NY Post: Knicks push Clippers before running out of steam in loss

From Peter Botte:

The Knicks already had posted several impressive wins this season against some of the NBA’s expected top teams, including Milwaukee, Utah and Boston.

A toe-to-toe victory Sunday would have rocked a full Garden from its foundation to the rafters, but the Knicks ran out of steam inside their empty home arena and their league-leading defense couldn’t stop Los Angeles’ stars in a mostly entertaining 129-115 loss to the high-rolling Clippers.

“They put a lot of pressure on you,” Tom Thibodeau said after the game. “We work, but they put tremendous pressure on you. They also, to their credit, and there’s a reason why they have that record, they play very hard and they play very unselfishly.

“I thought offensively, it was good. Defensively, it’s not what we would have liked.”

Rookie point guard Immanuel Quickley appeared poised to front a comeback from a 12-point third-quarter deficit with 11 of his 25 points off the bench in the fourth, including a couple of 3-pointers to draw the Knicks (9-12) within two with under eight minutes remaining.

But former Knicks forward Marcus Morris, who was traded at last year’s deadline for the eventual 25th-overall pick that enabled the Knicks to draft Quickley, dropped in a corner 3 to reopen the LA lead to nine. Kawhi Leonard (28 points) pushed it back over double digits with 5:40 to go as the title-contending Clippers (16-5) pulled away.

I am not liking these lineups where it is Quickley and, like, four non-entities. I’d love to see Quickley play with RJ more. I want to see what the Knicks have with the two of them.

Beyond that, it was an entertaining game.

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117 thoughts to “NY Post: Knicks push Clippers before running out of steam in loss”

  1. I really believe a Knox trade is on the horizon. I just hope they play it well. With Knox’s effectiveness and minutes consistently dwindling here lately, I hope it means more of a shot for Iggy, and that Ntilikina stays. That said, when this trade is completed, I hope it involves Knox and DSJ for a PG to supplant Elfrid and a pick- then we can trade Elfrid to a contender for a pick.

  2. I’d like to trade DSJ, The Plague and Knox,
    but I honestly think that move them will cost us assets.

    We’re not the only one watching games. The league knows them.
    What can we get for a just demoted to the G-League burned prospect, one of the ten worst player of the last three years and a backup PG who can’t shoot and that we raise from the boardwalk when nobody even tried to sign him in the offseason?

    If you’re a GM, what are you willing to spend for this bag of trash?

  3. I hope it means more of a shot for Iggy, and that Ntilikina stays.

    Unless Iggy goes off in G-league play, I suspect his time on the team is done. Picked by a different regime, Thibs will only play so many kids, and we are deepest at the wing, even if most of our wing players aren’t especially good.

    I would have liked to see Obi get all the backup center minutes yesterday, but Thibs seems to like keeping guys in their roles if he can, so with Noel out, Taj came in.

  4. Knox is definitely still tradeable. DSJ and Frank, though, yeah, not so much. Not saying Knox would net you much, but there would at least be a market for him. Dude can at least hit a three this season.

  5. Knox is definitely the most tradeable of the three,
    I think he has room to improve and I’m not sold 100% on trade him, rather I’d like to keep him and give him a last chance.
    If you’re a GM that want to trade for him, consider that he’s signed for 5,8M next year…

  6. We could definitely get some kind of second round pick for both Knox and Frank, though probably protected in both cases. Nobody would want DSJ unless it’s for a similarly useless player (i.e., DSJ for Malik Monk, so we can get the trifecta of players we considered with the Frank pick).

  7. I’d take Monk. Hell, at this point I’d take Rozier for DSJ and Knox- even though it’s not great for our cap. We can definitely sell Elfrid off to a contender that needs a PG for a 2nd. Lakers..Brooklyn..Milwaukee..Portland..I think they all could use a backup PG

  8. But why do Charlotte, currently eight in the East, accept to trade his second best player (third if you count Lamelo), who’s shooting 43% from 3PT on volume, for DSJ and Knox? Are we blackmailing their GM? :-)

    I’ll be very happy if we get a second for Plague (who has a no trade clause).

  9. We’ve shopped Frank a bunch of times now, including for a single second-round pick, and haven’t received a smidgen of interest. We can put the idea of trading him to bed. I would assume the same is true of DSJ.

    I agree with BC that we could probably get something for Knox by virtue of him being tall and nominally able to shoot, but I am using “something” quite broadly. I doubt we could get an unprotected second-rounder.

    Real bang up job we’ve done picking in the lottery lately, huh? At least RJ looks good.

  10. I would be banking on Charlotte making a dumb trade lol. I do think they like Graham and Ball(obviously) more than Rozier though.

  11. At this point I don’t think many teams would be interested in DSJr unless someone thinks they can “fix” him Mudiay style. lol Mudiay and Trier deserve spots in the league before DSjr.

    Knox is almost as bad, but he’s younger and less physically mature, You could take a look at him for another year before having to make a decision. I think the Knicks are going to keep working with him before throwing the towel and trading him.

    There is still plenty of interest in Frank around the league. It’s simply going to be very hard to trade him unless it’s part of a bigger deal. He’s not playing due to injury and he’ll be a free agent at the end of the year anyway. Teams will be able to get him cheaply in the off season if they want to take a look. Why give up anything to get him? I suspect Thibs understands his potential value also, but even if they want to keep him he’s not worth what they’d have to sign him for.

    He’s not coming back to NY barring a miracle over the rest of the season. From what I’ve read everyone in France wants him out of NY (for good reason), He’s probably going to play out the year and then sign a cheap deal in Orlando, Utah, San Antonio or someplace where they’ll try to develop his offense and turn him into a solid plus role player.

  12. Interest as in, we will sign Frank to our G-League affiliate if it costs us nothing.

    I don’t know, I still think Frank can be an NBA player. But no one is trading an asset for him right now so they can sign an extension.

  13. As ineffective as he’s been, we need Ntilikina. All he needs to do to stick is hit shots. I hope he has been watching how Quickley works on and off the ball and picked something up. His perimeter defense is just too valuable to lose him in favor of Elfrid and maybe even Bullock. If he hits his shots- corner 3’s and midrange mostly- he’s already twice as effective as Kevin Knox. I’m ok with trading one of those two- I’d just prefer it be Knox because of Ntilikina’s one reliable skill being so much better than Knox’s entire game right now

  14. @IanBegley
    Knicks say they’ve assigned Ignas Brazdeikis and Dennis Smith Jr to the Westchester Knicks for the Orlando bubble. Jared Harper is also joining the team’s active roster in Orlando, per team.

    Makes sense. Iggy’s just not going to play here right now, nor is Harper (Frank is still around if we run short of guards), and Pinson is what he is, so better to keep him handy in the event of a rash of injuries.

  15. That IQ floater is really something, huh? What is his shooting percentage off it? Are we looking at one of the great go to shots in the game already?

  16. I think the rule of thumb is, if a guy can’t get significant playing time on the NY Knicks, and play well, there’s not much trade value for him

  17. saw some interesting Knicks related tidbits in a ringer article on the texas basketball teams:

    The injury Porzingis is recovering from marks the 13th to his lower body since entering the league in 2015.

    and

    The problem is Dallas can’t trade a first-round pick until 2027 unless the top-10 protections are removed from the 2023 first being sent to New York. If that happens, then NBA rules would allow Dallas to trade firsts in 2025 and 2027, plus pick swaps in 2022, 2024, and 2026. With the ability to trade their picks and a number of talented young players on the roster, the Mavericks could put together a strong trade package for any star who might become available, such as Wizards guard Bradley Beal.

  18. The problem is Dallas can’t trade a first-round pick until 2027 unless the top-10 protections are removed from the 2023 first being sent to New York. If that happens, then NBA rules would allow Dallas to trade firsts in 2025 and 2027, plus pick swaps in 2022, 2024, and 2026. With the ability to trade their picks and a number of talented young players on the roster, the Mavericks could put together a strong trade package for any star who might become available, such as Wizards guard Bradley Beal.

    That’s interesting. What would you do if you were Leon Rose and the Mavs offered to drop the protection on that pick? On the one hand, that pick could be more valuable, and is also a guaranteed first-rounder in this scenario (if the Mavs get a top 10 pick in 2023, all we get is a second-rounder). On the other, doing this makes it easier for them to trade for somebody like Beal, which will make them stronger and potentially make both the 2021 and 2023 picks lower.

  19. ***if the Mavs get a top 10 pick in 2023, all we get is a second-rounder***

    no it rolls to 24 and 25 firsts also with top ten protection before becoming a 2

  20. Meanwhile, for shits and giggles, Vorkunov and Sam Vecenie did a piece about who the Knicks might draft if the draft were held today with the picks we’d have if the season were to end now. Vecenie suggested Corey Kispert from Gonzaga with the Mavs pick, just to add shooting to a team that desperately needs it, and Sharife Cooper from Auburn with our own pick as a point guard flyer.

    Thoughts?

  21. Alan: Makes sense. Iggy’s just not going to play here right now, nor is Harper (Frank is still around if we run short of guards), and Pinson is what he is, so better to keep him handy in the event of a rash of injuries.

    There may be some gamesmanship to these moves. If Mr. 7-man rotation ever needs to go to Iggy, we may as well just have the game postponed since we’re losing anyway. This way covid protocol for our starters* doesn’t result in an auto-loss.

    *starters as a shorthand for good players, Elf & BulLOCK you need to act like a mid 2000s dance movie franchise and Step Up. Also, I realize the irony of needing a footnote for a shorthand that takes 2 sentences.

  22. RJ’s month of Jan

    2p% – .492
    3p% – .351 (!)
    ft% – .750
    ts% – .542

    RJ has really turned it up in the last 10 or so games but it’s basically been sustained for the entire month… his 3p shooting might not be as good as this month is showing but i think we can safely expect it to move towards what he achieved last year (32%) with an outside shot to best it given where the rest of his shooting is at…

    top 10 players – age 20 / 2p fg% between .460 -.500 / FTr <.375 / 3PAr <.270

    Luol Deng
    Jrue Holiday
    Kyrie Irving
    Kobe Bryant
    Derrick Rose
    Michael Beasley
    Joe Johnson
    Harrison Barnes
    Brandon Ingram
    Gordon Hayward

    This isn't a comp list and should not be treated as such but it just gives you an idea what we can expect if he does improve or doesn't improve with his current shot mix…. or some sort of upside/downside estimator… like with everything it's mixed…. josh jackson/andray blatche/tim thomas also show up in this search… but there absolutely have been folks who have taken a leap from this level of play… which is why 2p fg% is so important… whereas if you're living behind the 3p line your upside is sort of limited as we have with quickley….

    Luol Deng is interesting though as a comp…. as some may remember he was the posterboy of the long 2/midrange era…. and the box score metrics and shotmix do look eerily similar at the same ages… is RJ the answer to the question of what happens if Luol Deng took more 3s? so far i think that's what it looks like…

  23. Oh, and Vecenie made suggestions for our second-rounders: Rokas Jokubaitis from Europe and Kessler Edwards from Pepperdine. Vorkunov pushes back on Kispert going so high, but Vecenie says right now there’s a clear top 5 in the draft and then everything from 6-20(*) is kind of a mess, and teams are valuing elite floor spacing more and more.

    (*) Of course our two picks are most likely going to fall in this area. Of course they are.

  24. Corey Kispert is overrated based solely on his 3p shooting… the question you have to ask is … what makes this guy better than knox? and if you’re not finding an answer right away then you should stay far away…

    cooper is okish but i didn’t really like how he did vs baylor so i’m less sold on him than i was a week ago… not as terrible as the kispert pick though….

  25. Where would we put Evan Mobley on this team anyway? Who even wants a top pick when you have this much talent.

  26. Meanwhile, for shits and giggles, Vorkunov and Sam Vecenie did a piece about who the Knicks might draft if the draft were held today with the picks we’d have if the season were to end now. Vecenie suggested Corey Kispert from Gonzaga with the Mavs pick, just to add shooting to a team that desperately needs it, and Sharife Cooper from Auburn with our own pick as a point guard flyer.

    Vork and Vecenie covered these guys pretty well in the piece and I mostly concur with their analysis. However, as much as I’m fairly certain Kispert will have a long NBA career I’d be hesitant to take him at #9. There’s a good chance at least one of Bouknight/Moody/Wagner/Springer will be available there, and while no one in the draft has Kispert’s shooting chops, they all profile as decent-to-good shooters as well. I think I’d take any of them over Kispert right now because I think they all have higher ceilings, but I need to do more homework on Kispert before feeling terribly strongly about that.

    Cooper is one of my favorite players to watch and if he could actually be had with a non-lottery pick I think the upside is way too high to pass on him.

  27. Where would we put Evan Mobley on this team anyway? Who even wants a top pick when you have this much talent.

    the question is … where do you put everyone else when you pick mobley…

    randle and mitch shouldn’t stop you from taking someone of mobley’s stature…

  28. Yeah, that was a joke DJPhan. I like Mobley a lot. He looks strange out there I think. Not a normal build for a star prospect. But I am prepared to take the chance.

  29. I must have missed a few threads somewhere, but I have a question: who is The Plaugue? Is it Payton? If so, how did he arrive at this nickname? Is it a reference to Camus?

  30. Alan: That’s interesting. What would you do if you were Leon Rose and the Mavs offered to drop the protection on that pick? On the one hand, that pick could be more valuable, and is also a guaranteed first-rounder in this scenario (if the Mavs get a top 10 pick in 2023, all we get is a second-rounder). On the other, doing this makes it easier for them to trade for somebody like Beal, which will make them stronger and potentially make both the 2021 and 2023 picks lower.

    I wouldn’t drop the protection if they continue to be this bad close to the trade deadline. That pick next year is looking pretty valuable, so I wouldn’t want to make it easy for them to improve their team right now, even if it means a potential missed opportunity for the 2023 pick. I am also pleased to watch them try to build around KP’s albatross and deadlocked from picks.

  31. It’s funny that you could see a situation in which Dallas has to give us an asset in order for them to drop the protection. I’d probably do it for Brunson?

  32. It’s funny that you could see a situation in which Dallas has to give us an asset in order for them to drop the protection. I’d probably do it for Brunson?

    imagine the 22k post asset liability argument thread if they returned kp to de-protect the pick

  33. ptmilo:
    It’s funny that you could see a situation in which Dallas has to give us an asset in order for them to drop the protection. I’d probably do it for Brunson?

    imagine the 22k post asset liability argument thread if they returned kp to de-protect the pick

    Do we officially lose the KP trade if we get him back for free?

  34. Donnie Walsh:
    I must have missed a few threads somewhere, but I have a question: who is The Plaugue? Is it Payton? If so, how did he arrive at this nickname? Is it a reference to Camus?

    Yes, I christened Payton “The Plague” and refer to him that way.
    The reference is the “Black Death” of the middle of the XIV century that killed one third of the population in Europe and depress the economy for years just as Payton depress our offense.
    (The Black Death had some “positive” effects in the medium to long run, and drove to the start of the Renaissance, I don’t know if Payton will ever have them but let’s hope next year’ll be our Renaissance…)

  35. Apropos of nothing but Ed Davis had quite a line for the Wolves last night against Cleveland. He got the start with Naz and KAT out with injury. Played 22:35 before fouling out and recorded no points and 5 boards. He also had 3 steals and 3 blocks.

    He finished +16. Pretty nice return on those second round picks but he is not Taj Gibson.

  36. Unless Dallas give us something really meaningful I don’t see why we must help them…

    With the rolling of the (protected) pick to 2024 and 2025 let’s keep them hostages a little bit longer,
    than we’ll see…

  37. Man it just feels good to know we have a nice young core and more young players coming our way.

    RJ, Mitch, Toppin and Randle. All young (or at least youngish in Randle’s case) and all contributing to wins and showing their potential. Toppin I also have hope for even though he hasn’t shown us much yet but he might also be the guy we end up sacrificing for someone else.

    Add to these 4 two more first round picks, hopefully at least one a top ten pick, and we really are starting to brew something nice here.

    RJ has looked really really good these last 10 games or so. And Quickley. GD we finally got that steal of the draft that everyone else is thinking “how did we miss this guy.”

    I just hope we remain patient. No need to pull the trigger for Beal or Lavine. Any success we have this year is gravy as long as the youngsters and Randle keep growing.

  38. Yeah, that was a joke DJPhan. I like Mobley a lot. He looks strange out there I think. Not a normal build for a star prospect. But I am prepared to take the chance.

    yea i wasn’t sure but i also thought there’s probably some folks who are committed to the randle/mitch pairing and that mobley isn’t good enough to replace either… that’s not true!

    and he does have high hips and incredibly skinny but that’s something that’s usually a knock on a lot of folks and it never ends up materializing… like kg… bosh .. anthony davis… it’s really only been true of shawn bradley and to a certain extent kp but they both play soft as well as being skinny…

    mobley is skinny but he def isn’t soft…

  39. Alan: That’s interesting. What would you do if you were Leon Rose and the Mavs offered to drop the protection on that pick? On the one hand, that pick could be more valuable, and is also a guaranteed first-rounder in this scenario (if the Mavs get a top 10 pick in 2023, all we get is a second-rounder). On the other, doing this makes it easier for them to trade for somebody like Beal, which will make them stronger and potentially make both the 2021 and 2023 picks lower.

    I wouldn’t help them. We have a real chance to get two lottery picks this year. I’d like to keep it that way.

    At the end of this season, I would consider it.

  40. Max: I’ll be very happy if we get a second for Plague (who has a no trade clause).

    Elf Payton has a NTC??

  41. Hubert: Elf Payton has a NTC??

    Yes, because he was a free agent that resign with his former team on a one year deal.
    Looks like the rules give him an automatic no trade clause.

  42. Mike Honcho: Hubert: Elf Payton has a NTC??

    I think it’s mandatory for the type of contract he signed.

    Mike Honcho

    Guess that kinda fucks up the whole plague metaphor thing seeing as we are unable to pass it on to anyone else.

  43. Count de Pennies: Guess that kinda fucks up the whole plague metaphor thing seeing as we are unable to pass it on to anyone else.

    Count de Pennies strikes again haha. Well played.

  44. Ooh, that’s a good one.

    Unreason, belated props to your daughter. Tell her to leave some ambition for the rest of us. [queues up another dab, impulsively checks TikTok for fresh memes, doubles down on Dogecoin frantically]

    I missed much of the game but it looks like Quickley is getting some buzz. My Blazer-fan buddy texted me about him last night. ESPN talking about him or something?

    Watched his highlights from last night. Do we think he projects as a true PG, or more a Beal/Oladipo/McCollum type who will penetrate and score but not really ever learn how to consistently hit open shooters on the kickout? (None of those guys have ever cracked 30 AST%)

  45. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Ooh, that’s a good one.

    Unreason, belated props to your daughter. Tell her to leave some ambition for the rest of us. [queues up another dab, impulsively checks TikTok for fresh memes, doubles down on Dogecoin frantically]

    I missed much of the game but it looks like Quickley is getting some buzz. My Blazer-fan buddy texted me about him last night. ESPN talking about him or something?

    Watched his highlights from last night. Do we think he projects as a true PG, or more a Beal/Oladipo/McCollum type who will penetrate and score but not really ever learn how to consistently hit open shooters on the kickout? (None of those guys have ever cracked 30 AST%)

    My opinion is that he probably ends up as a pass-friendly combo guard but not a true point guard in the traditional sense.

  46. Watched his highlights from last night. Do we think he projects as a true PG, or more a Beal/Oladipo/McCollum type who will penetrate and score but not really ever learn how to consistently hit open shooters on the kickout? (None of those guys have ever cracked 30 AST%)

    Jowles, McCollum looks closest of those guys in terms of style, though obviously Quickley’s not in his league just yet. They’re even both listed at 6’3″, 190. It’s hard for me to tell just how good Quickley’s potential PG skills are, just because we’ve been so starved for competency at that position for [checks notes] nearly all of this century. And other than a couple of years of Marbury, the last time the Knicks had a genuinely good orchestrator of offense for more than short bursts was [checks notes again, sobs] Mark Jackson?

  47. Mike Honcho: My opinion is that he probably ends up as a pass-friendly combo guard but not a true point guard in the traditional sense.

    There’s so much variance in PGs. Is Kyrie a “true PG in the traditional sense?” Kemba? Dame?

    I think his future is somewhere between a “combo guard” e.g McCollum/Lou Williams and a “scoring PG” e.g. Kyrie and Kemba (not implying he’ll be on the level of any of those guys, just a relatively low ast% high-usage scorer at the 1. He’s not really a 2…that would hurt him on the defensive end. In the end it will largely depend on his teammates….he will need to adapt to the players on the floor with him.

  48. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do we think he projects as a true PG, or more a Beal/Oladipo/McCollum type who will penetrate and score but not really ever learn how to consistently hit open shooters on the kickout? (None of those guys have ever cracked 30 AST%)

    I think he’s flashed pretty good PG skills and his relatively low passing #s are more a function of his role in this offense where the ball is in Randle’s hands so much (and RJ to a slightly lesser extent). Nobody would ever accuse Elfrid of being a shoot-first PG but his passing #s are also way, way down this year (21.5 AST%, career 34%). IQ is definitely a little bit of a gunner but when he penetrates he keeps his head up and we’ve seen him hit nice passes to both the roll man and shooters on occasion. The fact that the floater is his bread and butter on penetration may reduce his passing #s a bit as instead of getting all the way inside and drawing the D all the way in (opening up shooters) he shoots the ball much earlier, and I don’t know if he will ever be a “pure” PG but I think his passing is fine if the rest of the package works out the way we hope.

  49. I don’t know, I’m not ready to say IQ’s not going to be a damn fine point guard. There are a couple of reasons:

    He’s only played 20 games so far against the greatest athletes on the planet. He’s done okay so far. (Remember, RJ pretty much sucked his entire first year!)

    He’s nearly three years out from his last point guard role, so he’s probably a bit rusty (and of course that was in high school, so he has had no serious training at the point — an incredibly complex position — until very recently).

    I said this earlier, but he seems to have near-genius-level ‘understanding’ of what’s happening around him, although right now that seems to extend out to only about a ten-foot radius. But within that radius he routinely makes experienced, grown men look foolish. I would expect that radius to expand to full court with time. Maybe not this year, but in a year or so?

    Might not happen, but again, back to point one — 20 games so far, in Year One.

  50. The Honorable Cock Jowles:

    Do we think he projects as a true PG, or more a Beal/Oladipo/McCollum type who will penetrate and score but not really ever learn how to consistently hit open shooters on the kickout? (None of those guys have ever cracked 30 AST%)

    He showed signs he could do a bit of both, I don’t think he’ll ever be a “true PG” (a “pass first PG”),
    but our lineups construction frequently force him to the scorer side (who are the shooters for the kick out?).

    I think he could play more off the ball with Randle and RJ and be more a “passing PG” with better shooters around.

    Does that mean I want him starting? Yes I do, my fault…

  51. I’m fine with Quickley coming off the bench for now, since it allows him to sharpen his PG skills more than if he was primarily in lineups with two ball-dominant players in Randle and RJ. (This reportedly is one of the reasons the Knicks aren’t starting him, since they are looking at the long game of making him a point guard.) The problem isn’t IQ as sixth man, but Payton being in the rotation at all. Just start Rivers or Burks as nominal 1s, since Randle is basically playing point guard, anyway. Heck, I’d start Frank at the 1 over Elf at this point.

  52. I don’t think Quickley will ever be a true PG. I think some of his instincts are incompatible with being a true PG. As has been mentioned, his floater is one part of his game where I’d rather he go to the basket and kick out.

    Another conflict between IQ’s game and true PGs are the angles he takes. If you’re trying to draw a foul, you need to be right up on the defender, whereas a true PG will try and get some separation to survey the court and find room for the pass.

    Either way, I’m not sure true PGs matter as much since most modern superstars take on a large share of creation duties

  53. ***McCollum looks closest of those guys in terms of style, though obviously Quickley’s not in his league just yet.***

    Since McCollum has been invoked, and people have been down on him on this site because of his efficiency, VORP, BPM, blah blah blah, I just want to make sure that you guys have noticed that he is no longer your fathers CJ McCollum. Not only in his TS% sitting at .620 this season, but the guy has a league leading 4.4 TO% with a 28.5 usage and an assist rate that has doubled over the past two years. He led the league in minutes played last year too, and in 4 of the last five years he’s played in every single game. If Quickley is even 80% of the player that McCollum has become, he’s a real keeper

  54. Alan:
    I’m fine with Quickley coming off the bench for now, since it allows him to sharpen his PG skills more than if he was primarily in lineups with two ball-dominant players in Randle and RJ. (This reportedly is one of the reasons the Knicks aren’t starting him, since they are looking at the long game of making him a point guard.) The problem isn’t IQ as sixth man, but Payton being in the rotation at all. Just start Rivers or Burks as nominal 1s, since Randle is basically playing point guard, anyway. Heck, I’d start Frank at the 1 over Elf at this point.

    I agree on this. IQ is getting good PT, so all’s good. I really don’t like Rivers…he seems to me more like a third string/vet minimum guy you have on the bench to use if a team has injuries. Frank just can’t stay healthy, but like you I’d just as soon start him at the one at this point. He can spot up behind the three line and stay out of the way of RJB and Randle.

  55. Andrew Yang is over here proposing that the Knicks and Mets should change their team colors, since the orange and blue comes from the Dutch flag. (Though IIRC, the Mets colors are an amalgam of the Dodgers and Giants colors?)

  56. i’m blacked out from the clippers and lakers games…

    it’s funny the expectations that are starting to come along when we face another squad that has a similar chance at winning a ballgame as ourselves…

    the bulls are favored by 4, but hopefully we come out on top tonight…

  57. the bulls are favored by 4, but hopefully we come out on top tonight…

    Oh, and we can scout Potential Future Knick Zach LaVine!

  58. he will need to adapt to the players on the floor with him

    Which is precisely why I’m irked that he doesn’t play more with RJ. We need to see how those two work together.

  59. I expect us to win both of these Chicago games. Thibs is going to want these bad and I think the players will respond to that.

    Our next stretch of games includes a lot of winnable ones.

  60. I expect us to win both of these Chicago games. Thibs is going to want these bad and I think the players will respond to that.

    They’re definitely at least splitting the two Chicago games, but yeah, I expect them to win both, as well. Thibs will do whatever it takes to get those games.

  61. Brian Cronin:
    I just remembered that there was another Unsung History sort of involving Tony Campbell, how the Knicks were about to trade him for Isiah Thomas when Thomas nixed the deal (right before he suffered his career-ending injury).

    http://knickerblogger.net/unsung-knick-history-that-time-isiah-thomas-nearly-joined-the-knicks-as-a-player/

    Always a good reminder of the glorious Knicks career of Tim McCormick, or as my best friend Mike referred to him, “a draft pick in human form.” (IIRC, if we kept him on the roster, we would get a 1st rounder as part of the trade to acquire him.)

  62. Who else would “The Plague” be other than Payton.

    /cue Hubie Brown voice …

    I mean, come on.

  63. OK, I’ll admit it — IQ saying to Lou Will, “You’re one of my favorite players” and Lou acknowledging and reaching out his hand to slap shake gave me chills.

  64. Loving that NBA Power Rankings has the Knicks 19th right now, ahead of Dallas, Toronto, Miami, and the Pels.

    I don’t write em, I just report em.

  65. wow, 2015 seems like such a long time ago…heck, 2019 seems like a lifetime ago…

    spoke to a couple of close friends the last week and a part of the conversation ran towards retirement and our plans to prepare and what retirement might be like…

    always seems like life moves sooooo fast to me…for whatever reason my personality tends to fixate and immerse itself in the day and the moment…seems like i’m simply moving from event to event to event all the time…being anxious a lot doesn’t really help with perceiving time…

    it’s been a while now but back in the late 90’s i had a pretty serious situation with myxedema – one of the “positives” though of the experience – life seemed to really slow down for a few years…

    there’s this drug in the movie Dredd called Slo-Mo “which reduces the user’s perception of time to 1% of normal”…

    i could see the appeal in that…

  66. Brian Cronin: Which is precisely why I’m irked that he doesn’t play more with RJ. We need to see how those two work together.

    IQ has played 169 of his 324 minutes with RJ on the court according to BRef and that share is probably only going to go up as IQ gets more of his minutes with the closing group. That seems totally fine to me. I feel like we were all so primed to be annoyed by Thibs usage of the young guys that people aren’t giving him enough credit for doing a really good job with IQ. I never would’ve thought he’d be so quick to acknowledge with his lineups that he’s the team’s best PG (closing with him regularly now) even if he’s sticking with Elf as the starter for now.

  67. Here are the AST%/T0% ratios for the top 5 rookie leaders in AST% this season…

    LaMelo: 37.4/17.5
    Hali: 25.8/15.3
    Hayes: 23.1/26.2
    IQ: 22.7/8.7
    Anthony: 21.1/13.7

    The idea that he can’t be a “true” PG isn’t verified by the advanced stats. It maybe that he’s being protected by a conservative offensive coach who is protecting him by having other ball-handlers like Randle/RJ/Rivers/Burks take the pressure off him playing on the floor with him. But those percentages are legit.

  68. orlando has just been crushed by injuries. i would not be shocked to see us go after fournier, but there will probably be a bit of a market for him.

  69. Going into this season, a popular phrase here was that this team has precisely two players worth giving a damn about. Both those players (Mitch and RJ) are improving in a satisfying way. And two new guys (Randle and Quickley) have joined them. Now we’re looking at the real possibility of two top 10 picks this summer (and I am pretty confident Dallas is not putting it together this year; something seems rotten there).

    Things would be so much better if we had Halliburton and Tillman in the fold, too, but damn… things are looking up. It doesn’t suck tremendously to be a Knicks fan right now.

  70. do we care about hollingers rankings or no?…i saw quickly was the top rookie in terms of PER…i care 1) because im a knicks fan and 2) i nabbed him at 25/1 odds for ROY… just missed him at 50/1…

  71. I am pretty confident Dallas is not putting it together this year; something seems rotten there

    someone mentioned it earlier, but time could be coming to a close for carlisle in dallas…

  72. “Terrible,” Doncic said after Friday’s loss. “We gotta do something, because this is not looking good and we gotta step up and just talk to each other and play well better than this. It’s mostly effort. I would say right now it’s looking like we don’t care, honestly, if we win games or not.”

    I guess now he knows how it’s like to play with a diva.

  73. KJG:
    Also, is there a reason many of my comments need to be approved?

    Because you’re a menace to KB and Brian Cronin is onto you!

    BAN!

  74. Things would be so much better if we had Halliburton and Tillman in the fold, too, but damn… things are looking up. It doesn’t suck tremendously to be a Knicks fan right now.

    Yeah, it’s looking like a nice rebuild now. Very pleased with it.

  75. DRed: The problem is Dallas can’t trade a first-round pick until 2027 unless the top-10 protections are removed from the 2023 first being sent to New York.

    The KP trade is looking like the Biden victory more and more each day, slowly the Knicks came from total losers to probable winners, and if we can extract an asset to remove the protections, we’ll get to clear winners.
    If then DAL goes to have a bad 2022-23 season and the pick is in the Top10, then we’ll be absolute winners of the trade.

  76. About LaVine, at CBS Sports they came up with this:

    The Knicks do have significant draft equity, five first-rounders over the next three years, and could include Immanuel Quickley and Kevin Knox as the young prospects. Throw in, say, Frank Ntilikina and Elfrid Payton as expiring contracts, and a reasonable deal is there to be made.

    Quickley (!?), Knox, Frank, AND A PICK? For LaVine?? Are they insane?

  77. cybersoze:
    About LaVine, at CBS Sports they came up with this:

    Quickley (!?), Knox, Frank, AND A PICK? For LaVine?? Are they insane?

    This proposal offends my basic sense of decency and morality. What else does he want Rose to give to the Bulls FO? The fillings from his teeth?

  78. It’s like these writers still the Knicks are dumb. Why the F would we include Quickley in any deal that wasn’t for a legit superstar? Right now he’s practically untraceable the hype is so big on him.

    The best thing about the Dallas situation is we have them completely over the barrel. We can let them continue to flounder this season, assure the lottery pick this next draft, then offer to unprotect the 2023 pick for an asset. They’ll still be wanting to try and upgrade this off-season and next season.

  79. Ntilakilla: This proposal offends my basic sense of decency and morality. What else does he want Rose to give to the Bulls FO? The fillings from his teeth?

    LOL! That or the journalist applied to a job on the Bulls front-office and this “service” was mandatory to be hired.

  80. cybersoze: LOL! That or the journalist applied to a job on the Bulls front-office and this “service” was mandatory to be hired.

    Isn’t CBS Sports the same site which gave the Quickley pick a D+ grade? Seriously, they can fuck off.

  81. LaVine is shooting out of his mind, and even then, his production is still lacking for a superstar role. Hard pass, I’d rather not have to bet on him continuing to shoot a .650 ts% so we can thread water forever at the bottom of the east.

  82. Of the rookies who have played at least 250 minutes, only four have a positive BPM – LaMelo (2.8), Quickley (2.1), Haliburton (1.0), Vassell (0.8)

    What about that? :)

  83. KJG – no one really understands how moderation works.

    I wouldn’t trade IQ for Quickley. What no part of him.

    Although tbf there has never been a player with his profile who I have wanted.

  84. Alan:
    Andrew Yang is over here proposing that the Knicks and Mets should change their team colors, since the orange and blue comes from the Dutch flag. (Though IIRC, the Mets colors are an amalgam of the Dodgers and Giants colors?)

    Yes, the Mets’ colors were a Dodgers/Giants combo, while the Knicks colors reflect the NYC flag (which I suppose could be said of the Mets as well).

  85. I’m guessing that Quickley is thought of as untouchable for the moment. Four years of his production on a tiny rookie-scale deal? That’s freaking GOLD!

  86. Weird NBA factoid of the day in a season filled with them.

    The Rockets are 6-3 since the James Harden trade — despite John Wall, Christian Wood and Victor Oladipo all missing games — and have the NBA’s second-best defensive rating (102.8) during that span.

  87. The Infamous Cdiggy: Yes, the Mets’ colors were a Dodgers/Giants combo, while the Knicks colors reflect the NYC flag (which I suppose could be said of the Mets as well).

    I will also go on record as saying I was never a fan of the current softish powder-blueish hue we have going on. It works a lot better with yellow (i.e. Warriors) than orange. I’d much rather a touch darker, such as Hex #0041b0 or something.

  88. Weird NBA factoid of the day in a season filled with them.

    The Rockets are 6-3 since the James Harden trade — despite John Wall, Christian Wood and Victor Oladipo all missing games — and have the NBA’s second-best defensive rating (102.8) during that span.

    i don’t know raven, we’ve all mentioned it a bunch – but, this season is weird as far as game to game match ups…short off-season, team injury and virus issues, the scheduling is a little different…

    you hear it a lot that active athletes are creatures of routine, and, their normal routines are significantly impacted this season…

    any given sunday in football is now any given game in basketball…

  89. Also, Chris Wood is a superstar, I’m convinced. I mean, I was convinced last season pretty much, but he’s has not lost a single beat going from a terrible team, to the crazy Harden trade situation and after. If anyone still blindly believe the collective ability of front offices to properly evaluate talent, this has got to shake it up. I watched the game against the Pelicans and he looked like the best player on the court.

  90. I continue to like LaVine more than some here, but I wouldn’t even consider trading for him at any realistic price. Our place on the win curve is such that any additions to the roster need to be just that, additions. We can’t afford to add LaVine at the expense of existing talent and/or assets, whether that’s Quickley or a future first.

    I do think he could be an interesting target in free agency in 2022 if we nail the 2021 draft, and I also think that’s around the time the inevitable KAT grumblings will start…

  91. Also, Chris Wood is a superstar, I’m convinced. I mean, I was convinced last season pretty much, but he’s has not lost a single beat going from a terrible team, to the crazy Harden trade situation and after. If anyone still blindly believe the collective ability of front offices to properly evaluate talent, this has got to shake it up. I watched the game against the Pelicans and he looked like the best player on the court.

    I was a big Wood believer, but I tend towards geo’s take on the Rockets overall, which is that it is just this season’s weirdness. I doubt the Rockets keep this up long term. That doesn’t mean that Wood isn’t great, though, as I think that he definitely is.

  92. for whatever reason… teams have been actively avoiding wood… and i don’t think anyone has figured out why… or it hasn’t been made known…

    my best guess is that folks think he’s lazy? or was going to pull a larry sanders ? i have no idea but he was really good in college.. was good when given limited opportunities… and showed out when given an extended look…

    weird…

  93. I like the Rockets because they abandoned that D’Antoni ultra-small BS and can now match up with anyone. If/when they are healthy, Wall is very good and Boogie is a nice piece on the minimum. They have a solid rotation.

  94. Wood reminds me of Whiteside, who no one wanted and was all of a sudden a monster. I was worried about the small sample size of excellent play with him, but the film was eye-opening. I’m surprised that he didn’t get a better deal, but seems like a great landing spot for him.

  95. djphan:
    for whatever reason… teams have been actively avoiding wood… and i don’t think anyone has figured out why… or it hasn’t been made known…

    my best guess is that folks think he’s lazy? or was going to pull a larry sanders ? i have no idea but he was really good in college.. was good when given limited opportunities… and showed out when given an extended look…

    weird…

    There are reasons, I wrote about it a couple of weeks ago, I think it was in or after the Nets game,
    if you’ll find it you’ll get some answers ;-)

  96. yea i read that article too but we don’t know what those non basketball issues were…. like lack of work ethic? there’s like a million dudes that have been selected in the lottery with a lack of work ethic… how’d this guy go undrafted?

  97. Yes, the Mets’ colors were a Dodgers/Giants combo, while the Knicks colors reflect the NYC flag (which I suppose could be said of the Mets as well).

    This sort of thing is why I don’t trust Yang’s strong polling numbers.

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