Knicks 2017 Summer League Roster Breakdown

With the Knicks summer league right around the corner, I thought I’d look at some of the lesser known prospects and give my opinion on them.

Jamel Artis SF, 6-7, 23
Artis is an empty scorer. Other than scoring and a moderate amount of rebounding (6.7 reb/40), he adds literally nothing else. With 0.7 stl/40 and 0.5 blk/40 he will get roasted on defense. On offense he can hit from downtown (37.8%) and gets to the free throw line (5.2 fta/40), so he’s not really a Novak-style bomber, but seems to able to score in a multitude of ways. But I have a hard time seeing him as a net positive on an NBA team.

Canyon Barry SG, 6-6, 24
Yes he from that Barry family. Unfortunately the distance between him and Jon, Brent, and Rick is a chasm. Much like Artis, Barry can kinda hit from downtown (33.6%) and get to the line (6.9 fta/40), but he doesn’t do much else other than rebound at a mediocre rate. Additionally his AST/TO ratio (1.2 ast/40 to 1.7 to/40) is underwater, which doesn’t bode well for his vision.

Damyean Dotson SG, 6-6, 23
I spoke about Dotson’s basketball ability previously, and he rates to be a decent prospect. On the other hand it’s also entirely possible that Dotson is an awful person, so there’s that.

Nigel Hayes F, 6-8, 22
A combo forward, that really doesn’t project well. Hayes appears to be a power forward in a tweener’s body. A non-existent three point shot (31.4%), sub-par 2p% (48.8%), laughable free throw percentage (58.7% last year, 66.6% career) with weak blocks and steals. Passing is the only thing he does reasonably well (2.9 ast/40), but I’ll still pass on Hayes.

Dominique Jones, G, 6-4, 28
Jones played for the Mavs for 3 seasons a few years back before playing overseas, and the big knock against him is that Jones can’t shoot, especially from three (9.5%, that’s right less than 10%). In Iran Dominique only managed to knock down 30.9% of his long range shots, so it doesn’t appear that he’s resolved that issue to an NBA level. Too bad, as it seems he’s a good distributor, and averaged nearly 2 steals (1.8 stl/40) in his last NBA stop.

Luke Kornet PF, 7-1, 21
I’m listing him as a PF, because he can’t play center. Well the Knicks will put him at center, but he has no business being there. Why?

The 7-footer struggles with grit and physicality in traffic, averaging only 6.0 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes, the third worst among centers in the DraftExpress Top 100.

Yikes! Kornet’s game seems interesting as a shot blocking/three point shooter at F. But his rebounding (7.9 reb/40) was atrocious at college, and his three point shooting was poor as well (32.7%). So as a prospect, Kornet kinda blows.

Louis Labeyrie PF, 6-10, 25
One of the Porteur de culottes, we’ve talked about Labeyrie before here and here. The Gonessean has 6 years experience in France, and is a strong offensive rebounder and inside scorer. Recently he’s branched out to three point land, with mixed results. Last I recall he played with a chip on his shoulder, that along with his rebounding might be a good fit alongside Porzingis.

Maurice Ndour F, 6-9, 25
Knicks saw 331 minutes of Ndour last year, and his stats were end-of-benchish. He needs to be more productive to get more than garbage time minutes.

Frank Ntilikina PG, 6-5, 18
Another of the Porteur de culottes, there are only 3 things you need to think about with this kid. First is that he’s only 18 years old. He’s got 3-4 years before you can make any lasting decision about him.

Second, it’s dumb to think that the Knicks drafted him as a triangle PG and now that Jackson and his three sided offense is gone, the Knicks are left with a mistake on their hands. This isn’t Steve Kerr or Derek Fisher, and he’s not the NBA version of a fullback, worthless outside of a unique offensive scheme. This is a legit NBA prospect, and if the Mavs traded up to get him, we’d be gnashing our teeth over not having him.

Third, THE KID IS 18 YEARS OLD. DON’T FORGET IT!

Marshall Plumlee C, 7-0, 24

Similar to Labeyrie, minus the French connection, Plumlee is a strong rebounder. And much like Ndour, he didn’t garner enough NBA time (170 minutes) for a real analysis. Besides he’s only 21 years old, so he has room to grow.

Chasson Randle PG, 6-2, 24

The guy has a .586 ts% in the NBA. Don’t screw this up New York.

Xavier Rathan-Mayes G, 6-4, 23
I don’t understand this selection either. He’s not a great athlete, not a projected point guard, and not a good three point shooter. Heck he didn’t even hit free throws at an acceptable rate (53.0%) his senior year.

In summary, I’m unimpressed with the Knicks free agent selections. I can only see Jones with an outside shot at making the team, with a 1% chance of Kornet being a three point PF specialist.

On the other hand the Knicks top 6 of Ntikilina, Randle, Dotson, Ndour, Labeyrie, and Plumlee should make a pretty formidable summer league team. I wonder how they’ll handle Frank/Chasson. Will both start alongside each other? Who will see the lion’s share of the minutes? Who will play with the starters? In crunch time?

We’ll have to wait until the games to answer these questions.

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

174 thoughts to “Knicks 2017 Summer League Roster Breakdown”

  1. As a Knicks fan and non melo fan I have 3 favorite parts of the season: the trade deadline, draft and summer league.

    So please be healthy Frank. Has anyone heard anything else about his knee?

  2. Maybe if Gordon Hayward went to the Heat they would also want to play ‘Melo at the 4 alongside Whiteside? Any Knick fan with a grandmother knows that Florida and New York are not that far away.

  3. Does seem like a fairly uninteresting group. I was intrigued by Barry’s bloodlines but it turns out he doesn’t seem to have inherited the shooting gene.

  4. With Rambis’ good relationship with Hornacek, a former Phoenix teammate, he’s expected to remain on the Knicks coaching staff as the team’s defensive specialist.

    From Berman. Blergh.

  5. Newsday article today suggests that Phil wanted to release or buy out Melo (get rid of him at all costs), whereas Dolan did not. That could’ve been the last straw in Dolan forcing Phil out, but it also suggests that, at the end, Dolan WAS interfering in the running of the team, for better or worse.

    If the Knicks can trade and get something for Melo, then Dolan will be vindicated in this. But if he remains on the team into the season and continues to poison KP…

    The link: http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/why-phil-jackson-s-exit-doesn-t-necessarily-mean-carmelo-anthony-is-staying-with-knicks-1.13770691

  6. That actually makes sense. I believe Phil decided he had to bite the bullet and buyout Melo when Melo’s camp approached Knicks mgmt about it to rid him from the team ASAP, which is dumb, and told Dolan I can’t do my job with him here and he won’t accept a trade. Dolan says I can’t justify that so let’s part ways. As long as the FO’s underlying thinking of “let’s get Melo out of here” hasn’t changed, but they’re going to stick to no buyout while exploring trade opportunities then I have no issues and in fact makes Dolan’s decision seem quite reasonable, rather than impulsive.

  7. Can we just tell Melo to not play this season? Like we’re not buying you out, and we’ll pay you, but we don’t want you near the team?

  8. Re: Ujiri…

    I think historically draft pick compensation for a top coach or executive is actually one of the most valuable uses of a pick. People look at it as a high cost, but if you were on the clock in the late teens and had a choice between a low prospect or a top exec, who would you take?

    Look at it this way: in 1996 the Heat used their first round pick to select Pat Riley. In a draft with Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, et al., that might have been the best pick of the draft. (We selected Walter McCarty with the actual pick we got as comp. I think Riley had more VORP).

    And, of course, with their first round pick in the 1999 NFL draft, the Pats selected Bill Belichick. The Jets even got an excellent player with that pick (either Ellis or Abraham, I forget) and it was *still* a huge win for the pats.

    I think using a lottery protected pick on Ujiri is possibly the best use of a future pick. Consider everything Ujiri brings. Then consider how bad our next PBO is likely to be if Dolan makes the hire. The gap in basketball value between Ujiri and another Isiah/Phil is huge. Is there likely to ever be anyone available in the late teens who can produce more value than that? It’s quite possible that even Kawhi Leonard isn’t good enough to make up for the difference.

  9. After a 3 yr hiatus i feel like I can now cut my grilled cheese sandwiches diagonally and listen to dark side of the moon

  10. @7
    The argument has been that that will backfire b/c Melo is so well-liked by the other players.

    I guess there’s merit to that. I’m leaning toward Dolan’s view of Melo on this, but you know what, Phil may end up being right in all this. I don’t know, but to eat 2 full years of his contract is very tough to swallow.

    I do know that I want Melo gone. Please find a taker for him!

  11. From Berman

    “Phil thought Carmelo was trying to sabotage him,’’ an NBA source said.

    Anthony, who is the only Knick who has been a part of the four straight teams that have missed the playoffs, was considered disruptive in the locker room. On March 1, when the Knicks were last in Orlando finishing out the string against the Magic, Porzingis voiced his support of Jackson’s triangle offense.

    “We’re starting to learn it now the way we should and we should have been playing from the beginning of the season,” Porzingis said then. “So we’re a little behind. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it. I like the triangle. My whole first season, we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well.’’

    According to an NBA source, Anthony was furious to read Porzingis’ positive sentiments on an offense he disdains.

    “Melo really chewed him out, lit into him,’’ the source said.

  12. Using a 1st round pick on Masai would be idiotic beyond belief, but it would be justifiable if the alternative is hiring the kind of morons we’ve had at other times that gave them away for scrubs, overrated scorers and terrible veterans.

  13. Melo’s more competitive about making a power play to stay on a rebuilding team in New York than he is about winning games on the floor. Please get him out of here before he infects Ntilikina with his bullshit too.

  14. Masai is not the only really intriguing exec available out there. I still wonder, if you set aside the two times that Masai hoodwinked/bamboozled Dolan, how great was he really?

    Apparently he was about to deal Lowry to the Knicks, a deal Dolan would have “won.”

  15. The Gay trade was brilliant. Look at his transactions, it’s hard to find a dud outside DeRozan’s contract, which isn’t even that bad.

  16. USA TODAY has a piece about top NBA players running the league now, basically choosing what friends to play with. I think Dolan believes this makes a united Melo/KP front of “popularity” more important than cap space or management. Example of Paul orchestrating his own trade to Houston. The GMs were superfluous.

  17. Melo is probably a net negative on the court now. Let’s say last year he was so awful on defense because he was pouting and didn’t try, so he’ll be better this year despite being older. Unless you’re really optimistic, is his production going to be that hard to replace?

  18. The Gay trade was brilliant. Look at his transactions, it’s hard to find a dud outside DeRozan’s contract, which isn’t even that bad.

    I think it is that bad. And I’ll go further and say something that everyone will hate. There isn’t much of a difference between Gay and DDR as NBA players. If Lowry leaves Toronto I think we’ll find that out pretty quickly.

    Last three years the Raptors have played 5755 possessions with DeRozan on the floor and Lowry off. They are -3.8 PPP in that time, exactly what we were last year.

  19. You really think Janis would let KP back Melo up if Melo roasted KP?

    It’s a Berman article. C’mon son.

  20. Yeah, I really believe Janis would let KP back Melo up, because he’s a rookie agent in over his head.

  21. The DeRozan deal is defensible. Lowry is an excellent ball player so the PPP might have to do with the quality of his back up more than anything else.

    We should offer 2018 swap rights for Masai Ujiri.

  22. The NYDN is reporting Isiah Thomas is a dark horse candidate to become the POBO. I fully believe that is a lie and Isola is trying to fuck with us.

  23. 2018 swap rights is way too high – could be top 5 for mid 20s. I’d accept top 20 protected for a couple of years, moving to 2 second rounders. But we cannot give an unprotected pick when we are this far from winning. That’s the kind of deal that led to the Cavs getting Kyrie with the clippers’ pick…

  24. DeRozan is a fine player.

    A little bit overrated and overpaid but that’s the price you pay to have a high volume player on his prime (Not necessarily a good thing).

    Rudy Gay never posted a WS/48 higher than .123 while Demar is on his second consecutive season around .170

    We should offer 2018 swap rights for Masai Ujiri.

    I would do that too.

  25. You really think Janis would let KP back Melo up if Melo roasted KP?

    It’s a Berman article. C’mon son.

    100%

    They are the new kids on the block and Janis wants to become an agent.

    I think the fact that Melo holds sway over KP is one of the facts not in dispute. What we don’t know is how much of KP’s insubordinate behavior comes directly out of his relationship with Melo and how much is him being an immature kid on his own.

  26. You really think Janis would let KP back Melo up if Melo roasted KP?

    It’s a Berman article. C’mon son.

    Nah we been here before. Everything is Melos fault. KP had his brain replaced, like in the movie Get Out

    KP is in the sunken place

  27. The NYDN is reporting Isiah Thomas is a dark horse candidate to become the POBO. I fully believe that is a lie and Isola is trying to fuck with us.

    I wish I didn’t even accidentally see anything Isola has to say.

  28. Lowry is an excellent ball player so the PPP might have to do with the quality of his back up more than anything else.

    When Lowry and DDR play together they have been +4.3. But when Lowry had played without DDR (over 5400 possessions), they are +8.4. It doesn’t look a lot like a “bad backup guard” thing (who have been guys like Cory Joseph and Lou Williams, not garbage players). It’s hard to be a really good player when you’re a terrible defender, unless you’re Isaiah Thomas. These on-off numbers are always subject to a lot of noise, but DeRozan’s sure seem to rhyme. His career on/off in the playoffs is one of the worst of all time for a player with over 1000 playoff minutes.

  29. Ujiri can be the best GM we’ve had in decades if:

    1. He stands up Dolan and demands full autonomy.

    2. Doesn’t give away young assets for overpaid veterans.

    3. Drafts and acquires moderately well.

    4. Doesn’t interfere in his coaching staff’s decisions.

    5. And doesn’t conduct himself like an asshat in the media.

  30. Just the idea of Isiah. Jesus. Put nothing past Dolan.

    I dont care that much about summer league but I love that Canyon Barry shoots his free throws Granny style.

  31. I’m not a big Derozan fan, but I have a tough time believing they could be better with him off the court.

    I’d like to see how they did during an extended period of his absence (like maybe missing 10-15 consecutive games with an injury) to get some of the noise out of +/- caused by who else is on or off the court for both teams.

  32. I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this, but even though Phil is gone, I hope we keep Clarence Gaines.

  33. Did anyone notice that after Mark Cuban publicly celebrated the fact that the Knicks drafted Frank because he really wanted Smith Jr, he has since let Frank’s coach from France go from his coaching assignment for the summer league. lmao Cuban wanted Frank! #BurnedHim

  34. The reaches on that SL roster are gruesome, but I’m hopeful about those top 6. Ndour and Randle can both surely contribute. Labeyrie and Dotson could both pan out too and provide some minutes.

    Jeez it sounds like we’re bringing in Masai specifically to trade Melo again lol smdh.

    Also, it would be fun to bring Gallo back, just sayin.

  35. >Also, it would be fun to bring Gallo back, just sayin.<

    I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of him going to Houston.

  36. If Ujiri does those things, he is worth a top-15 protected draft pick. The draft is obviously the most important variable to the Knicks’ future, but if (1) Ujiri is just above-average on GM things, like drafting, signing, and trading, and (2) he is a competent, stabilizing force in the front office, and (3) actually gains us picks in the future though his usual methods, then it’s very, very obvious we come out way, way ahead of anywhere we’ve been since the last Jeff was our coach.

    For some oblivious-to-history reason, you are all way underestimating just how important a competent GM would be to our future, and how much of a HUGE game-changer he/she would be.

  37. I also wonder how good Hornacek, KP, and even Melo/Lee/etc will be when unchained to triangles and Phil’s lunacy. We may gain wins just by losing him! Is there a stat for that?? (Do we want to gain wins? Assuming Dolan was vetoing crazy Melo buyouts / KP trades, maybe being bad while drafting excellently was really good for us??)

  38. Apparently he was about to deal Lowry to the Knicks, a deal Dolan would have “won.”

    Yeah, except Dolan vetoed it specifically because he didn’t want to lose to Ujiri for a 3rd straight time.

    (Besides, if Dolan had let Mills deal that 2018 pick, Lowry probably would have blown out his kneecap and we’d be looking at Toronto picking #1 next summer.) #DolansRazor)

  39. @ 43 – Ive debated this but ultimately, if Melo stays for at least this year (or until the trade deadline), I think we want more wins. I know people here will say we need to tank and get a high lottery pick, but I think losing is very bad for young players. If we are playing better and winning more games than last year, that means Melo is probably playing better too, which means it will either be easier to trade him near the deadline to a contender (at which point we can tank the rest of the way) OR he will be more likely to not pick up his final year thinking he can get a nice 3 year offer somewhere else that will pay him more than his final year here. Same to a lesser extent with Lee and KQ. If we’re winning more games, it means everyone is playing better and its easier to trade them cause their value is higher.

    I go back to the Warriors. Draymond was a second round pick. Klay was a late first round pick. True Barnes and Steph were the 7th pick, but still not picks so high as the result of obvious tanking. The warriors never tanked and they are now the best team in the history of basketball. If we keep our draft picks, draft well with the picks we have, develop the players, have a good GM, a good coaching staff and culture…to me that stuff is WAY more important than picking a few spots higher. We all ready have a player who was picked 4th and a player who was picked 8th. I believe people place way too much emphasis on how high a draft pick is. Obviously is the season is lost it makes sense to go all in and tank at the end. But to purposefully do so I don’t think is a good strategy. You want the young players to be engaged and happy and feel like progress is being made.

  40. Masai Ujiri knows he needs New York. All the 50 win teams and Drake still can’t recruit top talent to Toronto, but put together a 50 win team in New York? The NBA superstars start to take notice. He also has the name and clout in NBA circles that he could demand autonomy and a Dolan-sized paycheck.

    If Dolan stays out of your way the only better job to have is the Lakers’ job. For all the talk of organizational dysfunction, the Knicks still play in the biggest market, have 3 potential superstars now on rookie contracts, and the front office has some smart guys currently employed with Warkentein and Gaines Jr.

  41. It seems to me that Rubio is an even better fit now that the triangle will be de-emphasized. He’ll be free to create for KP & others.

  42. @Mike Kurylo

    Marshall Plumlee is 24 (as you noted in his headline), not 21 (as mentioned in the little blurb about him).

  43. I think it is that bad. And I’ll go further and say something that everyone will hate. There isn’t much of a difference between Gay and DDR as NBA players.

    But the DeRozan contract is defensible outside of the stats you post because DeRozan is the all-time raptor Leader in games played, points, and all sorts of other things. Outside of numbers, these players are people, and these people have fans that pay money to see their favorite players play.

    Toronto, traditionally, isn’t a big free agent draw. The taxes are high there, and the smell of Detroit blows northward in the winter, and guns are really hard to come by.

    The two stars they’ve had (Carter and Bosh) both orchestrated their departures while still in their respective primes.

    So to treat DeRozan well and keep him from leaving makes a lot of sense for the Raptors, even if it’s not the shrewdest basketball move on paper (or, rather, electronic spreadsheet).

    Ujiri is a good basketball exec. I’m actually curious to see how Dolan manages to ruin him.

  44. @45

    I agree with you about wanting the young players to be engaged and to experience the taste of winning. However….it’s tremendously unfair to hold up Golden State as an example. Steph, Klay, Draymond – this is a once in a lifetime string of star players drafted by a single team AND without having any top 5 draft picks. Even legendary GMs in this league don’t have this kind of track record. Also, for what it’s worth Klay was not a late first round pick (he was selected #11, but obviously a steal regardless)

  45. I could not accept a lottery pick going to Toronto.
    Toronto probably would not accept a bad pick going to them.
    We could theoretically do something like a 2018 1st protected between 1-10 and 21-30, if not conveyed then same protections in 2019, then turns into second rounders.

    I agree that having a really good (not just barely competent) executive is probably worth a reasonably valuable pick. It’s not worth high lottery pick that could theoretically bring you a true franchise player, but is definitely worth more than a pick 21-30 which has a low chance of hitting in general. I think an 11-20 pick would be a reasonable price to pay.

  46. Re: Melo,

    All drama aside (and there has been a lot of drama) he’s just a bad player.

    He had very similar numbers to Rudy Gay last year – a player that is regularly ridiculed here – except Gay made around 14 mil last year, 12 mil less than what Melo will make next year.

    Gay is a better defender too! It’s really just ludicrous what Melo gets paid compared to what his production is. He should not be pitied, he should be mercilessly ridiculed as much as Phil was and also run out of town.

    His contract is arguably worse than the Noah contract. At least Noah has been elite at something!

    And that Melo was plugged into a bad system (the triangle) is bs. It’s just halfcourt passing/movement, not rocket science. He just sucks. I don’t think many of the posters here really comprehend just how bad he was last year. I might’ve looked into buying him out too.

    How would you feel about giving someone a big fat raise (one of the highest salaries in the field) and then they shit the bed and give you the worst season of their career (all while bitching about your “system”)?

  47. The warriors never tanked

    They absolutely tanked in Curry’s third season to make sure they didn’t lose their draft pick (which they used on Barnes).

    but I think losing is very bad for young players.

    The Warriors were 105-145 in Curry’s first three seasons. OKC had top four picks in the draft three years in a row. Losing is not inherently bad for young players (I’ll concede playing for terribly-run franchises might impact players negatively, but not just losing games).

  48. by the way – I don’t think that Houston would ever trade for Melo given how the MDA/Melo pairing worked in NY (Ramon Shelburne said as much yesterday on ESPN) but maybe it would be ok given CP3’s presence on the roster.

    The trade could be Ryan Anderson + the filler non guaranteed salaries for Melo – I think it would be doable if Melo agreed to give up some of his trade kicker (like CP3 just did). Would people be up for that? Ryan Anderson + filler + the 2nd round pick they are owed from one of Memphis, Charlotte, or Miami (least favorable)?

    Anderson is paid a lot of money but at least is a reasonably good player, sort of Kevin Love-lite. Might be moveable eventually.

  49. @ 51 – I get that for sure. But my point is just that you can’t rely on top lottery picks to make you a contender. I mean, its a better strategy overall to build long term with draft picks than it is to rely on free agency but tanking to make those picks earlier in the draft? I think it backfires. Again, if you get to the last few months of the season and you’re out of contention for the playoffs, then by all means play your youngest and most inexperience players and tank. But don’t be surprised when they play super hard bc those dudes are trying to make it in the NBA. People shitting on NDour for hitting a game winning shot when he’s trying to make it in the NBA and he’s on our team and we would in theory want him to be a good player for us? Just seems dumb. Frank could be better than Fox or worse than Monk. We don’t know. So much of it is what happens to the kid AFTER they are drafted. How they respond to the NBA. How much work do they put into their game once they’re millionaires, etc.

    To me its more about drafting well with the picks you have. Kawhi Leonard was also a late first round pick. Every draft there are dudes drafted later in the draft that end up being better than the players drafted ahead of them. You could randomly pick any draft pick in the first round and find a player better than that player who was drafted after him.

  50. I think a pick swap with Toronto wouldn’t be so bad, especially if they lose PJ Tucker and Kyle Lowry. I’d probably trade a top 10 protected pick in 2018 that becomes a pick swap in 2019 OR our pick outright in 2020. Three years into Masai Ujiri and I bet we’re a 55 win team. I hate trading 1st round picks so much, but for Masai Ujiri I do it.

  51. Did the warriors tank ALL season to get Barnes or did they tank near the end of make sure they didn’t lose that pick?

    I’m not talking about a single season, end of the season tank where you play the 3rd string guys more to lose games. I’m talking about a 2 or 3 year strategy of tanking to get the highest picks possible. I think its untenable to a team’s future.

  52. I’d be perfectly fine with Ryan Anderson, hes like 28 and has a solid elite skill… his contract is huge but it’s not like we need the cap space anyway, and he’s surely tradeable in the future as his skills will most likely age well.

    I don’t think Morey will pull the trigger on Melo tho with the whole D’Antoni situation and all… I think he’ll chase George hard and if it doesn’t work out he’ll hold onto his assets and reevaluate the team at the deadline.

  53. The vast majority (VAST majority) of the best players in NBA history were top five draft picks. If you want to build through the draft, you want to draft as high as you can.

  54. @SBondyNYDN 5m5 minutes ago

    Clarence Gaines is with the Knicks Summer League team.

    Frank still out with a sore knee, which stinks, but I’m glad to have Clarence still around.

  55. The Warriors were 105-145 in Curry’s first three seasons.

    Which makes it all the more obvious how impatient the NY media and fan base is.

    I tired to point out how terrible the Warriors were for a few seasons while they were rebuilding through the draft to a certain NY beat writer the other day and then pointed out that NY would be a lot further along if Phil had the 2 first round picks that prior incompetent management traded away. He insulted me back. At that point I realized I was wasting time talking to someone that was either an idiot or so consumed with hate for the organization and Phil he was suffering from an extreme form of cognitive bias.

  56. by the way – I don’t think that Houston would ever trade for Melo given how the MDA/Melo pairing worked in NY (Ramon Shelburne said as much yesterday on ESPN) but maybe it would be ok given CP3’s presence on the roster.

    I’m a big D’Antoni fan. It would distress me to see the poor guy tortured again.

  57. The Knicks need to be working on a 3 team deal with LAC and CLE. Trade Melo to CLE, DJ comes to NYK, and Kevin Love and Kyle O’Quinn go to LAC.

  58. @41 – I’m not oblivious to history and I do think a good GM will make a huge difference to our future. You make some good points but in a discussion that’s mostly about the margins of what level of pick might be reasonable to give up, to write off a view only subtly different to your own as ‘oblivious to history’ does you a disservice.

    My worry is that we really aren’t good, and the best long-term move for the team is probably to ship out Melo, who while not great does still win some games. We really stand a high chance of being top-5 bad next year. Personally, sending out that pick unprotected is simply too high a cost.

    Crucially, the counterfactual needn’t be ‘keep the pick and find a terrible gm’ – Masai isn’t the only good gm candidate and a younger more junior guy from a good system would cost less.

    None of which is to say I think your view is ridiculous – but nor do I think it’s unassailably obvious even with an analysis of history.

  59. In terms of trading with Houston I want no part of Anderson – he’d still be costing us $20m the year after Melo expires (2 years if you think he’ll opt out). We don’t need space this summer but we will need it eventually to start to take the next step as KP and Willy head into their second contracts.

    I would take Gordon and pieces – he should definitely be moveable for a pick.

  60. Think about this scenario for the off season:

    Knicks lose: Phil, Melo, Rose

    Knicks get: Ujiri, Rubio

    That would almost make the years of suffering under Phil worth it. Almost…

  61. @56

    I’m kind of with you.

    Getting higher picks improves the chances of drafting good players, but the added value comes from recognizing the players most likely to improve. It seems to me most teams rate athleticism far above everything else. Athleticism is probably most correlated to potential, but I think work ethic and basketball IQ are probably more related to likely progress than athleticism.

    The more I hear Frank talk, the more optimistic I become.

    I guess on some level they are all trained to say the right things, but in his case I believe him. He seems like a really smart and decent young man that is ultra dedicated to becoming the best player he can possibly become given his gifts so the “team” can win.

    It may take awhile, but I have a funny feeling we hit a tape measure home run with this pick. He may turn out to be the best player on the team in 4-5 years.

  62. Houston would want Melo why, exactly? To bolster their offense? They were the #2 offense last year WITHOUT Chris Paul. Their offense should be pretty good without Melo. So they want him for what, his defense? His quality presence in the locker room? Because he’s a good value on his contract?

  63. RE Gaines and Rambis. I think they are both staying put until the new exec is brought in. The new prez will make the call on them as well as Hornacek. I’m betting that Stevie stays as GM, though. He’s Dolan’s guy.

    I liked Beck’s article. I’ve long said Phil was earning a D grade. He wasn’t a miserable failure, but also certainly below average. The team is in better shape now than 3 years ago.

  64. Houston would want Melo why, exactly? To bolster their offense? They were the #2 offense last year WITHOUT Chris Paul. Their offense should be pretty good without Melo. So they want him for what, his defense? His quality presence in the locker room? Because he’s a good value on his contract?

    Listen you don’t ask those questions when someone calls to ask about Melo

  65. “Melo, who while not great does still win some games.”

    I don’t think that was true last year. He was average at best on offense and truly abysmal on D. We played better without him.

  66. @55
    The trade could be Ryan Anderson + the filler non guaranteed salaries for Melo – I think it would be doable if Melo agreed to give up some of his trade kicker (like CP3 just did). Would people be up for that?

    YES! DO IT!

  67. @IanBegley 5m5 minutes ago

    Frank Ntilikina said he bumped knees during his last game in France. Just knee soreness. Nothing major.

  68. The Rockets want Melo because he is CP3’s best friend. Anything else after that and you’re asking too many questions.

  69. The Rockets want Melo because he is CP3’s best friend. Anything else after that and you’re asking too many questions.

    I’d put D’Antoni on suicide watch.

  70. CP3 didn’t sign an extension yet and Melo as the 4th best player on your team is a damn good team.

    What’s really going on is MSG is using Houston as leverage against Cleveland. Why would we let Melo walk for nothing when he would accept a trade to Houston?

  71. Melo for Anderson and Ariza works in the trade machine, if Houston is in the mood to make their team worse. They could change the name of their offense to “Seven Seconds Or Less Unless Melo Touches The Ball In Which Case Let’s See Some Of That Jab Step Elbow Jumper Combination In Action.”

  72. Houston’s not trading Ariza. One of the reasons Paul went there was to reunite with the guy.

  73. Melo for Anderson and Ariza works in the trade machine, if Houston is in the mood to make their team worse. They could change the name of their offense to “Seven Seconds Or Less Unless Melo Touches The Ball In Which Case Let’s See Some Of That Jab Step Elbow Jumper Combination In Action.”

    +1

    I’d rather have a ten win season than watch Melo play anymore. He just drives me insane.

  74. I can see DWade in Houston as Harden’s sub, commanding the B Squad (kinda like what we tried with STAT a few years ago), but Melo to Houston is not happening unless a spectacular change of things.

  75. @45

    True tanking never works. Remember when the 1996 Spurs lost the Admiral, and played well enough to win 35 games and drafted Kelvin Cato the next year and went on to win 4 championships?

    Remember when LeBron left the Cavs and they played really well the year after (33 wins) and drafted Alec Burks and Burks was so good LeBron came back and they won a championship?

    #meneither

  76. They could change the name of their offense to “Seven Seconds Or Less Unless Melo Touches The Ball In Which Case Let’s See Some Of That Jab Step Elbow Jumper Combination In Action.”

    That’s pretty funny. And at the end of tight games, Melo could insist on taking the last shot, because as we know, the man is a closer.

  77. I’m not sure why anyone here wants Ryan Anderson. He’s a rich man’s version of Steve Novak. He’s a below average defender, below average rebounder, can’t create his own shot, looks better than he is off last year’s stats because he played for D’Antoni, and we don’t need a big man. For all that we’d have to pay him a little more than 20 million a year for 3 more years. Count me out. I’m desperate to get rid of Melo, but I think I’d rather start a GoFundMe page and try to buy Melo out myself. :-)

  78. We should trade Anthony to Houston for Ariza.

    Or to Cleveland for Frye and Shumpert.

    Or to Gaziantep Basketbol for Andy Rautins.

    Or to 3’s Company for Michael Sweetney.

    Anything that recoups our former draft picks in fine with me (it’s never too late to build through the draft!)

  79. Houston would want Melo why, exactly? To bolster their offense? They were the #2 offense last year WITHOUT Chris Paul. Their offense should be pretty good without Melo. So they want him for what, his defense? His quality presence in the locker room? Because he’s a good value on his contract?

    I don’t think they should want Melo either, but this isn’t a good argument. The Warriors got Kevin Durant even while they were basically the best offense in NBA history. They got him because in the playoffs, offense is different. you need as many playmakers and guys that can score in spite of good defense as you can get. The Spurs basically shut down the Rockets in enough of the games this past playoffs because they just tired Harden out, and there was no one else to pick up the slack. Now adding Melo in addition to CP3 does seem superfluous, although even Melo might be a better defensive player than Anderson.

    (re; Melo – I sort of believe that with less offensive responsibility and with CP3 to keep him in line, he would play better defense, would take better shots, and would be lower usage in general –> ie. basically Olympic Melo)

  80. #77 – we’ll dammit it should have been 100!

    Only kidding – I was in a real grump earlier and my response to your post was definitely a little strong. Apologies.

  81. I don’t think that was true last year. He was average at best on offense and truly abysmal on D. We played better without him

    LOLZ

  82. Anderson to Melo is bad.mid rather pay Melo than pay Anderson. Melo is a better player than Anderson. Maybe he can get a second wind like paul pierce.
    Also Anderson and porzingis together is like having a marbury and Steve francis or eddy curry and Zach randolph

  83. There is no way fathomable that LeBron James lets the Cavaliers stand pat and not go get Carmelo Anthony. None whatsoever. So you’re gonna bring back the same team that lost in 5 games while everybody else in the league is improving? CP3 to the Rockets makes Cleveland the 4th best team in basketball. If Gordon Hayward or Blake Griffin go to Boston they’re gaining on Cleveland with a bunch of young guys who will probably be getting better (like Marcus Smart, who apparently has been working on his 3 point jumper).

    LeBron won’t stand by idly and get smoked in the Finals again. Melo will be a Cavalier and they will trade us Kevin Love to do it. What we need to do is flip Love to LAC and grab DeAndre Jordan

  84. Nate Silver and his precious numbers thought Hillary Clinton would win! Phil should have drafted the ankle breaker we’ve needed since Tony Wroten got away!

    -DReud

  85. the counterfactual needn’t be ‘keep the pick and find a terrible gm’ – Masai isn’t the only good gm candidate and a younger more junior guy from a good system would cost less.

    This all day. I can see a scenario where we hire Hinkie who reports to Mills, and Gaines sticks around to head up scouting/player development. Hinkie won’t cost us a pick. And there are several other possible execs that have been mentioned, assistants out of Boston and SA that would come with a lower cost than Ujiri. He’s not the only good executive in the league.

    I’m not sure why anyone here wants Ryan Anderson.

    I’d rather pay Melo for two years than Anderson for three. If we can’t get assets that are useful for a rebuilding team, if all we can get are contracts longer than his there’s no point in trading him. Related, if you’re crowdsourcing a bid to buy out a player, buy out Noah. It’s a worse contract.

  86. I don’t think that Phil has left us in a better position for the next guy than when he took over. When he became GM, Melo’s contract was up, Bargs, Amare, Tyson Chandler and Shump were starting the last year of their contracts and JR had 1 season, then a player option for a 2nd that, in hindsight, he probably was going to waive. That’s pretty much a completely clear salary cap if he was patient and waited a season for everyone to play out their contracts. The team now has 2 or 3 albatross long term contracts: Melo, Noah and Lee. Maybe they could still trade Lee, but 3 more years at $12-13mil per is not good value for a guy about to turn 32.

    Yes, they have all their picks and some actual young talent, but there really isn’t much roster flexibility with this team for the next guy. It’s definitely not a sure thing that the team is in a better position now to improve than it was 3 years ago.

  87. (like Marcus Smart, who apparently has been working on his 3 point jumper).

    Marcus Smart just decided to work on his three point shot now ?

  88. The reason Masai Ujiri is so important is that he has the cache to get autonomy from James Dolan. A no-name executive would probably suffer from intervention from Dolan. We need a guy who will get the same autonomy Phil got, but with the ability to make good decisions more often than not. That is Masai Ujiri.

  89. The team now has 2 or 3 albatross long term contracts: Melo, Noah and Lee. Maybe they could still trade Lee, but 3 more years at $12-13mil per is not good value for a guy about to turn 32.

    And three years from now hopefully we’re resigning KP and looking to fill what holes we have left with FAs to make a serious push for contention. Noah, Lee, and any hypothetical 3 year contracts we pick up in any Melo deal could easily end up being serious millstones around the neck.

  90. @103 I don’t know what has been going on in Boston, but it seems like their players just take a long time to develop (if they develop at all). Despite their excellent collection of assets, the only starter on their roster that they drafted was Avery Bradley. The internet is telling me Marcus Smart can officially shoot threes now, which isn’t bad considering this is only his 4th year.

  91. The reason Masai Ujiri is so important is that he has the cache to get autonomy from James Dolan. A no-name executive would probably suffer from intervention from Dolan. We need a guy who will get the same autonomy Phil got, but with the ability to make good decisions more often than not. That is Masai Ujiri.

    That’s where I’m at, as well. Ujiri is awesome AND he has cachet. Sam Hinkie is great, but he has anti-cachet.

  92. The question isn’t whether Ujiri is worth the pick(s) needed to get him. It’s whether getting Ujiri at the cost of pick(s) is better than getting Griffin, for example, without giving up pick(s).

    Would you rather:
    A) Spend part of your meager savings to hire a highly-touted financial advisor?
    or
    B) Keep all your savings for investment by a less highly touted advisor?

    Think about not having Willy, for example. “The protected pick you give up won’t always turn into a Willy”, you say. True, but Ujiri gets fewer chances than someone else to draft a Willy. That’s starting things off with a big disadvantage. Giving up an unprotected pick and maybe a chance at a Kristaps, seems completely nuts to me. Tantamount to hoping Ujiri is a basketball Belichick – whose putrid Patriot-smelling name I hope never to type again – or a Warren Buffet in my overstretched metaphor. Not wise IMO.

  93. @109 – If we were a team that had a chance to be good, I might give up a pick but right now our mission statement should be to collect as many picks as possible. I don’t care about 2nd rounders (I really don’t care if the 76’ers have our next dozen 2nd rounders) but those #1’s from a bad team like ours will kill our future. Let’s model ourselves after the Baby Bombers. Look what that did for them!

    @98 – There is demand for Melo. It’s clear. The Cavs, Rockets, Wizards and Celtics all want in on him. They are circling the rotting corpse of this team and are going to try and pick him off our carcass. Screw that. A SMART GM sees this and holds back. And now is not the time. The time is when we get close to the trading deadline and these teams realize that they’re a Melo away from a shot at the title. That’s when they get desperate. We need to force Melo to become desperate. 15-minutes off the bench per night should do it. Let him BEG to leave.

  94. If NYK can acquire another first-rounder somehow– say for one of our marginally useful veterans like Lee or KOQ– then sure, send that pick as compensation for Masai. But under no circumstances can this team trade away its 2018 pick.

  95. I don’t care about 2nd rounders

    Willy was acquired for two second rounders. Second rounders are important.

  96. @103 I don’t know what has been going on in Boston, but it seems like their players just take a long time to develop (if they develop at all). Despite their excellent collection of assets, the only starter on their roster that they drafted was Avery Bradley. The internet is telling me Marcus Smart can officially shoot threes now, which isn’t bad considering this is only his 4th year.

    Marcus Smart reminds me a little of Shump. He has this overrated reputation of being a ferocious defender and gets up in opponents’ grills, but also commits really dumb fouls in the process.

    Although Shump might actually be a better offensive player, here’s Smart’s TS% the last 3 seasons:
    .491
    .463
    .486

    fugli

  97. What percent of 2nd rounders drafted stick in this league as full-time starters? If I had to guess, one or two a year? You might get a decent role-player out of the 2nd round, but it’s rare to find a game-changing stud there.

  98. The ONLY way out of the Melocancer is a buy out. And for that to happen we have to hope Lebron somehow believes Carmelo can give CLE a fighting chance. And Lebron is very smart. Even if CLE gets to that point they will push Melo to request a buy out. No one will trade for him as long as he has the NTC.

  99. say for one of our marginally useful veterans like Lee

    You mean the guy whose contract is so good that he could be traded for a first rounder at any time but no one will trade a first rounder for him (the other teams might not have gotten the memo about easy it would be to get them to trade for him)?

  100. I don’t think we should trade any number ones after what this franchise has been through. I mean we just finished restocking our cupboard.

  101. What percent of 2nd rounders drafted stick in this league as full-time starters? If I had to guess, one or two a year? You might get a decent role-player out of the 2nd round, but it’s rare to find a game-changing stud there.

    Whether you actually use them to draft someone good, they’re valuable to use in trades (as opposed to using them to dump Travis Outlaw’s contract, one of the underrated terrible Phil moves).

  102. I don’t think we should trade any number ones after what this franchise has been through. I mean we just finished restocking our cupboard.

    That’s what the protection is for, though. By the time the Knicks have a pick you’d be okay with losing, it won’t matter.

    But yes, I’d never trade an unprotected first rounder for any executive while the Knicks were bad.

  103. You mean the guy whose contract is so good that he could be traded for a first rounder at any time but no one will trade a first rounder for him (the other teams might not have gotten the memo about easy it would be to get them to trade for him)?

    You can always trade Lee for Rubio.

  104. You can always trade Lee for Rubio

    If you’re giving up Lee’s glorious contract, you should get Rubio AND a pick.

  105. Kevin Udwary
    June 29, 2017 at 4:18 pm
    I don’t think that Phil has left us in a better position for the next guy than when he took over. When he became GM, Melo’s contract was up, Bargs, Amare, Tyson Chandler and Shump were starting the last year of their contracts and JR had 1 season, then a player option for a 2nd that, in hindsight, he probably was going to waive. That’s pretty much a completely clear salary cap if he was patient and waited a season for everyone to play out their contracts. The team now has 2 or 3 albatross long term contracts: Melo, Noah and Lee. Maybe they could still trade Lee, but 3 more years at $12-13mil per is not good value for a guy about to turn 32.
    Yes, they have all their picks and some actual young talent, but there really isn’t much roster flexibility with this team for the next guy. It’s definitely not a sure thing that the team is in a better position now to improve than it was 3 years ago.

    Well, that’s kind of a compelling set of facts. Perhaps I am being too kind to Phil.

  106. Jackson drafted KP and traded for Willy. He’ll always have those two AWESOME moves to look back on (I like Frank, too, so let’s hope it’ll be three awesome moves he can look back on).

    Other highlights were getting two seconds for Prigs, getting a first for THJ and signing Lopez and KOQ.

    It surely wasn’t all bad with Phil. The bad just outweighed the good by a lot.

  107. Calling Lee an albatross is just idiotic. The next guy who comes in will have all the picks and actual young talent on the roster with the cap clearing in a couple of years at which point you may actually have a young nucleus to sell to free agents as an attractive situation.

    If you were to ask front office personnel whether they’d rather take over the current Knicks situation or the one Phil inherited I’d guess the vast majority would prefer the one with KP, Willy, Frank, all future 1sts and 2 tricky long term bad contracts (Melo and Noah) instead of Shumpert and THJ, out 2 of the next 3 first rounders and capped out for the next year. You’re hating way too hard if you can’t see that.

  108. The idea of giving up a pick for Masai is so obviously idiotic it shouldn’t even be discussed other than this is a Knicks forum. The reason it can be discussed here is that Dolan is so incompetent, the possible alternatives to Masia may be so much worse than giving up a pick, knowing that we actually have a competent guy makes it worth it. But there’s almost no way Masai is so much better than all the other possible candidates that we should be throwing picks away to have him. In a competent Knicks world, we should interview a group of candidates (all of which would likely be very similar in ability) and choose the best fit. No picks should be involved.

  109. 1. Isiah Thomas just tweeted he has no intention of returning to the Knicks.

    2. Calipari is interested. Yech.

  110. It does burn me to think of all the money we will be paying Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas, and Joakim Noah in 3 years.

  111. How many guys can get total autonomy from James Dolan while being good-great at their jobs?

  112. How many guys can get total autonomy from James Dolan while being good-great at their jobs?

    Yeah, I’d much rather sign some smart up and coming GM who Dolan would give autonomy, especially when it is between an up and comer and no draft pick and Ujiri and giving up a protected pick.

    I don’t think that there is such a person.

  113. By the way, the rumors were that Ujiri was told that he could leave if he really wanted to (at the same time, they’re not going to make it easy for the Knicks).

    I don’t buy that myself. I bet they insist on a pick. He’s too good to give up without getting a pick back.

  114. Hinkie is not a good fit in NY because he’s too smart. Could you imagine him dealing with the NY media? Seriously, that’s not even hyberbole. Hinkie makes value oriented decisions that often have a timetable of 5 or more years. That doesn’t mean all his decisions will be correct. It means you often can’t tell for 5-10 years if he will be right.

    Phil Jackson just spent 3 years here. He left the team with back to back all rookie players, a kid from France that looks better by the day, a couple of other young and stashed players that could become nice role players (some that went undrafted), all our 1st round picks going forward, cap space to fill out the bench this year, only one bad contract, and he did all that without the benefit of a first round pick in 2 out of his 3 years. That’s not bad. Yet all people dwell is the mistakes and things they don’t even understand were actually correct.

    They worry about a no trade clause that will be irrelevant by the time this team is ready to compete anyway, a few irrelevant short term contracts given to free agents (players that were never part of the long term plan, only taken on because no stars wanted to be part of the rebuild, and no easy task to get players to agree to), trading away disruptive players that no one wanted asap and not receiving enough back (though he often got back quicker cap space), an offensive system that not a single critic even understands, and other nonsensical moves that perhaps weren’t maximized, but are still almost irrelevant to our long term position.

    As someone stated earlier, the Warriors were horrible for 3 years after they drafted Curry, but thinking long term worked out fine. I’d like to see what would happen to Hinkie in NY if he started drafting players with medical issues, sitting them out a year or two at a time, trading them away before they could be fully evaluated, and finishing last year after year after year. I have too much compassion to want him here.

  115. Back to back first team all-rookie team?!? Wow, we haven’t seen that since…Fields and Shump.

    KP and Willy are great, but I’d avoid that particular piece of rhetoric to support their greatness. THJ was first team all-rookie. So was Channing Frye. It doesn’t mean a whole lot.

  116. I have a lot more faith in KP and Willy than Field and Shump. Fields’ value cratered once he couldn’t shoot anymore and Shump was good lesson learnt on potential vs. production.

    KP and Willy actually produced at impressive rates for young bigs. I think this base we have currently is much better than previous situations where the Knicks had “all rookie” talent.

  117. Which is why it doesn’t make much sense to cite all-rookie team selections as if it means something.

  118. None of us knows how these kids will develop, but it’s better to be considered among the best rookies of your class than to be considered a bust. I would argue that both KP and WH are already good NBA players. We are hoping they become very good players.

    It’s not that I don’t understand that Phil was kind of a grumpy old arrogant white guy (I can relate a little because clearly from my posts I have days like that that I hope you all forgive me for). He made some mistakes and didn’t deal with people well. But we are in very good shape as long as we don’t screw it up.

  119. If you were to ask front office personnel whether they’d rather take over the current Knicks situation or the one Phil inherited I’d guess the vast majority would prefer the one with KP, Willy, Frank, all future 1sts and 2 tricky long term bad contracts (Melo and Noah) instead of Shumpert and THJ, out 2 of the next 3 first rounders and capped out for the next year. You’re hating way too hard if you can’t see that.

    I’m not saying our next President would be taking over a complete disaster. There are definitely positives to taking the Knicks job, as you mentioned. My point was that when Phil took the job, he had a great opportunity to purge the team of all its bad contracts and malcontents and make the roster in his vision from complete scratch. He would have had complete roster flexibility had he not signed Melo and just waited a season. He wasn’t a inheriting a mess, it was a blank slate. That’s a good situation for a GM/Pres to walk into, and arguably as good as our current situation.

  120. I suspect that Adam Silver will twist arms to get Ujiri to run the Knicks (and free of compensation, probably). After all, it’s in the league’s best interests to have a stable and viable Knicks team.

  121. Oh man. Firing Phil just to turn around and hire Calipari would be the Knicksiest move imaginable.

  122. The Knicks aren’t interested in Calipari.

    The Knicks aren’t interested in Isiah Thomas.

    The Knicks have Tim Leweike running the search for a POBO.

    There’s no reason to freak out yet.

  123. When they say Calipari reached out to the Knicks how did he do that? Because I’d like to reach out.

  124. Oh man. Firing Phil just to turn around and hire Calipari would be the Knicksiest move imaginable

    I don’t that I would be firmly against that. He’s definitely a good coach(if he wants to be prez & coach) who has probably learned his lesson from his time with the Nets. I guess the question would be who would we trust more between he & Hornacek? Now..on the flipside of that, assuming he wants coach and prez duties , he can’t be any worse than Phil. Having Gaines and Warkentien with him should help. I dunno. I’m not advocating it, I’m just not sure it’s a bad idea. I kinda want to see Hornacek coach his way though. I’m on the fence with this idea

  125. Please stop hiring people without NBA executive experience to be NBA executives. Thank you.

  126. Please stop hiring people without NBA executive experience to be NBA executives. Thank you.

    Unless it’s DRed. It looks like “jdolan@msg.com” is a real address. Email your resume, and be prepared to be accused of being an alcoholic.

  127. Hinkie is not a good fit in NY because he’s too smart. Could you imagine him dealing with the NY media? Seriously, that’s not even hyberbole. Hinkie makes value oriented decisions that often have a timetable of 5 or more years. That doesn’t mean all his decisions will be correct. It means you often can’t tell for 5-10 years if he will be right.

    Phil Jackson just spent 3 years here. He left the team with back to back all rookie players, a kid from France that looks better by the day, a couple of other young and stashed players that could become nice role players (some that went undrafted), all our 1st round picks going forward, cap space to fill out the bench this year, only one bad contract, and he did all that without the benefit of a first round pick in 2 out of his 3 years. That’s not bad. Yet all people dwell is the mistakes and things they don’t even understand were actually correct.

    Phil Jackson acquired three assets in three years via picks given to him by the NBA. That’s an awfully slow rate that has left us behind in the arms race. Not to mention the fact that if his asinine plan of winning 44 games every year had actually worked we’d literally only have Willy. He deserves credit for finding Willy the same way Isiah deserves credit for finding David Lee–it doesn’t negate everything else.

  128. I didn’t think the Cal thing was serious… on the other hand, assembling one of these stupid “super teams” seems to be the name of the game now so I guess what ever is conducive to that?

  129. They could hire just about anyone of the posters here as long as that person would continue to read the board and I’d be happy. If it’s DRed even better.

  130. “That’s a good situation for a GM/Pres to walk into, and arguably as good as our current situation.”

    Sure, you could argue it, but you’d be wrong. Being a year away from a position to acquire assets is not the same as ACTUALLY HAVING ASSETS. That team had no youth to build around. This team does.

  131. Cap space can itself be an asset. You take bad contracts from other teams for draft picks. You can make offers to young, good RFAs. I don’t want to argue that the team was definitely in a better position when Phil started, I’m just saying he didn’t inherit a shit sandwich and was walking into a pretty good situation. He had the potential to wipe the slate clean and start again with guys who fit his philosophy. He failed miserably.

  132. My resume isn’t going to get me a job-I need to send him my good posts

    It’s all about the cover letter. Lay out your plan. Use corporate words like ‘synergy’. You’ll be golden. Post it here and we’ll proofread for you.

  133. Gosh, I’ve finally finished a thread. This place has been buzzing!

    Interesting that not trading for Melo was one of CP3’s breaking points, per ESPN. That leaves us with some possibilities.
    A.)It’s not true.
    B.) CP3 knows less than Cock Jowles.
    C.) Stats are extremely arbitrary and other players believe Melo has real value.

    Honestly, I’m not espousing anything here or trying to be snarky. It just seems odd that after seeing this guy get pilloried on this board every day, you read something like that.

    What do you folks think?

  134. Some people here would tell you that Phil was playing 13-dimensional chess, running a multi-tiered hybrid plan in which the team would both “win now” and rebuild. The results of the “win now” portion were 17, 33 and 31-win seasons and immovable long-term contracts for Melo, Noah and probably Lee. The result of the “rebuild” part was that the rebuild is going slow as shit. In the meantime he managed to keep the Knicks the laughingstock of the NBA with his general asshattery and throwing his players under the bus.

    He sucked. Full stop.

  135. Interesting that not trading for Melo was one of CP3’s breaking points, per ESPN. That leaves us with some possibilities.
    A.)It’s not true.
    B.) CP3 knows less than Cock Jowles.
    C.) Stats are extremely arbitrary and other players believe Melo has real value.

    Honestly, I’m not espousing anything here or trying to be snarky. It just seems odd that after seeing this guy get pilloried on this board every day, you read something like that.

    Have you ever noticed that ex-players rarely make good GMs?

  136. I’m guess I’ll go B, as C doesn’t even make sense as a connective phrase (Players definitely believe Melo has real value, but how does that match “stats are extremely arbitrary”?).

  137. Phil Jackson was giving Carmelo Anthony away and taking back terrible contracts. However you feel about Carmelo Anthony, he is a better player than Crawford, Rivers, and Pierce. Doc Rivers had the chance to rob Phil Jackson and he said no. You respect a man’s loyalty to his son, but he has to accept your loyalty to your own interests as well.

  138. Phil Jackson was giving Carmelo Anthony away and taking back terrible contracts. However you feel about Carmelo Anthony, he is a better player than Crawford, Rivers, and Pierce. Doc Rivers had the chance to rob Phil Jackson and he said no. You respect a man’s loyalty to his son, but he has to accept your loyalty to your own interests as well.

    Looks like Big Baby Davis was right (go watch his Austin Rivers rant on Instagram if you haven’t seen it. Top notch stuff).

  139. Looks like Griffin is set to be first cab of the rank for interviews with the Knicks. Hard to grade his work at Cleveland. Your job is a hell of a lot easier when you have LeBron in your team, but you would have to say he did a pretty decent job in Cleveland surrounding LeBron with good players and not much cap space. That said, probably not hard to convince players to play for less when a) they are playing with LeBron and b) there’s good chance to make Finals. I am pretty sure the Bennett pick pre-dated him by a year, so not sure you can put that as a con against him.

  140. And remember to mention that you love blues/rock fusion.

    Good point. Work it into the analogies in your plan. “We’ll target players who’ll synergize like Led Zeppelin covering Muddy Waters – more swagger, verve, and popularity. Fan and win accumulation will describe the same curve.”

  141. Anyone know how to watch the Orlando Summer League games?

    The games are on MSG channel. If you don’t get that channel they more might be on NBATV. (Some are, I just don’t know which ones )

  142. Hey Brian,
    I guess I didn’t craft the sentence correctly, lol. I was trying to say that, maybe Paul knows what we can’t. Not that I believe that. Just asking. But maybe Paul really could have used Melo on the wing, saw it as a huge improvement over Luc Richard, and didn’t care what the stats said about Melo’s role in NY.

    I mean, my personal opinion is that Melo would kill people on a good team where he’s the third option and that he’s struggled unnecessarily as option 1 with bad point guards in NY.

    The bubble gum card says we are what we are and I’ve been wrong enough to know but I’m leaning answer C on this. I think any team would want Melo. It’s the cap number and NTC that complicate things.

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