Knicks Morning News (2016.09.07)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks post-Labor Day Q&A
    (Tuesday, September 06, 2016 9:37:17 AM)

    With Labor Day weekend officially in the rearview mirror and football tailgates well underway, it’s time to begin to focus our attention to the hardwood as Knicks training camp is about a month away.

  • [NYTimes] Swin Cash Leaving Her Mark on Liberty in Her Last W.N.B.A. Season
    (Wednesday, September 07, 2016 12:36:07 AM)

    Cash, a 15-year league veteran planning to retire, has started most of the team’s games while mentoring younger players and putting her strong voice to use in other ways.

  • 39 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.09.07)”

    September dreams
    I’d love to see Willy Hernangomez becoming a smaller/slimmer/faster/smarter Marc Gasol.
    I’d also love to see Thanasis being gym-possessed, fixing his dribbling/passing and playing like Scotie Pippen.

    We don’t even get respect on SI.com. They ranked the 30 “Most Hopeless Fan Bases” and we only ranked 25th. It’s hard to believe that there are 24 fan bases more hopeless than we are. We definitely should be top 10.

    As far as I can see, reddit is usually 60% old clips of Bernard King, Clyde, Ewing and Starks, 30% highlights of KP, and 10% “hey you guys think we could make the playoffs?” -A question we argue here daily.

    Maybe we are the most hopeless though because we delude ourselves into thinking we have the possibility of being good.

    Yeah, it is hard to call Knick fans hopeless when they are hopeful about every move the Knicks make. 🙂

    my theory on why Knick fans are so delusional is that th team was so bad for so long that there is a lost generation of Knick fans. I mean, what percentage of current active Knick fans do you think started following the team between like 2004 and 2009? My guess is very few. That means the bulk of current Knick fans haven’t rooted for the team long enough to have had the optimism crushed out of them.

    Yeah, there’s us old timers, but we don’t relate well to the under 25 crowd who populate sites like reddit.

    Not true. I am surrounded by teenagers all day and tons of them are Knicks fans. Keep in mine, the Mets and Jets have sucked for as long as (although not quite as badly as) the Knicks and they have plenty of young fans, even though they have real competition from the Yankees and Giants.

    I haven’t felt whole since Game 7 against the Heat in ’97

    the last fifteen years have just made the rot more rotten

    I’m 22 years old and I’ve been a Knicks fan since I was maybe five or six years old. Shaq was my favorite basketball player back then, but I didn’t really follow the NBA heavily until I was 14, when Mike D’Antoni signed with the Knicks. So I’ve been devoted to this team full on since Donnie Walsh got hired basically, and I’ve always felt we were one seriously pivotal move away from not being a joke anymore. At one point I thought we would sign Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh. The year after that I thought we would get Melo, STAT, and CP3. After that I thought Melo, Tyson, Lin and STAT would bring home the bacon. Then we won 54 games after Lin left and lost to the Pacers because health (and damn you if you disagree with me when Shump was the healthiest player on the team). The Bargnani delusion had me bad (he even had like 10 rebounds/36 his first ten games and I was sold) but I’ve since learned from my transgressions. Then triangle ball. Now Horny ball.

    I think the Knicks know when to fire a guy is what it boils down to. They let a guy go after he proves to be a pumpkin and bring in the fresh new savior. It seems we always get close to generationally great talent like the times we missed out on Stephen Curry, Steve Kerr, LeBron James, Chris Paul, and so forth but always end up with Mike Woodson and Derrick Rose.

    I believe Porzingis is the savior, though. IMO if Karl Towns is the LeBron of the draft class, Porzingis is Wade, Okafor is Bosh and D Russell is Melo. I believe Porzingis is going to rise to be the best player in the East as LeBron is getting older and less dominant. I believe we’re gonna kick the shit outta gritty Boston as they’ll have more talent but no superstar like the Zingoat. And I believe he’ll deliver a post-Warriors era championship next decade. Word.

    I mean, what percentage of current active Knick fans do you think started following the team between like 2004 and 2009? My guess is very few.

    🙁

    So I’ve been devoted to this team full on since Donnie Walsh got hired basically, and I’ve always felt we were one seriously pivotal move away from not being a joke anymore.

    You weren’t around for Isiah? It explains so much.

    I think the Knicks know when to fire a guy is what it boils down to. They let a guy go after he proves to be a pumpkin and bring in the fresh new savior.

    http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/12873850/why-isiah-thomas-hire-worse-think

    Okay.

    Good post on an off day Massive.

    I’ve been a fan since I think around 88-89 (the bomb squad+Skywalker), listening to WFAN under my pillow, but have had to suffer through a lifetime of hearing about the greatness of Walt and Willis from my father. The Riley Knicks had a great run, no complaints there, so I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who came of age as a Knicks fan in 2001. There have been other franchises as bad but none I think so brutally and abjectly stupid. There’s been so much tawdry shit too.

    I agree that in Porzingis we do have a sliver of hope. It’s something anyway. But Dolan is going to Dolan. He might wring the fandom out of me at some point. It’s getting harder and harder to hold on, with the Derrick Rose acquisition being the latest nick.

    I believe Porzingis is the savior, though. IMO if Karl Towns is the LeBron of the draft class, Porzingis is Wade, Okafor is Bosh and D Russell is Melo.

    Man, it was such a good draft. I think Russell is still going to be a very good player and if Okafor were on another team, I’d still be in on him, as well (I can’t really be in on him with him being, like, the third or fourth best big man on a team filled with big men). And that’s not even getting into Myles Turner, WCS, Winslow, Richardson and Hollis-Jefferson (even Mudiay, the Nuggets are obviously really high on still). What a draft!

    To be fair, even Jerian Grant has the makings of a rotation player. Wish we drafted someone else, but he wasn’t a complete whiff.

    Oh sure, if you want to expand to rotation guys, there’s even more guys in the draft, like Cameron Payne, Bobby Portis, Frank Kaminsky. Such a great draft!

    @ Z-man

    Teenage fans would have been too young to understand the Isiah era and likely didn’t start paying attention until Walsh, and since then, while the team hasn’t been much better, it hasn’t made any catastrophic choices yet (although both Noah and Melo’s deals have the potential to be catastrophes).

    The missing fans i’m talking about would have started following the team closely before like 2006 and would have been old enough to have some comprehension of front office stuff, so they’d probably be in the 24-29 range now.

    @20

    I’m 29 and there are plenty of Knicks fans my age, but I was hooked from when I was a kid watching the 90s teams. Oakley’s still my favorite Knick even though I have more vivid memories of Eddy Curry.

    Idk why anybody thinks the team will stop producing fans when they suck when we have plenty of evidence that this isn’t the case. The Knicks and MSG are like the Cubs and Wrigley. It doesn’t matter how long or how much they suck, there is a certain draw to them which brings people in year after year.

    Not to mention the influence of parents (my son is a diehard do to my fan-ness, poor kid!) and the mass-marketing of star players (Steph jerseys were hot sellers even when they sucked.)

    And the star power/coupla playoff years recently probably converted fans, as well as Linsanity.

    There’s a reason why the 17-65 team still sold out every night (and people actually showed up!)

    We sometimes forget that this is a more cerebral venue than most, and many here take the sucking and the folks who engineered it (especially Isiah and Dolan) to suggest that the fan base is stupid or deluded. They’re just loyal to the laundry and the home town, and this is just sports. It’s not like graduates of Penn State or Rutgers continuing to support their team is much different.

    To be fair, even Jerian Grant has the makings of a rotation player. Wish we drafted someone else, but he wasn’t a complete whiff.

    You could do much worse than Jerian Grant at $1.6M, like Derrick Rose at $21.3M.

    It’s not like graduates of Penn State or Rutgers continuing to support their team is much different.

    You have to be a special kind of ignorant to support the Penn State football program after the revelations that Paterno knew about the abuse since the 70s.

    I’m thankful that we only have to overlook a multi-million-dollar sexual harassment case to praise James Dolan’s tenure as owner.

    Never forget!

    Asked if he was bothered by a black man calling a black female “bitch,” Thomas said: “Not as much. I’m sorry to say, I do make a distinction.

    “A white male calling a black female a bitch is highly offensive,” Thomas said. “That would have violated my code of conduct.”

    “Maybe I shouldn’t go there. … A white male calling a black female, that is wrong with me. I’m not taking that. I’m not accepting that. … That’s a problem for me.”

    You have to be a special kind of ignorant to support the Penn State football program after the revelations that Paterno knew about the abuse since the 70s.

    My sister’s a Penn State grad that went to school when Paterno was there, disavows everything he did now, but still supports the football program every Saturday in the fall. Paterno and Sandusky’s actions are obviously despicable, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the players that represent the school on the football field.

    My sister’s a Penn State grad that went to school when Paterno was there, disavows everything he did now, but still supports the football program every Saturday in the fall. Paterno and Sandusky’s actions are obviously despicable, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the players that represent the school on the football field.

    Have they started paying their labor yet?

    For those who have only known the 21st Century Knicks, there is something to be said for suffering mediocre to downright awful teams and then watch the team systematically build towards a chp. Im in my 60’s and started going to old Garden in the Willie Naulls, Ken Sears Darell Imhoff era, when you had 2x headers every Tuesday. Watched the ascension to the ’69 Knicks and was lucky enough to be at the Willis Reed chp game. The buildup to tplayoff success season by season, culminating with the chp was as satisfying as my first orgasm (tmi; sorry for crude analogy) The members of this board are the direct descendants of the savvy sophisticated fans of the 60’s and 70’s. They of course lack the stat analytical skills that you have. But there was a great camraderie among fans meta analyzing the Knicks and the moves of Eddie Donavan and Red Holzman. The intensity of Conference Finals series is worthy of aspiring to for us, and hopefully the Bockers make it and provide that experience.
    Cubs fans are in the process of having this experience, only with the longest build up ever.

    “What?”
    I’m surprised that you didn’t recognize his comment for what it was — i.e., a classic Jowles response to an argument no one made. You responded to his comment about Penn State and Joe Paterno and, rather than reply to your statement, he raised an argument that not only had nothing to do with your statement, but also had nothing at all to do with his own original statement. You know, kind of like how he argues about basketball…

    “That’s not a surprising response.”
    And this, too, is not a surprising “response.”

    I can’t fathom how the Knicks have brought in any new fans since the 1990s. They’ve played virtually no meaningful games, have had few good players (and no great players), and have routinely embarrassed themselves as an organization with their decision making, both basketball related and not.

    I live outside the NY media market, so maybe there is some kind of grass-roots program that recruits new fans with things like free tickets and player appearances at schools, but the Knicks have only played a handful of games on national television during this time and have been thoroughly irrelevant outside of New York.

    I’m surprised that you didn’t recognize his comment for what it was — i.e., a classic Jowles response to an argument no one made. You responded to his comment about Penn State and Joe Paterno and, rather than reply to your statement, he raised an argument that not only had nothing to do with your statement, but also had nothing at all to do with his own original statement. You know, kind of like how he argues about basketball…

    No. If I were doing that, I would post something like, “Well, how can you speak authoritatively on anything since this comment?”

    And I would post something like this, which is one of the funniest things ever said on Knickerblogger:

    What cracks me up is that most of the people who are screaming about this deal are the same ones who are still whining about the Knicks giving up the great Danilo Gallinari in the Melo deal. Check out their career numbers — Bargnani’s career averages are better than Gallinari’s best year and Bargnani’s best years are much better than Gallo’s. They are also a nervous wreck that the Knicks might lose Copeland, who is not as versatile a scorer as Bargnani and is a worse defender and rebounder. Bargnani as a stretch 4 is a perfect compliment to Melo as a “power 3.” Bargnani is a bust as the 1st pick in the draft but, if he were a mid-first round pick, the narrative on him would be very, very different.

    http://knickerblogger.net/a-rebuttal-why-the-andrea-bargnani-trade-is-a-great-move-for-the-knicks/#comment-440459

    But I wouldn’t do that, because it’s off-topic.

    My point was about fandom and ethics. And until Penn State treats its labor as employees instead of people lucky enough to have received a “free” education, Penn State is complicit in one of the worst scams in American capitalism. Penn State made $53M in profit in 2012, without giving a dime to its players.

    At least James Dolan’s checks clear.

    My point was about fandom and ethics. And until Penn State treats its labor as employees instead of people lucky enough to have received a “free” education, Penn State is complicit in one of the worst scams in American capitalism. Penn State made $53M in profit in 2012, without giving a dime to its players.

    I agree with that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with why students and alumni will continue to watch Penn State football even though Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky did truly awful things which was the only point I was making.

    I know this is shocking to you, but most people that watch college sports don’t give a shit if players get money. The pushback on that isn’t coming from fanbases it’s coming from colleges themselves and professional sports leagues. I guess we should all stop watching the NBA now.

    Whoa. Who was the idiot who posted that stupid comment about Bargnani?!? Wait. That was me? I hate when that happens. For what it’s worth, I have, on many occasions, acknowledged how wrong I was on Bargs. I agree that your first comment was about fandom and ethics (and I know that this will come as a shock, but I agree wholeheartedly with the comment). While your retort to Lavor was arguably also about fandom and ethics, it was also a complete non sequitur.

    “You have to be a special kind of ignorant to support the Penn State football program after the revelations that Paterno knew about the abuse since the 70s.

    I’m thankful that we only have to overlook a multi-million-dollar sexual harassment case to praise James Dolan’s tenure as owner.

    Never forget!”

    Some would say the same about an economics professor who wastes so many precious hours of his time allotted on earth posting on a blog for a team he despises due to its despicable owner and its criminal coaches and players. In a sense, you are patronizing the team as much as, maybe even more than, the typical “ignorant” fan. What is your time worth? If time is money, how much money have you squandered thinking about Dolan’s product?

    How odd it is that you can’t find a better use of your time and intellect. I’m truly curious, what do you actually get out of it?

    But yeah, f those Penn State students and graduates. How dare they!

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