Which Of These Lucky 13 Players Would You Be Fine With the Knicks Drafting At #8?

Alan wanted more of that precious “All poll Knickberblogger content” that we are known so well for here (for the last week, at least) and so here ya go.

Assuming Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Toppin and Avdija are all off of the board, which of these following thirteen prospects would you be fine with the Knicks picking at #8?

Which of these following 13 players would you be okay with the Knicks drafting at #8?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

I think that this will let us know, indirectly, which players most of us are looking forward to the Knicks ruining.

Alan wants Poku as an option, he can have Poku as an option:

How about Aleksej Pokuševski? Would you be fine with him at #8?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...
Liked it? Take a second to support Brian Cronin on Patreon!

528 thoughts to “Which Of These Lucky 13 Players Would You Be Fine With the Knicks Drafting At #8?”

  1. I’m gonna go off the board and stick with my first choice: Deni Avdija…no real good reason other than he reminds me a bit of gallo, who I think we totally gave away for nothing…

    second is Kira Lewis from ‘bama, but not at 8 though…hopefully we can move up in to the top 15 using our two later picks…

  2. There is some buzz that Avdija might be going as high as second, so he just isn’t a realistic option at #8.

  3. This poll I demanded is invalid because of a lack of Poku, Brian. For shame.

    (More seriously, Poku is a prospect like Tyrell Terry, where I probably wouldn’t want to pick them at 8, but wouldn’t mind at 10 or lower if we gain an additional asset in the process.)

  4. Man, with service like this, I am clearly making my demands too small.

    Brian, I would like $3500, please.

  5. JK, the Shallow Water is sick. It’s definitely got a lot of character. I can’t say that I love the Meet Maude — the random pitch modulation isn’t nearly as musical in a delay. I wish I had saved the couple hundred bucks and just gotten a Carbon Copy to replace the bulky, feature-overloaded DD-20 that had been on my board for fifteen years. I mostly use delay for ambient texture and a slight tape-like echo, not for palm-muted, tap-tempo, Edge-emulating nonsense (I’ll leave that to the CCM peddlers) so I really need something lightweight and easy to dial in. I could have gotten that for $80 and half the space of the Maude. But I’m also happy to support Fairfield, who are hand-making boutique pedals for reasonable prices.

  6. I went with Hayes, Haliburton, Okongwu, Vassell, and just barely Okoro, and I would say more or less in that order. Terry was a tough omission but at 8 he’d be too much of a stretch for someone I don’t necessarily see as a full time point guard.

    I also voted #YesOnPoku. It wouldn’t be the best use of resources but if I’m going to be a believer I can’t go halfway.

  7. I just put Hayes and Hali, but I’ve convinced myself that we are trading Mitch and #8 to GS for LaMelo. Rose is going to go for that big splash, you watch.

  8. The only knocks on Okongwu are 1)Redundancy with Mitch, and 2)The same ongoing question we have about Mitch and how ultimately valuable a center is in the modern game if he has no real outside game. Otherwise, he seems one of the best — and safest — prospects in the whole draft, and we’d be getting him on a rookie contract, where Mitch is about to become much more financially complicated.

    How does everybody feel about Okongwu, both in a vacuum and as someone whose selection would probably result in us trading Mitch?

  9. Yes on Okongwu. I don’t care about redundancy at this stage — take the best player available. Mitch can guard smaller players better than lumbering bigs. He does need to work on an outside game, though. If he can pull up from the corner and not look like Giannis doing it, that’s good enough for me.

  10. I agree that we’re not in a position to be saying no to talent, especially if he’s a significantly better prospect than a guy who fills a need. But the idea of Okongwu and Mitch playing together on offense feels like a rehash the spatially-impaired Mitch/Randle lineup from last season. You’d need to just have great outside shooting from the other three spots for it to function. One of those spots is going to RJ, who may or may not have improved his shooting since last we saw him. If we take Okongwu at 8 and don’t get a starting-caliber PG later in the draft or free agency, then another spot is going to one of Frank, DSJ, or Elfrid Payton, none of whom is what you would call a threat from outside. It’d be a mess.

    I think if you take Okongwu, it’s with an eye on trading Mitch to fill another need, and/or to platoon them for the time being while the rest of the roster sorts itself out.

  11. Okongwu would be a great get at 8 along with Hayes or Halliburton. I can’t get excited about anyone else.

    I have been amazed by Avidja’s rise.

  12. The good news is that we re only a few weeks away from the draft and then free agency. So we’ll finally get to see the thinking of the new management team in action. I wasn’t initially thrilled with bringing in Rose. I certainly didn’t want to keep Perry. But I love Thibs and the rest of the assistants seem fine even though I don’t know enough to have a strong opinion. It seems like Thibs was legitimately on board with most or all of them and is not just saying that. So for now I’m good. I’m willing to give Rose time to see what he actually does before going on any rants. I know what I think he should try to do, but our position as a terrible team is going to limit him in the same way it limited Walsh, Phil, and the during the last few years of my personal Mills/Perry hell.

  13. Voted yes on Hayes, Okongwu, Hali, and Poku (though realistically you trade down for Poku). Wouldnt be too crestfallen if we traded down for Kira or Terry but it’s firmly my second choice behind taking one of the above at 8.

  14. I don’t see us trading Mitch and our #8 for LaMelo.

    Sure, maybe Rose would love to “make a splash.” Is LaMelo really making a splash, though? Sure, he’s one of the top prospects, but its not like this dude is hyped like Zion or Doncic or even Ja. He’s got just as many question marks about his game as all of the other top 8 or so prospects. He isn’t a sure thing and trading away Mitch to get him seems like robbing peter to pay paul. Who is LaMelo gonna throw sick lobs to if Mitch isn’t on the team with him?

    Plus, I am not so sure LaMelo won’t fall to us. Probably unlikely but he’s not exactly killing it in the interviews. I could see a scenario where he falls to us.

    And I just feel like Rose and company know that there isn’t one draft pick this year that’s going to save us and we have needs all over the place. I think the team will either stay with the picks they got or make a trade to pick up another one. If that happens I think we could then package two of our picks to move up (and still have 2 first round picks, just better positioned ones)…but I imagine that would happen with the Clips pick and whatever pick we get in a trade. I think the splash rose wants to make is to come away with at least 2 really exciting prospects for the team.

  15. From Macri;

    I’ve been told by a league source that Chris Paul prefers his next basketball home to be either in LA or NY (Los Angeles is where he resides full time) and that has created some modicum of leverage in the ongoing negotiations between the sides. I’m also told that there is a deal on the table that is comfortable from Sam Presti’s perspective, and the ball is in Leon Rose’s court.

  16. Mitch still has work to do to prove he can be a 30 minute a night guy – he only has 15 career games of 30+ minutes. Part of that is some questionable coaching for sure, but he has to learn to stay out of foul trouble and pace himself better, and then hopefully that will help him get some more leeway from the coaches. But for now I don’t think there’s really a significant logjam created by Okongwu and Mitch even if they can’t play together (I’m skeptical – I’m not a believer in Mitch’s outside game in the least).

    If you think Okongwu is the best prospect on the board (and I think there’s a decent chance he is), take him, let him split 48 minutes with Mitch and see where you’re at in 12 months.

  17. How does everybody feel about Okongwu, both in a vacuum and as someone whose selection would probably result in us trading Mitch?

    This is one of the best and toughest questions about this draft IMO, though it’s probably irrelevant because I don’t think the Knicks are considering Okongwu at all.

    In a vacuum, I’ve come around to the belief that in spending valuable capital (picks and/or money) on big men you really need to grade them on a much harsher curve than guards/wings. Whether or not they’ll be generally productive is more of a first question than the sole determinant. So the question for Okongwu is how much he can separate himself from the pogo stick types available to any team at anytime? Some swing factors in that regard will be his 3PT shot, playmaking ability, and defensive versatility.

    My largely eye-test based assessment is I’m optimistic about his ability to distinguish himself, because his jump shot looks pretty decent and I think he has the potential to defend just about all 5 positions in a pinch eventually.

    If you come to the determination that he’s worth drafting in a vacuum, I don’t think we can afford to take Mitch into account too strongly. It’s not clear to me the fit would be untenable anyway, and as much as I love Mitch I think being taken into account when a bad team is drafting in the lottery is a very high bar that he hasn’t cleared just yet.

    The counterargument is this kind of raw BPA approach can actually be counter to an asset value maximization strategy. If every other team knows you absolutely have to trade 1 of 2 players, you’re not going to get the best possible offers for them. I think we saw this to some extent when Philly basically had to trade Noel.

    For that reason I’m not a BPA extremist when the BPA isn’t glaringly obvious, but still lean towards the first thing I said about it re: Mitch and Okongwu.

  18. Voted Hayes, Haliburton, Okongwu, Okoro, & Terry.

    Okoro & Terry are bigger question marks but I’d be fine when them. If Terry really had a growth spurt, I’d be all in on him.

    Voted no on Poku, only because I’d want to draft him lower.

  19. Good feature from Hollinger, though it’s insane that he’s still using PER (along with RAPTOR and PIPM) in his cocktail productivity metric:

    https://theathletic.com/2172041/2020/11/02/2020-nba-free-agency-hollingers-top-free-agents-introducing-borg-and-bord/

    According to his BORD metric, FVV is worth around 22m aay; and Bertans is worth about 19m. I’d be interested in Bertans around that number, maybe, if we had to get a free agent. I’m really not sure about FVV though.

  20. Jowles, nice recap. Good scotch (L16 maybe my favorite of all), good guitar, good food, what else does one need? Don’t go and screw it all up by having kids!

    What about the fires, is the air all cleared up?

  21. Hayes and Hali are the only two prospects the majority of respondents would be comfortable taking at 8. Which of course means they will go 6th and 7th.

  22. I really like Bertans, especially if we (dumbly) make the CP3 deal. But that seems like a lot of money for a somewhat better version of Steve Novak.

    As to FVV, it just seems like buying high on him at that $ amount.

  23. Definitely voted for Tyrell Terry at 8. He’s the best combination of shooting and ball-handling in this draft and by all accounts he has a high IQ. Quite simply I think we need to stop drafting players who are a jump shot away and just take a kid who can shoot the lights out. Tyrell Terry would be the pick for me unless Killian Hayes or LaMelo Ball were somehow still there.

  24. Glass, asking for a friend, but mostly in all seriousness — how do you reconcile “we need to stop drafting players who are a jump shot away and just take a kid who can shoot the lights out” with “unless… LaMelo Ball were somehow still there”?

  25. Re: Mitch vs Okongwu,

    As a lifelong Jets fan, right now there’s a similar conversation about whether or not the Jets should go BPA and take Trevor Lawrence (obviously) or rebuild around Sam Darnold who still has some promise and value around the NFL. Even if you love Sam Darnold and think he’s a more mobile Drew Brees, you’d have to acknowledge that Trevor Lawrence on his rookie contract is an easier contract to build a contending team around than Darnold on his 2nd NFL contract. The same thing applies to a theoretical Mitchell Robinson vs Onyeka Okongwu argument. Most people would say that Okongwu is a better prospect than Mitchell Robinson, and to have that guy on his rookie deal for the next four years instead of Mitchell Robinson on his 2nd contract would help us do things like soak up bad contracts for assets or sign a big name free agent or two in ways that Mitchell Robinson’s 2nd deal wouldn’t allow us. From a team building standpoint, you absolutely have to take Double O, flip Mitch for the best deal out there (does Washington say no to Mitch for #9 and Troy Brown Jr, for example), and reset the clock on having to pay a center a big money deal.

    I’d hate to trade Mitch, but it’s the smart thing to do. I see no way Golden State passes on Okongwu, though, so I doubt this will be a real discussion on draft night.

  26. Raven:
    Glass, asking for a friend, but mostly in all seriousness — how do you reconcile “we need to stop drafting players who are a jump shot away and just take a kid who can shoot the lights out” with “unless… LaMelo Ball were somehow still there”?

    With Ball you’re buying that the jumpshot isn’t “broken” as much as it’s a shot selection issue, and I do believe his talent is a situation where you can’t pass him up at pick 8. I don’t think LaMelo Ball will ever be an elite 3 point marksman in this league, but I do believe he’s a lock for 2-4 3PM a night as early as his 2nd season. I know they are not in the same category of prospect, but Luka Doncic had poor shooting numbers for a prospect and still doesn’t have good shooting numbers. Doncic overcomes his percentages though by just taking so many of them that he’s good for 3 3PM and 7 FTM a night. I think Ball will be similar in that his percentages won’t blow you out of the water but he’ll be a high volume shot maker with accuracy that won’t kill you.

  27. Ball’s playmaking is also at such an elite level that you can live with him even if the shot never improves. Whereas some of the draft’s other prospects — as well as several kids already on our roster — will barely be viable rotation players if their shooting does not significantly improve.

  28. Jonathan Givony
    @DraftExpress
    Kansas’ Devon Dotson ran a 3.02 three-quarter court sprint, the fastest time at this year’s NBA Combine and the second fastest time in the past decade after Donovan Mitchell (3.01). Also had the best lane agility time (10.44) at the Combine and measured a 40 1/2″ vertical leap.

    I’m not a big combine numbers guy, but combine this with Dotson’s stellar statistical profile and I’d count my blessings if he’s there at 38, and would be quite happy with him at 27.

  29. Yeah, Dotson is a guy we should have our eye on if we don’t take Hayes at 8. He’s a real prospect and should be higher, and would look fun with Hali in the backcourt.

  30. Ugh on the Chris Paul thing. I assume the trade would include Knox one of the two Mavs picks (or maybe this year’s #27). I’m also not a fan of making our 2021 pick worse, but if it happens, I’ll accept the direction and will obviously root for him.

    Seems like the Knicks prefer Lewis to Dotson. I think a lot depends on how the top 7 shakes out. NYK could go big or wing with #8 and pg with #27… or vice versa. If their preferred guy will be available at 14 (Hampton? Lewis? Poku?) then I hope they pull the trigger on trading down to get more draft capital. This team needs a lot of help.

  31. My wife is a big KU fan so I’ve watched Dotson. He would be a good pick up for us later in the draft. Also, people who want us to keep Dotson will be happy that we still have a Dotson on the team.

  32. What about the fires, is the air all cleared up?

    No longer living in Hell, but the underlying problems haven’t gone away.

  33. I wish there was something else going on in the world to distract me.

    how are you doing z-man?

    With students, teachers, staff and faculty, folks above – how’s the school year gone for you so far?

    have you been able to reconcile some of the injury stuff to get back out running again?

  34. I’d never imagine that there were so many guitarists on this blog.
    I gave it a try too but was too lazy to succeed…
    10 years ago i purchased a Chinese Stratocaster and an amplifier via internet for 100€.
    I also got me a book on How to learn for about 20-30€.
    I never opened the book till this day.
    Remember that i was scratching it for a few days trying to play “Happy Birthday to You” for my brother’s bday and also the Witch by the Sonics which seemed doable(to my ears!)
    I (almost) nailed Happy “Birthday to you” in front of my family, scratched it a few days more and finally gave it along the amplifier to a good buddy of mine who could actually play.

  35. I gave it a try too but was too lazy to succeed…

    If I told you it’s a million times easier to learn how to play guitar now than when was teenager I might be underestimating it.

    When I was 15-16 you typically had to go to a music school to find a teacher. Then you typically wound up with a very mediocre guitarist who was old school, He focused on teaching you how to read music using some Mel Bay or other music book full of garbage songs for a couple of years when you really wanted to learn Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, David Bowie, Hendrix or whatever other rock or even jazz you were interested in. If you made it past that horror without quitting, you’d eventually get to the point where you were trying to learn songs by ear.

    The way you would do that was to buy the 45 record and run it at 33 (the album speed). That more or less slowed the song down but kept in the same key so you had a better chance to figure it out IF you had a decent ear developed. It took forever to figure something out unless you were blessed with perfect pitch.

    Now, just go on Youtube and there are tens of thousands of teachers. Many are incredible guitar players that will teach you songs, theory, techniques, reading music etc.. What took years when I was young you can probably learn in a few months now and it will be more accurate and more fun. If I had Youtube when I was in my teens, I may not have lost interest and given guitar up for decades.

  36. CP3 in LA makes massively more sense than CP3 in NY from everyone’s perspective. I find it hard to believe that’s even a discussion.

  37. An old friend of mine who’s now a professional jazz musician/teacher lives right next to me.
    It’s ridiculously easy for me to try to learn but my body says NO!

  38. geo: how are you doing z-man?

    With students, teachers, staff and faculty, folks above – how’s the school year gone for you so far?

    have you been able to reconcile some of the injury stuff to get back out running again?

    I teach 5th grade at a school primarily full of military dependents, or military connected students. We started the year remote but are now face-to-face instruction due to “mission comes first”. It has been difficult trying to find a balance between ensuring students are safe through mitigation strategies and ppe put into place and giving them an opportunity to experience a typical school year in my classroom. (I generally do a lot of collaborate learning and center based approach to my instruction). On top of that juggling act, i have an 8th grader and a 5 month old. What even worse is my wife teaches kinder, and its almost impossible to tell a kinder to keep their mask on all day as well as not give hugs when they see her. So overall, the school year has been a big juggiling act.

  39. hmmmm, i’ve always thought about it – maybe it’s not to late to jump in to guitar hero and wail away and kind of pretend i’m doing the real thing…

    KYN – never put off for tomorrow what you can postpone until at least the day after, tomorrow…

  40. geo:
    hmmmm, i’ve always thought about it – maybe it’s not to late to jump in to guitar hero and wail away and kind of pretend i’m doing the real thing…

    KYN – never put off for tomorrow what you can postpone until at least the day after, tomorrow…

    Used to do the same with Rockband and drums. Or Drumania when i used to live in Okinawa.

  41. god bless knicks671…i know teachers are generally underpaid and underappreciated…i also know i’ve learned my lesson about discounting their service to the kids i love – to teachers contributions to our society as a whole…

    had a parent/teacher conference a few weeks ago…4th grader godson was missing about 120 assignments (since the beginning of september)…the mom would ask the child, he said he submitted his work – but, turns out there are like 6 to 8 daily assignments which need to be done and turned in…there’s about 7 or 8 different portals/websites that he needs to address throughout the week…to be honest, i took my eye off things at the beginning of the year to focus on work and a health situation…

    life will catch you off guard at any and every opportunity…

    we’re grinding away now to stay current and try to catch up…

    my thought generally is to be all you can be – right now though, let’s just do whatever it takes to make it through the year…

    things are going fine for the first grader…academic expectations aren’t nearly as intense…

  42. I misunderstood the poll and thought I had to pick just one person. I picked Haliburton because he seems most likely to be useful. This just reflects my conclusion that we are very unlikely to get a killer player in this draft, so we might as well just pick someone who can shoot.

  43. geo:

    had a parent/teacher conference a few weeks ago…4th grader godson was missing about 120 assignments (since the beginning of september)…the mom would ask the child, he said he submitted his work – but, turns out there are like 6 to 8 daily assignments which need to be done and turned in…there’s about 7 or 8 different portals/websites that he needs to address throughout the week…

    The number of assignments and portals/websites sounds crazy at first but is about right. It truely is amazing watching students, as young as 2nd grade, full engage in all the resources that are avaiable to them via their classroom teacher. Teachers are then expected to know the ins and outs of each site and be able to not only diagnose any problems students may come across but also ensure that students have access to the sites even with a disproportionate amount computers-to-students.

  44. CP3 in LA makes massively more sense than CP3 in NY from everyone’s perspective. I find it hard to believe that’s even a discussion.

    Sure, but how on earth would either LA team make a CP3 trade work, cap-wise? if you assume the Lakers re-sign AD to a max deal, they have no room for Paul, and also not enough assets to make the math work for OKC. I’m less familiar with the Clips’ cap situation, but Kawhi and George are both making a lot of money between them. (A Clips’ fan friend of mine said “It would take WILD maneuvering, and not sure even then it would work.”)

  45. Owen:
    https://www.theringer.com/video/2020/11/2/21546534/anthony-edwards-a-scouting-report

    Why would the number of three point attempts Anthony Edwards took make his jumper more projectable?

    This is included in a number of models because it correlates with being a good shooter, but personally I believe it’s an artefact from times when only good shooters would shoot a lot. If you were a good shooter, then you’d trust yourself to shoot and your coach would give you the green light. Keep in mind that actual 3p% is not a great indicator. Now, everyone shoots regardless so who knows.

    On the other hand, it may show a willingness to take risks and grow despite struggling and that projects future success.

    I’m inclined to think it’s #1, but Edwards is a solid FT shooter so it’s not crazy that he raises his 3p% in the NBA.

  46. i don’t know Knicks671, when i was trying to figure out how much time was required each day – i came up with about 3 to 4 hours of daily focused work (expand that out to about 5 to 6 hours for most kids)…the teacher thought it was about an hour and a half maybe, actually – i think she may have said 45 minutes…i told her that was about how long it would take to log in to all the different websites :)

    the assignment submission process itself has been a bit of a challenge for us to work out…trying to get him now to understand simply marking his work as being done doesn’t really mean it is done…

    not all these academic concepts are reinforcing…a lot of of the stuff is brand new academic concepts…that stuff takes even longer to work on…

    cause and effect…i’m gonna hold tight to the belief that this will simply help strengthen the child’s ability to learn going forward…

  47. Ohh definately agree that the amount of “screen time” is excessive. For the last quarter of last school year and the first quarter of this school year i tried to keep it under 2 hours of total required screen time for my 5th graders per day. That was an impossibility if i kept true to the 5 subjects per day (math, ela, social studies, health, science). So instead i focused on just math and ela. Had 2 assignments for my students to do per day. My parents and students were able to stay up to date on their work and i feel i helped with some of the mental stress that happens at home when trying to teach your child and work from home at the same time. Got in trouble at work for only doing 2 subjects but i’d take the hit again if given the same choice over. Sometimes going against the grain and using common sense is the right thing to do. :P

  48. The only motive i see in CP3 wanting to come to the knicks is to learn how to play the guitar!

  49. “This is included in a number of models because it correlates with being a good shooter”

    That’s a very strange statistical approach

  50. I’m hoping the rumors about CP3 at least partially reflect OKC trying to pump up his trade value. It makes sense they would want the Lakers to think the Knicks are interested too. But the Lakers make much more sense as a CP3 destination than the Knicks do if they can figure out a deal that works. I don’t want that big a contract on the Knicks and I certainly don’t want to give up assets for the privilege of paying that much salary.

  51. geo: how are you doing z-man?

    With students, teachers, staff and faculty, folks above – how’s the school year gone for you so far?

    have you been able to reconcile some of the injury stuff to get back out running again?

    Thanks for asking geo! School is going incredibly well, considering the circumstances. I have a great team and an especially great AP who essentially runs the school. Our community has been very supportive. Our attendance rate is around 95% and 65% of our students opted for blended, both of which blow away citywide averages. There’s always something to stress over, but in a nutshell, most principals would gladly trade their problems for mine.

    The back is like 75-80% better, been doing lots of PT and seeing a great chiropractor (all massage and manipulation, no adjustments.) Not enough improvement to resume serious running but I can jog a bit and just restarted my gym membership. Now I just need to knock off the COVID 19 if u know what I’m sayin.

  52. The fun fact on all these trade scenario ideas is that the Knicks will get an Albatross overpaid ex/wounded star, fuck their rebuilt and will also give – Not Get- draft picks or youngsters.

    …which is not impossible tho considering our fame and history…

  53. Knicks671: I teach 5th grade at a school primarily full of military dependents, or military connected students. We started the year remote but are now face-to-face instruction due to “mission comes first”. It has been difficult trying to find a balance between ensuring students are safe through mitigation strategies and ppe put into place and giving them an opportunity to experience a typical school year in my classroom. (I generally do a lot of collaborate learning and center based approach to my instruction). On top of that juggling act, i have an 8th grader and a 5 month old. What even worse is my wife teaches kinder, and its almost impossible to tell a kinder to keep their mask on all day as well as not give hugs when they see her. So overall, the school year has been a big juggiling act.

    It is a delicate juggling act. Sounds like you have your hands full, but keep the faith and have fun with it. If this pandemic has reminded me of anything, it’s that all kids inherently love school, they just forget that they do sometimes…or get beaten down by bad pedagogy or by adults that don’t really believe in them or who aren’t there for them.

  54. That’s a very strange statistical approach

    FWIW EB is correct that there’s a demonstrable correlation there, but I also like his theory about that potentially not being useful information in this day and age.

    Having said that, Edwards also has a pretty decent FT% on a boatload of attempts. That correlation is strong too, and unlike 3PA there’s no reason to think any recent developments have messed with that. Between the attempts and the FT% I wouldn’t sweat Edwards’ NCAA 3PT%.

  55. Owen: “This is included in a number of models because it correlates with being a good shooter”

    That’s a very strange statistical approach

    It’s really not, I’d hazard a guess that most statistical models do it. You look for empirical correlations and then assume those correlations will continue to hold. Sometimes these correlations are actually a proxy for some other measure that the result actually depends on.

    Prior to the 3pt era, a player would not take nearly 8 3PA/G, like Edwards now does, if they weren’t a good shooter. So the only players who did take 8 3PA/G were the best shooters in the NCAA.

    Lots of 3PA helps distinguish between the opportunist taking 0.5-1 3PA/G and the shooting specialist taking 6 3PA/G despite the same 3P%. The opportunist will benefit more from a small sample size than the specialist does. Moreover, there may be some fundamental aspect of a player’s game that prevents the opportunist from being a specialist that will hamper them at the next level, e.g., their release is too slow and can’t get the shot off more frequently in college or at all in the NBA.

    For example, who do you feel more confident in as a shooter in the NBA, Obi Toppin (.417-3P%) or Aaron Nesmith (.410-3P%)?

    One averages 1.6-3PA/G, the other 6.3-3PA/G.

  56. How have we not devoted a thread to our latest utterly forgettable “city” alternate jerseys? Why do so many other teams get this right and we can’t?

  57. Haven’t posted in a while…

    I usually prefer green(e). But for the next 24 I prefer blue.

    Cole Anthony taught my nephew hoops a few times this past summer. Apparently he’s an extraordinarily nice kid. Still too risky for my taste on the shooting.

  58. Alan:
    How have we not devoted a thread to our latest utterly forgettable “city” alternate jerseys? Why do so many other teams get this right and we can’t?

    They posted another one yesterday that was more traditional that looked really good actually. Not sure if it was real or not. Was straightforward black with orange and blue lettering.

  59. i like those dunkin donut unis…a lot…it reminds me a bit of some of the heat’s stuff and GTA’s vice city colors…who’d have thunk neon pink could look so cool…

  60. Do people like this year’s city jersey more or less than last year’s?

    It don’t think it looks bad, but also kinda generic like you could find the same design on the internet already or sold on someone’s Instagram page

  61. good work z-man on re-habbing yourself…i have a feeling over the years you’re gonna be one of my go to sources for aging effectively :)

    i appreciate your thoughts on the schooling stuff a bunch…i’m proud of you man…second behind the whole family stuff, the work you do really matters…

    not like those folks who just play music or write words for a living…jesus, how easy can that be :P

    saw a quick twitter vid of michael keaton, age 69 doing a get out and vote thing…he looked really good…fuck yeah, 60 absolutely is the new 40…

    i hold you personally responsible z-man if i start lagging again on my health…

  62. You know, win or lose, Biden did a good job. I wish he had a bigger lead, but I would have taken his current position if you asked me back in February.

  63. geo if there’s any justice in this world, you will be immortal. Hopefully kindness will be your fountain of youth.

  64. My parents and students were able to stay up to date on their work and i feel i helped with some of the mental stress that happens at home when trying to teach your child and work from home at the same time.

    come to think of it – pretty much all he is doing is math and english…he’s supposed to log on with a music teacher once a week, but, her meeting link has never appeared…he does log on with a PE teacher which i absolutely love…it’s not just exercising, but, also health stuff – which i really really appreciate…

    he’s got a young teacher whom seems like she really cares…i’m thankful for that…

    – Clever.com
    – Google Classroom
    – i-Ready Math
    – i-Ready English
    – Kids Explorer
    – Think Central
    – Typing.com
    – Spelling City
    – Wonders Connect

    yeah, it’s a handful…

    awwwww, good for you Knicks671…yeah, the thought of a child you love not being successful at school cause you’re screwing up in proper parenting isn’t such a great feeling…

    for so many years it seems any blame for a child’s failure at school would first go to the teacher and faculty and then the child, but – right now the onus is most definitely on the parents…where a good bit of it belongs anyways…

    it’s all hands on deck now when it comes to completing his work…i just have to make sure to make a few strategic errors before completing and turning in any of his assignments…i kind of like doing the typing and i-Ready stuff…Think Central and Wonders Connect can be pretty challenging to explain…

  65. I like blue.

    Now, boys, we got three engines out; we got more holes in us than a horse trader’s mule; the radio’s gone and we’re leakin’ fuel, and if we’s flying any lower, why, we’d need sleigh bells on this thing. But we got one little bulge on them Rooskies, at this height, why, they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain’t gonna spot us on no radar screen.

    sometimes it’s best to face and embrace the inevitable…Waaaaa hooooo!

  66. My favorite color is black. (But my kids have informed the that I’m colorblind, so that may explain that).

    Also, I play guitar too. I’ve actually spent some quarantine time composing a musical. But, brands mean nothing to me. I can’t even tell you the kinds of guitars I play. To me it’s “the black one”, the “Canadian one”, and the “classical one”. Materialism is the bane of existence, man.

  67. i can’t exactly remember all the different names right now, but – i’m pretty we’ve had this who does music conversation before, and, i wanna say there’s at 10 or so regular posters whom play at least one instrument fairly well or like farfa – just got a magical voice…

    must be an affinity for statistics thing :)

    and just for the record, i’ve never learned to play anything…i sort of wanted to do a harmonic once, but, yeah i got bored quickly…

    my voice is pretty hideous, i sound like a dull lurch…

    two big life fails that always stand out…the first happened during a one act play festival during high school at stonybrook university (only been there a couple of times but i remember it as a beautiful campus)…we were doing some play where i was an old man driving my family in a car somewhere…i think it may have been some sad arthur miller shit…i made the mistake of hanging around in the crowd afterwards to hear critiques, i think a couple of people commented on just how much i sucked…

    i could sense what they said was true…

    the second was when i tried out for the choir when i got to college…i’m not sure what i sang, it had to have been awful though…i can only imagine the folks sitting there assessing applicants…that must have been entertaining to them, i’m sure i’d have laughed liked crazy after i left…again not so aware…

    when i get nervous i can hum marching songs pretty well…i got that going for me…

  68. Z-man: It is a delicate juggling act. Sounds like you have your hands full, but keep the faith and have fun with it. If this pandemic has reminded me of anything, it’s that all kids inherently love school, they just forget that they do sometimes…or get beaten down by bad pedagogy or by adults that don’t really believe in them or who aren’t there for them.

    I agree z man that this pandemic has put the love of school back on the fore front of alot of families mind. I can’t keep track of the number of times that I have heard parents and students express how much they appreciate what educators do.

    On the team color front i vote blue.

  69. Meanwhile, I may have spoken too soon on the impossibility of CP3 to either LA team. Macri’s newsletter today has fake trade proposals for both which allegedly work under the cap:

    Lakers: Danny Green, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (must opt in or agree to sign and trade), Avery Bradley, Quinn Cook and the 28th pick [trade made post-draft, with LAL picking for OKC at 28]

    Clippers: Clippers: Montrezl Harrell (sign and trade), Patrick Beverly, Ivica Zubac (or Lou Williams) and Landry Shamet

    He predicts the most the Knicks would offer is Randle (by all means!), Frank (my heart would hurt but I get it), and the 27th pick (don’t especially want to), and that either LA offer would blow that out of the water. So it comes down to whether either LA team wants Paul. Lakers just won a title, and had to strip themselves of depth and future assets to do it. Clips may be the more desperate team. Anyway, holding out hope one of those teams wants him, and that Rose doesn’t get sucked into a bidding war.

  70. What makes this even worse is that the answer to the Professor’s question sits right next to Mike Breen. How do we not have a Clyde so Fly inspired city uniform? A plaid or the cow-spots in blue and orange.

    I love the idea

  71. Why would Caldwell-Pope and especially Harrell agree to a sign and trade to go live in Oklahoma, though? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

    But a winning team of course makes more sense for Paul. I think the Clips would do it if they can make it work.

  72. Macri notes that the Lakers could send out Kuzma instead, which would be them going all-in on this iteration of the team for a very long time. Not that I think Kuzma is that great, but he and AD are their only remaining young-ish guys.

  73. As much as I’m not into the idea of getting Paul, it would be friggin annoying if the Lakers got another “star”.

    If we get Paul, I’m guessing they’ll go all in and try to add a stretch pf through free agency. I suppose they’d also have Paul groom DSJ to take over eventually (or else a newly drafted pg). A Paul/RJ/Okoro/Bertans/Mitch lineup would be a weird/interesting one.

  74. Now, boys, we got three engines out; we got more holes in us than a horse trader’s mule; the radio’s gone and we’re leakin’ fuel, and if we’s flying any lower, why, we’d need sleigh bells on this thing. But we got one little bulge on them Rooskies, at this height, why, they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain’t gonna spot us on no radar screen.

    Dr Stangelove is a great shout, geo, but I think if you really want to capture the angst and chaos of today, this is the clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2iIq3zaP6k

  75. ***Clippers: Montrezl Harrell (sign and trade), Patrick Beverly, Ivica Zubac (or Lou Williams) and Landry Shamet***

    I feel like I’ve seen this Chris Paul trade before…

  76. I like blue too. Solid color right now.

    I understand the correlation on the upside with attempts. But if a guy shoots below 30% on a lot of attempts I struggle to believe that’s a good sign.

    I did get a much better sense of Edwards as a prospect though. The guy is more like a pocket Zion than I realized. He strikes me as the kind of athletic freak who might underperform at the next level because he hasn’t actually learned to play the game that well as a two sport athlete who could excel on physical tools alone. But maybe that’s wrong.

  77. Eh, CP3 to the Lakers doesn’t really bother me. They’re favorites with or without him and the Lakers don’t really affect us all that much. I know its kind of a rivalry because of the 70’s but we only play them twice a year. Let CP3 get his ring.

    But it would be hilarious if he went back to the Clippers. I’d actually prefer that because those Clips teams were really good but could never break through. Would be nice if he could get his title with them.

  78. Can anyone explain to me why so many lottery teams, ours included, seem so in love with Obi Toppin? Other than “dumb team teams are the ones who wind up high in the lottery to begin with”? Isn’t he just Julius Randle 2.0?

  79. I don’t think Rose will get into a bidding war. I think he wants CP3 but its just one of several paths they’re considering and it isn’t an absolute obsession. I don’t think we’re wanting CP3 to “go all in” but more as a stop gap and mentor and if the cost is too much youth and picks it kind of defeats the point.

    Plus there is also the FVV option, which I like a lot more even though we’ll have to overpay to get him. He’s younger and cheaper and only costs us cap space. Plus he can play the 2 as well, so FVV doesn’t prevent us from drafting a PG (RJ can slide to the 3). FVV addresses a lot of our needs. It would definitely be an overpay, though. But unlike Randle, its an overpay for a player that fits the modern NBA more and addresses specific needs for us (PG play, 3 point shooting). Plus, he’s pretty good on defense too.

  80. The Lakers vaporizing their wing depth for CP3 doesn’t make much sense to me. Lebron is going to have the ball in his hands when the stakes are highest anyways, he needs guys to handle the tough defensive assignments and make 3s. That kind of deal would leave them with nearly their entire wing rotation made up of minimum guys. I think they’ll be looking for a bit more ball handling this summer because Rondo isn’t necessarily reliable but this doesn’t seem like the right move unless Lebron just really want to play with CP3.

    The Clippers one makes a lot more sense to me but it is reliant on Harrell to make the money work I think. No idea if he’d be interested in that

    The Nets are obviously the funniest outcome though. Watching CP3 & Kyrie try to share the car keys at PG while blending their competing forms of insanity together is the stuff sitcoms are made of. This is obviously the scenario to root for.

  81. Prediction: Edwards @ #1, Wiseman @ #2 (it would be nuts for GS to pass on him, he’s NBA-ready.). Then it becomes dicey. LaMelo might fall based on his poor interview performance. I see 3-4-5-6-7 being some combo of Advija-Hayes-Okongwu-Toppin-LaMelo. That would leave us Hali (yay!) Okoro (ok) and Vassell (yuck!).

  82. Randle wasn’t an overpay though, at least it didn’t seem so at the time. I can’t imagine anyone thinks FVV is an instafix for the Knicks and we’d need to overpay significantly. I imagine Rose would have to offer a significant poison pill to get him and given the, uh, uncertainty of the future Knicks that seems highly likely to bite them in the ass.

  83. Alan:
    Can anyone explain to me why so many lottery teams, ours included, seem so in love with Obi Toppin? Other than “dumb team teams are the ones who wind up high in the lottery to begin with”? Isn’t he just Julius Randle 2.0?

    I agree with you in general that defensively compromised big man is a very flawed foundation for a prospect. I think the theory of Toppin involves him being able to shoot enough that even if he’s not a rim protector at all you can still work him more naturally into lineups because he can blend more easily with a center. And I guess if you really like him you think his athleticism is enough that the offensive upside is more Amare than Julius Randle.

    That said I wouldn’t conclude that any teams “love” any prospects in this draft just because they’re being linked with them or even end up picking them. Every prospect in this draft from #1 on down has glaring holes..

  84. The number of 3 point attempts you take could correlate to your “versatility” at shooting them.

    One player could be great from the right corner but terrible from everywhere else. His percentage could be high if he focuses on his specialty, but his volume would be very low and he’d be irrelevant in a lot of games.

    One player could be great spotting up and stepping into a 3 in rhythm from a few locations, but horrible off the dribble. He could have a tremendous percentage but be easy to shut down.

    A player can be average from every location, spotting up, off the dribble, quick release etc.. and as long as his high volume is mostly eliminating long tough 2s with his 3s, he’s correct to be shooting them and adding value because not everyone can do what he is doing.

    But I think you’d have to scout the player, his teammates, and very detailed stats to see what’s really going on.

  85. I think the best move is draft whoever they think is BPA (I have no idea) and run last year’s lineup back out with the rooks and less PFs. See how it shakes out, eye on next year’s draft. If they can reasonably take on money for a pick do so. I wonder if Rose feels empowered to do so little though..

  86. Strat, I understand all that. And maybe teams are parsing all those attempts and realizing he shoots exceptionally well from two spots on the floor, or something useful like that.

    To me though, when you have an anomalous data point like a guy shooting a ton from three while shooting really badly, I think it should be handled with care.

  87. The Clippers one makes a lot more sense to me but it is reliant on Harrell to make the money work I think. No idea if he’d be interested in that

    It seems close to impossible to make either LA deal work salary wise.

    However, I would not be shocked if the Clippers move on from Harrell and Beverley. Harrell is a great energy guy, but he was exposed in the playoffs and I’m pretty sure they know they need a legit PG to be running the show in Clipperland.

    Everyone knows I love Beverley and see him as one of the models for Frank, but he belongs on a team like Dallas, the Lakers, or even the 76ers where the team already has a point forward or on a team using a more balanced playmaking approach. Then you aren’t looking for a ball dominating, penetrating, scoring, and playmaking PG. You are looking for an elite defender, secondary playmaker, 3 point shooter for spacing, high energy etc… player, I think Leonard has already said as much in LA.

    There may be no way to pull a deal like that off, but CP3 to the Clippers is exactly what the doctor and Leonard ordered.

  88. Owen:
    Strat, I understand all that. And maybe teams are parsing all those attempts and realizing he shoots exceptionally well from two spots on the floor, or something useful like that.

    To me though, when you have an anomalous data point like a guy shooting a ton from three while shooting really badly, I think it should be handled with care.

    I agree.

    I wasn’t making a case for it. I was just throwing out possible explanations for the thinking.

  89. Grocer, I’m inclined to go with that conservative strategy as well. Miller had the team playing at a much higher level even after Morris was gone. So running back the same team with our new picks and hope for improvement with Thibs and the development of the youngsters is probably the least sexy but smartest approach. My only caveat with that is I’d maybe try to move on from Payton and get a similar PG who can shoot better from outside (like DJ or Teague) as a stopgap. Even if we draft a PG, I do not want to hand over the reigns to them full time from game one and would like that insurance of a vet pg. I’d even be fine with sticking with Payton as he would be expiring. You could always bench him if Frank takes off or if our rookie PG draft pick is more ready than we thought.

  90. It’s not crazy to think Toppin will be able to shoot in the NBA. If he can, then he fits in nicely as a stretch 4. He honestly isn’t a terrible pick in a year when few top picks put up good numbers and he did.

  91. Vets…I’d keep Taj, Bullock (who I think could net us a pick at the trade deadline), and possibly Payton.

    Randle I would look to move if you can (in a deal for another pick) but if not stick with him too.

    Move on from Ellington and Portis. If we don’t make any big FA signings and just cut those two, we’d have some cap space to potentially use during the season if a deal became available.

  92. Alan:
    Can anyone explain to me why so many lottery teams, ours included, seem so in love with Obi Toppin? Other than “dumb team teams are the ones who wind up high in the lottery to begin with”? Isn’t he just Julius Randle 2.0?

    It’s so confusing that it makes me wonder if it’s true. Maybe teams are saying they love Toppin to throw other teams off their scent?

    I’m afraid he’s going to be staring at us at 8.

  93. The poll results have me wondering… do we actually have 79 unique voters here? That would mean a whole lot of lurkers.

  94. Alan: Other than “dumb team teams are the ones who wind up high in the lottery to begin with”?

    “Marvin, for us, is a better fit and a better player. A great talent. An easy choice for us.” – Vlade Divac

  95. Tons of people come to this blog. How do you think Mike K built that Bahamas beach house?

    Toppin seems like the next Morris brother to me.

  96. The poll results have me wondering… do we actually have 79 unique voters here? That would mean a whole lot of lurkers.

    Oh, we have lots of lurkers.

  97. Bullock (who I think could net us a pick at the trade deadline),

    Bullock couldn’t get them a draft pick last year when teams would be acquiring him for last season and his cheap contract this season. They’re not getting a draft pick for him this year, when he’s an impending free agent.

  98. Toppin does just about everything on offense except rebound – he’s an underrated passer and ballhandler. Problem is, he is probably best defending 5s, so that would probably be a weird fit with Mitch. Toppin and Precious would actually make for a great frontcourt pair.

    I felt good about going after FVV for 23 mil, but then I tho: “why not just draft Grant Riller?” Sure, he’s a worse defender, but will probably be fairly similar on offense.

    Payton sucks, but one year of him at 8 mil versus 4 years of FVV at 23 mil? That makes it seem like we should just sit tight.

  99. De’Anthony Melton is available. What the heck is his market? He seems like the kind of guy you could fantasize about picking up cheap, a true heir to Tony Allen, but somehow will end up getting 4/48.

    Isn’t he already the guy we think Frank can be?

  100. Payton sucks, but one year of him at 8 mil versus 4 years of FVV at 23 mil? That makes it seem like we should just sit tight.

    Yeah. Everything swift said, except I just don’t see a strong case for swapping out Payton for a different stopgap. Could we get better shooting? Probably. Does it matter for next year? I dunno, do we want worse draft odds due to someone who’s explicitly temporary? To go with a longer commitment?

  101. if you really want to capture the angst and chaos of today

    i’ll tell ya hubie, i think we’re of a similar mind on a lot of things – this is definitely not the week to pick to stop sniffing glue…

  102. Oh, we have lots of lurkers.

    i was a lurker once…

    it’s been some time now, but i remember how loudly the honorable cock jowles voice stood out to me, it was really hard not to notice…not so much for the back and forth stuff, but the ability to recall, quickly reason and explain shit in minute detail with an over abundance of patience…that’s just a very unique combination…it’s why i started posting…

    then and always jowles words come out spoken as ned beatty playing the judge roy bean in the tv movie Streets of Laredo back from ’95…

    threw me off a bit to hear you singing jowles – cuz, that don’t math up with beatty’s appearance in the movie: https://i2.wp.com/myfavoritewesterns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/streets-of-laredo-ned-beatty-with-winchester-73.png

    and, ned’s voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuBe93FMiJc

    in the whole quality of living life scale, i’ve always appreciated folks driven to get the most out of their journey…You gave me life, Now show me how to live

    back in the day i remember hanging out in atlanta’s “underground”…there was this one club that printed these Live Life shirts…and there it is…i’ve always been a bit of a homebody, but, it brings me joy to see and hear about folks living life to the fullest…

    you mentioned the beatles book earlier, finally doing some reading myself, going through the hunger games for the first time…not sure why, but, i absolutely love the movies, seen them each countless times…nice thing about the book is it explains the geography a little bit better…

    how is today not a national holiday…

  103. Brian Cronin: Bullock couldn’t get them a draft pick last year when teams would be acquiring him for last season and his cheap contract this season. They’re not getting a draft pick for him this year, when he’s an impending free agent.

    I think this depends on how good he is this season. Bullock struggled last year but I expect him to bounce back since he isn’t recovering from injury. The NBA is such a ‘what have you done for me lately?’ league that half a season shooting his career .385 will probably return a 1st. It was hard to notice surrounded by a Knicks roster full of the worst players in the NBA, but Bullock was pretty awful himself last year.

    Of course, it also depends on which teams are in contention and think they need another shooter.

  104. Yeah, I mean he had barely played when the trade deadline happened last year. I don’t think its a really accurate portrayal of his value. If he shoots his career numbers, he’s a nice little pick up for a playoff team. The deals that happen at the trade deadline each year are so dependent on what a specific team making a playoff push needs at that time. And with his salary being so low, I don’t see the harm of having another veteran shooter available would do us.

  105. Bullock is so cheap that I’m fine bringing him back, as well. He just isn’t getting you a first round pick.

  106. Grocer, my swapping of Payton for DJ or Teague…is that improved shooting REALLY going to catapult us to being a much better team? And I would want a similar 1 1 deal (team option) for whoever we replace Payton with.

    While I don’t think we should draft for fit around RJ and Mitch, I do think there is value to finding free agents that fit with them so we can see how they play in lineups that are best optimized for their current skill set and reflect a more modern NBA offense. I don’t want to chase after meaningless wins off the backs of vets who won’t be here in 2 years. But I also do want to put the youngsters in a position to be competitive and win some games. I’d gladly sacrifice a higher draft pick if we get to see RJ, Mitch and our draft picks grow and thrive next year. That’s development.

    our 1 and 1 strategy last year actually wasn’t a horrible approach at all from a cap space management perspective. It got us an extra first round pick this year too. The problem was signing 8 power forwards along with a PG who can’t shoot at all.

  107. Now the Celtics are supposedly offering all their draft picks to move up: 14, 26, and 30. That would be fun as a Knick GM to pick four 1st rounders…

    Also, Charlotte is said to be seriously considering Okongwu at #3.

  108. I read The Hunger Games last year. Watched the movie and decided I didn’t need the sequel to either one. The shameless cliffhanger thing doesn’t do much for me. Also, what the fuck were they thinking when they cast that dude for Peeta opposite Jennifer Lawrence?

  109. Jowles, I saw all three of The Hunger Game movies (my wife was obsessed with the books). She did not like the first one either. I was indifferent because I didn’t really know anything about them. But I remember the second and third one being much better than the first one.

  110. I mean, just with the 4 first rounders, the odds are probably pretty good that at least one of them will end up being as good or better than who you would pick at #8.

  111. Are they offering all three to move up to 8, or would they want to go higher? If so, I would definitely take that deal, just because of how much the 4-15 or so prospects seem clumped together.

  112. do we hate cole anthony at 14, too?

    i really think i’d rather have the 8th pick this year. We’ll be able to pick someone good there, for sure.

  113. I’d take Cole Anthony in the 2nd round.

    Also, Charlotte is said to be seriously considering Okongwu at #3.

    I feel bad for the kid. Here are the top draftees, per VORP, of the Bobcats era.

    Kemba Walker, 27.8
    Jared Dudley, 11.1
    Ray Felton, 10.1
    DJ Augustin, 8.0
    Emeka Okafor, 6.8

  114. who are the 12 other people who voted for Patrick Williams? I’m buying the hype. Not to the point that i want him over Halliburton or Hayes. But I would be irrationally excited about him.

    I’d rather trade down for him and pick up another pick, but it doesn’t seem like he’d be available at 14.

  115. what the fuck were they thinking when they cast that dude for Peeta opposite Jennifer Lawrence?

    OH MY GOD!!!

    josh hutcherson absolutely makes the movies work…way way underrated within the cast…perfect foil for liam hemsworth…

    it’s way hokey shit, i know…not only is it hokey, but the target audience probably couldn’t legally buy alcohol…i’m not sure what hooks me to the story…who cares, better to just enjoy…

    i was thinking of this yesterday, i can’t really think of many other sci-fi/fantasy stories with such a compelling heroine…who in this instance is purposefully portrayed to be an uncompelling character…

    closest i can think of is River Tam from Firefly

    now that i’m thinking of it, ate breakfast, did some work, smoked a little, good time to grab a beer, head to the garden, visit with the plants and read…

  116. 14, 26 and 30 would be a lot for 8 I think, particularly in this draft which it seems to me has an unusually flat talent distribution. But Ainge does have a history of making that kind of offer if there’s a player he’s in love with – didn’t he offer like 4 first rounders to move up and draft Justise Winslow? My guess would be that they’d be chasing Wiseman/Okongwu and if KOC’s mock today is to be believed Okongwu may be climbing and there’s a decent chance both will be off the board at #8. But who knows.

  117. over abundance of patience

    I am very patient with the following groups of people:

    K-5 kids
    new chess players
    mothers doing their best to wrangle their kids in public
    old people when they are not driving vehicles or wearing MAGA hats
    servers and bartenders
    English-language learners
    college-aged tutees who want to learn, rather than have their papers proofread and wordlessly corrected

    Patience? On Knickerblogger? No no, sir. No.

  118. old people when they are not driving vehicles or wearing MAGA hats

    I’m only 46, but I’m starting to feel like the former (and the latter can go to hell).

    Speaking of which, are snow tires an absolute must in upstate NY?

  119. Buckling up for 1000 posts on whether Peeta was cast right.

    Didn’t like that franchise much in any iteration.

  120. I feel close to nothing about that book/movie series. But I will say that, for at least one moment in time, Jennifer Lawrence was a wonderful sight to behold.

  121. you seem to be driven to get things right and you seem to enjoy to teach others to do things right – both take discipline and patience…measured intensity :)

    KB is more of an environment to exercise and have fun…

  122. swift, yeah, I don’t feel all that strongly about it I just don’t want them to chase a contract like FVV’s will likely be. See who’s still kicking around after the draft, maybe. I expect good players to develop regardless of who they play with, and I think some consistency might also be nice. Rose probably needs to do something just to be seen as having done something.

  123. I’m only 46, but I’m starting to feel like the former

    i wanna say that’s about the time i first started to really notice i was aging…gotta have a health strategy moving forward ess-dog…there’s a lot of good info easily accessible on successfully aging, toughest part is remembering you’re only human and doing the right stuff…

  124. “Speaking of which, are snow tires an absolute must in upstate NY?”

    Pretty much yes. If you like car twerking a lot, you can go without. But there are always a few days every winter where you’re “Oh yeah” about them. And if you’re off the grid (or live on a hill), they’re a real must.

    Jennifer Lawrence may be the actress with the most malleable features (or completely different looks) out there. I have been shocked more than once to find out it’s her in some movie or other.

  125. I’m 42 and am trying to get back into shape. Its a struggle.

    I’ve never been the healthiest dude but when I was still in NYC, the last few years (2010 to 2013), I got real serious about going to the gym….like 5 or 6 times a week. Running, lifting weights, taking classes. I got cut (not ripped) and was in fantastic shape. That was mid 30’s. Since then I’ve been on and off with exercising but nothing too consistent. Now in quarantine I have been doing daily burn 4 or 5 times a week but the difference between my strength and stamina now and even 8 years ago in my mid 30’s is astounding. I eat healthier than ever but keeping the energy levels up right now is tough, especially during this extended lockdown. I also think with everything my wife and I went through at the beginning of the summer, its just zapped a lot of our energy. We’re doing ok but maintaining it has been tough.

    I feel good about today though. I don’t want to jinx anything or be naive and think the worst couldn’t happen, but I am hopeful we’re going to turn it around tonight.

  126. gotta have a health strategy moving forward ess-dog

    Amen, geo. I just gave up sugar last week — that’s the next one after booze, cigarettes, gluten, and all the other fun stuff (I think air is next.)

  127. I will never understand the gluten-free craze. Like yeah, we all feel like garbage after gorging on enriched grains. But aside from the trickery of eating less carbs (and losing weight) simply by avoiding wheat, I don’t see the actual reasoning behind it.

    This is coming from a guy who lived with a Celiac suffering landlord who has had to be hospitalized several times from accidental ingestion of a breadcrumb.

  128. reading your words made my day swift…i’m really happy to hear yourself and your wife are doing well…

    good to see you’re such a workout enthusiast…i still love walking (since i was a kid it’s always been my favorite type of exercise)…i’m creeping up on 60 pretty quickly and the thing i’ve had the most challenge with maintaining is my strength training…i just don’t do it enough/at all…

    yeah, i’m hopeful are country wakes up today from this everything trump bullshit…i long for the old days of just regular ol’ washington corruption and not some of the insane stuff we’ve seen the last four years…

    very very cool to see the crazy amount of early voting that took place…i’m cautiously optimistic…

  129. Gluten-free craze is great for those with Celiac’s who now have more food options and restaurants all carry food for them. Gluten-free craze is not great for anyone else, namely those participating in it and paying excessive money for food that tastes like cardboard.

    I would never describe Jowles as patient. His precision in explaining ideas was more a passion inspired by righteous mathematical fury.

    Peeta sucks.

  130. righteous mathematical fury.

    hahahaha :)

    listen man, the hunger games is not for us old people…it’s like a dystopian teen fantasy series…peeta’s acting was fine…his character progression was even more extreme than katniss’…

    granted, i may not have truly appreciated the character until about my 20th viewing or so, but, it totally works…not his fault, harrelson, hoffman, sutherland and moore got all the fun characters to act…

  131. I will never understand the gluten-free craze

    Yeah, for me, that has morphed into just not eating processed foods, which is most bread unless you make your own.

    The difference between my strength and stamina now and even 8 years ago in my mid 30’s is astounding.

    I went through the same thing, Swift. Got back in shape in my early 40s with boxing, running, lifting, HIIT workouts, and more but hit a wall a few years ago. Now I’m on a “slow and steady” regimen of long-distance cardio and bodyweight/band exercises. It’s all I have time for anyway.

    One thing I’ve noticed recently is that I literally cannot eat enough protein. If I skip protein at any meal, I feel it immediately and for sure in my workouts. Also, sleep is huge.

    Edit: also, I really have no idea how vegetarians do it.

  132. ess-dog: Speaking of which, are snow tires an absolute must in upstate NY?

    I would say yes, or at the very least, get high-quality 4-season tires, like Nokian WRs. Goodyear Assurance Weather-ready are fine if you have a SUV w AWD.

    The good news is that they generally do a fine job of clearing/salting/sanding roads anyplace above Westchester county, but there is really no substitute for snow tires or Nokians.

  133. Sleep! My ability during max-effort days is so dependent on how well I slept. My estimated 1RM is about a 420 lbs. hex deadlift right now, but if I’m on <6 hours sleep, good luck getting 350 off the ground more than once. My left hand grip is my weakest point right now (I lift beltless and without wraps or straps) and even that suffers when I'm running on fumes.

    I also want to be clear that it is Lady Jowles (who is likely lurking, hi Ms. J!) who is the valedictorian full-scholarship math wizard, and she will never use her powers to make an argument about basketball. I bailed out of my math minor because I didn't want to take whatever came after DiffEqs, mostly because, as a half-invested English/History double major taking elective math classes for "fun," DiffEqs wrecked my shit.

    Yeah, for me, that has morphed into just not eating processed foods, which is most bread unless you make your own.

    Exactly. My sister-in-law just did a successful round of Whole 30, and I view it more as a verbose, pseudo-scientific plan to artificially limit caloric intake (no dairy, no sugar, no rice, wheat, no beans = good luck replacing all of those macros!) than a proven micronutrient diet. P90X is the workout analogue for Whole30 — “muscle confusion” is a bunch of bullshit, but if you follow their low-carb, high-protein, whole-food diet and do their insane 90-day program, you will absolutely lose bodyfat and gain enough muscle to “look cut.”

  134. I’m 42 and am trying to get back into shape. Its a struggle.

    I’ve never been the healthiest dude but when I was still in NYC, the last few years (2010 to 2013), I got real serious about going to the gym….like 5 or 6 times a week. Running, lifting weights, taking classes. I got cut (not ripped) and was in fantastic shape. That was mid 30’s. Since then I’ve been on and off with exercising but nothing too consistent. Now in quarantine I have been doing daily burn 4 or 5 times a week but the difference between my strength and stamina now and even 8 years ago in my mid 30’s is astounding.

    Awww man, not what I wanted to hear. I started working out consistently a few months ago for the first time since I played football in college (I’m 35). I expected it to be difficult getting back in shape after a decade-plus hiatus but it honestly hasn’t been so bad. Putting on muscle has been a bit easier than getting my cardio up. Probably need to change up how I ingest THC… But from what I’m hearing here I only have a couple more years of my athletic peak before it all goes downhill :)

    Any other mid-30’s guy got any tips about getting into a martial art? Been looking into judo since it plays to my strengths as a former O-lineman but worried that all the throws (and landings) would wreak havoc on my back. Not flexible, so anything with high kicks would be out. Is boxing a good idea? Don’t want to get concussed weekly at some dingy gym tho.

  135. Exactly. My sister-in-law just did a successful round of Whole 30, and I view it more as a verbose, pseudo-scientific plan to artificially limit caloric intake (no dairy, no sugar, no rice, wheat, no beans = good luck replacing all of those macros!) than a proven micronutrient diet. P90X is the workout analogue for Whole30 — “muscle confusion” is a bunch of bullshit, but if you follow their low-carb, high-protein, whole-food diet and do their insane 90-day program, you will absolutely lose bodyfat and gain enough muscle to “look cut.”

    This is how I view all diet fads. Gluten free (except for people with celiac), paleo, keto, intermittent fasting, etc. If you’re trying to lose weight and they help you stay in a calorie deficit, great! Otherwise there’s nothing special about any of them.

  136. Jowles, you really haven’t gotten too upset over anything probably since Ruru left

    Or maybe it was since you started smoking weed

    Or maybe since you met Lady Jowles

    Regardless, I commend you on being less combative about basketball stuff

  137. In the same boat. Was in good shape before the pandemic and it all fell apart. No reason for it – well some – but was so generally demotivating. Been trying to get back on it and it’s very difficult without the motivation provided by a bunch of 20 year olds smoking you in some class.

    I have some experience with the MMA stuff and my feeling is that you have to be a little dumb to take it up in your 40s in a serious way. It’s a real injury risk. I feel the same way about pickup basketball, which was my favorite thing in the world to do for 20 years.

    I know someone with a dairy allergy and that was the craziest thing ever. Went to the hospital with even trace exposure to anything.

  138. bobneptune disagrees

    This is how I view all diet fads. Gluten free (except for people with celiac), paleo, keto, intermittent fasting, etc. If you’re trying to lose weight and they help you stay in a calorie deficit, great! Otherwise there’s nothing special about any of them.

    Keto is some crazy shit, and real. If I had to lose 100 pounds as quickly as possible, I’d do keto (and probably want to murder someone for the first two weeks). I just feel bad for all the severely-overweight people who try to do it and end up not being in ketosis and gorging on cheese and bacon anyway. But keto is also what bodybuilders have been doing before competitions for decades, so it’s not like it’s anything new. Just a more recent adoption of Big Diet into their stable of product offerings.

    IF has some legit science behind it — periodic fasting is certainly good for you — but mostly it’s just easier to be in deficit if you’re not eating for 16 hours at a time. If a person wanted to lose weight, I’d tell them to quit consuming liquid sugar and try fasting for 14-16 hours 4x a week. It’s the easiest “diet” I’ve ever tried, since you just… don’t do anything.

  139. Yes, the kinder, gentler Jowles is really a delight. Even when he’s dumping on my problematic fave Frankie Smokes.

  140. Sleep has been hard since my daughter passed. Going to sleep is fine (usually) but I can’t seem to get more than a few hours in before I wake up. And I’ve had some really vivid and sad dreams about her that have woken me up. Then I just sit there and replay the events from June over and over again.

    I will say. I feel weaker and slower bc of this experience but I also feel more empathetic and kinder. My goals and priorities have really shifted. In many ways my dreams for life have become less grand but I just want to live a peaceful life with my wife, get a little house one day, write and make art when I can and maybe if we’re lucky one day have another kid. It’s been really hard but I have learned that I am stronger than I thought. I can take the biggest guy punch life can give you and still get up every day and do my work, read and write and sometimes even laugh and smile a bit. I’ve gotten a lot of comfort reading the Stoics.

  141. That’s one hell of a book recommendation swift. I’d say “courage” and “strength” but I think you’ve got way more than me already.

  142. Anyone got any recent book recommends?

    What kind of thing d’you wanna read?

    Swift, hope you’re taking care of yourself as best you can, especially given how hard it must be to find in-person support during all of this bullshit. The Knicks sure as shit aren’t gonna bring you joy, but there’s a lot in this world that can, and will someday.

  143. This blog certainly has therapeutic qualities…aside from the occasional recommendation to ingest bleach

  144. We’ve been doing some updating in our house, and I stumbled on a copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I read it in my early 20’s and it really resonated with me then. Might give it a re-read just to see if it still does.

  145. I’m up for anything fiction. Non if it’s particularly interesting. No, I can’t define that. Just picked up The Hollow Places, good so far.

  146. Now the Celtics are supposedly offering all their draft picks to move up: 14, 26, and 30. That would be fun as a Knick GM to pick four 1st rounders…

    This is a weird draft to want to trade up that badly, given that its reputation is as one without superstars but with reasonable players late in the draft and also as a draft where players could slip a long way because there is so much disagreement about who to pick. But the Celtics are the team that gave up Fultz to get Tatum, so they are no dummies when it comes to the draft. Either there is one player they love, and I’d love to know who it is, or they just don’t feel they have enough roster spots for three new players.

  147. Solar Power Finance Without the Jargon is lit.

    I just finished Gods of the Upper Air. Gave me some deep insight into how racist the scientific establishment was 100 years ago. Not a recommendation, don’t think many people will like that, but it tells a pretty good story about Boas, Margaret Mead, and the rise of anthropology.

    The books I have successfully recommended most I think are the Bernie Gunther novels. (Can’t believe the Kingkiller Chronicles were a whiff.) Follows a detective in Weimar and then Nazi Germany and thereafter and are just awesome escapist fun.The author died a few years back, way too young. Berlin Noir, the first three books, will run you 12.99 on kindle.

    I have read a ton of books in the pandemic and can’t say I have loved any of them, been disappointing.

  148. Swift, I can’t imagine how you must feel. Even being separated from my kids for a month or so because of Covid has been a struggle at times.

    Sometimes exercise helps cleanse you. It did that for me after my divorce. I went HAM thinking that if it didn’t kill me, it would get me through (and both felt like good options at the time.) Instead of killing me, it got me ripped, and I found love again. Go figure. Making art can also be really helpful.

    Thanks for the tire recs, Z-man. My SUV seems fine, but I just got a lightly used car with front-wheel drive and even in light rain I feel like I’m on driving on ice skates. It was then I realized that I’ve driven all- or 4-wheel drive vehicles since I was 16.

    Re: trading up, I can see why the Celts would want a shot at Okongwu (the next Bam). I doubt the Knicks want to do it, though. As much as I like Mitch, it would be kinda cool to get LaMelo AND Okongwu out of this draft, since they are friends and were high school teammates. Seems very unlikely, though.

  149. I’m up for anything fiction. Non if it’s particularly interesting. No, I can’t define that. Just picked up The Hollow Places, good so far.

    I was pretty shocked by how fast-paced Private Empire (ExxonMobil) was. Reads almost like a novel in sections, verified by a friend who read it on my rec, and is by one of the most respected geopolitics writers in the US, Steve Coll. It’s pretty big, though, so if you get bogged down by large books, might not be for you.

  150. Now the Celtics are supposedly offering all their draft picks to move up: 14, 26, and 30. That would be fun as a Knick GM to pick four 1st rounders…

    The Celtics are probably 1 player away from competing for a championship. They could be even closer than that given they still have a lot of upside with the existing squad. There are times when trading down or using the shotgun approach probably makes sense, but generally I’d rather trade up towards where the best talent is. It’s the stars that are toughest players to get. They may see someone that can contribute in year 1 or 2.

  151. Grocer:
    I’m up for anything fiction.Non if it’s particularly interesting.No, I can’t define that.Just picked up The Hollow Places, good so far.

    Haven’t read The Hollow Places myself but I can recommend Piranesi by Susanna Clarke and Transcendant Kingdom by Yaa Gyasi.

  152. I think this is the part of the night were we all just pretend we aren’t thinking about Miami.

    Private Empire was too much for me. And the fact that XOM has gone from juggernaut to dropped from the Dow also-ran takes away something from it. His wife’s book was pretty good but I think got the big picture wrong.

  153. I’m up for anything fiction.

    i love this question…it really does though depend on you a lot…if you haven’t already visited the seven kingdoms a Song of Ice and Fire is brilliant and completely distracting…more seven kingdom stuff would be the Tales of Dunk and Egg, which is simply a “kinder, “gentler” grrm westeros story…

    sci fi feel good: Rama by arthur c. clarke…hell, anything by clarke will help restore your faith in man a bit…

    cowboy adventure: Dead Man’s Walk…the world will cease to exist around you once you slip in to the world…

  154. This is a weird draft to want to trade up that badly, given that its reputation is as one without superstars but with reasonable players late in the draft and also as a draft where players could slip a long way because there is so much disagreement about who to pick. But the Celtics are the team that gave up Fultz to get Tatum, so they are no dummies when it comes to the draft. Either there is one player they love, and I’d love to know who it is, or they just don’t feel they have enough roster spots for three new players.

    I think it’s about roster spots for them. They have to get rid of people to use all three of those picks.

  155. Or maybe since you met Lady Jowles

    what is the cost of living a life of happiness?

    if love is not the answer – i misunderstood the question…

    howdy lady j :)

  156. no big referendum to come…this is gonna be gnat’s ass tight…i should have known better, still, i am kind of surprised…

    Well, boys, I reckon this is it. New-q-lure combat, toe-to-toe with the Rooskies. Now look, boys. I ain’t much of a hand at makin’ speeches. But I got a pretty fair idea that somethin’ doggoned important’s going on back there. And I got a fair idea of the kind of personal emotions that some of you fellas may be thinkin’. Heck, I reckon you wouldn’t even be human beins if you didn’t have some pretty strong personal feelings about nuclear combat. But I want you to remember one thing – the folks back home is a countin’ on ya, and by golly, we ain’t about to let ’em down. Tell ya somethin’ else – this thing turns out to be half as important as I figure it just might be, I’d say that you’re all in line for some important promotions an’ personal citations when this thing’s over with. That goes for every last one of ya, regardless of your race, color, or your creed. Now, let’s get this thing on the hump. We got some flyin’ to do.

  157. Soooo… my summation of reading these posts is that many of you are somewhere between “active lifestyle” fit and Hugh Jackman ripped and that you have a healthy appetite for intellectual non-fiction.

    <<<checks his scale. *sigh*

    Guess I'll go reread The Four Hour Workweek… lol

  158. Thanks everybody! Owen, Kingkiller Cronicals wasn’t a wiff, it’s just got so much penetration that most everybody who’d like it has read it years ago. With your others I’ll check out. I’ve had the one mentioned to me before and I’m well into Babylon Berlin so yes on the third too. Vincoug, both on the list. Geo, I’ve read the first two.. I regret the second

  159. ***my summation of reading these posts is that many of you are somewhere between “active lifestyle” fit and Hugh Jackman ripped and that you have a healthy appetite for intellectual non-fiction.***

    When it’s not a pandemic compounded by election anxiety, i am usually very active. I’ve run many marathons, Boston multiple times, and compete in Olympic distance and half-Ironman triathlons. But, mostly now, I just sit around, drink beer, and post on Knickerblogger. (Would prefer not doing this for another 4 years, though)

  160. It looks like Christian Wood actually is a top free agent target for the Knicks.

    The sample size against starters is too small to know much about his quality, but at least they recognize they need to pair Mitch with a stretch PF and have identified a young player that might be able to do the job given that Randle is not a good fit. I guess it’s a matter of price and how good he actually is besides in garbage time minutes off the bench.

  161. Uncle Geo, now we’re at the point in that clip where we’re racing to gate 8, gate 9, gate 10….

    But it seems like America is going to pull a Ted Stryker in the end and get this thing landed with broken wheels but no one dead.

  162. I’ve gotten to read a lot more during quarantine, which has been great.

    I started tackling The Neopalitan Novels. I’ve sung the praises of the HBO show “My Brilliant Friend” before and these are the books those are based on. They are excellent.

    I’ve also started going through a greatest novels of all time list and starting to read the ones on that list that I’ve never tackled.

    I just read a book called “Under The Volcano” that was absolutely mesmerizing. Definitely kind of a slow read at first but just a beautifully written story set in Mexico in 1939. I also read “Things Fall Apart” which was excellent as well. Set in an Nigerian village before right when colonialism started.

    I’m going to read “The Invisible Man” next which I somehow missed in school.

    The big 3 that I’m going to attempt after that are “Don Quixote”, “War and Peace” and “Ulysses.” Thinking those three might take up most of 2021!

  163. Went for another shootaround this morning (9:30-11:00) to a different playground.The 4th.
    First was locked. Second was reconstructed. 3rd was a school (only for afternoon jumping over the fence break ins).
    The 4th across a semetary!
    After 3 bunches of 100 shoots i solidified my almost 20% and I’m ready for the next level.
    19/100
    19/100
    20/100
    It’s becoming addictive.

  164. But it seems like America is going to pull a Ted Stryker in the end and get this thing landed with broken wheels but no one dead.

    I sure hope so hubie…no matter what happens though it sure seems our country is fairly evenly divided…that’s not such a great thing…

    I feel foolish now, but, for decades I’ve had this assumption there were more democrats than republicans here in the US…I thought with all the new folks who registered to vote and did vote that it would clearly favor democrats…

    that certainly didn’t happen…heard some references to the democrats holding back on their “ground” game of knocking on doors due to the virus…didn’t really think it would have that significant of an effect…

    trump certainly has a way of defying any type of conventional polling practices…

  165. I also remember getting absolutely crushed in the market back in 2000…haven’t looked to see what’s going on with wall street yet…

  166. Biden campaign focused on winning over ‘disaffected’ Republicans. It was a very stupid strategy; Trump’s share of the Republican vote count went up this time around. Riding with John Kasich, Mike Bloomberg, the Lincoln Project, etc. did absolutely nothing to convince GOP voters to go for Biden. Watching this unfold in real-time has been beyond frustrating.

    That said, I still think Biden ekes this out once all the ballots are tallied in Wis, PA, and MI. Then we’ll have weeks of court battles to fray our nerves. Should have never been this close though.

    Fuck, I’m hungover.

  167. I liked this quote about the Knicks getting this asset in return for taking Horford’s bad contract:

    “Pairing Thybulle with Frank Ntilikina will form a youthful defensive backcourt that won’t allow any team to score, including the Knicks.”

  168. geo: I sure hope so hubie…no matter what happens though it sure seems our country is fairly evenly divided…that’s not such a great thing…

    I feel foolish now, but, for decades I’ve had this assumption there were more democrats than republicans here in the US…I thought with all the new folks who registered to vote and did vote that it would clearly favor democrats…

    that certainly didn’t happen…heard some references to the democrats holding back on their “ground” game of knocking on doors due to the virus…didn’t really think it would have that significant of an effect…

    trump certainly has a way of defying any type of conventional polling practices…

    There ARE more Democrats than republicans in the country, have been for years. In the last 30 years republicans have won the national popular vote exactly once, in 2004; Democrats have won it in every other election and elected Democrats in both the Senate and House generally represent more voters than elected Republicans. But we setup this country so that slave states would have extra voting power and that’s carried over to the present day so that rural voters have more voting power than urban and suburban voters.

    In this year’s election, Biden is currently winning the national vote by nearly 3M votes. And that number is going to continue to expand as there’s a lot of outstanding votes in NY, PA, NJ, IL, CA, and New England. In any functional country this election would have been over last night (of course, in any functional country trump would never be nominated) but because of the disproportionate voting power that rural voters have in the electoral college, the Senate, and the House we have to sweat this out for the next couple of days.

  169. ess-dog:
    I liked this quote about the Knicks getting this asset in return for takingHorford’s bad contract:

    “Pairing Thybulle with Frank Ntilikina will form a youthful defensive backcourt that won’t allow any team to score, including the Knicks.”

    rotflmao

  170. because of the disproportionate voting power that rural voters have in the electoral college, the Senate, and the House 

    good stuff vincoug…yeah, I’m late to the game on how this whole process actually “works”…

    there are definitely some significant changes to the process needed…

  171. Waiting for changes in the electoral process is a lot like being a Knicks fan.

    It’s a little early for postmortems. At least until we know what happened in Georgia and if you believe the wingnuts Arizona and Nevada. But the fact that Dems raised 200 million in order to lose two Senate seats by a combined 35% in Kentucky and SC strikes me as quite Knicksian.

    Also, “Pairing Thybulle with Frank Ntilikina will form a youthful defensive backcourt that won’t allow any team to score, including the Knicks.”

    That was a laugh I needed.

  172. Here is the thing about the electoral college and the senate.

    Democrats and Liberals can complain about it all they want (I certainly have). But neither of those things will change as long as Republicans hold so much sway over rural voters. It guarantees that they will almost always be competitive in the presidential election and will always have that advantage in the senate. And until Dems really take over both houses of congress and the presidency, reforming the electoral college, making DC and PR states, adding senate seats to California, etc…all of these will remain liberal fantasies.

    Democrats desperately need to find a way to reach rural voters. Since I moved to Omaha, this has really hit home with me. We actually flipped Omaha for Biden. Omaha is an urban center but it does show you can flip areas from red to blue. The Dem senate race was lost, however, bc she lost the rural vote. If she won 10 percent more of the rural vote across the board, she would have won.

    This whole election would be in the bag for Biden all ready and Dems absolutely would have won some more senate seats if they peeled off 10 percent of the rural vote. They are not all a lost cause. If Trump can make inroads with Latinos, Dems can absolutely make inroads with rural voters. It won’t be easy, but again, they don’t need to win these counties, just have a more respectable showing.

    Also, like half a million Democrats need to move out of California to TX, GA and some other swing states. Dems always win the popular vote but they win California by like 2 million votes.

  173. but because of the disproportionate voting power that rural voters have in the electoral college, the Senate, and the House we have to sweat this out for the next couple of days.

    The founders (albeit all the flaws of the world at that time) were brilliant men that didn’t want gang rule. They wanted as much freedom as possible “locally” because different people have different priorities, values, ideas etc.. Once there is a broad enough consensus among all the people, you can always make Federal laws and change the constitution if required.

    The only reason you don’t understand their brilliance is that you are part of the current gang and see this as a way of preventing you from imposing your assumed superior values and priorities on others.

    Personally, I prefer trying to win the hearts and minds of people over time through honest discussion and debate. But that’s just me. I’m a little more patient for change. I’m willing to compromise, willing to accept that some people like hunting (which I abhor), some people believe strongly in their God and HIs Law (on which I’m agnostic and often disagree), personally believe in free but regulated markets to create the resources we need to solve social, economic and other problems etc and so on. I’d way rather not resort to personal attack, cancel culture, media bias, lying, and corruption and borderline totalitarianism all because I’m arrogant enough think I’m always right and should impose my will on others. If I don’t like what’s going on locally, I am a free man. I can move.

  174. From what I can tell, Biden did do better with educated, suburban white voters who voted for Trump last time.

    The problem is that rural America and whites without college degrees came out in support of Trump even stronger than last time. To me that is really telling because you would think old white moderate Biden with his Scranton, PA working class roots would have fared better with rural voters than Hillary. But he didn’t. I don’t think that is necessarily a reflection on Biden as much as a reflection on how deep the Trump claws are in rural voters and how divided our country is.

    Also, I think dismissing all Trump voters as racist is not a good strategy for Democrats. I am not trying to deny that the Republican party (or America for that matter) doesn’t have a racism problem. They absolutely do. But writing off half of the voting population as racist isn’t going to win you over any votes. Last night my FB feed was filled with my liberal friends in LA and NYC decrying how racist this country is. I think that stuff hurts us even if there is truth to it.

    Also, its hard to say all Trump voters are racist when he did a lot better with Hispanic males. Why is that?

    The good news is I do think the demographics are slowly trending in the right direction but Dems need to fight for every vote in every county, even the rural ones.

  175. Deeefense: The founders (albeit all the flaws of the world at that time) were brilliant men that didn’t want gang rule.They wanted as much freedom as possible “locally” because different people have different priorities, values, ideas etc..Once there is a broad enough consensus among all the people, you can always make Federal laws and change the constitution if required.

    The only reason you don’t understand their brilliance is that you are part of the current gang and see this as a way of preventing you from imposing your assumed superior values and priorities on others.

    Personally, I prefer trying to win the hearts and minds of people over time through honest discussion anddebate.But that’s just me.I’m a little more patient for change. I’m willing to compromise, willing to accept that some people like hunting (which I abhor), some people believe strongly in their God and HIs Law (on which I’m agnostic and often disagree) and so on.I’d way rather not resort to personal attack, cancel culture, media bias, lying, and corruption and borderline totalitarianism all because I’m arrogant enough think I’m always right and should impose my will on others.If I don’t like what’s going on locally, I am a free man. I can move.

    Go fuck yourself you sanctimonious, ahistorical piece of shit. The electoral process was put in place because slave states wanted to ensure their political power. It’s why they fought for their “property” to be counted towards their population and why they fought for our current electoral system. We also have first past the post elections for the most part so it’s always going to be “gang rule” as you put it. You just prefer the system that gives disproportionate power to your “gang”. Unless and until you’re side is willing to come to the table as equals you can fuck off with your “hearts and minds” and “honest discussion” and…

  176. swiftandabundant:
    From what I can tell, Biden did do better with educated, suburban white voters who voted for Trump last time.

    The problem is that rural America and whites without college degrees came out in support of Trump even stronger than last time. To me that is really telling because you would think old white moderate Biden with his Scranton, PA working class roots would have fared better with rural voters than Hillary. But he didn’t. I don’t think that is necessarily a reflection on Biden as much as a reflection on how deep the Trump claws are in rural voters and how divided our country is.

    Also, I think dismissing all Trump voters as racist is not a good strategy for Democrats. I am not trying to deny that the Republican party (or America for that matter) doesn’t have a racism problem. They absolutely do. But writing off half of the voting population as racist isn’t going to win you over any votes. Last night my FB feed was filled with my liberal friends in LA and NYC decrying how racist this country is. I think that stuff hurts us even if there is truth to it.

    Also, its hard to say all Trump voters are racist when he did a lot better with Hispanic males. Why is that?

    The good news is I do think the demographics are slowly trending in the right direction but Dems need to fight for every vote in every county, even the rural ones.

    The problem is it’s not enough to not dismiss them as racist; to many of them racism isn’t really a problem and systemic racism doesn’t even exist. Where do Democrats even begin forming a working coalition with people who think like that?

  177. Vincoung, I don’t know. I’m not saying it’s easy. But I think there is a real difference between a white person who is racist and hostile towards a person of color and an ignorant white person who denies that racism is a problem. I know this because as white dude, I grew up with white people who were in the later category. I’m not saying they didn’t have some racist thoughts or subconscious bias (we all do), but they didn’t hate non white people. They’re the type of people that say “but I have a black friend who goes to my church or my coworker is asian!”

    To me, I think that later group is reachable and teachable. But if you just lump them in as being racist then you’ve lost them. No one wants to be called a racist and there’s a lot of shame in white America over what our ancestors did. I think for a lot of people on the other side, that shame is subconscious and manifests itself through denial.

    I’m not asking POC to hold their hands, fyi. Just to recognize that when you call someone a racist, if they don’t think they’re racist they’re going to get VERY defensive and you’ve probably shut down any opportunity for dialogue and change on their part.

    Also, there are other issues that are really important to rural voters. These areas of the country are really lacking in educational opportunities and job opportunities. They’ve been ignored for a long time. Typically they aren’t represented in popular culture in ways that are positive. Anyone who grows up there who is liberal usually leaves when they can, so the people who remain don’t change.

    And here is the thing. If you look a the numbers, even in these super Trump areas, there’s still like 25 to 30 percent people who vote Democrat. So there are democrats there. They just get no support from the national party.

  178. Also, its hard to say all Trump voters are racist when he did a lot better with Hispanic males.

    Voting for a racist demagogue like Trump is categorically a racist act, as they’re using their power to help reinforce and expand existing power structures. It’s kinda hard to say someone’s not racist when they aid the election of a racist to represent their interests.

  179. Also, I think the “socialism” boogie man has really worked on these people. And maybe this is where Dems can make some progress. We need to do a better job of explaining, for example, why a public option on healthcare isn’t socialism. How taxing the uber wealthy isn’t communism that will destroy the economy. That messaging from Republicans of “tax and spend big city liberals” has been playing on a loop in rural America LONG before Trump. Its ridiculous.

  180. Here is all I can say about that, Jowles. I’ve seen this justification with my parents and with conservative “friends” I grew up with on social media.

    They see Trump’s racist rhetoric as unfortunate but no different than Dems playing up to their liberal base. They don’t think Trump really means it. That he just has to say it to get them to vote for him the same way Biden has to say he supports BLM to get them to vote for him. I absolutely don’t agree with them but this is how I see it justified.

    And they think disagreeing about stuff like affirmative action or wanting the US to be tougher on illegal immigration doesn’t make them racist and they’re tired of being called that every time they disagree with a liberal position.

    Again, I am not saying they’re right. I’m not saying they aren’t racist or acting in a racist way. Just that they do not think they’re racist and react super negatively when they’re called that.

  181. The founders (albeit all the flaws of the world at that time) were brilliant men that didn’t want gang rule.

    Although many of them were slave-owners and that whole 3/5ths thing.

    If I don’t like what’s going on locally, I am a free man. I can move.

    Bill O’Reilly used to same the same shit. Because supposedly people don’t have a right to fight for equality or to improve conditions where they live. Because it can’t be possible to love a country yet acknowledge and rail against it’s ills because you care and you want better for it and you. Fuck this BS line of thought. It’s ignorant.

    The problem is that rural America and whites without college degrees came out in support of Trump even stronger than last time. To me that is really telling because you would think old white moderate Biden with his Scranton, PA working class roots would have fared better with rural voters than Hillary. But he didn’t. I don’t think that is necessarily a reflection on Biden as much as a reflection on how deep the Trump claws are in rural voters and how divided our country is.

    My dad (retired FDNY and 9-11 survivor who lives in Florida since ’06) has followed politics forever. He believes this is the White Last Gasp/Grasp. Not all white folks, but the ones that are fearful of the “browning” of the country and are desperately trying to hold onto their control (real and imagined). I think that’s why we’re not seeing the “blue wave” blowout we should be seeing. Either that, or shit is rigged Scandal-style.

  182. The only reason you don’t understand their brilliance is that you are part of the current gang and see this as a way of preventing you from imposing your assumed superior values and priorities on others.

    hahahahaha…oh strat, you’re too funny, you just can’t resist letting some stuff like this fly…oh goodness, sometimes it’s better to whisper this kind of condemnation rather than shout it..

    you can still get your point across without getting fired on as soon as you post, or – making the issue: you…really, who wants to be a pinata for the day…

    personally, trump aside, I simply disagree with some of the party’s ideas on healthcare, gun reform, deregulation of industry, women’s personal health rights, etc…

    truly at this moment in time, it feels like the divided states of america…

    I grew up in a house where it was continually preached that the democrats just don’t know how to “fight” like republicans…meaning democrats are just too damn nice and fighting with 20 oz. gloves while their opponents are lacing up them 4 oz ones…

    donald dump has got me leaning much more heavily towards a “scorched earth” political philosophy than anything i ever thought I would embrace previously…

    I don’t think it’s all that healthy for our democratic process, but, personally it’s becoming more apparent that our country’s path forward is more important than simply being “fair”…

    yeah, I’ve reached the fuck “fair” stage of politcs…winning really is all that matters at this point…

  183. Infamous CDiggy…you’re Dad is right. That is a huge part of it.

    I will also add that it is absolutely infuriating that we will have these hand wringing discussions on our side and yet it feels like there is zero introspection about how to be better on the other side. I think The Republican party and Trump are sick and horrible. So please don’t misconstrue what I say to mean otherwise. But I still do think that when you deal with people on a one on one level, you will find that they are much more nuanced and contradictory than whatever political labels they may have.

  184. The Founding Fathers were impressive men for their time.

    My Atari 2600 was the shit in 1982 but it’s in a landfill somewhere. I’m not gonna sit here and try to pretend that my old Adventure cartridge can hang with Skyrim.

  185. @swiftandabundant

    I just don’t see how there’s room for compromise with people who deny systemic racism. And Democrats consistently try to pass bills and policy to improve their economic problems along with the rest of the country’s. Things like worker protections, training programs to train workers who worked in industries that have moved away, and safety net programs so they aren’t destitute while unemployed. Republicans consistently block these efforts but they keep on voting for republicans.

    And they call everything they don’t like socialism, have for years. You can go back 70 years and see them screaming about things like desegregation as socialism.

  186. I’m sure there are many Republicans out there who just want deregulation and low taxes and shit.

    But let’s get real: a big part of the Republican base is people who think Democrats are running a secret international pedophile ring, and that Donald Trump and Robert Mueller are working together to throw the Obamas and Clintons in jail and that Wayfair is involved and JFK Jr is going to come back and team up with Trump, and that Bill Gates infected the world with Covid so he can profit off vaccines and all sorts of batshit insane garbage.

    Sorry to offend any, erm, “principled” conservatives out there, but a lot of your fellow travelers are dumber than a box of rocks. Like A LOT of them.

  187. Had a Facebook discussion with an old dude about how the Electoral College fundamentally privileges some voters over others, and he spouted much of the same BS as Strat did above. Eventually he just straight up admitted that “equal representation was never the point.” Amazing how close he came to a “are we the baddies” moment without crossing that final goal line.

  188. Do you expect me to call my mom a racist then?

    A duck is a duck whether you call it one or not. You don’t have to shout, “Duck! Duck duck duck!” at them, but they’re still ducks.

  189. pretend that my old Adventure cartridge can hang with Skyrim.

    what!!!!

    don’t tease me now jk, do you really know something about tamriel…have you ever tried eso?

  190. I still think it’s too early for postmortems.

    I think the very popular take coming out of this will be that calling Hispanic people Latinx is something that plays really badly.

    That intersectionality is a neat intellectual framework but is bad politics. POC are even further from a monolith than we thought.

    It’s hard to say until the dust settles but the numbers do actually seem to be a strong rebuke to the cutting edge of woke liberalism. That will be an argument for two years probably.

  191. Vincoug…I think we’re talking about 2 different things.

    I don’t think Dems should compromise with Republicans. Although Biden and them will probably have to since they’ll still have the senate if they want to get anything done.

    I’m talking about a long term outreach effort to grow Democratic support in rural America. I think it would be the knockout punch if we could do it. Again, we’re talking shaving off like 10 percentage points in these rural counties. There are all ready Democrats there in these places. They just have very little support. We’ve conceded all of it and its a huge tactical mistake.

  192. Do you expect me to call my mom a racist then?

    Cause when I did that in 2016, she started crying and didn’t talk to me for 3 months.

    oh my goodness swift, this made me both sad and laugh at the same time…if you’re fortunate, there are just some folks in life where unconditional love has true meaning…sometimes a no politics zone is required…

    i’m generally distanced from others anyway, but – politics pushed me even further away from my oldest friend in the world…i wish him the best with his health and happiness – except for this shit, hopefully he’s back to his disgruntled obama days by the end of this week…

  193. I want to bring up an example from one of my friends. I went to college in TN (my home state). I’m from Nashville but at my school there were people from all over the south some of whom grew up in pretty rural places.

    I was having a similar convo about this on FB with a woman I went to college with. She is a lifelong Democrat but still lives in the rural county she grew up in (outside of Memphis). She is very active in the local Democratic party there (its small, obviously). Trump won big there but since the 2000 election, her county has gone from 90 percent Republican support to now just a little over 70 percent. That’s a pretty big change, more than 15 percent. They get no love from the national party and do everything on their own, grassroots style. She hasn’t given up on those people and the work they’ve done has made inroads. Her county might not ever go blue but if we had similar changes in other rural counties across the country, the Republican wall would crumble.

  194. swiftandabundant:
    Here is the thing about the electoral college and the senate.

    Democrats and Liberals can complain about it all they want (I certainly have). But neither of those things will change as long as Republicans hold so much sway over rural voters. It guarantees that they will almost always be competitive in the presidential election and will always have that advantage in the senate. And until Dems really take over both houses of congress and the presidency, reforming the electoral college, making DC and PR states, adding senate seats to California, etc…all of these will remain liberal fantasies.

    Democrats desperately need to find a way to reach rural voters…

    This whole election would be in the bag for Biden all ready and Dems absolutely would have won some more senate seats if they peeled off 10 percent of the rural vote. They are not all a lost cause. If Trump can make inroads with Latinos, Dems can absolutely make inroads with rural voters. It won’t be easy, but again, they don’t need to win these counties, just have a more respectable showing.

    Also, like half a million Democrats need to move out of California to TX, GA and some other swing states. Dems always win the popular vote but they win California by like 2 million votes.

    OR!!!

    And hold on… this is gonna be cray….

    Instead of each party trying to forge a supermajority so they can ram their agenda down half the country’s throat while deepening the seeds of dissension and polarization, the people who represent the urban areas and the people who represent the rural areas can compromise on shit and pass legislation because that’s the whole point of government.

  195. Hubert: OR!!!

    And hold on… this is gonna be cray….

    Instead of each party trying to forge a supermajority so they can ram their agenda down half the country’s throat while deepening the seeds of dissension and polarization, the people who represent the urban areas and the people who represent the rural areas can compromise on shit and pass legislation because that’s the whole point of government.

    Great idea. Show me one time since 1994 that republicans have shown a willingness to compromise with Democrats.

  196. Anyway, if there’s anything to take away from these results, it’s morbid:

    thank god for Covid, because if it didn’t happen Trump would have cruised to reelection.

  197. Hubert:

    thank god for Covid, because if it didn’t happen Trump would have cruised to reelection.

    It’s a logical thought. I have mixed feelings because there was far more than enough shit for a rational person not to reelect Trump before COVID hit. It shouldn’t have taken a pandemic that’s killed over 200K Americans for some to definitively say, “hmmm maybe Trump’s not the right guy for this”.

    That said: Trump’s COVID handling should really be an epic fail in everyone’s mind. But think of how Trump politicized mask-wearing and downplayed COVID and how most of his rank-and-file Repubs either followed suit or played dumb to his antics. Think of all the anti-maskers:
    – the people who chose not to believe the numbers or – worse –
    – couldn’t bring themselves to empathize with the thousands who’ve died because…
    – it didn’t hit in their own backyards, or
    – refuse to/are too selfish and shortsighted to understand the concept of protecting others, or
    – blindly listened to Trump and believed his words above all else (no president should have that cult-level of following ever).

    Isn’t it sickening?

  198. swiftandabundant:
    I want to bring up an example from one of my friends. I went to college in TN (my home state).I’m from Nashville but at my school there were people from all over the south some of whom grew up in pretty rural places.

    I was having a similar convo about this on FB with a woman I went to college with. She is a lifelong Democrat but still lives in the rural county she grew up in (outside of Memphis). She is very active in the local Democratic party there (its small, obviously). Trump won big there but since the 2000 election, her county has gone from 90 percent Republican support to now just a little over 70 percent. That’s a pretty big change, more than 15 percent. They get no love from the national party and do everything on their own, grassroots style. She hasn’t given up on those people and the work they’ve done has made inroads. Her county might not ever go blue but if we had similar changes in other rural counties across the country, the Republican wall would crumble.

    Hey, swift! My family moved to TN in 1977 (Cumberland County, yeesh!), but I’ve been in Knoxville since college in 1980.

    We’ve got a hardcore red state here, but our local district in West Knoxville for the state house has become a hard fight for the Republicans recently, and Knoxville has elected two consecutive fairly liberal pro-environment women as mayor.

    The Republicans are way better at fear mongering and tagging Dems with guilt by association. The Dems need to close the ground at those.

    Most news sites are now calling Michigan for Biden.

  199. vincoug: Great idea. Show me one time since 1994 that republicans have shown a willingness to compromise with Democrats.

    Just some copy and pasting….

    Megan’s Law, The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, The Food Quality Protection Act, The Safe Drinking Water Act, the minimum wage increase of 96, the post OKC bombing anti-terrorism law, New Protections for Mothers and Newborns Act, the Kennedy-Kasselbaum legislation for fighting fraud and waste in medicare, the 1996 Welfare Reform, the ratification of the Chemical Weapons Convention Treaty, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the $500 tax credit per child, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, HOPE Scholarships & lifetime learning credits

    I’m only up to August 1997, but do you get the point? Bill Clinton got so much shit done with a Republican House and Senate. I know it feels like absolute obstinance in government has been around forever but it’s like ten years old.

  200. And Democrats consistently try to pass bills and policy to improve their economic problems along with the rest of the country’s. Things like worker protections, training programs to train workers who worked in industries that have moved away, and safety net programs so they aren’t destitute while unemployed. Republicans consistently block these efforts but they keep on voting for republicans.

    But Democrats didn’t base their presidential campaign on doing stuff like this. They campaigned against Trump instead. They would have done better to emphasize how they will help people than to imply people were idiots for liking Trump.

  201. Hubert: Just some copy and pasting….

    Megan’s Law, The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, The Food Quality Protection Act, The Safe Drinking Water Act, the minimum wage increase of 96, the post OKC bombing anti-terrorism law, New Protections for Mothers and Newborns Act, the Kennedy-Kasselbaum legislation for fighting fraud and waste in medicare, the 1996 Welfare Reform, the ratification of the Chemical Weapons Convention Treaty,the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the $500 tax credit per child, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, HOPE Scholarships & lifetime learning credits

    I’m only up to August 1997, but do you get the point?Bill Clinton got so much shit done with a Republican House and Senate.I know it feels like absolute obstinance in government has been around forever but it’s like ten years old.

    Ok, now do the same thing for the 8 Obama years.

  202. thank god for Covid, because if it didn’t happen Trump would have cruised to reelection.

    although i myself probably wouldn’t have put that out there in to the world :) but, it’s been on my mind for months…

    no way was he losing without it…and, i don’t think a lot of his support was really racist motivated…i think a lot of it was 401k motivated…

  203. there was far more than enough shit for a rational person not to reelect Trump before COVID hit. It shouldn’t have taken a pandemic that’s killed over 200K Americans for some to definitively say, “hmmm maybe Trump’s not the right guy for this”.

    hell yeah to that…how’s that married life treating you cdiggy :)

  204. Yeah I think the operative question is whether that kind of cooperation is still possible in today’s hyper-polarized media environment. In theory Democrats would moderate their policies somewhat in order to compromise with the most left portion of the Republican legislative bloc and pass laws that would be broadly acceptable to both sides. In practice, any Republican who is seen as helping the Biden agenda will be tarred and feathered on conservative media and primaried at the next opportunity. Similarly, the left part of the democratic base on twitter is in a never ending purity contest and passing moderated policies will be disapproved of there too.

    And the running of that process over the last ten years or whatever has resulted in chambers that are super polarized. In theory you would expect that the left-most Republican legislators and the right-most Democratic legislators should have a lot in common policy wise, but I’m not sure it’s really the case so much anymore.

  205. There’s so much to say about this election (most importantly, that it’s not over until Trump loses the inevitable suit he brings), but some initial thoughts:

    Assuming that the Republicans hold the Senate (which looks likely at this point), then even if Biden wins, this is a terrible electoral result for Democrats. Downballots look bad, there’s no large-scale repudiation of Trump, and no prospect of legislative reforms being passed in a divided government. The Clinton-Obama-Biden political tradition is an abject failure. The failure is not entirely self-imposed, though–in a country this polarized, with an electoral map that favors Rs in so many respects, it’s nearly impossible for Democrats to win convincingly, no matter the popular vote margin. They’re not responsible for that, but they are responsible for how they strategize within the bounds of this awful system that we do have. There are no ‘moderate voters’ left in this polarized country. It’s all about turnout from the base now. Unfortunately, Republicans have systematically attempted to limit the franchise and are working within a system that has been, in its justification and execution, manifestly anti-democratic from the start. Within the system, there’s two solutions: abolishing the electoral college–which will never happen, because the Founders didn’t want it to happen–or changing the primary system and increasing voter turnout in swing states enough to energize legislative and downballot races, which can then lead to state-by-state electoral reform and Dem victories with margins that more accurately reflect the will of the voters. But in order to implement the latter strategy, you have to energize people. People will only come out to vote if they’re given a reason to–you have to make people *want* to vote, rather than shaming them into voting for Not-Trump. But you can only make people want to vote with candidates that people genuinely care for, and people never have and never will care for Joe Biden.

  206. Also, I think people should really pump the brakes on ‘cooperation’ talk. There is no cooperation with a party that plays everything like a one-off Prisoner’s Dilemma, that routinely seeks to limit fundamental rights (especially voting rights) in order to maintain their grip on power, who willfully disseminates conspiracy theories and looks the other way as their president violates law. If Democrats ever have all the levers of government again, they should use every dirty political trick to crush the Republicans under foot. But they neither have the spine nor the competence to do so, and that’s one of the many reasons why they’ve been perennial losers for the past four decades. Civility and respect for disagreement is healthy in real democracies, where everyone is operating in good faith. But we live in a system where one party is utterly disinterested in anything other than preserving itself, and so we’ll continue to live in an ersatz democracy until the structures that allow a minoritarian party to dominate at every level of government are eliminated. Democrats need a politician that will try to remake the country in their image, someone like FDR. I’m not optimistic they’ll find one.

  207. Remarkable election. I couldn’t tell you a single policy either guy supports for their term of office, other than vague shit like affordable healthcare, or Making America Great Again Again

  208. In theory Democrats would moderate their policies somewhat in order to compromise with the most left portion of the Republican legislative bloc and pass laws that would be broadly acceptable to both sides. In practice, any Republican who is seen as helping the Biden agenda will be tarred and feathered on conservative media and primaried at the next opportunity. Similarly, the left part of the democratic base on twitter is in a never ending purity contest and passing moderated policies will be disapproved of there too.

    The left part of the Democratic congressional delegation is a small rump faction. Most Democratic Party Senators are Clintonian Third Way type Senators. Hell, even out here in California we have Dianne Feinstein’s rumpled ass representing us. There’s a Bernie Sanders or an Elizabeth Warren here and there but there are also a lot of Klobuchars and Sinemas and Warners and Kaines and Testers and Shaheens.

    The Left™ does not have a lot of sway in the party really.

  209. I don’t know DRed, Trump’s been saying for months (years?) that he’s got a fabulous health care plan just around the corner that’ll blow your socks off. Also something something fake news something something deep state.

  210. geo: hell yeah to that…how’s that married life treating you cdiggy :)

    Hey geo… it’s going well! We’re both in a better place mentally and romantically since we’ve been able to put the wedding behind us. And wedding day was awesome – just the stress leading up to and right after. Sidebar: going AirBnB is a great way to save money on hotel costs, but make sure if you’re getting multiple houses that everyone is no more than 15 minutes from each other. Not 30 minutes like we ended up doing, lol.

    The missus has kept up her walking/workout regimen after the honeymoon, and she’s looking great. Me… well see above for my Hugh Jackman comment (lol).

    To sports: LA County is still iffy on letting the area community colleges play in February although we’ve been initially cleared by CCCAA. The situation is so fluid that there’s a CCCAA board mtg this Friday to essentially get people to wait until December 2nd to make a ironclad decision. And that decision may still involve options that push the full contact sports back to April (letting the non-contact sports start in Feb) and sacrificing football (which, right or wrong, will piss off a LOT of people including student-athletes).

    BTW: We got a bball player about to sign with USC. And you didn’t hear this from me but Last Chance U re-upped with a second season w/us. Now we just need to find a way back onto the court safely…

    As for the Knicks: I don’t know, lol. Sounds like Christian Wood is a good target. I feel like we’ve been burned before by players of his ilk, but as long as we’re not counting on him to do anything more than what he did in Detroit and he can indeed open the floor up for Mitch and RJ with his shooting, then I’m cool (how’s his D tho?).

  211. i’m with you silky…they don’t give out prizes for second place when it comes to politics…that’s the lesson i’ve learned the last four years…

    i think there’s still a chance for a 50 to 50 count in the senate…kamala then becomes the deciding vote…

    if that happens – FDR it all the way…if not, go back at it in two years, if that works…get as much democratic favorable paper out of the congress as possible – including the statehood stuff for D.C. and Puerto Rico and the issue with the supreme court, which is gonna take some very creative solutions, you have to imagine the supreme court will do what it can to stay as is…

  212. JK47: The left part of the Democratic congressional delegation is a small rump faction. Most Democratic Party Senators are Clintonian Third Way type Senators. Hell, even out here in California we have Dianne Feinstein’s rumpled ass representing us. There’s a Bernie Sanders or an Elizabeth Warren here and there but there are also a lot of Klobuchars and Sinemas and Warners and Kaines and Testers and Shaheens.

    The Left™ does not have a lot of sway in the party really.

    I definitely agree that the rising polarization has been asymmetrical. And polarization on the right wing is a much more significant obstacle to any real progress during Biden’s term.

  213. I read a score card somewhere, possibly the Atlantic that Trump had survived one impeachment, two divorces, six bankruptcies, 36 sexual harassment complaints and 4000 lawsuits.

  214. Silky is dead on.

    Ok, now do the same thing for the 8 Obama years.

    You can’t, because in 2010, the Republicans made obstructionism their platform. How quickly we forget that Mitch McConnell filibustered his own bill during the debt ceiling crisis. Why? Because chaos, not legislation, was the point.

    This election was a referendum on blatant political corruption and a callous (to put it lightly) disregard for governance. The American people decided they don’t care that much, as long as the guy on TV gives them the reality show they want to watch. It’s sickening.

  215. i’m sooooooo excited – PBS is gonna broadcast Dr. Strangelove tonight…it’s been since forever since i’ve watched it…been doing a little research on it lately, so excited to give it a closer look tonight…

  216. Instead of each party trying to forge a supermajority so they can ram their agenda down half the country’s throat while deepening the seeds of dissension and polarization, the people who represent the urban areas and the people who represent the rural areas can compromise on shit and pass legislation because that’s the whole point of government.

    The problem with this is quite simple: the modern Republican Party does not want to govern.

    To the extent it has a legislative agenda, it is literally nothing but repealing/cutting the small number of narrowly targeted programs that serve people in this country.

    I have no fundamental opposition to trying to compromise with Republicans, but these days they don’t have any goals besides destroying what little state capacity we have to offer in this country. I mean Grover Norquist was refreshingly honest about this–these people do not want the government to work.

    So where exactly can compromises be made? Republicans do not believe the government should aim to fix problems that exist in society, and this is hardly limited to the absolute chuds like Matt Gaetz. Very Serious People like, say, Marco Rubio share this ideology.

  217. Silky captured the Democrats’ current dilemma very well. Their biggest problem is this country’s democratic institutions are antiquated as hell and biased against them, but they also can’t do anything to fix that until they gain power via those same institutions (boy, it was a massive mistake to not address these things in 2008-2010).

    I have no easy answers. My priors are that Democrats need to fully embrace universal, high functioning government programs that will both do more good for people and are easier to message politically. I am also humble enough to admit it’s possible advocating for those may come with political liability that makes them impossible and just ensures more reactionary GOP rule.

    What I do know is I don’t trust anyone in the current Democratic leadership to figure this stuff out and it’s well past time we clean house.

  218. My priors are that Democrats need to fully embrace universal, high functioning government programs that will both do more good for people and are easier to message politically.

    You hit it here. I’ll take it one step further: embracing universal, high functioning government programs with the cooperation of the private sector I’m skeptical that government alone can come up with truly dynamic and innovative plans that can really solve some serious shit and not simply provide a band-aid or a safety net, or a safety net that’s a bit too sticky. But government can grease the wheels and provide powerful partnership to those who can truly innovate for the public good. You can create win-win scenarios like that.

    What I do know is I don’t trust anyone in the current Democratic leadership to figure this stuff out and it’s well past time we clean house.

    Biden talked about his potential presidency as a transition. The old fogies (including him) need to ride into the sunset over these next several years. Government representation, especially w/the Dems, needs more youth; I don’t know if AOC can be the next “chosen one”, but if more young (18-30) can folks continue to push the undercrust of political movement…

  219. ***if there’s anything to take away from these results, it’s morbid: thank god for Covid, because if it didn’t happen Trump would have cruised to reelection.***

    Covid May have helped turn out vote due to an emphasis on mail in voting, but Trump’s handling of the virus didn’t seem to effect his electoral performance much. He’d lost the suburban voters in Phoenix and Atlanta prior to 2018, and Wisconsin, despite being the covid center of the universe on election week, stayed within the 20,000+/- range. Ultimately, Biden was hired by dem voters to win voters in Milwaukee, Detroit, and Philadelphia who had turned out for Obama but not Clinton. He did his job.

  220. Also, I haven’t seen it talked about, but black voters in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Atlanta are the reason that Trump’s lead last night evaporated. These are the NBA cities. The NBA cities that worked with their players and owners to turn out the vote in. This is the LeBron effect. He deserves credit for threatening to lead his teammates out of the bubble.

  221. I’d love to reach some compromise with Republicans. I’d love to see Democratic leaders reach out more effectively to rural voters. There’s a really giant roadblock to that though: the right wing media noise machine.

    Now look, I know the left has its own media empire, and I realize that CNN and MSNBC have become bizarro Fox News. But the amount of disinformation thrown out there by right wing media has gone through the roof in the Trump years. The sheer volume and intensity of the bullshit is jaw dropping.

    Today I saw the top news personality on Fox News, Tucker Carlson, repeat without any qualifications a widely debunked rumor about a supposedly mysterious vote drop in Michigan on Tuesday night that gave Biden 120,000 votes and Trump 0. Wow, that sounds like some real election fraud, right? I mean gee whiz, those dirty Democrats, will they stop at nothing in their unquenchable thirst for power? It was, of course, bullshit. No such thing happened. Tucker knows no such thing happened.

    This is just one tiny example. This past week, I have seen conservatives on my Facebook feed make the following claims:
    -Joe Biden is a pedophile
    -The mail-in vote now being counted in places like Pennsylvania is all fake votes
    -Joe Biden and Kamala Harris plan to eliminate our economic system and install a Soviet-style planned economy
    -The Proud Boys are a nonviolent group who are just trying to protect people from Antifa

    This is just a small sampling of the complete bullshit that I have read recently from people who used to seem somewhat normal. I don’t know how you reach out to people like this, people who have had their brains completely melted by propaganda. They think Donald Trump is infallible, and that it is not possible that he could lose an election, so there must be a conspiracy against him. It’s one thing to be politically biased, it’s another to be completely divorced from reality.

  222. Florida, the state which went for Trump by a bigger margin than 2016, also voted for a $15 minimum wage with a 60% margin..

    I think that’s the standout fact of this election for me.

    My other favorite take, the Black minister on Twitter who said “we have gone from picking cotton to picking Presidents.”

  223. Donnie Walsh: Ultimately, Biden was hired by dem voters to win voters in Milwaukee, Detroit, and Philadelphia who had turned out for Obama but not Clinton. He did his job.

    Excellent analysis. And you might say that Atlanta and to a lesser degree Phoenix are by-products.

    I don’t think any Dem candidate could have gotten more votes than Biden. He did as well as he possibly could have…save maybe the oil/fracking gaffes. But thad didn’t hurt him in the cities above.

  224. Florida, the state which went for Trump by a bigger margin than 2016, also voted for a $15 minimum wage with a 60% margin..

    This is what I mean about the Democrats campaign. It was all about beating Trump. It wasn’t about doing things for people like raising the minimum wage or finding jobs to replace the jobs list to the pandemic I think it’s not surprising people weren’t enthused.

  225. Florida, the state which went for Trump by a bigger margin than 2016, also voted for a $15 minimum wage with a 60% margin..

    But other places had a lot of people splitting tickets, voting for Biden and then Republican for everything else. The answer just isn’t that simple. This election looks to have been driven by local factors as much as national ones.

    Like DW and Z-man said, Biden did his job. Everybody is gearing up for the circular firing squad. Dems didn’t lose. This is still a win. It’s not ideal, but Trump is as much a symptom as a disease. He is the Republican party, trumpism is precisely the tea party. It would have been nice if it had magically disappeared but it’d be nice if we all had magical ponies that shit rainbows too. Let’s stop shooting at each other for a moment. Leftists need the centrists and vice versa. There’s not enough of any of us to go it alone. There’s some vital runoffs in GA in January we need to be working together on.

  226. I think it’s not surprising people weren’t enthused.

    If enthused means “really happy feelings about your option” I guess this is true but the tent’s too fucking broad for most people to ever be enthused. If it means “did people vote” it’s dead wrong, tons of people voted. I only care about the later.

  227. Minimum wage is something that doesn’t poll particularly well in low density areas.

    Mitch McConnel might not allow a judge to confirmed for two years. I feel for Stephen Breyer. I feel for Kagan and Sotomayor too. I think they should resign if Breyer’s replacement is blocked.

    And Grocer, I agree with you. That]s my nutshell summation of what is happening. People don’t want effective government. And they are going to get what they want.

  228. The election was a huge win for Never Trump Republicans. No more Don, senate stayed R, GOP gained house seats, and the Dems got smoked in a number of important state races that will determine how districts get drawn moving forward.

    Makes me sick that Rick Wilson, Bloomberg, et al got exactly what they wanted.

  229. ***Today I saw the top news personality on Fox News, Tucker Carlson, repeat without any qualifications a widely debunked rumor about a supposedly mysterious vote drop in Michigan on Tuesday night that gave Biden 120,000 votes and Trump 0.***

    Well, Biden is going to win MI by more than 120,000, so Carlson’s gonna have to do a little better than that.

  230. I think it is very true that a lot of people don’t want an effective government. I had a HS Facebook friend today post “sweet sweet gridlock! Best thing that could happen!” And I’m thinking really? With a out of control pandemic and millions out of work, not too mention all of our much larger problems (healthcare, global warming, out of control cost of college, etc)..you think we need gridlock right now? Its unreal how many people have bought this lie that government is the enemy.

    Look, I will readily admit that government can easily screw things up sometimes. And it can be slow and inefficient too. But when you cynically believe that government is bad all the time and then elect officials who also believe that, are you really surprised when it doesn’t work all that well? Public schools, the post office, etc…its all been underfunded for years and I find it really insulting to the hard working people who work in those places that they’re constantly being attacked by people.

    I should clarify my statements from yesterday. I don’t want kumbaya compromise nor do I think it will be all that possible. But I do think we gotta try as hard as we can to shave away at the GOP stranglehold over rural America. Its the reason why they have so much power. The senate and the electoral college are not going away or being reformed anytime soon bc as long as the GOP has that huge support in rural America, they will have a stranglehold over the senate and always be able to win the presidency and get their people on the supreme court.

    But we just need to erode like 10 to 15 percent of that support in order for that red wall to crumble. I don’t know how to do that, but we gotta try.

    And seriously, half a million dems need to move out of california and go to GA, TX, etc.

  231. Taking my mind off the depressingly polarized state of the country, here’s a very good Vorkunov profile of Leon Rose. Doesn’t give any insight into what he’s going to do with the team, which is ultimately what matters most right now. But provides a much clearer picture of how he has operated in the past and amassed so much power and respect.

  232. Here’s something I really don’t understand and maybe you guys can explain it to me:

    Reportedly there was a substantial turnout of Hispanic voters for Trump in Florida and Texas (and the Miami-Dade vote is what swung Florida to Trump) I also read that there was a massive disinformation campaign in Florida targeting Hispanics with “Joe Biden is a Socialist who’ll raise your taxes, blah, blah, blah”

    And supposedly Hispanic voters were tired of being taken for granted by the Democratic Party.

    So I get all that, and maybe in normal times, a pissed off independent Hispanic voter might vote Republican. But to vote for Donald Trump? A xenophobic nut job who denigrates minorities and puts kids in cages?

    I just don’t get it.

  233. And seriously, half a million dems need to move out of california and go to GA, TX, etc.

    I said to a friend earlier today, since everyone on the right believes insane anti-semitic George Soros conspiracies anyway, he might as well fully fund a commune in Wyoming or Montana for 200,000 or so Brooklynites.

  234. Hispanic Voters are typically Catholic and can be single issue voters about abortion. Its all I can come up with.

    d-mar:
    Here’s something I really don’t understand and maybe you guys can explain it to me:

    Reportedly there was a substantial turnout of Hispanic voters for Trump in Florida and Texas (and the Miami-Dade vote is what swung Florida to Trump) I also read that there was a massive disinformation campaign in Florida targeting Hispanics with “Joe Biden is a Socialist who’ll raise your taxes, blah, blah, blah”

    And supposedly Hispanic voters were tired of being taken for granted by the Democratic Party.

    So I get all that, and maybe in normal times, a pissed off independent Hispanic voter might vote Republican. But to vote for Donald Trump? A xenophobic nut job who denigrates minorities and puts kids in cages?

    I just don’t get it.

  235. I think the point that both Swift and Dmar are missing is recognizing the astonishingly different world that conservatives live in now. It’s as if Earthlings and Venusians are speaking with each other — you can prattle on about how nice oxygen and water are and that green and blue are lovely colors, but a Venusian breathes methane and lives in a world of thick orange clouds. Conservatives get their news from Fox (and worse sites) — they NEVER hear about how Trump is a horrible, racist, misogynistic, corrupt, amoral hyper-narcissist who is actively trying to destroy our constitutional democracy just to maintain power to line his pockets. And when bits of that do float into their sphere, they’ve already been told it’s all a conspiracy so they can dismiss it.

    People, be they rural or Hispanic or whatever, who enter the cult-stream of conservative info-flow don’t come back out — they’re in the cult and it’s all they hear and see. I’m at a loss as to how one holds an intervention for 42% of the country.

  236. Raven:
    I think the point that both Swift and Dmar are missing is recognizing the astonishingly different world that conservatives live in now. It’s as if Earthlings and Venusians are speaking with each other — you can prattle on about how nice oxygen and water are and that green and blue are lovely colors, but a Venusian breathes methane and lives in a world of thick orange clouds. Conservatives get their news from Fox (and worse sites) — they NEVER hear about how Trump is a horrible, racist, misogynistic, corrupt, amoral hyper-narcissist who is actively trying to destroy our constitutional democracy just to maintain power to line his pockets. And when bits of that do float into their sphere, they’ve already been told it’s all a conspiracy so they can dismiss it.

    People, be they rural or Hispanic or whatever, who enter the cult-stream of conservative info-flow don’t come back out— they’re in the cult and it’s all they hear and see. I’m at a loss as to how one holds an intervention for 42% of the country.

    This. This describes one of my two younger brothers to a T. I’ve tried real hard to reel him back in, but he apparently listens to a lot of conservative podcasts and such, Michael Savage for sure. He was convinced that the USPS, which he used to work for, was going to throw Florida and other states to Biden, for example.

  237. Raven I hear everything you’re saying, but wasn’t COVID the “Emperor has no clothes” moment? I mean, even if you only watch Fox News, it’s pretty hard to avoid the fact that 230,000+ Americans have died and that our President said it would all go away and not to worry.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst president in history, yet 45% of the country would beg to differ. What a fucked up country we live in.

  238. lots of book talk and recommendations in this thread. if you’re picking anything up i hope you’re buying from the strand or using strandbooks.com if you’re not local.

  239. Puerto Ricans voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Cubans voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

    1 out of every 5 eligible Black voters in Florida is an immigrant.

    Minorities are not monoliths. (Captain Obvious, I know).

    Also, I am feeling better and better about North Carolina.

  240. Conservative media feeds a fictional reality to their listeners. If all you heard were Hannity, Carlson, Beck and Limbaugh, you too might believe in far-fetched, vast anti-conservative conspiracies in all segments of American society. It’s not crazy to assume that a good chunk of Trump voters believe that liberals want to commit Stalin-like purges of Christians, or whites, or straights. Batshit insanity.

  241. I’d say republicans have to feel pretty good about gaining market share with virtually every demographic except those self loathing racist WHITE MEN that are responsible for all the evil in the US. That’s where Trump lost market share. It was white men! Certainly, they didn’t lose those white men to Biden. They were anti Trump voters.

    If a republican like Trump (in name only by the way) could gain market share with blacks, Hispanics, women, and other minorities despite racist undertones and despite everyone that supported him or any of his policies being demonized as racist and worse by a corrupt media, what’s going to happen as those recent Hispanic immigrants start moving up the economic ladder, getting great jobs, opening businesses, getting wealthy and realizing the American dream like the initially despised German, Irish, Italian, Polish etc… immigrants did before them over the 20th century. They will slowly shift right.

    Also, very slowly but surely more minorities (especially Hispanics) will enter the political scene on the republican side and start running for higher office (guys like Rubio and Cruz were among the first but there are surely many more pro business, pro conservative Hispanics and blacks to come). They will attract even more.

    It usually takes between 1-2 generations for a shift to occur, but my initial analysis looks wrong. It’s happening faster than I thought. It seems many Hispanic immigrants are from countries that are both religious and anti socialism from experience. We could see a wave of Hispanics join the republican party over the next 10-20 years.

    Irony of all ironies would be the day 15-20 years from now the democrats want to build a wall because Hispanics are changing the political demographics against them.

  242. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Zach Lowe told Macri that:

    – NYK is reluctant to talk about trades with RJ and Mitch
    – Knox, #8, and the two Dallas picks for #2 was essentially rebuffed
    – interest in Oladipo has cooled

  243. Someone I know was spouting off on the ‘120000 magically appearing votes in Michigan’ thing and I talked to him about it and it turned out he knew literally nothing about it other than what Bill O’Reilly (or whoever) had told him on the radio. He in general is just completely mistrustful of the election and it’s because he’s been repeatedly fed crocks of shit about voter fraud by conservative grifters preying on their listeners’ lack of expertise/ignorance about election specifics. Very dispiriting to see, to be honest.

  244. ess-dog:
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Zach Lowe told Macri that:

    – NYK is reluctant to talk about trades with RJ and Mitch
    – Knox, #8, and the two Dallas picks for #2 was essentially rebuffed
    – interest in Oladipo has cooled

    OMG! As bad as this organization has been run over the last 20 years I can’t imagine any POBO or GM even considering that trade.

  245. d-mar, I agree with you, but you’re still looking at it through your lib-tard, science-based glasses. If ALL you hear is the numbers of dead are inflated by fear-mongers and it’s no worse than the flu and masks aren’t actually needed, that’s all you know. There IS no other reality.

    It’s total bat-shit insanity, but what’s insane is that we’ve let it happen. It’s important not to think of the actual beliefs as insanity, no matter how nutty they may be, because it is, literally, all many of them know. It’s like saying that a lot of people who lived 2,000 years ago were insane for believing the world was flat, despite evidence to the contrary 500 years before that. But at that point in time, who really knew anything about ancient Greek studies?

    Now Kyrie, he’s just bat-shit insane.

  246. onservative media feeds a fictional reality to their listeners.

    No truly open minded thoughtful person on either side of the political spectrum listens to any of the mainstream news sources anymore (except maybe for comic relief).

    It’s obvious both sides are corrupt extensions of corrupt political parties and the different corrupt economic and other interests that control them.

    It’s a legitimate dilemma for those of us that just want unspun truth to inform our decision making process and that are beyond our youthful naivety.

    It’s hard to find solid primary source information, especially in an era of growing propaganda from many sources (home and abroad) and censorship from people that don’t understand the implications of that path and why it’s so horribly wrong.

    I learned one lesson from my investment career that may be of value. When I used to listen to company conference calls I would tend to assume that the CEO, CFO etc… and the best analysts were giving me an honest appraisal of the business and it’s prospects to the best of their ability. I eventually realized they were either knowingly or unknowingly overly optimistic and often wrong. It may have been a personality trait that goes along with that kind of success or they may have just been spinners and liars like in the media, but the lesson was learned.

    “Don’t listen to what people in power say. Don’t listen to analysts. Watch what those people actually DO and then look at the results and data”.

    If you can cut through your own political biases and truly want to get at the truth, that’s a much better path than listening to lying and corrupt politicians and lying and corrupt news sources. I may still be wrong some of the time, but I’m less naive about it.

  247. Not sure if this has been talked about before, but the Eastern Division is looking might difficult, and even if we do something like get CP3, might result in us getting a very good pick for 2021 if rumors are correct and we’ll be playing basically a divisional schedule.

    Boston – Ainge, ECFs this year
    Toronto – Masai, Nick Nurse, champion last season
    Philly – now run by Morey
    Nets – Kyrie/Durant

    I mean those might be 4 out of the top 5 seeds in the eastern conference right there.

  248. Fuck this “both sides” shit.

    Is there a left wing equivalent to QAnon?

    Is there a left wing equivalent to Tucker Carlson going on air last night and repeating flat out, easily debunkable lies like “One Michigan district reported a 122,000 to 0 margin for Biden last night” and then never correcting that?

    Is there an equivalent to the entire right wing media crying “theft” when it’s obvious to anybody with half a brain that we are simply counting mail-in ballots and it takes some time?

    CNN and MSNBC are biased, there is no question about that. That’s not where you should be looking for factual news. But there is some rather obvious asymmetry going on here. I can’t believe that anybody could be fucking stupid or willfully ignorant enough not to see that.

  249. I don’t miss that point at all. I’m not talking about a quick fix here. But like I said, even in the most rural and conservative counties, you still have 15 to 30 percent of the population that votes Democrat. If we could somehow support those people, they could build something on the ground level that could eventually pay off. I think part of the problem is these rural areas have so little opportunities for work, education, etc…that anyone who is liberal or smart or different gets the F out of there when they can. I have a lot of admiration for progressives who stay in those communities. Like I keep saying, I’m not talking about flipping rural America blue. I’m talking about eroding 15 to 20 percent of the support there. If Trump had 10 percent less support in those rural counties this week, the election would have been long over by now.

  250. lots of book talk and recommendations in this thread. if you’re picking anything up i hope you’re buying from the strand or using strandbooks.com if you’re not local.

    holy cow, are there still brick and mortar bookstores left in the world…just looked at the inside pics of the store – i so wanna go work there…like yesterday…

    dan in vermont has got a really nice bookstore in his small town…thank goodness barnes and noble hasn’t gone under – yet…

    if, there are still any around by the time i retire – that’s where you’ll find me doing some part time gig :)

    i never could get in to reading on a tablet, there’s just something about holding a book in your hand that’s magic…like a ticket to a whole other world…

  251. The asymmetry thing is infuriating.

    Sure, maybe Joe Biden helped hunter get a job. Trump literally is using the presidency to rake in millions in overseas contracts.

    Its like saying someone who steals a dollar is just as bad as someone who steals 10 grand.

  252. I don’t miss that point at all. I’m not talking about a quick fix here. But like I said, even in the most rural and conservative counties, you still have 15 to 30 percent of the population that votes Democrat. If we could somehow support those people, they could build something on the ground level that could eventually pay off.

    Agree with this. Dems should try to compete everywhere. I do think you will see more of this going forward, clearly they now know they must cut at least somewhat into that rural advantage for the Rs.

  253. As someone originally from rural Illinois, I would agree with swift that there is potential to change some minds in the boonies (with myself being a prime example of someone who was Republican as a teenager and grew up as an adult). The problem is the miasma of conservative misinformation that blankets most rural communities. If everyone there that’s politically inclined is listening to Glenn Beck or some similar fuckwad nonstop, that inoculates them against anything that isn’t a brute emotional appeal, since that’s what they’re used to at this point after years and years of it.

  254. The problem is the miasma of conservative misinformation that blankets most rural communities.

    It’s not just Fox and OAN either, it’s wingnut radio and Sinclair-owned local TV stations too.

    We’re in a war against bullshit, and bullshit is winning.

  255. That’s the problem with ‘do your own research you simpletons.’ Most people don’t have the training or sufficiently developed critical thinking to adequately separate bullshit from fact online, and most people don’t have the time/inclination to obsessively fact check what they hear on the radio and see on TV. So they have a question, look for an answer and find something within seconds that confirms their existing opinion. Voila! They’ve “done the research.” Look at the Qanon crowd – they will relentlessly claim to have done research and all that amounts to is watching some nonsense fever dream Youtube conspiracy crap with all the credibility of everyone’s crazy uncle.

  256. Taking my mind off the depressingly polarized state of the country, here’s a very good Vorkunov profile of Leon Rose.

    hey al…i don’t have the atlantic subscription – anything that really stood out to you that makes you think he might be succesful in this job?

    also, i really liked that interview you did with the watchman show…anything else similar to that you can recommend?

  257. I think that’s the Athletic, geo, but you can get around the Atlantic paywall by using incognito mode.

  258. Z-man:
    This is like a quadruple-overtime game 7 where the best players on both teams have all fouled out…

    Yeah, but only if the same team keeps getting the first basket of each overtime and then screams, “Game over! I win!”

  259. Went for a back2back shootaround this noon at a new open playground – the 5th! – which is the nearest to me but had never visited before.
    Locked.
    F#@K!
    After finding the lowest iron fence i broke in and started shooting.
    19/100 again
    I was in my second bunch (3/23) when i heard a lady’s voice:
    -Sir! How did you get in here?
    – i jumped over the fence.
    – Why?
    -To shoot some shoots!
    -You ‘re not allowed to be here due to Covid19.
    -Really? Didn’t know that. Sorry for the trouble.
    While i was leaving the place from the door she had just unlocked i told her:
    -That’s how talents are getting lost…
    She laughed

    The Bad: Due to covid even the open playgrounds are locked in Greece.
    The Ugly: The country goes to Lockdown starting by tomorrow.
    The Good: After the Covid emergency the playground locks would probably disappear.

    When i make shootaround plans gods of bball laugh…

  260. Imagine someone walking into a history class and saying that primary sources are the only items of value in the pursuit of historical knowledge.

  261. Owen:
    The election is over. Tonight will be the only time in my life when I put Fox News on.

    My wife hate-watches that shit all the time. I usually beg her to turn it off. We’ll watch later I’m sure.

  262. Donnie Walsh: Also, I haven’t seen it talked about, but black voters in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Atlanta are the reason that Trump’s lead last night evaporated. These are the NBA cities. The NBA cities that worked with their players and owners to turn out the vote in. This is the LeBron effect. He deserves credit for threatening to lead his teammates out of the bubble.

    Stacey Abrams deserves big credit in Georgia, win or lose. Didn’t pout about not getting the VP nod and definitely delivered. And if both Georgia and Pennsylvania go Biden (along with Arizona and Nevada) and it will electorally look like the blowout everyone expected even if the margins in some states are razor thin.

    I have to say I’m still worried about Trump pulling an inside straight- he still has a decent shot at Arizona given how much ground he made up last night and is still leading in both Georgia and Pennsylvania and any decrease in the massive percentages Biden has been getting in late ballot counting and Trump could still squeak out victories there too. And if so…

  263. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Imagine someone walking into a history class and saying that primary sources are the only items of value in the pursuit of historical knowledge.

    Imagine walking into a doctor’s office and demanding to read and interpret your test results yourself instead of the doctor or nurse telling you what they mean.

  264. I wonder if bobneptune would be defending Trump’s despicable actions today and going with the official Fox News party line that counting mail-in ballots means the election is rigged.

    Of course everything Trump does is appalling, but his behavior today is, predictably, the bottom of the barrel.

  265. Minorities are not monoliths. (Captain Obvious, I know).

    Needs to be hammered home more. The third wave bullshit about specific traches of voters (suburban moms etc) looks to have preformed even worse than it usually does. Swift is absolutely right that dems need to be competing everywhere. Politics is more local than it has been in a long time, they need local expertise.

  266. Exit polls should be taken with a huge grain of salt, especially this year.

    Look at how shitty the pre-election polls did. I’m gonna guess the exit polling is probably even worse than that.

  267. ***Look at how shitty the pre-election polls did. I’m gonna guess the exit polling is probably even worse than that.***

    Exit polls are conducted in person, where as pre-election polls are conducted on the telephone. So they’re not at all the same. But, that said, exit polls conducted in a pandemic, with fewer people actually exiting the polls, may not be as accurate as years past.

  268. Exit polls are conducted in person, where as pre-election polls are conducted on the telephone. So they’re not at all the same. But, that said, exit polls conducted in a pandemic, with fewer people actually exiting the polls, may not be as accurate as years past.

    +1

    They’re trying to do this year’s exit polls, the good ones, with some blend of live in-person interviews and phone calls but I don’t trust those numbers at all.

  269. Puerto Ricans voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Cubans voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

    Totally anecdotal evidence, but I think a lot of the discrepancy here can be ascribed to the Socialism boogeyman.

    Similar to Swift’s mom, my Mom is not a racist. She’s an intelligent lady who unfortunately spent all of her formative years either fleeing a communist revolution as a refugee or living through the thick of the Cold War.

    That lens colors EVERYTHING (FFS, her favorite book as a little girl was The Fountainhead) – unfortunately, her critical faculties shut down as soon as the word “socialism” enters her ear canals. She dislikes Trump, and wholeheartedly agrees that he’s an amoral racist, sexist, xenophobic pig who is devoid of decorum, scruples, and brains. She knows he botched the virus response (and also empowered his horde of moronic supporters to rebel against masks and become superspreaders).

    She acknowledges his impact on public discourse.

    She acknowledges that his economic stewardship is extremely tilted towards the immediate near term (to her this is a feature, rather than a bug – like a jaded cop approaching pension age, the goal is to get through the the next few years and cash out the 401(k)).

    Pointing this stuff out and agreeing on it is easy. What’s impossible is actually demonstrating a positive VORP for Biden, especially when the haircuts on TV shout “Socialism!” Trump may be a bigoted moron, but to some, his one redeeming quality is the fact that he IS extremely selfish. Whereas, in Fox Land, Biden is all about asset seizure and the redistribution of wealth. Old people are very easily triggered, which would be funny if it didn’t have real world impact.

  270. Went for a back2back shootaround this noon at a new open playground – the 5th! – which is the nearest to me but had never visited before.
    Locked.
    F#@K!
    After finding the lowest iron fence i broke in and started shooting.

    thanks KYN, that made me smile :)

    i mean c’mon, we’re human beings, fences and signs ain’t made for stopping us, hell no, might slow some of us up a bit, but, that’s all…much easy to simply say, oops sorry, afterwards…

    sadly due to extreme violence at some of our schools here in the states, you can’t really even think about slipping on to primary school grounds to run a track or shoot hoops…

  271. If ALL you hear is the numbers of dead are inflated by fear-mongers and it’s no worse than the flu and masks aren’t actually needed, that’s all you know. There IS no other reality.

    The problem here (and with most arguments about politics) is that you can’t win without actually engaging with and deconstructing the opposing argument. Nobody* voluntarily engages with opposing arguments, because they’re usually being made by the kind of annoying fckwad who would start an argument about politics in the first place.

    The opposing argument goes like this:
    Public funds are being (duly) allocated to combating COVID –> the areas with higher incidence of COVID will receive the most funding –> hospitals are incentivized to attribute cause of death to COVID in scenarios that aren’t clear cut, thus, the actual numbers probably aren’t as high as reported.

    It’s dumb, and it falls apart when asked for actual data/statistics, but it’s not completely bats irrational (this is why some people don’t question it).

    *fun side note – some people do. A friend of mine derives a lot of pleasure from conversations like this, and once did an extremely detailed deep dive (about 6 months of research) on Flat Earth logic in order to more effectively fck with people.

  272. hey al…i don’t have the atlantic subscription – anything that really stood out to you that makes you think he might be succesful in this job?

    It’s in The Athletic (which is offering discounted subscriptions today if you click on that link, I believe, and is my first sports read every morning). Nothing hugely illuminating, but a fuller portrait of Rose as both a grinder and someone who values and engenders loyalty. One of the reasons he took this job, for instance, despite Dolan’s deserved reputation, is that Guitar Jimmy has always kept his word to Rose in prior dealings.

    Will he succeed? Again, who the hell knows? But he has hired a whole lot of smart people so far (though I continue to question leaving Perry in place), and the tea leaves being offered for guys like Macri to read are that he’s going to be patient and opportunistic.

    also, i really liked that interview you did with the watchman show…anything else similar to that you can recommend?

    That one was a lot of fun, yeah. (I had freaking Trent Reznor zooming into my home office!) I’m not called on often to do videos like that, but I will have a new podcast series debuting in early 2021 with celebrity guests in every episode.

  273. the argument is irrelevant…all that really matters is the sales pitch and the sales person…

    I thought that pain and truth were things that really mattered
    But you can’t stay here with every single hope you had shattered

    been thinking of what country would i wanna live in if it ain’t here…my thought for many years has been of costa rica, got dna from there…last few years though it seems like the answer has become japan…seems clean, lots of green…fairly regimented culture…sadly, the government there hates cannabis like crazy, but, i could figure something out…

  274. Meanwhile, there’s a game of telephone going on re: the Zach Lowe piece. He never spoke to Macri. Macri read Zach’s piece and summed it up on Twitter. Here is the relevant passage, direct from the original piece, regarding Golden State’s trade options at 2:

    Finding a trade-back scenario that nabs veteran help while reaping appropriate value for the No. 2 pick is difficult. A potential package from the Knicks of No. 8, Kevin Knox II, and two Dallas first-rounders doesn’t get it done, and might not leave enough of the trade exception for another quality player. (New York has been reluctant to discuss RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson, sources say.)

    Lowe also has some sense of what the Knicks want to do re: Oladipo (“wait and see”), and also regarding our willingness to, like Detroit, take on bad salaries for assets:

    The intel with the Knicks is more blurry. They have projected similar patience in some talks, sources say, but their definition of “unwanted salaries” might be different than Detroit’s — i.e., they might want players who can help their 2020-21 team without compromising future cap room. Regarding bigger names, it might be as simple as New York pivoting from “dumping ground” to “talent acquisition” mode only for a small bucket of players under some age threshold and available at the right price.

  275. ###i mean c’mon, we’re human beings, fences and signs ain’t made for stopping us, hell no, might slow some of us up a bit, but, that’s all…much easy to simply say, oops sorry, afterwards…###

    I had the “sorry” and the “do you prefer me to take drugs instead of working out?” ready and waiting just in case!
    Seriously now i thought they had locked the playgrounds to keep it for use only by the basketball teams of the area and that made me crazy.

    ###sadly due to extreme violence at some of our schools here in the states, you can’t really even think about slipping on to primary school grounds to run a track or shoot hoops…###

    Yeah. I get that.Sad but what can you do ?

    My next dream-goal is to jump over a fence of a kindergarten school that has Mini Baskets (Steady as the normal ones but much Lower) and try to throw some dunks just like almost 30yrs ago!!!!
    Unfortunately the fence looks like a tough one to climb but the excitement of a possible dunk will give me wings!

  276. I will have a new podcast series debuting in early 2021 with celebrity guests in every episode.

    super cool sir, you definitely killed that one – will there be vids to go along or just audio, i liked being able to see the folks talking…that dude at the end was freaking awesome…you were pretty much beaming the whole time, which is definitely contagious, that was a very cool situation…

    i am optimistic about leon, honestly after watching mills and perry up in the stands for a couple of years with their faces all grim and their asshole tighter than a frog’s – it was so cool to see leon with perry next to him smiling…it was like wtf is that happening…i think he’s had his daughter in the stands a few times with him too…

    people don’t have to like you for you to be a good leader…i’ve seen a few leaders who been really successful through intimidation, micromanagement and fear…it can definitely work for a a couple of years before folks start burning out on it…after a period of time people either leave or just say fuck it, i’ll do enough to cover my ass and that’s it…

    however, if you can generate both respect and appeal, chances are good you’re gonna do okay…

    seriously, the resources available to him are incredible…you would think it would really take some serious effort to foul up the team…the front office seemed to aggressively find ways to fail…

  277. I was listening to DBowie’s Earthling album two days ago on cd with 4 bonus tracks.
    One of them was TReznor’s Mix of “I’m afraid of Americans” which actually sounded better than the original version on the album.
    I’m not crazy about TR’s music but when it comes to sound production the guy is a bad mfkr!

  278. Reznor’s speaking voice is also among the most mellifluous and hypnotic I’ve ever had the pleasure to hear in conversation.

    And Geo, just an audio podcast, though there may be some brief video clips on Twitter and such to promote. Mostly, it’s me and the guests in hoodies via Zoom.

  279. One of them was TReznor’s Mix of “I’m afraid of Americans”

    This was the peak of Nine Inch Nails’ newfound rocket ship of fame. It distorted my personality and became overwhelming: to deal with having everyone treat you different, to going from not being able to afford a gas bill to show up to arenas full of people, who kind of think they know you. The line starts to blur between the guy onstage and the person you used to be. My way of dealing with life was to numb myself with drugs and alcohol, because it made me feel better and more equipped to deal with everything. My career was skyrocketing, but the scaffolding that was holding me up as a person was starting to collapse. I wasn’t fully aware of how bad it was getting, but I knew, in my heart, that I was on an unsustainable, reckless, self-destructive path.

    When I met David, he had been through that. And he was content. He was at peace with himself, with an incredible wife, clearly in love. There were a number of times where the two of us were alone, and he said some things that weren’t scolding, but pieces of wisdom that stuck with me: “You know, there is a better way here, and it doesn’t have to end in despair or in death, in the bottom.”

    A full year later, I hit bottom. Once I got clean, I felt a tremendous amount of shame, of my actions and missed opportunities and the damage that I’ve caused in the past. And I thought back to the time when we were together a lot, and I wonder what that could have been like if I was at 100 percent. The “I’m Afraid of Americans” falls into that category of me at my worst — out of my mind and ashamed of who I was at that time. So when I see that, I have mixed feelings — grateful to be involved, and flattered to be a part of it, but disgusted at myself, at who I was at that time, and wishing I had been 100 percent me. And it nagged me.

  280. A few years later, Bowie came through L.A. I’d been sober for a fair amount of time. I wanted to thank him in the way that he helped me. And I reluctantly went backstage, feeling weird and ashamed, like, “Hey, I’m the guy that puked on the rug.” And again, I was met with warmth, and grace, and love. And I started to say, “Hey listen, I’ve been clean for …” I don’t even think I finished the sentence; I got a big hug. And he said, “I knew. I knew you’d do that. I knew you’d come out of that.” I have goosebumps right now just thinking about it. It was another very important moment in my life.

    I didn’t think we were done. It feels like the loss of a mentor, fatherly figure, someone looking out for you, reminding you that in a world where the bar keeps seeming to be lower, where stupidity has got a foothold, there is room for excellence and uncompromising vision.”

  281. After listening to Bowie’s latest albums nowadays (and without being a diehard fan) like Heathen, Reality, Hours, blackstar and the live A Reality Tour I’ve came up to the conclusion that:
    Bowie is (actually) God.

  282. ###That was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen. Also, very low energy.###

    What?
    Why?

  283. That was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen. Also, very low energy.

    i don’t know owen, that may just the moment speaking…in case you need a bit of a refresher course, the daily show did a wonderful wonderful job at summing things up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9ernOuKUOw

    yeah, he was somewhat “subdued”, but still as vile and poisonous as ever…

  284. Knew Your Nicks:
    ###That was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen. Also, very low energy.###

    What?
    Why?

    i believe he was referring to our soon to be ex-presidents rambling press conference that was likely not televised in Athens…

  285. hey chucky, i got one for you man…you seem to like that horror stuff a bit – have you ever watched that Purge stuff…

    watched one of the movies by accident a few weeks ago…i’ve gone through most of the content on it now…still gotta catch one more movie (election year) and the second season from the tv show, which, was pretty god awful, – but i loved it anyways…

  286. We donated to Fair Fight over the summer and I feel GREAT about that investment.

    Stacy Abrams has a bright future.

  287. I also like Stacy Abrams. My wife and I go back and forth about whether she would have been a better VP choice than Kamala Harris. She’s a huge Kamala fan and thinks KH is more ready to be president.

  288. Z-man:
    I also like Stacy Abrams. My wife and I go back and forth about whether she would have been a better VP choice than Kamala Harris. She’s a huge Kamala fan and thinks KH is more ready to be president.

    I love Stacey Abrams, way more than I Kamala Harris, and I absolutely did not want Abrams to be VP. Honestly, VP is a pretty thankless, kind of deadend job and it would have taken Abrams away from running an organization to turn Georgia blue and hopefully running for statewide office there again.

  289. Berman’s talking up Josh Green as a prospect for us to consider at 27, and also mentions a bunch of other shooting guards, point guards (assuming we don’t take one at 8), and Vernon Carey. Hard to tell whether this is just a filler story or if he’s hearing these names from Perry and company. I kind of like Desmond Bane, but as with all these prospects, all of my knowledge is even more secondhand than in a normal year. So, two-part question, with the caveat that BPA should absolutely be the goal so late in the first round:

    * If we’ve taken a PG at 8, is there a wing or big man you like who seems likely to still be there at 27?

    * If we’ve taken a wing at 8, which PG do you want at 27? Riller, Flynn, Maledon, or other?

  290. * If we’ve taken a PG at 8, is there a wing or big man you like who seems likely to still be there at 27?

    Paul Reed is a pretty interesting prospect to me. I haven’t watched much of him outside of the occasional highlight reel, but averaging 4+ stocks/40 in all of his NCAA seasons is pretty impressive and his FT% gives you at least a little hope he might develop a 3PT shot.

    Isaiah Stewart would be a minor coup at 27 IMO, but I think it’s less than 50/50 he’s still there. I’d say the same thing about Desmond Bane on the wing side.

    * If we’ve taken a wing at 8, which PG do you want at 27? Riller, Flynn, Maledon, or other?

    I’d take Dotson over anyone in this crowd and it’s a little confusing to me that he’s not getting more attention.

  291. I should add that if Cole Anthony is there at #27…I don’t think it would be the end of the world to roll the dice. I would NOT trade up for him under any circumstances, but it has been shown that high school/EYBL numbers matter to some extent and his were very good.

    They matter less than NCAA numbers to be clear, which is why I wouldn’t go near him until late in the first round and even then I’d prefer Dotson and multiple other prospects.

    Just sayin’, it’d be a lot different than taking him at #8.

  292. Also, an Okoro/Tillman/Riller combo would be real nice.

    But I do think we will likely end up with Kira in this draft somehow, maybe not at 8.

  293. Not feeling super great about this Dec 22nd restart that is more-or-less ignoring the ongoing pandemic.

  294. Berman says management is looking at Kidd-Gilchrist as an inexpensive FA signing to come off the bench, and also that the team doesn’t plan to keep Harkless. Without digging into the numbers, this seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other: two good defensive wings who never learned to shoot.

  295. DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!

    No, I’m not talking about Trump, yet. Rather Cohen/Alderson have fired Brodie Van Wagenen and most of the rest of the front office, including Omar Minaya, again.

    What a waster of two years for the Mets…and the damage will linger on.

  296. TheClashFan:
    DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!

    No, I’m not talking about Trump, yet. Rather Cohen/Alderson have fired Brodie Van Wagenen and most of the rest of the front office, including Omar Minaya, again.

    What a waster of two years for the Mets…and the damage will linger on.

    Just saw that! Excited that dumbass is finally gone but can’t help but think it’s a preview for the Knicks hiring an agent to run the team.

  297. Owen:
    Talk about catharsis.

    I wonder how JK47 is celebrating. Although Cano did hit this year.

    Dang, I may not need viagra tonight…

  298. I like Hayes, but it’s just funny to see stuff like, “Oh, well, if Will Bynum thinks he’s got what it takes, then I’m sold.” :)

  299. I wonder how JK47 is celebrating. Although Cano did hit this year.

    The fascist is getting kicked out of the White House and Brodie got canned about ten minutes after Steve Cohen took the reins. Omar Minaya’s dumb ass is outta there too. What’s next, James Dolan decides hoops ownership is not for him and he sells the team to Warren Buffett?

    I’ll trade Cano back for Kelenic if the M’s wanna do it

  300. Dang, I may not need viagra tonight…

    :)

    no doubt seeing donald douche out of the white house on Jan 20, and then hopefully by the end of the year seeing that schmuck in cuffs will keep me hard for weeks…

    looking good for that runoff for georgia in january…Movin’ to the country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches, Movin’ to the country, Gonna eat me a lot of peaches, Movin’ to the country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches, Movin’ to the country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches – If I had my little way, I’d eat peaches every day

  301. so, initial counts may take up to 7 or 8 days…hopefully the second time through takes less than half of that…

    we should know final final counts by november 12, i’m picking november 14 as concession day…

  302. geo: no doubt seeing donald douche out of the white house on Jan 20, and then hopefully by the end of the year seeing that schmuck in cuffs will keep me hard for weeks…

    Talk to me when you’re 62…

  303. JK47: The fascist is getting kicked out of the White House and Brodie got canned about ten minutes after Steve Cohen took the reins. Omar Minaya’s dumb ass is outta there too. What’s next, James Dolan decides hoops ownership is not for him and he sells the team to Warren Buffett?

    I’ll trade Cano back for Kelenic if the M’s wanna do it

    I’m with you, my musical west coast brotha..

    We don’t really know yet whether Cohen is a class A or class B douche, but so far, so good!

  304. I saw a post on a Mets forum comparing Alderson coming back to the Mets to Michael Corleone coming back to settle all family business!

    Hopefully Rose is nowhere near the pompous idiot that BVW was.

  305. I’m a little disappointed that Harkless is probably not going to be back and they are looking at Michael Kidd-Gilchrist instead. I like Harkless’s game better and he certainly had a better year last year. It sounds like Harkless didn’t even want to come back given he didn’t show up for the mini camp. I don’t blame him, but for awhile it sounded like he was happy to be in NY. I hope they use that Ciipper pick to move up because we are unlikely to get anyone as good as Morris at 27 and it doesn’t sound like we are going put someone as good in that space.

  306. Reading through this blog on politics is sometimes like uncovering evidence there’s a link between the mainstream media and being delusional and possible brain damage. It’s almost as bad as the nonsense I get from both sides on my Twitter feed.

  307. Hopefully Rose is nowhere near the pompous idiot that BVW was.

    I read the Athletic article about him. He doesn’t sound pompous at all.

  308. Deeefense:
    Reading through this blog on politics is sometimes like uncovering evidence there’s a link between the mainstream media and being delusional and possible brain damage.It’s almost as bad as the nonsense I get from both sides on my Twitter feed.

    Go fuck yourself

  309. vincoug: Deeefense:
    Reading through this blog on politics is sometimes like uncovering evidence there’s a link between the mainstream media and being delusional and possible brain damage.It’s almost as bad as the nonsense I get from both sides on my Twitter feed.

    Go fuck yourself

    What’s hilarious (in a pathetic sense) is that a poster so craven and depraved that he skulks away from this site promising to never post again and soon (oh so predictably) comes crawling back under another handle has the temerity to question the mental health of the vast majority of posters here.

    And that’s what strat is…pathetic KB laughing stock, a two-bit attention whore…so intellectually and morally bankrupt that he actually thinks he owns the delusional libtards with his brilliant “brain damage” quip.

    I’m looking forward to Deeefense’s new tag the next time he leaves forever.

  310. I can’t believe the media is still talking about giving up assets to get CP3 to NY. It’s incomprehensible to me that anyone could be this incompetent. It has to be click bait fake news. It’s also incomprehensible to me that CP3 would want to spend the last 2 years of his career on a team that’s in rebuild hell.

  311. strat the irony of your universal corruption axiom is that it’s the worldly equivalent of your basketball arch nemesis, the dreaded all in one stat. it’s great that you learned ceos and sell siders lie, spin and confabulate. but this revelation space isn’t as rarified as you seem to think. what you interpret as people lacking your hard-earned skepticism-epiphany is in most cases just nuance. nuance that you seem to lack in this context.

    sure, elon musk, reed hastings and aaron levie are all subject to dissonance aversion, tribalism, or just being completely full of shit because of conflicts between their incentives and the truth. but if you think this is equally or even similarly true for all three you might want to learn how to, you know…watch games. because only a fool could do so and still believe this. this is also true for “mainstream media” and politicians. you may believe that your approach of just giving everyone an honesty bpm of -3.0 has served you well, but you’ve left a ton of useful information on the table. if you think trump and tucker carlson and sean hannity are similarly divorced from the “primary source” truth as jeff flake and anne applebaum and maggie haberman, you have dave berri’d yourself and everyone you purport to lecture.

    learning that ppg worship is dangerous isn’t the end all be all of basketball knowledge, as you often argue. learning that politicians, media and ceos are human and biased is similarly both useful and anemic. calling people brain damaged for finding important differentiation beyond this generalization is not spewing accumulated wisdom. it’s the easy way out.

  312. Z-man

    I can no longer log into my Stratomatic ID even if I wanted to.

    I love the Knicks and enjoy taking about them. There are a lot of very bright and talented people here. That’s why I returned.

    I simply think on both politics and basketball many here are in a kind of bubble that’s closing them off from getting closer to a kind of “balanced truth”. On politics it’s the result of spin and lies from the corrupt media. I see the same thing among very bright people on “right” leaning forums.

    It eventually becomes a self reinforcing delusion unless you go outside that bubble with REAL interest. I know. I’ve been there.

    When I throw out those digs, it’s not personal. It’s a dig at the corrupt and incompetent media (virtually all of it). I despise them for slowly splitting the country into what is basically two delusional groups.

    A few of the people at your favorite newspaper, on your favorite political shows, on your favorite blogs etc.. are well meaning people with a variety of values, priorities, and ideas on how to best achieve many of things we ALL want, But many of them are spinning and lying scumbags with agendas that are purposely misleading you. They are causing you to misunderstand and hate the other side so they can better impose their will. These are intrinsically bad people that are lying to you.

  313. this is also true for “mainstream media” and politicians. you may believe that your approach of just giving everyone an honesty bpm of -3.0 has served you well, but you’ve left a ton of useful information on the table.

    It’s as difficult to find true value in the media as it is to find the truth about a player from just the boxscore. Obviously, some are worse than others, but I’d be willing to bet some of the people you rate a plus 2 are actually a -2. You just don’t know it (yet?).

  314. Obviously, some are worse than others

    if you do believe this i suspect you have no idea how deeply you shroud it behind your polemic and superlative laden communication style

  315. Strat thinks that every left-leaning person here is mainlining hours of MSNBC and CNN everyday because he thinks everyone else is as intellectually lazy as him. It’s hilarious. I’ve probably watched a combined 30 minutes of cable news across the past 5 years or so.

    What’s hilarious (in a pathetic sense) is that a poster so craven and depraved that he skulks away from this site promising to never post again and soon (oh so predictably) comes crawling back under another handle has the temerity to question the mental health of the vast majority of posters here.

    Don’t forget that it wasn’t the original plan to just reemerge with a different handle. When “Deeefense” first showed up (48 hours or so after Strat said we’d never hear from him again), he made a hilariously pathetic attempt to change his writing style, biographical information, and even his opinions on some things. He didn’t want people to know he was Strat.

    He was quickly discovered because he couldn’t help but retreat to the comfortable terrain of utter nonsense (a moderate Democrat would somehow win 45 states, Phil Jackson was actually good, etc.).

  316. ptmilo: if you do believe this i suspect you have no idea how deeply you shroud it behind your polemic and superlative laden communication style

    There are exceptions to almost all rules. if I overstate my deeply held feelings about media by generalizing too much, it’s not by much. So many people in the media are spinning lying dregs, I am not wildly exaggerating. When an occasional truth teller comes to mind, I’ll try to make a note of the exception.

  317. Strat thinks that every left-leaning person here is mainlining hours of MSNBC and CNN everyday because he thinks everyone else is as intellectually lazy as him. It’s hilarious. I’ve probably watched a combined 30 minutes of cable news across the past 5 years or so.

    I don’t think that.

    I think the NY Times, LA Times, WSJ, Barrons, Washington Post, Washington Times, The Financial Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNBC, PBS, Fox Business, the libertarian blogs I read sometimes and all the rest of them are mostly full of crap too. Hell, there are times I’m almost certain I got a more balanced and accurate appraisal of the thinking in Russia from the Russian Times (RT) than any US source on the subject of Crimea. Our country was full of shit. And believe me, I’m no Putin fan. I just prefer gangsters looking to protect their territory and do oil and gas deals than full out communist Chinese hell bent on dominating the world economically and politically eventually.

  318. Don’t forget that it wasn’t the original plan to just reemerge with a different handle. When “Deeefense” first showed up (48 hours or so after Strat said we’d never hear from him again), he made a hilariously pathetic attempt to change his writing style, biographical information, and even his opinions on some things. He didn’t want people to know he was Strat.

    Some day in you life you’ll be right about something, but today is not that day. :-)

    I tried to delete my Stratomatic ID, but could not. So I changed the password to some random letters and digits that I could not duplicate. The email address associated with it has long been deleted. So there was no way to reset the password. That ID is dead because I wanted it that way.

    I created a new ID sometime later when I had second thoughts about never positing again. I went about my business posting exactly as usual without admitting or denying who I was because I found the initial speculation if it was really me hysterical. I was laughing my ass off.

    But this is a brand new ID associated with a different email address and my desire to stop posting was very sincere. The experience was becoming more negative than positive.

    My second thoughts were probably a mistake, but so be it. I should have just moved on. My politics and views on basketball are so different than the consensus here, there’s not much else to say and no point to it. but there aren’t many good Knicks discussions anywhere.

  319. thenoblefacehumper: Don’t forget that it wasn’t the original plan to just reemerge with a different handle. When “Deeefense” first showed up (48 hours or so after Strat said we’d never hear from him again), he made a hilariously pathetic attempt to change his writing style, biographical information, and even his opinions on some things. He didn’t want people to know he was Strat.

    Yeah, that pretty much says it all…it was perhaps the most disingenuous thing ever done on this site…save for gianadana maybe?

  320. Deeefense: There are exceptions to almost all rules.if I overstate my deeply held feelings about media by generalizing too much, it’s not by much.So many people in the media are spinning lying dregs, I am not wildly exaggerating. When an occasional truth teller comes to mind, I’ll try to make a note of the exception.

    You called everyone here that disagrees with you delusional and brain-damaged.

  321. I’m a Yankee fan, but I’d like to paraphrase Gary Cohen on this one…

    “That sonavabitch is OUTTA HEA!!! HE’S OUTTA HEA!!!”

    Did I do it right JK47?

  322. Deeefense: My second thoughts were probably a mistake, but so be it. I should have just moved on. My politics and views on basketball are so different than the consensus here, there’s not much else to say and no point to it. but there aren’t many good Knicks discussions anywhere.

    More bullshit. Most of us have had vehement disagreements with broad swaths of posters here, so there’s no “consensus” other than back up what you say with math, science or scholarship, or at least admit that it is speculation or conjecture. You talk out of your ass and make sweeping generalizations that often (not always but often) fly in the face of even a rudimentary level of logical reckoning. It’s shocking that you aren’t embarrassed by it and keep coming back for more after getting beaten down again and again by people much smarter and wiser than you.

  323. yay, it’s actually raining here in so cal…

    oh, and the orange man is getting kicked out of the white house…today is a good day…

    still a tremendous amount of work to be done, but, the first step today was really important…

  324. Z-man: More bullshit. Most of us have had vehement disagreements with broad swaths of posters here, so there’s no “consensus” other than back up what you say with math, science or scholarship, or at least admit that it is speculation or conjecture.

    lmao

    I have obviously had a tough time communicating that the core of my arguments have been that the existing basketball math cannot capture basketball reality well. So if you keep using it and insisting it has to be at the core of your case, imo you just reinforcing the kind of bubble thinking I disagree with.

    IMO, a closer glimpse of reality requires what amounts to being a subjective analysis of many unique player qualities, situations, skills, fit, coaching, systems etc.. to go along with some useful basic data. That means informed people will sometimes disagree, but imo that’s better than using bad math and saying the math doesn’t support your view. IMO, It is better to approximately right using subjective analysis and some data than to be precisely wrong using incorrect math.

    Frank says hello. I hear he’s 6’7″ now.

  325. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Strat is the living embodiment of exclusively scouting via gut feeling

    Not true.

    In horse racing some gamblers focus on fractions and final times and some others focus on visual/qualitative things by watching races and picking up on subtle things not in the numbers.

    For years the purists on each side were in opposing camps.

    The truth is they both bring something to the table. My ADW account has been growing this weekend during the Breeder’s Cup races while those guys continue arguing who is right. :-)

    Basketball is no different other than the horse racing math is more evolved than the current public basketball math because brilliant math guys have been trying to win money at horses for a much longer time.

    It’s time for some gambling where your bottom line tells you the truth about what you know and what you don’t know. Have a good day.

  326. vincoug: You called everyone here that disagrees with you delusional and brain-damaged.

      

    I called pretty much the entire country delusional due to the media being corrupt. Everyone here is forming their views based on that same media. That covers both left, right, and extremes. The attack was on the media, not people here personally. It was a horribly written rant and using the term brain damaged was way over the top. I apologize for that, but my “true feelings” are the same. The media is fucking up the country and many of the views expressed here are based on bullshit.

  327. Deeefense: I called pretty much the entire country delusional due to the media being corrupt.Everyone here is forming their views based on that same media.That covers both left, right, and extremes. The attack was on the media, not people here personally. It was a horribly written rant and using the term brain damaged was way over the top. I apologize for that, but my “true feelings” are the same. The media is fucking up the country and many of the views expressed here are based on bullshit.

    Do you hear yourself at all?! The entire country is delusional except for you.

  328. hahahahaha… best thing of the morning, just saw someone holding a sign at the BLM plaza outside the white house saying: Fuck Your Fence…

    been waiting to exhale for a while now…feels good…

  329. Deeefense: I have obviously had a tough time communicating that the core of my arguments have been that the existing basketball math cannot capture basketball reality well.

    Probably because it’s total bullshit.

    Deeefense: That means informed people will sometimes disagree, but imo that’s better than using bad math and saying the math doesn’t support your view.

    Math baaaaad…conjecture goooood

    Deeefense: Basketball is no different other than the horse racing math is more evolved than the current public basketball math because brilliant math guys have been trying to win money at horses for a much longer time.

    Sorry, I don’t see the parallel between horse racing and basketball. Maybe you should switch to a track and field blog.

  330. Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a psychotic disorder. People who have it can’t tell what’s real from what is imagined.

    Delusions are the main symptom of delusional disorder. They’re unshakable beliefs in something that isn’t true or based on reality. But that doesn’t mean they’re completely unrealistic. Delusional disorder involves delusions that aren’t bizarre, having to do with situations that could happen in real life, like being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve mistaken perceptions or experiences. But in reality, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

    People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. But in some cases, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.

    Doctors have identified the “strat” type of delusion:

    Grandiose: This person has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. They could believe they have a great talent (“I know more than everybody about everything”) or made an important discovery (“stats don’t tell the whole picture”).

    flipping between this and the election coverage….both are very entertaining…

  331. geo:
    hahahahaha… best thing of the morning, just saw someone holding a sign at the BLM plaza outside the white house saying: Fuck Your Fence…

    been waiting to exhale for a while now…feels good…

    massive crowd in front of the white house…donnie will have to drive through it once he gets off the golf course to get back home…can’t wait to see that…

  332. Strat = smart
    Everybody else = dumb

    We are all fortunate to be in the presence of this towering intellectual titan.

    Also horse racing

  333. I created a new ID sometime later when I had second thoughts about never positing again. I went about my business posting exactly as usual without admitting or denying who I was because I found the initial speculation if it was really me hysterical. I was laughing my ass off.

    But this is a brand new ID associated with a different email address and my desire to stop posting was very sincere. The experience was becoming more negative than positive.

    My second thoughts were probably a mistake, but so be it. I should have just moved on. My politics and views on basketball are so different than the consensus here, there’s not much else to say and no point to it. but there aren’t many good Knicks discussions anywhere.

    i applaud you for your odd/strange manner – i can’t tell you how much i appreciate when folks say what they actually think…well, i may actually have to amend that long felt belief a bit now, but, that’s not you who i am thinking of…

    generally though, above all just be honest…express yourself…

    you should be you, it’s all you can ever do…hey, so i am guessing now that the whole stratomatic tag was tied to a reference to a certain type of guitar?

    or is it the baseball fantasy game thing?

    sounds like you got some fight back in to you – so, hoping your health is well…

  334. Strat may be paranoid, but he’s just a guy on the Internet to me.

    OTOH, one of my two younger brothers is family, and today he PM’ed me on FB to smugly tell how he “told” me that the election was rigged (some weeks ago he claimed that the USPS would throw Florida to Biden…no mention of Michigan, or Penn., or Georgia, etc.) and that he has access to secret knowledge that could prove it to me, if he could only tell me (he works for Homeland Security, screening immigrants from Mexico). I could tell you more, but that’s probably enough. Grandiose, huh?

    And sadly, he’s deadly serious. Now that’s paranoid and delusional.

  335. “generally though, above all just be honest…express yourself…”

    Best way to Peaceofmindland

  336. “Be kind, for every knicks fan you meet on the internet during the off-season is fighting a hard battle.” – Kynic

  337. just came back from a bike ride through Berkeley…like the summer of love down there…dancing..drinking…everyone happy….good day…

  338. Horse racing isn’t basketball; it’s the cipher to all wisdom in all fields. We simpletons have had our minds rotted by mainstreaming the mainstream media for years and can’t begin to comprehend the galaxy-brain omniscience Strat has unlocked after several decades of following horse races closely. Only a truly panoptic cognoscenti tapping into the undefiled fountain of Primary Sources and mining the hidden veins of Doing Your Own Research could begin to grasp the nuances of such elevated positions as “everyone else in the entire country has brain damage.” Such mental alchemy is beyond mere mortals like us, who are forced to look at reality as it appears to us rather than the hidden world of the sagacious philosopher-gamblers who serenely float above our base obsessions with facts and evidence, chortling at the obvious delusions of the peons, plebeians and poors laboring in the muck beneath them.

  339. Truth be told, I do like having strat around, and actually agree with him from time to time. Just wish he wasn’t such a [___________]. (Maybe Brian can do a poll on filling in the blank…)

  340. Z-man:
    Truth be told, I do like having strat around, and actually agree with him from time to time. Just wish he wasn’t such a [___________]. (Maybe Brian can do a poll on filling in the blank…)

    Philosopher-king?

  341. “everyone else in the entire country has brain damage.”

    As long as Strat’s keeping it local it’s fine by me! lol

  342. For the record, I also don’t bear Strat any ill will and have even enjoyed some of his contrarianism at times, since it does occasionally prompt people to go into the kind of detailed arguments I like reading and learning from as a non-expert in basketball that never played the sport beyond pickup games against similarly unskilled normies where I could abuse being 6 feet tall. I’m not even sure how to wrap my mind around the level of hubris and solipsism it would take to genuinely claim “everyone but me is a brain damaged, delusional media drone.”

  343. I don’t agree with Strat that the press is mostly delusional, but he’s right that you can’t rely on stats alone to analyze basketball. For example when both Robinson and Ntilikina were in foul trouble against Dallas, it didn’t make them equal in foul propensity. Ntilikina was guarding Doncic which is tough, but Robinson had no good reason for most of his fouls.

  344. Does anyone here actually advocate mindlessly regurgitating numbers without context though? That’s always seemed a bit of a strawman people fall back on, but most the time I feel the blog hive mind does a good job of explaining why they think a particular number or stat is relevant to the discussion or what they feel it means in a particular context.

  345. ***strat actually thinks that original research is the only path to knowledge***

    So much for Socrates.

    And that Jesus guy.

    And pretty much any great teacher who is now dead.

    (BUT… The primary source of Strat reporting on his own switch from Stratomatic to Deeeeefense forgot to include his Lockwood jr phase. So I guess even primary sources are biased. Wow!)

  346. Nicely turned out, Mike Honcho. Many have tried their hand at it, few have done so well. Applause, applause.

    I feel like I once wrote that was Strat’s greatest contribution: he’s inspirational.

  347. If you didn’t know Lockwood Jr was me, I take back all the things I said about there being a lot of intelligent and talented people on this forum.

    I’ve been talking about how much I love the “blues” for years. I’m pretty sure I even mentioned having seen Robert Lockwood Jr live at BB Kings and how he was my biggest influence when I was trying to learn that style. I really went out of my way to hide that. You guys are laughable.

    This is one of the biggest collections of very intelligent propagandized people I have ever seen. Hell, I know I am propagandized and that’s why I’m fighting so hard to avoid it. You guys relish it. It’s almost sad.

  348. Truth be told, I do like having strat around, and actually agree with him from time to time. Just wish he wasn’t such a [___________].

    Prick?

    Asshole?

    Smug dickhead?

    There is a cost to telling inconvenient truths, disagreeing with the consensus, getting combative and getting so frustrated that people are ignoring obvious realities that it comes through in what you say and how you say it (the latter being totally on me).

    Hell, I got barred from a horse racing forum dedicated to speed handicapping because I had the audacity to tell them they were missing a big part of the picture by not analyzing the pace carefully also. They didn’t want to hear it because they were so firmly entrenched in their beliefs. They demanded exact formulas (which don’t exist). The names I was called make you guys look like a bunch of girl scouts. That was about 10-15 years ago. Even though I was barred from posting, they allowed me to continue reading the forum because I still occasionally bought a product (and still do). Now, when I read the discussions there they often include pace. They hated me because of the message and partly because of my style, but they eventually figured out I was right. lol

  349. There is a cost to telling inconvenient truths, disagreeing with the consensus, getting combative and getting so frustrated that people are ignoring obvious realities that it comes through in what you say and how you say it (the latter being totally on me).

    You can find this passage verbatim in the comments section of any InfoWars video.

  350. ***If you didn’t know Lockwood Jr was me, I take back all the things I said about there being a lot of intelligent and talented people on this forum…This is one of the biggest collections of very intelligent propagandized people I have ever seen***

    I think it’s time to come clean here. I have multiple handles on this site, and I use them all daily, mostly to argue with myself, but occasionally I use one or two just for interacting with you. Basically, you and lockwood jr. are pretty much the only other people here. You see, it’s all a simulation. A simulation to see how narcissistic you are.

  351. The colloquies between Strat ( Deefense, Lockwood, jr) and the rest of the board during the Covid crisis has saved me from a descent into utter despair.

    Deeefense: Prick?

    Hell, I got barred from a horse racing forum dedicated to speed handicapping because I had the audacity to tell them they were missing a big part of the picture by not analyzing the pace carefully also.They didn’t want to hear it because they were so firmly entrenched in their beliefs.

    Horse racing’s loss is my gain.

  352. howdy bo, hope yourself and the family are all well…

    always different ways to look at a thing…seems pretty wise to find that one view which makes you happy :)

    it’s funny, everytime I see your name now I start thinking of academic legacy “skills” and just how fast the world around me is changing…

    i would guess that one of the more interesting things about being an educator is the ability to really track those changes much more closely…

    I look at the kids a little differently now and try harder to imagine the world from their perspective and how it will continue to change for them…

  353. who are some under the radar young guys we should go after this year instead of getting into a bidding war for justin holiday? i’m going to ignore guys who seem like they might actually get an over the radar bid like personal lovechild de’anthony melton and christian wood.

    1. john konchar. aesthetically displeasing prospect who should be cheap and really knows how to play.

    2. jordan mclaughlin. smallish pg but pesky defender and does genuine point guard things on offense. possibly will be able to shoot the nba 3. also very cheap.

    3. harry giles. might not end up in the bargain bin.

    4. derrick jones jr. see above.

    5. jevon carter. i’ve always thought he was an nba rotation worthy backupish pg somewhere in the middle of the chris childs charlie ward number line

    6. josh jackson. odds are long that he pulls it together but sort of a why not at a price situation.

    who else?

  354. Strat, at his intervention: “Okay, but have you ever considered that you have a sobriety problem?”

  355. Mr. Geo,
    Good to hear from you. In addition to legacy skills, remember the executive function skills also. I spend a lot of time with the students I tutor on that. The Google biosphere has all the tools one needs to help organize ( ie. calendar, tasks, reminders to Gmail) and kids really have an amazing proficiency with technology, so it is just a matter of integrating it into their routine. You can start your fourth grader with the basics, so as he progresses towards middle school you can scaffold on that.
    As to your point about kids’ perspectives on the World, one of my favorite parts of tutoring is I get invited into their worlds and find out how much gaming and social media influences their points of view. It frightens me as we have all witnessed how easily manipulated people are and this latest generation is growing up reading much less, watching less film, writing only via text or chat rooms. The ability of the people of this board to write coherently, lucidly, and persuasively strikes me as something we may not see in 20 years( though with AI lucid communication may become a vestigial function)

  356. pt,
    All interesting propositions. I also like the idea of going after Joe Harris, if just to tweak the Nets. He’s exactly the kind of player that would complement Thibs-friendly defensive players at other positions. Bertans too, but he might be too expensive.

    other guys to look at: Valentine, Chiozza, Leonard

  357. Bo Nateman: Ironic?

    No.

    You won’t hear me expressing many strong views on subjects where I don’t have the results to demonstrate my knowledge about the subject.

    I don’t debate or argue with the superior musicians here even though I have a strong interest. I’ve sought their advice at times.

    I don’t debate how to do math with the superior mathematicians. I only point out the occasional screaming flaws in the results of their models. It’s on them to try to fix it.

    I express views on basketball because I am winning gambler at it for my lifetime using the lessons I learned from horse racing where I am also a winner lifetime and this year again. That means I have insights that are not commonly shared or understood but that are correct often enough to outperform a lot of people that are a lot smarter than me that are locked into a false view of reality. Those lessons sometimes extend to other areas of life.

    I extend it to politics because on the path to being the mega cynic I am now, I was a McGovern supporter, evolved into Reagan supporter, evolved into a Ron Paul supporter, loved Keynes, figured out Keynes was an asshole after I read Ludwig von Mises. eventually figured out Mises and the Austrians were missing things and so on. I used to worship Warren Buffett. Now I think he’s a fraud (not financially but the persona). The whole path was the result of propaganda. That was the real moment of enlightenment. They are almost all full of shit (especially in these divisive times). You should not pay much attention to any of them. But for ptmilo, I’ll add one exception. Some are worse than others, some are honestly mistaken or unaware, and some are just scumbags. So on BPM they deserve different ratings.

  358. Deeefense: This is one of the biggest collections of very intelligent propagandized people I have ever seen. Hell, I know I am propagandized and that’s why I’m fighting so hard to avoid it. You guys relish it. It’s almost sad.

      

    WHAT IS THE STATE OF CLEAR?

    Clear is the name of a state achieved through auditing and describes a being who no longer has his own reactive mind, the hidden source of irrational behavior, unreasonable fears, upsets and insecurities. Without a reactive mind, individuals regain their basic personality, self-determinism and, in essence, become much, much more themselves.

    https://www.scientology.org/faq/clear/what-is-the-state-of-clear.html

  359. They’re not propagandized, they’re tribal and they’re tribal because social media and the internet tribalize.

  360. one of my favorite parts of tutoring is I get invited into their worlds and find out how much gaming and social media influences their points of view. It frightens me as we have all witnessed how easily manipulated people are and this latest generation is growing up reading much less, watching less film, writing only via text or chat rooms. The ability of the people of this board to write coherently, lucidly, and persuasively strikes me as something we may not see in 20 years

    They’re not propagandized, they’re tribal and they’re tribal because social media and the internet tribalize.

    it’s definitely possible to find comfort and some guidance from particular portions of the past, the present must be dealt with (gotta eat, gotta sleep, gotta do lots of stuff) – what’s most interesting though – is the future…

    hopefully come jan 21 twitter figures out some way to mute his (he who shall not be named – part II) voice for the immediate good of us all…or, at least the majority of us…

  361. The full glory of the state of Clear has no comparable description in any writings existing in our culture. It is a goal Man has dreamed of achieving for more than 2500 years, yet the state of Clear is far above anything anyone even conceived of previously.

    hahahahaha, oh, that’s some good shit there…

    going back a day or so – i think bowie hit pretty clearly on what a state of clear truly is:
    Johnny wants a brain
    Johnny wants to suck on a Coke
    Johnny wants a woman
    Johnny wants to think of a joke
    Johnny looks up at the stars
    Johnny combs his hair
    And Johnny wants pussy and cars…

  362. Deeefense: I express views on basketball because I am winning gambler at it for my lifetime using the lessons I learned from horse racing where I am also a winner lifetime and this year again. That means I have insights that are not commonly shared or understood but that are correct often enough to outperform a lot of people that are a lot smarter than me that are locked into a false view of reality. Those lessons sometimes extend to other areas of life.

    This gets the root of your fundamental fallacy here at KB. You conflate all things through the lens of your own limited set of experiences. You equate winning at gambling on basketball games with a heightened fundamental understanding of aspects of player development, talent evaluation, coaching and team-building that actually have nothing to do with gambling on the outcome of a particular game relative to the point spread. You think you “see” things in Phil’s hilariously bungled approach to the Knicks conundrum that every objective analyst would easily refute, yet in your own pitifully narrow mind, they are all wrong and you’re right because you a winning gambler. It’s so lame and disingenuous, so disgustingly self-serving. But you seem to revel in stroking yourself to the beat of your own cynical fantasies, whether about basketball, the media, politics, education, whatever.

  363. If you can just get your mind together
    Then come on across to me
    We’ll hold hands and then we’ll watch the sunrise
    From the bottom of the sea
    But first, are you experienced?
    Have you ever been experienced?
    Well, I have
    I know, I know you probably scream and cry
    That your little world won’t let you go
    But who in your measly little world
    Are you trying to prove that
    You’re made out of gold and, eh, can’t be sold
    So, are you experienced?
    Have you ever been experienced?
    Well, I have
    Let me prove you…
    Trumpets and violins I can hear in distance
    I think they’re calling our names
    Maybe now you can’t hear them, but you will
    If you just take hold of my hand
    Oh, but are you experienced?
    Have you ever been experienced?
    Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful…

    Written by Jimi Hendrix (1967)

  364. You won’t hear me expressing many strong views on subjects where I don’t have the results to demonstrate my knowledge about the subject.

    People snuffed out the handle change ruse (thank you for making me laugh out loud by trying to claim you didn’t intend to hide it, that was hilarious) because you stated extremely confidently that a moderate Democrat who wasn’t Biden would win 45 states, which would necessarily require a Democrat to win two of Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, or Idaho.

    You talk out of your ass all the time.

  365. who are some under the radar young guys we should go after this year instead of getting into a bidding war for justin holiday? i’m going to ignore guys who seem like they might actually get an over the radar bid like personal lovechild de’anthony melton and christian wood.

    I like your list and would like to emphasize if we got Melton we could stop talking about Frank forever because we’d have the version of Frank people pretend exists who is the same age. That alone is a reason to sign him.

    I’ve brought up Kris Dunn a few times and if his market doesn’t materialize ($5M AAV range) I’d like to target him. He would, um, not exactly address our shooting issues but he is truly a game changing defender who can make some things happen on offense in a pinch.

  366. thenoblefacehumper: People snuffed out the handle change ruse (thank you for making me laugh out loud by trying to claim you didn’t intend to hide it, that was hilarious) because you stated extremely confidently that a moderate Democrat who wasn’t Biden would win 45 states, which would necessarily require a Democrat to win two of Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, or Idaho.

    You talk out of your ass all the time.

    That was a fun thread

  367. Jesus had to resurrect himself to persuade the statfreaks nonbelievers of his time that he’s legit.
    Frank’s “crucifixion” will end pretty soon…
    Kyn the Kebabtist

  368. It’s an algorithmic machine that automatically generates analysis based on how you tweak the inputs. If you can properly adjust the knob for equine-based wisdom, tweak the dial for media bad and plug it into a power generator that runs on a blend of pure Primary Sources and undiluted Original Research, it can procedurally generate billions of analytical claims that cut through the lies of the Jedi and arrive at blessedly unbiased truth, straight from the horse’s mouth.

  369. i mostly like dunn and this year he finally realized that he wasn’t kyrie and ramped down his offensive usage a bit. unfortunately his 3s went from hit or miss to miss or miss. he’s duplicative with frank. knickerblogger should probably debate whether that’s a feature or a bug. i’m free 2021-23.

  370. That’s pretty good Mike. Solid lol.

    But Four Seasons TOTAL Landscaping, I am with JK47, I don’t think anything has made me laugh that hard in a long long time. I mean a press conference challenging the validity of the election held next to a dildo shop and across from a crematorium!

    I knew this current moment would be good and it has been, far more cathartic than I expected honestly, but seeing them show their abject stupidity in such high relief truly was the icing on the cake.

    I like Melton and think the idea of signing the actual Frank is a fantastic idea. It does seem thought that his market will be strong enough to dissuade us.

  371. But Four Seasons TOTAL Landscaping, I am with JK47, I don’t think anything has made me laugh that hard in a long long time. I mean a press conference challenging the validity of the election held next to a dildo shop and across from a crematorium!

    Would love to hear bobneptune’s take on this. I’m sure there’s some spin, if he’s even yet heard of it from Tucker or Hannity. But also, fuck bobneptune.

  372. While the Four Seasons schadenfreude is certainly delicious it in no way makes up for the fact that 71 million Americans voted for Trump. I will relish every humiliation Trump and his circle suffers but the country is still busted and Covid doesn’t appear to be going anywhere either.

  373. A minor bit of tea leaf reading from Berman, in an article that’s mostly Jerry Stackhouse talking up his guy Nesmith:

    A couple of mock drafts have the Knicks taking Vassell eighth, but sources said they would be surprised if the Knicks view Vassell that high. Both Nesmith and Vassell may be a likelier proposition in trade-down scenarios.

  374. geo:
    My dear guests! I am Mr. Owen, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Island!

    ….and then Herve Villechasomethingsomething…the little guy runs out and say “ze plane..ze plane” and points to one of those trump in a diaper blimps floating over head…

  375. So strat is back and he’s still trying to argue about his intellectual superiority? I guess some things truly never change!

    Very glad that the orange menace is finally gone, so some disgraces actually do end.

  376. Can the stat folks here tell me the statistical probability of a NY basketball blog having not one but TWO insufferably anecdotal professional horse racers? (…I feel like Sixerblogger and and Raptorblogger must have fewer)

  377. Donnie Walsh:
    Can the stat folks here tell me the statistical probability of a NY basketball blog having not one but TWO insufferably anecdotal professional horse racers? (…I feel like Sixerblogger andand Raptorblogger must have fewer)

    Do you want statistical probability or horse sense?

  378. Bruno!!!! Good to hear from you.

    This vaccine news sounds really amazing, especially if you are a conspiracy theorist. Stock market likes it a lot.

  379. Welcome back, Bruno!

    Now that the election is somewhat resolved, I really wish the draft would hurry up and get here. And also, I hope that Adam Silver announces the picks from the Four Seasons Total Landscaping parking lot.

  380. Also –

    Picks belonging to the Sacramento Kings (No. 12), Boston Celtics (No. 14), Wolves (No. 17), Dallas Mavericks (No. 18), Brooklyn Nets (No. 19) and Miami Heat (No. 20) are the most prevalent in trade conversations lately, per sources.

    These are all people trying to move their pick in order to get a ready to play veteran and/or to cut salary I hope.

    I think 12 is as far as I would want to go back — assuming okongwu and wiseman go in the top 10, it would guarantee us one of Kira, Killian, or Maxey (who I sort of like playing next to RJ).

    I continue to think Reggie Bullock is a reasonably good trade chip — expiring after this season, on a value contract, and is a player contenders might want. I could imagine something like Bullock for Taurean Prince plus 19?

  381. The realization that Ntilikina still sucks (and the Knicks too obviously) does give some consistency in these weird ass times, if anything.

    I’ve just been caring very little about basketball lately because the one basketball related thing I hate probably on the same level of James Dolan and the Knicks is to see the Lakers winning, so the bubble wasn’t particularly enjoyable.

    At least the election results have given us some really good news, because we’ll be going on our own fight against our clown in 2022 and if Trump won, we would have been completely screwed. So I guess baby steps towards the end of the nightmare but we might just get there.

  382. Does anyone know when trading and free agent signings will be permitted to begin? If training camps are to open on December 1, it seems a very short window to put together a team, particularly given the Knicks’ circumstances.

  383. ie. Killian Hayes and Devin Vassell fall out of the top 9

    On Macri’s podcast, Wasserman said that NBA front offices are much less in love with Vassell than NBA Draft Twitter has been, and Berman wrote yesterday that the Knicks would probably only take Vassell in a trade-down scenario. Opinions about Hayes are also all over the map. Patrick Williams is the only one of the guys Givony mentioned in the new ESPN Insider post whom I would be very wary of at 8, though that’s owing more to Kevin Knox PTSD than to Williams himself, probably.

  384. Aloha, Bruno!

    Hawaii resident Chad Ford has the Knicks taking two young men named Obadiah and Malachi in the first round, clearly in a bid to sell more tickets to the large, wealthy Amish population of New York.

    But seriously, I like CAA client Toppin for certain teams, but he kind of seems like a worst-case scenario for the Knicks. How bummed would you be?

  385. I want no part whatsoever of Toppin. None. He’s not exactly Randle 2.0, but the overlap in strengths and weaknesses is really high, and we’ve already seen how that works out with our current roster. I’d put more money on Okoro learning to shoot, or Hayes learning to go right, or even Patrick Williams turning out to be the player David Fizdale thought Kevin Knox was, than to take a guy with as low a ceiling and anachronistic game as Toppin. Hard freaking pass.

  386. Tyrell Terry, 3.5 GPA out of Stanford. He just moved up my leaderboard…

    Take THAT all-in-one stat, Strat.

  387. Ringer has a piece about how Terry is highest riser, now projected in the lottery after eating a lot or something.

    And Wiseman seems to be making a late charge to become consensus best player in the draft, even if the Wolves may not want to put him next to KAT. He also doesn’t want to go to Minnesota.

    Very volatile draft.

  388. Having Stanford’s Tyrell Terry and Duke’s RJ Barrett would make me feel a lot better about the overall basketball IQ of our team going forward. I still would take Tyrell Terry 8th overall and not look back.

  389. Yeah what Minny does will be very interesting. Wiseman and Ball are probably the top 2 prospects but they have KAT and Russell. I would think they might want to trade down. At least that is what I would do if I was them. They are probably more in a position to draft for fit than the other non GS lottery teams.

  390. I like Terry, but I would pump the brakes on him a little.

    The shooting numbers are great, but is he really a starting point guard? His assist/TO number is pretty bad. Overall, a guy like Tre Jones grades out better in every other area except shooting and has better advanced numbers (and is only 6 months older).

    I’m not advocating for Jones — just saying that Terry might only have a Seth Curry ceiling. I’d rather take Hali or Killian at 8.

  391. I know Anthony Edwards has some real ball skills, but I’ll be damned if part of his top-3 pedigree isn’t that he’s jacked as hell. Dude is going to challenge Bledsoe and Zion for biggest arms in the game.

  392. There might be a lot of relatively safe one or two-spot swaps in this draft. Something like Minny swapping with Charlotte at 3 for an extra pick or the Knicks swapping down with Washington at 9 for an extra asset if Okongwu is still on the board.

  393. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    I know Anthony Edwards has some real ball skills, but I’ll be damned if part of his top-3 pedigree isn’t that he’s jacked as hell. Dude is going to challenge Bledsoe and Zion for biggest arms in the game.

    My question is what makes for the better player: Edwards’ jacked arms or Okoro’s jacked shoulders?

  394. Bo Nateman:
    Does anyone know when trading and free agent signings will be permitted to begin? If training camps are to open on December 1, it seems a very short window to put together a team, particularly given the Knicks’ circumstances.

    From the articles I’ve read they don’t have a date set but trades are supposed to be allowed soon, before the draft which is next Wednesday.

    I don’t understand the Patrick Williams hype at all. His scoring and shooting numbers are very mediocre, he’s an ok rebounder, and he has nearly twice as many turnovers as assists. The only thing that stands out as positive are the 1.8 blocks and steals/40. Nobody was talking about this dude before or during the season then suddenly he’s a potential lottery pick. Feels like people grasping at straws for a high upside player in a really mediocre draft.

  395. Owen:
    Ringer has a piece about how Terry is highest riser, now projected in the lottery after eating a lot or something.

    And Wiseman seems to be making a late charge to become consensus best player in the draft, even if the Wolves may not want to put him next to KAT. He also doesn’t want to go to Minnesota.

    Very volatile draft.

    I’ve been on the Wiseman train from Day 1. If he had played a full NCAA season, he would have been the #1 pick for sure. Even though it was only 3 games, he was an utterly destructive force, putting up Zion-like numbers (34.2 pts/40, 18.6 rebs/40, .760TS%, 5.2Blocks/40…I don’t care who it was against, those are historic numbers and he was just getting started!) He looks a lot closer to being Joel Embiid or KAT than Mitchell Robinson or WCS.

  396. Yeah Z-Man, i was going to write that and forgot. Wiseman rising seems completely unsurprising. There had seemed to be a lot of smoke around him character wise so it makes sense that once people got comfortable with that side of him he would shoot up.

    I think I have said in the past that he looks like a better player than Ayton and I am not sure why anyone would pass on what seems a safe bet.

    Also, the first witness Rudy called at the FSTL event, turns out he was a convicted sex offender who served time in prison for exposing himself to a 7 and 11 year old on a playground. He has run for office in New Jersey repeatedly, post prison, and appears to be registered there still.

  397. There might be a lot of relatively safe one or two-spot swaps in this draft. Something like Minny swapping with Charlotte at 3 for an extra pick or the Knicks swapping down with Washington at 9 for an extra asset if Okongwu is still on the board.

    I actually wonder whether that’s why there are “leaks” about the Knicks being willing to move down – to scare WAS into giving up something small for a one-spot trade-back. Nothing of real substance has leaked out of the Rose FO ie. all the moves that have happened have sort of just happened with no warning, so maybe those media stories are just there to spook WAS. Getting #37 and #9 for #8 would be great for a no-harm trade back.

  398. Re: Tyrell Terry – I have not seen him much, but it sure seems more likely he will be Seth Curry than Steph Curry. As much as Steph “struggles” on defense, he’s much bigger than Tyrell.

  399. They’re the same height. Steph has 20 lbs on him even after Tyrell eating a lot this summer, but I’d expect him to fill out in the next year or two.

    I don’t like him at 8, though. Not unless everyone else I want is gone. Which seems unlikely.

  400. GS is an interesting spot too. I could see them just taking Wiseman and calling it a day.

    I could also see them trading back a few spots and picking Hali. He can back up Klay and Steph and play with either/both of them. Seems like the perfect GS player to take the baton from one of those dudes and he just gives them more passing, shooting and defense and is a smart player to boot. If they can move back, get him and pick up an additional draft pick in the future, I think that’s their wisest move. I understand the desire to get a vet to help them win now, but getting a player like Hali and another draft pick to help with the transition to the post splash brother’s years seems the better long term move even if it diminishes their title chances a bit. If Steph, Klay and Draymond are back in form this season, they are easily one of the title contenders again.

  401. if we all promise not to talk US politics for a few days – can we get a new thread por favor :)

    it’s draft/free agent/training/season about to begin time…

    the money is going to be real interesting this season with only 72 games…

    roster size should increase…

  402. From the Atlantic.
    America is loose as a goose

    It avoided becoming Belarus.

    But that sulking Caesar, POTUS—where’s he gone?

    Is he watching Fox News with a big frown on?

    We’ll seize the cycle. We’ll make allegations.

    Reverse these numerical humiliations.

    A major press conference, that’s the thing.

    At the Four Seasons … Total Landscaping.

    So the gods of bathos displayed us all

    on pickled asphalt, by a lumpy green wall.

    The morning light so skeptically slanted,

    the scene so tawdry and disenchanted …

    O flunkies, we’re at oblivion’s door.

    It’s right next to Fantasy Island Adult Bookstore.

    By the twang of the dildo, by the undertaker’s shoes,

    some shall win and some shall lose.

    The dark portal is reached. Bow down and enter.

    Across from the Delaware Valley Cremation Center

  403. okay, in all honesty, all that truly matters is that the frank saga continues…unless he’s traded for: russ/cp3/blake/the pf dude in cleveland/andrew wiggins/john wall – or best of all – mike conley…some kind of sign and trade for melo maybe…yeah, that’d be a real good thing, huh…

    hears to hoping frank leads us to our next playoff series win…

    frank may not be the lead/off guard/wing thing we wanted, but, he’s the lead/off guard/wing thing we need…

  404. I liked Terry as a potential steal at #27, maybe a little higher in the event of a trade up. A lot of the shine wears off to me at #8. A 6’1″-6’3″ non-point guard is simply going to be limited in multiple ways.

    However, if we drafted him it would be very hard to be too upset because 1) it would be nice to have a guy who can definitely shoot the ball and 2) I do consider him to have a pretty high ceiling. I would definitely hope it was the result of a trade down though. It sure seems like the Wizards are thirsting for Okongwu, so depending on how strong the intel is it would make a lot of sense to take him and extract at least #37 from them.

  405. I know we need pg and shooters badly but If we’re lucky enough to find another D-juggernaut like Frank at #8 of this draft we’re probably on the way to build a Defensive Mecca under Thibs.

  406. thenoblefacehumper: I liked Terry as a potential steal at #27, maybe a little higher in the event of a trade up. A lot of the shine wears off to me at #8. A 6’1?-6’3? non-point guard is simply going to be limited in multiple ways.

    I guess that’s the question with him….do you see him as a pure PG or more of a combo guard? He’s nowhere near the natural passer of, say, Trae or CP3, and you’d have to place a lot of faith in his IQ, basketball and otherwise.

  407. terry is an interesting guy but there’s not enough there in terms of pg skills to justify taking him in the lottery… not when there are guys with proven ball skills….

    at his best…. terry could be a bench scorer if he doesn’t develop pg skills…. that’s just not enough…. he’s a pretty talented shooter tho…

  408. Berman talking up Isaiah Stewart as a strong contender for the 27th pick. Like the energy and defense, but seems like another guy who’d be spelling Mitch rather than playing alongside him. Thoughts?

  409. As a rule, quasi-lurkers cannot have avatars. You’re a regular. Thanks for coming back.

  410. I thought was a rule but my avatar follows me to a lot of other sites I didn’t expect.

    More glory for Mitch though, so I am cool with it.

  411. Givony said on the Lowe Post that Rose loves Toppin and spent a lot of time making sure he was recruited to CAA. It wouldn’t be the worst pick in the world because I think Toppin’s got a pretty high floor, but like you said it would be pretty unexciting. Thankfully I don’t think we have to worry about it, seems like he’s a lock to go higher.

  412. Yeah I am not feeling the Obi Toppin pick at all for us.
    Givony laid out some pretty convincing evidence as to why it’s the wrong pick, even if he didn’t necessarily come out and say that. A) he is big wing size, not even PF size much less C size — and given his poor lateral movement, you’d have to seriously hide him. B) he said that he’s actually got pretty good defensive IQ, which to me means he’s not even a guy who doesn’t know exactly what to do — he KNOWS what to do but is just totally incapable. I’d much rather have a guy who you can coach up than the guy who just can’t do it. I guess may be you could play him at the 4 next to Mitch and hope Mitch can erase all his defensive mistakes, but I dunno. Seems like a guy you might not be able to craft a great defense around. He’s not as big or explosive as Amare – prob ceiling is someone like John Collins who is really good numbers-wise but is a prominent part of why Atlanta’s defense is so bad.

  413. The Ringer has a new story allegedly singing Patrick Williams’ praises, at one point comparing him to Marvin Williams (no relation):

    There’s no guarantee that Patrick will come any closer than Marvin to fulfilling his massive upside. He doesn’t have one standout skill at the moment. He’s a good athlete, but not a five-position defender who can stay in front of elite point guards. He’s a good shooter, but not a great one. And while he has some dribbling and passing chops, he can’t run an NBA offense at this stage of his career. The team that drafts him has to hope that there’s a compounding effect that comes from his potential to get better in so many areas.

    This quote kind of sums it up to me, especially since Williams isn’t even working out for teams, meaning they have incredibly limited data on him:

    “I think everyone in the NBA wants [Williams] to be good because we all need players like him,” said one NBA scouting director. “You want to take a chance on someone who at least has a chance to be valuable, especially in a draft like this. But he still has to prove that he’s actually good.”

    Jack of several trades, master of none sounds an awful lot like Kevin Knox, though Williams seems to have both a higher floor and ceiling than our resident giraffe on roller skates.

  414. Just read that Williams piece. It sounds like he’s at least a much more promising defender than Knox, and presumably a better passer. He sounds a little like Marcus Morris but again, hopefully, better D. But I do wonder how much different he is than a guy like Stewart in the long run, who can maybe be had at #27. I guess Stewart can’t defend in space the way Williams can.

    But I like the idea of Stewart at 27 because his numbers were good and we haven’t had a real enforcer type since… Mason? It really depends on if he’s a good enough shooter.

  415. Here are my all things considered choices for the draft, assuming no trades:

    #8: Killian
    #27: Jahmi’us Ramsey (legit shooter with great catch and shoot numbers, athlete at SG, quite young, good transition scorer, lots of scoring potential in general, averageish defender, poorish shot selection, bad at the rim despite his considerable bounce, mediocre passing)
    # 38: Xavier Tillman–just take him. He’s a lottery level player. If he’s not there, take Paul Reed.

    I’ve really come around to Jahmi’us. He’s got a lot of work to do but I think he would be worth a pick higher than 27, and he fills a real need for our team (and gives the Knicks a reason to slot RJ in at SF) despite the JR/Hardaway vibes I occasionally get from him when looking at his tape.

  416. The guys I like at 8 (or higher) are Hayes, Hali, and Okongwu, and to a lesser extent, Toppin and Vassell. I’m no longer sold on Ball/Edwards and Wiseman just doesn’t make sense with Mitch. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any point in moving up or down. 8 is kind of a good spot it seems.

  417. ess-dog:
    The guys I like at 8 (or higher) are Hayes, Hali, and Okongwu, and to a lesser extent, Toppin and Vassell. I’m no longer sold on Ball/Edwards and Wiseman just doesn’t make sense with Mitch. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any point in moving up or down. 8 is kind of a good spot it seems.

    The reason to move down is obvious. This draft in particular is a crapshoot so giving yourself more chances to hit, or getting a chance to hit in a future more stable draft, is a better plan then taking one shot. If you’re throwing darts at a board hoping to hit then getting more darts is the way to go.

  418. Alan:
    The Ringer has a new story allegedly singing Patrick Williams’ praises, at one point comparing him to Marvin Williams (no relation):

    This quote kind of sums it up to me, especially since Williams isn’t even working out for teams, meaning they have incredibly limited data on him:

    Jack of several trades, master of none sounds an awful lot like Kevin Knox, though Williams seems to have both a higher floor and ceiling than our resident giraffe on roller skates.

    Lol at allegedly. Yeah, that article isn’t doing him any favors. Even the highlight videos aren’t great (though they’re a lot better than Knox’s were). One of the ones in the article is him as the ball handler in P&R and it’s not bad because he’s hitting a bunch of shots. But they’re all long range 2s, he isn’t able to get by any defender guarding him to get to the rim for an easier shot.

    Honestly, he’s a guy that I hate in this draft. Maybe if he were available when we pick at 27 then I’d be ok with taking a chance on him but honestly I’d rather use a 2nd on him. I’ll be pretty pissed if we take him at 8.

  419. I’d rather keep the #8 pick and then take on a contract to pick up another first round pick somewhere. While it might be true that the draft is not top heavy, you’re still giving yourself a better shot at getting a legit player at #8 than you are with a trade down. And I think the same thing could be accomplished by taking on a bad contract somewhere and adding another pick that way.

    My ideal scenario is to pick # 8, take on a contract to get another pick in the top #20 and then use the clips pick and second rounder to move up from 27. Take 3 players in the top 20 somehow.

  420. Yeah, while Givony and others talk about a clear top 9(*) or so, it doesn’t feel like there’s that big a difference between Hali/Hayes and someone like Lewis or Terry who we could take in the early-mid teens. So unless Walt Perrin and the scouts feel like the demarcation is a lot stronger than it looks to our untrained eyes, trade down and get more shots.

    (*) I’m sure it will turn out that the best player in the draft is whoever is taken 7th, because Knicks gonna Knick, but for the moment it does feel refreshing that the consensus is that we are one or two picks within the good tier, rather than our usual role of being one or two outside it.

  421. Hollinger’s new mock draft speculates that the Pistons may have already made a promise to take Patrick Williams at 7. With Hayes, Lewis, Okoro, and Okongwu all on the board at 8, he has us taking… Tyrese Maxey, basically because we now have so many links to Kentucky. (And also because no Hollinger column is complete without him taking shots at New York. They’ve been deserved in the past. We still have no idea if they are under the Rose regime.)

    Oh, and he has us taking Malachi Flynn at 27.

  422. Hayes has much better overall stats than Kira, is younger, and played in a tougher league. He’s also statistically better than Terry and nearly a full year younger. Aside from the turnovers, which he seems to have corrected somewhat, and his three-point shooting, Hayes is just a better overall prospect. If he’s there at 8, you take him. At a year older than Hayes, I can see the argument against Haliburton, but I still like him better than those other guys.

    I agree that there is a drop off after the 8 or 9 top guys, and the two top guys (Ball, Edwards) are probably vastly overrated, but they guys beneath that top 8 or so are even bigger gambles. In this draft, I’d rather just grab a guy that will for sure be a 3rd to 5th best starter than try for a guy that has a 9% chance of being a star, if everything breaks right.

  423. Again, Hollinger hates the Knicks and always assumes they will do the dumbest thing possible. But he also has good reason to think that way, given almost everything the team has done over the last two decades. If you read the blurb, it sounds more like completely speculation that we will automatically take either a CAA player (Vassell) because of Rose or a Kentucky player because of Wes and Payne. Where many of his other blurbs are framed as “I’m hearing this.”

    Say this for Rose: he has kept his cards very close to the vest. Givony and Schmitz telling Zach Lowe that Rose would be ecstatic if Toppin (a former Rose client) dropped to 8 is basically the first rumor we've heard all offseason that could be coming from inside the front office. (Though it could also be the same type of speculation that Hollinger is doing. And even Hollinger acknowledges that he has heard Hayes' name linked to the Knicks a lot.)

  424. Lewis or Terry are significantly worse than Haliburton (and probably Hayes) statistically. Lewis and Terry were both good but not exceptional college players who are being mocked high because of their upside. Lewis is allegedly very fast and he’s young, Terry grew during the pandemic so he’s going to be better than he was in college. I like Terry-he can really shoot 3s-but he seems to be a bit overhyped right now. Lewis seems like a backup.

  425. I can’t believe how close we are to the draft, free agency, and even the new season already. What a crazy year.

    This is what I’ve been waiting for,

    I was no a fan of hiring Rose because I think a good management team is made up of brilliant basketball minds combined with brilliant GM level cap and deal making skills. That’s basically why Mills/Perry were my worst nightmare from hell. I don’t see either of those qualities in Rose either. So I’ve been just waiting for the moment I would start ranting about how bad he is. Not that he’s done much basketball wise yet, but I have to concede I am enthusiastic or at least satisfied with all the coaching and executive moves so far except retaining Perry. I’m hoping that’s just for one year. But this is the big test. Can they identify and land any players with star potential in the draft, via trade, via using draft assets, or via free agency that fit into the pieces we already have and on a reasonable timetable given where we are now. That’s how we’ll move forward towards landing a barracuda. I’m open to players even in their late 20s, but we don’t need any players as old as CP3 . CP3 is not going to attract a barracuda at his age even if he makes us better now. We also don’t need any more young role platers. We should be using our assets to go big game hunting in either the draft or free agency. We need potential all stars.

  426. I can’t wait for the draft.

    I won’t make any judgements on the individual picks we make in the draft. I hate when people do that. Its ok to have your preferences, obviously, and sometimes the haters turn out to be right (Knox, and to some degree Frank though I still stan for him)…but in general I think every rookie should be given a shot to prove the haters wrong and should be given our support as fans until they prove to be hopeless.

    What I will be looking for with Rose with the draft and free agency is his creativity and ability to think long term. Is he picking up a bad contract to get another first round pick. Is he using cash considerations and the second rounder and/or clips pick to move up. Is he trading # 8 down with, say, Boston, to pick up more picks.

    Is he making smart free agent signings on young players (I would be down with Christian Wood at the right price and possibly FVV as well if the price isn’t too much). Is he getting good, short term stop gap veterans at a good price…guys that can potentially be flipped later and who fill a specific short term need of the team without sacrificing too much PT from the young players.

    Or is he including picks and players and # 8 to move up and grab LaMelo. Is he trading future firsts and the youth we have for CP3. Is he signing potentially bad free agents like Melo for some short term financial gain or to entice low intelligence fans.

    If he does the first scenario, then I’ll trust whatever picks he makes. If he does the latte scenario, then we know its business as usual.

  427. #27: Jahmi’us Ramsey

    Ramsey definitely wouldn’t be a bad pick, but I’m not sure what he gives you that you couldn’t get from Mason Jones as a UDFA/bought 2nd rounder. Agree that you count your blessings with Tillman/Reed at #38.

    My absolutely ideal draft is Hayes at #8 and swinging a trade up for Poku, but assuming we stay at 8/27/38 as of now I think mine would be:

    8: Hayes

    27: Dotson (would be happy with Stewart/Bane/Josh Green)

    38: Reed (Would be happy with Tillman/Ramsey/Riller)

    Try to nab Mason Jones as a UDFA.

  428. I won’t make any judgements on the individual picks we make in the draft. I hate when people do that. Its ok to have your preferences, obviously, and sometimes the haters turn out to be right (Knox, and to some degree Frank though I still stan for him)

    You kinda countered your own argument dude. The draft is definitely a crapshoot in many ways, but there is helpful information that exists on most of these guys and we’d be stupid not to use it. I mean, in the case of both Frank and Knox, we were stupid not to use it.

    What you’re outlining here is basically just deference to the authority of the New York Knicks. That’s a no from me!

  429. That’s what you decided to focus on with my post? That wasn’t really the main point of my post.

    The other day I made a comment on P & T where I said we should pick up as much draft capital as possible because even our young players like Mitch, Frank, etc….aren’t sure things. And someone responded with a super long take down of my post about how if Frank wasn’t a sure thing then RJ definitely wasn’t and all I could think was “that really wasn’t the point of my post.”

  430. Also, I wasn’t “making an argument.” Not every post is an argument.

    I was simply stating how I will see the future of the org based on the possibly paths they will take.

    I think I made it pretty clear how I would and how I wouldn’t defer to their authority. If they’re creative on draft night, pick up extra picks somehow and don’t make win now trades or free agent signings, then I’m willing to give them a chance with whatever picks they make because it will show me their thinking long term.

    If they trade away youth and picks for CP3 and pick up Melo or trade picks for Oladipo or whatever, then I’ll be far harsher in my judgement of whatever picks they do make.

  431. Man, looking at the Knicks roster again, and it is so, so bleak…

    RJ was really horrible last year. I know he’s only 20, but, damn. Knox is 21 and even worse. Frank at least plays good defense.

    And that’s it.

    We should probably bring Payton back because, even in a down year for him, he was one of our best players. I’m sure they’re also planning on bringing Randle back, even though he’s a terrible fit at PF.

    They absolutely have to nail these draft picks and get some value back for DSJ, Knox, and hopefully Randle. I can see why they might want Toppin: Without Randle, they would have ZERO scoring.

    And for Chrissake, KEEP MITCH.

  432. has anyone seen what the season schedule will look like?
    I had heard some rumors about playing mostly within division. If we’re really playing most of our games against the Atlantic, we will get slaughtered.
    In that sense it may not matter if we want to look more “respectable” by trading for CP3.

    (meanwhile, I have to assume if we trade for CP3 that we will have a gentleman’s agreement to resign him at something like 3 for $75MM after next season so he declines the player option). That wouldn’t be the absolute worst thing in the world as it would free up some cap space for next summer, and CP3 would undeniably increase the trade value of all our young players. And if we’re playing PHI/TOR/BKN/BOS for 40 of the 72 games, we’ll basically be guaranteed a really good pick regardless of CP3 being there or not.

  433. Frank:
    has anyone seen what the season schedule will look like?
    I had heard some rumors about playing mostly within division.If we’re really playing most of our games against the Atlantic, we will get slaughtered.
    In that sense it may not matter if we want to look more “respectable” by trading for CP3.

    I haven’t heard anything about a lot of intradivision games but I did read that they’re planning on it being like baseball where teams play a series against another team in order to reduce the amount of travel.

  434. The one thing I am NOT going to do this time is get too upset over anyone they draft like I did when they skipped over Mikal Bridges and took Kevin Knox. I still think that was the 2nd nail in the coffin of what could have been a sensible rebuild (with the first nail being using our 20 million of cap space on Hardaway and Baker). But Knox is a kid that barely reached puberty when we took him. I’m patient. He may still turn out to be a good player. Since then it has been more and more nails, but I’m fine with starting over from here with RJ, Robinson, cap space, a couple of good role players and some excess picks. We lost a few years, gave away KP for trash, but good management can turn this quickly. Let’s just hope these guys understand basketball and know how to make deals.

  435. the worst possible outcomes:

    1. trade mitch the 8 and a dallas pick for a top 3 pick
    2. trade the 8 knox or frank and the 27 or a dallas pick to take obi at 4 or 5
    3. trade the 8 as part of getting cp3
    4. trade the 27 for blake griffin / tobias harris
    5. jared kushner

  436. my expectations for the upcoming season is we continue to slowly creep towards normalcy in terms of how our organization performs…hopefully we can avoid that 20 to 30 win total area…

    bringing on rose, who has no front office experience, to run the organization was a bit odd – but, not totally unique…hiring thibs was a very okay move…

    i don’t anticipate any major blunders on draft day – what really interests me though is what we do in free agency…

    who knows how many of our rookies will actually be on our roster, but – there’s a good chance, similar to last year where we needed to bring in six or seven free agents, we’re going to need to bring in a bunch of new players again this year…

    this might be a good time to sign some players to longer than one and one deals…

  437. i just might be arguing in my spare time

    that’s funny…dang al, you just may be the goat of tv…seriously, i bet you got references stored away to damn near every situation a human may encounter journeying through life…

    maybe there are some health benefits towards a bout of vigorous discourse…yo strat – where you at?

    i can’t remember who it was – but, one of you all sent me on a mission to review all the SNL celebrity jeopardy clips on youtube…i enjoyed the heck out of that…

    at that end of the day – time passes, sometimes it’s best to do so engaged with others…

    i appreciate you all :)

  438. It’s taking, like, 10 seconds to scroll to the bottom of the thread on desktop. Mobile users RIP. New thread, plz?

  439. i’ve given up on simply refreshing the page, i just re-load knickerblogger now and scroll down to latest comments…otherwise, my game controller weary thumbs start to ache…

    on a positive note – draft night is like only a week away…

    I appreciates that…

    again, I think our best chance of moving forward quickly (why wait to develop all these youngsters if we got money) is through free agency and trades…

Leave a Reply