Is Scott Perry A Good GM? Let’s Find Out Together!

Kevin Durant is going to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, along with Kyrie Irving and Durant’s tagalong pal, Deandre Jordan.

So now that Plan A (also known as “The plan where the GM really doesn’t have to do anything except let the star player choose his team”) has flopped, we get to finally see what kind of GM Scott Perry is.

If he signs a bunch of one-year deals, he’s probably just another dumb Knick decision-maker (just not as dumb as Phil Jackson, who was the worst).

If he doesn’t, then the Knicks might finally have a good GM.

Let us all find out together as free agency officially begins!

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514 thoughts to “Is Scott Perry A Good GM? Let’s Find Out Together!”

  1. Phil was President, wasn’t he? Mills was his GM.

    Mills is now President, Perry is the GM.

    Who makes the calls? Seems like the President? If the Knicks now make really stupid moves, who is really to blame?

  2. Post from the last thread that’s even more relevant to this one:

    How the Nets got their relevant players (the ones KD actually agreed to join):

    Jarrett Allen–draft pick from Andrew Nicholson’s salary dump

    Rodions Kurucs—draft pick from DeMarre Carroll’s salary dump

    Caris LeVert–draft pick from trading away a useless veteran in Thaddeus Young

    Spencer Dinwiddie—flyer on a young player who was good in college

    Gosh, it’s almost like the kind of moves a team in our position should be making are glaringly obvious!

  3. Mavs and Porzingis have reached agreement on a new 5-year, $158 million deal, per
    @TheSteinLine

  4. The answer is NO.

    Exhibit I:
    – Quinn Cook RPM Rank: 104th out of 111
    – If that’s not depressing enough, he posted a FTr of .074, the Mariana Trench of FTr, the lowest FTr of any guard in the NBA. HERE

    Not a positive sign. I’d rather keep any picks we’re sending them. DSJ and RJ at the 1. Maybe Tyus.

  5. Perry has not done much to make the team better other than what was handed to him.

    Well yeah, the team that was handed to him needed to be burnt down with the Earth salted beneath it. It had Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah and Courtney Lee. Was he supposed to build on that foundation? Getting worse in the short term to have a chance at getting good in the long term was 100% the right call.

    The Nets won out because they made very good draft picks with the picks they got from taking on salary dumps while we were signing Arron Afflalo. That’s it. That’s the lesson. We didn’t hoard enough assets. Hopefully that changes.

  6. The Nets did not rebuild simply by taking on salary dumps into cap space.

    They won low-level trades
    They drafted well in lousy draft positions
    They found guys available on minimum or near-minimum deals and developed them.
    They found a really good coach for a developing team.
    They avoided negative press.

  7. From what I understand on this blog, the President merely has big sweeping general ideas about what players to get, things like “get guys who really fit into the team concept” and “get guys who move the ball” and “get guys who pass out of the pinch post” but it’s not really their responsibility to know who those players are. That is the job of the scapegoat, erm, GM.

  8. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Pluses:

    1. Didn’t do anything that caused significant long term damage
    2. Robinson (great selection, but the hype may be ahead of the reality so far)

    Minuses.

    1. Drafted Knox over Bridges (the jury is still out, but is leaning guilty)
    2. Traded for Mudiay
    3. Put Hezonja into cap space
    4. Let KOQ walk for nothing
    5. Wasted time with guys like Beasley and Jack
    6. Lost Porzingis (there’s a lot of blame to go around for that, but one was that no progress was being made rebuilding and he lost faith)

    I would say his biggest problem has been that he didn’t do enough positive things to move us forward. Those kinds of things are hard to quantify or list, but you expect a “GOOD” GM to pull some rabbits out of his hat here or there and make a winning trade that moves the team forward.

    I’d give him a “C”.

  9. They found a really good coach for a developing team.

    Right? Fizdale does not seem to be that guy.

  10. Lesson that Dolan should learn from this: The Nets climbed their way out of a huge franchise hole by trading away vets for assets, taking on bad money, and clearly identifying their place on the win curve.

    Lesson that Dolan will learn from this: How DARE the Nets upstage me in my own city! I built basketball in New York, dammit! I am a very important businessman and musician! I will NOT be embarrassed by a bunch of alcoholics like the Brooklyn Nets. Perry you incompetent, why are you just standing there?? Sign somebody now! NOW NOW NOW!!!!

  11. From the way things are looking right now Perry is about to go from a “C” to an “F.”

    Just about every rumor I have heard has tied the Knicks to some bullshit useless player.

  12. rubio to the suns is a surprise

    He fits there a lot better than Indy. Rubio didn’t make any sense in Indiana. They need shooting.

  13. Durant and Kyrie wanted to play together. Before the injury, Durant, who had more sway would have dragged Kyrie here, after the injury Kyrie had more sway and dragged Durant there. I don’t think this is because of the Nets brilliant team building. Their supporting cast isn’t better than ours. I wouldn’t trade Robinson and Barrett for the entire Nets team. Allen is good, Robinson is better and I would take Barrett on a rookie deal over 17 million for Dinweddie and Harris and the rest of the team. Kurocs and Lavert look okay but I would still take Barrett’s potential over theirs.

  14. Griffin is a super sharp GM.

    and honestly the fit of Brogdon next to a healthy Oladipo is pretty damn sexy

  15. Lost Porzingis (there’s a lot of blame to go around for that, but one was that no progress was being made rebuilding and he lost faith)

    How will we ever survive with two first rounders and DSJ instead of Mr. November on a 5/$158M deal?

  16. Pretty high cost for Brogdon, 4/86 plus a 1RP and two 2RPs. Pacers will be one of the better teams in the East though.

  17. Guys I’m sorry. I really tried to get some good karma for this team grinding out recap after recap in a terrible season. Looks like all I could do was help the basketball gods gift us Quinn Cook and some other shitty player.

    At least we didn’t draft Cam Reddish!

    But yeah, the Dolan stench might just be unwashable until he sells the team. And I think we’ll come away from the next few days having set our clock back another couple of years.

    (I don’t care about missing out on Kyrie and KD. But the Quinn Cook news make it so that it’s evident our FO never had a plan other than “let’s hope someone good signs here”)

  18. Their supporting cast isn’t better than ours. I wouldn’t trade Robinson and Barrett for the entire Nets team. Allen is good, Robinson is better and I would take Barrett on a rookie deal over 17 million for Dinweddie and Harris and the rest of the team. Kurocs and Lavert look okay but I would still take Barrett’s potential over theirs.

    Their supporting cast was a playoff team while the Knicks supporting cast is Robinson, a bunch of crap and Barrett. Their supporting cast is considerably better, even if Robinson is the best player out of everyone involved.

  19. Their supporting cast isn’t better than ours.

    You are probably the only one on earth who feels that way.

  20. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    The way I understand it, the role and power of the president and GM can vary from team to team, but generally the president is responsible for “all” basketball operations of the team and the GM is more involved with players, agents, contracts, and transactions. The GM works with the president to help build a theoretically shared vision for the team.

  21. Jazz adding Bogdanovic to Conley is a pretty good summer for them.

    I can’t believe the Pacers let him go. He was so perfect for them. But yeah, Utah looks like a title contender right now. They seemed to have learned, “Maybe it is better if we don’t just rely on Donovan Mitchell to do all of the scoring.”

  22. Echoing the great post @15, I am downright terrified about Dolan’s reaction. It’s almost reassuring that they’ll be soooo much better than us that Dolan can’t possibly think we can upstage them…right?

  23. Dolan may get upset about it, but I really don’t see Durant and Irving going to Brooklyn as an indictment of current management. They both obviously want live in NY. That gave them a choice of two teams. They picked the better team. The weird thing to me was why so many thought they should prefer the Knicks. Phil fiddled while the Nets rebuilt, that’s why they signed there. The most frustrating thing for me is that we had Atkinson on our staff and let him go (for Hornacek, I think).

  24. i dont get why bucks didnt just keep brogdon after maxing middleton.

    they just being cheap?

  25. That’s a lot for Brogdon but I HATE when really, really good teams hemorrhage key pieces for no reason other than cost. It’s not like they’re opening any flexibility, to my knowledge. Just lighting an asset on fire because the Edens family doesn’t actually care that much.

  26. I’d be on the horn with the T-Wolves trying to get a 2020 1RP for taking on the last year of Jeff Teague’s contract

  27. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    David Aldridge
    @davidaldridgedc
    The Knicks, obviously punched in the gut, have to move on and build a squad. Expect them to go the depth route now, trying to sign several among vets like Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, George Hill, Reggie Bullock, others.

    I reserve the right to change my rating from “C” to “D”.

  28. I can’t find any confirmation beyond notorious troll Peter Vescey about Knicks interest in Cook.

  29. I can’t find any confirmation beyond notorious troll Peter Vescey about Knicks interest in Cook.

    Yeah, it seemed like a joke to me when he posted it. Let’s hope!

  30. spending that much money on basically role players is just reqlly irresponsible….

    you could maybe justify breaking the bank for one but not both and i can appreciate why they drew the line…

    theres really no way brogdon justifies that deal… and i actually like him…

  31. You can cherry pick stats for and against Cook, but he is a 25 year old guard who shot 40% from three last year and can defend. I don’t know what’s so bad about that.

  32. Signing guys on cheapish deals that other teams might value is not all that bad.

    Signing guys after the initial feeding frenzy so that prices come down isn’t bad either. For example, if someone else wants to overpay Randle, let them have him. If not, sign him on a fair market (in a typical year, not a year when everyone has cap space) deal.

    So far, we haven’t done anything obviously dumb.

  33. i like brogdon too but 85/4 PLUS a first and two seconds for a guy with legit injury risk and a relatively moderate ceiling isn’t great

  34. As I’m blogging, the movie Cast Away is on in the background. Somehow it feels appropriate for the mood.

  35. It’s pretty incredible that we’re no more appealing to free agents than teams like Sacramento and Charlotte.

    Players say they love coming to MSG, only problem is they’d rather be on the road team.

  36. The Nets were a playoff team with Russell. Without Russell, they would have won 35 games and missed the playoffs. They gave up their best player to add Kyrie and Durant. They are not joining a playoff team.

  37. As I’m blogging, the movie Cast Away is on in the background. Somehow it feels appropriate for the mood.

    I think “He’s Just Not That Into You” would have been more appropriate

  38. Yeah, the Pacers trade for Brogdon is a lot more iffy than the Bucks just matching it for plenty of reasons.

    If the rumors out there are true, well, meet the new front office, same as the last 10.

  39. This team has $72M or whatever in cap space. Are they really gonna use that ish on a big ol’ pile of Reggie Bullocks and George Hills? Because that’s so incompetent I almost kind of like it just for the lulz. My next several years of sick burns are just writing themselves.

  40. Yeah, ptmilo, so many of these deals are huge risks. Staying quiet for now is smart, no?

    It is a little too smart. #dolansrazor

  41. The Nets have 4 players Durant is joining that have produced in the NBA. The Knicks have 1. What are we even talking about? Of course they have a better core, I had no idea that was controversial.

  42. i haven’t seen any great deals (aminu was pretty cheap actually, that deal will be easy to trade, which might be important bc orlando now has 17 forwards), so i’m not crying about our whiffs. i’m worried that we going to pay real money to some 3noD 28 yr old like bullock

  43. TRUST THE PROCESS! Seriously tho, would you rather watch RJ lobs to Mitch all next season leading to a top 5 pick or Kyrie dying on screens with KD in a walking boot on the sidelines leading to 44 wins and a first round exit?

  44. Dan Wetzel
    @DanWetzel
    ·
    1h
    It takes years of work to be so toxic that you can’t give NBA stars $200 million to play for the Knicks. Quite a remarkable accomplishment for James Dolan.

    Indeed

  45. Yeah, the Nets overachieved last year, lost their All-Star, and are replacing him with a guy who pretty much singlehandedly torpedoed an overachieving team’s chemistry last year.

    As to assets, the Nets don’t have anyone I’d trade straight up for Barrett. I’d give up Knox for Lavert, but that’s it.

    What the Knicks need more than any of the things under discussion is for either Barrett or Knox (*) to break through to superstardom. They need a bit of luck, but then so did a bunch of teams who drafted guys and watched them become superstars.

    (*) Or one of the other guys on the roster, but I’m discounting that possibility. DSJ has a tiny, tiny chance.

  46. Wow, a ton of action happening in the 1st hour of free agency. Here’s the stuff I’ve seen that we didn’t already know about:

    JJ Reddick to New Orleans for 2yrs/$26.5M

    Derrick Rose to Detroit for 2yrs/$15M

    Ricky Rubio to Phoenix for 3yrs/$25M

    Thaddeus Young to Chicago for 3yrs/$41M

    Bojan Bogdanovich to Utah for 4yrs/$73M

    Malcolm Brogdon to Indiana for 4yrs/$85M

    Jonas Valancunas to Memphis for 3yrs/$45M

    Terrence Ross to Orlando for 4yrs/$54M

    Dewayne Dedmon to Scramento for 3yrs/$41M

    Jeremy Lamb to Indiana for 3yrs/$31.5M

    A lot of bad contracts being given out but luckily none by us (yet)! Some teams with cap space 2 or 3 years from now are going to make a killing in draft picks taking these bad contracts off teams hands.

  47. Dedmon got $14M AAV!? Brogdon got $21M AAV!? TERRENCE ROSS? He has 3.5 career VORP!!!!!!!!!!

    RENT THE CAP SPACE

    THERE WILL BE NO BARGAINS ON THIS DAY

  48. Jimmy Dolan cannot be happy with today’s developments so far

    He is a great blues man, he is probably writing a great song about it

  49. The Nets were a playoff team with Russell. Without Russell, they would have won 35 games and missed the playoffs. They gave up their best player to add Kyrie and Durant. They are not joining a playoff team.

    Even if you believe that, then that means they’re joining a 35-win team versus a 17-win team plus Barrett. The first team is obviously better than the second team. Like, so obviously that it is a weird thing to even bring up.

  50. The Suns and Bulls getting better is good for us if we tank again.

    That’s something!

  51. Today’s events can permanently put to bed the idea that non-elite free agency is anything but a god awful market, right? I mean which of these contracts should we have signed, “hybrid” advocates?

  52. Please God let us facilitate deals for draft picks.

    Can’t this board just run the fucking team already Dolan?

  53. D’Angelo Russell on a minimax looks like better value than every single one of those contracts.

  54. D’Angelo Russell on a minimax looks like better value than every single one of those contracts.

    Isn’t that amazing? I don’t even like DLo that much, but wow, he’s so much better than most of these guys.

  55. All good so far, but if they sign Bullock I’m gonna be real sick.

    Hey, maybe Mudiay, Bullock, and Boogie. Shudder.

  56. Keep your wallet in your pants tonight, Knicks. Summer League is coming. Wilkes, Hinton, Lamar Peters and Wooten are worth a look.

  57. Actually, if Charlotte gets Russell instead Walker, and for much less money, that’s might be a good thing for them.

  58. i think it’s important to not anchor on what actually is a good or decent contract…. there’s a lot of cap room out there and within there’s a big disconnect between actual and perceived value….

    like jonas at 15mm per is not that bad of a deal… that’s pretty good for a decent big these days… but that’s probably not good for a team like the knicks…. for the grizz? not sure about that either but in a vacuum that’s ‘deece’….

    thaddeus young for 10mm is also really good in a vacuum… for whatever reason he keeps signing for really decent value and he’s a pretty good piece…. but for the bulls… that’s kind of a questionable deal for them….

  59. i still don’t want to max d lo but i agree with that. i wouldn’t trade d lo for ross, dedmon and lamb.

  60. The Knicks are literally running out of stupid things to do. Someone sign Randle and Mudiay quick!

  61. Not only did the Nets have better players than the Knicks, they also had a better owner, GM, and coach. Other than that, though, the Knicks had a better foundation.

  62. @70

    Sorry, yeah. Don’t know where the hell I got $25M from.

    @66

    These contracts are crazy! Just happy that so far there haven’t been any strong rumors tying us to any FA. Hope to god we rent out this cap space for future assets.

  63. Indiana and Utah made some pretty interesting moves, and the Pelicans could potentially become a nice team eventually too if Zion is good right away. A lot of weird moves too, like was Dedmon that much in demand? Terrence Ross???

  64. If we’re gonna rent the cap space we better do that soon before every meaningful free agent is off the board. You can’t really rent it out if there is nobody left to buy.

  65. Ok so Tobias and Middleton are re-signing thank god. All we have to dodge now is Cousins pretty much, and Randle.

  66. If the Knicks announce the signing of Bullock, I hope it’s Seth Bullock rather than Reggie Bullock!

  67. We can help the Heat clear space so they don’t have to do a sign and trade with Russell, and we can help the Wolves clear space (NOT Wiggins, Teague and Dieng) for Russell.

    Anything else I’m missing? That could net a nice haul.

  68. oh my god knicks are so pathetically full of shit. saying they refused to offer durant the max.

  69. I really hope the Knicks are trying to facilitate Russell to Minny. Yeah, the Heat, too.

    Teague to me is good. Expiring.

  70. If we’re gonna rent the cap space we better do that soon before every meaningful free agent is off the board. You can’t really rent it out if there is nobody left to buy.

    You can still save teams from the luxury tax once they’ve realized the mess their payroll is after their spending binge.

  71. Nah, they’re too busy talking about how they spurned Durant than actually doing something useful.

  72. oh my god knicks are so pathetically full of shit. saying they refused to offer durant the max.

    See, that’s Fiz magic in FO manner of speaking.

  73. I thought Russell was going to Charlotte as part of a three way deal with Brooklyn and Boston. Am I wrong?

  74. remember when dolan refused to accept that grammy nomination because he was concerned it would hurt his art

  75. It’s the stuff like “we weren’t prepared to offer KD the max” (*) BS that depresses. Everyone knows he rejected you, not the other way around. Just take your medicine, shut up, don’t do stupid shit in response, and move on. No one believes you and this isn’t going to make you less of a media laughingstock; it’s going to make you more of one.

    (I’m a longtime admirer and reader by the way, newbie poster.)

    (*) In retrospect, “Jim wants to look at KD’s medical records before offering the max” was a big tell in this.

  76. Bleacher Report
    @BleacherReport
    ·
    3m
    Knicks were “not fully prepared” to offer KD a full max contract with concerns over his recovery, per
    @ramonashelburne

    I actually think this is smart.

    And I don’t think the Knicks would make it up. KD people would dispute if untrue

  77. The MSG spin has begun!! The Warriors were prepared to offer KD the full 5yr max but the Knicks weren’t gonna offer him the 4yr max cause they’re smarter than the Warriors….

  78. Knicks are wining and dining Randle in LA instead of working on facilitating a trade….

  79. i don’t think folks really appreciate how much cap space there is out there… i mean whatever deal we could get to ‘rent out’ space there’s just a lot of competition for that… two-thirds of the league is currently below the cap… and you really only have 2 teams (wolves and thunder) to 3 (maybe miami now)… who would actively look to dump something…. and their picks aren’t really that valuable….

    taking on wiggins for even a couple of late firsts is DEFINITELY not worth it….. adams is a bit more enticing but again… late firsts are not really worth it for him and his contract…. and i’m just spitballing with miami because i don’t really see anyone else.. esp since butler’s out of play for houston….

    is renting out space really all that great given THAT market?

  80. They’re probably getting phone calls from teams looking to dump a shit contract and ignoring them. >.<

  81. We have so much cap space, we could actually hedge our bets and sign a “marquee” dude like Randle, AND facilitate a Butler or Russell signing AND bring in the dreck veterans the FO seems to be infatuated with.

  82. I’m fine with Randle. but after seeing these deals; he’s going to be 4 years, 85M, which seems like a lot

  83. They do need a front line, so they have to sign someone. But it’s ok with me that they seem to be spending conservatively.

  84. With Randle at least they get better at offense and it would be hard to get worse on defense (but I concede m, it’s conceivable they could find a way)

  85. As someone who defended the idea of signing some mid-level FAs in principle, I don’t think I’ve seen a deal yet the Knicks should have even thought about. But if they wait out the frenzy and get the 24-year-old Randle for the same price as the 31-year-old Thaddeus Young, even if it’s four years instead of three, that would be a pretty good get.

    Of course, now watch some idiot give Randle twice that.

    Mike

  86. The only thing I would say about trading for Wiggins and some 1RP is that they’d be from Minnesota; there’s no way they’d be late firsts.

  87. Are we trying to save face or is this real??
    The New York Knicks and owner James Dolan were unwilling to extend a maximum contract offer to free-agent superstar Kevin Durant due to concerns over the recovery from his ruptured Achilles tendon, league sources told ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne.

    Durant had been heavily linked to the Knicks in the months leading up to his free agency, but he confirmed Sunday night that he plans to sign with the Brooklyn Nets.

  88. So far so good for me.

    Except for Kyrie, there wasn’t a contract signed so far that I would had been 100% comfortable for the Knicks.

  89. Let everyone else use up their cap space, but be sure to save $30m+ for early next year. Maybe then facilitate a trade or two.

    And sign no one to longer than a 2 year deal. Keep flexibility for 2021.

  90. Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    ·
    18s
    Free agent Julius Randle has agreed to a three-year, $63M deal with the New York Knicks, CAA agents Aaron Mintz and Steve Heumann tell ESPN.

  91. Not great value, not terrible either, honestly. Another C or C- for Perry.

    (What about defense though?)

  92. Im sorry but I dont think that’s a bad deal at all for Randle. Look at his numbers the last 2 years, hes actually a really good basketball player.

  93. I’m not sure this is horrible news. it’s only 3 years. it means boogie’s not coming here. Randle’s biggest problem is he doesn’t protect the rim, but he’ll have Mitch behind him. I’m not loving 21M per, but we could have done stupider things, and based on those other deals, he’s prob worth 17.

  94. Was Steve Kerr the last person the Knicks refused because they didn’t want to offer “that much money”?

  95. It’s amazing how bad we suffer from Knicks PTSD. I can’t bring myself to think it’s an ugly deal even if I should.

  96. That’s not an awful deal but I wouldn’t have signed it with the positional surplus out there.

    It’s hard to even care though, I don’t see many better opportunities in the next few years for players and we can still take on pretty much whatever bad contract we want.

  97. Why the fuck are signing Randle to 21 million a year for fuck sake. At least he is a productive player and is relatively young but damn, just why.

  98. It can be a decent signing if he starts caring about defense. But he just got PAID, so why should he?

  99. i think that’s an ok deal… i thought 20mm was about as high i could go…. but a 3 vs 4 yr deal makes it roughly equal…. i was hoping we could get a 4th yr team option but that probably wasn’t gonna fly in this market….

    i know a lot of folks won’t like it… but there’s a decent chance randle is part of the next good knick team…. and probably better than the alternatives out there….

  100. Good: Randle is 24, so we have him for his prime

    Bad; He’s basically an average player at a position where you can get average production for a few million a year and we’re giving him 21 million dollars.

    Good: He’s probably the best passer we have on the roster

    Bad: He’s a F/C and he’s not all that great of a passer

  101. If we were to sign Randle, 3/63 is probably not what most would have gone for, but it doesn’t seem like too much of an over pay (considering what has been thrown around already). It feels like somewhere between an overpay and (this board’s at least) perceived value. Probably about a C grade all things considered.

  102. The final scene in Castaway when she runs after him in the rain and tells him he is the love of her life and he says he
    Loves her more than she’ll ever know…
    That
    Like the Knicks and KD after his Achilles ripped.
    They just knew it wouldn’t work out…

  103. We badly need a marksman. DSJ, Barrett, Randle and Robinson could be defended by a middle school type zone.

  104. The only two Knicks to be >.600 TS%+ and >25 USG% in franchise history:

    Bernard King
    Eddy Curry

    My god, I hope Randle can split the difference.

  105. Enes Kanter got a four year deal averaging about $19M a year corrected for inflation in 2015. The salary cap has grown faster than inflation, so $21M a year seems comparable to that. Randle is a similar age now that Kanter was then. But Randle has better shooting stats than Kanter did then, is a much better passer, and shows signs of shooting threes well. It’s hard to imagine Randle defends worse. So this seems a reasonable deal to me. And we needed someone at his position.

  106. The marginal wins aspect sucks, but the Suns and Bulls are trying to get better so I guess that just leaves Cleveland in terms of serious tank war competition. With the new odds it’s a little hard to get excited about.

    A 4th year team option would’ve been very, very nice.

  107. @143

    We badly need a marksman. DSJ, Barrett, Randle and Robinson could be defended by a middle school type zone.

    Reggie Bullock?
    :-)

  108. Bad; He’s basically an average player at a position where you can get average production for a few million a year and we’re giving him 21 million dollars.

    Julius Randle is not an average player

  109. i think it’s a bad deal. randle does some good things on offense. and there’s some chance his shooting is for real. but he is a shit defender. if the guy is going to play defense as lazily as he did the last two years as a free agent, what’s he going to do once he’s gotten paid. more likely to be worth less than $21m than more. not the worst deal signed today.

  110. kanter was definitely an overpay because he can’t play anything else but center….

    randle has a better chance to fulfill and surpass the value of his contract because he’s better and he can conceivably fit a traditional pf role….

    i thought kanter money was a good bar and this was roughly equal to that which is why i think it’s a fair and decent deal… i honestly would have pushed for 4 and 76 or 80….

  111. and really… team tank should really love this deal… we get to play young dudes and still lose a ton of games….

  112. Oh, team option makes that a lot more palatable. I don’t like it, but that’s not the absolute worst.

  113. So, basically, we got Julius Randle, 24, at 21 m for 3 years (plus Smith, and 2 picks) for KP, 25, 32M for 5 years

  114. Ok, the third year team option is really good. That saves the deal for me, as the next offseason that will actually have free agent talent is two years from now anyway. I don’t hate it, I don’t love it, it’s meh.

  115. Randle scores efficiently on high volume, and he rebounds. If you’re actually trying to win more games in 2019-2020, it’s a signing that makes sense. He can put the ball in the basket and this was the worst offense in the NBA last year.

    If you’re down with the whole “improve to 30 wins and then maybe people take you more seriously” strategy, you should be happy with this.

  116. I actually like Randle more than the avg KBer (not saying much). That team option puts it at C+/B- for me. His age fits our win curve. Dont love it, but def don’t hate it.

  117. Randle is a good offensive big man who gives a lot of his value back by sucking on defense. Maybe he’s somewhat above average and he’ll win us 2 games more than a bigman we could get for like 6 million a year. Not really worth the contract-it’s more or less the same stupid shit we always do.

    Edit: the team option makes the deal better and is the kind of shit we normally haven’t done. So that’s progress!

  118. If its just Randle they’re signing, the Knicks are still going to be terrible. I doubt he adds more than 4 or 5 wins to this team, and all the terrible teams like the Suns and Bulls are also making moves. I doubt it will screw us too much on lottery position next season, so I’d give the move a C, maybe even a B- because of the option.

  119. I’m in the minority, but I’m giving a B+ to the deal. He’s a really good offensive player, it’s a fair price and a short time commitment.

  120. And for those that think KD is worth the max, he misses his age 31 season, he will be easing back in during his age 32 season (see Boogie Cousins), so you will be getting an age 33 and age 34 KD who based on the best data we have will be at 80% of his otherwise declining capacity and missing more than a few games due to load management and inevitable future (hopefully minor) injuries.

    Cant wait until the Nets are paying a 34 yr old KD $48M to play at 80% for half a season.

  121. i didn’t know the knicks knew that team options were permitted. kind of neutral on the deal now given there was no way we were going to rent all the space. not a value deal, but could be worse.

  122. The upside: He might be movable for an asset at some point, it’s possible he’s on a good Knicks team 3 years from now (would require great drafting with both our picks and Dallas’, a worthy max signing, good use of the rest of the space, and a lot of development)

    The downside: marginal wins and that’s about it unless I’m missing something. It’s really hard to see the contract costing us any opportunities since we have so much space left and the FA pool is bleak for a while. I guess it’s possible though.

    C+/B- is about right. There’s no way Phil or the other regimes would’ve gotten the player option, so there’s that.

  123. i’m def in the minority but this is roughly the exact deal i would have given randle… and that honestly has never happened….

    it’s an A- from me….

  124. Begley says we’re looking at Taj Gibson and Wayne Ellington now. Defense from one (albeit eating up minutes when Knox could play PF), shooting from the other.

  125. I can be OK with a Bullock deal cause he is young and can really shoot, but these rumors for older guys like Taj Gibson and Wayne Ellington make no sense to me. Rather have Dotson getting minutes than Wayne Ellington.

  126. I honestly think Elfrid Payton wouldn’t be a bad buy low guy right now, if he could be had for around $5-7mil a year. He was steadily improving every year in Orlando until he was traded. Plus he fits in great with our other guards that can’t shoot.

  127. Julius Randle is at least young and talented. That’s not a phrase often associated with the Knicks. And they got a team option! Wow! I’ll give it a B.

  128. I’m not a Randle fan but this is more than OK in that it fits in with the “new and improved” management mindset. In the past, we signed Joakim Noah to a 4-year deal with no option and the remnants of that deal will haunt us for 3 more years.

    BTW no one has brought up how stretching Noah seems foolish in retrospect, since we did it to have 2 max salary slots that are now unneeded.

  129. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    I’ve always been a Randle fan because of the potential fit with KP, but imo this is a risky fit with Robinson. And since Randle is not known for his defense, it kind of feels like we just signed an efficient inside scorer and rebounder that doesn’t defend well for more than we used to pay Kanter (and we couldn’t trade him). You can argue that Randle is subtly better on defense, improving faster, and can make plays a bit better, but this is not a deal I’m excited about even though I like him in general. If that fits does not work well because of spacing, he’s going to wind up being an expensive undersized backup C. Let’s hope he’s with Frank working on his shooting.

  130. B for me.
    Mitch
    Randle
    Knoxx
    RJ
    Smith

    We can be the nets team like llast year. We still have the money. No more than 2 yeears is good.
    We need to sign a winner here. Kawhi pls

  131. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    BTW no one has brought up how stretching Noah seems foolish in retrospect, since we did it to have 2 max salary slots that are now unneeded.

    It was also a core of the KP trade. IMO, we would have been better off trying to maximize assets from KP. That was my feeling at the time because I didn’t think we get any of the max players. For awhile I thought I was wrong, but my original fear was correct.

  132. That team option is nice. Do we know if it is front loaded at all? I am happy to give this a B, given Randle (warts and all) fits within the parameters of the type of moves the FO said they would make if they whiffed on the big FA’s (i.e. building on young core, not maxing faux max guys). Seems they are at least committed to the idea of a young core.

  133. dsj.. mrob… rj and now randle… i know it’s not saying much but that’s the most.. from a quantity and quality perspective…. 25 and under talent we have ever assembled…. this isn’t like the eddy curry.. jamal crawford years or even the gallo.. chandler.. nate rob years…

    these guys could be really good….

  134. I really hoped the Knicks would move Knox to the four, but now he’ll surely start and get lots of time at the three. He can’t defend there. Maybe he can fill out in the next two years and take over at the four after two years of Randle.

  135. If you’re down with the whole “improve to 30 wins and then maybe people take you more seriously” strategy, you should be happy with this.

    The strategy is “do more to improve the team than sit around with your thumb up your butt and trust in dumb luck.”

    The team option makes it more palatable but this Randle deal is something you sign AFTER next season with another high lottery pick in hand.

    Mike

  136. Without a team option, I hate the Randle deal but with one I’d give it a B+/A-. I think there is almost no risk and if he is good we can keep him and make moves in two years with the rest of our cap if he doesn’t work out we just move on. I don’t see much downside.

    Knox should be his backup. Now just get a quality backup center. Bell or Noel. Go.

  137. As to a grade, I give it an A+ on the “Dolan’s Razor” scale of incompetent management decisions and a B in terms of rational expectations. The team option makes it way better than Kanter’s untradeable player option deal. We should be able to move this deal in year 2 if necessary. And maybe, just maybe, Randle gets better. I still think his 3-pt shooting was a mirage, but will keep the jury out for now.

  138. Interesting take from Chris Mannix from SI on Twitter:

    Knicks are taking a public beating, but I’ve talked to several rival execs tonight who think the Knicks did the right thing. Kyrie wanted to be a Net. No one has any idea how Durant, at 32, will bounce back. Weak free agency class in 2020. Bad optics. Maybe not a bad decision.

    Fair perspective I feel.

  139. Kornet is still on the market. But I’m actually expecting that other teams might want him once the dust settles on all the big deals.

  140. Do you ever watch a JD and the Straight Shot video, with some reasonable musicians playing, and with a woman singing a duet who seems like a solid singer, and you just kind of close your eyes and ask yourself, would I hate this so much if it weren’t Jimmy Dolan singing?

    That’s how I feel about today more or less…

    Actually, that’s going a little too far. I would only say the Straight Shot wasn’t terrible, at best. This approach might be better than that.

    But it still sucks. I don’t know what I expected to happen. Nothing good. This is nothing good but nothing bad either.

  141. it doesn’t really look like dlo is on the radar.. and maybe that’s for the best…. but shopping the rest of the market… these are the guys i would target:

    rondae hollis jefferson – if rj is playing the 2 … then rhj is a decent gamble.. esp with keeping with finding undervalued guys in the 25 and under category.. i can’t imagine he’d be all that expensive and should be in the <6mm range… we are probably targeting bullock but the upside with rhj is better imo…. i can understand on not loading up on guys who can't shoot tho…

    payton – as long as we don't care about guys who don't shoot.. might as well fully commit… i think there's a decent theme here about guys who can definitely ball but is a jumpshot away from making a leap…. the model here is rubio… and rubio is def better but i also think payton has a better shot at developing that shot….

    i think gibson… ellington and bullock are ok targets… they are more in the roster filler category and fill out a semblance of an nba team…. i don't think they'll be more than 6-7mm and with the deal we gave randle.. i highly doubt they'll be more than 3 years….

    if we're out of the kawhi sweepstakes… and not signing dlo… it's going to be REALLY hard for us to spend all our cap room since most of the top talent is spoken for already…. so i think most folks on this board should be happy about that….

  142. I strongly believe Randle can and will improve his shooting and won’t be a lane clogger for Mitch. That said, I think his upside is limited and he’ll never be an above average defender.

  143. Just the fact that we’re prefacing most of the commentary with “Randle is relatively young and is a talented” is refreshing to be honest. Comparing to the stupid Phil blunders or the THJ signing, it’s a much, much better deal. It fits reasonably the timeline, it works on the court as he should play well alongside Mitch and it’s a 2 year deal with a team option that will surely be tradeable unless something super unlikely happens. In a market where Terry Rozier is getting paid 68 million for 3 years, I would much rather have Randle in this deal.

  144. I would rather sign Russell and just go with that young core for a while than just sign a bunch of short-term George Hill, Reggie Bullock, Bobby Portis kind of crap. Randle’s deal means you can jettison that contract in 2021 if you want. I think it’s a decent risk that you could also move the last two years of the Russell minimax if you wanted to.

    Doesn’t seem like they’re interested in Russell though for whatever reason.

  145. and i do love delon wright if there’s still a surprise signing but i imagine the grizz match most deals…

  146. with the option, this is a very good deal. B+ from me. If we need, Randle becomes a very tradeable piece in year 2

  147. Sounds like DLo might be looking to team up with KAT. If so I am on the phone to Minny seeing what picks we can get for helping them with a bit of cap space. Would look at anything except for Wiggins. Minny’s 1st rounders might not be terrible.

  148. Worst case- Randle averages 24/10, plays no defense and makes an all-star team anyway and the Knicks rip up the team option and sign him to a max deal (which at that point will be a 7-9 year max).

    Best case, he improves his three point shooting, reduces his turnovers and fouls, and plays with a little more defensive awareness- all possible from a 24 year old- in which case he’s an elite offensive player who’s not a total zero on defense and not a bad #2 guy if someone like Giannis wants to come here or at least a very nice trade chip to include in a deal to get a #1 option.

    Likely outcome- he improves a little but still stinks enough on defense to be a positive but probably not worth the deal. I guess I’d give it a B/B-. Not terribly risky with a slight chance of a very good outcome.

  149. I’d love to see us make a run at Delon Wright, Payton would be okay cheap, Tyus Jones could also be an okay cheap option.

  150. What about 3 years 18 million for Jordan Bell. I think the Warriors might not match that.

    Provided the third year is a team option, I’d be ok with that.

  151. B+ Randle signing. That team option is pure gold. I was always OK w/Randle on a 1-year deal but 2 years w/option is even better. I didn’t think it was possible, never considered it. The NYK were desperate for a shot creator. Maybe if he plays all his minutes at PF his defense will be less of an issue and perhaps he even improves a bit. He’ll never be a quality center because of his defense. I do hope we’re able to re-sign Vonleh cheap. That would take care of PF position. And Taj on a 1-year deal to be reserve center would be OK.

    Regarding the 1, Teague makes so much sense. DSJ would still get minutes. TWolves appear desperate to sign Russell. I hope Perry is exploring – protected 1-10 first would be OK.

    Keep some cap open. Sometimes there are desperate teams at the trade deadline.

    Trade Kevin Knox! We hoped to sign a special K but this double K we should be abandoning. Other than Knox, this roster receives my stamp of approval:
    1: Teague, DSJ, Kadeem
    2: Barrett, Trier, Frank
    3: Knox (pending trade ;)), Dotson, Frank
    4: Randle, Vonleh, Braz
    5: Mitch, Taj, Kornet

  152. A couple of thoughts…. I’m not so sure that the Nyets young core sans d’AR (leVert. RH-J, Allen, Dinwiddie, Kurucs) is much better than MR, Barrett , Trier, Knox. DSJr, Frank, Dotson. Plus they had no pick this year and next year if they make the playoffs.

    Also, from the law of unintended consequences file, had the Knicks picked Donovan Mitchell over Frank I’m pretty sure the Knicks would have been the preferred destination had everything else been similar.

  153. Randle is a B for me, the team option is nice, he’s young and he’s expanding his range…

    We signed Gibson, 2 years 20 M, the well known “veteran presence”… :-)

  154. I don’t see Minn giving a 1st round pick to dump teague unless it’s really heavily protected. but…..what about Frank for Teague and a top10 protected?

  155. That makes me sad. I would bet lots of money both Noel and Bell will be cheaper than that. So was Bryant in Washington. Gibson hasn’t been good for a couple years. Vonleh is better. So we signed two PFs and no backup centers. Neither Gibson or Randle can protect the rim.

  156. I really want to know the DJ Nets deal. I may be crazy but I dont think they have enough to win it as is. Especially if Kawhi goes to LAL. Their window might only be the 2022 season. And if they overpaid a declining DJ and capped themselves badly for the next 3-4 years they might be a bit fucked even if Kyrie gets along with everyone and KD recovers to his best case declining self.

  157. D- grade on Taj Gibson. He’s OK but he’s ancient and 2 year deal? 10m/yr? Terrible. Too much to pay for veteran presence. Vonleh at 5m would have been waaaay better.

  158. Just a remarkably pointless signing. $10M that we now can’t spend on…literally anything else? Tajron Gibflalo.

  159. gibson is like if you wanted to do a lance thomas kind of deal but done better…

    that’s still not a good deal.. but it’s one of those build a winning/tough culture kind of thing…. and gibson’s the right kind of guy to do it with… he’s very hardnosed and tough….

    this is a C- from me….

  160. No team option on Randle would be shitty. These guys may have no clue after all.

  161. Knicks president Steve Mills:
    “While we understand that some Knicks fans could be disappointed with tonight’s news, we continue to be upbeat & confident in our plans to rebuild the Knicks to compete for championships in the future, through both the draft & targeted free agents.”

    lol, how does this guy still have a job?

  162. knicks sign up to pay Taj Gibson $10m at age 35 in year two, and Steve Mills immediately issues a statement conceding the election and congratulating his opponents

  163. That Taj Gibson deal is really fucking stupid. That is about as big a waste of $20M as is humanly possible. That’s maybe the dumbest FA contract I have seen so far this offseason.

    These guys don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. That is pretty clear. Carry on as usual. Perry will be fired before long, let’s hope some other GM candidate who is friends with The Eagles doesn’t come around sniffing for a job again.

  164. I’m a D on Gibson. He’s an above average defender that will help teach the youth a little about defense. Still a dumb dumb move but definitely not the end of the world. We *will* be spending a bunch of this cap money folks. And don’t get your hopes up about taking on salary for picks. None of us ever thought this management team would actually do that. I’m pretty sure we’re just trying to duck major fuckup moves at this point.

  165. Now I don’t know what to root for. I hope we lose a lot, so Perry and Mills get shitcanned and we get high lottery picks?

  166. Yeah we have this year’s Arron Afflalo. So that means their plan is to just hang on until 2021 when they’ll have cap space again. What a pointless signing, but let’s see what else they do with the remaining money.

  167. The Knicks actually thought releasing that statement was a good idea and all it has done is add to the mockery.

  168. I don’t understand the Gibson signing at all. He’s like Vonleh in results; maybe a little better at shooting, but ten years older. Why not just keep Vonleh?

  169. Woj sez the Knicks never contemplated offering Durant the max after the injury….. maybe at least they are thinking a little????

  170. The Mills statement is an embarrassment.
    It essentially says, no one will come here until we get better.

  171. What the actual fuck are we doing giving $20M to a 34-year old Taj Gibson. I mean I figured they’d spend the money in pointless ways but it’s like they’re just trolling me.

  172. It’s so pointless that no one here even dreamed it up when we were talking about potential pointless signings because we thought they wouldn’t possibly do something that pointless

  173. Maybe they think Taj will be able to mentor Randle and get him to play defense?

  174. i wouldn’t believe anything coming out the knicks mouth… and anything that woj or shelbourne or whoever is saying about what the knicks are saying is just that….

    gibson probably represents the highest dollar deal that the knicks are shelling out… we will probably have something like 25 or 30mm even if we do sign payton and/or bullock…

    with that context in mind… i wouldn’t get all worked up over the gibson deal…. if we give payton 15mm over 4 years then gibson’s deal looks a lot worse but if it’s just roster filler then it will have a low likelihood of turning out bad for us and could actually be an asset to fill out a trade in the future….

    so i would feel bad… but not too bad… it’s a meh deal but there’s actually not much left out there…..

  175. Well, at least we’re in the final running for Kawhi. NY vs. LA. Somehow I think the weather is going to play a part. Obviously, I want him to be a Knick, but if he isn’t coming to us I actually think Toronto deserves to have him.

  176. I don’t understand the Gibson signing at all. He’s like Vonleh in results; maybe a little better at shooting, but ten years older. Why not just keep Vonleh?

    C’mon fellas…. be intellectually honest…. look at last years numbers and tell me who is the better player. I’m no great fan of Gibson but he’s an upgrade over Vonleh by a lot…. and you need a big who can play 20 minutes behind MR.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Taj+Gibson&player_id1_select=Taj+Gibson&player_id1=gibsota01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=Noah+Vonleh&player_id2_select=Noah+Vonleh&y2=2019&player_id2=vonleno01&idx=players

  177. There’s only 5 teams with space to sign Kawhi and the Mavs aren’t in the meeting running I believe. So we are final four.

  178. I looked at those exact numbers. Gibson shoots a higher percentage, but Vonleh has more assists and a better DBPM and DWS. I expect Vonleh to be better next year and Gibson worse. To me, that made them similar.

  179. gibson probably represents the highest dollar deal that the knicks are shelling out

    We literally already handed out a 3yr/$63M contract to Randle earlier tonight.

  180. look at last years numbers and tell me who is the better player. I’m no great fan of Gibson but he’s an upgrade over Vonleh by a lot

    RPM PF Ranking:
    Kornet: 18th (Plus 1.46)
    Vonleh: 25th (Plus .71)
    Taj: 34th (Minus .19)

    Click HERE again Neptune.

  181. I ain’t mad about not signing KD because Perry/Mills were unwilling to give him the max. That was a prudent long-term decision. But signing Julius Randle and Reggie Bullock to make up for that loss is bullshit. We should be using that cap space to take on bad contracts.

  182. It essentially says, no one will come here until we get better.

    I mean…..that’s not really incorrect.

    Gibson is a meh deal. I mean bringing him on in that “veteran presence” “front court mentor” role is fine, just not sure it needed to be done at that price. Not the worst deal, but certainly not a great deal.

  183. Why are there people here still talking about signing Kawhi as if that’s a realistic option???

  184. Hahahaha y’all are talking about Kawhi Leonard. Oh yeeeah, right, he’s walking through the door just about any minute now.

  185. The Gibson deal is worse than the Afflalo deal because the player option made it more likely that it would only be A 1-year deal. We just basically lit $20 million of cap space on fire.

    The one thing I will say is that Taj is a pro’s pro and will do all the dirty work

  186. Even if signing Gibson was a good idea, which it isn’t why today. It’s not like teams are beating down his door. Wait a week, see who is left in the cold, who might be available in salary dumps.

    Not only is he overpaid and way too old to be a part of our future and not that good anymore there is no reason to tie up 20 million and reduce our options now.

    Where does he fit? Neither him or Randle can play center.

  187. Kawhi is totally going to leave the Raptors to come play with Randle, Taj, and Reggie Bullock….

  188. Perry sucks. He just showed his cards. He’s bullshit. I’ll be awaiting his firing which will hopefully come soon. That was an incompetent signing. You can find an old ass “teach the kids how to play defense” kind of veteran for way less than $10M per year.

    Indefensible signing.

  189. Hey, Scott Perry has forgotten more about basketball than you or I will ever know

    That got a chuckle.

  190. Well, at least there’s still politics to liven this blog up. Anyone seen the Democratic Primary debates this past week? LOL.

  191. I agree the Gibson signing is indefensible. I like the Randle signing, I thought it showed a forward-thinking approach, but Gibson makes no sense. We now have three players whose best position is PF: Knox, Randle, and Gibson. None can play center and Knox is the only one who can play SF.

  192. The Gibson deal sucks, but maybe we can unload his second year to some team that wants an expiring? Looking for a silver lining. FYI, even with that deal, Perry doing better than I expected so far (though plenty of time left to disappoint).

  193. I’m going to assume there is no team option on the Randle contract because that would have required somebody smart to have been involved in it

  194. I would bet lots of money both Noel and Bell will make considerably less than 20 million. Fire Perry he is now officially a fraud.

  195. You know, there now are two reasons I hope the Knicks land Kawhi: one because he’s great; and the other is just so Isola would just shut the fuck up.

  196. Kyrie and KD taking less than the max so DJ can get a 4yr-40m deal. They must really like that dude.

  197. The eternal recurrence of being a 21st century Knicks fan is the hellish repetition of years of ridicule and ineptitude punctuated by brief promises of deliverance resulting in utter disappointment whereby the cycle is repeated again and again. This is the seventh cycle in my estimation – Antonio McDyess injury being the first, the Starbury years being the second, the failure to acquire any major free agents during the Lebron/Wade sweepstakes a third, the Melo/Amar’e era is the fourth, I will include Linsanity as a brief fifth, Porzingis’ era is the sixth, and now we can count this 2019 free agency as the seventh and final iteration of that Sisyphean existence we call Knicks team building.

  198. Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    Free agents Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving are taking less than the max to allow DeAndre Jordan to get the $10M annual salary with Brooklyn, lea

    Ahahahaha.
    KD didn’t even take the max.
    Hahaha

    Every NBA player sees this franchise for what it is. WhT the fuck are we doing caring about this sorry ass team?

  199. The team option 3rd year makes the Randle signing tolerable, but it still reeks of desperation. He so far hasn’t proven himself to be anything more than hollow numbers at best. I can only hope he puts up monster numbers just so we can dangle him as trade bait later. At least he’s still super young. I just hope we don’t delude ourselves into thinking his numbers on a non-playoff team will justify any sort of extension I hope he doesn’t get.

    I don’t really understand the Gibson signing. I guess he’s a veteran, but I don’t know who he’s supposed to mentor. Knox maybe? Nothing against Taj, but I dont really see what he brings to the team other than experience. Maybe someone knows more, but does he have a track record of being a glue guy or mentor?

  200. If we were going to overpay for experience and defense why not Beverley? Instead of Gibson for 2 years 20 million, do Beverley for 2 years 40 million. At least he would start.

    Gibson is going to play 15 minutes a game and make 10 million a year.

  201. I would prefer to resign Vonleh too but you gotta look at it like this. Taj is probably fine with being Randle’s back up whereas Vonleh, having started a lot last year and being so young might have not wanted the demotion to back up behind Randle. I bet Vonleh ends up somewhere he can play a larger role if he can find it.

  202. Also I do like that Perry is setting us up for cap space in two years when the free agency class is again a loaded one. Keep building with the youngsters, improve where we can and hopefully be a team on the upswing in two years that can do what Brooklyn just did but with free agents who aren’t flat earthers and injured 32 year olds.

  203. i think folks are just being overly negative…. we’re gonna have loads of cap room by the end of this offseason .. unless we do something monumentally stupid which yea i’m fearful of too….

    but save for that looking at past posts… most folks would have been happy with that outcome… and unless there’s someone actually traded for cap room this whole renting cap space deal was likely some fantasy….

    i’m not sure what ppl were honestly expecting unless you were gonna get outraged no matter what which is the feeling i’m getting….

  204. I’m negative about the Gibson signing. We need talent more than leadership. We need to take flyers on young players. It’s like Noah all over again. No one was signing Gibson for much more than the minimum. Yet we bid against ourselves, again, and overpaid.

  205. Isola in his article with a great statement from a Garden executive on Steve Mills when he was rehired in September 2013:

    “We had just won the division but he told us he wanted to take the franchise in a different direction,” a former Garden executive said on Sunday. “Well, he succeeded.”

  206. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    The two year timing is probably not an accident. There will be a couple of years development and more competitive basketball, maybe make the playoffs in year 2 to get that experience, and then take another shot at free agency.

  207. i’m not sure what ppl were honestly expecting unless you were gonna get outraged no matter what which is the feeling i’m getting….

    I dunno, it seems like pretty gobsmackingly obvious that there were a million better things to do with that money than sign 34-year old Taj Gibson. That’s just the most uncreative, mediocre waste of resources. I don’t think it’s a case of people complaining because they were going to complain no matter what. It’s a nonsensical signing and does nothing whatsoever to impact the future of the team. Opportunity cost is a real thing. Surely there must have been better ways to spend that money.

  208. Taj Gibson is a headscratcher. I have always had a grudging respect for him. But not 2o million dollars worth.

  209. If we are just going to waste our cap space for the next two years at least waste it overpaying good players on short contracts, not redundant players on the downside of their career.

    When our free agent plans fell through I wanted to see some out of the box creativity. This is not that.

  210. Lmao

    WhY wOuLd wE ReNt sPacE fOr pIcKs

    WeRe gEtTiNg DuRaNt KYrIe n LaWhI lMAO

  211. On a more lively note, I suggest anyone who likes smart horror intermixed with prescient themes see this relatively new Netflix zombie series Kingdom. It mixes martial arts, political intrigue, and zombie horror together so seamlessly it makes the Walking Dead pale in comparison. Reminds me a lot of the World War Z book Max Brooks wrote before Hollywood took it and ruined it with that Brat Pitt movie.

  212. Jimmy Butler is being signed-and-traded by Sixers to Heat ($32.7M max) in exchange for Josh Richardson ($10.1M). Heat still needs to send out $16.0M+ to a third team in order to trade-match (which would also keep Miami below the hard cap if they stretch Ryan Anderson).

    Perry? Are you there? aah prob working on Cousins deal

  213. The more I think about it, it’s pretty remarkable how Mills took over a 54 win team who while was older at least had an actual identity and playing style but quickly turned into garbage as soon as Mills was rehired for no reason whatsoever.

  214. @322

    It would be rather Knicksian for us to sign the broke down Golden State Warrior who no one really wants.

  215. I don’t want to hear about veteran presence and mentoring and all that shit. There is no evidence that that stuff has any kind of impact. Supposedly that was Lance Thomas ‘ value too, and we just waived him because he was grossly overpaid at $7m. Now we have an older Taj at $10m to play the same position as Knox and Randle. Huh?

    Complete and utter waste. I ‘d rather sign 56 year old Hakeem Olajuwon on a veteran’s minimum than Taj for $20m.

  216. I mean, at a bare minimum, why wouldn’t you exhaust any and all possibilities before even thinking about this Taj Gibson deal? The worst case scenario is you lose out on…Taj Gibson. There are still interesting RFAs, and the Wolves seem desperate as hell to open up space.

    The Taj Gibson contract won’t single-handedly prevent this team from being good, but it’s indicative of a front office philosophy that very well might.

  217. At least we won’t be signing Boogie. Right? You could never add Boogie to a team with Randle and Mitch. So that’s comforting…

  218. There is no price any executive would pay to get rid of the Wiggins mistake. The Knicks shouldn’t do that to their fans.

    I’m really rooting for Perry and Fizdale. I’d hate to see them do foolishness this summer.

  219. Ed Davis, who is six years younger than Taj and just as good, got half as much money from Utah.

  220. look i agree.. there are better ways to spend 20mm than give to gibson… i just don’t think it’s the apocalypse….

    unless we’re giving demarcus cousins the max… or if we get kawhi drunk and get his signature on a contract… we’re probably gonna have a lot of cap room left…. even if you assume payton and bullock and even maybe one more person….

    how bad is it really? who’s trading cap room for picks? has that actually happened? is that even being rumored to happen? are you taking on the wiggins deal?

    i mean ed davis at 5mm per at 2 years is obviously WAY better of a deal… but we’re talking backup frontcourt players on a two year deal… it’s not really killing us and aside from that ONE deal i’m not looking at so many missed opportunities….

    yes in a vacuum it sucks… but i think the doom and gloom should wait until whoever the next guy is signed… and that’s probably gonna go for less than the gibson deal so it’s probably not gonna be major anyway…. that’s why i’m saying just ease up…. this is way more negative than it deserves…..

  221. I go to spend some time with my wife only to return and find….Taj Gibson? What in the…? It’s a joke, right? Ha ha! Good one! Got me! Wait…

    If the Knicks trade for Wiggins, it will feel for me like a few months ago when the Mets completed the Robinson Cano trade. A horrible feeling of despair and hopelessness. I really didn’t think that the Mets would do something so totally stupid, yet they did. Sort of like their version of the Eddy Curry trade, if Curry had been 35 at the time of the trade.

  222. As long as Dolan is in charge of this franchise, should we have any doubt that he will never hire competent individuals to run this team. Is it any wonder that no top free agents would ever consider joining this train wreck of a franchise. I’ll always be a fan, but I really have little hope that the Knicks will ever be relevant again in my lifetime, as long as Guitar Jimmy controls this team’s fate. Fire Mills! Fire Perry!

  223. If the Knicks trade for Wiggins, it will feel for me like a few months ago when the Mets completed the Robinson Cano trade. A horrible feeling of despair and hopelessness. I really didn’t think that the Mets would do something so totally stupid, yet they did. Sort of like their version of the Eddy Curry trade, if Curry had been 35 at the time of the trade.

    Despite putting on a positive face I had my worries that BVW was a salesman who was hired by a very gullible Mets ownership who fell in love with a smooth talking charlatan. He worked for the same Creative Artists Agency which ran MSG behind the scenes during Carmello Anthony’s tenure on the Knicks. You can see a similar dynamic with the Mets hiring CAA castoffs not only on our roster like Cano, and in upper management giving Jessica Mendoza a cushy front office type job with no real duties while she also works as a broadcaster for ESPN.

  224. Looks like Mario is off to Portland for a 1 year minimum with player option. Don’t hate that for Portland. We will always have the Giannis poster and LeBron block.

  225. The Mets has two finalists for the GM job. One was an analytics guy, the other was an agent. They hired the agent. It went disastrously. They’re in the same situation, there’s no hope until they hire the idiot who just got hired.

    BVW did do a good job in the MLB draft though, he essentially gamed the system and stole a first round pick caliber player. Yay for that, but that’s been the only bright spot of his tenure.

  226. Ed Davis, who is six years younger than Taj and just as good, got half as much money from Utah.

    Just in case anyone here can’t read, I didn’t say anything about Gibson’s signing other than he had a better statistical season than Vonleh and if anyone wants to look at the majority of pertinent stats I don’t see how there is an argument. If you want to cherry pick a stat or two you can do whatever you like but one guy had better TS%, eFG, ws/48, BPM, whatever…. Gibson has been a solid pro for a decade and last season playing20+ mpg he had a very solid season. He brings competence to a limited back up role and that is something that has been sorely scarce around here.

    Anyone who thinks Vonleh was better last season just isn’t paying attention.

    Whether he is good value at that price is an entirely different issue

  227. @336 Can’t wait for a capped out core of KD, Kyrie, and DAJ to not win anything in the next 4 yrs. Isn’t everyone glad that’s not the risky longshot road we took?

    Thank God Mavs not getting Dragic. My heart sunk for a sec. Worse than when I saw the shitty Gibson deal.

  228. I could have gotten behind an Ed Davis signing. I’m still dumbfounded over Gibson for 20 million.

  229. Okay, here’s some rose-colored spin:
    1) We got RJ, who was the consensus #1 player coming out of HS and for the first half of the year. He was the most sought-after freshman other than Zion. The tank embraced by our FO this year worked..not to perfection, but it worked.
    2) We have Mitch. We did not squander the best draft pick since Ewing. We have him locked up for 3 more years. As soon as this year, he will be the best defensive player in the league not named Kawhi or Gobert.
    3) We still have exciting young players to watch….DSJ, Knox, Brasdeikis, Frank, plus the undrafted guys…and a couple of them are bound to develop into real NBA rotation players.
    4) We have 6 first-round picks in the next 4 years, and two likely to be in the 30’s second round picks in the next 2 years.
    5) We have Julius Randle to wreck some shit up on O.
    6) We have Taj Gibson, a grizzled but likeable vet on an overpay, but he is a legit NBA grit-n-grind genre rotation player and a pro’s pro…unlike Lance, Afflalo, DWill before him.
    7) We still have $40 mill in cap space to light on fire or use wisely.
    8) We DON’T have any albatross contracts for the first time in forever.

  230. WhY wOuLd wE ReNt sPacE fOr pIcKs

    WeRe gEtTiNg DuRaNt KYrIe n LaWhI lMAO

    This is a Knick’s fan hostage video Son of Sam style…..

  231. Okay, here’s some rose-colored spin:
    1) We got RJ, who was the consensus #1 player coming out of HS and for the first half of the year. He was the most sought-after freshman other than Zion. The tank embraced by our FO this year worked..not to perfection, but it worked.
    2) We have Mitch. We did not squander the best draft pick since Ewing. We have him locked up for 3 more years. As soon as this year, he will be the best defensive player in the league not named Kawhi or Gobert.
    3) We still have exciting young players to watch….DSJ, Knox, Brasdeikis, Frank, plus the undrafted guys…and a couple of them are bound to develop into real NBA rotation players.
    4) We have 6 first-round picks in the next 4 years, and two likely to be in the 30’s second round picks in the next 2 years.
    5) We have Julius Randle to wreck some shit up on O.
    6) We have Taj Gibson, a grizzled but likeable vet on an overpay, but he is a legit NBA grit-n-grind genre rotation player and a pro’s pro…unlike Lance, Afflalo, DWill before him.
    7) We still have $40 mill in cap space to light on fire or use wisely.
    8) We DON’T have any albatross contracts for the first time in forever.

    Other than #3 its pretty true

  232. My best hope is for something like Atlanta’s breakout this year, meaning due to the development of their young players.

  233. @346
    Hey, Z-man, I think Steve Mills hacked your account!

    BTW, what about charismatic young Coach Fiz!?

  234. Fiz is perfect for this team…a preacher/salesman who can be fired when the team is ready for a real coach.

  235. The way that the roster is currently constructed, the best hope for some modicum of success this year is that either RJ or DSJ take a leap and become the lead guard we’ve been praying for since, I dunno, Clyde?

  236. We all are still alive, so we can still possibly see a championship before we are dead. That’s a plus.

  237. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Wow, the Mavs just picked up Goran Dragic. They could be pretty good this year!

    That was a head scratcher for me. I thought Dallas had committed to putting the ball in Doncic’s hands as a point forward and were looking more for defensive minded PG that could pace the floor (like Beverly) . But I’ve been told that Dragic and Doncic player well off each other in Europe.

    Edit: OK I see the deal changed?

  238. D’Angelo Russell makes sense under Steve Kerr, but he makes zero sense with that roster and their current contract commitments. Maybe they think Klay can play the 3?

  239. Wow. I wonder what the Nets are getting in exchange. Their FO is running laps around Mills and Co.

  240. They don’t have Klay next year. He will fit in well next to Curry. You have to defend both of them and they can both pass.

  241. that is really interesting…. i wish we got in on dlo but that seems like a good spot for him to realize his potential….

    warriors went from overpowered back to an interesting team….

  242. Memphis traded for Iguodala to help Golden State get cap space and they include a 1st rd pick, too progressive for the Knicks to do.

  243. Russel to warriors. why didnt we do that.

    The Nets did that to screw the Knicks.
    Here’s a fact. There was not only collusion, the no-tampering rule is a steaming pile of horse dung.

  244. This seems like a super awkward fit… are they expecting Russell to eventually take over when Curry is done? Because replacing KD with Russell does not seem like a good move, unless Klay returns 100% from injury and plays the 3 full time. Even then, you take Russell off the ball, or Curry, and Russell is not a super consistent 3 point shooter…. super super weird.

    Also, why couldn’t we take the Iguodala contract? Don’t they want veteran mentors or some stupid shit like that?

  245. I think we can finally answer the question posed by Brian, “Is Perry a good GM”?
    An emphatic NO!

  246. that pick could be pretty decent… it wouldd be near the tail end of a klay’s and dlo’s deal so they almost certainly will have some kind of cap room but could also be a lotto pick….

    that was a missed opportunity…. and really fit into the veteran presence thing that the knicks kind of value too…

  247. It’s fun to watch these other teams swap assets and try creative stuff and our big move was to clear space for free agents who didn’t want to come here and then sign Taj Gibson

  248. Just wait until Dlo posts a video of Steph talking about the time he cheated on Ayesha.

  249. I dunno. The D-Lo to Warriors scenario seemed a little left field, so I am not sure we can crucify the front office just yet when there were a number of teams with cap space that could have done the same thing. I agree making a move like taking Iggy is what we should look to do, but it doesn’t seem like it was exactly broadcast to the league based on the reaction.

  250. @373
    You better be joking. If so, I’m really going to be sick.

    I’m reading it is one pick, but with protections will be in either 2024 (1-4 protected), 2025 (1 protected) or 2026 if not before. Just one pick. They can’t send picks in three consecutive years, I think.

    Still wanted it. For just one year of Iggy.

  251. The Taj Gibson move is whatever. We’re clearly punting the next 2 years to let players develop. We have the cap space and Gibson is decent and okay taking a backup role.

    For those saying Taj can’t play center, is that really our concern right now? Lol.

    Our future is staked on RJ, Mitch, and Randle becoming star-like players. Bonus if anyone else gets decent. If we can get to where the Nets are now by 2021, we can make a decent case to the star free agents.

    Is that the best plan? Meh. Is it a bad plan? At least it’s not that. I really don’t think it matters too much who we have the next 2 years.

  252. Emotionally, I still would’ve liked Kyrie + Durant to have been Knicks. Rationally, I’m OK with not rolling the dice on 2 1/2 years of possibly really good-but-but-no-longer-great Durant, and as much as I admire Kyrie’s game I think there’s enough concern over his leadership skills given he’d be the best player on a struggling team for one year.

    Maybe $10 mil is a little too much for Gibson at his age, but at only 2 years, it’s not a great indictment of Perry. Rather have him as the “locker-room glue” and vet presence vs Lance.

    Right on cue, one of my coworkers here texts me on some #lolKnicks bs. *sigh*

  253. Is that the best plan? Meh. Is it a bad plan? At least it’s not that. I really don’t think it matters too much who we have the next 2 years.

    You can use cap space for other shit besides aging role players like Taj Gibson. There are things you can do, you can use that cap space to acqui—— GAAAAAAH FUCK IT.

  254. 3 first rounders w Iggy. 3

    According to ESPN, the Warriors are getting a pick or picks for Iguodala, not sending them out.

  255. Yeah, nothing horrible right now. Hopefully now just fill out the roster with real cheap guys, young ones. See if Kornet comes back inexpensively.

    Keep $30m or so cap space for January. Surely there will be chances to facilitate a trade or two and get a nice pick or two. But, does this FO even have such an idea on their radar?

  256. Maybe out of respect of what’s he’s done for them, GS gave Iggy a bit of a choice on where they could trade him given the circumstances…

  257. @386
    All the Knicks had to do is tell Warriors/Iggy that they will release him if the Knicks get the first rounder. He’d get to play anywhere he wants.

    Woj says GS is sending the pick, not getting it.

  258. @381 – it’s wasting an asset. How many better uses could they have used this cap space on? It’s all about opportunity cost? Either spend the money renting out space in exchange for picks or find value assets with future upside. This signing is neither and again is just a waste of assets.

  259. We signed Bobby Portis, 2 years $31 million

    Never been a fan, but I guess he’s young and has upside or something?

    I’m going to bed, maybe when I wake up I’ll be a fan of another NBA team.

  260. Portis to the Knicks for 2yr-31m. Why the hell did they sign Gibson if they’re signing both Randle and Portis?? Robinson is going to lose minutes isn’t he dear God.

  261. I’m now with you, guys. The FO are total idiots. $46M AAV for a bunch of power forwards. I guess Portis is also the backup center.

    Wait. Is Portis going to START at center?

  262. Warriors is signing russel. THey could have just signed and trade KD.
    Russel to warriors. why didnt we do that.

    It’s okay that you’re stupid like the rest of us, just let the smart guys play their game, we don’t understand anything, we’re too risk-averse, we don’t know good players from bad, we trust advanced stats too much, we overly focus on the win curve, we can’t accept that sometimes you need to overpay young players and trade many draft picks to get them on their 2nd deal, smdh

  263. The Knicks best asset is their young cost controlled Center and they’re hell bent on signing as many players as possible who play his position.

  264. Ahahahaha these stupid fucks signed 3 mediocre power forwards for almost 50 million dollars

    It’s called depth, dummy, one mediocre PF goes down, you plug in another mediocre PF.

  265. Portis and Gibson for $25M AAV? Oof. Ok. I’m out on Perry. God it sucks to be a Knicks fan.

    Chris Haynes reported team option for Randle’s 3rd year. Woj reported the total value and length but didn’t mention option. Popper reported no option on third year but now reporting partial guarantee on third year.

  266. Isn’t Portis a thug, too? Didn’t he run himself out of Chicago?

    They must have signed him to START at C. $15.5m per? To be a backup?

  267. The Portis deal is probably what we should have given Randle. I would be on board with it if we didn’t just sign Gibson.

    For the sake of the fans, the FO could have at least spread out some of these front court signing so I was not inundated with “Lol Knicks” messages on the 1st day of FA.

  268. Now the Portis signing, I don’t get.
    Even if that’s a fair number… I guess I should say that I could understand signing two of Randle/Gibson/Portis but not all three.

    Sounds like four things:
    1. They’ve been listening to you guys about the frutlessness of one-year deals.
    2. They’re really banking on their player development for the next two years.
    3. They’re punting on this summer and next for marquee/top tier free agents.
    4. Perhaps Taj will backup Randall and Portis.

  269. Isn’t Portis a thug, too? Didn’t he run himself out of Chicago?

    I probably wouldn’t use the word thug, but the story is that Mirotic went after him hard and Portis caught him flush.

    Bobby Portis is your new starting center, guys. Not Mitch. Let that sink in.

  270. I mean the NBA forced Donald Stirling to sell the Clippers. I think we need that same intervention by the league at this point on our behalf. I realize the circumstances are different, but please already. This level of ownership and front office incompetence is just mind numbing.

  271. i like the portis deal…. but the gibson deal now makes even less sense…. did washington renounce portis? don’t they have the option to match this? unless they think portis is gonna play some 3?

    it seems like taj based on the pecking order in terms of money is gonna be getting 10mm per year to be playing 20mpg or less…. pretty wack but at least there’s good depth in the frontcourt…..

    good news at least… these are all 2 year deals…. and portis and randle could also be really good players that could be part of the next good knicks squad if it works out….

    bad news… i think we’re signing bullock and a pg now… and possibly using up a lot more of our cap than i thought…. wasn’t expecting portis after the gibson deal…. again… probably two year deals but this sounds like why we’re not renting out our space….

    not sure how i feel about that….

  272. Terrible GMing from Perry here. Underrated bad part of this deal is that we’re unlikely to re-sign Kornet when we just committed 116m to PF/Cs…all of whom are worse than Kyle O’Quinn. Fire Perry & Mills and someone assassinate James Dolan. Just fucking moronic. This is afflalo and williams/afflalo and Carter all over again. We could’ve gotten a pick for Tony Snell, who has a two year contract and plays a position of need. But we only sign veteran players at above market value, we never trade for them if they come with a pick. Kills the idea that they were brought in to teach the young ones, or something.

  273. I think the NBA needs to put a brief moratorium on FA for 24-48 hours. I am worried for the safety of some of our KB community.

  274. What player development when the 3 guys they signed today will be taking up the majority of the frontcourt minutes?? They still have about 27m left of cap space which Im sure will go to a couple of wing players, at this point the only young guys who will be getting minutes next season will be RJ and DSJr.

  275. its not 3 first rounders, its just one with the listed protections and future protections

  276. Bobby Portos is surprisingly overrated as a player (which is hilarious bc he’s not that highly rated). This deal makes the already shitty Gibson deal so much worse. Fuck me. I actually got mildly optimistic when we dodged the Nets core and signed Randle to a halfway decent deal (assuming option). What is wrong with me!?

  277. I liked the Randle signing, that to me made sense and I could get behind it. But following that with signing Gibson AND Portis is batshit insane. Perry and Mills have no fucking clue what they’re doing but we all knew that already unfortunately.

  278. After the Portis deal it’s clearly revealed!!! FO is trying to resurrect the bad ass 90s team ! What a plan !!! Bobby the puncher as COakley, Julius the bulldozer as AMason and Taj the furius as Xavier Mc Daniel ! Can’t explain this PF fiesta otherwise….

  279. one of the best rookies in league history and they make him Bobby Portis’s understudy

    unreal

    where’s ruruland to tell us about floor spacing and usage soaking

  280. Steve Mills interned, so to speak, under Isiah Thomas and Phil Jackson. And Mills learned NOTHING.

    He’s the common denominator in all this. He’s to the Knicks what Jeff Wilpon is the the Mets. He’s the disease.

  281. well in terms of youth…. they definitely are going to be a LOT younger and basically anyone not named taj right now is under 25….

    portis 23
    randle 24
    rj 19
    dsj 21
    mitch 21
    trier 23
    iggy 20

  282. STUPID FUCKS SPOT ON. 100%

    I actually like the Julius Randle signing but to follow it up with Taj GIbson and Bobby Portis and some stupid Steve Mills message. fuck off

  283. Congratulations to the front office on their incremental increase from a 17 win to a 27 win season, and that’s being generous. There is no plan in site here. Ugh!

  284. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Unless the Knicks plan on playing 3 out of Robinson, Frank, Gibson, and Dotson at all times, our defense is going to suck next year. It’s like these sit around looking at boxscore stats all day and have no concept of defense at all.

  285. This is way worse than I ever would have imagined in my wildest imagination.

    Three power forwards. That’s what they used the cap money on. $25M a year worth of Bobby Portis and Taj Gibson.

    This is kind of epic. These guys are almost as bad as Phil.

  286. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    There is no plan in site here. Ugh!

    The plan is to keep accumulating scorers, give lip service to defense, and in 2 years try for free agent stars again. They are rolling over cap space with a kicker that most of these guys are young and one or more could get better. It wouldn’t be so terrible if any of them could defend or at least had a chance to become a two way player.

    (oh yeah, throw in a overpaid old veteran here or there to teach the kids)

  287. If i had to guess… bullock is gonna be getting 2 years at 8mm per…. and payton will be getting 2 yrs at 15mm per….

    that would be a massive punt of an offseason…..

  288. Why stop now? Let’s sign Jabari Parker and both Morris twins with our remaining cap space.

  289. You know, if Perry and co were looking for “veteran leadership”…guess we could’ve kept Courtney Lee and THJr?

    In true Knicks fashion everything has blown up in our face. They’re trying to be the Nets (attract Giannis in two years with 41-41 8 seed team) except unlike Sean Marks they have no idea what good players or value deals look like, so we’re going to be a 30 win team permanently friend zoned in every star free agency with no contingency plan except “well I guess we punt for two more years bc the law of averages says at some point SOME star free agent will deign to take our money!” Only RJ learning to shoot and steal the ball can save us from permanent cellar dwelling end my life please.

    MECCA OF BASKETBALL BABY

  290. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Three power forwards.

    Taj Gibson is probably going to be the backup C at this stage of his career.

    Hell, I could make the case that Randle might turn out to an undersized backup C too, albeit one that can score really well.

  291. From Uproxx:
    https://uproxx.com/dimemag/bobby-portis-knicks-free-agency-wizards-offer-sheet-power-forwards/2/

    The key part

    With that decision, New York has now filled up a good portion of their salary cap with power forwards, creating a very interesting roster dynamic. That’s especially the case considering one of the few bright spots on the roster is young center Mitchell Robinson, who it now would appear is going to be fighting for playing time with their new free agent signings.

    In a vacuum, none of the deals are all that egregious, even if the Randle and Portis annual salaries seem a bit steep. The plan is clearly to have space again in two years with all three potentially coming off the books, but they just don’t even make much sense from the standpoint of building any kind of roster for the next two years that could grow and succeed to much of any degree.

    Uh, yeah.

  292. Randle and Portis will be starting with Gibson getting significant minutes off the bench is the only way to justify these signings which means MRob is going to lose minutes which is freaking ridiculous.

  293. It’s fun to watch these other teams swap assets and try creative stuff and our big move was to clear space for free agents who didn’t want to come here and then sign Taj Gibson

    Honestly we could end the whole website with this.

    What’s the point anymore? We like talking to each other. Let’s just join a baking club.

  294. Not for nothing, but there had been reports of their interest in Portis and Randle for some time now, so that also belies the whole “you never know what Perry is up to!” stuff.

  295. If mitch doesn’t get starters minutes I’m picking a new team.

    I was okay with Taj. It’s not a good move, but whatever. I actually like the Randle 3year deal. But also signing Portis? Taj better be ready to ride the pine for 2 years.

    Lol, at least Portis and Randle are young.

  296. @432
    True. But you know, I thought that meant Portis OR Randle. Not Portis and Randle…and Gibson, too!
    :-)

  297. well i can see where they’re going with this… taj is the defense and mentor guy… portis is the stretch guy…. mrob is the tyson chandler-ish guy but who’s probably not ready for primetime and randle is the offense guy….

    what’s most troubling is that they don’t really believe in mrob…. i can’t see how they devote this much caproom on frontcourt players and not think that mitch is ready for at least close to 30mpg….

    that more than anything is the most troubling part… that they have no idea how good their own player is….

  298. Even if Mills and Perry were going all-in on a misguided attempt to win now, these moves don’t even do that. They all play the same position!!! It defies belief. Even Phil understood the concept of positional basketball.

    It’s stupefying. Truly unbelievable.

  299. After missing out on Durant and Kyrie Irving, Knicks president Steve Mills had wanted to sign Tier 2 or Tier 3 free agents to one- or two-year guaranteed deals. The Knicks didn’t want to give Randle or Gibson a fully guaranteed third year, which would give them less flexibility in 2021 when Giannis Antetokounmpo can become a free agent.

    Ha ha ha ha. That is amazing

  300. The only GM the Knicks have had recently who sort of had a clue on how to build an actual team was Grunwald but as soon as he put together an actual good team Dolan forced him to trade for Bargs then immediately replaced him with Mills. Not surprisingly it’s been all downhill since then.

  301. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    In a vacuum, none of the deals are all that egregious, even if the Randle and Portis annual salaries seem a bit steep. The plan is clearly to have space again in two years with all three potentially coming off the books, but they just don’t even make much sense from the standpoint of building any kind of roster for the next two years that could grow and succeed to much of any degree.

    Almost exactly what I am saying.

    I would only add the defense is probably going to be horrible. We were horrible last year and we are losing Vonleh and gaining Portis and Randle. Gibson plays defense, but he’s just veteran filler and won’t get a lot of minutes.

    If any of you still had any questions about whether they overvalue scoring relative to defense, that debate should be over. These guys are utterly clueless in player evaluation. They look at height, length, athleticism, shot creation and scoring. Defense it not even part of the conversation.

  302. Then when Greek Freak doesnt sign here it’ll be hold cap space until 2024 when Zion could become a FA.

  303. Grades in a vacuum:
    Randle C+
    Taj D-
    Portis C-

    Grade of the moves all being made together on a team that needs to develop Mitch and Knox: F(uck me)

  304. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    which would give them less flexibility in 2021 when Giannis Antetokounmpo can become a free agent.

    What are they going to do when he gets extended?

  305. Strato, in a way that’s the only tiny spot of bright in all this. The team will be so bad defensively that they will still lose a ton of games.

    They’re not done yet. One or two more vet signings are coming, probably a PG and a wing/shooter. Mudiay might still be in play.

  306. The Knicks didn’t want to give Randle or Gibson a fully guaranteed third year, which would give them less flexibility in 2021 when Giannis Antetokounmpo can become a free agent.

    Taj for $20m may seem like a bad deal to the untrained eye, but they didn’t give him a third year, so it’s actually a huge win!

  307. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Strato, in a way that’s the only tiny spot of bright in all this. The team will be so bad defensively that they will still lose a ton of games.

    I would say there’s an outside shot one or two of these young guys really breaks out, but even if he does, they’ll probably have him on the bench or in the wrong lineup. We’ll wind up with another lottery pick and they’ll pick another scorer than can’t defend.

    The problem is mostly Dolan/Mills, but Perry has to go too. It’s time to get some young analytical guys that understand the sport beyond basic fan level thinking about scoring. How hard is it to understand that defense matters?

  308. Not advocating for Portis and Gibson, but at the start of the day we had 0 PF’s on the roster. Mitch can’t play every minute (as much as we all really want him to). We needed depth, and we got it. Whether that’s at the right price is debatable, but I don’t know if there is going to be as big an impact on Mitch as what has been anticipated above re: his minutes.

    Mitch was able to outplay Kanter on the Defensive end which earnt him a rotation spot , so no reason to think he doesn’t do the same with whoever he will be competing with for minutes at the 5.

  309. Lakers and Clippers really quiet…waiting for Kawhi to decide. Someone’s gonna be real disappointed.

  310. Kanter was on his final year of his contract and the front office clearly didn’t want him, they just signed 3 big guys to pretty significant deals all for more than 1 year. They’re all going to play and that will definitely impact Mitch’s minutes.

  311. Everything is so dumb and Mitch Rob will probably be traded in the near future. These dumbfucks have no idea he’s not, like, a decent bench big.

    So how about those Gleyber and Voit snubs huh? Ridiculous.

  312. Kanter was on his final year of his contract and the front office clearly didn’t want him, they just signed 3 big guys to pretty significant deals all for more than 1 year. They’re all going to play and that will definitely impact Mitch’s minutes.

    True and an important consideration. However, what is a realistic expectation for Mitch’s minutes? 30? That still leaves 18 at the 5 and 48 at the 4. I mean ultimately Portis and Gibson are expensive role players (heck even only having 1 would have worked), but minutes wise it could work. Emphasis on the “could”.

  313. Gleyber at 22yo might already be the best middle infielder in the AL considering the injuries guys like Altuve, Lindor and Correa have suffered yet he is snubbed. Voit definitely deserves to go over Abreu because of the near 100 points of OPS he has over him and it’s mostly OBP which is even more significant not to mention the AL having for some reason 2 backup DH’s. Very weird AL roster, surprisingly weak.

  314. What’s the point anymore? We like talking to each other. Let’s just join a baking club.

    Yeah, this is pretty much true. I like this blog way better than I like the team.

  315. Yeah dtrickey I mean as much as I hate the Gibson and Portis signings I would’ve understood signing one of them and would’ve preferred Portis because of his age. I have no problems at all with the Randle signing, actually look forward to watching him play. But getting a commitment from Randle then still signing BOTH Gibson and Portis is completely unfathomable.

  316. So Kornet is gone now, right? We couldn’t let him or Vonleh stand in the way of the privilege of paying Randle, Gibson and Portis to get us to a lofty 25 wins and set us up for Giannis, who is absolutely coming here.

    Fuck this. I might need to take a Knicks sabbatical for a week or two.

  317. Power forwards who don’t protect the rim are the cheapest, easiest to find commodity in basketball. You don’t need to pay a premium for those guys.

    This is like drafting a running back in the first round. If you’re not getting a megastar running back, just draft one in the fifth round and you’ll pretty much be fine.

  318. But getting a commitment from Randle then still signing BOTH Gibson and Portis is completely unfathomable.

    It is a head scratcher for sure. It’s not even about signing 3 PF’s. There was obviously a plan to fill the position, but why not wait? I am not too fussed with the names, but the timing and costs is off in my mind. Surely we could have pumped the breaks for a few days and seen how things played out. Chances are Gibson and Portis would have been around on days 2, 3 or 4 (etc.) of FA.

  319. Speaking of Torres and Voit, the Yankees acquired both as prospects in trades from other teams. What a novel concept!! Granted it’s totally different in MLB than NBA in terms of acquiring young talent but man what I would do for the Knicks to have a front office as smart as the Yankees.

  320. What the fuck, did they sign Bobby Portis for 15 million a year???? Why???

    Are they just throwing money at dudes to reach the salary floor and that’s it, that’s all the moves? Sign 3 power forwards?

    I mean, it’s another signing that’s not a disaster but it’s just so damn uninspiring. Two guys with limited ceilings and a random veteran that’s getting overpaid for whatever reason. I can’t even get really angry because they’re not terrible signings or crippling contracts whatsoever, it’s just… horribly uninspiring.

  321. You know what really builds a winning culture? Stacking the team with players who interfere with your stud rookie center’s playing time

  322. I can’t wait to see how they blow the rest of this cap money.

    Cousins max still fits.

  323. Apparently they are also looking at James Ennis. I am not opposed to him (I have a soft spot since his time playing in Australia), but I am not convinced given our run of form today with handing out contracts.

  324. I mean if they’re going to blow all that money, they should have just given it to the hobbled accused rapist

  325. I’ll continue to give them this. They had Durant until he blew out the Achilles, so the KP trade still made sense. They just had bad luck because they’re the Knicks.

    These unforced errors, though? That’s all on them and it is embarrassing.

  326. FWIW, Portis played 77% of his minutes at C for the Wizards. Starting Randle and Portis makes zero sense. Maybe the Knicks plan to pair Mitch & Randle to start with Taj & Portis off the bench. I wouldn’t hate that lineup. Money still makes no sense.

  327. I mean, the roster isn’t inherently terrible (next one will be Elfrid Payton?), but it’s the same old shit. Punting cap space for the sake of… nothing. Perry is another mediocre executive in a league full of promising young execs. Moreover, I really don’t trust Fizdale to work with young guys.

    We are doomed as long as Dolan is the owner.

  328. Starting Lineup:
    DSJr
    RJ
    Bullock
    Randle
    Mitch

    Bench:
    Allen
    Dotson/Frank/Trier
    Knox/Ignas
    Portis
    Taj

  329. Right now: DSJ-Bullock-Barrett-Randle-Mitch (I hope) with the key bench pieces being Frank-Trier-Dotson-Gibson-Portis. I wouldn’t take that team in 2K19 :(

  330. I would imagine that Bullock plays off the bench and Knox continues to start. DSJ/Barrett/Knox/Randle/Portis (because they’re morons) and then Mitch plays so well that they are forced to give him the starting spot soon into the season.

    It’s just such a shitty way to run a basketball team. Two-year deals to random guys but with no room to grow. Except for Randle. Randle’s the one guy you could say, “Okay, he could grow into a star with this team…in theory.”

    I legit thought Taj Gibson was at the point in his career where he was going to consider retiring and instead, he’s signed for two years. Wow.

  331. DSJ/Barrett/Knox/Randle/Portis

    What’s the record for worst defense of all time?

    I could see bringing RJ off the bench since he’s the rook and starting Knox and Bullock.

  332. LOL WHAT THE FUCK IS WITH ALL THESE CONTRACTS. IF YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR FUCKING THIS SHIT AND BE NON-COMPETITIVE THEN WHY NOT JUST DO WHAT THE FLYING FUCK THE GRIZZLIES DID AND JUST TAKE ON IGGY’s CONTRACT AND GET A PICK.

    THE FACT THEY DIDN’T DO THAT THEY ARE LITERALLY FUCKING CHIMPS IN THE FRONT OFFICE THROWING DARTS AT THE FREE AGENCY LIST. OR ACTUALLY WORSE THEY THINK THIS TEAM IS COMPETITIVE ENOUGH TO WIN????

    EVERYONE KNOWS THIS FUCKING GOD FORSAKEN TEAM IS NOT WINNING, IF YOU WANT TO USE THE CAP SPACE TAKE ON BAD CONTRACTS AND TAKE PICKS. STEVE MILLS AND SCOTT PERRY PLEASE JUST FUCKING STOP, MAKE IT STOP.

  333. @481
    Normally I’m not a fan of all caps, but in this cast it is totally warranted.

    The Bullock signing is horrible. Just wait, one more vet to go, maybe a PG. These morons are trying to build a 32 win team and pick around 9 or 10 in next year’s lottery, and probably in 2021, too.

    Unless RJB flourishes, the team will not have anywhere near enough of a solid young core to sign a big free agent in 2021. It’ll be rinse and repeat.

  334. You know what it really seems like? It honestly seems like they think that being a dumping ground and getting a pick out of is undignified. I seriously believe that that plays a role in their thinking. That it reflects poorly on the Knicks to be a dumping ground for bad contracts. As otherwise, what in the fucking fuck? The Grizzlies just got a first round pick for taking on the contract of Andre fucking Igoudala, who is actually still a good player and could easily be traded in the future, just not at this specific moment when the Warriors needed the deal to be done. And they’re not interested because they need that cap space to sign Taj fucking Gibson.

  335. I am so confused by our offseason. It’s not just that it’s bad it’s that it’s bad in a completely nonsensical way. I cannot really understand what we are doing. Are we really paying 25 million a year for our back up center and power forward?

    Randle and Bullock make some sense but then it just starts falling apart.

  336. Bullock too? Damn. Mills is going to get two more years by selling Dolan on the promise of 2021 free agency, then there will be rumors everywhere and we’ll end up with nothing again. They’re just giving random 10 million deals to useless dudes to fill the roster, guys who clearly are not going to be part or our long term future and who are only going to take minutes away from the youngsters. At least they’re all bad enough that we shouldn’t expect many wins to screw the lottery next year, but damn.

    I hate this fucking franchise so much. Ugh.

  337. I was actually hopeful when news of the Randle deal with the non-guaranteed third year came out but since then it has been worse than I could have ever imagined. I truly cannot understand their thinking.

  338. I was actually hopeful when news of the Randle deal with the non-guaranteed third year came out but since then it has been worse than I could have ever imagined. I truly cannot understand their thinking.

    And note that the pick dumping market is still quite fruitful during all of it. They just have no interest in it. Igoudala is seriously better than Bullock and actually plays defense and the Knicks could have gotten him and gotten a pick, but noooooo…

    Ugh.

  339. Knicks aside this has probably been the most wild opening to a FA period ever.

    Insane, right? $2 billion committed in the first, like, hour.

  340. At least I guess the Perry is a ninja narrative can go have a peaceful death, since they basically signed every guy we were talking about for days, Bullock, Randle and Portis, all rumored to be signed before today.

    I love Bullock as a person, he has a very tragic yet heartwarming story of becoming a LGBTQ ally, helping with charities and awareness since his trans sister died, but he’s just not a good basketball player. He’s just a 3 and D guy who’s not really a defender and has been inconsistent with his 3 point shot.

  341. I don’t hate Bullock he is grossly overpaid but his shooting should help and I can see how he might fit. But after Gibson and Portis our front office is not getting the benefit of the doubt.

  342. Yeah, Taj and Bullock are good character guys, but overpays and likely to take minutes from young guys who need to play.

    To me Portis is the worst signing of them all. At $15.5m per he’s got to be the starting C.

  343. David Aldridge, nine hours ago, “The Knicks, obviously punched in the gut, have to move on and build a squad. Expect them to go the depth route now, trying to sign several among vets like Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, George Hill, Reggie Bullock, others.” Who the fuck let Aldridge break Perry’s ninja code? Now I expect the Knicks to not sign Hill just to add a little mystery to things.

  344. $10M a year is about league average so whatever, but yeah, not taking Iggy and a GS 2024 pick, which actually may be good, for the right of playing Bullock is malpractice. Seriously malpractice.

  345. And no, these signing don’t turn 17 wins to 32 wins. They’re still a high lottery team unless a couple of the young guys break out.

  346. THERE IS LITERALLY NO PLAN. They had NO FREAKING PLAN B when the struck out. Reading Scott Perry’s bio and his past experience, really affirms he has no fucking clue what he’s doing. He doesn’t have any eye for talent. Yeah, he was part of the front office with the Pistons (PROBABLY ALSO INCLUDES THE GREAT DUMARS SIGNINGS of BEN GORDON, VILLANUEVA AND JOSH SMITH).

    He was also part of the Magic – another team with NO CLEAR PATH WITH TERRIBLE PICKS and BAD SIGNINGs. God, he is just a genius at burning through owner’s cash. Fuck this team and these jokers. Anyone on this board could run this team better than these fucking jokers. Just goes to show, NBA jobs aren’t merit based. The teams with smarter owners know how to find the right personnel.

  347. I think there is a plan. It’s just a terrible, awful, no good plan. “Maybe Giannis will come here in 2021? Maybe?”

  348. The worst thing about all of these deals is that now we have to watch this horseshit ill-fitting unwatchable team full of non-prospects and back-of-roster veterans for an entire two seasons. There’s just not a lot of hope of things ever getting watchable when you have $70M of salary cap tied up in generic, fungible players.

    This is still one of the most talent-poor teams in the league, and then when you add in the fact that the coach seems to be shitty it sure looks like we’re headed to a low-20’s win total even with all of this sweet veteran presence. It’s going to be a very dreary couple of years. There is really nothing to look forward to until the 2020 draft lottery. This could easily be the worst team in the NBA again, so we’re doing The Process without even doing The Process. We’re doing just the shitty part where we lose, and not doing the good part where we accumulate a bunch of draft picks.

    I dunno man. This might be a new low. This might be sub-Isiah, sub-Phil.

  349. We can just hope that RJ Barrett is somehow a star and that Mitch wins the starting gig soon and….shit, there’s very little to look forward to with this team.

  350. If Portis and Randle are the starting frontcourt, you have zero shotblocking. That frontcourt would be a defensive calamity. It’s not like there are good defensive wings or guards either to pick up the slack. This team has major “30th in defensive rating” potential.

  351. Perry is quite good at the trade game, terrible at everything else. We have very limited competence at every level, we’re going to pick in the top five in 2020 and 2021.

    The catch is that we’ll keep on picking the same offensive wing prospect over and over again

  352. Taj and Bobby and Reggie on the first day of FA ?
    There HAS to be a plan…
    A pretty legendary one…
    On another unearthly dimension !

  353. Wowsers…fell asleep early and wake up to find that in light of our PF sitchew, we went OT on the PF market? Why go after both of Randle and Portis? As cheap as we are reportedly getting Portis, it makes the Randle signing look bad. So..what..Portis backs up Mitch? We are suddenly a big man heavy team. It can work..not ideal, but it can work- though I would rather have just brought Vonleh or Kornet back before signing both Randle and Portis.

    Ah well…go get a shooter or 2..preferably a PG that can shoot, and there is a chance to have a strong showing next season. And by strong, I mean 7-8 seed.

  354. Just thought about it..
    Why not swoop in and take Dragic off of Miami’s hands for a 1st? That should conclude the postseason for us for the most part

  355. I think Miami likely believes other teams would take Dragic without requiring a pick. But yes, that would be a great idea (and one that this front office would never think to do).

  356. I went to sleep happy we didn’t sign Boogie and wake up to find we signed Bobby Portis.

    Too dumb. This is seriously fucking stupid.

  357. Isn’t it funny how the Randle signing made it seem, briefly, like they might actually have some semblance of a logical plan (even if you weren’t a Randle fan, the move sort of made sense)? And then they torpedoed it pretty quickly after that.

  358. Hezonja signed with Portland for the vet minimum. Boy, he sure played free agency wrong last year, huh? Portland and the Knicks both offered him basically the MLE. He chose the Knicks and now he’s back with Portland at the minimum the next year.

  359. What’s equally mind-boggling is that we essentially replaced the TH2/Lee contracts we used KP to unload, making the KP deal a total waste of a great asset. Seriously, had we kept Lee and TH2 would we be any worse off? And on top of that, we stretched Noah, which actually DID make us worse off.

    It’s just so boringly stupid. At least with Cousins there was a miniscule probability that he would become a late-blooming legit star. Portis? (who admittedly I liked at draft time) Bullock? (who others wanted us to draft over Shump) Gibson? (is he one of those guys who always played well against us? don’t we always sign those guys?)

  360. While I totally agree (and that was my concern at the time of the KP deal, that the Knicks would fuck up the cap space that they prioritized in the KP deal over actual assets), I also think it is fair to note that they almost assuredly had an under the table deal with Durant that just went sideways when he blew out the Achilles tendon.

    In other words, I only thought that the KP deal was a great move when I thought it was definitely combined with Durant coming here and I think that actually was the case…he just then blew out his Achilles and blew up the deal. So that was more bad luck than anything I can blame Mills and Perry for.

    Everything after that, then yeah, that’s just on them being shitty at their jobs.

  361. If you want more rose-colored glasses thinking, I guess if its a tabula rasa, they stuck with their professed “no long-term FA deals” mantra. Considering the number of long-term cap-killing deals that were signed yesterday, 2021-22 could actually be an interesting time for us. But the performance of the Mills-Perry duo does not instill any confidence that they could ever competently manage an opportunity.

  362. If you want more rose-colored glasses thinking, I guess if its a tabula rasa, they stuck with their professed “no long-term FA deals” mantra. Considering the number of long-term cap-killing deals that were signed yesterday, 2021-22 could actually be an interesting time for us. But the performance of the Mills-Perry duo does not instill any confidence that they could ever competently manage an opportunity.

    They did, but remember when it was first reported (which is weird that it was reported so accurately, since Perry is a ninja who the fake news media could never possibly pin down), I think we all hoped that that part of their back-up plan wouldn’t actually happen, right? Short term deals for the sake of short term deals is not a very good plan. Better than terrible long term deals, sure, but also worse than getting better players on long term deals.

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