Knicks Morning News (2017.06.27)

  • [NYTimes] Russell Westbrook Wins M.V.P. at N.B.A. Awards
    (Tuesday, June 27, 2017 3:55:47 AM)

    Westbrook received the honor after a season in which he set a record with 42 triple-doubles.

  • [NYTimes] D’Angelo Russell, Happy for a Fresh Start, Is Ready to Lead the Nets His Way
    (Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:19:09 AM)

    Criticized by the Lakers executive Magic Johnson for not playing a greater role in Los Angeles, Russell said he would lead by example in Brooklyn.

  • [NYTimes] 8 Reasons the Big3 Might Succeed, and 6 Reasons It Might Fail
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 2:45:39 PM)

    Attendance at Barclays Center for the debut event in the professional three-on-three basketball league was promising, but the rosters were full of journeymen.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. All-Rookie Team Includes Four Foreign-Born Players
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 6:07:17 PM)

    Dario Saric and Malcolm Brogdon were unanimous selections to the first team.

  • [NY Newsday] Russell Westbrook named MVP at NBA Awards show
    (Tuesday, June 27, 2017 2:21:19 AM)

    Russell Westbrook’s historic NBA season culminated with him hoisting the Most Valuable Player trophy and breaking down on stage.

  • [NY Newsday] BIG3’s Kenyon Martin says Nets and Knicks fans ‘getting cheated’
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 9:42:19 PM)

    Kenyon Martin played for the Nets and Knicks and was not reluctant to express his opinions during either experience. Now that he is 39 and a mere alumnus of both franchises, he is not about to get shy.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Willy Hernangomez named to NBA All-Rookie First Team
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 3:56:45 PM)

    Knicks center Willy Hernangomez was named to the NBA All-Rookie First Team, as voted by the media covering the league.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks set Orlando summer league roster
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 3:52:28 PM)

    The Knicks will have some familiar faces on their summer league roster, and all three picks from last week’s draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ntilikina, Dotson among players on Knicks’ Summer League roster
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 3:40:38 PM)

    PG Frank Ntilikina, who the Knicks selected with the 8th overall pick during last week’s NBA Draft, will be on the team’s Summer League roster.

  • [SNY Knicks] Kenyon Martin thinks Knicks fans are ‘getting cheated’
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 3:10:01 PM)

    Former Knicks F Kenyon Martin thinks that Knicks fans are ‘getting cheated,’ per Newsday’s Neil Best.

  • [SNY Knicks] Undrafted rookie Canyon Barry thinks he fits well in Knicks’ triangle
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 1:52:05 PM)

    Undrafted rookie G Canyon Barry believes his game would be a perfect fit for the Knicks triangle offense, per Mike Vorkunov of The New York Times.

  • [SNY Knicks] Willy Hernangomez named to NBA’s All-Rookie First Team
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 12:51:14 PM)

    Knicks C Willy Hernangomez was named to the NBA’s 2016-17 All-Rookie First Team.

  • [SNY Knicks] Marshall Plumlee to play for Knicks in Summer League
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 11:30:28 AM)

    Marshall Plumlee will play for the Knicks in this year’s Summer League.

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ Willy Hernangomez lavished with NBA rookie honor
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 10:34:48 AM)

    The disaster that was the Knicks’ 2016-17 season actually had some bright spots. Honest. One of them was the play of rookie Willy Hernangomez, who was recognized Monday as a member of the NBA’s All-Rookie first team. Hernangomez, a 6-foot-11 center, led all qualified rookies with a 52.9 field-goal percentage while averaging 8.2 points and…

  • [NYDN] Jackson might want Anthony gone, but ball is in Melo’s court
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 9:33:46 PM)

    Either Phil Jackson forgot that Carmelo Anthony holds all the cards, or he simply doesn’t care.

  • [NYDN] Spurs exec, former Knick Monty Williams given Sager Strong Award
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 9:27:17 PM)

    Spurs executive Monty Williams carried on Craig Sager’s legacy Monday night.

  • [NYDN] Hernangomez earns First Team All-Rookie selection for Knicks
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 4:23:42 PM)

    For the fifth time in the last seven years, the Knicks have a First Team All-Rookie selection.

  • [NYDN] Ron Harper believes in Phil Jackson, is in favor of his moves
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 12:07:16 PM)

    Ron Harper, knows a thing or two about winning NBA titles under Phil Jackson, has faith in the Knicks president.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony posts La La birthday photo on Instagram
    (Monday, June 26, 2017 10:26:56 AM)

    Please don’t La La-leave me.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    138 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.27)”

    1. Seriously dude, if you think Carmelo is going to bring a serious haul for Carmelo six years and a half years after that trade, you’re delusional.

      Is his trade value down? Yes. Is it greater than cutting him and having to eat his salary for 2 (or stretched) years with no assets in return? Hell yes.
      We should get a pick and serviceable players to offset the salary back.
      Nail his ass to the bench!

    2. Nailing his ass to the bench would create a greater distraction than anything else the Knicks choose to do. Give him a strict minutes limit at 30, since we’ve seen over the past 3-4 years that he doesn’t have the tank to play productively more than that nigh-to-night and be professional about it. As much as I don’t believe Melo came close to giving a single solitary shit last season, Phil is the one that paid him and gave him the NTC so he has to handle it in the best way possible at this point. If he’s desperate to trade him, giving him the Marbury treatment ensures that nobody in the league would ever do so.

      Shit, we should all be praying he has a great season next year so that he opts out of his contract in search of one last multi-year payday.

    3. I’m not a fan of Melo’s game, but there’s no reason he can’t thrive next season if we can get a real pg.

      A Rubio/Ntilikina/Melo/KP/Hernangomez lineup is good enough to compete. He’d be surrounded by better defenders and have 2 guards to get him the ball in good positions.

      If he has any professional pride, he can do a decent job in that lineup/system.

    4. If Minnesota wants to move Rubio to clear space for a PG and add a backup wing the Knicks should offer Justin Holiday in a S&T if that will help Thibs entice Jrue to play there. That would be an almost ideal scenario for the Knicks.

    5. I’m pretty clear we’re a worse team without Melo. 20ppg guys who can create their own shot are rare and valuable to winning even if they don’t defend – see IT4 in Boston. In the last couple of years we’re 2-18 without him.

      I’m not sure that’s the point. You’ll hear me say this time and again on this blog, but what I want to see is what’s the multi-year strategy towards a ring? We know for certain Melo won’t be on the next really good knicks team. In the meantime he wins us a few extra games, while demoing terrible defensive habits to the young guys and preventing KP from shouldering the lead offensive load.

      Personally, I can tolerate the argument that we need to try to be competitive to isntill good habits and try to get KP some playoff experience early on (even if personally I’m more for one more year of real tanking). So I can love with the few extra wins. But the habits and slowing KPs development are unacceptable.

      So I’m fine with playing him as a sixth man or secondary offensive threat with the ball primarily running through KP, as long as we hold him fully accountable and bench him like a rookie if he doesn’t try on D. I’d also be fine with a buyout, preferably in return for him waiving his player option (if he can do that) so we’re only on the hook for a year. My preferred option is a trade for any combo of cap space and picks, even if meagre. The two things I think would be unacceptable are waiving him and taking the hit over 5 years or trading him for bad contracts or bad attitudes or both.

    6. The other thing is it may simply be better to hold on and try to trade him in Feb. If he plays ok, the chances are decent someone thinks he’ll push them over the hump at the deadline – and it means he only has to be away for three months so he might be more willing. He can opt out at year and and go play for the nets, Philly or Washington on a cheap deal if his primary motivation is to be near NY. We wouldn’t get much but we might get a late first rounder along with someone else’s expiring deal, and we’d have the certainty of the cap space in 2018.

    7. I thought we’d be a worse team without Melo until last season when he decided not to move on defense, not rebound and continue to jack up shots without hesitation. The Philly game last year where he got baited into hero ball by Justin fucking Anderson was one of the most embarrassing things I’ve ever seen. A vet getting baited by 2nd year scrub, trying to prove a point by jacking up everything he touched, failing miserably and getting burnt by said scrub on D including on the game winning bucket.

      If he’s here, he’s here and I think there are rosters we can assemble which minimize his flaws, resulting in us being a better team, but he should be on a strict minutes limit and if he starts going into elbow ISO jab step chuck mode then Hornacek has to have the balls to pull him. We can talk about shitty culture, but that endures when the coach doesn’t hold his star players accountable, but tries to show his muscle with guys like Kuz and Willy.

    8. I’m actually ok with either Rose and no Melo or Melo and no Rose. What I think Phil should do is stretch or buyout Noah and convince him to be an assistant coach on this staff and let they young bigs we have keep their spots. That means keeping KOQ, Plumlee, Kornet, KP, Willy, and Hayes. I think Hayes will make NDour expendable unless NDour improves his offense. Then Phil has to decide between Rose & Melo. Melo is hard to move so it will most likely mean he stays- and that’s ok. If we get a lead guard(in addition to Ntilikina) who doesn’t need to score to be successful but can score when needed, and who also keeps KP involved- I think the team will be fine this season. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ntilikina starts at the 1 this season. I think the biggest issue the team had last season was having both Rose & Melo. When your highest usage and most accomplished players aren’t buying into the system, and in in Rose’s case being vocal about his displeasure for the system, it makes it hard for the team to band together and play together. Rose has the ball all the time and is the supposed leader on the floor being the PG, so you don’t want him doing that. Melo you can live with because there’s more room for a player with his skillset in this system than there is for a player with Rose’s skillset.

    9. Melo isn’t going anywhere. There is no way we stretch-waive Melo and there isn’t a realistic trade out there that paints a clear picture. It all depends on what goes on in Ohio and Los Angeles. If Blake and CP3 leave town, DeAndre Jordan then hits the trade market because he has a player option coming up which essentially makes him a one year rental. I can see a scenario where Love and Kyle O’Quinn go to LAC, Melo to Cleveland, and DJ heads to New York. I can also see a scenario where DJ gets sent to Cleveland straight up for Kevin Love, and the Knicks end up in a 3 team deal with Cleveland where Shumpert and Tristan Thompson go to a team like Houston and Melo goes to Cleveland. I guess we would get back Pat Beverley and a trophy or something.

      Obviously, the dream scenario would be to flip Melo in a 3 team deal where Love goes to LA, Melo to Cleveland, and NYK ends up with DJ (the best player in the trade). Then we flip Lee, O’Quinn and a heavily protected 1st (lottery protected that turns into a 2nd round pick or something) for Rubio, and then we throw all of our available cash at Joe Ingles or Jon Simmons. Wanna talk about a team built to win 55? How about Rubio, Ntilikina, Ingles/Simmons, Porzingis, and Jordan with Hernangomez coming off the bench.

      I’m officially rooting for 2 things this summer; I want CP3 and Blake to leave LAC for Houston, and for Chauncey Billups to take the Cleveland job. It makes the Melo trade more likely.

    10. Melo wants to be near his son. He is going nowhere. Better figure out a plan to use him as 6th man. The tough thing will be to justify any and all losing while the young guys learn to play the right way b/c media will pick at this strategy every single day, “Poor Melo, etc.”

    11. If Minnesota wants to move Rubio to clear space for a PG and add a backup wing the Knicks should offer Justin Holiday in a S&T if that will help Thibs entice Jrue to play there.

      Clever. I like it.

    12. Maybe Philly would be dumb enough to trade us some of their fringy prospects for Melo-Philly is pretty close

    13. Melo wants to be near his son. He is going nowhere. Better figure out a plan to use him as 6th man.

      You’re going to Duhon him?

      Also, is all of this “Melo’s not going anywhere” talk based on Frank Isola’s piece? People have to stop listening to Isola. You’re better off getting your rumors from Stephen A. Smith.

    14. There is no legitimate reason to waive Melo before the 2019 trade deadline. He has zero leverage. If he creates any problems, bench him. He can publicly seek a trade with the team’s blessing, or he can waive his NTC and trade kicker. If he doesn’t, fine, let him collect his checks and rot away the twilight of his career, either on the bench or away from the team. The team can go forward with or without him, just like the Knicks went forward without Marbury.

      I’m sure Melo is noticing that teams aren’e exactly clamoring for his services. I think that management should remind him of that whenever he gets upset with his current situation.

    15. @4. THAT’S A FINE PLAN. DO IT.

      If Minnesota wants to move Rubio to clear space for a PG and add a backup wing the Knicks should offer Justin Holiday in a S&T if that will help Thibs entice Jrue to play there. That would be an almost ideal scenario for the Knicks.

    16. I love the “Cleveland is no longer interested in trading for Melo” narrative that’s out there. Cleveland doesn’t even have a PBO right now.

    17. Off-the-court stuff aside, has anyone watched Dotson’s highlights? He looks like a prototypical 3 and D guy, especially the 3 part. The dude is unconscious as a shooter…50% on 2’s, 44% on 3’s at 7 attempts a game. 6’5″/205 lbs. with a 6’9″ wingspan and a 38 inch vertical. 8 rebs/40. I’m impressed.

    18. If we can’t trade Melo the best thing we can is let him play and be Melo. I admire him for wanting to stay with the Knicks. He may not be lebron but he is Melo. Still better than 10 or 20 or 30 players in the league.

    19. The Cavaliers are happy to just wait for a buyout and get Melo on the cheap.

      This is why you can’t let them think this is an option.

      I firmly believe the Cavs are willing to give up future draft picks for Melo. LeBron runs that team, and he doesn’t give a **** who they’re drafting in 2020. We can’t get the farm for Melo, but I do think we can get two future picks from Cleveland.

      if you think Carmelo is going to bring a serious haul for Carmelo six years and a half years after that trade, you’re delusional.

      LA gave up four future picks for an old Steve Nash. Brooklyn gave three firsts and a pick swap for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. It is not crazy to think to think someone will give us something of value for Melo (though I agree, it’s not going to be a “serious haul”). There is always a team that doesn’t give a shit what happens down the road, they just want to win now. (Usually it’s us, but I digress.)

      We have to play our cards right, though. And Phil is doing the opposite. Those teams pretended like it was hard to let those players go while secretly chuckling that they were getting value for garbage.

      Phil, on the other hand, is working to turn value into garbage, like he did with Chandler (and to a lesser degree, Shump & JR).

    20. Maybe Philly would be dumb enough to trade us some of their fringy prospects for Melo-Philly is pretty close

      Philly strikes me as potentially dumb. And they want to show their fans that they’re competing now, not processing.

    21. @19. I agree he’s better a top 40-ish player. Coach H ought to play him about 28 minutes per game and treat him honestly. Encourage him to play defense, rebound and pass the ball (he does not need encouragement to shoot); sit him when he breaks plays, limps back of defense or yells at refs. If that’s untenable for him, then propose a trade.

    22. I guess the only buyout talk is coming from Cleveland and not from NY or anyplace else, so it’s probably a silly thing for me to spend anymore time railing against.

      BUT:

      Phil made it clear to the Bulls in 2014 that he wasn’t going engage in S&T talks to facilitate Anthony’s exit. Is it really that hard to make it clear to Cleveland that he’s not going to foot the bill for Anthony to play the next two seasons for them?

    23. I’m with you all who do not want to just release Melo. The two year hit is too much. Now, if he were to take a significant cut in a buyout, fine. If he won’t allow a trade this year, and he opts in, then maybe cut him after the season.

      But yeah, don’t give him the Marbury treatment. Just don’t start him. That’ll bruise his ego, but let him come off the bench and shoot/score. Sit him during crunch time if he won’t play D. It would help if the Knicks were developing a young 3, but they really don’t have one unless someone impresses during summer league.

      There’s still a lot to happen in July around the league, so let’s just see what happens.

    24. Carmelo was 223rd in TS% this year. He’s not good.

    25. If he’s here, you have to suck it up and make him happy. A happy Melo isn’t a top 40 player anymore, but he’s better than 223rd. You need him to show it so we can get something.

    26. It would be amazing to watch Melo derail The Process.

      And I think a 2020 first rounder from the Cavs could be pretty juicy.

      But Melo going anywhere firmly in the believe-it-when-i-see-it bucket

    27. The Knicks don’t have a small forward on the roster better than Carmelo Anthony and that will continue to remain the case until he is on another team. There is no sense in benching him. Lance Thomas and Mindy Kuz are not NBA starters.

    28. @Z-Man

      Yeah, Dotson can really play. I broke down his numbers and there’s a lot there to suggest he has every chance to carve out a rotation spot for himself next year.

    29. I think minutes restrictions (under 30 a game) and pulling him when he doesn’t play on defense or is selfish and no always play him in crunch time if he’s not having a good game is the way to go. In a way Melo pulling the I don’t want to leave card now puts the leverage back in the GM and Horns court. You want to stay here? Fine. But you will play the way we want you to play and as much as we want you to play and you will like it. If the media gives us shit for doing this while we lose, Horns and Phil can simply say “well we lost the last 3 years with Melo playing heavy minutes so we don’t think it makes much of a difference.” Besides, Melo will play better if he plays less minutes a game.

    30. There is no legitimate reason to waive Melo before the 2019 trade deadline.

      He sucks and the Knicks would be better off without him.

      There’s a few reasons.

    31. They are stuck with Melo for now so instead of complaining about all of his faults we should switch it around. This is an NBA team with a professional experienced coach and a “genius” successful GM. I suggest it is on Horny and Phil to coax the best out of Melo. He does have his talents still and a reward vs. punishment based on his play should be the plan. Go ISO too much, have a seat on the bench. Play matador defense too many possessions, take a break and think about it sitting next to Hornacek. Pass the the ball and rebound, more minutes and public praise by the GM. Is that too much to ask of the leaders of an NBA team that has millions invested in its players? It doesn’t seem that complicated.

    32. It’s depressing as hell that there are still people who think melo is good. Some of the quotes in this thread…..I don’t know what to say.
      You know what’s going to happen? melo is going to put up some points this year, opt out, and re-sign with the Knicks for another 4 years to be a veteran mentor for all the young kids. Then in 2022 when we’re paying 38 year old melo 30 mil, we’ll all be back here speculating on who they’re taking with the 8th pick.

    33. Melo is bad. So bad, it will be hard to move him for anything worth our while.
      Rankings in league:
      TS%, 251st
      eFG%, 296th
      USG%, 21st
      PIE, 83rd
      AST%, 177th
      PER, 66th
      Max player with an NTC
      Tragic.

    34. He sucks and the Knicks would be better off without him.

      He averaged 23.5ppg last year.

      I’m not being ignorant of advanced stats. I’m just saying some GMs still are.

      Honestly, what do you think Magic Johnson values, his ppg or his ts%?

      Philly fired Hinkie. They’re enlightened?

    35. I dunno, I agree with either Rose or Melo can’t come back this season. If we’re stuck with Me7o, maybe he’ll play his ass off and boost his value enough for a deadline trade or something.

    36. melo is a top 40ish player, cause how many players in the league can score 23 points on 19 shots a game?
      FFS, people believe this in this day and age!
      Split his 19 shots amongst Porzingis, Lee, Willy and O’Quinn, put a strong defensive player at the 3,and your team will score more points and give up less points.

    37. It is not crazy to think to think someone will give us something of value for Melo (though I agree, it’s not going to be a “serious haul”).

      I think you missed the point. Jowles was trolling er. er made the point that the trade with Denver years ago didn’t turn out that bad because the Knicks players traded sucked. Then er said that we could trade Melo for some good players now. Not logical.

      Personally, I don’t think we can get much for him because of his age, trade kicker, and Phil’s open interest in trading him.

      I also don’t care if we get much for him. I want him gone, off the cap, off the team. A second round pick from the Cavs in 2020 would be fine.

    38. Note that 2 of the top six ROY vote getters this year were sent out by us in the Melo trade.

    39. Melo was pretty good in 2016 when the Knicks were running the triangle a lot more and they didn’t have a ball dominant guard on the roster.

      Melo was bad last year but so was everyone else in the starting 5. Nobody had an interest in passing when Joakim Noah went down, and predictably the team suffered in his absence. His contract was a mistake, but it was a bigger mistake to run an offense through Derrick Rose. Melo won’t be a great defender, but on a team where he has to make reads and be a part of the play making rather than just go get his, I think we can see him return to what he did in 2016.

      I’d prefer to see him traded, but I’m not about to sit here and discuss the merits of Kuz or Lance taking the starting job from Melo.

    40. It’s unlikely we get anything significant for Melo, but we might be able to get 1 good player and some filler contracts. Now that Butler is gone, I don’t think we’ll know for sure what happens until we see where Paul George goes next. If Paul George doesn’t wind up in Boston, Cleveland, or Washington, (or the with the Clippers pending what happens out there) that’s 3 teams that are looking to upgrade that might consider Melo. All would prefer we bought him out, but one might be willing to try to put together something we can stomach that doesn’t damage their core too much just to avoid one of the others getting him for nothing.

    41. So Melo’s marital issues are making him want to stay in New York so he can be with his family as he works out the problems. Yeah he’ll be here for the next season.

      I read those reports and they seem logical, but it could also be a ploy to get Phil to buy him out.

    42. @39 I’m thinking we can swing something with the Cavs where we give them Melo for their low roster guys (Melo for Shump + Frye + Jefferson works under the cap) and we extract two future 1st round picks from them (Melo is worth 1 pick to them, and taking back that garbage is worth 1 pick, too).

      I don’t think Cleveland is going to harp on Melo’s TS% under this scenario. He’d be their 6th man, essentially. And if they pull off the Love/George/Nuggets trade, they’d be as close to the Warriors as they’re likely to ever get.

    43. Terrible stats for Melo quoted above I agree. Anyone watch him on the Olympic teams? You can say he sucks, and maybe he does, but you can’t say he didn’t look pretty good on those teams. (Que up his advanced stats from his Olympic performance proving I’m wrong and the eye test lied again).

      They are stuck with him, sucky or not, so it is the coaching staff’s job to maximize his performance either to increase his trade value to make that a realistic possibility or improve the team’s results. That is what the coach and GM are getting paid handsomely for.

    44. I think you missed the point. Jowles was trolling er. er made the point that the trade with Denver years ago didn’t turn out that bad because the Knicks players traded sucked. Then er said that we could trade Melo for some good players now. Not logical.

      I never said any of these things. Thanks for playing though.

    45. Melo’s going nowhere. He can be disingenuous on other subjects, but he has pretty much always put his family first. It’s why, when he and LaLa were together, he didn’t want to go to a city that was bad for her career, and it’s why I can’t imagine he’d approve a trade anywhere else if it meant being far from his son in the midst of the marriage ending.

      Best we can hope for is, as others have said, Hornacek limiting his minutes, plus bringing in a better point guard to facilitate better overall team play. Melo is frustrating and stubborn, but we’ve also seen that when the team around him is playing well, he’s much less likely to go for heroball.

    46. @45 that ain’t happening. I’d be happy with the filler and a #2 pick.

      I’m sorry, but Melo has greater trade value than some on this board gives him credit for. We may think he is a steaming pile of garbage, and there are definitely statistics that support this. But he still has a great reputation, and reputation matters a lot to players and contenders. If Danny Ainge were running this team, he’d find a way to get 5 future draft picks for him, and you know this.

      If all you think he can land is a future second, then just buy him out now.

    47. I’m not sure Cle gives up much for Melo at all. Their objective is to be more competitive w/ GS, and I’m not sure he does that. He would have to get most of his minutes at the 4, and who is he going to guard? Plus, some of their future 1st round picks are already committed conditionally to the Hawks

      LAC on the other hand could be interesting; say Paul was to tell them to trade for Melo and he will stay.

    48. Shump, Frye and Jefferson can be traded Asa well for 2nd rounders. Ultimately you will have more cap space and more assets. That’s all you can realistically hope for.

    49. clev wants george but if hes a rental is he worth giving up assets, similar problem with melo although he is not a rental, his trade kicker is too high. our hoope is that melo agrees to a generous buyout

    50. But a buyout frees up zero cap space, so there’s no such thing as a “generous” buyout, except for dolan’s wallet.

    51. “Marc Stein ? @ESPNSteinLine
      League sources: Carmelo Anthony’s camp, while acknowledging Melo’s preference to stay in NYC, has tried to engage the Knicks in buyout talks
      2:20 PM – 27 Jun 2017”

    52. DO NOT BUY HIM OUT. Play him (and coach him) as many on this board have said. He’ll either like it or ask for trade proposals.

    53. I’m not sure Cle gives up much for Melo at all. Their objective is to be more competitive w/ GS, and I’m not sure he does that.

      You’re right. They’re much better off letting Iman Shumpert carry the offense when LeBron needs to rest. And Channing Frye’s DNP-CDs are just too valuable.

      Come on.

      If you don’t think Melo is worth a future 1 to Cleveland to be their 6th man, I think you’re a little too anti Melo.

    54. Also, a buyout ensures that Melo opts in next year.

      I’m not certain, but I think this is essentially part of the buyout negotiation. That is, option years are generally considered “compensation protected” under the CBA and so are subject to renegotiation upon buyout even if not yet exercised. So I think the Knicks and Melo could theoretically agree to a $25 million total buyout (not saying he would agree to this) that eliminates the entire contract. The $25m would then be prorated over the next two years to include the option year. Is this wrong?

    55. DO NOT BUY HIM OUT. Play him (and coach him) as many on this board have said. He’ll either like it or ask for trade proposals.

      I do not get this about the Melo detractors. If he is so toxic, get him TF out of town. Why would you want this ugly atmosphere in NY to keep lingering. I dont think a poo poo platter of cleanthony type players is worth having a terrible work place environment for your young guys. KP is already disgruntled ,you think he’s gonna be cool with Melo being on the bench when they have a chance to win a game?

    56. Buying out Melo would be a fireable offense for Phil Jackson. There’s no way you can be paying Melo AND Joakim Noah to not play basketball for your organization.

    57. You’re right. They’re much better off letting Iman Shumpert carry the offense when LeBron needs to rest. And Channing Frye’s DNP-CDs are just too valuable.

      Come on.

      If you don’t think Melo is worth a future 1 to Cleveland to be their 6th man, I think you’re a little too anti Melo.

      This is a good point. But I think no one will offer anything because of the public bickering. If Phil never made it known he was pushing Melo out he could have finessed some sort of compensation. But he’s not that savvy, and now all the savvy teams are just waiting for a buyout.

    58. Buying out Melo would be a fireable offense for Phil Jackson. There’s no way you can be paying Melo AND Joakim Noah to not play basketball for your organization.

      2 different things.

    59. If he’s open to a buyout, he’s open to playing somewhere else. He tipped his hand.

      He’s been open. He just has a NTC that dictates his location

    60. The key is the 2018-19 salary. If that can be eliminated from the cap, then by all means, buy him out. I just don’t see Melo leaving 30 million on the table, even if it were possible.

    61. Melo’s going nowhere. He can be disingenuous on other subjects, but he has pretty much always put his family first. It’s why, when he and LaLa were together, he didn’t want to go to a city that was bad for her career, and it’s why I can’t imagine he’d approve a trade anywhere else if it meant being far from his son in the midst of the marriage ending.

      Always put family first == “La La is married, I’m not.” http://pagesix.com/2017/04/18/how-carmelo-anthony-justified-allegedly-cheating-on-la-la/

    62. Like I said, Melo has us over a barrel. Like, we probably could get a pu-pu platter of guys Cleveland doesn’t want and maybe a pick back for Melo, but he’d have to waive his no trade clause. Why do that if you’re Melo?

    63. A big pass on the full buyout.

      Knicks and Melo have interest in moving on. Why would the Knicks be the only one paying the full price? It’s a big chunck of cap space in a capped league after all.

      And we aren’t trading Melo because is a big fucking max contract with a NTC and a trade kicker, not because Melo sucks (although I think he does).

    64. I’m not saying we can’t get a #1 for Melo because of anything to do with his ability or perception of him around the league; I’m saying it because we have no bargaining power. I am also saying it because having him on the team gets us nowhere: if he’s as good as some people think, he buys us a few extra wins in a meaningless season when it would be better to have a few less wins. If he’s not as good as people think, he adds a few losses and continues to contribute to a toxic environnment.

      It has nothing to do with whether he’s good or bad – he’s not part of our long-term plans, period. So, get what you can from him, and accelerate the rebuild. Even if all you get is a second round pick, his absence does that.

    65. I get that Melo wants to be near his son, but why would he veto a trade to Cleveland? He gets to play with his buddy LeBron and jack up wide open 3 pointers, and also be on national TV every other night.

      The only reason I can see him vetoing all trades is to stick it to Phil, which is unfortunately not that far fetched at all.

    66. I mean… it makes more sense to get Melo to play well for a half season and then trade him for something good, but it seems like it’s all beyond that now.

      If I’m Dolan and Jax comes to me with 25mil+ buyout, I say hand in your resignation. Except I’m sure Dolan was the driving force behind re-signing Melo in the first place. So it’s possible that this is Phil’s way of showing Dolan that this guy’s a bum and a buyout is the only way at this point. We’ll see what happens I guess.

    67. Does anyone see why being a dick like Phil Jackson has been to Carmelo Anthony was a terrible strategy?

    68. I do, however, think that Melo’s ego won’t allow him to go to Cleveland and be a 6th man. Kevin Love has to go if Melo shows up.

    69. How full of shit are these ESPN guys? They may as well just say Melo’s PR firm wrote this crap.

      Melo wants to be close to his son which is why he wants to stay in New York, but if he gets a buyout he’ll go to Cleveland. Makes a lot of sense.

      If Melo wants a buyout, waive the ETO season and eat it all this year. If he doesn’t want that and won’t accept a trade he can stay, be miserable on the Knicks, but be close to his kid which he so desperately wants.

    70. I’m pretty sure Melo likes living in NYC more than playing basketball, and definitely more than playing defense.

    71. Like I said, Melo has us over a barrel. Like, we probably could get a pu-pu platter of guys Cleveland doesn’t want and maybe a pick back for Melo, but he’d have to waive his no trade clause. Why do that if you’re Melo?

      Because you make it clear he isn’t getting bought out. So he has to if he wants to play for the Cavs.

      If he doesn’t want to play for the Cavs, then fine. No f’n way does he get his mega max *and* get to play for the cavs while we get nothing.

    72. Hypothetically, if Melo would agree to a buyout for basically his salary this year and that’s all, say about $25 million, would you do it?

      If in his mind he’s planning to opt out and be a free agent no matter what, maybe he’d be willing to do such a buyout to be free for this year and chase a title with LBJ.

      I’m not even sure that is possible under league rules, nor how it would translate into a cap hit for the Knicks. They would get out from under the spectre of him opting in for another year and get him off the roster.

    73. Random responses to stuff said:

      Nailing his ass to the bench would create a greater distraction than anything else the Knicks choose to do.

      We’re already a disaster. We can’t make it worse. No pain=no gain.

      I’m pretty clear we’re a worse team without Melo.

      AWESOME! That’s what the tank is all about!

      If we can’t trade Melo the best thing we can is let him play and be Melo.

      The anti-tank :(

      don’t give him the Marbury treatment. Just don’t start him.

      Friendly amendment accepted.

    74. Hypothetically, if Melo would agree to a buyout for basically his salary this year and that’s all, say about $25 million, would you do it?

      MSG says yes to that instantly.

      But Melo walking away from $28mm is by far the most unlikely scenario.

    75. Hubert, let me restate.
      I agree with you, Melo IS better on Cle than Shump and Frye.

      But, that is enough to trade for Melo, we would at least need a 1st round pick. Which you would have to assume is 25 or worse. And, based on the Korver trade, I’m not sure they have 2 to deal.

      BUT, Melo comes with risk. he costs a shit ton, plus the buyout. He would have to accept a lesser role. He would have to come off the bench. He would have to play D. Does he do all that?

      If you are Cle, you would MUCH rather have George, if only on a rental. Shit, you would rather have Courtney Lee and keep Shump. Or, if what you want is shooting, just re-sign Korver. He’s not that much worse. Or (not that Bos would do it) trade that 1 for Crowder.

    76. whats weird is that we have conversations on here regarding players (like Rubio), and we remind each other that the player and the contract need to be evaluated together; you can’t disconnect them. You have to do the same when asking yourself if another team would trade for Melo. it’s Melo, plus the shit ton of $$, plus the trade bonus, and the guys you can’t keep, and the luxury tax.

    77. Guys Melo is going to opt out of his contract at the end of this year and try to get one more big paycheck. I could easily see brooklyn giving him a 3 year 45 million deal. Man d-wade got a 2 year 50 mill deal from chicago. You have to play him so that he will opt out or increase his trade value. The only downside to playing him is potential for a big injury.

    78. I agree with er though in that we should buy him out and tank hard. So don’t go get rubio and don’t sign a bunch of avg vets. Run the triangle and play the young guys as much as possible, trade lee for a draft pick at the deadline. At the end of the year see what we have, who can actually play. Hopefully we end up with a top two pick and end up with porter or donic. Then we got a young crew of porzingis, frank and whoever we take. The Noah contract sucks because we could have had an oppurunity to sign a bigtime player when all our guys were still on rookie contracts……. hopefully he retires……

    79. Melos camp is engaging buyout and that’s bullshit that’s the worst that we can do. Not getting any value in return after giving so much to Melo.
      Options are let him stay or let him waive the ntc,
      Hell no to buy out.

    80. Hubert, let me restate.
      I agree with you, Melo IS better on Cle than Shump and Frye.

      But, that is enough to trade for Melo, we would at least need a 1st round pick. Which you would have to assume is 25 or worse. And, based on the Korver trade, I’m not sure they have 2 to deal.

      BUT, Melo comes with risk. he costs a shit ton, plus the buyout. He would have to accept a lesser role. He would have to come off the bench. He would have to play D. Does he do all that?

      If you are Cle, you would MUCH rather have George, if only on a rental. Shit, you would rather have Courtney Lee and keep Shump. Or, if what you want is shooting, just re-sign Korver. He’s not that much worse. Or (not that Bos would do it) trade that 1 for Crowder.

      It would have to be a future pick. Atlanta has their 2019. We could get 2021 and swap rights in 2022 or something. That could be very valuable when LeBron is gone.

      And it’s not George or Melo. Go make the Love/George/Nuggets trade, then trade scrap for Melo and give us a pick.

    81. Don’t tell me Cleveland doesn’t want Melo. He’s going to end up there in two seconds if we buy him out.

      It’s on us to make them give us a future pick for him. We’re not asking for anything of value. They would be happy to dump Frye and Shumpert.

    82. Hu…..yes, Cle wants Melo…for the vets minimum. Not for $25M plus the no trade kicker

    83. Here’s your trade. Melo and OQ to the 3 headed monsters for Rashard Lewis, Kwame Brown and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. they can throw in Chris Jackson.

    84. ESPN is reporting that we have legitimate interest in resigning Rose. I know Phil is dumb but he can’t possibly be that dumb, can he?

    85. That ESPN article about our “legitimate interest” in Rose is a rehash of things we already know. Maybe Phil really does re-sign him, but there’s literally nothing noteworthy or deserving of a new article in it.

    86. I would not be entirely opposed to Melo for Frye, PlayerX, filler on short contracts, and their first available 1st round pick.

      Force them to trade Shumpert for something we could use on a 1-2 year contract because we don’t want him back. We would be getting useful players in the short term while simultaneously improving the long term.

    87. I don’t think re-signing Rose would be catastrophic as long as it’s for only 1 year with a team option on year 2.

      1. We need a starting PG because Frank will not be ready and we don’t want to push too much
      2. If we move Melo and Rose, we are going to have a tough time scoring.
      3. Rose satisfies #1 and #2 without causing any long term damage if he’s only around for 1 year and we can let him go if either Frank develops faster than expected or we have a better option.

      All that said, Rose should be plan C.

      1. Plan A should be getting Rubio or a similar quality PG
      2. Plan B should be getting a stop gap second tier PG for 1-3 years that could perhaps become Frank’s backup when he’s ready
      3. Plan C should be hold your nose and sign Rose for a year with a team option on year #2.
      4. Plan D should be Ron Baker or Chason Randle unless one or both shows a lot of progress in the off season. Then one could become Plan C and Rose becomes Plan D.

    88. Day one: The Knicks trade Lance Thomas to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Channing Frye and a future #1 pick.

      Day two: The Knicks announce a buyout with Carmelo Anthony.

      A few days later: The Cavs sign Carmelo Anthony to a vet minimum deal for one year.

      Everyone’s happy. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

    89. As much as nobody here wants to hear it the best thing for everyone involved is for Melo an Phil to each man the fuck up and call a truce or whatever. Melo plays this season out, hopefully plays well or at least as well as he was playing before Fisher got fired, and after the season Melo can opt-out and they go their separate ways amicably.

    90. I’m with BBA. Keep Melo, trade for Patrick Beverley, and play triangle basketball.

    91. Imma laugh real hard when the opening day lineup of the Knicks has both Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose in it.

    92. The point guard market is going to be difficult this summer. There are more point guards on the market, fewer openings (because of all the new point guards from the draft) and the salary cap will be lower. Some point guards and their agents will have to come to grips with being worth less than they had expected or hoped. That process could take a while.

      Since we aren’t really expecting to be good, maybe we should wait for a while and see if someone finally decides they have to take less, or take a short term contract and wait for the market to improve.

    93. That’s discouraging. I dont think Phil’s done a great job, bit at least he’s accumulating young guys. His biggest sin might be that he shopped Porzingis, or perhaps just that Knicks dont have a reputation as a well run organization, which is partially Dolan’s fault.

    94. ugh.

      here comes Dolan…

      as much as I hate Phil, I can’t help but see this as Dolan hated the buyout rumours and Melo is getting the upper hand in this stupid ass “power struggle”… the Knicks keep reminding us that they are the Knicks.

    95. Phil hasn’t accumulated young guys. he just hasn’t traded the Knicks’ picks. He’s still signed/acquired contracts… not just Noah but Calderon as well. It really depends what KP is upset about if we’re assuming that’s the motivation for Dolan here. Based on reading the Latvian interview and the scant comments to other sources, my sense is more that KP is frustrated by the way Jackson treats players than by the specific decision to trade Melo. It’s not just the subtweeting. Phil made personal attacks against Shumpert and JR when he moved them and has made many insinuations even before the KP trade rumors that KP was lacking. All in public.

      Then there’s the interference with the team’s system where midway through each of KP’s seasons, Jackson has come in and forced the team to run more triangle as though the lack of it (and the lack of the coaches he picked’s intelligence) was the source of their problems rather than his own bizarre team building approach.

      Long story short, KP may like and respect Melo and feel that he has been treated poorly by the team while still not holding any strong opinions about whether he should stay on the team.

    96. Dolan just picked up the option on Phil’s last two years back in April, so of course now is the perfect time to fire him, when you still owe him $25M.

      Business genius, this James Dolan.

    97. Shelbourne just tweeted that there has been a conversation going on between Dolan and Phil about what’s best for the Knicks future so it looks like this could be a mutual decision. Of course by picking up the option Phil probably doesn’t care to leave now since he’ll be getting his full 60m.

    98. I’m very nervous now.

      If it was (almost) any owner other than Dolan, I could trust that there would be a contingency plan in place (or could be put together) if Jackson is asked to step down. But as other have said – and I have said in the past – asking James Dolan to resolve ANYTHING in regards with this franchise is an exercise in futility. And that’s even if Dolan is considering a change b/c Jackson allowed the whole KP trade rumors to leak (which if I were owner, I’da been annoyed about that).

    99. At this point if he just lets Phil go and keep Mills in charge that would probably be the best situation for now. Hopefully Gaines and gets to stay too and have input on moves. But really with Dolan who the hell knows what he has in mind if Phil leaves.

    100. If Phil Jackson will leave I guess that will be the answer to all questions.
      Melo will stay, KP will stay. Free agents could be positive again with the Knicks and triangle will say goodbye. Dolan should hire the next gm by demanding “not to touch our future picks”. I guess we’ll all be well.

    101. I don’t think Phil leaving necessarily means Melo stays. Most likely this talk of moving on from Phil has more to do with the terrible press that the Knicks have been getting and the KP dissention. Dolan just wants to be left alone and lately Phil’s blunders have caused him strife.

    102. I haven’t been as bullish on Jackson as many have on here. That said: if you told me Dolan has a few strong replacements in mind for Jackson, I… I… you know what, fuck it. No good has ever come of Dolan stepping in to resolve Knick matters. I’d love for him to prove otherwise for once, but this is Guitar Jimmy we’re talking about.

      Dammit, Phil. Why’d you have to publicly entertain trade offer for KP and piss away your margin of error for this job???

    103. “Knicks and President Phil Jackson are expected to announce that they’re parting ways early Wednesday morning, sources told ESPN.”

    104. Anybody else feel uneasy about who will assume the job next? I’m hoping this means that Melo is now open to waiving the NTC. I just want Clarence Gaines Jr to keep his job and for Hornacek to run a motion offense.

    105. I hope the next guy comes in and decides on a full rebuild, talks Melo up and trades him for the best deal we can get.

    106. Melo isn’t going anywhere and I assume this move seals it. Like I said earlier let’s hope he just plays out this season and if he opts out and leaves in the off-season that’ll be the best for both parties. Having a decent, drama-free season would be the realistic best case scenario for both parties.

    107. I’m starting to think you may be right, BBA, as I mull the scant details over. The story that seems most likely is that Phil wanted to buy Melo out and had been trying to convince Dolan to do so, but Dolan wasn’t convinced, at which point Phil decided there was no point in him sticking around since Melo obstructed plan #17 from Phil, which was to trade/buyout Melo and then do stuff (probably nothing too aggressive though since Phil has yet to truly commit to any direction).

      This sucks for the team, and at this point, I just hope Melo sucks from here on out. THe cap space he eats is irrelevant. The wins he creates aren’t.

      Until we know for sure though I’m gonna keep hoping that this move was a result of the reaction to Phil’s personal attacks on players and his obsession with the triangle as an explanation for the team’s failures and that the debate about buying out Melo was just the last straw and something Phil’s repalcement will be allowed to reconsider.

    108. It can’t have helped Phil that someone paid for a bill board ad opposite MSG saying don’t trade Porzingis.

    109. Begley says Dolan has always been interested in Ujiri. This could literally be the best or worst thing to ever happen to the Knicks. It’s the Knicks so probably the latter, but I can dream!

    110. So Melo has the power to finish off his GM, and influence KP to get on board with him. It’s his team. He’s never leaving.
      Hornacek head will roll next, and our draft picks are back on the market. The good old days are back!

    111. In the final end he won the war after losing every battle…

      Sort of the anti Pyhrrus :-)

      Could possibly the enabler Dolan for once not let the inmates run the asylum and extend Phil???

    112. Phil needed to go. He wanted Melo gone but couldn’t get rid of him because he gave him a full NTC. Once he realized a buyout wasn’t possible, he decided to step down.

      So Phil Jackson leaves because of his own mistake. I’m not sad for him at all. I am, however, concerned about the direction of our franchise right now. I really want to rebuild through the draft and youth, but it is very interesting that Melo’s team and LeBron’s team no longer have PBO’s. These next few weeks will be interesting.

    113. So we have a GM who tried to put a team together to play in a system that we won’t even end up running.

      What the fuck?

      This isn’t good. Not at all.

    114. If this were a team with a reasonable owner, I’d be doing cartwheels right now. Sadly, the one thing that Phil had going for him is a high degree of autonomy from Dolan.

      For one thing, I fear that this move could bring Isiah back into the fold.

      The bitch is that he’s moving on AFTER the draft. Would most other GMs (or at least the best ones, e.g. Buford) have taken someone else over Frank? Although I have to say that I LOVE the other picks and the non-drafted pickups and look forward to seeing them this weekend.

    115. A lurker for a long time, but I really need to post this and get it off my chest: according to Dolan’s Razor, what’s the worst and knicksiest thing that can happen?


      Please welcome (back) our new POB, Mr. Isiah Thomas

    116. The MeloDrama, Kristaps snafu, Noah signing and triangle obsession. All great reasons for Phil to go.

      Will Hornacek stay on? He’s a Phil guy.
      Will Mills stay on? He’s NOT a Phil guy.

      Man, the next few weeks just got a whole lot more interesting.

    117. I can’t agree with the tonality of these comments. Phil was an absolutely terrible GM. He failed on most levels – results, cap use, trades, managing our players. The ONLY success was keeping picks and having them well – and even then in a year he claimed we were rebuilding with youth he declined to buy a pick in the second round when really good players were changing hands.

      Yes – there’s a lot that’s Knicksy about doing this now, after the draft, and after we picked up his option. But his recent performance in the job with the whole KP thing was abject and I’m certain we’re better off without him.

      Now of course Dolan can stuff up the next bit with who he hires, but I’m just not sure it can be that much worse than Phil…

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