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Friday, September 22, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.06.18)

  • [NYPost] French pick with all the Knicks want, they just need to get him
    (Saturday, June 17, 2017 9:00:26 PM)

    During the French League semifinal between Strasbourg and Lyon-Villeurbonne earlier this month, Olivier Mazet, the French agent for Frank Ntilikina, arranged for a postgame dinner. He invited his client, Ntilikina, of Strasbourg; Charles Kahudi, who plays for Lyon; and Ntilikina’s mother, Jacqueline. Lyon led 2-0 in the best-of-five series, and Mazet was relieved. He soon…

  • [NYPost] The 25 New York sports stories that will capture you this summer
    (Saturday, June 17, 2017 6:33:16 PM)

    Summer in the city. … You could be crawling on the Cross Bronx Expressway interrupted by the sight of a battered baseball still orbiting off the bat of Aaron Judge. Or a newsflash that the Mets have suffered yet another disheartening, disabling injury. There can be tempers flaring at a packed Red Bulls-NYCFC game, or…

  • [NYPost] Remembering the worst trades ever by New York teams
    (Saturday, June 17, 2017 3:03:40 PM)

    It’s an interesting week to ponder how perilous the world of the sports transaction can be. We celebrated — maybe that’s the wrong word — the 40th anniversary of the Tom Seaver deal this week, and Daniel Murphy (yes, I know, that wasn’t a trade) paid a visit to Queens this weekend. The Nets will…

  • [SNY Knicks] Is Shaun Livingston a fit for the Knicks?
    (Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:30:37 AM)

    Warriors PG Shaun Livingston, who made $5.7 million this season in the final year of a three-year contract, is set to become an unrestricted free agent.

  • 86 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.18)

    1. lavor postell

      Yesterday was the 4th game I’ve now watched Frank and made me feel much more comfortable drafting him at 8.

      -He broke guys down off the dribble in isolation from beyond the arc twice yesterday and got to the rim, once missing a lefty layup over the contesting big and on the other occasion beating everybody to the rack and finishing easily with his right.

      -Most of his misses were open spot ups. I feel comfortable enough that on most nights he’d convert those looks.

      -He didn’t rack up assists, but he did a great job of directing the offense in the 2nd half and helped Strasbourg open up a 10 point lead late in the 4th before inexplicably getting pulled, at which point his team collapsed and went down 1 in the blink of an eye.

      -Was close to having the sequence of the game with a block on the penultimate possession and then missing a baseline J long by a hair that would have put his team up 3. He then had the misfortune of actually getting back on D where the opposing guard hit a prayer off balance fadeaway over Frank and some other bro.

      I’d still prefer Monk to Frank, but the more I’ve seen of him, the more I understand the appeal.

    2. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I figured–I can figure it out from there. What time is the next game?

    3. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @7

      Thanks

      Fultz Covington Simmons Saric Embiid has the possibility of turning into a realllllyyyy good starting five

    4. thenoblefacehumper

      That Philly has had one more consecutive losing season than us and has 1000000 times the assets to show for it should really put to bed any anti-tanking arguments.

    5. lavor postell

      Fultz Covington Simmons Saric Embiid has the possibility of turning into a realllllyyyy good starting five

      This lineup has too many guys that need the ball in their hands with Fultz, Saric and Simmons, with Simmons as a complete non-threat from outside and Saric as a not very good one as things currently stand. I think Saric will eventually need to go to the bench with a more natural floor spacing stretch forward coming in at the 4. I wonder if they’ll have any interest in Gallinari this summer.

    6. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      A bunch of parts does not equal the whole. What have the Philly bunch ever won? Can they play together? Can they stay healthy? We all know that they’re good at losing but not so sure about winning.

    7. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @10

      I think Saric has the tools to develop into a proper stretch 4–he only shot 32% this past year from 3 but Euro prospects generally struggle from deep in their first year and he did shoot almost 6 3’s per 36

      Philadelphia is a team that I could see thriving with a motion offense, given that it allows all these ball dominant guys to coexist more effectively

    8. lavor postell

      Yeah, but they have Embiid who is also a ball dominant player. I don’t think there’s enough usage to optimally be shared between Fultz, Simmons, Saric and Embiid. Saric gives them 2 ball handlers off the bench with McConnell and perhaps he’ll factor into closing lineups, but to start games I think they need a lower usage, off ball, spot up guy more than forcing in another ball handler.

      Even if Saric can hit 3’s at an improved rate this year, which I expect him to, it’s not an optimal use of his talents for them. I also don’t like the combination of him and Simmons at the forward spots defensively, though Embiid, if healthy, is such a freak it may not be a major issue against most teams. All they should be focused on is drafting and signing good catch-and-shoot players that can space the floor around whatever combinations of Fultz, Simmons, Saric and Embiid they throw out there.

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @14

      I agree with you for the most part, which is why it boggles my mind that they’re not drafting Ball, who fits perfectly on that team

    10. lavor postell

      I’m more of a Fultz guy, because I think his ceiling is higher as a shot creator, but I’ve warmed up to Ball as somebody who would be perfect on any team that will run a motion offense with multiple ball handlers. I’m skeptical of him ever being a guy you can expect to just get you buckets when you need it, but I see him as Rubio with a 3 ball, which imo is an incredibly valuable player.

      I don’t like the Kidd comps, because I doubt he’ll ever be the defensive player Kidd was. I’m also not sure whether or not he’ll be able to guard opposing PGs, but his size should allow him to defend most 2’s and many 3’s once he fills out while being fine in a switch heavy defensive scheme. Seems as if the Lakers are just trying to prove a point to Lavar that he’s not calling the shots by feigning interest in others and floating out rumors they’re not totally enamored with Lonzo, but ultimately they should and I believe will draft Lonzo.

    11. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Ball is a unique prospect and the kind of one where you have to build your team around him rather than plugging him into any system (like Simmons and unlike Fultz)

      He should thrive in two guard fronts because his skill set is actually very SG esque (shooting from range, backdoor cuts, etc) but with outlier elite passing and IQ.

      He reminds me of Kidd on offense more than D–obviously you’ll rarely if ever compare a guard to Kidd on defense.

      Ball should be able to guard all but the fastest 1s (who no one can guard anyway)–his speed isn’t amazing but it’s relatively underrated. And he had really good off ball instincts on D. I’m very high on him and all in on the kind of player he is. Ball to me plays basketball in it’s ideal form at least on offense and his mentality lends itself to winning as well

    12. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Also, imagine having a guy who could routinely throw half court alley oops to Kristaps

      It could transform KPs game

      I’ll settle for Frank however

    13. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Give me Frank and Frank and I’ll be very happy. Ntilikina and Mason. Think George Hill and CP3 playing together.

    14. Accidentank 2017

      Lonzo Ball will never be a Knick and be good at basketball at the same time.

      I like what I think the Knicks are doing; they’re trying to find smart, young two-way basketball players and build a motion offense. We can’t be sure because Phil has proven to be a moron (Derrick Rose trade followed by the Joakim Noah contract), but if the Knicks go young and smart we could build a special and cohesive unit. Targetting guys like Frank, Kennard, Justin Jackson, and Donovan Mitchell this year is encouraging. The aim should always be to build through the draft, and the Knicks have always been an organization capable of finding guys who can play in this league. Hopefully we can stop doing dumb things.

    15. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Draftexpress’ latest mock draft (out this morning) has Ntilikina dropping to #14. Did they watch yesterday’s game?

      Fultz
      Ball
      Tatum (over JJ)
      Jackson
      Fox
      Isaac
      Markkanen
      Monk (to us)
      DSJ
      Collins
      Mitchell
      Kennard
      John Collins
      Ntilikina

    16. thenoblefacehumper

      14 seems like around the right place to start thinking about a player like Ntilikina. I would take most young, productive college players over him. At least you can be decently sure they’ll have some NBA skills. Ntilikina might not. No one is really sure what he’s good at, if anything. There’s a good chance I’ll be okay with picking him given the way I think the first 7 will play out, but passing on DSJ for him would piss me off.

    17. ess-dog

      I still think Isaac could drop to us, in which case we’d have to take him. Maybe if we get the 12 or 15, we could pick up Frank anyway? Or Mitchell/Kennard? All it takes is one reach pick (Markkanen or Frank) above us to start a drop. Heck, we could even see Ball or Fox drop to us. I think we’re in a good spot to grab an enexplained dropper this year.

    18. Z-man

      Philly may have done the right thing by tanking, but they have lots of question marks. Embiid has bad feet and knees; Simmons has a bad foot; Saric is inefficient so far and is 23, not 20; MCW was a bust and Okafor is probably a bust. They’re ahead of us, but after nearly a decade of irreverent tanking, they are still 3 years away and highly dependent on fragile foot bones and knee cartilage.

    19. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      If we could grab Monk Tatum ir DSJr with the 8th pick and actually pick up Ntilikina with a later first that’s an absolute coup

      But I’m almost 100% sure Dallas will pick Frank if we don’t–they absolutely love him. He’s not getting past 9

    20. d-mar

      Boston may end up with 7 first round picks in the next 3 years.

      I’ve been as critical of Ainge as anyone over the years, because he keeps piling up picks but has never been able to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade to bring in the transcendent star. However, now I think he’s playing the long game, which makes a lot of sense. Adding Butler, George or Hayward still doesn’t get them past Cleveland and certainly not past the Warriors, so why not stockpile youngsters until LeBron starts to decline (although who knows when that will be) or maybe the Warriors get broken up?

      I hate the Celtics with a passion, but Ainge knows what he’s doing.

    21. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @26

      Really the difference for them has been Okafor–with Noel gone he’s the insurance policy if Embiid tanks, but the insurance policy in this case is a very bad player.

      They should’ve traded Okafor for scraps and maxed Nerlens and I would’ve feel a lot more confident about their relative position

    22. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      What about trading our #8 to Portland for 15, 20 and 26? We could probably draft:

      15 Mitchell, Justin Jackson, Kennard, or Terrance Ferguson
      20 OG, Leaf or possibly Giles
      26 Bell, Hart or Swanigan

      And then take Mason or Morris with pick #44

    23. danvt

      yes @26 and they deliberately lost! I hate Dolan as much or way more than the next guy, and assume they won’t win while he’s around, but at least he has tried to win, if stupidly.

      People are pissed about KD but should reserve it for modern day Washington Generals.

      Ball to me plays basketball in it’s ideal form at least on offense and his mentality lends itself to winning as well

      I’m with this. I think he’s a player that can transform the way a team plays and I’m looking forward to watching him. Yes, his dad’s a dick which really has done him a disservice because it’s made him look greedy and unlikable, but the Kidd comps are spot on imho. Kidd was a one man Princeton offense who, on one leg, made us a 54 win team.

      God I wish the Knicks had a shot at him. We really should have tanked harder :-)

    24. Brian Cronin

      They’re ahead of us, but after nearly a decade of irreverent tanking, they are still 3 years away and highly dependent on fragile foot bones and knee cartilage.

      They won a playoff series in 2012, so they have only been tanking for five years.

    25. thenoblefacehumper

      The Sixers have exactly one more consecutive losing season than us. However long they’ve been bad, we’ve been bad for that number minus one season. I would love to hear the case for that being worth the asset difference.

      I’m not all doom and gloom–it’s very possible that I’d take both Willy and Porzingis over anyone on their roster. The problem is they’ve given themselves a huge margin for error while we’re pretty much fucked if Porzingis is anything less than a star. Again, they’ve been able to do that at the cost of one more losing season than us. That reflects very poorly on Phil Jackson.

    26. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @34 It reflects on us having virtually no #1 draft picks to work with. That’s not on Phil.

    27. danvt

      @34
      My point was that they’ve been bad on purpose. They’ve basically punted seasons. Our management gave stupid people like me false hope. That is not negligible.

    28. thenoblefacehumper

      It reflects on us having virtually no #1 draft picks to work with. That’s not on Phil.

      The Sixers acquired the swap they used to move from 5 to 3 and the extra pick they packaged for Fultz with the same amount of money we used on Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams. That’s on Phil!

    29. JK47

      Remember, gang, there was no possible way Phil could have acquired additional draft picks in his three previous seasons here. The only possible moves he had available to him were MegaMaxMelo, Arron Afflalo, Derrick Williams, Joakim Noah and the Derrick Rose trade.

      I mean, there was the extra first rounder he acquired then gave away for the bag of magic Derrick Rose beans, but other than that there was no possible way he could have gotten extra picks.

    30. ess-dog

      Can we absorb Rubio AND one of the bad Blazer contracts? Because I think it will take a Portland 1st to get Rubio. If we go into next year with a Rubio/Monk/Melo/KP/Willy lineup, that could at least be fun to watch.

    31. lavor postell

      If the rumors of Minnesota chasing one of the big name PGs available this summer are true and they land one, I think a Rubio for Lee swap is pretty likely. I also suspect if that’s their target they might pull the trigger on Markkanen at 7.

      I’m very intrigued by the offensive potential of and mismatches created by a Markkanen/Towns frontcourt pairing. I know it’s almost certainly going to be awful on defense.

    32. Z-man

      It looks to me like the Sixers have not spent significant money on a free agent since Elton Brand in 2008. They also re-upped Iggy around that time. They had a middling team at that time with nut-job Doug Collins coaching them as a win-now team, but I think it’s fair to say that they were already in tank mode then. That they made the playoffs in a lockout season is as irrelevant as if we had made the playoffs this season.

      Oh yeah, I forgot Noel, who they botched as well.

      The Celts never really went full tank and never really had to, given the generosity of the Nets.

      Is it fair to say that not a single contending team of today got there via full tank mode?

      Not Cleveland (LeBron left and came back, not a replicable model)
      Not GSW (good/lucky drafting)
      Not Spurs (Robinson injury, lucky to get Duncan, great drafting, trades, and player valuation)
      Not really the Clips
      Not Toronto
      Not Houston

      And neither of the egregious tankers (Philly and Minny) have turned the corner yet, despite multiple #1 picks. And Cleveland and Boston have only done so much with their high picks. And there’s plenty of mismanaged middling teams out there with the Pistons, Pels, OKC, and Bulls as examples.

      The answer isn’t tanking, it’s shrewd player valuation and move-making. And lots of luck. Phil had fucked up, but we’re on a better path than other less controversial teams. And his worst fuck-ups were about bad player valuation, not a win-now mentality. He overvalued Rose, Noah, and Melo. Big mistakes, but not related to not tanking.

    33. JK47

      And his worst fuck-ups were about bad player valuation, not a win-now mentality. He overvalued Rose, Noah, and Melo.

      You can’t separate the two. Rose, Noah and Melo were bad moves in their own right. Those three players gave pitiful production relative to their salaries. Those moves were even worse when you consider the Knicks’ win curve, and how far away they were from contending when they traded for Rose and signed Melo and Noah. If you’re a crummy team with a low-30’s win total, the answer is not to make a long-term investment in the decline phase of a once-good player like Joakim Noah.

      You don’t need to necessarily “tank” to win in this league. You just really have to avoid doing dumb shit, occasionally do some smart shit, and hopefully get lucky. Phil hasn’t avoided doing dumb shit, so this whole “winning” thing is taking a pretty long time.

    34. JK47

      The 76ers/Celtics trade is a dumb trade for the Celtics, and it will blow up in their face.

      Instead of swinging for the fences and drafting Fultz or Ball, they will add another role player in Josh Jackson. Their young players are all nuts-and-bolts types, guys who seem to be decent rotation players with no “star” upside. Jackson fits right in with that theme. Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Kelly Olynyk, Josh Jackson… is anybody frightened of that core of young talent? I’m not.

      But hey, they acquired another pick next year, with which they can acquire yet another “nuts and bolts” player. At some point you need to add the chrome and leather to the nuts and bolts.

    35. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      If the Celtics just moved down to take Tatum instead of taking Fultz that’s just crazy. Even for Jackson its probably nuts.

    36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @43

      Agreed

      IT at age 33 on a max deal isn’t going to look very good when his backup is Terry Rozier

    37. lavor postell

      @43

      Agreed. Also it doesn’t even increase their chances of getting #1 next year because it’s top-1 and 6-14 protected.

    38. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Frank is the biggest unknown in the draft being the youngest player in the lottery and also having not worked out for anyone or attending the combine. I think this is why draftexpress shows him at #14. I’m hopeful that Phil and Clarence know everything there is to know about him and we can take him at 8 and people will talk about it later on as “Phil just stole Frank like he stole KP two years ago.”

    39. djphan

      there’s not much separating fultz from the other prospects so i kind of like it for the celtics depending on who they end up with..

    40. Z-man

      “You don’t need to necessarily “tank” to win in this league. You just really have to avoid doing dumb shit, occasionally do some smart shit, and hopefully get lucky. Phil hasn’t avoided doing dumb shit, so this whole “winning” thing is taking a pretty long time.”

      Isn’t this what I basically said? And also, that tanking for the sake of getting better draft picks hasn’t really worked in terms of contending?

    41. Frank

      That core for the Sixers seems pretty awesome, but I’ll believe it when I see it that they are going to be a really good team. They literally have Embiid (who can’t stay on the floor) and Covington as guys who are even average on D. Fultz, for all of his offensive talent, was reportedly beyond awful on defense this year. Saric is a bad defender, and Simmons (if he can ever get on the court) is not known as a defensive guy either.

      That said — that is a HUGE team that could switch PNRs without much of an issue, with 6’5″ Fultz as the smallest guy on the floor. Could be pretty interesting. And without a doubt I’d rather be the Sixers than us right now (I’ve said the opposite in the past, but you can’t argue with this).

      Re: Ainge – the only thing I can take out of this decision is that he really doesn’t like Fultz’s defense. If you look at all the guys Ainge has drafted / re-signed (other than late picks where beggars are pretty much choosers), he goes with guys that are absolute defensive beasts. Jaylen Brown is a great defender. Marcus Smart. Gave an extension to Bradley. Loves Crowder. I certainly didn’t watch all of Fultz’s games, but word is that he’s beyond indifferent on defense. And like we’ve said a bunch of times on previous threads, it’s hard to instill defensive tenacity in players — they have to just have it in them. And by all reports Josh Jackson is a tenacious defender.

      Think about Ainge as a player, and the guys that Ainge played with — those guys were all DOGS on defense and played with huge effort and passion.

    42. Brian Cronin

      but I think it’s fair to say that they were already in tank mode then.

      They weren’t a great team, but they weren’t tanking. They probably SHOULD have been tanking, but they weren’t. They were still aiming to make the playoffs each year, even if it was just to be the #8 seed.

    43. JK47

      This is the sentence I was responding to:

      And his worst fuck-ups were about bad player valuation, not a win-now mentality.

      I disagree– it’s BOTH. It was bad player valuation AND a win-now mentality. The Noah and Rose moves were clear win-now moves, and clear mistakes the moment they were announced.

    44. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Neither one of those moves has any long term bearing on the team. Unless we’re going to go into the fabled “opportunity costs” once again.

    45. stratomatic

      Ainge can’t sign all the picks he’s stockpiled over the last few years so he’s obviously going to make a move. But he’s a smart guy. He’s not going to rush, overpay, or bring in a 2nd string star just to make the team better. He’s trying to win a championship. The only deals he’s going to make are for star players that are actually “star” players and that can be core pieces to a championship run. He’s looking at Butler, George, and Hayward among others. If he can’t get one or more guys like that, he’s going to continue playing musical chairs, winning trades, and accumulating assets.

      Frankly, I think the guy is a legitimate idiot savant or something. Even after he makes some of his deals you can’t always comprehend his advantage until after the fact. He reminds me of Warren Buffett years ago. Warren would buy a stock. A bunch of the smartest financial minds on Wall St would look at the same company and still not understand what Warren saw. Then 3 years later they would finally figure it out after the stock had doubled.

      Most of the time you want to get the best player in the deal. Giving up the #1 for the #3 goes against that general strategy. But if you don’t think Fultz is any more likely to be a star than the 3rd pick, you get an extra asset, and you free up a little cap space by paying the 3rd pick less, it makes sense. That asset may bring home the star they crave.

    46. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @53 for less than the combined cost of Afflalo and D Will we could’ve swapped up to third in this draft

      But instead we decided that the best way to make the playoffs was signing Arron Afflalo and Derrick williams. Lmao.

    47. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @54

      My issue with Ainge is that trading for Hayward or butler will not get you past GSW and probably not even Cleveland so really the best you get out of this deal is the extra Kings pick (or Lakers pick in an unlikely scenario), which isn’t worth the difference in quality btwn Fultz and Jackson

      I’ll hold my tongue until it all plays out however

    48. JK47

      Neither one of those moves has any long term bearing on the team.

      Knicks will be paying Joakim Noah $19.9M to wear a suit and sit on the bench in 2020. Not a long-term problem doe!

      Unless we’re going to go into the fabled “opportunity costs” once again.

      Opportunity cost: not a real concept that you learn the first day of Economics class, instead obviously something just made up by people who don’t like Phil Jackson.

    49. stratomatic

      The Knicks are in the best shape they’ve been in for so long I can’t even remember when they were better positioned. Not having a 1st round pick for two of these semi-tank years under Jacksons cost us a lot of time (2 years to be exact lol), but from here we’ll be able to build in a sensible way and play to our strength, which seems to be drafting.

      At a minimum we need 2 young starting guards with significant upside and we should probably be looking for a two-way scorer at SF to replace Melo eventually (even if he stays for now). It’s feasible that we could come away with all that this summer.

      The #8 pick gets us one guard prospect.

      We can probably move Lee to get a second piece (I’m hoping it’s Rubio but if it’s a late lottery pick that lands us another guard or SF I’d be very happy also)

      We may be able to get a pick from Portland by taking on a bad contract.

      Then we still have some cap space, a couple of 2nd round picks, a potential upside surprise from Baker, Randle, or some other undrafted player and that should fill out the bench.

    50. stratomatic

      My issue with Ainge is that trading for Hayward or butler will not get you past GSW and probably not even Cleveland so really the best you get out of this deal is the extra Kings pick (or Lakers pick in an unlikely scenario), which isn’t worth the difference in quality btwn Fultz and Jackson

      He clearly needs more than just Butler or Hayward, but he has a lot of cap space AND all those picks. So he could theoretically come away with 2 established stars to go along with Thomas and Horford, still have many of his solid role players, the #3 pick, and more picks left over to build with. Two legit established stars could easily get him past the Cavs and he’d still have a ton of upside. But he has to make those deals.

    51. Donnie Walsh

      My issue with Ainge is that trading for Hayward or butler will not get you past GSW and probably not even Cleveland

      I think that, even though it’s most likely futile, teams need to continue to build the best teams they can over the next 4-5 years. The league can’t sustain a 28-team mass tank job. The Cavs are a playoff injury to LeBron away from falling apart, and it’s really only a matter of time before he starts to show wear, so the contending East teams at least need to continue to make win-now moves. If Ainge adds Butler, they are going to be much better. Probably in the top 3 teams going into next season. And with lots of future assets still to tinker with. They are in great shape as a franchise.

    52. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Oh I forgot. Signing Noah and bringing in Rose cost us our chance at KD. What was Phil thinking?

    53. JK47

      Oh I forgot. Signing Noah and bringing in Rose cost us our chance at KD.

      No, signing Noah and bringing in Rose cost us a chance at doing something useful, instead of something utterly useless. You’re either way too stupid to understand this, or you’re just feigning stupidity in order to piss people off. In other words, quintessential Reub. Making every conversation just that much dumber. Worst poster in KB history, still going strong.

    54. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @62

      *the claim that reub is the worst KB poster ever has not been subject to peer review

    55. Ben R

      The Sixers are in better shape than us long term but not by much. I like KP more than anyone on the Sixers once you factor in injury history and Embiid is never going to be healthy. I think they might get a couple seasons and one real shot with him ala Bill Walton before he breaks down again. Simmons has still never stepped foot on an NBA court and Fultz while great potentially might not be a huge amount better than whoever we end up taking, and Saric looks like he might be a decent NBA player by by no means screams star.

    56. yellowboy90

      Richaun Holmes is another very good young player Philly has that has some serious two way potential.

      Covington sucks but is still cheap. If I’m the sixers I’d go Hart and Iwundu in the 2nd rd.

    57. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @62 You’re too stupid to realize who is really the stupid one. There’s opportunity cost involved in not understanding the truth.

    58. dtrickey

      Does anyone else think PG has killed any ability the Pacers might have had to get any value for him? I get he is trying to be open with the Pacers, but man it feels like that was poor timing. Lakers can just wait it out for him (although I don’t think they have the ability to fit him unless they move Deng, Mozgov and Clarkson), and I very much doubt the rental market for him is going to be stellar.

    59. Brian Cronin

      It does seem like telling them this last season would have been a lot more useful.

      That said, the Lakers were always going to be willing to give them SOMEthing to lock PG down, and I think that that will remain. 2020 first rounder, maybe?

    60. DS

      Does anyone else think PG has killed any ability the Pacers might have had to get any value for him?

      Boston could probably get him to sign an extension and then trade for him, no? They could still hang onto several of their first rounders so that they’re not totally mortgaging their future. Maybe keep the Lakers’ and Nets’ pick but send them this year’s #3 and a few more? Plus some Euro draft-and-stash players?

      ESPN’s talking about George to the Cavs.

    61. ptmilo

      It seems that way but it’s also possible it goes like this: George warns the Pacers privately he’s not resigning a long time ago, maybe before last year’s deadline. Pacers tell George offers aren’t close, other teams tell his agent Pacers aren’t serious. George is frustrated assumed they will risk it so agent leaks intentions to put pressure on Pritchard bc will look bad if they lose him for nothing. It’s also easy to overstate how much this matters. The pacers may be in a bad position but suitors still have to compete with each other. Any buyer will talk to George about resigning either way.

      Of course another possibility is that a deal is really close and the Pacers actually leaked this first bc they don’t want to catch shit when it seems like they didn’t get enough.

    62. Brian Cronin

      If I were Phil, I’d say “Done!” before Riley got to the part about the 14th pick.

      Agreed.

    63. dtrickey

      I guess maybe a top 4 team would be willing to part with something to tip them over the edge, but regardless of your position on PG, he is probably worth more than what they can offer. I am not sure there are too many teams recently that have made a move for a rental player. Usually deals for expiring “star” players get signed off on until there is a promise that a player will sign an extension. If he is so dead set on getting back to California, trade him to the Kings.

      That said, the Lakers were always going to be willing to give them SOMEthing to lock PG down, and I think that that will remain. 2020 first rounder, maybe?

      Reading some commentary on twitter, the Lakers will definitely need to move Mozgov, Clarkson, Deng. May need to let Randle go as well. Maybe there is a deal there for a couple of 1st and Indiana taking on a salary dump. Not sure what their cap restrictions are going forward.

    64. DRed

      Y’all laughed at ol DRed when he proposed Melo to Miami and now the lamestream media stealing my material. Bad!

    65. Philmelo

      In other words, quintessential Reub. Making every conversation just that much dumber. Worst poster in KB history, still going strong.

      Feed him shit and keep him in the dark.

    66. dtrickey

      Unless Riley has some other moves up his sleeves that would have Miami challenging the Cavs, I really don’t think he signs off on that. 100% say yes if I were Phil though and Melo waives the NTC.

    67. Z-man

      Brian, it’s probably a semantical difference. When I say “tanking” I include “making no moves towards contending.” The Sixers pulled the plug well before 2012 and just let the tank naturally take hold over time. Not a full-out fire sale kind of tank, but certainly not making any win-now moves either.

      JK47, I disagree, and that’s my point. You can make smart “win now” moves without compromising the future or going full out tank. The Knicks made dumb ones. Regardless, they didn’t need to full-out tank to keep the team on a path to contention, and teams that actually have tanked are hardly better off right now than teams that didn’t.

    68. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Ntilikina’s dilemma:

      “Frank is such a competitor, mature for his age,” Mazet said. “He wants to win this before he leaves for the NBA, even though he’s not able to enjoy the pre-draft process. He’s worked so hard — 10 years — to make that dream happen, meet the franchises and talk to the people, show them what he can do. Unfortunately, he’s not able to do that [yet]. He’d rather win.”

      “You don’t sense he’s distracted, but I imagine he is,” said Strasbourg guard A.J. Slaughter, who starred at Western Kentucky. “We hear his agent wants to leave for the workouts, and [Ntilikina] wants stay and win a championship. It’s a stressful situation. He wants to do what’s best for the team. I can’t imagine what he’s going through.”

      Frank is playing against grown men for a championship and dealing with the stresses of the draft a world away at the same time. He’s building more character every day. Let’s hope that we’re lucky enough to get him at #8.

      http://nypost.com/2017/06/18/the-pick-with-everything-knicks-want-they-just-need-to-get-him/amp/

    69. ess-dog

      Miami would actually be a good situation for Melo with a real point guard and a traditional rebounding/shot-blocking big. He could replicate that Woodson playoff team. Would be really nice if they could grab a stretch 4 too like Markkanen.

    70. Z-man

      I think Melo winds up with the Cavs in some sort of 3-way deal. I don’t think Miami is a contender with or w/o Melo, especially if they have to give up assets to get him. Magic could make a rookie mistake for the Lakers, but would Melo waive his NTC to go there?

    71. Z-man

      I just hope that Phil has the balls to not waive and stretch him. Someone will bite if he just holds his cards close. No one is beating GS anyway, but I can see the Clips trying to figure something out.

    72. KnickfaninNJ

      As I’ve said before, Miami is a good fit for Melo and Miami has some stuff to trade if they really want him.

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