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Tuesday, December 18, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.01.11)

  • [ESPN] Bulls treat moms to NYC trip, win over Knicks
    (Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:26:35 AM)

    In what is believed to be a league first, the Bulls organized a special trip for the players to take their moms on the team’s charter as they traveled to New York for Chicago’s game against the Knicks.

  • [NYPost] Jarrett Jack’s costly turnover spoils his triple-double
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:12:00 PM)

    Jarrett Jack is not shy in crunch time. Quite the opposite, actually. The veteran point guard seems to play with more confidence down the stretch of close games, as was the case Wednesday in the Knicks’ 122-199 double overtime loss to the Bulls at Madison Square Garden. At 34, Jack became the oldest Knick to…

  • [NYPost] Knicks at halfway point in more ways than one
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:00:45 PM)

    When Jeff Hornacek was asked for his midseason assessment of the Knicks before their 41st game of the season Wednesday night at the Garden, the essence of his answer was this: “They ain’t scared.” That counts as progress after last year’s debacle under former team president Phil Jackson felt like “Dead Men Walking” every time…

  • [NYPost] Bulls’ own unicorn gets best of Kristaps Porzingis and Knicks
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:45:37 PM)

    The Bulls’ unicorn introduced himself to the Garden crowd Wednesday night in a big way. Rookie forward Lauri Markkanen, who has drawn comparisons to Kristaps Porzingis, put on a show in the Bulls’ 122-119 double-overtime victory over the Knicks, notching 33 points and 10 rebounds. The parallels to Porzingis were put on full display, as…

  • [NYPost] Instagram model says she’s just ‘friends’ with Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:46:04 PM)

    Add another page to the Kristaps Porzingis-Jen Selter story. Selter, the fitness Instagram model who has expressed interest in KP, was sitting a few rows off the court Wednesday night when the Knicks lost 122-119 to the Bulls in double overtime. Asked by The Post about her relationship with the Knicks star, Selter insisted with…

  • [NYPost] Knicks drop double-overtime crusher to nemesis Bulls
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:44:17 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek sees the Bulls as rebuilding club similar to his Knicks. Except Chicago finds a way to pull out close games and the Knicks find ways to lose them. With 7-foot rookie Lauri Markkanen looking like the best European big man on the floor, the Bulls needed two overtimes this time, but pulled off…

  • [NYPost] Ramon Sessions knows his Knicks’ days could be numbered
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 3:39:24 PM)

    Ramon Sessions has been around long enough. He knows how this works. He knows this is a business. He knows to ignore the outside noise. With rumors swirling the Knicks may be close to waiving the 31-year-old journeyman, as the team works on a deal to add another point guard — Trey Burke — to…

  • [NYPost] Enes Kanter baffled at Knicks’ ‘weird’ use of him
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 3:30:56 PM)

    Enes Kanter isn’t complaining but he’s also wondering why he and the fourth quarter don’t mix any more, calling it “weird’’ — a word he used four times. Kanter entered Wednesday night’s 122-119 loss to the Bulls having not played in the fourth quarter for five straight games. He played four minutes midway through the…

  • [SNY Knicks] Jack’s triple-double not enough in Knicks 122-119 double OT loss to Bulls
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:50:00 PM)

    Rookie Lauri Markkanen scored a season-high 33 points, Kris Dunn shook off a nightmarish shooting night to make the tiebreaking basket in the second overtime, and the Chicago Bulls beat the New York Knicks 122-119 on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] THJ nearing return for Knicks; Sessions roster spot may be in jeopardy
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:45:54 PM)

    Knicks coach Jeff Hornaceck said prior to Wednesday’s game with the Bulls that it’s possible injured guard Tim Hardaway Jr. could return this weekend.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks vs Bulls, 7:30 p.m.
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:30:00 PM)

    Just 2-7 in their last nine games — but coming off a 100-96 win at Dallas on Monday that stopped a three-game losing streak — the New York Knicks welcome the Chicago Bulls to Madison Square Garden on Wednesday in their first matchup this season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks showcase their bowling skills at 19th Annual Knicks Bowl
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:00:52 PM)

    The Knicks took the time to try out their skills with a bowling ball instead of a basketball at the 19th annual Knicks Bowl event Tuesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hardaway, Burke reunion with Knicks ‘would be like the old times’
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:34:25 AM)

    Knicks SG Tim Hardaway Jr. would love to reconnect with his college teammate, Trey Burke, on the court if he were to get the call-up.

  • [NYDN] Knicks may waive Ramon Sessions to create roster spot
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:12:57 PM)

    Sessions has been demoted from starting point guard to bench warmer to the leading candidate to be gone.

  • [NYDN] Despite Porzingis’ clutch play, Knicks fall to Bulls in double OT
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:11:55 PM)

    The Knicks are now officially past the halfway of their season.

  • [NYDN] Jarrett Jack posts triple-double, but key gaffes cost Knicks late
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:02:57 PM)

    Jarrett Jack pulled off a few of the highlight plays of the night.

  • [NYDN] Current and former stars gather at 19th Annual Knicks Bowl
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 6:03:53 AM)

    In the shadow of MSG Tuesday night, Knicks stars present and past came out to give back to their community and fans.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks drop double OT thriller in another loss to Bulls
    (Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:53:55 AM)

    The Knicks reached the midpoint of their season with a disappointing game that has typified their first half. They built a double-digit lead at home, squandered it, Kristaps Porzingis disappeared at key moments, they made some dramatic plays but in the end they ran out of them.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks need to learn how to finish the job
    (Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:32:03 AM)

    The Knicks are going to have to figure this thing out.

  • [NY Newsday] Still wait-and-see, but Tim Hardaway might play during weekend
    (Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:45:00 PM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr.’s return is drawing nearer.

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    106 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.11)

    1. thenoblefacehumper

      Phil Jackson wanted to trade Porzingis for Devin Booker. You’re free to think we’d be in a better position if that had happened, but you’re wrong.

      Anyhow, this team is fucking awful. The good news is right now we find ourselves in the 12th spot in the lottery, which would guarantee us one of Doncic/Bagley/Ayton/Porter/Bamba/Jackson Jr./Young/W. Carter/Sexton/Miles Bridges/Robert Williams/Mikal Bridges. There’s obviously an enormous range there, but that’s pretty much the complete list of intriguing players in this draft (I’m actually pretty low on Sexton but my guess is someone takes him before we pick anyway).

      Also Jerian Grant is averaging 7.7 assists/36 in 900+ minutes and would be the best point guard on our roster. Don’t trade developing young players for Derrick Rose, kids!

    2. ess-dog

      I’m excited to trade Lee and O’Quinn and start this tank for real. I think they will net us something nice. I also think at the und of the day, we’ll have a top-10 pick. Top-5 would be better, but we can still get a great player.

    3. thenoblefacehumper

      Also, Markkanen takes 73% of his shots from 3 or from 0-3 feet away from the basket (50% from 3, 23% from 0-3).

      Porzingis’ combined number is 40%. I’m aware that it’s not as simple as just telling Porzingis to take better shots, but there’s no excuse for Lauri fucking Markkanen having a better TS% than him. Hornacek really should yank him every time he tries some stupid fadeaway nonsense with more than 7 seconds left on the shot clock.

    4. Frank

      KP’s shot distribution seriously makes me wonder whether the team IS really stealth-tanking, and whether all these post touches are a developmental thing.

      Seriously – they need a basket to tie the game and they run a simple pin-down for KP with McDermott as the screener and get KP rolling to the hoop for a dunk. That simple action has worked again and again this year and they very rarely do it. Instead, they run all this action intended to get KP a post-up at the elbow. It literally does look like they just turned KP into a 7’3″ version of Melo, and KP is just not as good as Melo is on those kinds of shots. It just makes no sense to me unless this really is a developmental year and they want to let KP struggle through it.

      That said, I do not think this team will go into the dumpster — too many young guys, not enough Derrick Rose / Melo types who just mail it in. And I do think that THJ will help the offense a lot.

    5. Max

      We must thank Phil for the Rose trade and the Noah’s contract,
      two shitty decisions that put our rebuilding clock back at least two years if not more. Without these two brain farts we’re likely to be in a wayyyy better situation.
      Now Phil’s relaxing and smoking pot in Montana and we’re left with this bunch of very imaginative losers.
      Many players on this team have value, but the roster mix, timeline, contracts situation and playing time decisions are far from ideal.
      Yesterday’s loss let me with a bad taste, the Bulls look ahead of us in their plans and that’s frankly disheartening.
      Let’s see if we could get something useful before the trade deadline…

    6. wetbandit

      We should be climbing out of tank-mode on the backs of our youth. Instead we won games on the backs of vets all along. It’s so so stupid.
      I blame Hornacek for KPs stupid shot selection. KP just keeps demanding the ball in the post, and it’s so obviously part of their game when everyone stands back and watches and I throw up in my mouth a little bit.
      We played 4 out of 5 players in both overtime’s who were old and stupid. Lee, Oquinn Beasley Jack. So important to win games on their backs.
      I still root for losses but this was stupid. Maybe kp learned which shots are good based on his late game big shots. But it was a stupid loss

    7. Bruno Almeida

      The infuriating thing about everything Phil did is that were wasting the years Porzingis will likely be the most valuable in relation to his contract. By paying Noah + Lee a combined 30 million and wasting a year on the Rose reclamation project that was never going to work, we already wasted that window.

      If it turns out, as it is looking to be the case, that KP is not suited to be the #1 star on this team, this team will be back in the Melo years in a way: having to build around a superstar that’s not a #1 guy, yet gets paid as one.

      At least this time we do have draft picks, but on a team that’s not suited to maximizing their value (or good enough to not depend on them). The whole thing is so stupid.

    8. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      @5

      I don’t think there’s any question they are trying to develop Porzingis and teach him how to operate against smaller players and out of the post with the long term in mind. The problem is he’s way to weak to do what they are asking him to do now.

    9. Max

      Draft night fever dream:

      KP to Boston for their two firsts of this year and Jaylen Brown.

      We’ll be in play for a top five pick, a lottery pick, a (very) late first and two second rounders.

      Brown is a starter, he’ll be 22 in october, with Frank we’ll have 7 players 22 or under, plus next year probable lottery pick, now we can really rebuild.

      Boston’ll have a three year window, after that we could be ready.

      Ok, I must stop stealing Phil’s pot….

    10. wetbandit

      If Hornacek was future-minded and not stupidly coaching for his job, we would be seeing Frank, McDermott, Willy, and Kanter more. Since I’m seeing relatively more Jack, Lee, Beasley, Oquinn, and Lance than a future-minded coach would play, I’m thinking Hornacek is not trying to stealth tank (a bs term- it is obvious when teams try to tank), thinks he is winning games on the back of KPs stupid midrange contested shots, and has a better chance of winning with the vets (cut to Jack’s amazing and stupid floaters) rather than the youth. All of which I have issue with. This loss and the record is on Hornacek. Management bears blame for the record since they acquired and kept all those guys, but no one Made him play Jack and Lee play over 40 min.

    11. chrisk06811

      I thought KP did a great job last night, in the 2nd half, in looking like the 2nd best really tall dude on the floor

    12. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      There was a silver lining to last night’s game.

      Kanter is starting to grumble about playing time down the stretch of games and Hornacek was clear that he plays O’Quinn because he’s the better defender.

      If the Knicks keep losing and Hornacek keeps pulling Kanter late, there’s a better chance he opts out. IMO, that would be good for us. He’s not our long term solution at C and he’s going to be tough to trade. If he opts out to get a longer contract, we may not get anything back immediately, but we’ll get some extra cap space we can replace him with (same thing as a trade except we get to pick the player (s) and hand out the contract). We are probably still too bad to attract any really good FAs, but as long as we bring in players on short fair contracts, they can still be used in trades later or will expire quickly. And you never know, maybe somebody young enough and good enough will want to play here.

    13. Bruno Almeida

      While I do agree that Kanter is not very valuable for this team’s future, the ideal would be the opposite: he plays a lot to showcase him for a trade.

      If he just opts out at the end of this season we just lose one of the assets with some value we have for nothing, while barring Willy from getting minutes for an entire season.

    14. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      While I do agree that Kanter is not very valuable for this team’s future, the ideal would be the opposite: he plays a lot to showcase him for a trade.

      If he just opts out at the end of this season we just lose one of the assets with some value we have for nothing, while barring Willy from getting minutes for an entire season.

      1. Kanter’s value is probably as high right now as it’s going to get (though still not high enough to think he’s worth his salary).

      2. He’s going to keep playing, just not down the stretch of games. If we play him down the stretch he’ll be happy and want to stay. lol

      3. He’s going to be tough to trade.

      4. If he opts out we don’t get nothing for him. We get cap space. We then use that cap space to add new players. The new players are the functional equivalent of who we traded him for.

    15. Max

      Cap space’ll be great, as long as management doesn’t shell out a bunch of THJ 2.0 or Baker 2.0 deals…

      In Perry we trust :-)

    16. mase

      Max
      That’s def the fever talking. Here’s my fever trade; kp and Noah to Atlanta on draft nite for the overall 1st(doncic), another pick and shroder

    17. Bruno Almeida

      @15

      Well, yes, he’s going to be hard to trade, but I would much rather get even a 2nd rounder plus an expiring contract or a useful player than just letting him walk for the cap space, which won’t be enough to make a play for a top guy anyway.

      If he’s untradeable obviously this does not matter, I just don’t see a reason to not try to trade every veteran with some value on this team.

    18. JK47

      There is really nothing this team is doing right now that makes any sense. They’re trying to squeeze meaningless wins out of Michael Beasley, Jarrett Jack, Courtney Lee, Kyle O’Quinn and the offense is built around Porzingis isos and long twos. The only thing I like about this team as currently constructed is that the two main young pieces are long and play good defense. Other than that this ish is a complete mess.

      We gon’ suck for a while still.

    19. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      If he’s untradeable obviously this does not matter, I just don’t see a reason to not try to trade every veteran with some value on this team.

      I didn’t say we shouldn’t try. I’ve been advocating trying. I just don’t think it’s a particularly high probability event to occur. Him opting out is not high probability either. But the more pissed off he gets the better the probability.

      I love draft picks, but I think maybe we are starting to overvalue them (speaking for myself and in general).

      Take a look at KP’s draft for example.

      You could have drafted Towns or KP, gotten a great value, and be thrilled.

      You also could have drafted Okafor, Russell, or Hezonja in the top 5. Any one of those other 3 may still turn out be a terrific player, but I’d argue all 3 were bad deals on their rookie contracts. Once you get past the top 5, you pay less, but the chances of getting a super bargain star player on a rookie contract is much lower.

      Now that players are coming out after 1 year, they are so early in their development, they often aren’t even bargains in their first few years. Then you are faced with the issue of extension before you even know for sure what you really have.

      If you start drafting older players, you can be more certain what you are getting, but if he was really that hot a prospect he wouldn’t still be in college.

    20. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      We don’t actually think Brad Stevens wants to trade the farm for a guy about to be offered a $195M contract who can’t rebound and takes most of his shots from 20 feet out, right?

    21. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      The only thing I like about this team as currently constructed is that the two main young pieces are long and play good defense.

      Modern offenses are designed around PGs and all teams are trying to penetrate and get to the basket.

      We have a player that can defend the paint and another that can defend top PGs.

      Frank has been disappointing lately, but all he to do is get to “average” on offense and his defense will have an impact almost every single night. The league is flooded with good PGs that are critical to their team. He’ll be guarding a critical player on the other team almost every night. That’s not as true of the other positions. I’m just starting to realize how brilliant it was to get an elite defender at PG. The light just went off for me. He just has to stop being a liability on offense. He’s only 19.

    22. Bruno Almeida

      @21

      Ainge did trade Thomas, Crowder and the Nets pick for Kyrie, who is a better player than Porzingis but was by all accounts a less efficient player than IT.

      Obviously the Thomas injury was very influential in the deal and all, but I think Ainge would definitely be interested in Porzingis. Maybe not for the Lakers pick plus Brown, as he would definitely try to lowball the Knicks as much as he can because that’s what decent GMs have learned about the Knicks.

    23. Hubert

      That said, I do not think this team will go into the dumpster — too many young guys, not enough Derrick Rose / Melo types who just mail it in. And I do think that THJ will help the offense a lot.

      I think you’re right. We can dream of a top 10 pick now, but when Hardaway is back, this team will go back to winning just enough games to make this year a total waste of time. Unless it gets Hornacek fired. Then at least we’ll have accomplished something.

      Also, I don’t think we’re trading Lee. There’s no market for him and the brass likes him. KOQ is the only guy I can see us moving.

    24. swiftandabundant

      Yes, lets fire Hornaceck bc hey it must be his fault! Lets get another coach in here! After all, we’re the Knicks. Can’t have the same coach for more than 2 seasons! What, we want the players to have continuity! I mean why won’t Hornaceck play a more modern style offense like he did in Phoenix! He’s got the great Jarret Jack and Ramon Sessions and a rookie point guard who is more defense than offense at this point! What more does he need! Why won’t the team shoot more 3s! They’re only missing their best/most prolific 3 point shooter for the last month! I mean, can’t we get more open shots for Lance or something!

      Lets fire the coach! For coaching a team to a record better than people expected with a roster that has 4 centers, two of which are making a combined 36 million dollars and one of which is pretty much unplayable!

      that’ll solve everything!

    25. Hubert

      Is Kanter really hard to trade? He’s having an outstanding year and is on a short term contract.

      I think teams that are looking at DeAndre Jordan would be interested in Kanter as a second choice. Milwaukee, for instance. Parker + Teletovic for Kanter works.

    26. english_knick

      The frustrating thing is we’re three years in and we still don’t really know what KP is. He’s never played with a good PG and he’s never played in a system designed to optimise his skills. We know when he’s on he is elite on both ends. But we also know he’s physically not that strong and has a growing penchant for poor quality shots. And that he doesn’t want to play the position he’s most suited to in the modern NBA.

      Crucially, we’re running out of time to Find our before we have to give him a $200m contract.

      For my money, I do think we’ve seen enough to know he can justify being a max contract player on a good team if the rest of the team is well constructed. An elite rim protector who can be a very good second option or sometime first option offense can justify that tag. But only you can find another elite player or two who complement his skills and right now I don’t see where one of those comes from when we’re capped out and determined to win as many games as possible even when our win ceiling is probably 40 games.

    27. danvt

      Yeah, that’s it for me on win now mode. Just plain uninteresting rooting for a team in tenth place and falling farther below .500 by the week. I was happy to root for the reclamation of Jack and Beasley. 41-41 and the eighth seed would have been good enough to keep me interested, but we can’t even beat CHI at home. Time to start looking at avenues to get better next year.

      I do have to say that I appreciate an organic process as opposed to out and out tank from the start. Hornacek rung what he could out of this roster. I’m not pissed about lack of trades so far or not playing WHG. We took a shot at making the fans happy now. We got rid of Melo and stressed team concept. There’s been some cultural improvement. So, it’s all good, but now we need to go in a different direction. Trey Burke needs to come up. Sessions needs to go. I think there should be significant interest in some of our vets and we should take what we can, even if it’s just expirings and second rounders.

      Time to move on. KP looks horrible at times but he’s got too much on his shoulders. Better ball movement, more creation from the PGs and he may yet become efficient.

    28. Jack Bauer

      If they don’t give KP the max or damn near close to it he will leave for nothing unless they trade him, that’s the way the modern NBA works at this point. It’s the proverbial between a rock and a hard place. He’s not playing well now, but it’s obvious he’s a talented player and very young still, so there is hope he will grow into that Star this team badly needs. I agree with the posts above, it’s up to the coaches to put the players in the best position to succeed and to work on their weaknesses in practice. Seems pretty obvious that’s not happening now.

      They absolutely need to be playing the younger guys more. Dotson, McDermott, Willy, and Frank should be getting extended looks. But that would be too easy, because Knicks.

      Just a terrible loss last night, they looked awful for long stretches. Suddenly that second rounder from Chicago that most on this board were having an orgasm about is not looking so great.

    29. JK47

      This just seems like a completely wasted season from KP in terms of his development. Giving him the ball at the elbow 25 times every game and having him “create” bad fadeaway jumpers is pretty much the OPPOSITE of developing him as a player. I know there’s no PG here to really speak of, so maybe the team should have used the resources it had to try to find him a competent guard to run PnR with him instead of throwing money at the Tim Hardaway magic beans.

      Instead of developing Porzingis’ skills and building on his skill set, they’re just giving him the ball and having him play the game in the dumbest, least efficient way possible. Fuck this organization, man. Shit never changes around here. Going on two decades of suck now.

    30. swiftandabundant

      This blog is insufferable sometimes. We’re in a good place regardless of where we draft this year or what our record is. Its going to end up being better than it was predicted, Melo is gone, we got decent assets in return for him (which no one thought possible) and we have all our picks going forward. Cap space will become available in due time and the young players will get better. We’ve played without our second(or third) best player for half the season now.

      Everyone needs to chill out. What happened to KP is three years away from being three years away? When he was drafted the people who thought he would be good said it would be at least 5 seasons before he reached his potential.

    31. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      @32

      I’m more or less with you, but I’m a little bit down on KP because he’s made virtually no progress since last year and faded again. I would have been happy with some “progress”.

      We obviously have an issue at PG, but Jack is averaging around 8 assists per 36 and last night he had a triple double. What more can you want. I can’t see blaming him for KP’s issues. Jack’s problem is that he’s not efficient and can’t defend. He getting assists at a good clip.

    32. Bruno Almeida

      The Knicks are 17th in assists per game, just middle of the pack, and they have 4 players posting career highs on ts%.

      Porzingis’ efficiency issues are not because we don’t have a PG, it’s because he keeps getting the ball in long 2 spots and firing bad mid range shots. Of course if we had a better PG the guy could create some better shots here and there, but nobody is forcing him to try back down tougher players or shooting over them. It’s on him and Hornacek for not devising different ways to involve him on the offense.

    33. Hubert

      The frustrating thing is we’re three years in and we still don’t really know what KP is.

      I think the frustrating thing is that we do know what he is, and it’s clearly not worth the contract he’s going to expect. If he and the Knicks were honest about the obvious limitations in his offensive game and the fact that his body is a health risk (like Curry’s was when he signed his second deal) we could get him at a fair price. I would be very happy with KP on a 4 year, $88mm deal, for instance.

      Just out of curiosity, why are people quoting ~$200mm as his max? I assumed it would be on the same level as Wiggins and Embiid (~$150mm).

    34. geo

      part of the problem is our two “leaders” aren’t really impact players…late in the game most of the guys display zero confidence out on the court…

      i got to be honest – when the team starts sucking this bad – it almost makes me miss some of the weird, ridiculous shit phil had going on:

      It appears Dennis Smith Jr. wasn’t the only draft prospect forced to eat strange cuisine with Phil Jackson during the lead up to the 2017 NBA draft.

      Chicago Bulls forward Lauri Markkanen revealed Wednesday that the former New York Knicks president made him eat some form of raw meat during a meeting in New York.

      “He made me taste raw fish, or raw steak,” Markkanen told Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News. “I didn’t like it.”

      Smith, who was later drafted by the Dallas Mavericks, revealed in August that Jackson “pressured” him to eat octopus during a predraft dinner.

      “We went out to some restaurant and they had me eat some octopus, like an actual octopus tentacle,” Smith Jr. told Bondy. “First time ever. I wasn’t going to try it, honestly. They kind of put the pressure on me to do it.”

      Markkanen said he was unsure of Jackson’s motivation for the odd request.

      “I don’t know. Maybe he was trying to get something from my personality with that,” Markkanen said.

      i’m gonna go out on a limb and say – if you’re unable to identify what you’re about to eat – it may be okay to just pass on it…

    35. JK47

      You have a talented player with obvious skills like Porzingis, you need to develop those skills. The Knicks are fucking ruining him. He’s Tall Skinny Melo.

      Drafting the right players is only one part of the equation. Player development is a real thing, and they’re cocking this up with Porzingis. It seems very obvious to me.

    36. Hubert

      I do have to say that I appreciate an organic process as opposed to out and out tank from the start. Hornacek rung what he could out of this roster. I’m not pissed about lack of trades so far or not playing WHG. We took a shot at making the fans happy now

      I agree. But it sucked that we had such a favorable early schedule. We would have figured it out organically much sooner with a regular distribution of home and away games.

    37. geo

      so we’re minus 3 in the loss column at the moment – just looking at our upcoming schedule – i can see us dropping as low as 5 or 6 below .500 by the trading deadline…

    38. ClashFan

      Phil’s food eating deal kind of reminds me of stories about Thomas Edison, assuming that they are true:
      https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/yes-thomas-edison-actually-made-job-candidates-try.html

      Supposedly, if you added salt to your food/soup without tasting it first, he would not hire you.

      So, despite heavy use late of vets OQ, Lee, Jack, and Beasley with KP, the Knicks still lost to the Bulls. As frustrating as it is to watch that, it is better to lose doing that than win. Call it stealth tanking or whatever. I do think that H. is trying to win and put the “best” guys out there to do so. I can’t really blame him for that, but the Knicks need to move on from that.

      We can only hope that the Knicks are talking to teams, trying to deal OQ/Kanter, Lee, Beasley and Jack. I don’t know that teams would give anything for Jack or Beasley, but they do fill up stat sheets, so maybe someone out there would give up a 2nd rounder to add one to their bench?

    39. Hubert

      @36 sounds like Phil is the Harvey Weinstein of food.

      “He told me if I ate the steak tartare he would make me a star like Scottie Pippen.”

    40. Nick C.

      I get the concept of perhaps testing someones openness to new things and knowledge of food as a sort of personality test, but to expect 19 year old kids to be at the level of sophistication to not be put off by what sounds like a sushi restaurant is unrealistic.

    41. swiftandabundant

      The Knicks are not “ruining” KP. This is part of his growth and development! Is he taking too many long twos and too many bad isos right now? Yes. But he’s also been doing that A LOT more the last month since Hardaway has been down. I mean, people on this blog are really just going to conveniently ignore that Tim’s been out? I’m not saying he’s a superstar or anything but he’s our best outside threat, our most athletic guard, our best guard at getting to the paint and breaking down defenses and getting easy points in transition. He’s been replaced by freaking Lance in the starting line up, which yes could be a thing to have against Horns but its not like he’s got all these great options on the bench.

      The team is front court heavy after the Melo trade. KP is gettin double teamed like crazy now especially with Tim down. The starting line up of JJ, Tim, Lee, KP and Kanter has a very good record! We just haven’t seen that starting five in like five weeks now.

      And maybe that’s gonna screw our chances at the playoffs and yeah it would suck to get a pick not in the top 5 because we started out hot and then hit this wall. But them’s the breaks folks. IT happens. KP has not reached his potential. Not even close. Frank is a freaking rookie. We have holes at the 3 and the 1 and we got dead cap space with Noah. IT is what it is. But hey lets fire Horns and since we all want them to trade Lee and KQ then obviously the Knicks must be willfully ignoring some great deal out there for those guys that everyone on this blog would easily be able to get.

      You guys talk about patience and a real rebuild but the truth is very few of you actually have the stomach for it. You look at lottery picks in the top 5 the same way donnie and the old Knicks regimes looked at cap space and free agency. A cure all that will instantly make us contenders. Both are fools gold.

    42. Hubert

      I mean, people on this blog are really just going to conveniently ignore that Tim’s been out? I’m not saying he’s a superstar or anything but he’s our best outside threat, our most athletic guard, our best guard at getting to the paint and breaking down defenses and getting easy points in transition. He’s been replaced by freaking Lance in the starting line up,

      And yet, there’s Michael Beasley doing just fine.

    43. Bruno Almeida

      @45

      And Kanter, and O’Quinn, and McDermott, and Lee… Every non rookie, non pg on the rotation is having a career year in ts% except Porzingis.

      This excuse needs to die quickly, let’s please not create another “but Melo’s teammates sucked!” situation. Superstars perform, and KP is going to get paid like a superstar whether we like it or not. He’s not performing.

      Jokic, that you guys despise so much, has played his entire career with Nelson, Mudiay or Murray and is a lot more efficient than him. This team is using KP as a tall Melo and he’s playing like tall Melo.

    44. djphan

      we are 22nd in assist / to ratio… 25th in turnover percentage… our pick n roll numbers aren’t good either… (6th to last)

      there’s only so many offensive sets you can try with guys who can’t put it on the floor…. that’s why the team has been forcefeeding kp…. and now beasley…. if you have to run iso’s who’s going to take the ball? lee? jack? mcdermott? kanter?

      kp does need to make better decisions and just not settle for shooting over a smaller defender… he also needs to get some calls… but it’s clear that he’s not suited for over 30% usage… at least yet…

      ppl should calm down…. i dunno what you guys were expecting out of this season.. basically everyone has played up to or surpassed expectations….

    45. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Not having a point guard who can create offense is definitely hurting Porzingis’ efficiency more than anybody else’s. When you don’t have a guard to get into the teeth of a defense consistently, you end up giving the ball to your most talented player and telling him “hey go get a bucket.” You’re not going to turn to McBuckets or Lee or Kanter to do that, so their efficiency won’t really be affected and may even be helped because the defense is designed to stop the guy who will give you 30 if you don’t send him a double. Melo was the best offensive player on that 2013 team but Felton created the offense. I’m not saying we should expect KP’s TS% to skyrocket once we get a guard to break a defense down, but I am saying that not having a point guard, along with his strength issues, are obviously having a negative affect on his TS%. Maybe next season he’ll come back at 250 pounds and have a guard who will live at the teeth of a defense and he’ll post that .650 TS% we know he’s capable of doing. Or maybe he’ll lose weight during the season and only play well when Jen Selter is in the building.

    46. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      This blog is insufferable sometimes.

      You’re talking about the abundance of mouth-breathing, raging homer fanboy stupidity, right?

      We’re in a good place regardless of where we draft this year or what our record is.

      I’m ready for this shit. Bring it on–

      Its going to end up being better than it was predicted

      Vegas line: 30.5, EWL 37 wins (wow!)

      Melo is gone

      Agreed.

      we got decent assets in return for him (which no one thought possible)

      Yes, but Kanter is largely responsible for the worse draft slot and he’s almost certainly gone after this year, if not sooner.

      and we have all our picks going forward.

      Miraculously.

      Cap space will become available in due time and the young players will get better.

      (1) The Knicks are at $95M committed next year including player options. Maybe Kanter and O’Quinn opt out (clearly the two best players on the team) and that number goes down to about $72M. That’s enough for a max player, but again, you’re just making up for the loss of the two best players on the roster.

      If KOQ and Kanter are gone in 2019-20, Frank’s option is picked up, and Porzingis is re-signed to the megamax deal he’s going to ask for, the Knicks will be at or over the cap. So, uh, where’s that cap space, again?

      (2) This is this Knicks. Keep young players? Why would they do that?

      We’ve played without our second(or third) best player for half the season now.

      Counterargument: Tim Hardaway, Jr. should never have been the 2nd- or 3rd-best player in the first place. I’m not saying that because of injuries; I’m saying it because he’s still bad value on that contract.

    47. Hubert

      When you don’t have a guard to get into the teeth of a defense consistently, you end up giving the ball to your most talented player and telling him “hey go get a bucket.” You’re not going to turn to McBuckets or Lee or Kanter to do that, so their efficiency won’t really be affected

      and

      Here we go. Its not an excuse. Its reality. None of the guys you mention are supposed to play as big of a role on this team or in the offense as KP.

      Again: Michael Beasley is having a very good year, and we do all those things to him.

      Forget Kanter, O’Quinn, or anyone else. Michael Beasley plays the same role on offense as KP and is doing around the same or better.

    48. swiftandabundant

      I’m also not trying to absolve KP of anything but people need to seriously chill the F out about this. He’s gonna learn how to read the double teams and pass out of it better but it isn’t something that happens magically over night.

    49. JK47

      The Knicks are not “ruining” KP. This is part of his growth and development!

      Nah. He’s playing basketball in just about the dumbest way possible, and this is not “developing” him in any way.

      You guys talk about patience and a real rebuild but the truth is very few of you actually have the stomach for it.

      Well, the problem is this isn’t a real rebuild. This is a half-assed rebuild. The way you really rebuild is to collect assets, to turn your useless veterans into pieces that can help you in the future. We haven’t done that. So it’s a real fucking slow rebuild. I mean, it’s too late at this point to do a real one so it is what it is.

    50. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      I don’t care if they choose to make some moves that hurt the short term and help the long term, but if they totally trash the team by giving away assets like O’Quinn, Lee, and Beasley, I’ll know they don’t know what they are doing.

      This still a 3-5 year plan to contention.

      We need patience. We have to WIN trades and keep improving and rolling up our assets, not just make trades trying to fulfill delusions of finding a star with the 8 pick instead of the 12 pick.

    51. JK47

      It’s hard to WIN trades when all you have is a bunch of dreck that nobody wants.

      I’m convinced that don’t nobody want Kyle O’Quinn, Courtney Lee or our other vets. I’d like to be proven wrong. Trade deadline is coming up, let’s see how we do.

    52. Totes McGoats is so G he pours Pepsi in a Coke bottle

      *deep sigh*
      It has taken some time, but I am now:
      1. Starting to believe Phil was right about
      2. Starting to believe that the best he’ll ever be is the 2nd best player on the team because of reason #1.

      I still believe KP will become a great player, but I am tempering my expectations because of the things I think Phil was right about. The legs. I believe it was Phil who compared his skinny to KG’s skinny and likened KG’s legs to tree trunks. I may be wrong about the person who quoted it, but I remember the quote. Sometimes I think we underestimate just how important legs are in the game of basketball. Not just for running and jumping. Moreso are they strong enough to handle the rigors of carrying the load. Taking contact, optimizing the lateral movement, moving through traffic, etc. I’m just sayin..maybe Phil wasn’t crazy.

      The second reason is troubling. I really don’t see a better player on the horizon to bump KP back to #2. Bagley could be that guy, but it would require KP to play center. And if he doesn’t have the legs to be a top option, 7’3″ 245 PF, he won’t make it at C. He’ll still be very good, but if he’s consistently dealing with leg issues at PF, it can only get worse at C.

      This is a tough catch 22 because the kid is extremely talented.

    53. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Beasley is an excellent scorer (who doesn’t play half the defense KP plays, btw) and has been that his whole life. This is KP’s first year ever as the lead guy. He also has weight and anemia issues that I’m hoping get resolved by next season because if he can’t stay in shape he can’t be a #1 guy. KP is definitely playing shitty ball but I still have faith he’ll be the defense killer we need him to be in time. He just needs to keep the weight on.

    54. Totes McGoats is so G he pours Pepsi in a Coke bottle

      I share the same hope @59.
      The kid’s skillset at that size with his athleticism for a player that long is something the league is not prepared for. I think he and Anthony Davis are in the same boat- they just can’t stay healthy enough thus far for their teams to fully take advantage of their considerable ability

    55. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      I’m convinced that don’t nobody want Kyle O’Quinn, Courtney Lee or our other vets. I’d like to be proven wrong. Trade deadline is coming up, let’s see how we do.

      I’m close to sure there are a teams that would like add them for their playoff run. If we were looking to tweak our team and fill a need, it would be no problem. But we are trying to get a pick or young player back. That’s more of a problem because then it’s got to be a team that thinks they have a shot at a title and are willing to sacrifice a little in the long term to improve their bench or starting lineup now. We may have to take back a young player that could just as easily be a bust. It’s going to be hard to get back similar quality and get youth for free. If we do, that’s a WIN.

    56. Jack Bauer

      Meanwhile they signed Hardaway Jr to that ridiculous contract and he’s been out for what feels like over 2 months now. Did he have a limb amputated or something?

      I am completely down with the tank. Play the young guys, see how they do, get a better draft slot. It is clearly the smart choice now. The ball is in your court Mills & Perry, don’t fuck it up

      Of course Hornacek is coaching to save his job, wouldn’t you?

    57. thenoblefacehumper

      ppl should calm down…. i dunno what you guys were expecting out of this season.. basically everyone has played up to or surpassed expectations….

      This is a straw man argument that more than a few people seem to be making. Exactly zero people are upset about the Knicks’ win total. It’s right around where it was projected, maybe a bit higher (which looks like it’s quickly correcting itself).

      What is upsetting is the complete and utter lack of good signs for the future. Porzingis has become tall Melo. Hernangomez, who looked like possibly our best future piece last season, has been glued to the bench in what amounts to an absurd waste of a rookie deal year. Ntilikina has probably been better than expected, so that’s nice. THJ was all over the place and then injured.

      The wins have largely come from guys who probably have no future here in Lee, KOQ, Kanter (not sure what the plan is here but pretty hard to imagine a scenario in which he’s here long-term), and even Jack to some extent.

      So we have a core that probably would’ve gotten us to 25 wins or so on its own and add, what, the 12th pick? That’s really shitty, there’s no way around it.

    58. Brian Cronin

      The absolute moronic thing is that we absolutely, as a blog, do support a patient rebuild. We were all rooting for losses like crazy back in 2014-15. You don’t do that if you’re an impatient bunch. This is not that. This has been just repeated stupidity for the last four years. Perry was put into a shitty position from Phil’s terrible GM tenure and Mills’ awful brief tenure as the sole decision-maker, so sure, there’s still some hope that Perry won’t be awful, since it is true that it could just be that no one wants to give the Knicks anything worthwhile for O’Quinn or Lee (which, of course, speaks to how shitty the Courtney Lee contract is that no one will give you anything worthwhile for him – it ain’t a valuable contract when he doesn’t help you contend, fucks up your win curve and other teams will only give you their shit for him), so maybe Perry will end up doing a good job once he starts making all of the decisions. It seems doubtful, but hey, it’s possible!

      If Perry starts making good moves, we’ll compliment the good moves. We’re not looking to criticize. They have been doing dumb shit for years, so we have been criticizing them for years. It’s a really simple scenario – don’t do dumb shit and we won’t criticize you for doing dumb shit.

    59. Bruno Almeida

      Precisely what thenoblefacehumper and Brian said. I can take 5 years of a patient, well done rebuild. What I can’t take is a lineup with Jarrett Jack, O’Quinn, Lance Thomas and Michael Beasley playing crunch time minutes and calling it a rebuild.

      The Knicks are NOT rebuilding, they’re playing terrible veterans ahead of youngsters because they offer a slightly better chance at winning.

      Stop using this lame argument that we are as bad/good as expected, come on, we’ve argued this many times. It’s not because you expected a fucking catastrophe that you shouldn’t be pissed when it actually happens.

    60. JK47

      Not only is the team winning pointless games thanks to the contributions of players who are not going to be here long-term, they’re also playing dumb basketball. It’s all iso-KP until he has to go to the bench and then it’s iso-Beasley. The team is dead last in the league in 3-point attempt rate and they’re one of the worst in the league at allowing 3-point attempts. They’re playing an obsolete, outdated brand of basketball. They’re winning enough games here and there to lower their draft position and there is no “character building” or “learning curve” or any of that hoo-hah going on. They win every now and then because Beas gets the hot hand. They are not really learning anything or building on anything.

      You have to just have a good sense of gallows humor and stand back and admire how irritating this franchise is.

    61. ClashFan

      @64
      I largely agree. Don’t forget Beasley, too, who has probably caused the Knicks to have an extra win or two at this point.

      I still hope that management will see the light soon. I said a long time ago that if the Knicks were still playing the vets big minutes well into January, that something has gone wrong.

      We’re getting real close to that point. I can understand Hornacek and management wanting to “win” as long as right around .500. But the vets played BIG minutes last night and still lost to the Bulls for the third time, so let’s free Willy, Burke, and Dotson.

    62. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      At the very least, Beasley is on a $2M deal when he’s playing more like a $10M player (i.e. scoring a ton of points on league-average efficiency). I’m actually happy for him, considering his usual label as a bust-turned-journeyman. But that’s Knicksy: being happy that the FO isn’t paying top-dollar on a long-term contract to a guy because he’s scoring pointzz.

      But here I sit, readying myself for the Porzingis extension and the goddamn maelstrom this board will be when he gets it…

    63. domiknick

      Some quotes from Hornacek via an Al Iannazzone article:

      Hornacek believes the two should work better together and that Porzingis should be able to get some corner three-pointers if they’re funneling the ball into Beasley.

      Soon they will be adding another scorer in Hardaway, so that will affect rotations and lineups. But Hornacek acknowledged that the Knicks have gotten “stagnant” offensively, and they’re forcing it to Porzingis and Beasley too much.

      Hornacek said they’re not swinging the ball enough from side to side, and it’s led to too many “predictable” possessions.

      “It’s sticking on one side,” Hornacek said. “Even if we come off a pick-and-roll on one side we’re dribbling it back and trying to throw it into that mismatch. We’ve got to move the ball on. We’re going to continue working on that. That opens it up for everybody. When you become predictable on where the ball’s going to go the defense can lock in.

      “Sometimes they see a mismatch and they see Mike or KP, they have a guard on them. Guys are trying to play smart and say, ‘Hey that’s our mismatch.’ But it is getting us a little stagnant. That’s fine for us to do occasionally. But we can’t do that every time there’s a switch.”

    64. 2FOR18, understands math

      Wow Mr gravity took 19 shots last night, scoring 15 points with 1 rebound and no other stats. That seems impossible

    65. ptmilo

      Sure the Knicks are still a shit show, but this blog has suddenly gotten a lot worse at analyzing basketball. It’s like all the better posters got together and agreed to forget that basketball players don’t DH. Early in the year Enes Kanter had a high BPM/WS and people were talking about him getting $100 million and improving on defense when the guy was plainly playing the same horrible defense (through no fault of his own) he always has, and is/was much more likely to opt in than get $100 milllion dollars or dogecoin or anything else.

      KP meanwhile has taken a moderately bad step on offense as the main option, adding all his incremental fga from 10-23 feet unassisted shots, which is a losing gambit. And yes it sucks that he is not smart enough / aligned enough to realize it and hasn’t improved his very subpar passing. But his rim defense is notably improved; he’s contesting more shots, affecting opponents more and fouling less despite having to play a lot of minutes with horrific defenders like Jack and Kanter. He is anchoring an average NBA defense with a below average supporting cast. The tall melo heckles are just a big fucking advertisement that defense has been written out of the script just because. Lauri Markkanen, one of the worse defensive bigs in recent history, was a better rookie than KP because tall melo.

      Instead people are literally saying that Michael Beasley is our best player. This is a guy who makes more mistakes per minute on defense than any player we’ve had in ten years besides Rose and Derrick Williams. His defense very likely offsets his decent efficiency, high usage, high turnover, meh passing offense, and he is in no posssible sense our best player or even a good player.

      There are lots of reasons to be negative about the state of the team and KP. It will only get worse bc the idea that we are stealth tanking is unfortunately stupid. But if Beasley is good and KP is tall Melo than defense has died at Knickerblogger.

    66. wetbandit

      Things I would like to see:
      1. Trading a vet for any asset geared for the future. Don’t care if it’s Courtney Lee for a late 1st and some crappy 2 yr contract. Cost of keeping vets is too high.

      2. More set plays- KP rolling for a dunk/lay-in, McDermott or Lee for a corner 3 after a play of some kind.

      3. KP must pass more and not shoot contested 20 footers. Everyone else stands around a la Melo, so it must be difficult for him to find a shooter, but this is all on coach.

      4. More of some variation of Frank/Hardaway/McDermott/KP/Kanter. This would be a young and fun lineup to watch. I don’t get the aversion to playing Frank/Timmy or Frank/KP. It almost never happens. (Frank/TH/McDermott/KP/O’Quinn is the closest we have in the top 20 lineups, and it’s the best non-garbage lineup on there)

    67. hoolahoop

      If KD replaced KP on the knicks, they’d have another four wins. He’d be taking a lot of bad shots and he’d look like a shell of the player he is now. And he’d be getting bashed in this forum.
      Or, imagine Jason Tatum in KP’s role. The darling of last years draft wouldn’t be so darling.

      The knicks need to win, draft well, make good trades, and be disciplined not to trade good young talent for shiny flashy objects or hopeful projects.

    68. djphan

      What is upsetting is the complete and utter lack of good signs for the future.

      I think ppl are upset because of the losses…. this sort of vitriol towards kp and the rest of the knicks did not exist back when we were winning games…. and the temperature of this forum swings wildly when we win and lose… the roster hasn’t changed from the beginning of the year and if we’ve performed up to expectations… then what’s all this talk about a poor direction? again.. nothing changed….

      everyone wanted melo gone… it happened… and we got back kanter and mcdermott… i think it’s unanimous that everyone would probably do that deal again….

      we also got th2… and while it’s probably way less unanimous on doing that signing again… he at least looks promising and he’s also young….

      not playing wily seems like a mistake.. and i hate that also… but if we wind up getting something for kanter and/or koq then i would have gladly sat him down for a year to achieve that…. if we’re playing them to win a few more games then yea it’s a shitty move….

      we were always hamstrung by these contracts…. that’s a remnant of phil but even despite that there are some things to like and be optimistic about… i’m not being some pollyanna … if anyone has ever paid attention to my posts i am certainly not that… but just trying to have a reasonable perspective on all of this…. like if we wind up getting ok deals for lee, beasley, koq and/or kanter.. then our outlook shifts pretty dramatically…. i would at least wait until then to doom our franchise….

    69. JK47

      We were winning games because KP was playing like a superstar. Now he’s playing like a scrub, and we’re losing. That’s, uh, a lot less exciting. He has been stinking out the joint for quite a long time, with a sub-.500 TS% over a rather large sample size. His WS48 has plummeted. He started out great like usual, but his game has been in the fucking toilet since mid-November.

      Dude has a .493 TS% and a pitiful .437 eFG% since November 13.

    70. nicos

      Dude has a .493 TS% and a pitiful .437 eFG% since November 13.

      Not to mention an anemic (pun intended) 10.8 TRB % and a 6.8 assist %. He’s not even tall Melo- he’s tall Dion Waiters. If he got gassed after three weeks of being the first option then unless you can find something genuinely wrong with him that’s treatable you can’t max the guy. Fading in March- okay that’s probably correctable but fading in mid-November? Yes Hardaway and a better point guard would help but how much? His terrible rebounding (his rebound rate is a whole lot closer to Lance Thomas’s than it is to Kanter’s or KOQ’s) gives back some of what he gives you in terms of rim defense and for the last two solid months he’s been flat out bad- worse than Melo ever was- offensively. I’m really hoping he gets some kind of second wind but it don’t look good.

    71. BigBlueAL

      @73 I’ve mentioned this before, when you hear or read Hornacek after games and practices he seems to understand exactly what the problems are offensively. But unfortunately he seems to have no clue how to coach the players to rectify the problems. He seems to me to be a very smart basketball person but not a very good coach. Maybe he’d be better suited in the front office instead of the coaching staff??

    72. Bruno Almeida

      @80

      That’s what I don’t get about the criticism of the criticism that’s going on here.

      Yes, people were excited and praising KP because he was shooting extremely well. Then, yes, things were looking promising. Now they’re looking like shit again, so obviously people are going to be negative and pissed, what’s so wrong about it? We’re going to react to the production the team shows on the court, and right now it looks about as hopeless as it has looked in the last few years.

      It might get better with Hardaway, Burke or whatever, I have no idea, but there are clear worrying signs and we’re obviously jaded after decades of bullshit.

    73. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      @65

      With all due respect, this is not a patient group.

      1. Three games into the season there were widespread calls for Hornacek to be fired.

      2. When we started to win some games people were getting euphoric that we had a coach that was free to run his own system instead of the triangle.

      3. Now that we are losing again, Hornacek should be fired, everyone over 25 should be dumped wholesale, and we were idiots for winning games mostly because KP was playing great, not because we have Lee and O’Quinn.

      I’m not saying I’m not guilty of allowing short term developments to influence my view. Your opinions should change as new information comes in. But with some exceptions this is a manic depressive group. I also think people don’t understand the realities of rebuilding a team, the probabilities of certain variations being successful and why, the probabilities of certain variations being unsuccessful and why, and the real life issues of managing a basketball organization and dealing with finances, owners, agents, players, etc..

      It’s not fantasy sports, but that’s how almost all fans view the game.

      All you have to do is dump everybody, no one will impacted by changes in the bottom line, there will be no repercussions from players or their agents in the future, and of course everyone we draft will be a star so we’ll turn it around quickly. That’s not even fantasy sports. It’s a pure fantasy.

      There’s absolutely no disaster with how we are positioned. We have 1 bad contract (noah) and couple that we added in the off season that hurt a little. But we are in good shape. We have some young players, all our picks, assets that can be moved, and a ton of flexibility in 2-3 years when KP and Frank start peaking.

    74. JK47

      I also think people don’t understand the realities of rebuilding a team, the probabilities of certain variations being successful and why, the probabilities of certain variations being unsuccessful and why, and the real life issues of managing a basketball organization and dealing with finances, owners, agents, players, etc..

      And then there are other people who actually think Phil Jackson knew what the fuck he was doing.

      YMMV.

    75. geo

      bruno – are sure you wasn’t born in new york…you sure sound like a new yorker :-)

      knicks may be just be lucky they’re on the road a bunch right now…no doubt if they keep playing this way they’re gonna start hearing it more from the crowd too…

    76. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      Apparently, Tom Thibodeau was not crazy to short circuit the T-Wolve’s unsuccessful attempt to rebuild almost exclusively via the draft. It failed despite getting a bunch of high lottery picks and players like like Towns, Wiggins, Dunn, Rubio, and Lavine. Instead he brought in Teague (29), Butler (28) and Gibson (32) to go with 21 year old Towns.

      Now the T-Wolves are very good, Towns will be playing in some huge playoff games for the next 3-4 years and developing faster as a result, and he’ll worry about replacing Gibson later.

    77. Bruno Almeida

      @86

      It’s weird cause I was born in the chillest city you’ll ever see, but I guess New York really got me after all those years of rooting for the Knicks!

    78. Bruno Almeida

      @87

      Come on strato… he had Towns, who is a legit star, had Wiggins as a second young piece already (not that he’s good, but for the “upside”) and managed to get Butler.

      If you tell me the Knicks can trade any non Porzingis player + the 7th pick for Jimmy Butler, I would accept it instantly, specially if KP had shown the same offensive excellence as Towns already.

    79. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      And then there are other people who actually think Phil Jackson knew what the fuck he was doing.

      My views on Phil are clear and they are same now as they were at the time he made his major deals.

      1. He was dealt a horrible hand to start in not having 2 1st round picks in his 1st 3 years and problem personalities like JR Smith, Felton, and possibly even Shumpert as key components of the team. (not to mention that Chandler did not want to be part of a rebuild and wanted out).

      2. He slowly cleaned house, got rid of problems, tanked, and got us Porzingis.

      3. He made a mistake bringing Melo back, but the idea that he could have moved Melo without repercussions and got a haul for him is pure fantasy. He would have gotten Boozer, something good, and endless ill will from the press, fans, and ownership.

      4. The Rose move on it’s own merits was a non event because we got the cap space back the next year for his failed experiment and attempt to keep Melo happy. He made a mistake giving Noah 4 years. He should have stayed with Lopez and filled a need with the available cap space.

      5. He stole Willy in a great trade (though we still need to see that come to fruition)

      6. He made a very good pick in Frank.

      7. He handled cap space well (other than Lopez) by bringing in filler free agents (who were the only players willing to play for NY) on short contracts that kept our flexibility (including space coming into this year that we misused by overpaying fro THJ and Baker)

      8. He didn’t make any foolish trades with 1st round picks.

      9. He left us in very good position coming into this year (though we blew it a little).

      All in all I’d say he was (is) a quirky hippie eccentric with a big ego that hates the way the game is being played now, does not relate well with young players and the media (though who can), wasn’t a great GM, but was a lot better than the trashing he gets here and everywhere else given the hand he…

    80. thenoblefacehumper

      Apparently, Tom Thibodeau was not crazy to short circuit the T-Wolve’s unsuccessful attempt to rebuild almost exclusively via the draft. It failed despite getting a bunch of high lottery picks and players like like Towns, Wiggins, Dunn, Rubio, and Lavine. Instead he brought in Teague (29), Butler (28) and Gibson (32) to go with 21 year old Towns.

      Yeah, all we have to do is get someone to trade us a superstar for a laughably insufficient package!

      In all seriousness though, while I’d be ecstatic if the Knicks were as good as the Wolves just because it’s been too damn long, the Wolves are still in cap hell with a team that probably doesn’t win a single championship if this season occurred in 100 parallel universes. It’s not exactly a model to emulate. It is worth noting, however, that they got the player that made any of this possible specifically by out-tanking us.

    81. Stratomatic says "Maybe Beasley should be the Knicks #1 Scoring Option"

      @89 @91

      My point was not that we can or should do the same thing as Minny. We are probably 2 years behind Minny because we didn’t have a 1st round pick for 2 years of our rebuild under Phil. My point is that it’s foolish to insist on rebuilding exclusively through the draft or dismissing players over a certain age when yous star is so young. Minny’s attempts to rebuild exclusively via the draft failed for years and years (as have many other teams that tries the same thing). The 76ers pulled off the greatest intentional and unintentional tank in sports history, they are years into it, and they are barely better than us despite all the mistakes we made. Not that I wouldn’t rather be them, but that was a once in a lifetime tank that changed the rules and got the man behind it fired.

    82. chrisk06811

      did you guys see the video of Jalen Brown whispering “I’m so sick of you” to Kyrie during Q&A after the game today? No way Ron Baker would ever do that to Ramon Sessions.

    83. thenoblefacehumper

      1. He was dealt a horrible hand to start in not having 2 1st round picks in his 1st 3 years and problem personalities like JR Smith, Felton, and possibly even Shumpert as key components of the team. (not to mention that Chandler did not want to be part of a rebuild and wanted out).

      David Griffin has said Phil passed on a first round pick because the Cavs were willing to take on JR Smith’s relatively small salary that he wound up opting out of anyway. That means he badly bungled this one, as was par for the course.

      2. He slowly cleaned house, got rid of problems, tanked, and got us Porzingis.

      Not sure what you mean by he “cleaned house.” I mean, he fired Mike Woodson I guess, but who else? He also badly wanted to get the 8th seed the season we wound up winning 17 games. He did seem to accept that we had to tank at a certain point, but I mean, that’s kind of a low bar considering we started something like 5-40.

      3. He made a mistake bringing Melo back, but the idea that he could have moved Melo without repercussions and got a haul for him is pure fantasy. He would have gotten Boozer, something good, and endless ill will from the press, fans, and ownership.

      It was widely reported at the time that the Bulls would’ve given up at least one first rounder to facilitate that sign-and-trade. If he was making moves based on what fans would say to him on Twitter afterwards, you’re pretty much conceding he was a shitty GM.

      4. The Rose move on it’s own merits was a non event because we got the cap space back the next year for his failed experiment and attempt to keep Melo happy. He made a mistake giving Noah 4 years. He should have stayed with Lopez and filled a need with the available cap space.

      Don’t even know where to start with this. To be continued…

    84. ptmilo

      You’re going to be hard pressed to find anyone here saying Thibs was crazy to add a top 15 player in his 20s to another top 15 player in his 20s for Dunn and LaVine. Nor will you find anyone disturbed about adding a fairly valued vet like Gibson on a 2 year deal to a team with two top 15 players.

      On the other hand Thibs has made mistakes that will hurt Minnesota badly. His team is extremely thin and will have trouble improving giving two overpaid players multi-year deals in Wiggins and Teague. He had a golden opportunity to trade Wiggins and get better depth value for his $19 million for Teague. They could have a true contender but instead have a fragile team with two awesome players that will be very hard to improve before Butler leaves or ages.

    85. Bruno Almeida

      @92

      It’s foolish once you have the star and you find a really good deal. Without finding Towns with the 1st overall pick, what would they have done? Without Lavine, Dunn (13th and 5th overall picks) and the 7th pick available they don’t even get Butler.

      I think the Wolves are much more of a story of success through gathering assets (and using the draft to do so) than anything else.

    86. thenoblefacehumper

      4. The Rose move on it’s own merits was a non event because we got the cap space back the next year for his failed experiment and attempt to keep Melo happy. He made a mistake giving Noah 4 years. He should have stayed with Lopez and filled a need with the available cap space.

      Jerian Grant has looked like a perfectly decent (and young) point guard, which is better than anything we have at the moment. Also, how is completely wasting an NBA season in a stupid attempt to keep the mediocre player you re-signed to the biggest contract in the sport a “non-event?”

      5. He stole Willy in a great trade (though we still need to see that come to fruition)

      Fair!

      6. He made a very good pick in Frank.

      We really have no clue about this yet.

      7. He handled cap space well (other than Lopez) by bringing in filler free agents (who were the only players willing to play for NY) on short contracts that kept our flexibility (including space coming into this year that we misused by overpaying fro THJ and Baker)

      This is the most wrong thing in your entire post. Philly got a fucking plethora of riches for less cap space than we used to sign Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams, who were with the team for one shitty year before leaving for nothing. How is that a remotely good use of cap space? Also, uh, Joakim Noah and Lance Thomas make a fuck ton of money, dude.

      8. He didn’t make any foolish trades with 1st round picks.

      Mmkay. This just kind of speaks to the hilariously low standards you set for him.

      9. He left us in very good position coming into this year (though we blew it a little).

      Not really. The Noah signing was far, far worse than the THJ signing.

    87. wetbandit

      I would rather watch a slide show of fish called Lance Thomas’s biggest catches than have another debate over Phil or Melo.

      Can’t we just discuss McDermott’s decent defense or Beasley’s half season trade value or even Frank’s undervalue in a points-based system given his defense, rebounds, assists, steals, and general intelligence?

    88. Totes McGoats is so G he pours Pepsi in a Coke bottle

      I gotta say this about Hornacek. Right now he’s not the best-set-the-world-on-fire-coach, but I do think he’s a bright basketball mind who will make better adjustments with more experience. The last time we had a relative NBA coaching neophyte with this much acumen was JVG. We stuck with him and he became a cult fave. I say that to say this: Hornacek’s young (in NBA coaching experience), and for much of his coaching career he really hasn’t had at least average talent all the way around. It may be a little short-sighted to imply that he is not the right coach to lead this team. Much was forced onto his staff, and he hasn’t really had anything close to autonomy as a NBA coach. If Perry can get him 2 more long athletes and 2 shooters while retaining McBuckets and Willy, that would easily be the best roster Hornacek has ever coached. But that’s gonna be hard because Noah and Lee.

    89. latke

      Kanter would not be that hard to trade as long as you’re willing to take back a bad contract. He is a useful player, and if a playoff team could replace a worse contract with Kanter for the cost of a pick/prospect, I think they would.

      * Like Tristan Thompson + Cedi Osman + future 2nd rounder for Kanter could work
      * The Wizards could offer Mahinmi + a pick
      * The Wolves could offer Gorgui Dieng + a pick

      These are all moves though that would make the Knicks less competitive not just this year but for several years, and they haven’t been willing to make sacrifices like that in a long time, so I doubt Kanter goes anywhere.

    90. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      I can’t even with Trump. It’s too much.

      But nothing’s been proven, Owen. It’s all a lib’rul stretch and a fabrication. Alan Dershowitz, Owen. Um, duh?

    91. hoolahoop

      I can’t even with Trump. It’s too much.

      But nothing’s been proven, Owen. It’s all a lib’rul stretch and a fabrication. Alan Dershowitz, Owen. Um, duh?
      That sounds like a Trump endorsement. Say it ain’t so

    92. Bruno Almeida

      I’m just watching in horror as our own Trump rises in the polls, and I’m glad I can still flee to europe.

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