Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, June 19, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.06.14)

  • [NYPost] Damyean Dotson: Things are already changing with the Knicks
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:40:44 AM)

    Second-year Knicks shooting guard Damyean Dotson already sees a changing culture under new head coach David Fizdale after less than two months. Exactly a year ago, Dotson staged his pre-draft workout for the Knicks in Tarrytown before president Phil Jackson, coach Jeff Hornacek and assistant Kurt Rambis. None of those guys are around anymore. And…

  • [NYDN] American student returning home after she was suddenly paralyzed during trip to Spain
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:40:00 AM)

    A University of Arizona college student will be able to be flown home from a trip to Spain after suddenly becoming paralyzed during a trip to Spain.

    Kara Dunn, a 20-year-old physiology student, woke up and couldn’t move just days after arriving in the country earlier this month, according to her…

  • [NYDN] Lawmaker says Russian women shouldn’t have sex with foreigners of different races
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:30:00 AM)

    A Russian lawmaker has spoken out against her countrywomen from having sex with foreigners visiting from around the globe for the World Cup, particularly those of different races.

    Tamara Pletnyova, a 70-year-old Communist deputy on a committee for families, women and children, told radio station…

  • [NYDN] NYCHA’s other problem: Security is still spotty across public housing developments
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    The first duty of any property owner and manager is to provide tenants and their visitors with adequate security. Other needs are also essential, but security and safety are required by law and common practice. A few years ago, conducting a security survey of selected NYCHA properties, I learned…

  • [NYDN] Go after the vultures circling around Puerto Rico
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    Last weekend we celebrated the people of Puerto Rico, their culture and their enormous contributions to our country. This year we also reflect on the ongoing crisis facing Puerto Rico in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria. Recent reports estimate that the death toll post-Maria could potentially be…

  • [NYDN] Gov. Cuomo, give driver’s licenses to undocumented New Yorkers now
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    Families throughout New York and across America have been horrified by the inhumane detention of Pablo Villavicencio, who was apprehended by ICE officials when he delivered a pizza to the Fort Hamilton Army base in Brooklyn last week.

    Villavicencio’s story is a clear example of how President Trump’s…

  • [NYDN] Schooling Ms. Nixon: Her education reform plan demands more and more and more money
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    As of 2016, public schools across New York State spent $22,366 per pupil, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That figure, some 13% higher than it was three years earlier, is about double the national average.

    And while the cash isn’t equitably distributed, which is one of Albany’s enduring shames,…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on Flag Day, North Korea and tests
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    South Farmingdale, L.I.: Today is Flag Day. The American flag is our most widely viewed symbol of our country, the United States of America and everything it stands for: liberty, freedom, prosperity and protection for us all. Flag Day is perfectly situated between Memorial Day and July 4th. Every…

  • [NYDN] Anthony Bourdain reportedly cremated in France, less than a week after suicide
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:45:00 PM)

    Celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain’s body was cremated Wednesday and his ashes will be flown home Friday, according to People.

    Bourdain’s mother, Gladys, previously told the Daily News that his estranged wife, Ottavia Busia Bourdain, is in charge of the arrangements. According to the State Department,…

  • [NYDN] Michael Avenatti and Anthony Scaramucci square off on ‘The Late Show’
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:30:00 PM)

    Anthony Scaramucci and Michael Avenatti, on the same set, still can’t find common ground.

    In matching blue suits, the President’s former press secretary and one of his loudest adversaries called a temporary ceasefire on “The Late Show” Wednesday night, refereed by host Stephen Colbert.

    Through…

  • [NYDN] Cops threaten man with Taser after couple questions Waffle House orange juice bill
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:30:00 PM)

    A Florida couple questioned their bill and ended up staring down a Taser once law enforcement arrived at yet another disturbing incident at a Waffle House location.

    The couple placed a to-go order at the Waffle House in Fort Walton Beach, Fla., but upon getting their bill, they disagreed with some…

  • [NYDN] Sarah Huckabee Sanders disputes report that she is planning White House departure
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:25:00 PM)

    White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders panned a report Wednesday that she told pals about her plans to leave her job within six months.

    Sanders and her deputy, Raj Shah, were reportedly mulling their departures from a White House reeling from high turnover, according to a CBS News report

  • [NYDN] Struggling Gary Sanchez to return to Yankees lineup Thursday after two-game absence
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    Gary Sanchez’s break lasted a total of two games. After sitting out the Yankees’ 5-4 loss Wednesday to the Nationals, Aaron Boone said the struggling catcher will return to the lineup for Thursday’s series opener against the Rays.

    Sanchez is hitting .190 this season and is 4-for-53 over his last…

  • [NYDN] President Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen is looking for new lawyers in FBI probe
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer is looking for a new legal team.

    The law firm representing Michael Cohen — whose home, office and hotel room were raided by the FBI in April — will not be working for the fixer going forward, ABC News first reported Wednesday.

    Cohen, who has yet to be…

  • [NYDN] Secretary of State Pompeo sees North Korea on the way to nuclear disarmament before the end of President Trump’s first term
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    President Trump declared on Wednesday there was “no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea” — a dubious claim later tempered by his top diplomat.

    Secretary of State Pompeo, in Seoul to debrief South Korean officials on Trump’s summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, noted “there’s a lot…

  • [NYDN] Unassigned teachers cost city $136 million: report
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    A controversial cadre of unassigned public school teachers costs the city $136 million a year and needs an overhaul from Mayor de Blasio, a new a government watchdog report says.

    The city’s so-called Absent Teacher Reserve, which de Blasio has vowed to fix for years, topped out at 1,202 employees…

  • [NYDN] Rudy Giuliani’s son lost West Wing access after President Trump attempted to promote him
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    At least one Giuliani has lost his West Wing access.

    Andrew, the son of the former mayor, was hired by President Trump to work in the Office of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs last year.

    Trump asked his staff to promote the 33-year-old, but White House chief of staff John Kelly did…

  • [NYDN] ‘I know mom is dead,’ says 6-year-old boy after car mows down mother in front of him on Brooklyn sidewalk
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:35:00 PM)

    Hours after he watched his mom killed in a Brooklyn car crash, 6-year-old Jayvon Williams showed a sad resolve, telling his grandma that he wants to live with her now.

    “He told me, ‘I want to go to your house, because I know mom is dead,’ ” Claudette Edwards, 63, recalled Wednesday, at a vigil…

  • [NYDN] Trump lauds Kim Jong Un as smart ‘tough guy’ when confronted about North Korean executions
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:10:00 PM)

    Vladimir Putin, Rodrigo Duterte and Kim Jong Un have the following in common: governments accused of human rights violations and President Trump’s respect.

    Trump brushed off questions from Fox News anchor Bret Baier about North Korea’s history of deadly violence with Kim at the helm and praised…

  • [NYDN] Mets push back Steven Matz’s scheduled Thursday start due to blister on finger
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    The Mets pushed back Steven Matz’s scheduled start late Wednesday night.

    A team source said Matz is dealing with a blister on his middle finger on his pitching hand.

    The Long Island lefty was originally scheduled to start Thursday in Arizona. Instead Jason Vargas, the lefty scheduled for Sunday,…

  • [NYDN] EXCLUSIVE: Rudy Giuliani confirms he’s dating Republican fund-raiser Jennifer LeBlanc
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:35:00 PM)

    It didn’t take long for Rudy Giuliani to start playing the field after divorce papers were filed.

    The 74-year-old former mayor confirmed to the Daily News Wednesday he has been romancing political fund-raiser Jennifer LeBlanc, 56, for the past three weeks.

    “We are dating, however not that advanced…

  • [NYDN] Nationals’ rookie Juan Soto outshines Baby Bombers as Yankees fall, 5-4
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:30:00 PM)

    Another rising star took over at Yankee Stadium on Wednesday night – only he didn’t play for the home team.

    Juan Soto, the Nationals’ 19-year-old rookie sensation, belted a pair of homers – including a 436-foot solo shot off Chasen Shreve in the seventh inning that was the difference in Washington’s…

  • [NYDN] Gleyber Torres continues to bat ninth for Yankees despite excellent offensive production
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:25:00 PM)

    Wednesday marked Gleyber Torres’ 43rd start as a major-leaguer and the 35th time he was slotted in the No. 9 spot in the Yankees’ batting order.

    The 21-year-old rookie continues to hit last despite being one of the team’s most impactful hitters since he made his big-league debut on April 22, but…

  • [NYDN] Federal appeals panel decides sound cannons used to quell protests can be considered excessive force
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:15:00 PM)

    A federal appeals panel ruled Wednesday that cops’ use of noise cannons against peaceful protesters can be considered excessive force.

    Three judges from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals issued their decision in Manhattan Federal Court case over the use of sound cannons at a December 2014 protest.

  • [NYDN] Ex-Yankee pitcher Kevin Brown reportedly thwarts mailbox theft by hiding in yard and holding alleged thieves at gunpoint
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 6:55:00 PM)

    Talk about a curveball.

    Former Yankees pitcher Kevin Brown apprehended alleged local mailbox thieves near his Macon, Ga., residence, according to the Miami Herald.

    Following reports of stolen mail in the area, Brown hid in a neighbor’s yard and waited to catch the alleged criminals in the act….

  • [NYDN] Real estate broker swipes $8.5M from elderly building owner in less than a year, prosecutors say
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 6:55:00 PM)

    He put the broke in broker.

    A thieving real estate broker scored $8.5 million from a 91-year-old building owner through a mortgage loan scam, prosecutors said Wednesday.

    Lyndon Chin, 54, allegedly used information belonging to his elderly client — the owner of “several” buildings in lower Manhattan…

  • [SNY Knicks] Kyrie Irving not signing long-term with Celtics could put Knicks in play
    (Wednesday, June 13, 2018 9:40:18 AM)

    Maybe seeing All-Star PG Kyrie Irving in a Knicks uniform isn’t fantasy after all.

  • 94 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.14)

    1. Frank

      Couple thoughts from yesterday’s thread:

      1) I think there is absolutely zero chance that KP has any significant anemia that the Knicks haven’t found/addressed yet. I mean, the kid had a history of it, and it’s not like it’s hard to diagnose. Players get blood draws as part of the standard physical, and if there were a problem, it would be addressed.

      2) I think the “name a player 7’3″+ that hasn’t been constantly injured” is a real concern. If you look at B-R, there have only been 52 players in NBA history 7’2″+, and of those, only 12 played 10+ seasons. Of those, only 3 played 10 more more seasons of 2000+ minutes (which is really not that many minutes) –> Kareem, Mutombo, and Artis Gilmore. I don’t know that there is a way to predict whether KP will be in that group, or whether nutrition / kinesiology has gotten to the point where we can actually alter that (disclaimer that some of those 52 players only made the NBA because they were 7’2″+ and not because they were actually good players — ie. you would never expect them to last 10 seasons).

      3) Re: the reason for KP’s drop-off in mid-season. One possible line of demarcation is when he left the game on 12/14/17 after feeling something “pop” in his left knee. He ended up missing 2 games after that, then came back and shot 0-11 his first game back. Pre-12/14 he had a TS of 57.2 and averaged 1.21 PPP. For the month after that he had a TS of 46.9 and a PPP of 0.99. Yes Jowles, it’s arbitrary for me to a choose a month after that, but the idea is that he left a game with a leg injury and basically sucked for some period of time after that. In retrospect he may very well have had a structural problem in that knee –> it was the same knee that had the ACL tear in February. Somehow the Knicks never got an MRI despite the “pop” sensation (initial report was that he did have one but on 12/18 reporting said no MRI was done). Could he have sustained a partial tear in Dec?

    2. Frank

      Meanwhile, sounds like Michael Porter has some sort of promise, so goodbye to that possibility.

      As of now my ranking for guys that might be available at #9-

      1) Trae Young
      2) Mikal Bridges
      3) Miles Bridges
      4) Wendell Carter

      Nate Duncan’s podcast clarified my concern about Carter — Carter is probably a better player than at least the Brothers Bridges, but the marginal value of him to the Knicks compared to guys that could be drafted later on or signed for relatively cheap in FA is less than an elite shot-creator / shooter in Trae Young and versatile 2-way wings like Mikal/Miles. Really is too bad that he plays the same position as KP.

    3. chrisk06811

      The story about Fiz taking Frank, Mudiay and Dotson to Boston for a playoff game is pretty cool, actually. Can’t see Rambis doing that

    4. kevin5318

      KP’s fragility makes me want Carter even more. What if he looks great( for a rookie) and KP comes back and looks like shit for 2-3 months coming off the surgery.

      Could hopefully give us leverage in contract negotiatons.

    5. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Carter looking great wouldn’t give us leverage in contract negotiations. Other teams telling Janis that they want KP is all that matters. It’s about KP’s options, not the Knicks’.

    6. Frank

      a little follow-up on this:

      3) Re: the reason for KP’s drop-off in mid-season. One possible line of demarcation is when he left the game on 12/14/17 after feeling something “pop” in his left knee. He ended up missing 2 games after that, then came back and shot 0-11 his first game back. Pre-12/14 he had a TS of 57.2 and averaged 1.21 PPP. For the month after that he had a TS of 46.9 and a PPP of 0.99. Yes Jowles, it’s arbitrary for me to a choose a month after that, but the idea is that he left a game with a leg injury and basically sucked for some period of time after that. In retrospect he may very well have had a structural problem in that knee –> it was the same knee that had the ACL tear in February. Somehow the Knicks never got an MRI despite the “pop” sensation (initial report was that he did have one but on 12/18 reporting said no MRI was done). Could he have sustained a partial tear in Dec?

      I put that question out to Ian Begley and @Profootballdoc — no reply from Dr. Chao yet but Begley acknowledged that it was a good question. If he had (or even may have had) a partial ACL tear in his knee and they didn’t get an MRI, I would call that an inexcusable blunder by the medical team concerning the team’s clear franchise player — one that really should be called out even what is now 6+ months later. I mean, they were concerned enough to have him sit out 2 games, but didn’t get an MRI and then proceeded to play him 36+ min for 10 out of the next 13 games. Notably, it was the same left knee that had him sit out the Warriors game in mid-January.

      Look at this quote from December after he came out of the game:

      “I felt my knee kind of buckle a little bit,” he said. “I felt a little pain. It’s more just being cautious. I had a sharp pain.”

      “I felt the pain and I kept playing,’’ he said. “I kept playing and then I came out in the timeout and I felt something happen to my knee, so I asked for some help and I went back into the game. I kept playing but I just wasn’t feeling right. It was not stable.

      “Maybe it was also mental — like you know something happened. I tried to play and I didn’t feel comfortable jumping up with the left leg.”

      He only played in 7 games after sitting out the GS game before the knee gave out.

    7. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Yeah, I’ve always assumed it was the same knee, and that the earlier “buckling” was an indicator of the injury to come. I also assumed the Knicks got an MRI and checked it out thoroughly, and that the only reason he kept playing is that they thought there was nothing to do about it except hope for the best. But, Knicks.

    8. Hubert

      Chris Bosh shot 302 3’s in his first ten years, then shot 608 in his last three years under Fizdale’s tutelage.

      Here’s a perfect example of ascribing causation via homerism:

      In Chris Bosh’s first season, 18.7% of all NBA FGs were three-point attempts. In his final season, it was 28.5%, with pace increasing by 5 possessions per 48 minutes.

      Don’t worry, everyone — Fizdale is here to save the day!

      You make half a good point, but you’re ultimately arguing against your original point (i.e. that coaches can’t optimize shot selection).

      Yes, part of that increase is attributable to a league-wide increase in 3PAs. But how do you think that developed? You think NBA players collectively woke up and decided (individually, *and* coincidentally+simultaneously along with all the other players in the NBA) that we’re just going to start taking more threes year after year?

      It happened because of coaching, Jowles. Front offices got smarter and they hired coaches to work with players on optimizing their shot selection.

      The exception to this, of course, was the Knicks. We went back in time, hired Phil Jackson, installed a triangle, and instilled a completely inefficient offensive system that focused on everything the NBA moved away from.

      So given that the league-wide increase you cite largely evaded our entire organization during Porzingis’ three years here, why isn’t reasonable to expect a coach who modernized two big men in his previous stints to have a similar impact on Porzingis’ shot selection?

    9. mase

      You guys are convincing me we should consider moving on from KP. if he is going to spend half his career injured on a max contract let’s try to move up in the draft and get some assets. Carter and a wing in the lottery plus a mid first plus our second and I think we have a better future moving forward.
      Keeping KP Is too risky and half of you don’t think he’s a max player to begin with. Surely someone will give us a lottery pick for him and a late first. As much as we love him he is too tall and the probability he has a career ending injury is too great.

    10. chrisk06811

      we won’t get value if we trade for KP now. Who is going to pay fair value for a player who might miss a year, and then stands to get paid after that, with all the risk of if/when he fully recovers being on the new team? Any teams fans would go apeshit over a deal like that unless they either dumped salary or gave up very little.

      Right now, KP is worth either a first in the teens, or our pick plus KP to move up a few slots. who would trade more than that? If they love him so much (and anticipate they will max him), why not just wait until he’s back and sign him to a max sheet?

    11. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Re: the reason for KP’s drop-off in mid-season. One possible line of demarcation is when he left the game on 12/14/17 after feeling something “pop” in his left knee. He ended up missing 2 games after that, then came back and shot 0-11 his first game back. Pre-12/14 he had a TS of 57.2 and averaged 1.21 PPP. For the month after that he had a TS of 46.9 and a PPP of 0.99. Yes Jowles, it’s arbitrary for me to a choose a month after that, but the idea is that he left a game with a leg injury and basically sucked for some period of time after that.

      That’s not arbitrary. This is an explanation I accept. I do not accept “I remember him being double-teamed a lot.”

      You guys are convincing me we should consider moving on from KP.

      Key word: consider. I am as vocal as any of his critics, but I see why people want to assign this ultra-high ceiling to him. I just don’t want the consensus to be that you automatically give him the max for being super tall and having a good-looking shooting form.

    12. Hubert

      The story about Fiz taking Frank, Mudiay and Dotson to Boston for a playoff game is pretty cool, actually. Can’t see Rambis doing that

      It would be cooler if he left Mudiay at home.

    13. mase

      @10

      I’m not sure it’s as cut and dry as you make it out to be but yea his value is at its lowest point. But you’re saying what, it’s only going to get lower?

      Feels like we are negotiating against ourselves if we give him a max, so why give it?

      Wouldn’t it make sense to test the waters and see what other teams who are willing to offer?

      He’s still young, he’s shown ability to play semi elite, 2 way and has a high ceiling barring injury recovery.
      We should test the waters and let someone else who has another year determine if they want to pay him take that risk… I’m calling it due diligence.

      What’s the worse that could happen, we don’t get any juicy offers and send a message to kp that he’s not viewed as a max player. Sounds like a win win.

    14. Bruno Almeida

      @13

      Well, I hope he closed his eyes every time Rozier, Smart or Morris chucked a terrible shot then.

    15. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      MPJr has a strained hip and that’s why the pro day was canceled. I can see him sliding all the way to 9, and maybe even past 9 now.

    16. mase

      Mpjr welcome to ghe knicks, team with the most talented injury prone young players in history

    17. DRed

      A kid with ‘great potential’ but no real body of work with a fucked up back who can’t stay healthy enough to work out for teams-welcome to the Knicks Michael Porter Jr!

    18. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      A kid with ‘great potential’ but no real body of work with a fucked up back who can’t stay healthy enough to work out for teams-welcome to the Knicks Michael Porter Jr!

      Except it’s worked out pretty well for the Sixers. I guess Simmons had shown more, but the strategy of drafting supertalented but injured players was the core of The Process.

    19. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      There are also rumors that Sacramento is seriously considering Michael Porter Jr at pick #2. I could see a situation where the top of the draft goes Ayton, Porter Jr, Jackson Jr, Bagley, and Bamba. I’d really hope the Knicks have enough sense to offer Orlando the 9, 36, and something else of value for the 6th pick if that were to happen.

    20. chrisk06811

      mase, I hope we get to see him play a little before we offer a max. If not, that’s a tough call. I just don’t see how you could do it. but, that’s a long way away.

    21. nicos

      Didn’t Porter Jr. initially go down with a hip injury right before his back surgery? Talk about high risk, high reward.

    22. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      This is an explanation I accept. I do not accept “I remember him being double-teamed a lot.”

      I hate to do this because it’s a ridiculous way to respond, but do you actually watch Knicks games?

      It was so blatantly obvious and widely discussed among basketball people that teams were sending help and doubling him that we don’t need data to know there was a shift in defensive strategy. We just don’t have some kind of metric to measure the percentages and impact.

    23. BigBlueAL

      The only way either Young or Carter drop to the Knicks is if someone like Sexton or Bridges move up in the draft and in all the latest mock drafts I don’t see that happening. Early on I saw some mocks with Bridges getting picked before 9th but lately I don’t see much talk of that. Like I mentioned a couple of days ago it seems like there is now a clear consensus on who the Top 8 players in this draft are and of course the Knicks pick 9th.

    24. DRed

      Embiid had a different injury and was the clear best prospect in a shitty draft. This is a pretty good draft and we badly need good young players. If we had like the 7th and the 9th pick I’d be fine rolling the dice but passing over a good prospect for Porter is not what I’d do.

    25. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Trading KP now might eventually look like a smart move given his injury history, but imo even if it turns out that way, that tells you nothing about the probabilities of him having an injury riddled career vs. him never developing into anything special vs. him becoming a 2 way dynamo.

      The people arguing to trade him now were probably the same people that wanted Phil fired for simply taking phone calls and seeing what was available for him. That was before the ACL and when Phil was smart enough to wonder if a 7′ 3″ with his frame could stay healthy.

      I would not trade KP even now unless the offer was so good I couldn’t refuse it. Our attitude on this should be similar to Phil’s. You can call, I will listen, but I’ll probably hang up.

    26. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      It’s not inconceivable that Porter has an agreement with some team and is canceling his workout because he doesn’t want some other team ahead of that to draft him. Then again, he’s probably just hurt and a huge risk on multiple levels given we never really saw him play well at the college level.

    27. ClashFan

      Some reports that MPJ had some very severe back spasms, too. It’ll be interesting to see if he feels good enough soon to go ahead and have his showcase. If not, surely he’ll fall on draft night.

    28. GianaDani

      Give ATL 9, 36, top 3 protected 2020 1st, Noah and max cash allowed for 3rd overall.

    29. BigBlueAL

      Latest ESPN mock draft has nobody in the Top 8 dropping to the Knicks so they have them now drafting Kevin Knox which is first time I’ve seen him linked to the Knicks. Most mocks that don’t have any of the Top 8 dropping to the Knicks have them taking Sexton. Not sure what to make of Knox.

    30. Frank

      Looks like Draftexpress now has us taking Kevin Knox at 9 over Mikal. I think that would be a mistake, although I get the intrigue with Knox given his physical characteristics and being one of the younger draft candidates.

      At least they don’t have us taking Collin Sexton still.

    31. Frank

      Give ATL 9, 36, top 3 protected 2020 1st, Noah and max cash allowed for 3rd overall.

      We would have to give 9 and 36 (at least) just for them to take Noah for nothing, so we’d be asking them to give the 2018 #3 pick for a pick 2 years later that doesn’t have a chance to be as good as the one they’re giving up. Don’t think they will go for that.

    32. ClashFan

      There have been reports that Knox is moving up b/c of his workout(s). But, doesn’t everyone look real good in workouts b/c of how staged they are?

    33. Ben R

      I really don’t like Knox. Of all the possible people we could take he is the worst case in my opinion. I really don’t like players with low block and steal numbers, especially when their rebound numbers are also not great. I really question his athleticism. He is slow footed. He screams bust to me.

    34. mase

      @27

      Phil wasn’t saying make an offer but I’ll probably hang up, he was saying make an offer that includes melo and I’ll try to swing that with melo and that was the problem. He was trying to undo his own mistake by adding KP to the mix and that’s when Dolan stepped in rightfully so and fired him.

    35. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      We should just take Mikal Bridges, solidify the defense, and call it a day. We’ll potentially have a top defender at guard, wing, and PF/C. Those 3 have a chance to become the core of an elite defensive team. From there, we’ll 2 need high levels scorers to go along with KP. But for now, we’ll have Hardaway and Kanter as the #2 and #3 option or when Burke is on the court, he can score. The bench will also be OK even though it’s not clear who will be returning. That’s not a bad start to the rebuild. I guess this is all too easy. We are the Knicks and have to complicate things.

    36. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @36

      Where do you get that information from CNN? :-)

      That’s the first I heard of that. I heard 2 stories that seemed plausible even if the details are sketchy.

      1. Ainge said he was asking for too much and was probably not even serious.

      “According to Isola, the Knicks asked for the No. 3 overall pick in the 2017 NBA draft, the Brooklyn Nets’ first-round pick in 2018 and forwards Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder.”

      2. He talked to Phoenix and supposedly wanted Devin Booker and a 1st rounder (to get Josh Jackson) but they said no.

      “We’ve been getting calls. We’re listening, but we’re not intrigued at this level. But as much as we love this guy, we have to do what’s good for our club.”

    37. Owen

      Still a Carter Jr. guy. Hope he gets to us too. The idea of deploying three plus defensive players in Frankie Smokes, Mikal Bridges, and Porzingis sounds ok too. It would be fun to see some great defense in the Garden.

      Going to be a super interesting draft this year.

    38. mase

      It’s not unplausible He was doing two things; while fishing for an unreal offer for KP no one would bite on but the end game was to move melo.

    39. swiftandabundant

      Stratomatic – I hear ya. At the end of the day Mikhal Bridges makes a TON of sense for us.

      1) Fills position of need.
      2) Defensive oriented player
      3) Great “culture” guy (comes more NBA ready, championship pedigree, etc)
      4) Potentially elite 3 point shooting.
      5) In range talent wise for where we are picking (ie, no one would say it was a reach pick, so its safe choice which in media crazy NYC can be a good thing).

    40. thenoblefacehumper

      It wasn’t Melo Phil was trying to attach to Porzingis, it was Noah. Mase is still correct that Phil was trying to use KP as sweetener to rectify a dumbass decision of his, he just confused his Phil Jackson Dumbass Decisions. Understandable mistake, they were quite numerous.

      The top 8 seems very likely to be Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, Bagley, Bamba, Young, MPJ, and Carter (not necessarily in that order but I tried to approximate the order for shits and giggles). In that case, I say we should just take Mikal Bridges and call it a day. He’s not the most exciting prospect in the world but I do think there is some untapped into upside (Villanova’s system isn’t exactly conducive to an individual player truly showing out) and, for whatever it’s worth, he fills a pretty clear need.

      I’d take any of the top-8 if they fell without thinking twice except MPJ, who I kind of want to avoid at all costs to be honest.

    41. Hubert

      We should just take Mikal Bridges, solidify the defense, and call it a day.

      I’m all for that. I would take a single in this year’s draft, and hope we can hit the home run next year with a top three pick.

      This would be a good progression:

      Summer 2018: Add Bridges, re-sign O’Quinn to team-friendly extension, do nothing stupid like stretching Noah or extending Kanter

      2018-19 season: tank hard, let Porzingis get healthy, develop Frank, Bridges, Dotson

      Summer 2019: Pray you get lucky and hit a home run in the lottery, do nothing stupid like re-sign Kanter, stretch Noah or give a supermax to Porzingis

      2019-20 season: play it out with your core players and the stud you hopefully just drafted. That’s probably a playoff team.

      Summer 2020: Now Noah, Lee, Lance are all off the books. If you’ve done nothing stupid, you’ve got 4 good young players you drafted (KP, Frank, Mikal, 2019’s stud), you’ve got O’Quinn on a team-friendly deal, you’ve got Hardaway in the last year of his contract, you’ve got a first round pick in the teens, and you have $30-40 in cap space to sign a max player. Heck, LeBron might be coming off his best year in 2020, maybe we can realistically sign him then ;)

      In that context, Mikal Bridges is perfect, because he’s probably best as the 4th or 5th best player on a really good team.

    42. djphan

      we should be pretty excited to land mikal bridges… he’s a good solid lotto pick… in the mold of say otto porter… and porter went #3 in his draft….

      trying to overthink things and drafting knox… would be a huge unforced error…. there’s some question on value gap amongst the top 10 folks…. but the gap between mikal and knox is fairly wide….

      they share the same deficiencies… namely ball handling and rebounding… they share a strength… in shooting… but mikal has a humongous quantifiable edge on defense…. it is befuddling how they are in the same conversation….

    43. ess-dog

      You can also count me in on Mikal if the top 8 are gone. I’d also be fine with Miles, but Mikal’s D is more attractive, despite his age.

      I’d still like to move at least one of TH2/Lee if not both. I really hope that’s possible.

    44. SJK

      I’d rather have Miles than Mikal. More versatile, better playmaker, better athlete, younger. I think he’ll really benefit from NBA spacing too. Not that I’d be upset with Mikal, but I’d rather have Miles.

    45. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Mikal Bridges plays great team defense but he’s not gonna stop anybody from lighting him up in isolation situations because he has average at best lateral quickness. A guy like Frank Ntilikina can legitimately use his athleticism and length to bother elite ball handlers and Kristaps Porzingis is a legitimate rim protector. On the wing, Bridges isn’t really a stopper as much as he’s a playmaker, and I think that’s under represented in a lot of scouting reports.

      I feel like we’re going to draft him and I’m going to be to Mikal Bridges what Z Man is to Frank Ntilikina. I just cannot find any reason to like his game when I watch him play.

    46. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      https://youtu.be/F98nT4QyIsQ

      I know it’s just a workout, but this is film of Marvin Bagley showcasing his ball handling and jump shooting from mid range. He has the skills of a small forward and rebounds like an animal. If he goes 2nd overall I don’t think Sacramento will regret it in the slightest.

    47. Ben R

      For me if no one in the top 8 fall then I think Smith is the pick. After that it’s probably Miles but I’m pretty ambivalent between him and Mikal.

    48. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      It wasn’t Melo Phil was trying to attach to Porzingis, it was Noah. Mase is still correct that Phil was trying to use KP as sweetener to rectify a dumbass decision of his, he just confused his Phil Jackson Dumbass Decisions. Understandable mistake, they were quite numerous.

      So every article that said he was asking for too much (including a quote from Ainge, his own comments and the fact that no deal was actually made) means nothing, but some unverified idea that he would give away KP just to get rid of Noah is true. OK. That sounds right.

      We have people here ready to trade KP now for less than he’s worth, but when Phil was only taking calls at the top of his value he was an idiot. lmao

      He shouldn’t be traded then or now unless the deal is way too good to pass up.

      Let’s get back to the draft.

    49. ess-dog

      Yeah I mean Mikal has a better career steal % than Trae Young AND a better block % than Bagley. I think at least some of that will translate over.

    50. Ben R

      @52 Zhaire Smith

      I think he has more defensive upside than Mikal and is three years younger with better assist, rebound and block rates. He is also one of the best athletes in the draft.

    51. mase

      I’d do that in a heartbeat to get doncic if he was available but he’s gone so I don’t know who’s worth moving up 5 spots for… maybe bamba

    52. mase

      So then your stuck with parsons for the two clips picks, how do u know they would do that ?

      Knowing the knicks they’d pull off that trade and waste it on mpjr while he’s still available at 9…

    53. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think Phil even really tried to package Noah with KP. We know of one fairly concrete offer Phil made for KP. He offered him to Phoenix for Booker and the #4 pick. I think that would have been a terrible trade, but at least it gives us an idea of what Phil was thinking.

    54. Brian Cronin

      Memphis gauging interest in a package including #4 and Parsons. Sign me up. Both Parsons and. Noah’s contracts would end in 2020.

      Yeah, I’d totally be down with that, as well.

    55. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Does THJr, Mudiay, our 9, and the 36th pick for Parsons and the #4 get it done? Is that too much, too little, or just the right price?

      I’d trade up if Carter or Doncic were there.

    56. mase

      They’re not doing that tradeup doesn’t matter, they like thjr for some reason.
      Three hours dinner with Lonnie walker, tell me they want him

    57. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      You really think josh Jackson and devin booker for kp would’ve been a bad trade?

      It depends on what you think of Devon Booker and Josh Jackson.

      Most advanced stats models don’t like Booker and Josh Jackson was terrible early in the season.

      However, IMO that’s the kind of trade that would have made sense. If you feared that KP was going to be injury prone because of his size, if you could get another young player with star potential and a high draft pick that would net you another player you liked, you’d have to consider it.

      I’m not a huge Booker fan, but I think he’s underrated by advanced stats models.

      Josh Jackson was terrible early in the season, but was playing a lot better at the end of the season.

      It’s still too early to tell.

    58. mase

      I would agree with you, I always thought Kp was too tall hope I’m wrong.

      The brass holes seem to love two guards, watch Lonnie walker at9

    59. nicos

      Lonnie Walker looks like Dion Waiters 2.0. Of everyone who seems possible he’d be my least favorite choice.

    60. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Porzingis for the #4, two future 2nds and Parsons.

    61. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Grizzlies just want back a young player in return? We would be able to have the #4 and #9 picks? And Chandler Parsons wasn’t even that bad? If we could do Tim Hardaway Jr and the #9 for the draft rights to Luka Doncic I’d be running that opportunity down like a mad man. Chandler Parsons is still good enough to start when he’s healthy and it doesn’t affect our 2019 cap space if it’s TH2 for Parsons. All for the price of a disgruntled Luka Doncic who won’t want to play in Memphis, the Grizzlies could have Mikal Bridges, Tim Hardaway Jr, and get rid of Chandler Parsons? You gotta think they’d sign up for that.

    62. thenoblefacehumper

      So every article that said he was asking for too much (including a quote from Ainge, his own comments and the fact that no deal was actually made) means nothing, but some unverified idea that he would give away KP just to get rid of Noah is true. OK. That sounds right.

      Lol. Lolol.

      I know, I know. Ian Begley and Adrian Wojnarowski were part of the Fake News Deep State Media that conspired to take down the greatest executive in sports. Had they left him alone Kurt Rambis would be well on his way to coaching Derrick Rose, Arron Afflalo, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Williams, and Joakim Noah to a championship. It’s a shame no one could keep up with Phil Jackson’s galaxy brain!

    63. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @70

      Well the article speculated that they just want a young player back in return, i don’t think it was based on a source per se. I think any rational gm would demand at least a young player and one more asset for the #4 besides the pick swap. It’s an open question whether or not Memphis’ FO is rational, so there’s maybe hope for a THJr + Mudiay trade for Parsons ans the #4. But the most likely scenario acceptable to all sides is THJr + Mudiay + the #9 for Parsons and the #4. Which you absolutely do without blinking even if Doncic isn’t there. If they want the 36 pick as well, that makes me think the trade is only worth it if Carter Doncic or maybe Young is available. But the 2nd trade is an instant yes and the 3rd you strongly consider. The first is an historically bad trade but not unprecedented (Divac for Kobe anyone?)

    64. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @71

      “It wasn’t Melo Phil was trying to attach to Porzingis, it was Noah. Mase is still correct that Phil was trying to use KP as sweetener to rectify a dumbass decision of his,”

      I guess you missed this part of your own article.

      “Jackson and the Knicks’ asking price turned out to be too high (it was described by one opposing team as astronomical), which makes sense. You ask for a massive return when you’re talking about trading a young star.”

      That means they might have tried to include Noah as part of some trade scenarios, but they wanted a kings ransom back over and above that. KP was NOT being used to dump Noah. It was an attempt to rob the other team. You would have to consider a deal that allowed you throw Noah in and also bring back a good player and pick depending on the pick and player. That would be even better than just getting a player and pick.

    65. thenoblefacehumper

      If Noah was being included, it would quite obviously lessen the return from the team receiving him. I don’t see how that’s disputable. So Phil Jackson was shopping Porzingis, and telling teams they could get a better deal by taking Noah. You can play whatever semantic games you want, but that’s called using Porzingis as a sweetener to dump Noah.

    66. mase

      Yea but Phil was fired before they could counter offer Noah so logic tells you he was asking a kings ransom to make the counter offer.

    67. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @75

      I disagree.

      Some of the talks with Boston involved 2 lottery picks and good young players.

      There might have been scenarios discussed where Noah would be included (which would great for NY). If you could get rid him as part of a deal because someone was that hot for KP, you do it. He wasn’t lowering the asking price to get rid of Noah. He still wanted a ton.

      One such possibility was Kyrie to NY. The Cavs wanted Porzingis. So it would have been Kyrie and some pick (s) and whatever else for KP and Noah.

    68. mase

      Kp and Noah to Cleveland , where did you hear that cnn?
      You’re joking right!?!

      No way Phil can trade Noah to Cleveland while including kp without it being a seeetner so Phil tried to pull a fast one and make it look like Noah has value while he doesn’t because it’s his ass trading kp as a sweetener.

    69. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      The bottom line is that Phil wanted a ton, got some pretty decent offers, turned them all down and was called an idiot and fired for even thinking about it. Now people practically want to give Porzingis away. The point I am making is that people are all over the map for no good reason. There is never anything wrong with listening to offers (though it would be better if there were no leaks), but in all likelihood people are overreacting now and want way too little back. It would be insane to trade him right now while he’s hurt when it’s more likely he’s going to come back better than worse.

    70. thenoblefacehumper

      turned them all down and was called an idiot and fired for even thinking about it

      It may come as a shock to you that there were other reasons for this.

    71. thenoblefacehumper

      One thing is for sure, KP ain’t as promising a young player as Gleyber Torres.

    72. mase

      Yea but that’s not the discussion at hand is it?

      We were discussing Phil attempt to move Noah when he realized he couldn’t move melo and adding kp as a sweetener which was his ultimate demise.

      Don’t twist it,

    73. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Last try. He wanted a potential star player and a high lottery pick as a minimum (probably more based on the Boston scenario and comments from executives).

      Let me try to explain it this way.

      I’ll give you an ounce of gold if you give me $1600 back (gold is only worth $1300 an ounce now).

      I’ll give you an once of gold and a pile of shit if you give me $1600 back.

      In either case I am robbing you, but in the latter case I’m getting rid of a pile of shit on top of the robbery . He wasn’t saying I’ll give you an ounce of gold and a pile of shit and you only have to give me $1000 back so I can get rid of this pile of shit. He still wanted back a star player and high lottery pick at a minimum. That’s why nothing got done. He was asking for way too much.

    74. mase

      Let’s break this down;
      “The bottom line is that Phil wanted a ton, got some pretty decent offers, turned them all down and was called an idiot and fired for even thinking about it.“

      What was offered? Nada. It was Phil making the offers.

      Phil’s was not fired fir entertaining the thought of trading kp he was fired for using him as a sweetener.

      Everyone knows that!

      .

    75. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      That’s some crazy stuff you’re claiming… Every journalist reported it as being about Booker + a pick. Similar terms with Boston. No one said a deal fell apart because he wanted to offload Noah too. I mean, Phil did plenty of dumb stuff, but you’re the idiot if you can’t stick to what he actually did, or was reported as wanting to do, and not what you’ve decided on your own would be typical for him to do.

    76. ClashFan

      I wish I could somehow be privy to any discussions that might be going on between Memphis and the Knicks. If somehow Memphis is desperate to unload Parsons, I’d be pestering them with calls, and trying to pry that pick from them while still keeping the #9 pick and not dealing away KP or Frank. I seriously doubt that they are THAT desperate, but who knows?

      Supposedly they just want a young established player back. Is that all? Does THJ fit that criteria? I seriously doubt it. Could they be that dumb?

      A dream trade would be Parsons and the #4 pick for THJ, Mudiay (to balance salaries…he’s just an expiring here), and…something else….surely they’d want more. I’d gladly throw in the Chicago 2nd rounder. Or, to avoid giving up the #9, I’d be willing to give next year’s Knicks first rounder with like top 5 or 6 protection, bumping to 2020 with only top 3 protection. I’d do that to get another young player in right now…so you could hopefully build with a core of KP, Frank, Doncic and BPA at the #9.

      Ah, not gonna happen…

    77. ClashFan

      @86
      That’s how I remember it, too. The only concrete rumor was KP to Phoenix, and most of the media was laughing b/c they overrate Booker so much. Ha ha. Phil wants a young superstar AND a top pick. Ha ha.

      I have a theory about why Phil was so publicly shopping KP. I think he was very put off about KP skipping the exit interview, so much so that the public shopping was meant to worry him and his brother, teach them a lesson, etc. A bit petty for Phil to act like that, but really no big deal, esp. compared to Melo’s NTC, the Rose deal, and Noah signing.

      Just my theory.
      :-)

    78. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I have a theory about why Phil was so publicly shopping KP. I think he was very put off about KP skipping the exit interview, so much so that the public shopping was meant to worry him and his brother, teach them a lesson, etc.

      There’s no evidence for it, so it’s pure speculation… But that would jibe with his mind games persona. It is interesting that it happened post-exit meeting. Phil had a huge ego, so it wouldn’t be surprising if KP skipping out made him want to set the record straight where the power was.

      Of course, Phil was wrong….!

    79. JK47

      Signing an obviously decrepit declining veteran to a terrible contract then using your best asset to try to dump the terrible contract one year later: KNICKSIEST!

      Seriously though, Phil really sucked, like for realz

    80. slovene knick

      One naval guy named Luke (probably Zeke’s wife) told us five years ago that we’re bound for a stunt and a distraction. In the meantime he was rightfully banned cos he had nothing more of value to say.
      But his reasoning was:The plan was to hire a big name guy who is prepared to possibly do a shitty job to make the creditor look less bad and to draw heat away. It was success for all parties except for the fans. One paid with money to get his name back, the other paid his name to get the money.
      From the PR point of view it makes some sense. Dolan saved us from Phil…..what a sentence:))

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