.

    Like I said, the offset to extra spacing IS less rebounding, but the rebounding (or the lack of it) IS counted in the boxscore, the positive impact of extra spacing for the rest of the team is not.

    IMO, it might make sense to consider a new metric that looks at 3 point attempts and 3p% as an independent variable from scoring in order to estimate how much value a players adds due to the extra spacing be creates. Then you could redo the weights of most boxscore models. That would better reflect reality and why so many teams are trying to stretch the floor.

    Now of course, Bargnani was a horrid rebounder, soft defensively, and after he started getting injured, he wasn’t even a good outside shooter anymore. So he was a terrible player at the end. But there’s a difference between saying the Bargnani in Toronto wasn’t a good player and saying he was the worst player in the NBA. That latter view is false. He wasn’t very good, but he wasn’t the worst player in the NBA either.

    I remember seeing some boxscores towards the end of the season where Rubio scored a bunch of points and made a bunch of threes. Is he figuring out how to shoot them?

    Mark Jackson speaking hyperbolically during the finals doesn’t make Thompson “overrated”. Not being “the best two-way player” doesn’t mean he’s not an elite two way player, which I think is pretty easy to argue that he is, much like Pippen was an elite two-way player.

    It’s admittedly hard to say how a player is “rated” in the first place, unless it’s an obvious case like DeRozan. But Klay Thompson has made three straight all-star games and was on an all-NBA team two of the last three years. He got 14 all-NBA votes this year and Mike Conley got zero. Mike Conley had a better year than Klay and I don’t think it was close. In 2015-16 he made an All-NBA team over James Harden; this is a crazy thing. I don’t think the Rockets want to find out what happens if they swap Harden for Klay.

    Klay is a really good player, but I think the Pippen comparison is a mile off. Pippen was, and I can’t really back this up, a special, disruptive, change-the-game defender. He could do what Klay does so well but also help onto almost any player on the court and create more turnovers and transition chances than any player in the league. He could help at the rim, which Thompson really can’t. Pippen guarded Magic, Barkley, Reggie Miller, Chris Webber and John Stockton. He was maybe the only guy in the world (Rodman) who could switch between Stockton and Malone and also get a chase down block against Bryon Russell. Klay is just not in that universe.

    A smart basketball fan calling Klay much like Pippen as an elite two-way player is a good argument itself that he is overrated. It’s like saying Derrick Mckey was an elite two-way player much like Kawhi. There is elite and then there’s elite.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1YchiFv-5M

    Now of course, Bargnani was a horrid rebounder, soft defensively, and after he started getting injured, he wasn’t even a good outside shooter anymore. So he was a terrible player at the end. But there’s a difference between saying the Bargnani in Toronto wasn’t a good player and saying he was the worst player in the NBA. That latter view is false. He wasn’t very good, but he wasn’t the worst player in the NBA either.

    lolllllllllllllll

    Speaking of floor spacing bigs, why is nobody talking about Lauri Markkanen to Minnesota? He’s the best power forward in the draft and fits perfectly between Wiggins and Towns (especially if you’re not paying attention to what they do defensively). I think he makes more sense than Isaac there as Isaac is going to play the 3 full time in the NBA with his ball handle and shooting range. It’s probably more likely that Isaac is there at 8 than people are projecting. As we get closer to the draft, it should probably end up looking like:

    Fultz
    Ball
    Jackson
    Tatum
    Fox
    Smith Jr
    Markkanen

    Which leaves us Monk, Collins, Isaac, Mitchell, and Ntilikina. We could grab Isaac here and then trade back into pick 12 to take Mitchell or Ntilikina there. That would be a slam dunk draft. Ntilikina may even slip to pick 15.

    @8 I like the way you think. Even if we don’t trade for pick #12 there seem to be so many good young guards in this draft that we could just grab 2 of them in the 2nd round. We have to ask ourselves if Ntilikina is that much better than Monte Morris, Derrick White, Frank Mason, Josh Hart, Thornwell, Sumner, Frank Jackson, PJ Dozier, Nigel Williams Goss, Mushidi, Kobi Simmons, Wesley Iwundu and Tyler Dorsey. If he isn’t then we might be better off taking Isaac or even Collins or OG or Giles if we deem them to be BPA.

    I’m not as optimistic as you are Massive. Isaac seems like a guy Thibs would fall in love with.

    Interesting that both DraftExpress and Tankathon have Monk and Isaac going at picks 6 and 7 (although in reverse order) and both have us selecting DSJr at pick #8 with Ntilikina still on the board.

    We have to hope for an outlier selection like Collins or Markkanen (or even Ntilikina) going higher than expected for us to have a chance at Isaac.

    Isaac will not fall to us. He is destined to be picked #7 by Minnesota.

    #DolansRazor

    How come Giles is not a top 10 pick? His defensive potential is amazing and he seems like he’d be OK offensively. Is his injury history that alarming?

    He was only alright at Duke and didn’t look fully back to preinjury form so teams are worried that he’s lost it permanently. I think that worry is a bit overstated

    He’s a great pick to swing for the fences on imo.

    He’s a great pick to swing for the fences on imo.

    If the Knicks can somehow get into the mid first round and he’s there that’s a huge A+ draft in my book, and I don’t even care who’s going to be there for them at 8.

    @13 Thanks for the link. Dennis Smith’s an anklebreaker. It says so right here:

    “His hesitations, jabs, crosses and step-backs create vast space for jumpers and wobble defenders’ ankles as he makes aggressive drives to the cup. He draws plenty of contact (6.3 free throws attempted per game), and his burly build (6’3″, 195 lbs) helps him absorb the blows.”

    Sign me up.
    Wait. The writer chose Ntilikina. What to do?

    Sad news about Chris Bosh. He still had game left (on the offensive end). He’ll be a much better broadcaster to listen to than Mark Jackson and the dummies on TNT.

    Who would you want? D.Russel, Eldrid Payton, or Emmanuel Mudiay?
    According tomespn article, big guards takes time to develop. Considering how bad mudiay is, you can compare his first year to first year of the other two. If we can take any of this 3, I’m in.

    Who would you want? D.Russel, Eldrid Payton, or Emmanuel Mudiay?
    According tomespn article, big guards takes time to develop. Considering how bad mudiay is, you can compare his first year to first year of the other two. If we can take any of this 3, I’m in.

    Is Tony Wroten available?

    Mudiay is the best if we want to tank for Luka Doncic next year

    I want Luka Doncic

    I wonder if we could work out a trade with Minny where we give them Lee and we get Rubio and their promise not to select Isaac? That would be a score.

    Trying to scout the box score of an 18-year old playing against adults in the French Pro A league is a difficult endeavor. There’s just a lot to try to translate there– the relative strength of the league, the strength of the players in that league, Ntilikina’s role… I honestly don’t know how much there is to really learn from the kid’s stat line, and I’m firmly in the stats-based camp. The good news is that whatever the Knicks are doing as far as European scouting seems to be working pretty well. They might have whiffed on Thanasis and Louis Layberie but they hit big on Staps and Willy H, and that is a pretty solid ratio.

    If Clarence Gaines likes Ntilikina, that means more to me than his box score line.

    Draft night has always been a good night to be a Knicks fan. Even if we don’t draft an All Star we always seem to pick a guy who plays basketball for a decade.

    Agreed with JK, I defer to Gaines, at least when it comes to international prospects. His track record speaks for himself.

    I do think playing on an adult French team has depressed his numbers given the fact that euro teams are extremely hierarchical and rigid

    Idk tho, if you’re choosing on the basis of stats alone, he’s clearly inferior to a lot of other guys. He’s a guy who if picked you just have to trust that ur FO did proper due diligence

    Gaines doesn’t pick the draft picks. Phil does.

    It’s amazing that you can type with your tongue on Phil’s ass like that

    Has anyone questioned the veracity of the Rose-for-Rubio rumors?

    Stein reported that sources told him that the Knicks wanted “an additional piece” which caused the T-Wolves to reject the deal.

    Certainly all of this is possible in a negotiation between Jackson and Scott Layden but should it be accepted as fact.

    @31

    Gaines effectively picks the draft picks, he’s basically Phil’s most trusted advisor. He’s the best personnel decision phil has ever made anywhere he’s been.

    @32 You’re an adult aren’t you? Try acting like one, lowlife.

    Phil hired Gaines. Gaines gives input to Phil. Phil picks draft choices.

    Searching for stupid posts about Bargnani, instead stumbled upon a thread from 2012 where someone asked me how a team of “WP48 superstars” like Lin, Faried, Kawhi and Chandler would do as a starting five.

    Uh, I don’t know… conference finals contender?

    @27- often times that player plays for another team for most of that decade, and plays well, just not for the Knicks.

    Thoughts on the NBA finals.

    Anyone notice how much LBJ travels? I think he thinks you’re allowed to take three steps. The refs certainly have never taught him differently.

    Interesting that no one even bothered to guard Shumpert on his outside shots.

    Kyrie’s 10-22 with three assists was Rose-esque.

    CLE’s only chance is for LBJ to look to score the ball more. GSW is single teaming him and guarding shooters. He’s gonna need more than 15 shots. He’s not a great shooter but no one’s gonna be open unless he’s more of a credible threat.

    Lonzo Ball is going to fall in this year’s draft and it’s his father’s fault. Shame.

    Three steps is technically allowed if the first step is before the completion of a dribble

    The two step rule comes into effect after a dribble is finished.

    If these reports are true and Philly and LA are really passing on Ball because of his dad, then two things:

    1. They’re fucking idiots
    2. It makes me even more mad that we didn’t lose more games since it’s possible we could’ve gotten him with the fourth or fifth pick.

    Lonzo Ball’s best fit is in Sacramento anyway. Buddy Hield and WCS are better than all the Lakers and the Kings have draft picks moving forward.

    Lonzo is a weird player, but he’s been getting nitpicked to death by basketball media. He was the best freshman in the country by a wide margin-obviously doesn’t mean he’ll be the best pro, but Philly would be fucking nuts to pass with the third pick because his Dad is an asshole

    Fox worked out for the Lakers and others in L.A. Guess what. He still can’t shoot.

    So, uh, do we entertain trading up if Ball is available at 4 or 5? It seems like from reports that he’s always been our top target.

    What would we have to give up to Orlando or Sacto?

    How do you stop a team that can move their 7’0 small forward to PF when their 6’7 PF has foul trouble?

    Three steps is technically allowed if the first step is before the completion of a dribble

    um…

    What would we have to give up to Orlando or Sacto?

    We’ve two good young players, one of whom dumb teams like Orlando & Sacto probably don’t think is any good, and one who we’re probably not trading to move up. So future picks maybe?

    Comments are closed.