Knicks Morning News (2017.03.19)

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks, Phil Jackson status report: Treading water after 3 seasons
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 7:21:17 PM)

    It was three years ago that these words were uttered — much to the delight of all Knicks fans:

  • [NYPost] ‘Next Rondo?’ Execs guess Derrick Rose’s free-agency future
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 5:55:39 PM)

    Free agency beckons this summer, but Derrick Rose doesn’t want to dwell on his future because he is still a Knick. But others have speculated on what Rose may find on the free-agent market, and a random sampling seemed in agreement. Rose won’t find what his status and history would suggest. “He’s the next Rondo…

  • [SNY Knicks] Phil Jackson’s three years as Knicks president have been roller coaster ride
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:43:26 PM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson celebrated his three-year anniversary in his position with the team, a tenure that has been marked by ups and downs.

  • [ESPN] Ringing in Phil Jackson’s Knicks’ anniversary with sounds of discord
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:53:35 AM)

    Ringing in Phil Jackson’s Knicks’ anniversary with sounds of discord

  • [NYDN] Ex-Knick Iman Shumpert says the Cavs ‘grabbed me out of hell’
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:16:38 PM)

    Iman Shumpert’s career has gone swimmingly since Phil Jackson and the Knicks traded him and J.R.

  • [NYDN] News’ Top 5 reasons Knicks are a ‘super’ bad team
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:15:16 PM)

    On July 22, Derrick Rose called the Knicks a “super team.” It was a lofty statement, to say the least.

  • [NYDN] Ex-Knick Baron Davis says team has ‘no real plan’
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 5:02:05 PM)

    Baron Davis sees the Knicks, his former team, in a long rut with “no real plan.”

  • [NYDN] Knicks broadcasting legend John Andariese wake to be held Monday
    (Saturday, March 18, 2017 1:52:45 PM)

    The wake for Knicks broadcasting legend John Andariese will be Monday from 5-9 p.m.

  • 88 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.03.19)”

    I got to see Isaac yesterday and he isn’t worthy of a top 7 choice. Although he moves well and has the reach he didn’t alter one shot and couldn’t get out to defend the perimeter in time. He was the team’s fifth option on offense and mostly passed the ball as soon as it touched his hands. He has no moves offensively and gets pushed around continuously.
    He seems to move well but always seemed to be behind the play. He seems lost on the court and reminded me of NDour.

    reminds me of Isaac from the Love Boat. He was probably the 4th option, depending on how you felt about Gopher.

    Lol! Give me Captain Steuben (as played by Dennis Smith if not by Ball) or Dr. Bricker (what a name…I guess Fox could play him well).

    I actually didn’t see Isaac’s girlfriend (but I’m sure she’s very nice). I also didn’t see much of an offensive game or any kind of defensive impact either. He’s long and fairly agile but he doesn’t know what he’s doing out there, is behind the play and gets pushed around. If and when he ever figures it out (and many haven’t) he might be a good player. He’s literally the last option on the team and couldn’t stop the three ball (always late getting there) and was overpowered inside by guards. He has a decent mid-range shot (the 2 or 3 times he was open enough to shoot it), creates zero offense on his own, and is pushed around by everybody (probably including his girlfriend). He does seem like a very hard worker and a team player so I’ll give him that.

    That being said, if he becomes a Knick I will root for him with all of my heart.

    Reub I’m glad you’re making a half hearted attempt at contributing something other than trolling, but it’s not Isaac’s fault that Dwayne “shitty version of Melo” Bacon freezes him out of the offense. I’ve seen a ton of their games this year and Isaac has been great at capitalizing on the few offensive opportunities he gets. I think it’s very possible that without Bacon, Isaac would have more volume scoring without much of an effect on his efficiency.

    It’s fair to wonder whether he has the mobility to guard NBA small forwards, but IMO his length alone should be enough to bother them. Besides, there are like six total good small forwards in the NBA now anyway (granted they make up a disproportionate share of the NBA’s best players).

    I think a reasonable comp is Gallinari with better defense and hopefully better health. That sounds like a pretty fuckin’ good player to me.

    I think Isaac will kind of break out once he gets his position in the pros be it PF or SF, ala Grant Hill. Maybe that’s a bad reference because Hill BLEW THE FUCK UP once he went to the NBA. I guess what I’m really trying to say is like Hill, he probably has alot more to his game and is bein held back a little by the current situation he’s in. Jeff Green stepped up once he got in the league, but that’s a bad comp cuz Green has proven to be overrated. I think (hope) he’s mobile enough to check SF’s, and if he can learn to effectively come off screens, and find spots on offense- he’ll make a good SF alongside KP & Willy. But we need a PG who actually sets his guys up well. Considering that, I am now probably higher on Ntilikina and even Fox depending on where we draft if both Isaac and either PG is available

    @7 Offering differing opinions is not trolling. It may seem that way to people who are somewhat closed minded and resistant to open discussions.

    It may seem that way to people who are somewhat closed minded and resistant to open discussions.

    You really, really, really shouldn’t be incredulous that people aren’t sure how to take your recent “pivot” from r/The_Donald basketball-fan cast-off to an actual, real-life contributor to the board. Take your lumps for poisoning the board with empty language for the last year, and you will eventually be accepted.


    But we need a PG who actually sets his guys up well. Considering that, I am now probably higher on Ntilikina and even Fox depending on where we draft if both Isaac and either PG is available

    Me, too, though a lot can still change. The workouts leading up to the draft can make a big difference, and obviously we still don’t know where the Knicks will pick, though 5-10 looks like the range.

    Dallas already won, which is good. A Sixers win would be huge.

    I know Reub sux and all, but man is it nauseating when the resident curmudgeon acts like the conscience of the KB dialogue.

    I got to see Isaac yesterday and he isn’t worthy of a top 7 choice.

    Oh good, the guy who is wrong about every single thing ever has weighed in on Jonathan Isaac. He doesn’t like Isaac but he thinks Dennis Smith is awesome. This is useful, because we now know for sure that Isaac is a great prospect and that Smith stinks.

    A loss tomorrow night puts us within a 1/2 game of Philly. Getting in front of them would be huge for the tank.

    Regarding rumors of the Knicks interest in Monk, he looks like an undersized SG to me and a highly likely bust.

    I’m sure Phil considers Monk to be a potential triangle point- terrible idea.

    I keep looking at the stats for the players listed near the top of the draft board for 2017 and I’m having a tough time figuring out why everyone thinks this is a very deep or strong guard draft. When we drafted Porzingis there were a bunch of players I thought had shown enough to eventually become stars. In this draft maybe Fultz and Ball look like good options at G, but after that IMO you are already getting either flawed players or wildcards at the G position.

    Monk is a total wild card. He may be the most skilled 2 in the draft, but also has a very low floor. If we were picking at #12-15 in this draft, I’d be happy to roll the dice on him. I think offensively he’ll be something like Jamal Crawford. The big question mark is his defense.

    Every player not named Kawhi Leonard is a flawed player. It’s not about nitpicking at a players’ flaws. It’s about seeing the potential in a guy along with his work ethic and if his flaws are too grave for him to become a productive NBA players. A guy like De’Aaron Fox is a great leader and defender already. He has the ability to turn into another John Wall, but will his jumper and right hand keep him from being successful? That’s up to a franchise to decide. Dennis Smith Jr is essentially a 6’3″ Isaiah Thomas, and you have to ask yourself if his knee will hold up or if his defense will make him a net negative player (and that’s very hard to argue considering the steals he gets you). Frank Ntilikina is a long term project whose ceiling is really high, but you have to do your research on if he will work hard enough to become the stud you’re gambling on.

    The draft will always be a crapshoot. Even in a year where LeBron, Melo, Wade, and Bosh get drafted you can end up with a Darko Milicic. In a year where Blake Griffin, James Harden, Ricky Rubio, and Steph Curry get drafted you can end up with Jordan Hill. It doesn’t take away from the overall strength of the class. Just because there aren’t a bunch of can’t miss prospects doesn’t mean you’re not better off with a top 5 pick in this draft as opposed to last year’s draft, the 2014 draft, and so on.

    A 6’3″ Isaiah Thomas is better than a 6’10” Maurice NDour. Or a 6’4″ Dr. Bricker.

    This Kentucky team would be so lost without De’Aaron at the helm

    It’s amazing how Cal manages to minimize the talents of his players season after season

    That Kentucky doesn’t just spread the floor and run 1/5 pnr’s every time down the court makes no sense.

    I like Fox but he is a ball dominant driving guard who doesn’t distribute hardly at all and doesn’t shoot well. Sound familiar?

    Seriously, Bam’s raw physicality makes him a perfect dive man off the pick and roll with someone as fast as De’Aaron handling the ball but Cal gonna Cal

    Dennis Smith is more like Rose than De’Aaron

    De’Aaron is faster than Rose but with less explosiveness and doesn’t rely on his leaping ability nearly as much. He’s an elite defender and a much better passer than Rose ever was and his usage is similar to Rose or Smith but he’s looking to pass when the opportunity is open rather than running into traffic over and over (where he’s a bit worse at finishing than Rose was or Smith is.) He’s also a high IQ player and a vocal leader on the court. Not really a good comp.

    Fox had 1 assist today, didn’t make a three, and missed 70% of his outside shots. Dennis Smith is MUCH better offensively and has nice form on his outside shot. Fox is drives and defense. Monk distributed better than he did today.

    My order for guards is Fultz, Ball, Smith, Frank and then Fox.

    Don’t get me wrong, if Fox could shoot like Smith or Frank I”d like him a lot more.

    Oh, and Monk has nice talent and shouldn’t be left out of the discussion. His form is superb, he can really pass the ball, and his last minute clutch block was good to see.

    @33 A better comp for Fox might actually be Rondo, except that Rondo distributes a lot better and is a better ball handler.

    It’s hard to get a read on Fox when I can’t tell what set, if any, Kentucky is running half of the time. I do think Fox has the potential to be a very good playmaking point even without a jumper a la Wall. And he’s clearly the best defender of all the college points (Frank might be better but who knows). Still, he looks like Elfrid Payton one minute and Westbrook the next so he’d be a bit of a gamble. But so would just about everybody not named Fultz and maybe Ball though I see a little too much D’Angelo Russell in Ball to consider him an absolute sure thing.

    Ntilikina is a hefty 9 for 16 on his 3 point shots (60%) over his last five games. 22 for 31 on his overall shooting (71%) over that same span of games. He doesn’t drive or get to the foul line at all, though. Frank has 1 total turnover over those five games.

    @27 Accidentank 2017

    I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. I just think the idea that this is a deep draft with a lot of terrific PG talent is not true based on what these players have shown to date and what I’ve seen at the top of other drafts.

    There are some drafts where you more or less know a bunch of guys are eventually going to wind up being starting NBA talent. So you are just trying to avoid the duds and figure out who is most likely to develop.

    I look at this one I could easily see only 2-3 guys winding up as starters and a bunch of them turning out to be busts.

    Monk is shooting 50% on 2pters, 39% on 3pters (taking 7 per game) and 82% from the FT line (59% TS on 27% usage). So you could see why he is considered a good shooting guard prospect but yeah he is just 6’3 and is averaging only 2 rebs and 2 asts per game.

    Monk and Markkanen are one and the same to me. They’re a lot of fun to watch and may very well have great NBA careers, but you should always wonder if the guy you draft could be a productive player even if he doesn’t turn out to be much of a scorer. There’s just very little correlation between college and NBA scoring, with other stats having a stronger one. Fox and Isaac could be productive without scoring, Monk and Markkanen likely could not. They’ll almost definitely both be able to carve out careers as spot up shooters as a worst case scenario, but that’s still a pretty low floor.

    I don’t understand the Miles Bridges hate. He’s the most physically impressive player of all the freshman. Are his stats that bad? Is he a good rebounder?

    I am super-impressed with Josh Jackson. His D needs work, but man, what a skillset! Any chance he goes higher than #3?

    I think he’s just representative of that Knicksy kind of luck where we win meaningless games and get our draft position and miss out on people like Curry, Towns etc

    I think he’s gonna be pretty good and he’s a fairly productive player in college but he has some question marks given that he’s something of a tweener and is very reliant on his three pointer for offensive production

    Most athletic player in the draft though and he does everything you want from a forward (rebound, pass, defend)

    Miles Bridges is a low-ceiling player. He will probably stick as a Wilson Chandler-type generic NBA forward but I don’t see a star or a big impact player. What position does he play in the NBA? He’s not all that skilled or fast to play the 3 and he’d be undersized against a lot of 4’s.

    It’s not that Bridges is terrible, because he’s not. The “hate” directed at him comes from the fact that he’d be a very disappointing return for a season that was essentially a tank job. If you tank and you end up with a Miles Bridges-caliber player, you have completely wasted a season.

    Miles Bridges is extremely likely to be a good basketball player, but his ball handle and weight makes me think his ceiling is an athletic Jared Dudley. I’d be pretty disappointed if that’s who we ended up with.

    And of course we’re gonna pass up on him and he will end up being a low to mid usage superstar while Dennis Smith Jr turns out to be the new high usage “you can’t measure how great he is with stats” guy when Melo leaves.


    There’s a chance if Fox or Tatum go on a tear but Jackson is kind of the consensus #3 pick from what I can tell

    I really like him despite the shooting issues (I also like Fox despite those issues incidentally)

    Ricky Rubio has 12 assists and 10 points on 50% shooting with 5 minutes left in the third

    We really should’ve managed to trade for him despite it hurting our tank

    We would’ve won a few more games and then drafted Frank as an off guard and we’d be in quite a nice spot

    @49 what shooting issues are you referring to? He shoots 38.5% from 3 and 54.8% from 2. He hasn’t been great from the line (55.8%) but that is very correctable.

    I am super-impressed with Josh Jackson. His D needs work, but man, what a skillset! Any chance he goes higher than #3?

    There’s a slight chance he leaps over Ball, but not a great chance. Especially if, say, Phoenix is drafting #2.

    I haven’t watched either Fultz or Ball much, and the DX videos are dated. Are they that sure fire? I remember during the tournament in 2015 that everyone seemed to think it would be stupid to pass on D’Angelo Russell…is either Fultz or Ball that kind of player? And Fultz is not in the tournament, does that potentially work against him?

    Josh Jackson is not the guy you want. He shoots too far away from his body and his handle is suspect. He’ll need to join a team where he can roam off the ball and catch defenses by surprise.

    I haven’t watched either Fultz or Ball much, and the DX videos are dated. Are they that sure fire? I remember during the tournament in 2015 that everyone seemed to think it would be stupid to pass on D’Angelo Russell…is either Fultz or Ball that kind of player? And Fultz is not in the tournament, does that potentially work against him?

    I don’t think it works against Fultz because I think people have already decided on him. Ball could disappoint like Russell, no doubt, but I think most teams think he’s worth the risk. Hell, you re-draft the 2015 draft and Russell probably still goes top five now. Heck, maybe even ahead of Billy. That’s how much people believe in Russell’s skills, and Ball is probably a little bit better now than Russell was then.

    BTW Kansas looks dynamite!

    It’s like a team with Kentucky-esque talent but real coaching.

    Ball’s got a little D’Angelo Russell in his game in that you have to wonder if he’s going to be able to get into the lane on a consistent basis in the pros. He’s better than Russell in the pnr game (and a better rebounder and playmaker overall) so I don’t think it’ll be a huge issue- I think it’s likely he turns out to be the best pro in the draft. Still, between that, his funky shot and his dad I could see him falling to three especially if he struggles against Fox again should UCLA win later today. I only saw a bit of Fultz but he looks like the prototypical lead guard- great court vision, solid handle and has proven he can score from anywhere on the floor. If I was picking first I’d probably go Fultz because he’s the safest pick.

    I know that highlight reels can be deceiving, but I just watched Fultz’s highlights and he looks ridiculously good, like there’s nothing that he can’t do. Yeah, he’s got to go #1.

    Markelle Fultz is amazing. If he went to a better basketball program (he probably didn’t think Marquesse Chriss was going to leave) he’d have ran the table in the tournament.

    Lonzo is better than Russell was on both sides of the ball. He reminds me of a Curry with better passing and worse handle with similar shooting skills despite his slower release

    He’s got the size advantage too and is competent on defense unlike Russell, Curry, or his other comps.

    he’s the clear #1 to me when you account for college productivity and skill set even though Fultz is maybe the “safer” or “more complete” pick (Ball is better on defense too and his intangibles are great tho.)

    He’s the best passer I think I’ve ever seen in college.

    As long as the bockers are in the top 7 I think they should be ok. Even the hated Miles Bridges is fine

    Also I didn’t know Jackson was shooting 39% from 3–last time I looked at his shooting was halfway through the season when it was like low 30s

    The free throw shooting is concerning to me because it might indicate that his three point prowess is the outlier since it’s quite rare to have a bad free throw shooter have an effective midrange/3 point game. He’s got a complete skill set otherwise and I think he’ll be quite good. Another slight concern is that he’s almost two years older than some other freshmen in this class.

    I don’t get the Steph Curry comparison, being that Steph is maybe the best pure shooter ever. But that aside, I agree that Ball looks pretty special, a Jason Kidd-type with maybe a better offensive game. But that is totally dependent on what’s between the ears and in the chest.

    The Steph Curry comparison is mainly because of their similar 3 point numbers on a similar number of attempts as well as their TS% similarity

    Like Curry he has unlimited range and is hyper efficient from midrange on. Unlike Curry he’s not *as* good at scoring in volume or getting into the lane due to his handle. They’re not exactly alike but their shooting prowess is similar, at least at the college level.

    I just don’t think you can pass up a 6-6 PG with a .675 TS% who averages 9 assists and 7 rebounds per 40. Those numbers are bona fide head turning.

    I can see the argument for Fultz though.

    I think Curry is just a freak. He’s 10X better of a pro than he was a college player, and nobody saw a 2X MVP run in his future. And without his freakish shooting ability (the quick release, ball skills and footwork are a big part of it) he’s be a below-average guard.

    Interestingly, he may wind up being only the 2nd best player from that crazy draft!

    But that kind of development is impossible to predict.

    As to Jackson’s age, I don’t think it matters very much. Players mature at different rates, and I have yet to see anything that suggests that 20yo’s are less likely to develop than 19yo’s. If we’re talking 22 or 23, yeah, but for the most part, either you are gonna be good or you aren’t. For example, Curry was 21 and developed more than anyone younger than him from that draft.

    Ball could turn out to be an amazing NBA player but I think you need to throw all of his shooting numbers out the window. He is going to need to completely reconfigure his shot if he ever wants to be anything other than a spot up shooter in the NBA. He already struggles on pull ups in college, put him against much better, bigger defenders in the NBA and his pull up goes completely away. Add to that his lack of a first step and I could see him struggling to run an offense in the half court. Plus I really worry about character issues. So far nothing has come up, but with his dad I worry about him being a bit of a primadonna and getting eaten alive by the NY press. I’d still love him but no way do I take him over Fultz or probably Issac and Jackson.

    Since I’m watching the SC Duke game I figured it an appropriate time to say that we should be looking at in Sindarius Thornwell in the second round. He’s a senior but his numbers are just absolutely insane, like, better than Josh Hart insane.

    Lonzo is clearly better based on productivity. I dunno about getting his shot off in the pros.

    The Nets are a freakish 7-11 when Lin and Lopez play together. I guess it does speak to the importance of point guard play, which might matter next season!

    Out of Fultz and Ball, you take the one you want and I’ll be happy with the one I get. Both will be great pros. And Josh would be a great consolation prize. Big drop-off after that, imo.

    I dunno, maybe its just me but Fox doesn’t make me salivate like the others here. His shot is spotty at best and he will get thrown around as bad in the NBA as Frank with this stick figure. Isaac’s a stud. Ball is a stud. But Fox isn’t there.

    I think it depends on how seriously you take his shooting woes

    I tend to be skeptical of prospects whose shooting is their calling card and likewise im skeptical about players whose main issue cited by scouts is his shooting especially when the FT% is good.

    If you think shooting is more important as a sign of future player productivity than I do I could see why you’re concerned about Fox but to me he’s about as complete a prospect outside the top 2-3 as you can get

    The way I rank them is Fultz and Ball are the two guys who like they will definitely be really good.

    Then you have Jackson as a reliably good NBA player who perfectly fits the mold of the modern NBA, which is why he’s so highly-ranked.

    Then you have the three interesting point guards, Isaac and Tatum. Tatum worries me, but he’s clearly a guy with NBA talent.

    Then you have Bridges, Monk and Markkanen, who all seem like they can play in the NBA, but I just don’t like their upsides.

    So since the Knicks likely won’t get one of those first three guys, it’s between the three points, Isaac and Tatum and of those, I’d go Ntilikina or Fox and then Isaac and then Smith.

    not to be too discouraging – but, how often does a rookie come into the nba and actually contribute within the first 2 to 3 years…

    damian lilliard comes to mind – after that…

    jus cuz beating dead horses is fun…man, Phil really should have figured out a way to swap rose and rubio…

    I need to go google it…but, hasn’t fulz been hurt for the last month or so…what’s wrong with the kid…

    had the laker game on and just noticed the score – LA up by 7 (I think it was 11 before I started typing the sentence, russell just hit a 3, up by 10)…

    the only way there’s any justice in this world is if we some how end up with the laker’s pick…

    Since I’m watching the SC Duke game I figured it an appropriate time to say that we should be looking at in Sindarius Thornwell in the second round. He’s a senior but his numbers are just absolutely insane, like, better than Josh Hart insane.

    Totally agree.

    I had the opportunity to watch him a lot this year and I don’t know why he doesn’t get any love.

    Most mock drafts are not even ranking him as a second round pick. Probably because of his age.

    Maybe we can get him as an undrafted rookie.

    Yeah if Josh Hart qualifies as a late first rounder then Thornwell ought to as well considering he’s literally the most productive player in college basketball

    It’s ridiculous that he’s projected at the late 2nd/undrafted. Though if he continues his tournament run he could skyrocket to the late first

    Darn, I was hoping Tatum would have such a great tournament that he would rise in the rankings, freeing up better players for the Knicks!

    Lonzo Ball is going to be a triple double machine like Jason Kidd before him.

    He’s the guy. If we’re lucky enough to get a top 2 we have to pick him.

    Maybe we’ll get lucky and end up with Ball. He is super.

    I can see him having a lot of 14/10/10 games which is great. But I can also see Fultz having a lot of 24/8/7 games… His rebound rate is close to Ball’s 9.4/9.0 but his assist rate is actually higher than Ball’s despite playing on an awful team. And I’m not nearly as high on Ball’s defense as you are- lots of drifting into the lane looking for steals and he certainly doesn’t move his feet like Fox (Fox blew by him pretty much at will earlier in the year). I still love Ball and if push comes to shove I think he probably has the best career of anyone in the class but Fultz has the higher floor by a decent margin so he’d be my pick.

    The thing about Ball is that he’s having a similar assist rate to Fultz and outperforming him in per 40 and per 100 possessions metrics while being at half Fultz’s usage rate.

    I’m not necessarily saying that Ball is good on defense, just that he’s competent relative to the rest of the college guards not named De’Aaron because they’ve been pretty bad on defense because of either lack of effort (Fultz, Smith) or just a lack of defensive skill (Smith, Monk)

    I think Ball will be good enough on defense where he won’t be a turnstile. I’m not sure I can say the same about Fultz, but TS hard to tell just how good he could be in defense because he’s tasked with carrying the offense of a bad team in Washington


    That’s the thing about Ball that I find so appealing. He’s able to be very productive with relatively low usage rates. That’s very very rare.

    I don’t see the Thornwell and Hart comparisons at all. Hart has never shot under 50% from the field and his lowest 2pt FG% was 55.8% as a sophomore. The problem with Hart though is a lack of athleticism but I still think he can be a starter level player.

    Thornwell is having a great senior year though but seems like a player peaking because he is more mature and has a better understanding of how to play the college game.

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