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Sunday, April 23, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.20)

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis speaks after Phil blow-off: I want to be a Knick
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:59:21 PM)

    Don’t worry, he still wants to be a Knick. Kristaps Porzingis will leave for Latvia on Thursday without meeting with Phil Jackson, but he said blowing off his exit meeting with the team president is not a sign he doesn’t want to play at the Garden next season. “Of course,” Porzingis told The Post at…

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis says he wants to stay with Knicks
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:10:00 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis may not want to talk to team president Phil Jackson right now, but he still wants to remain a Knick.

  • [NYTimes] Rockets Survive Russell Westbrook’s Onslaught to Beat Thunder Again
    (Thursday, April 20, 2017 4:18:54 AM)

    Westbrook had 51 points in the highest-scoring triple-double in playoff history, but the Rockets took at 2-0 lead in the series.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks will have seventh slot in upcoming NBA Draft Lottery
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:15:12 AM)

    The Knicks, who finished the season 31-51 and missed the playoffs for the fourth consecutive season, will have the seventh slot in the 2017 NBA Draft Lottery.

  • [SNY Knicks] Kurt Rambis ‘beyond unpopular’ with Knicks players
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 10:40:55 AM)

    Knicks assistant coach Kurt Rambis is “beyond unpopular” with Knicks players, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports.

  • 126 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.20)

    1. fmikieo

      Kurt Rambis has about as bad of a track record as anyone I’ve ever seen in any sport. There is no justification for keeping him on the coaching staff.

      Doing so undermines management.

      Let Hornachek pick his own defensive guru.

    2. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Melo is still a sanctimonious hypocrite for claiming that he had to stay in New York for his beloved family while at the same time shtupping a stripper. Nothing has changed since yesterday.

    3. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Pretty sure you can simultaneously care about your family and organize your life around them while also being a bad husband

    4. Ingmarrr

      @5 – naaa…. it’s obviously the nature of people to have contradictions but when you cheat on your wife, your idea of caring about her has a very, very narrow meaning.

    5. Philmelo

      You can slice it anyway you want, but extramarital cheating ruins marriages which often result in the breaking up of families. So, yes, someone can fuck lots of women on the side behind their wife’s back but doesn’t change the fact that they are jeopardizing the basis of their family in the process. Dual nature or not, its playing with dynamite and then claiming you didn’t want your hand to blow up when it happens.

      But either way, this debate is tedious. We don’t know what happened in that marriage and there are lots of contradictory rumors circling around. I just hope that Melo is traded so he and everyone else can move beyond this chapter in Knicks history.

    6. swiftandabundant

      I get that. I’m not condoning it. But using him cheating on his wife as any reason for Melo to leave is beyond ridiculous. the NBA and all of professional sports is full of men who cheat on their wives. Many of them are AMAZING athletes and players who have won championships and are the definition of leaders and good influences on their teammate. What happens on the court, in practice, in the locker room, with the team, has zero effect on what happens when they are off the clock. Jason Kidd is considered the example of the best kind of unselfish championship caliber teammate and he beat his wife and had DUIs.

      There are so many reasons to want Melo gone. This is not one of them. And quite frankly, none of us regular dudes knows what its like to be an NBA player, let alone a super successful one. These dudes literally have hot girls in every major city throwing themselves at them all the time. Most of us are lucky if every once in awhile an 8 flirts with us. These dudes have 9s and 10s going after them regularly.

    7. chrisk06811

      I wonder….if Boston finishes first and loses in the first round, does that make them change paths and maybe want a player like Melo? they arent’ trading us the Brooklyn pick this year…..but, maybe they trade us Brooklyn’s 1 next year?

      It’s hard to make the salaries work, because Amir Johnson and his $12M leave this year….I wonder if they can sign and trade him for 1 year? If so, they draft a PG and trade us Smart, Zoeller and Amir, plus the 2018 Brooklyn pick?

    8. wetbandit

      Looking at twitter, and that combo Locked on Knicks vs Locked on Lakers trade negotiation podcast, lots of stupid Knicks fans who hated on this deal:

      Knicks give: Carmelo, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee
      Knicks take: Deng, Jordan Clarkson, Corey Brewer, Julius Randle, 2017 Houston 1st rounder (27), 2020 or 2021 Lakers 1st rounder

      Taking back bad contracts AND taking first rounders (and youth) is exactly what we should be doing!!!!

    9. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I personally think that fake-tanned, bleached-blonde chain-restaurant waitresses were the reason Tiger Woods won all those tournaments, but that’s just a suspicion based on my own personal empirical evidence

    10. stratomatic

      Most of us are lucky if every once in awhile an 8 flirts with us.

      I’m 58. I’d be happy with a 6 or 7. :-)

    11. bobneptune

      Looking at twitter, and that combo Locked on Knicks vs Locked on Lakers trade negotiation podcast, lots of stupid Knicks fans who hated on this deal:

      Knicks give: Carmelo, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee
      Knicks take: Deng, Jordan Clarkson, Corey Brewer, Julius Randle, 2017 Houston 1st rounder (27), 2020 or 2021 Lakers 1st rounder

      Taking back bad contracts AND taking first rounders (and youth) is exactly what we should be doing!!!!

      Nothing wrong with the theory, but Randle is the only thing there that vaguely resembles a basketball player. Do you take 108 million back in mostly dead contracts for 3 years to get Houston’s #27 pick and an nebulous 5 year out pick? That’s a lot of money to spend for 2 picks and a decidedly below average player.

      I’m not questioning the idea, just the cost/benefit analysis.

    12. 2FOR18

      @10 I’d do that deal before they changed their minds if that were a real life offer. We could get OG, Kennard, Giles or Thornwell with that 27th pick.

    13. english_knick

      @9 – Boston wouldn’t need to closely match salaries because with Johnson and Jerebko off the books they are due to be under the cap by about $30m. They can just absorb Melo salary-wise. But best case I think is they try to sign Hayward or trade for PG or Butler, and only if they strike out there, consider Melo.

      If that happens, I still don’t see them sending a young player and a high pick. Maybe a player and their own pick next year (they have theirs and Brooklyn’s in 2018), or the nets pick but no player? Perhaps a lesser young player like Rozier with their late first? They’ve got so many assets and so much flex to improve, they don’t need to get desperate for Melo…

    14. bobneptune

      @13 you left out dumping melos 54 million and his ball stopping ways on the benefit side

      I didn’t leave it out…. I’m just wondering if there isn’t a better way to move Melo than to take back twice as many dollars for a longer period of time?

    15. Donnie Walsh

      extramarital cheating ruins marriages which often result in the breaking up of families.

      Monogamy is the construct of an overbearing, often paternalistic, social order. There is no monogamy in nature. To insist upon it, one is asking individuals to act against their own nature: not unlike asking Carmelo Anthony to pass out of an isolation, or take a pay cut.

      The solution: get rid of the archaic institution of marriage (…seriously, it’s as outdated as per game statistics).

    16. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Monogamy is the construct of an overbearing, often paternalistic, social order. There is no monogamy in nature. To insist upon it, one is asking individuals to act against their own nature: not unlike asking Carmelo Anthony to pass out of an isolation, or take a pay cut.

      ahahhaahh perfection

    17. stratomatic

      This would be a very risky move given his injury history, but Gallinari may opt out. If we trade Melo and bring back Gallo as a FA I think that would be a great fit. incoming :-)

    18. Frank

      NewsFlash – no FAs will want to come to our dumpster fire of a team unless we massively overpay. we have relatively high state taxes also.

      That is— unless this coup that I really think Melo, KP, and the NBPA are trying to pull off actually happens.

    19. bobneptune

      Sixers have 35M on the books for next year, Simmons, Embid, Okafor and a plethora of picks. 75 minutes from Manhattan….

    20. stratomatic

      The solution: get rid of the archaic institution of marriage (…seriously, it’s as outdated as per game statistics).

      That particular solution comes with a boatload of other problems. Marriage did not evolve thousands of year ago because people were dumb. They organized themselves in a way that produced the best results. Monogamous committed relationships still have a general advantage when children are involved. Modern people just think they are smarter.

    21. djphan

      looking at potential FAs.. it’s hard to believe that james young is still only 21… he hasn’t played all that much but he looks like a decent sign if we’re looking for a justin holiday replacement…

    22. bobneptune

      And while I’m at it, how about our 7’3″ 2 guard STFU at least he gives us something better than 4200 minutes of distinctly average NBA basketball. Maybe get in some sort of shape where your production doesn’t crash after 30 games your first two seasons?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdQCPlAZjbY

    23. nicos

      Knicks give: Carmelo, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee
      Knicks take: Deng, Jordan Clarkson, Corey Brewer, Julius Randle, 2017 Houston 1st rounder (27), 2020 or 2021 Lakers 1st rounder

      Taking back bad contracts AND taking first rounders (and youth) is exactly what we should be doing!!!!

      Only if we plan on sucking for the next three years- it’s not just that we’d be taking back as much dead salary as we’d be shipping out but that’s four roster spots taken up by guys who won’t help at all (besides perhaps Randle). That’s too much to take on for a late first rounder and the prospect of another first (which would probably be protected) down the line. I’d rather just stretch Melo and scour the d-league/overseas for cheaper prospects.

    24. wetbandit

      I honestly don’t care who they take back, as long as it comes with picks and young players like Randle. I was assuming the Lakers pick would be unprotected. But if we can just do Melo for Deng and 3 first rounders I’m happy. Couldn’t care less about LT and Lee, as well as Deng and Brewer- if we suck, we can just get better draft position.

    25. JK47

      Melo for Deng and the Rockets’ 2017 pick, with Corey Brewer thrown in to make salaries work. Magic would probably do that, no?

    26. JK47

      I honestly don’t care who they take back, as long as it comes with picks and young players like Randle. I was assuming the Lakers pick would be unprotected. But if we can just do Melo for Deng and 3 first rounders I’m happy.

      That would be way too much for the Lakers to give up. We’re not getting anything back for Anthony other than a marginal asset. I highly doubt the Lakers are going to throw in a legitimate asset like Randle and they are certainly not sending us three first rounders.

    27. swiftandabundant

      I still say Clips or Cavs are gonna be the best bet for a Melo trade. CP3 and Lebron have HUGE influence on those teams as far as personnel decisions and both of them have the utmost respect for Melo (and Melo would easily play the second fiddle role with this guys and not complain). I know we think Melo sucks and is in decline but pair him with Lebron or CP3 and its a different story.

      Side note – you think its possible Lebron could orchestrate some sort of CP3 and Melo to the Cavs deal this summer? IE, the banana boat?

      CP3 is a free agent. Do a sign and trade with the Clips for CP3 and Irving. Then ship out Love to the Knicks (with Boston involved maybe so Love ends up there?)

      I don’t know. Crazy but Clips are not going anywhere. Cavs are still going to be a ECF/Finals team but can’t get over the hump. Isn’t wade a free agent too?

    28. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I know we think Melo sucks and is in decline but pair him with Lebron or CP3 and its a different story.

      Sort of like how if you put Bargnani next to Carmelo, he’ll reach unforeseen production heights? How the 2013-14 Knicks were closer to a championship than they were in 2012-13?

      Bargnani was traded to us with that in mind. The goal of a championship is much closer in sight than it was last summer. And as the article states, its not really big hit on us and doesn’t hinder us after 2015 at all. The people who are against the Bargnani trade seem to ignore the fact that of all the players involved in that trade, Bargnani is clearly the best current player and we got him in that deal.

      Please tell me how Carmelo’s going to suddenly become anything but an iso ballhog when he plays with two ball-dominant guys who love to kick it out to good 3-point shooters and guys who can actually dunk the basketball. Please.

    29. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Durant, curry

      If Durant and Curry decide to leave Golden State, they’re fools. They could compete for a championship through the remainder of their primes and Lacob has swimming pools full of money right now. They’re about to open a new arena and I bet he will reach Prokhorov levels of luxury tax to keep their core together.

    30. Philmelo

      Monogamy is the construct of an overbearing, often paternalistic, social order. There is no monogamy in nature. To insist upon it…

      I don’t insist upon anything. I simply ask for people to keep their end of the bargain. If you engage in a monogamous relationship with a child and a family keep your end of the bargain, lest you break your responsibility. And if you sign up with a Phil Jackson team at team max dollars, play his goddamned system as was the agreement.

    31. mase

      G.s. Looked as good as I have ever seen them without Durant. Do they need Durant, meaning he is not a box office draw like wade. Just saying

    32. thenoblefacehumper

      And if you sign up with a Phil Jackson team at team max dollars, play his goddamned system as was the agreement.

      That simply isn’t the way NBA contracts work. Phil Jackson decided to pay Melo $124 million dollars to play basketball for the New York Knicks. That’s it. Any change in Melo’s preferred style of play would’ve been nothing but a favor, which any GM with half a brain would’ve known was not in the cards.

    33. Philmelo

      That simply isn’t the way NBA contracts work. Phil Jackson decided to pay Melo $124 million dollars to play basketball for the New York Knicks. That’s it. Any change in Melo’s preferred style of play would’ve been nothing but a favor, which any GM with half a brain would’ve known was not in the cards.

      I am not talking about formal, legal agreements. I am talking about the informal agreement between a GM and his player moving forward into the future about what they want their team to resemble.

    34. Frank O.

      Was watching Tracy McGrady yesterday on some sports channel. He called the Bulls upset of the Celts.
      But he had some interesting stuff to say about Pat Riley and his blunt press conference about his team’s performance and being out of the playoffs for a few years. Essentially he said if they don’t make it next year, he doesn’t deserve the job.

      But McGrady pointed out several players Miami has been able to rehab. Then he said The Heat and Melo would be a perfect match.
      So, I’m all for Melo bringing his talents to Miami.

    35. thenoblefacehumper

      I am not talking about formal, legal agreements. I am talking about the informal agreement between a GM and his player moving forward into the future about what they want their team to resemble.

      I get it, but again, there’s no way to argue that it was anything but very stupid of Phil Jackson to think Melo would radically change his play for the better at age 30 after 11 NBA seasons.

      Melo has played at a perfectly predictable level since the contract was signed. He was an above average player when he signed it coming off his age 29 season, and now he’s a net negative at age 32. That’s not remotely surprising. He never had much room to decline and still be productive.

    36. Philmelo

      I get it, but again, there’s no way to argue that it was anything but very stupid of Phil Jackson to think Melo would radically change his play for the better at age 30 after 11 NBA seasons.

      That’s like arguing LaLa was stupid to marry an NBA player and expect monogamy. An agreement is an agreement.

    37. JK47

      “Melo didn’t play the triangle right” is such a red herring.

      “Melo is not really that great a basketball player” is the real issue here.

    38. the don nelson era

      @41 interesting analogy. Following through, is Melo going to feel as stupid about no pre-nup as Phil surely does for giving the NTC?

    39. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      G.s. Looked as good as I have ever seen them without Durant. Do they need Durant, meaning he is not a box office draw like wade. Just saying

      Have you seen them with Durant?

      Warriors were #1 in PPP with 1.156. League average was 1.088.

      Standard deviation from mean: 0.0332

      PPP with Durant on floor: 1.212 (what the fuck)
      PPP without Durant on floor 1.114 (ranked 7th)

      The Warriors were 0.72 standard deviations from mean without Durant on the floor. This is about a ~75th percentile team given a normal distribution (bell curve). Combined with their #2 ranked PPP defense, that’s a recipe for a good team.

      With Durant? 3.73 standard deviations from mean. 99.9th percentile.

      This isn’t all that scientific, but they were much, much, much better on offense with Durant on the floor. They are a great team without him, but a legendary one with him.

    40. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      “Melo is not really that great a basketball player” is the real issue here.

      I think there’s a possibility that he makes it to a Finals in the early Aughts when ISO midrange was gospel. It’s not anymore. All you have to do is watch the Warriors, Spurs, Cavs and Rockets to know it’s not. Maybe if he plays the wing next to Shaq in 2001, he wins a title. It’s 2017.

    41. thenoblefacehumper

      That’s like arguing LaLa was stupid to marry an NBA player and expect monogamy. An agreement is an agreement.

      Like you just said, there was no formal agreement in place that Melo had to do anything but chuck up shots as he had been doing for the past 11 seasons. Unlike a marriage, there’s no divorce option in a guaranteed NBA contract.

      Phil Jackson makes more money in a month than most people make in a lifetime. Would it really have been unreasonable to ask him to study the history of NBA players radically altering their tendencies after 11 seasons? Or maybe study the history of players remaining productive into their 30s? Neither thing happens much at all. Melo’s dip in productivity could’ve been seen from a mile away, and what do you know? It was!

    42. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      There really isn’t a hole in Durant’s game. He’s going to be that guy who picks up a couple rings late in his career because a 7′ guy who has a beautiful 35-foot jumper and can basically dunk flat-footed is a rare and precious thing in this league.

    43. stratomatic

      The major problem with trading Melo is that at his age and price you sort of have to be crazy to trade for him unless you think he’s the final piece of the puzzle and you are ready to go “all in” (who is going to think that?) or you can unload worse contracts/players.

    44. SJK

      An agreement is an agreement.

      No it’s not. A written agreement that has been signed by all concerned parties is something that can’t be broken without legal ramifications. A handshake agreement to “play the right way” doesn’t mean much 3 years into a contract when the executive in question built a complete dumpster fire of a team 3 years in a row. And while we’re talking about hypothetical agreements, how bout the one where Phil promises to build Melo a team that can compete for the waning years of his prime. Phil is easily more culpable in failing Melo in that respect than Melo is in failing Phil by not wanting to play triangle-ball.

      I mean, it’s a ridiculous argument you’re making. Maybe if Phil wanted Melo to play the “right” way he should’ve appointed a head coach who actually has the capacity to coach whatever system he wants without being undermined, or maybe he should have surrounded him with players that fit his strengths rather than the corpse of Joakim Noah and contract-year, no-knees left Derrick Rose.

      Melo is far from a perfect basketball player. One of Phil’s most impressive accomplishments is that he’s somehow made Melo come out of all this smelling like roses. The guy should be treated as a complete joke of an executive until he proves otherwise.

    45. JK47

      I think Melo to the Lakers is a very realistic and possible scenario.

      I’ve lived in LA for 20 years so I understand Laker fan culture. It’s not a diehard, loyalist fan culture. For the most part, people just utterly stop caring about the Lakers when they’re not very good. D’Angelo Russell and Brandon Ingram and Julius Randle have had zero impact on the sports scene here, those guys are not major names in this town. There is very little excitement surrounding this mediocre Laker team and its slow and underwhelming rebuild. The young guys they have all spent high lottery picks on are all kind of ass.

      But if the Lakers traded for Carmelo Anthony, well all of a sudden that would spark some interest among this breed of casual Laker fan. And he would actually represent an upgrade over the stiff he would likely be replacing, Luol Deng. And his contract is shorter than Deng’s. And it would probably only cost a minimal asset like the Houston pick to acquire Melo. Melo wouldn’t be a franchise killer to the Lakers, he’d probably be good for their brand honestly. They’d sell some jerseys and a few extra tickets, with very little difference to their long-term rebuilding project.

      It makes a lot of sense.

    46. rama

      The solution: get rid of the archaic institution of marriage (…seriously, it’s as outdated as per game statistics).

      That particular solution comes with a boatload of other problems. Marriage did not evolve thousands of year ago because people were dumb. They organized themselves in a way that produced the best results. Monogamous committed relationships still have a general advantage when children are involved. Modern people just think they are smarter.

      In case anyone is interested, there is a very strong contra-argument against this in a book called SEX AT DAWN. A friend recommended it a few years ago, and I avoided it because it sounded like crap from the title, but it’s actually a well-researched overview of the historical development of sex roles, especially as they changed radically upon the onset of agriculture.

    47. chrisk06811

      Does anyone know…..if we were to trade Melo, and the trade kicker was to kick in…..are the Knicks allowed to pay that and have it impact their cap, or does the receiving team have to?

    48. Philmelo

      A handshake agreement to “play the right way” doesn’t mean much 3 years into a contract when the executive in question built a complete dumpster fire of a team 3 years in a row.

      Of course it does, Melo signed off on most of these “dumpster fire” moves. He signed off on the Noah and Rose deals. Look it up.

    49. thenoblefacehumper

      Of course it does, Melo signed off on most of these “dumpster fire” moves. He signed off on the Noah and Rose deals. Look it up.

      Was part of the “agreement” also that Melo was supposed to stop Phil Jackson from doing stupid things?

    50. SJK

      It means absolutely nothing that Melo signed off on the moves. Melo’s job is not evaluate potential roster moves and sign off on them. His job is to play basketball games. As far as we know, there is nothing in his contract about signing-off on trades, nor is there anything about signing up for the triangle.

      Phil’s job, however, is explicitly to evaluate and make roster moves.

      If you want, we can argue over whether Melo is worse at playing basketball games than Phil is at making roster moves, but it’s pretty cut and dry at this point.

    51. JK47

      Melo played the triangle for the most part. Remember last year, when he was “Dad Melo.” He gave it a go. This year the idea was that the Knicks were supposed to get away from the triangle somewhat. They did, and the offense was pretty much league average for most of the season. I don’t really think the whole “Melo wouldn’t play the right way” argument works. He is just NOT THAT GOOD. He’s a scorer, that’s all he’s ever been. If you ask Dominique Wilkins to start playing like Larry Bird at age 30, he’s not going to be able to do it. Dominique can try, but at the end of the day he’s still Dominique. Phil was hoping to turn Melo into a poor man’s LeBron. It failed utterly, because Melo is nowhere on the same plane as LeBron talent-wise.

      Melo is what he always was. He’s a scorer. He doesn’t have the strength or athleticism or instincts to play great defense. He’s also a tweener– too slow to successfully guard 3’s, and too small to bang with 4’s. He doesn’t really have great court vision and he’s not a great rebounder. He has been remarkably consistent throughout his career, with his production improving and declining just as you would expect it to given his age.

      You shouldn’t take a player with eighty gazillion minutes in the NBA and try to turn him into something else. It is probably not going to work.

    52. kevin5318

      Of course it does, Melo signed off on most of these “dumpster fire” moves. He signed off on the Noah and Rose deals. Look it up.

      What are you even trying to argue here?

    53. GoNyGoNyGo

      Melo is what he always was. He’s a scorer. He doesn’t have the strength or athleticism or instincts to play great defense. He’s also a tweener– too slow to successfully guard 3’s, and too small to bang with 4’s. He doesn’t really have great court vision and he’s not a great rebounder. He has been remarkably consistent throughout his career, with his production improving and declining just as you would expect it to given his age.

      I call full-out BS on that. I’ve seen him defend when he wants to. He’s the only person I’ve ever seen give LeBron a hard time. Melo’s problem is that he doesn’t want to expend energy defending or grabbing rebounds.

      By the way, that’s another thing that makes Melo a heaping pile of steaming dung. There are many other players that don’t have the skill, strength or savvy but have the will. Look at a guy like Dellavedova. All heart and desire. Screw Melo.

    54. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      As I was the first to state days ago, Melo to the Lakers can make good sense to all parties. We could ask for any combination of Randle, Clarkson, Deng plus draft choices and if we even receive two of those then we’re well ahead of the game and the Lakers have their Hollywood “star.”

    55. bidiong

      Yeah, Melo has a definite effort issue when it comes to defense. I don’t even think he has low BB IQ. It seems to me he thinks he’s more talented than he is and he wants to cruise along based on his talent.

    56. Zanzibar

      Phil has only succeeded when he’s had all-time greats but believes he’s a genius.
      Melo is a “has been” who thinks he’s still a star.
      Porzingis is a “never was” who thinks he’s a star.

      Bottom Line: Too many inflated egos.
      Solution: (1) Melo for Deng/D’Angelo (2) KP/KOQ for Nets 2017 and 2018 picks/Zeller

    57. stratomatic

      I could do without a few years of Deng and I’m not thrilled with Clarkson. I’ll pass.

    58. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Some of you may have missed my point about family Melo. I really don’t give a damn if he’s faithful to his wife or not. What irks me is that he continually cloaked himself in an air of the quintessential family man when he was nothing of the sort. He’s a fraud.

    59. stratomatic

      In case anyone is interested, there is a very strong contra-argument against this in a book called SEX AT DAWN. A friend recommended it a few years ago, and I avoided it because it sounded like crap from the title, but it’s actually a well-researched overview of the historical development of sex roles, especially as they changed radically upon the onset of agriculture.

      Loads of people that write about the subject of sex and marriage have political and other agendas. I’m calling BS on all of it. I’m 58 years old. I’ve seen our culture change and I’ve seen the impact. I don’t need theories. I have family, friends, and a lifetime of experience and observation to know what works better. About the only theory I have is that people thousands of years ago were just as smart as we were. They observed the same things I have observed and that’s why they stressed certain behaviors using either religion or other societal pressures. We are basically brainwashed nitwits.

    60. SJK

      Some of you may have missed my point about family Melo. I really don’t give a damn if he’s faithful to his wife or not. What irks me is that he continually cloaked himself in an air of the quintessential family man when he was nothing of the sort. He’s a fraud.

      I’d suggest you stop worrying about what types of people professional athletes are. For the most part it has no impact on their on court product and, news flash, most of them are not saints.

      I could do without a few years of Deng and I’m not thrilled with Clarkson. I’ll pass.

      This team is at a point in it’s life cycle where all the improvements we make should come from young players on rookie-scale deals developing. The opportunity cost to taking on Deng is marginal. We don’t need another Courtney Lee signing. On the other hand, the benefit is we get three-four flyers that could develop into useful pieces: Randle, two first rounders, and Clarkson depending how you view him (yes I realize he’s not a rookie deal).

    61. Philmelo

      Was part of the “agreement” also that Melo was supposed to stop Phil Jackson from doing stupid things?

      Apparently so, but here’s the problem: Melo signs off on the stupid shit to build a win team now team. Here’s him on the Derrick Rose trade last offseason:

      Anthony is very pleased that Rose has joined the Knicks.

      “Nobody expected that, so that was a good first step for us,” Anthony said. “I thought we had to step up to the plate and make a splash some kind of way.”

    62. GoNyGoNyGo

      Reub – he is a fraud. But I do care if he’s faithful or not. When did it become OK to cheat on your wife? Have we lowered the bar? He has a kid. What example does that set? And what example does it set for KP, Wily and Kuz? Do we need this?

    63. DRed

      He’s the only person I’ve ever seen give LeBron a hard time.

      I guess you’ve never watched Lebron play the Spurs?

      Melo’s time as a good player is almost certainly done. If we are sure he’ll opt out after next season I’d rather keep him than take back long term money. If not I guess we could just cut or stretch him.

      Obviously, I wouldn’t mind trading him for another productive player on a longer deal, but I have trouble imagining that happening.

    64. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Ron Baker has recently participated in an epic Q&A session over at Reddit:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/64l5yj/im_ron_baker_excited_to_be_here_ama/?st=j1qxs7cu&sh=af3fa672

      He wants to be called “Bake” (loves cooking) and prefers Dove MenCare Shampoo. He explains that he chose #31 to honor Clint Johnson, who played for his father and then coached Ron before passing away. That was his number also. He worshipped Kirk Hinrich growing up and loves his Hyundai, which gets 28 mpg. The interview is loads of fun and makes you want to root for him even more.

      Oh, and his favorite shape is a rectangle. Lol!

    65. kevin5318

      Apparently so, but here’s the problem: Melo signs off on the stupid shit to build a win team now team. Here’s him on the Derrick Rose trade last offseason

      What did you want Melo to do about it? Trash his new teammate?

    66. thenoblefacehumper

      Apparently so, but here’s the problem: Melo signs off on the stupid shit to build a win team now team. Here’s him on the Derrick Rose trade last offseason:

      Dude, what in the world is your point? I’ll ask again; was Melo supposed to be some kind of assistant GM? What the hell does Melo not openly bashing Phil Jackson’s moves have to do with anything?

      If anything, it just confirms that Phil truly believed he could turn Melo into an entirely different player after 11 seasons and build a team around him that would be ready to contend very quickly. That’s batshit insane.

    67. english_knick

      @53 – pretty sure the answer is the knocks have to pay it but it has to hit the receiving team’s cap. So we can’t get round it that way. I believe there are some scenarios where Melo can waive the kicker to make a certain trade work but I’m not sure what they are and they are pretty limited – for example, for some reason he wouldn’t have been able to waive it for the clippers this year.

    68. english_knick

      I’m in complete agreement with those who think taking on a contract like Deng is not a problem in the right deal – i.e. One that gets us picks/ young high upside players.

      No premium free agent is signing with us for the next couple of years. So cap space is only useful in facilitating one sided trades that net assets. It will definitely take us two or three years to even approach good. So using up space on ‘dead’ deals between now and then shouldn’t worry us. We need the space when our rookies reach their second contracts and when we are. Ack in a position to attract good players as FAs – personally I’d say anything running up to 2020 when Noah and lee come off is fine. There are a lot of bad contracts out there of exactly that length because a four year deal signed in the cap frenzy last summer ends in 2020

      I’m looking at LA – de g, moz; Portland – crabbe, Turner; Indiana – Ellis as good examples of teams with low first round picks who might give them up to lose some of those deals. Not just for Melo – but also into our space or for lee, KOQ etc.

    69. er

      Look at a guy like Dellavedova. All heart and desire

      Haha I was waiting for the NFL draft for these types of race based analysis

    70. er

      Reub – he is a fraud. But I do care if he’s faithful or not. When did it become OK to cheat on your wife? Have we lowered the bar? He has a kid. What example does that set? And what example does it set for KP, Wily and Kuz? Do we need this?

      First off we don’t know if the rumors are true. Second KP comes from a strong two parent home. If melo is more of an influence than his parents, then that’s on KP for being weak and impressionable

    71. yellowboy90

      Also, saying you are happy someone is on your team or that you are glad your team did something is completely different than signing off on a deal.

      What I think of as signing off is when your team goes to you before the deal is done and asks for your opinion. No one did this.

    72. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I’m 58 years old. I’ve seen our culture change and I’ve seen the impact. I don’t need theories. I have family, friends, and a lifetime of experience and observation to know what works better.

      this reads as satire

    73. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Doesn’t anybody here care about Bake’s use of Dove MenCare Shampoo?
      What’s wrong with you guys?

    74. swiftandabundant

      Jowles – when I try to write your name on my phone it autocorrects to Bowles which is fitting.

      Did you really pull a quote from me from 4 years ago to nitpick a casual post I made? You do realize that by bringing up that quote you actually just compared Lebron and CP3 to bargs which is insane. Question – do love, shump, JR, Blake, etc…play better when they are paired with Lebron or CP3? If so then that basically proves my point. But that’s beside the point bc I was just theoreizing that I think the cavs and clips are still the most likely places for Melo to go bc of his relationship with those guys. But please be a jerk again and pick apart another persons post for no fucking reason.

    75. Brian Cronin

      I’ve seen him defend when he wants to. He’s the only person I’ve ever seen give LeBron a hard time.

      I mean, I suppose it could be true, but perhaps you just haven’t seen very many Lebron James games then? Tyson Chandler famously guarded Lebron very well in the 2011 NBA Finals, directly leading to Lebron becoming a post player finally (which was the one area he had not yet mastered at the time). Kawhi Leonard also famously guarded Lebron James very well in the NBA Finals. Those are just two very famous examples of defenders playing Lebron extremely well.

    76. stratomatic

      this reads as satire

      It’s not.

      It’s a well though out view based on decades of observation and real life experience as opposed to idealistic delusions and prevailing political fashions.

      In a world that is generally seeing social and economic progress, we have regressed in some ways.

      The world is way more nuanced than some people make it out to be. There are no hard fast rules that apply to all situations. However, in general, when you consider all the factors that work to either advantage or disadvantage children, a child is generally better off with 2 monogamous married parents, including one at home.

      Melo can continue to be a great father and provide anything and everything his son needs, but if you think his infidelities and breakup are insignificant or that marriage is irrelevant, you are sadly mistaken. The stability of marriage alone helps children, let alone everything else.

    77. Brian Cronin

      I do agree that Melo gives Lebron a hard time but that’s when Melo is on offense.

      So you disagree, then? :)

    78. MSA

      I’ve seen him defend when he wants to. He’s the only person I’ve ever seen give LeBron a hard time.

      Sorry, but this is just not true.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=LeBron+James&player_id1_select=LeBron+James&player_id1=jamesle01&player_id2_hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id2_select=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id2=anthoca01

      Melo isn’t stoping Lebron and his .54 eFG% and Lebron doesn’t seem to have too much trouble with Melo’s .44 eFG%

      Except for 3P%, his numbers are almost the same as in his career averages.

      He just look more active because he’s playing Lebron and it’s usually on national TV

    79. DRed

      The best part of reading that old Melo thread is feeling smugger and smugger after every comment of mine I read

      “I would have lowballed him-like 70/4 and let him walk if he didn’t like it. 5 years/120 is a ridiculous overpay”

      Get ’em DRed-they should have made you GM instead of Phil

    80. GoNyGoNyGo

      @ER
      blockquote>Haha I was waiting for the NFL draft for these types of race based analysis
      Damn. I never saw color. Sorry. I forgive you for that slight.

      Exchange for Rodman/Oakley/Mason. Same thing. I just decided to pick a scrappy little guy and his play with Cavs in the playoffs a couple of years was the first thing to come to mind.

      And as far as KP coming from a good home, we just have to hope. But I would rather have a leader like who help teach kids how to be good men.

    81. er

      @90 those numbers have shifted heavily towards Lebron when he went to Miami. Pre Miami the numbers were similar and Melo had good numbers. The last couple years I think he’s been pretty bad against lebron

    82. thenoblefacehumper

      Looking at that old thread about the Melo signing, people give him guff, but you gotta give ruruland credit for owning that he was wrong about the big discount Melo was going to give the Knicks and not only that, but he specifically expressed disappointment at the deal.

      I would definitely be interested in what ruruland thinks about everything Melo related that has happened recently. His predictions were always a bit difficult to take seriously, but he did at least try to back them up with some (admittedly cherry picked) facts and usually copped up to them being wrong. I’d genuinely like to know why he thinks the Melo triangle experiment went totally off the rails, for example, because he was pretty excited about it.

    83. GoNyGoNyGo

      @90 – Yeah. Regular season. When Melo never played defense.
      Look at their face-to-face playoff games. Look at ALL the stats. Eerie. And watch those games.

      And yeah. I’ve seen other players defend LeBron well. My hyperbole is exposed.

    84. DRed

      Cronin, I can find you tons of Lamestream media articles saying it might not be a great deal but it was pretty fair and the Knicks were doing what they had to do. The glaringly obvious move was to let Melo walk and that was very much a minority opinion.

    85. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      The world is way more nuanced than some people make it out to be.

      Didn’t you just tell us that you don’t believe in “theories” and only go on your anecdotal evidence? Da fuq am I reading?

    86. Brian Cronin

      Cronin, I can find you tons of Lamestream media articles saying it might not be a great deal but it was pretty fair and the Knicks were doing what they had to do. The glaringly obvious move was to let Melo walk and that was very much a minority opinion.

      Oh sure, elsewhere, but I’d like to think that most of us were pretty much deadset against MegaMaxMelo at the time. And here’s the craziest thing – the only reason the deal doesn’t even look even worse is because there was no gradual cap increase, and at the time, that’s exactly what people thought that there would be (Jackson’s moves in 2014 don’t make even the slightest bit of sense if he was thinking that the cap was going to explode in 2015 and then again in 2016 – most teams were working under the presumption that the cap would go up gradually).

    87. thenoblefacehumper

      Cronin, I can find you tons of Lamestream media articles saying it might not be a great deal but it was pretty fair and the Knicks were doing what they had to do. The glaringly obvious move was to let Melo walk and that was very much a minority opinion.

      What really hurts is we probably could’ve gotten two Chicago firsts for him, though I agree that even letting him walk for nothing would’ve been way better than re-signing him.

    88. ptmilo

      @90 those numbers have shifted heavily towards Lebron when he went to Miami. Pre Miami the numbers were similar and Melo had good numbers. The last couple years I think he’s been pretty bad against lebron

      Also not true. Before Lebron went to Miami, Melo averaged 21.3 ppg on TS% of only 51% against Lebron.

    89. stratomatic

      Didn’t you just tell us that you don’t believe in “theories” and only go on your anecdotal evidence? Da fuq am I reading?

      I don’t believe in theories proposed by people with agendas, which these days covers practically everyone that is supposed to be informing us in a unbiased way.

      IMO, it’s not that complicated.

      There are people in this world that think there is only one right way. They are typically driven by religious conviction.

      There are people in this world that think everything is subjective, no one should judge, it’s all relative etc..

      IMO they are both FOS. The world is nuanced.

      Some marriages are so dysfunctional, the children would be better off if their parents divorced.

      Some single people are so “together” emotionally and financially, they might do a better job of raising a child by themselves than the average traditional family.

      However, there are objective and measurable life choices that WILL do better on average. So IMO, those should be encouraged. Committed monogamous marriage is one of the things that improves the probability of getting an emotionally stable child with all the essential material and emotional needs satisfied.

      My experience is not just empirical. I was alive to not only observe family and friends and the results of their various life choices over decades. I have observed what the country was like decades ago and what’s it’s like now. I have seen all that we are doing better now and all that we are doing worse without all the spin, agenda, and political fashion being imposed on young people’s minds.

    90. er

      Also not true. Before Lebron went to Miami, Melo averaged 21.3 ppg on TS% of only 51% against Lebron

      That may be true but melo had great games against Lebron when Lebron was an elite defender. I don’t think anyone was argujng that he averaged 30ppg, he just had good games 40point and high 30 games

    91. Grocer

      I’d be more pissed at Melo about his iso ball-hogging if the Knicks didn’t consistently enable it, running plays to set up exactly that on a regular basis. Phil signed him knowing what kind of player he was, and we ran plays every game to setup iso-Melo. Then Phil criticizes it. When Melo said “I don’t know what my role is,” no shit.

      He still sucks and needs to go.

    92. dtrickey

      Cavs have just rocketed back into this one. It must be nice having LeBron James as your best player.

    93. dtrickey

      Bucks also giving the business to the Raps. That series has actually been surprisingly entertaining. The first round hasn’t been the total shit storm it usually is.

    94. Brian Cronin

      Cavs have just rocketed back into this one. It must be nice having LeBron James as your best player.

      They might be one of the most entertaining teams to follow because no lead is ever safe with them – if they’re trailing or if they’re ahead! They make huge comebacks and they blow big leads.

    95. dtrickey

      They might be one of the most entertaining teams to follow because no lead is ever safe with them – if they’re trailing or if they’re ahead! They make huge comebacks and they blow big leads.

      No doubt. Lebron is going to need shoulder surgery this off-season from carrying 12 grown men.

    96. Brian Cronin

      Melo’s Knicks were the last team to get a first round game against Lebron, so Melo has that going for him!

    97. DRed

      Bill Simmons has been scratching his head for weeks wondering why a team with two superstars like Lebron & Kyrie couldn’t finish the season with the one seed. My dude, the answer is right there, staring you in the fucking face.

    98. Hugo Busto

      Lebron elevates his game come playoffs. I could care less what the ws48. From his young days with the series against the Pistons. Just wow. The GOAT

      And Jason Kidd definitely came prepared for this series. They are packing the paint heavy on the raptors. Demar struggling heavy. Bucks length is a real thing.
      And on the flip side Raps I don’t think have adjusted well

    99. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Lebron elevates his game come playoffs. I could care less what the ws48. From his young days with the series against the Pistons. Just wow. The GOAT

      No, playoff WS48 definitely says LeBron is a GOAT candidate.

    100. DRed

      Milwaukee’s defense seems to be coming together with Thon Maker, of all people. And Giannis gives them a chance to have the best player on the floor in a series against just about anyone. I don’t think they have enough good players, but if Middleton can keep playing like he did tonight I sure wouldn’t want to play them.

    101. Brian Cronin

      The Knicks are almost certainly going to keep KP past this initial rookie contract, but it’s fascinating to know that the whole “Charlie Ward is the last first round draft pick by the Knicks to play on the team past their rookie contract” stat is still somehow in play (as both THJ and Grant have been dealt).

    102. Brian Cronin

      Seems hard to believe that anyone else could beat that. Ward was re-signed in 1999 and they haven’t re-signed a first round pick since. Dolan took over in 2000. Hmmmmmmm….

    103. #firePhilJackson

      Fire Rambis!

      Phil has said Rambis knows everything he knows in basketball (see last press conference) so this is even a bigger pipe dream .

      Remember 3pt shooting Knicks 12/13 was fun to watch

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