Knicks Morning News (2017.05.03)

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony could be a fit for the Clippers
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 1:00:56 PM)

    The Clippers were among the teams — along with the Celtics, Cavaliers, and others — who expressed interest in Anthony prior to this season’s trade deadline.

  • [NYDN] Three suspects nabbed in Cleanthony Early shooting, robbery
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 10:21:38 AM)

    Three suspects in the armed robbery and shooting of ex-Knick Cleanthony Early were arrested Tuesday — 16 months after the brazen holdup.

  • [NYTimes] Kenny Sears, Knicks’ Two-Time Leading Scorer, Is Dead at 83
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 8:39:52 PM)

    Sears, a 6-foot-9 forward who was with the Knicks for six full seasons, starting in 1955, was the first basketball player to appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

  • [NYTimes] Isaiah Thomas Passes 50 Points as Celtics Top Wizards
    (Wednesday, May 03, 2017 4:16:10 AM)

    Thomas scored 9 points in overtime, and 53 over all, as Boston took a two-games-to-none lead in the best-of-seven Eastern Conference semifinals.

  • [NYTimes] Cavaliers Crush Raptors in Eastern Conference Semifinal’s Opener
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 12:17:37 PM)

    LeBron James scored 35 points, Kyrie Irving added 24, and Cleveland, which had not played since April 23 after a four-game sweep of Indiana, won at home in Game 1.

  • [NYPost] Knicks eyeing 18-year-old point guard from France
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 11:25:14 PM)

    The last time the Knicks went French in the draft, it was a disaster, but times have changed since 1999. According to an NBA source, Knicks general manager Steve Mills jetted to France to catch 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina play Tuesday night for Strasbourg in a French League match against Nanterre. The 6-foot-5 Ntikilina…

  • [NY Newsday] Charles Oakley still angry at Knicks owner James Dolan
    (Tuesday, May 02, 2017 7:23:36 PM)

    Charles Oakley made it clear Tuesday that he is not ready to let bygones be bygones with Knicks owner James Dolan, three months after he was removed from Madison Square Garden against his will.

  • 60 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.05.03)”

    Cheers from Gibraltar U.K.
    How’s everyone doing these days?
    Missing the Knicks as much as I am?

    That NYPost article, combined with with the picture of peering Mills, is actually kinda peepy creepy.

    I hope that they’re not trying not to portray Knicks management as sexual predators. They have enough warts, but I don’t think that’s one of them.

    I was looking at yesterday’s thread, on the subject of Dwight Howard and WoW. And I looked at boxscoregeeks, and Houston substituted Dwight’s minutes with players with less WP48, and basically won 14 more games (This year, almost everybody in Houston raised their WP48). This is another proof that WP48 cannot separate the abilities of the players from the role they play.

    Dwight forces your team to play in a certain way, that may not the best for the team. Given the usual lack of ball movement in Knicks offense, perhaps catering to Dwight’s preferences would not the be the worst for the team (given that he helps in other areas); but I’d rather move Porzingis to C, get some kind of pass-first PG, and enjoy a more watchable brand of basketball.

    in all honesty, we need another tank year, then try to win in 2018-19.
    If I’m remembering correctly, that’ll be the year we have to decide on an extension for KP, which will destroy our cap space going forward. So I think (?) if we are good in 2018-19, that might allow us to sign some actually good free agents in the summer of 2019 before KP’s extension number sits on the cap.

    So in that sense, signing anyone over the age of 27-28 this summer probably makes zero sense as their prime physical years will be ending just as KP is really hitting his prime and we are getting ready to make a real push.

    I like Livingston, but he’s already 31. How long can those knees hold up? They’re being protected by him playing so few minutes in a bench role with GS.

    Ditto for Dwight. Why would we want his personality and more importantly, where he is in his career arc on this team?

    Tank it out one more year, pick up some 1 year stopgaps in FA, then go for it in 2018-19.

    Me and ptmilo repeatedly say this but WP is garbage. It has a worse fit to the RAPM data than PER, for god’s sake!

    Stick with BPM, VORP, WS/48, and RAPM/RPM.

    If Dwight was indeed the fourth best player in the league and the Knicks were in a position to compete you certainly take him. Neither premise is true, however. And his cancerous personality is a much tougher sell at lower (but still v good) levels of production especially given his age.

    The 2018 draft also looks quite good imo so I’d be quite happy with tanking one more year then going all in. I want Doncic.

    2018 should be all about dropping veteran deadweight, figuring out if KP is going to be as good as we all hope he is, and trying to collect assets for the future.

    As such – my 2017-18 GM planning would be:

    1) trade Melo for Rivers, Crawford, and at least the 2021 1st round pick + perhaps a 2020 or 2022 pick swap. Rivers is at least young and on an ok contract, has made improvement, and is theoretically at least an average defender. Crawford helps us tank in 2018. The Garden would love him (again). And those 2021-2022 LAC picks could be quite juicy, just when ideally speaking we would be hitting our stride as an actual contender again.

    2) find trade partners for Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas. I like both as players, but agree with many here that their timeline is not this team’s timeline. With how in-demand 3/D wings are in this league, we should be able to get at least cap relief + a 1st round pick for those two. Lee is 100x better than Bogdanovic, and he got the Nets a 1st rounder (although they had to take on a contract too).

    3) dump Rose

    4) draft Ntilikina or Fox, and if God forbid they’re not available, it might mean that someone like Isaac has fallen to us at 7. Stay away from Tatum, Markkanen, Monk. (I could actually be talked into Monk just because his shooting, whether off screens, off the dribble, or spot-up is so elite. Dudes who can shoot when wide open but can’t find shots any other way probably don’t translate as well, but Monk can find and make shots. And I don’t get the feeling that he’s as bad defensively as McCollum, but I could be wrong. He’s certainly a much better athlete than McCollum, so he should have some potential there).

    5) Draft some high floor 3/D wings in the 2nd round – Josh Hart, Wesley Iwundu, Thornwell come to mind.

    6) Figure out whether the Triangle was the problem or Rose/Melo were the problem. Only way to know is to go full Triangle without Rose and Melo.

    in all honesty, we need another tank year, then try to win in 2018-19.

    Yep. But will that happen? I have no clue.

    Let’s just assume that the point in the future where we ‘try to win’ or ‘make a push’ or whatever doesn’t happen the way we want it to. Then you can set your mind free on unlimited rebuilding and then WHEN you’re good, you know, you stop and you reassess.

    It’s not a given that KP is a superstar, especially given our track record of developing and keeping talent, as well as our ridiculously distracting franchise history. We need more, even if he is a superstar. Let’s keep building, and not have some arbitrary season as the season we try to ‘make a push’

    in all honesty, we need another tank year, then try to win in 2018-19.

    Yep. But will that happen? I have no clue.

    I mean, even if it’s not a purposeful “tank”, there’s really no way the Knicks won’t win fewer games next year, right? They’ve painted themselves into a corner, leaving them with only one way to ruin the rebuild (aka, trade draft picks).

    It’s not a given that KP is a superstar, especially given our track record of developing and keeping talent, as well as our ridiculously distracting franchise history. We need more, even if he is a superstar. Let’s keep building, and not have some arbitrary season as the season we try to ‘make a push’

    Oh sure, if they still look like shit this time next year, then you just keep on rebuilding until it looks like the team has a real chance at being good.

    I mean, even if it’s not a purposeful “tank”, there’s really no way the Knicks won’t win fewer games next year, right? They’ve painted themselves into a corner, leaving them with only one way to ruin the rebuild (aka, trade draft picks).

    I think that there’s a realistic chance that this team could win more games next year. They won’t be good, but they might win more games, especially if Jackson signs some more win-now guys. But hopefully they choose to rebuild.

    we def should be dumping melo and lee and probably koq for that matter…. it’s just really hard to find a trade partner…

    i do think we have a great opportunity to retool next year… the second round has a lot of underrated prospects and i think it’s possible to find at least two rotation guys in this draft if we don’t screw it up…

    if we come away with something like fox, hart, dillon brooks/devin robinson… this rebuild could go a bit faster….

    we will lose more games if phil signs more ‘win now’ guys….

    I think that there’s a realistic chance that this team could win more games next year. They won’t be good, but they might win more games, especially if Jackson signs some more win-now guys.

    “Win now” guys don’t exist.

    If we replace Melo and Rose with two players who don’t suck we could make the playoffs

    I seriously doubt we can finish higher than the Celtics, Raptors, Wizards, next years’ Bucks, and the Heat, and probably not the Hawks.

    The problem is, if Noah and Lance are healthy, we keep Lee and O’Quinn (and Melo) and we have a slightly better KP/WHG/Baker/Kuz young group, we have some not-horrible PG (or start Baker) next year, we can end up with a few more wins than this year, and end up 8-10 in the conference. Now that would suck.

    I do think we resign Rose, which would be good for the rebuild.

    Some pretty interesting Chris Paul stuff form Hoops Hype:

    Every year, units with Paul on the floor have been fantastic, and their most played lineups have always been one of the two or three best units in the league. The Clippers were 20.3 points per 100 possessions worse without Paul on the floor this season, larger than the margin between the best and worst team in the league in almost every season you can look up the statistics on.

    https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/859423229722677248/photo/1

    I was looking at yesterday’s thread, on the subject of Dwight Howard and WoW. And I looked at boxscoregeeks, and Houston substituted Dwight’s minutes with players with less WP48, and basically won 14 more games (This year, almost everybody in Houston raised their WP48). This is another proof that WP48 cannot separate the abilities of the players from the role they play.

    Did we need more proof? Obviously the way that, say, James Harden achieves a .600 TS% in 2016-17 is going to be different from how he did the same in 2014-15. His assist rate suggests a massive overhaul in the way basketball is being played. The Warriors team assist rate says the same.

    Generally I’d argue that basketball players are responsible for their own production, but there are certain offenses in the league that capitalize on player strengths by implementing a complementary offensive system.

    It has a worse fit to the RAPM data than PER, for god’s sake!

    I’m still waiting on the magic formula for RAPM to appear in text form. I am told that it’s the “best” stat we have, but what’s that supposed to mean? I know how WP48 is derived. Comparing it to a black-box stat isn’t very helpful to the discussion.

    @6 – YES! Except – I don’t think LAC is the right play for trading Melo. I still think maybe Chicago is an option, and I’d explore BOS deal of our pick and Melo for their pick, esp if they drop to 2 or 3 and might be more amenable…

    Me and ptmilo repeatedly say this but WP is garbage. It has a worse fit to the RAPM data than PER, for god’s sake!

    This is not a good theoretical argument. You are comparing one model (WP) to another model (RAPM) and assuming that since they don’t agree it’s WP that’s garbage. There is no proof that RAPM is any better than any number of other models in getting at the realities.

    A WP fan could easily flip that around and say RAPM sucks because it doesn’t fit with WP.

    I am not biased in this. I made the same argument against WP. The WP advocates used to argue that their model did a great job of identifying college players that would go on to become good pros. The problem was they were using the same model to evaluate pros that they used to evaluate college players. So all they were actually proving was that the skills they valued highly translated from college to the pro level, but not that the players were actually good .

    Now in my biased opinion I think WP is excellent, but it has one major flow they refuse to acknowledge. At the extremes of usage it breaks down a bit. It overvalues the high efficiency very low usage scorers and undervalues shot creation.

    For the record, Dwight Howard could have a .400 WP48 and I’d still be mortified if he became a Knick.

    If he ends up the starting C next year, we’ll probably make the playoffs and I’ll hate the team as much as I did this year.

    I think the Knicks could easily be quite good next year and still have a ton of upside if Jackson drafts well, trades Melo and gets back a piece, and gets a productive player or two in free agency.

    The Knicks won 31 games, but imo they were more like a 31-35 win team and wound up at the lower end due to a few last second shots and things like that that did not balance out over the course of the season. Call it 33. I think they can easily pick up 5-7 games swapping out Melo and Rose for a couple of productive players. We could easily see KP and WH add another 5-8 games on improvement. Then there’s still wild cards like our draft pick, guys like Randle/Baker, and the possibility of Noah not breaking down and giving us 70 productive games off the bench instead.

    If we do something really intelligent (like add Rubio and draft especially well), if everything breaks right, we could win high 40s next year and have a ton of upside from KP, WH, and the draft pick.

    I was looking at yesterday’s thread, on the subject of Dwight Howard and WoW. And I looked at boxscoregeeks, and Houston substituted Dwight’s minutes with players with less WP48, and basically won 14 more games (This year, almost everybody in Houston raised their WP48). This is another proof that WP48 cannot separate the abilities of the players from the role they play.

    Exactly which consolidate stat on earth predicted that those players would all play better when given a system that maximized their abilities?

    All these systems are the same.

    They measure what happened in the past. They do not do skill assessments, analyze how players fit together, or engage in intelligent team building. In fact, imo, if you are a smart GM, the idea would be to identify players whose stats are depressed because they are playing in the wrong system or not being utilized correctly. You might be able to get a player like that for under fair market value and improve his contribution by utilizing him correctly. Most coaches are fairly intelligent and some are brilliant. I’m not so sure that’s as easy to do as it sounds.

    Also, here are the top Rockets players in MP in 2015-16:

    Harden
    Ariza
    Howard
    Beverley
    Brewer (sucked)
    Capela
    Jason Terry (sucked)
    Ty Lawson (sucked)
    Terrence Jones (sucked)
    Thornton (sucked)

    2016-17:

    Harden
    Ariza
    Gordon
    Anderson
    Beverley
    Capela
    Dekker
    Nene
    Harrell
    Brewer (sucked harder)

    So half of the top-10 MP players in 2015-16 are no longer on the team, and one of them dropped several slots to be #10 in MP this year. But please, do tell me more about how it was Howard’s addition-by-subtraction that made the Rockets that much better.

    So half of the top-10 MP players in 2015-16 are no longer on the team, and one of them dropped several slots to be #10 in MP this year. But please, do tell me more about how it was Howard’s addition-by-subtraction that made the Rockets that much better.

    Several of the productive players from last year improved, but no doubt D’Antoni and Morey did an excellent job of adding pieces. They also probably noticed that there wasn’t much of a gap between Capela and Howard and decided they could give the younger and cheaper Capela more minutes without losing much short term.

    The Knicks could replace Melo and Rose with Rubio and Ingles this summer and be close to 15 games better right there. If Willy and KP improve, plus we get positive contribution from a rookie? 50 wins.

    If we do something really intelligent (like add Rubio and draft especially well), if everything breaks right, we could win high 40s next year and have a ton of upside from KP, WH, and the draft pick.

    You could say the same thing for almost any crummy team in the league. “If we just don’t make mistakes and acquire players who are good value at their salaries, and have our draft pick pan out, and get some good luck to boot, we could probably be pretty good.” That’s nice in theory, but in practice the person making the decisions is the same person making the decisions that made us a crummy team in the first place.

    The Knicks could replace Melo and Rose with Rubio and Ingles this summer and be close to 15 games better right there. If Willy and KP improve, plus we get positive contribution from a rookie? 50 wins.

    I agree.

    I don’t know why everyone is so depressed and hell bent on another all out tank. Yeah, Phil screwed up last off season, but they weren’t death blows. We have 2 good young pieces with upside, a lottery pick, enough cap space to pick up 1-2 productive players, and we may get back a productive player for Melo. That’s a lot of potential upside, not counting wildcards.

    Yeah, the Rose trade was bad, but we have the cap space back already. We may not get as good a value as Lopez in free agency, but as long as we pay a fair price for whoever we get it’s not a major downside. It’s marginal.

    Yeah, the Noah contract sucks and he’s coming off a bad year. But I think he was slowly getting more productive overall as his health and condition improved before he went down again with hamstrings and the knee. Shoulders and hamstrings are different than serious back or knee surgeries. I don’t think it’s impossible that he’s productive off the bench next year. His contract is bad, but it’s not a death blow.

    Those were bad moves, but not the kind of disasters Knicks fans are used to.

    That’s nice in theory, but in practice the person making the decisions is the same person making the decisions that made us a crummy team in the first place.

    It comes down to how much of last year you believe was an attempt to appease Melo while rebuilding and how much was Phil doing exactly what he thought was in the best interests of the team long term. If he’s past the “appease Melo while rebuilding phase”, then I think he might just make better deals. We have no reason to be concerned about his draft picks. So far he has done fine in that area.

    The Knicks could replace Melo and Rose with Rubio and Ingles this summer and be close to 15 games better right there. If Willy and KP improve, plus we get positive contribution from a rookie? 50 wins.

    This was my laugh of the day. Ingles and Rubio 15 wins lol. Has Ricky Rubio ever been on a team that won more than 30 games?

    This was my laugh of the day. Ingles and Rubio 15 wins lol. Has Ricky Rubio ever been on a team that won more than 30 games?

    Rubio HAS to be worth 3-5 wins over Rose and Ingles may be worth 3-5 wins over Melo on defense.

    …and Capela isn’t as much of a cry baby asshole bad teammate as Howard

    I think er is slowly turning to the Team Realist side. Welcome aboard, comrade.

    Cheers from Gibraltar U.K.
    How’s everyone doing these days?
    Missing the Knicks as much as I am?

    howdy reub…man, i really need to re-up on my geography…i had no idea gibralter belonged to the UK…sounds like a spectacularly place to be…

    don’t know how much of the playoffs you’re catching – but, the rockets, spurs series is about to get very interesting tonight…if the spurs play like they did on Monday – so long san antonio…

    nothing new with the knicks…just waiting for june 22…how ironical for it to be at the barclay’s center with the nyets having to give up that number one pick…

    i’m starting to worry though that soon there will be no other clubs in a worse dysfunctional condition organization wise than the knicks…that’ll suck when we can no longer laugh at the nyets, kings and lakers…

    travel safe sir…

    RAPM is just a ridge regressed form of APM. There’s nothing really black box to it–RPM has some black box stuff on top of it, though.

    The reason RAPM is used as a base of comparison for sample purposes is that it captures everything that goes on inside the sample–the sample, however is really limited (only abt 14 yrs worth of data.) RAPM as is doesn’t really say anything about any data outside said sample, but within sample it is uncontroversially the best publicly available representation of just what players were doing what–and it’s the best because it’s a plus-minus statistic with a lot of the kinks ironed out, which are always going to be better at capturing player contributions at the expense of explanatory and predictive power. This is why one good way of comparing box score metrics against one another is their fit to the RAPM data set.

    RAPM isn’t particularly useful on its own because it’s not super explanatory or predictive–I’m pretty sure this is where RPM tries to innovate on top of it (from what little we can glean about it there’s a lot of box score weighting in RPM at least from the posts where I’ve seen people try to reverse engineer it on Nylon Calculus and elsewhere.)

    This is a more common complaint about WP but the positional adjustments are kinda crazy–and not in a good way.

    Rubio HAS to be worth 3-5 wins over Rose and Ingles may be worth 3-5 wins over Melo on defense.

    and this = 15.

    By WS Melo and Rose “created” 7.7 wins this year.

    So to Ingles and Rubio add 15 wins more they should create 22.7.

    Assuming they play 2000 minutes each, we are talking about a .270 WS/48 production.

    It’s not going to happen…

    I think this just show us that there is no quick fix for this team.

    We will need superstar production from Melo’s and Rose’s replacements to be in the 45-50 territory.

    “Generally I’d argue that basketball players are responsible for their own production, but there are certain offenses in the league that capitalize on player strengths by implementing a complementary offensive system.”

    “For the record, Dwight Howard could have a .400 WP48 and I’d still be mortified if he became a Knick. If he ends up the starting C next year, we’ll probably make the playoffs and I’ll hate the team as much as I did this year.”

    Wait, whut??? Who the f is this, and what have you done with THCJ??

    How come our guys aren’t over in Russia scouting Milos Teodosic like the Nets are? We’re in desperate need of a pass first PG, and this guy is probably a better version of Ricky Rubio (although 4 years older) that we wouldn’t have to give up assets to get.

    But I guess Phil is too busy tweeting to bother with trivial stuff like this.

    I agree that the Knicks could be better next year, but I am not as optimistic as some of the posts above. Let’s say we do replace Rose and Melo, and get two reasonable players in return (one by trade for Melo, one by free agency with the Rose cap space). Our defense will probably be better, but I dont think our offense will be. Our offense might be worse. KP and WH should improve, but our rookie probably won’t make a positive contribution. Not that the rookie will be a bust, it’s just in the nature of rookies, especially point guards. If we do all these things, the team will probably be energetic and fun to watch snd have potential, but still win less than 40 games.

    i kind of doubt joakim will ever be productive in the nba again

    No one is talking about a Rose-Rubio trade. It’s kind of a win-win for the Wolves to make that trade: either Rose signs for what they’re willing to pay him (about 12MM, his approx. market value), or they’ve unloaded Rubio’s salary (14MM, 2 yrs) after drafting a cheaper pg/sg (I’m thinking Fox or Monk) to replace him.

    The Knicks get a veteran pg to mentor the pg most of us hope they’ll draft.

    and this = 15.

    I didn’t say 15. Someone else did. But based on Wins Produced 15 is about right.

    This is is a good example of where I think Wins Produced has an issue. Both Rubio and especially Ingles are low usage scorers of the type that imo WP tends to over rate a bit (more so Ingles). Plus putting them together might cause more issues. But the 6-10 wins I quoted seems perfectly reasonable. I may even be underestimating it.

    No one is talking about a Rose-Rubio trade. It’s kind of a win-win for the Wolves to make that trade: either Rose signs for what they’re willing to pay him (about 12MM, his approx. market value), or they’ve unloaded Rubio’s salary (14MM, 2 yrs) after drafting a cheaper pg/sg (I’m thinking Fox or Monk) to replace him.

    I love the idea of getting Rubio, but I was thinking more along the lines of trading Courtney Lee for him. Maybe the T-Wolves could use a veteran like Lee given all the young players they have now. I don’t see the Rose trade happening anymore because if the T-Wolves actually want Rose they can just sign him as a free agent and trade Rubio for another piece they want.

    By WS Melo and Rose “created” 7.7 wins this year.

    So to Ingles and Rubio add 15 wins more they should create 22.7.

    Assuming they play 2000 minutes each, we are talking about a .270 WS/48 production.

    It’s not going to happen…

    That assumes WS is allocating wins correctly. I think it is underestimating Rubio/Ingles and overestimating volume scorers like Melo/Rose.

    But assuming you want to use WS, the sum is 11.1.

    That assumes WS is allocating wins correctly. I think it is underestimating Rubio/Ingles and overestimating volume scorers like Melo/Rose.

    But assuming you want to use WS, the sum is 11.1.

    That’s still a .270 WS/48 season for both of them. You are also ignoring that neither of them had a season higher than 6.1 WS.

    Here is of players with a WS above 11 this season:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&year_min=2017&year_max=2017&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=ws&c1comp=gt&c1val=11.1&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws

    I’m not using WS as the truth BTW. It’s just a parameter. I just think that Ingles and Rubio are not adding 10 or 15 wins more for this team.

    Joe Ingles is 29 and coming off a career year fueled, at least in part, by shooting 44% from 3. He’s very unlikely to be that good next year, so whatever you think his value was this season you can’t just pencil him in for a repeat performance.

    Ricky Rubio and Joe Ingles are league average-ish players. I like them both well enough.

    You ain’t adding two league average-ish players to this team and getting it to 46 wins.

    Tony Parkers career may be over…….and it may lead to CP3 in San Antonio

    The Spurs might be better off without Tony, but you hate to see a guy end his career with an injury

    Kawhi is producing at nigh 2008-2009 playoffs Lebron levels right now and it’s simply mind blowing

    For the Wolves, a Rose-Rubio trade before July 1 (before Rose’s contract expires) would clear Rubio’ s 14MM contract off their books if they don’t sign Rose (and them renounce his Bird rights). For a team that’s already about 28MM UNDER next year’s estimated cap, that could mean being able to offer a max contract and still have enough for 1-2 quality role players.

    And if the Wolves can sign Rose to under 10MM, they’re still in the ballpark to offer a max contract. They’re not in a bad spot and they’d definitely gain by trading.

    Just saying.

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