NY Post: Derrick Rose’s promising Knicks debut spoiled in final seconds

From Marc Berman:

The trade looked good. But not good enough.

It didn’t result in a victory, but Derrick Rose juiced the Knicks’ second unit in his debut Tuesday, playing alongside rookie guard Immanuel Quickley in the backcourt.

Coach Tom Thibodeau, though, chose not to close with Rose and the Knicks suffered a heartbreaking 98-96 defeat at Miami’s AmericanAirlines Arena.

Rose’s debut in his second Knicks’ stint was a lively success as he rattled home 14 points with three assists in 20 minutes. Rose also registered a block and a steal after not having so much as a shootaround practice with his new club. He shot 5 of 9 — 2 of 3 from 3-point range.

Trailing 98-96, the Knicks had one last gasp but RJ Barrett couldn’t convert a driving layup in the final seconds, though he appeared to have a step on defender extraordinaire Jimmy Butler.

“I thought I had a really good look — a layup going to my strong hand,’’ Barrett said. “I just got to finish those.’’

The Knicks still have to get the chemistry right in wake of the Rose trade with the Pistons. They led by 82-76 after three quarters but couldn’t hold off the Heat.

It wasn’t Rose’s fault, though he got a little sloppy early in the fourth quarter, with a turnover and getting an ill-advised shot blocked. That prompted Thibodeau to use starting point guard Elfrid Payton to close, though Quickley entered in the final minute.

What’s funny is A. how absurd of a first line that is and B. how much it really does match how Knick fans watch these games react, as well, right? Had the Knicks won 99-98, with pretty much the exact game script except one more made three for the Knicks, it would be night and day, reaction-wise, to a 98-96 loss. And that’s perfectly understandable, of course, it’s just pretty funny, as well.

Anyhow, Derrick Rose (who now a very…interesting current look) made a strong return to the Knicks, playing a great first half, but then was a bit out of control in the fourth quarter, leading to Thibs having Elfrid Payton come back in. The fourth quarter had a lot of ugly basketball. I love these particular two shots from the play-by-play…

Jimmy Butler misses driving floating jump shot
Julius Randle misses 20-foot step back jumpshot

Or this sequence (to be fair, the Randle call was almost certainly off of Adebayo and not Randle, but still):

4:42 Elfrid Payton bad pass (Bam Adebayo steals)
4:32 Jimmy Butler bad pass (Mitchell Robinson steals)
4:27 Julius Randle out of bounds lost ball turnover

But in general, I think this was just a well-coached game where both teams gave their all. I actually think Miami needs to pick up one more guy on offense as they looked lost for good chunks of the game, but their defensive intensity never wavered. They’re an excellent defensive team.

Immanuel Quickley had a terrible shooting night, but Thibs still had him back in the game to close things out and he was rewarded by Quickley putting down a big floater to cut the lead to one with 40 or so seconds left.

The final shot of the game was a great move by RJ, but just good enough defense by Butler to make RJ alter the shot just so much that it did not go in.

I liked the minute distribution tonight, except I’d probably play RJ a little bit more and I think Toppin could get more than 11 minutes on a night when Randle played 37 minutes and was not particularly good. I wonder if perhaps Thibs being given his present of Derrick Rose is now told, “Okay, you have your ten guys now, could you please spread the minutes around more.”

In any event, this loss will be long forgotten by the end of Friday night, when the Knicks will likely have kicked the Wizards’ stinky butts. So it’s all good.

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127 thoughts to “NY Post: Derrick Rose’s promising Knicks debut spoiled in final seconds”

  1. “Had the Knicks won 99-98, with pretty much the exact game script except one more made three for the Knicks, it would be night and day, reaction-wise, to a 98-96 loss.”

    Exactly right.

    It was a well fought game, this team seems to always be into games until the end.
    After 26 games we could say that the defense is real, the offense is a work in progress.

    Mitch and Noel are really good on D, they touch and deflect many passes, alter and block a lot of shots, but on offense their hands are terrible, they waste too many good assists…

    I’d like to watch Obi just a little bit more but as a first game with the new rotation I’m okay with the playing time.

    … and very surprised by Rose behaviour and interactions with his teammates, way better than I recall from the first stint. He hasn’t lost his jump pass habits though :-)

    Oh, I’m still pissed with the refs…

  2. It feels like Payton hasn’t made a pass to Robinson ever. Is that just me?
    Also, Obi seemed to be cutting A LOT the first couple of games and much less now.

    Both of these things seem to be a coaching decision that I don’t like.
    The one play between Rose and Obi has my hopes up that there might be some chemistry. But maybe that was just Rose being nice in his first game.

    A lot of vague statements in this post.

  3. It looked to me like overall impact of Rose-IQ is a bit more point-guardy than the two combo-guard lineup of Rivers-IQ. Quickley seemed to be pressing but his role was only partially shifted off the ball and he did play some without Rose. Thibs will likely experiment until he finds the right combination (for him, not us.)

  4. Only watched a little, because i fell asleep (here the game started at 12:30AM). So tried to “feel” the game by reading the game thread and this post, and what i have to say is that if the refs have to help the EC Champions get a W against us, with our 3 best players not having a good game (shooting), then that alone says it all. On to the next. :)

  5. If the season ended now, we’d have the best of both worlds, as we’d be in the play-in (like team-get-playoff-experience wants) and still very well positioned for the draft (like team tank wants) with 40.1% chance to get to Top4 (sum of 8th and 10th picks). What about that? We all happy at KB would be a day to remember! ;)

  6. Back in December most of us would have signed up for lots of competitive losses to good teams and a mix of win types in a 10-12 seed type of year, so long as those wins came on the backs of some of our young players and Randle.

    From ESPN:

    If Tuesday’s game was any indication, however, Quickley’s rotation spot is secure moving forward. And, for his part, Rose was effusive in his praise of the rookie. Since the trade, he has said on multiple occasions that he is excited to play alongside Quickley.

    “It shouldn’t be too hard [playing] with him,” Rose said. “We’re similar. He’s getting double-teamed in his rookie year. There ain’t too many rookies getting that type of attention. For him to see that kind of early, it’s just going to make his game better. The game is going to slow down more. And he listens. That’s the greatest thing about him: He listens. With that, you always got room for improvement.

    “He’s a dog. He’s a dog. I can’t explain it. You’ve got to be a player to understand it. [If] we’re in a fight, I know he’s fighting.”

  7. Z-man, that’s a great quote by Rose. And he’s right to, not many rookies get double teamed like Quickley was by Miami. If those two have chemistry, that’s a hell of a second unit for opposing guards to defend.

  8. Ditto to @Knick fan not in NJ. The league seems to be adapting to Quickley and the next 20 games should be interesting to see how he responds. It seems that DRose is invested in Quickley’s development, something I can’t imagine Payton being, and that should be positive to IQ’s development.

  9. It seems that DRose is invested in Quickley’s development, something I can’t imagine Payton being, and that should be positive to IQ’s development.

    We’ll see how much is lip service and how much Rose actually winds up helping Quickley. That said, one of the advantages of Rose over Payton is that he’s at a phase of his career where someone like Quickley is not a threat to him. Physically, Rose can only play so many minutes — some of the post-trade reports claim he was the one who asked the Pistons to bring him off the bench — and he knows he’s in the home stretch of his career, where Payton is a guy who has to make sure he keeps getting paid for many years to come. So our new horrible-shooting point guard is likely more willing to help IQ than the guy worried about being replaced by IQ.

  10. I read somewhere that DRose was on a 23 min/game time limit. I used “seems” as I agree with @Alan. Hard to say what DRose wants to do for his basketball legacy, but he seems genuinely appreciative of being reunited with Thibs and hopefully understands that by helping to promote IQ’s growth, he is helping Thibs and to the extent, he cares about it his own legacy . Would be interesting to find out why he is up there with Klay as one of the most respected players among his peers.

  11. It took about 5 minutes of watching Rose and you could already see that despite not playing in Detroit for awhile and not even being at the shootaround for NY he’s already the best PG on the team. lol I was shocked how quick he still is. He may not be able to leap like he could when he was young, but he’s still plenty fast getting up and down the court, beating defenders, and making plays. He’ll be perfect running the 2nd unit either with Quickley (who we know can play off the ball too) or if Quickley is eventually moved to the starting unit to play with Payton.

    Rose’s minutes should be limited but he should also probably be the closer instead of Payton unless his defense becomes an issue down the stretch against 1st units.

    It was a good game. A few of our key players had horrible shooting nights, but we hung in there with a much better Miami team that’s finally getting healthy and starting to lock down on D and play well on O.

  12. Mitch’s defense is really impactful this year and I can see that he is playing much smarter on that end. It almost looks at times like he is not really trying, but that is a function of him reading the game better and not needing to be so hyperactive to get to the proper spots. However, I get the feeling that he is floating on offense and the results are not there on that end this year. How does he only get two shot attempts in nearly 30 minutes? How much of this comes down to role and sharing the court with the starters vs. his energy and effort level? It’s been disappointing to see his lack of growth or even maintenance of previous performance on the offensive end.

  13. Bo Nateman:
    Ditto to @Knick fan not in NJ. The league seems to be adapting to Quickley and the next 20 games should be interesting to see how he responds. It seems that DRose is invested in Quickley’s development, something I can’t imagine Payton being, and that should be positive to IQ’s development.

    Rose will take some of the scoring pressure off him in the 2nd unit, but this is a GOOD thing for his development. When they start closing out on the 3 and limiting or taking away the floater, he’s going to realize he has to add new moves to his bag of tricks. This is what I’ve been waiting for from Robinson for 2 years, but he hasn’t shown anything yet. He’s getting better on defense, but he’s irrelevant on offense on many nights because he’s a one trick pony. It’s a great trick, but not so valuable once good teams game plan to limit or take it away.

  14. Looking at BR his usage is only down from 13.3% to 11.3% (another L for the eye test) but he definitely looks invisible out there at times.

  15. Eye test-wise, Mitch is also not finishing at the rim nearly as well as he seemed to be his first two years. I don’t know if it’s fatigue from playing more minutes — and playing a much more expansive and intense role as the anchor of the defense — or something else. But for as much as I scream for Payton and the other guards to get Mitch the ball in the PNR, he seems to be missing a lot of easy shots around the rim.

  16. I actually think Miami needs to pick up one more guy on offense as they looked lost for good chunks of the game, but their defensive intensity never wavered.

    I agree on Miami. I know they’ve basically gotten a free pass on their super slow start because they’ve been missing so much of their team, but across these two games (and acknowledging that they got the sweep) they didn’t look like a contender to me. I know they’re still missing Dragic but I think they really miss Crowder as well. Olynyk can shoot it but they’re not nearly as dynamic with him out there vs. a wing sized player. I also kind of think the league has caught on to how critical Robinson is for their offense and that if you just staple one of your guys to him and don’t help from there you take away a lot of what makes them tick. Bullock in particular did a really nice job on him last night. I feel like they’re a team we might see in a play-in game and while I can’t say I’d exactly like our odds…I don’t think we’d be drawing dead either.

  17. “It shouldn’t be too hard [playing] with him,” Rose said. “We’re similar. He’s getting double-teamed in his rookie year. There ain’t too many rookies getting that type of attention.

    First! Lol.

    It’s a really good sign that a team as sophisticated and tough as Miami has singled out IQ and RJ for very close attention this early in their careers. Have to now build around that. At least it’s now a start.

  18. I think Dragic would help a lot. And they could find another guy. Honestly, Rose for a first would make a lot of sense, amirite?

    With Mitch, it could be anything. Conditioning definitely might be an issue, with him just not having adjusted to his bigger role. It could be a little bad luck. A little bit of a bad whistle – he definitely got fouled twice last night on misses that weren’t called. People definitely are paying more attention to him than they were the first two years.

    I wonder also if the twenty pounds he put on in the offseason, while helping him body people underneath, has taken an inch or two off his vertical. Sometimes he seems almost surprised when he doesn’t get where he thinks he is going to get.

    I do think Payton looks for him. In general though he is open quite a bit and no one finds him. I do think Adebayo did a good job last night though.

  19. It was fairly obvious Miami was one player away from beating the very best teams last year even though they gave it an amazing try. It’s still obvious. Riley knows that. He’s got the team and organization to attract that player, but I’m sure he doesn’t want to gut ALL his promising young players to get him in Miami. He’s trying to contend now and still have a future to build around. So it’s going to be up to one of the young players to break out further or for him to pull a rabbit out of hat in one or a series of deals. I’m sure he knows the clock is ticking on Butler even though players remain productive longer these days than the in past. So if someone doesn’t break out, he’s going to make a move either this year or next year. He can’t just do it. He has to wait until it’s there. And then, unlike Ainge, have some balls to pull the trigger.

  20. Mitch is definitely converting fewer shots at the rim (so in his case fewer shots, period). The eye-test and the numbers are in agreement on that one. I didn’t know he put on weight and I think Owen might be on to something. There’s no doubt some of his struggles are entirely on him.

    Having said that, I still think he’s an important enough piece that they should be looking to get him going specifically. I’m not asking for anything other than trying to get him back to his 15 PTS/36 levels of last year, our offense sucks so I really don’t see what we have to lose. Throw the ball in his general direction around the basket more often. This is where it’s a bit of a bummer to have a coach ruthlessly pursuing every last win as that seems like the kind of thing Thibs is unlikely to do.

  21. I don’t think Mitch is playing that much worse overall.

    I also think his role on offense is a little more structured too. Last year and in his rookie year he was much more free to freelance on the offensive boards and was just in space more. This year he just always seem to have someone glued to him. I don’t know if thats because opponents are game planning for him or something to do with the offense and where he is when shots go up.

    He also has barely had a transition opportunity all season. I mean, I am sure he has, but i can’t think of many.

    I do expect Mitch to pick it up on the offensive end. And 65.5% from the field isn’t abysmal. His improved defense is most of what matters.

  22. FYI, Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga playing on ESPN 2 right now so I’ll need to watch the recording of my Property class later.

  23. Tyrese had another solid game. 15 points on 9 shots with one turnover. 2 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, in 33 minutes. And 2 in a game they lost by eight.

    Ooh, nice dunk from Kuminga.

  24. I think Rose looked OK- save for the incessant mind numbing jump passing. UGH! I hate that.

    I don’t know if Thibs was worried for Rose’s health or whatever, but he royally screwed up when he didn’t ride the hot hands that got us the 12 point lead in the 1st half. As soon as he brought in Elfrid and Randle- we lost control. I’ll give him the benefit of doubt since I don’t know how much that decision was related to keeping Rose relatively healthy. But me no likey. Leon has to play the disciplinarian here and move Elfrid so Thibs will be forced to enjoy his other toys- who happen to be playing better than Elfrid. This has to happen like yesterday! Elfrid isn’t a good enough PG to make up for the tightening of the offense when he’s in the game. Hell, Rose was even better than Payton on the other end of the floor last night! Normally I hate it when the FO interferes with the coach’s job, but this is where Leon must ABSOLUTELY find a way to peacefully and “covertly” remove the option that is Elfrid. And I use the term “option” very loosely lol. Move him NOW before you can’t even get a 2nd for him…this is maddening! A rotation of Quickley/ D Rose/ Rivers or Ntilikina is good enough right now and certainly better than any PG rotation that includes Elfrid. Elfrid might be fine elsewhere, but he’s just not a good fit for this roster- especially with D Rose and Quickley in tow.

  25. thenoblefacehumper:
    FYI, Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga playing on ESPN 2 right now so I’ll need to watch the recording of my Property class later.

    No interest in land is good unless it must vest, if at all, not later than twenty-one years after some life in being at the creation of the interest.

  26. Alan: Eye test-wise, Mitch is also not finishing at the rim nearly as well as he seemed to be his first two years. I don’t know if it’s fatigue from playing more minutes — and playing a much more expansive and intense role as the anchor of the defense — or something else. But for as much as I scream for Payton and the other guards to get Mitch the ball in the PNR, he seems to be missing a lot of easy shots around the rim.

    I posted this yesterday, so it’s not just the eyetest:

    Yeah, I have no idea what’s going on with Mitch. He hasn’t been exactly bad, he’s still shooting 69%, but he’s missed 8 dunks and is 25/64 on layups.

  27. I usually refrain from criticizing referees since I am one myself, but that missed call on Olynyk last night was egregious and probably cost us the game (I know Mitch could have missed a FT of course) There are some calls where you can understand how a referee might not have seen it or it could go either way (block or charge) but Olynyk almost tackled Mitch right in front of the baseline official.

    And overall it really was a terribly officiated game, who were those refs anyway? Interns?

  28. With regards to the recent discussion about The Expanse…

    In defense of Steven Strait, he’s playing a brooding, humorless Byronic hero sort of character. I have no idea if that character is that way in the books, as I’ve not read them. I think he’s okay given the role, and I’d imagine that the ladies are just fine with his acting. I know my wife is.
    :-)

    I generally like the show, though some of the sudden plot jumps are a bit annoying. And this past season, I found the whole subplot with the parents manipulating and competing for their son (I’m trying to be a bit vague and avoid spoilers here) tedious and overly long.

  29. Missed the Expanse discussion. Was that a while ago?

    I really like the show but I feel like have to marshal some real mental resources to watch an episode. Still in season 4.

    Also, apropos of nothing, but I found this song the other day which I absolutely love. Its called Grounds by a post-punk outfit called Idles. It’s a good song but I think part of the reason I like it so much is because it sounds like something that would be a total hit in The Belt. Major Belter vibe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkUt9VnaR0

  30. There’s a big difference between brooding/humorless and wooden and Steven Strait’s performance is indistinguishable from the desk my computer is sitting on.

  31. In defense of Steven Strait, he’s playing a brooding, humorless Byronic hero sort of character. I have no idea if that character is that way in the books, as I’ve not read them. I think he’s okay given the role, and I’d imagine that the ladies are just fine with his acting. I know my wife is.

    I’ve seen Strait be equally wooden in several other shows, so I don’t think you can ascribe it to the nature of the role. There are also ways to be charismatic while playing a relative stiff, and he is… not.

  32. Based on the names of characters and episodes in the Expanse, Strait is supposed to play a Don Quixote type character (the ship is Rocinante & episode 1 is named Dulcinea). I’m guessing in the book (never read it) he’s played straight rather than goofy like the Don himself, but still supposed to come off as a more self-righteous hero who believes he’s always in the right.

    In the show Strait’s character is unassuming and the irony of him always being wrong is lost in the vacuum of his performance.

  33. There’s a big difference between brooding/humorless and wooden and Steven Strait’s performance is indistinguishable from the desk my computer is sitting on.

    That’s funny. I’m up to episode six or so of the first season. I’m enjoying the visuals and storyline a great deal.

    Truth to be told, I recently watched season 1 of The Purge, so, I’m capable of looking past poor acting. It seemed more than anything that Strait was doing his best to imitate Timothy Olyphant and his charisma in front of the camera. It doesn’t appear though as he is being too successful at that.

    I am enjoying Wes Chatham and his performance so far.

  34. I am enjoying Wes Chatham and his performance so far.

    Oh, Chatham is a lot of fun. Amos isn’t one of the show’s deeper characters, but Chatham is interesting to watch in a way a lot of his co-stars aren’t.

  35. Hey peoples… if I may engage in a little self-promotion for a second:

    Netflix just began promoting the new Last Chance U season to premiere March 10th. They’re switching from football to basketball, and guess who’s job/college is gonna be featured??!!! The trailer is here.

    (oh, and I may get some screen time too!)

    P.S. I run our college athletics website ;)

  36. The Infamous Cdiggy:
    Hey peoples… if I may engage in a little self-promotion for a second:

    Netflix just began promoting the new Last Chance U season to premiere March 10th. They’re switching from football to basketball, and guess who’s job/college is gonna be featured??!!! The trailer is here.

    (oh, and I may get some screen time too!)

    P.S. I run our college athletics website ;)

    Excellent. I can say, I knew you before you blew up. ( IIRC, this is how Gandolfini and Cranston got their breaks….amirite?

  37. Alan:
    Eye test-wise, Mitch is also not finishing at the rim nearly as well as he seemed to be his first two years. I don’t know if it’s fatigue from playing more minutes — and playing a much more expansive and intense role as the anchor of the defense — or something else. But for as much as I scream for Payton and the other guards to get Mitch the ball in the PNR, he seems to be missing a lot of easy shots around the rim.

    True, Alan. But I’ve seen a lot of bad passes thrown his way, where he has to be a contortionist to even catch the passes.

  38. NetsTown: True, Alan. But I’ve seen a lot of bad passes thrown his way, where he has to be a contortionist to even catch the passes.

    I agree. As much as we need more shooting, we also need improved team passing across the board. Rose’s assist rate is more than double Rivers’s, so hopefully it’s a small step in that direction.

  39. Bo Nateman: Excellent. I can say, I knew you before you blew up. ( IIRC, this is how Gandolfini and Cranston got their breaks….amirite?

    LMAO – Depends if they show me speaking at all. Maybe I’ll have at least one spoken sentence for the season.

  40. Hey Cdiggy, that is way cool sir. Hopefully you can bust out some Knick’s gear while the cameras are around :)

    Do you get a chance to interact with the students at work?

  41. One of the big takeaways from signing up for the NBA league pass a few years back was just how tired I have become from listening to the national anthem over and over and over again. It’s not a terrible tune, and on occasion can actually be very stirring. But, after now having heard dozens upon dozens upon more dozens of different renditions of the anthem – I’m very okay if I don’t hear it near so often in the future.

    Thank you Dallas Mavericks. I’m still hoping they lose every game they play while we hold their picks, but at least I won’t have to fast forward, or go do something else, during that part of the program.

  42. In any event, this loss will be long forgotten by the end of Friday night, when the Knicks will likely have kicked the Wizards’ stinky butts. So it’s all good.

    Do I believe in the Cronin curse enough to bet on the Wizards Friday? Hmm…

  43. Not only does Payton not pass to Mitch (or RJ), but when he does pass it’s a terrible POS. It’s impossible to count all of the missed lobs against Miami the past two games, since it’s basically every play with their trapping scheme, but here’s one example. Yes, Mitch misses an “easy shot around the rim,” but any reasonably competent PG would utilize the skills of his teammates and just throw a lob, like Mitch is imploring him to do. Payton instead waits a second for the defense to recover and throws a bad bounce pass.

    In general, Payton has stopped passing this season and seems to pass less the more his job is threatened. He’s now the rare NBA PG who can’t score, shoot, or pass. I don’t know how Thibs puts up with it—hopefully he doesn’t much longer.

  44. Phatt Gandalf is Big Chiefin’:
    Hey Cdiggy, that is way cool sir. Hopefully you can bust out some Knick’s gear while the cameras are around :)

    Do you get a chance to interact with the students at work?

    Sometimes – one of my main duties is to make sure game and event stats get taken and recorded. Sometimes I’m the one doing the stats live, sometimes I record them post-game, or we have a statistician (for higher profile sports such as baseball, basketball and football) logging live stats. It’s not a “student-facing” position per say, but I do get to talk with them here and there when I get the chance to do interviews and releases.

  45. Phatt Gandalf is Big Chiefin’:
    Hey Cdiggy, that is way cool sir. Hopefully you can bust out some Knick’s gear while the cameras are around :)

    If you’ve been around for awhile, you may have seen some of my posts where I detail how I’m mercilessly trolled by my supervisor and coworkers for being a Knicks fan. So I dunno if that’ll happen, lol.

    It was cool to learn one of the filming crew guys was a Knicks fan tho. We embraced in our shared pain… lol.

  46. To add to Z-Man’s litany of whiners (; ) — I’ve been noting this all season, but there was a real pandemic of poor passing last night. Not necessarily that the ball movement was poor — in fact, the team was really moving the ball well for much of the game. But the passes themselves often were not well-placed — guys were having to stretch, or lean down to snare the ball just off the ground, etc. All of which allowed the Heat, who are super-good at this already, a moment of time to close out and kill any shot opportunity. Time and again players were initially open for a shot but lost the chance because the passes took them out of shooting position. Or they shot it anyway, but off-rhythm — I saw a couple of three-point attempts (misses) start from grabbing the ball at or near ground level and then going up into the shot. A move i suspect they don’t practice often…

    It’s point guard art, and I don’t think anyone on our team has it. The Knicks suck at shooting for the most part, but then they make it harder on themselves.

  47. The Infamous Cdiggy: It was cool to learn one of the filming crew guys was a Knicks fan tho. We embraced in our shared pain… lol.

    Great news, congrats man! ;) And thank God you have another cursed soul to share the burden! :D

  48. it’s me Cdiggy – geo…i got my churchwarden (long stemmed pipe as appeared in the Lord of Rings) the other day and was feeling a bit inspired to switch up my game a bit here on KB…we’ll see how long it lasts :)

    It’s not a “student-facing” position per say, but I do get to talk with them here and there when I get the chance to do interviews and releases.

    helping to guide young folks is such an important task, i have no doubt you are able to provide a good image for those around you to see…

  49. Owen: Also, apropos of nothing, but I found this song the other day which I absolutely love. Its called Grounds by a post-punk outfit called Idles. It’s a good song but I think part of the reason I like it so much is because it sounds like something that would be a total hit in The Belt. Major Belter vibe.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkUt9VnaR0

    The Idles are great, have you seen their Tiny Desk concert? They’re crazy in a fun way! :)
    IDLES: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert

  50. Phatt Gandalf is Big Chiefin’:
    it’s me Cdiggy – geo…i got my churchwarden (long stemmed pipe as appeared in the Lord of Rings) the other day andwas feeling a bit inspired to switch up my game a bit here on KB…we’ll see how long it lasts :)

    Man, you can’t do that… we must know with whom we are feuding! :P
    BAAAAN! :D

  51. Thanks Cybersoze. I guess they are a lot bigger than I realized. That song is awesome but if you don’t listen to the lyrics you definitely get a major white supremacist vibe from them, although that’s the opposite of course of what they are.

    Kuminga did look really saucy. Is Cade falling? I feel like he should be. Numbers just ok.

  52. I understand there is serious stuff going on today; but, two of the brighter parts of my morning: Ted Lieu (whom seems like a pretty reserved individual in public) saying the word “pussy” on the senate floor; and, realizing ol’ mrs. Plaskett (no disrespect to mr. Plaskett) is kind of tall and hella sexy.

  53. The Infamous Cdiggy:
    Hey peoples… if I may engage in a little self-promotion for a second:

    Netflix just began promoting the new Last Chance U season to premiere March 10th. They’re switching from football to basketball, and guess who’s job/college is gonna be featured??!!! The trailer is here.

    (oh, and I may get some screen time too!)

    P.S. I run our college athletics website ;)

    Hey, that’s pretty cool! Congrats!

  54. In general, Payton has stopped passing this season and seems to pass less the more his job is threatened. He’s now the rare NBA PG who can’t score, shoot, or pass. I don’t know how Thibs puts up with it—hopefully he doesn’t much longer.

    I mean, I’m pretty sure he’s doing exactly what Thibs is asking him to do – drive to the basket a lot. The question is more, “Why does Thibs want that?” with a mixture of “If the Knicks’ offense is terrible while doing things this way, why not try another way?”

  55. Jared Harper is playing really well for the W’s. Including posturizing a guy about a foot taller than him.

  56. Congrats Cdiggy!

    I just saw the Jared Harper dunk on Twitter. He made it look effortless, like he just glided up into the air.

  57. Brian Cronin: I mean, I’m pretty sure he’s doing exactly what Thibs is asking him to do – drive to the basket a lot. The question is more, “Why does Thibs want that?” with a mixture of “If the Knicks’ offense is terrible while doing things this way, why not try another way?”

    Yeah, I’ve made this same argument before. It’s pretty obvious from his time in Chicago and Minnesota that Thibs wants his guards attacking the basket and trying to score instead of setting up the offense for other players. Even with the Bulls after Rose got hurt he didn’t really change the offense, he just plugged Nate Robinson in to the Rose role. And in Minnesota he let Wiggins shoot as much as he wanted even though Wiggins sucks and KAT is good. And then you look at Payton’s numbers this year and his FGA and USG% are at career highs while his assists and AST% are at career lows. I don’t see how anyone could think that this isn’t how Thibs wants his guards to play.

  58. The Infamous Cdiggy:

    It’s not a “student-facing” position per say, but I do get to talk with them here and there when I get the chance to do interviews and releases.

    In my real life, I am the Provost at a mid-sized University and every one of these interactions with students is incredibly important to them.

    You might not see yourself as student-facing but you should be thanked for being student facing regardless.

    Very cool.

  59. It’s funny, young folks may seem like they never listen, but they are always watching and learning.

  60. PerverseOsmosis: In my real life, I am the Provost at a mid-sized University and every one of these interactions with students is incredibly important to them.

    You might not see yourself as student-facing but you should be thanked for being student facing regardless.

    Very cool.

    Thanks, Perverse (and others)!

    Gandalf=geo – got it!

    I do look at my job as vital to the advancement of student-athletes. I’m definitely an advocate for them; stats help tell the story of a student’s performance, which ultimately helps them obtain transfer opportunities. An athletics’ website is many things: a promotional tool, leader of school/department branding, and a powerful recruitment tool for potential student-athletes and for 4-year coaches doing their homework on our players. Although there were others that handled these things in the past, I’m told the college has never had a full time position dedicated to these duties before I came on.

    It also finally lets me flex my Syracuse/Morgan State degree acumen. Communications-based degrees can pay off ultimately! Who knew?

  61. Brian Cronin: I mean, I’m pretty sure he’s doing exactly what Thibs is asking him to do – drive to the basket a lot. The question is more, “Why does Thibs want that?” with a mixture of “If the Knicks’ offense is terrible while doing things this way, why not try another way?”

    Even though we’re about 2 months into the season, don’t underestimate the lack of training camp/preseason/practice time effect w/a new coaching staff. Theoretically, if I knew I didn’t have enough time to fully implement a new system, I would prefer focusing on defense and playing hard. Besides, I don’t believe it’s a matter of offensive method – I just don’t think the talent on offense is good enough this year.

  62. ***don’t underestimate the lack of training camp/preseason/practice time effect w/a new coaching staff.***

    Don’t overestimate it either.

  63. I mean, I’m pretty sure he’s doing exactly what Thibs is asking him to do – drive to the basket a lot.

    I think Payton’s play goes beyond driving and being aggressive. The difference once Rose came in was glaringly obvious—just simple reads and quick decisions made a world of difference. I’d hope Thibs isn’t asking Payton to literally ignore open teammates.

  64. I really like the show but I feel like have to marshal some real mental resources to watch an episode. Still in season 4.

    Where do you stream season 4?

  65. Nice line from Jared Harper: 31 points, 10 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks and 1 steal, shooting 67% from the field and 80% from three

  66. Yeah, I’ve made this same argument before. It’s pretty obvious from his time in Chicago and Minnesota that Thibs wants his guards attacking the basket and trying to score instead of setting up the offense for other players.

    A good offense require some penetration.

    In the past they used to do that by dumping the ball into the hands of an elite C in the post that would either eat you alive inside or throw it out to an open shooter if you came with a double team.

    Now they do it with more often PGs (Embiid being one exception who incidentally may finally be in NBA shape). You want the PG to drive inside, collapse the defense, and then either dish to an open player or cutter (like Rose did with Obi on one play) or finish. In Payton’s case, we want him nearer the basket anyway because he can’t shoot from outside. So if he has an opportunity to finish, that’s fine. The problem for Payton is the same as it is for Randle, RJ and Mitch. There’s not much space because we don’t have shooters. So it’s hard for Payton to finish even if he gets inside. Rose will have problems also, but he’s a craftier and better player.

  67. It sure sounds like the Knicks would seriously consider a deal to bring in an all star caliber player and Knox, Frank, and 1st round picks (picks with a “s”) are all available for the right player.

  68. I’ve been noting this all season, but there was a real pandemic of poor passing last night. Not necessarily that the ball movement was poor — in fact, the team was really moving the ball well for much of the game. But the passes themselves often were not well-placed — guys were having to stretch, or lean down to snare the ball just off the ground, etc. All of which allowed the Heat, who are super-good at this already, a moment of time to close out and kill any shot opportunity.

    Seeing the same thing. Near the end of the game Randle was set for a corner three but the pass came in around his ankles. I said, no way he’s making this – and yes, he got the shot off before the close out, but it rimmed out.

    I felt like Quickly was making passes to the hands in his earlier games…maybe just eye-test stuff, though. Either way, the passes in the Heat game were almost always in different zip codes from the recipients. Not great for shooters.

  69. Donnie Walsh:
    ***don’t underestimate the lack of training camp/preseason/practice time effect w/a new coaching staff.***

    Don’t overestimate it either.

    Roster continuity seems far more important than coaching continuity. I don’t care how many sycophants on this board refuse to believe it, but Thibodeau doesn’t actually check into games. His players do.

  70. Deeefense:
    It sure sounds like the Knicks would seriously consider a deal to bring in an all star caliber player and Knox, Frank, and 1st round picks (picks with a “s”) are all available for the right player.

    Well, if they include Frank and Knox in any potential trade it will probably cost an extra 1st to dump their contracts so that checks out lol

  71. ***I don’t care how many sycophants on this board refuse to believe it, but Thibodeau doesn’t actually check into games. His players do.***

    K.C Jones diagrams final possession play on his clipboard during timeout. Larry Bird wipes the board with his sweaty towel and says “just give me the fucking ball and get out of the way.”

  72. Too bad Hunter is out there. Was excited to watch him d up. Amazing that he actually is one of the legit stars of that draft.

  73. Owen:
    Too bad Hunter is out there. Was excited to watch him d up. Amazing that he actually is one of the legit stars of that draft.

    I had no idea Hunter was playing this well, the numbers look really, really nice. Reddish on the other end… still seems completely incapable of shooting.

  74. De’Andre *isn’t* out there. I can’t type anything anymore. Yeah, he’s been great and apparently is a stud on defense. Not sure how many people would take him over RJ in the league but he seems to be legit.

    And yeah, Reddish basically airmailed one three to wherever Denton is.

  75. Yeah. Capela got reduced to overpaid fungible rim running big status there for a bit. And then the Hawks jumped to 15th on defense. And he’s good on offense too. Mitch is having a similar moment as Clint did last year.

    Trae Young nutmegging fools out there. Might have a career in professional croquet if the NBA thing doesn’t work out.

  76. The Infamous Cdiggy:

    It also finally lets me flex my Syracuse/Morgan State degree acumen. Communications-based degrees can pay off ultimately! Who knew?

    I used to live about a mile from the Morgan State campus.

    The internet did shrink the world in weird ways.

  77. Saddened me that we are out of the playoff picture.
    Do you honestly think this team have what it takes to make the playoffs?
    Personally i want them to make the playoffs and I want Dallas to sucks and lets get their pick and we have a chance to win the Porzingis trade.

    What’s the probability that this will happen-
    Knicks made the playoffs
    Dallas didnt and we get a top 3 pick

    Our team is like the old brooklyn with the flexibility and playoff exp and stable leadership we could be good in near future and its not like the old quick fix knicks, we are destined to be good for a long time if we play our cards right.

  78. I’d say the east is stronger than it typically is, so playoffs were always going to be hard to reach. Sixers, Bucks, Nets, Celtics, Heat (now that they’re getting healthy) Raptors and Pacers were always going to be locks, and the Hawks invested heavily to get there and probably will. There is a small chance Toronto just trades Lowry and gives up on the season, or Miami gets hit with more injuries and can’t come back, but even then the Hornets probably edge us out as they’ve also been quite decent.

    Maybe the 8th seed is up for grabs, maybe the 7th at most, but we look like about the 10th best team in the east to be fair.

  79. Neither does Jalen Brunson.

    Trae Young could be a Knick. I wouldn’t mind that.

    The over is looking good.

  80. On a positive note: I am enjoying this whole rooting against Dallas every game thing.

    They won this one, but, hopefully they lose next time.

    Good to see KP closing out games. Not.

  81. Man, Jared Harper’s highlights were fantastic tonight — he’s got sick range. Hope he gets a shot with the big club at some point this year.

  82. Lonzo Ball having another good game. Ever since we were rumored to be interested in him he’s remembered how to play basketball again.

  83. coby white and lavine have 8 threes each thru the third quarter. can’t be too far from the record for two teammates. probably around 20?

  84. Quite a different tone about Rose today on the board. I wonder what happened?

    Deeefense:
    It sure sounds like the Knicks would seriously consider a deal to bring in an all star caliber player and Knox, Frank, and 1st round picks (picks with a “s”) are all available for the right player.

    And it would be the right move. Losing a close one to an NBA final team like that makes you wonder how far off this team is from being good. It certainly isn’t 2019/2020 terrible.

  85. Mikal is literally everything we thought he would be and even more, I can’t watch him much without feeling the pain. The craziest thing is that he has played in every single game for the Suns since his rookie year, 82 first season, 73 last season and now 24. It hurts.

  86. Just up before the sun has fully risen, watching Jared Harper highlights from the G-League, like any healthy human would. Always hard to gauge how much to downgrade this stuff based on quality of competition, but it’s a nice mix of distance shooting, forays to the rim, and nifty passes to Iggy and others. Barring a rash of injuries, Harper has no role on the big club right now, but I suspect I’d enjoy watching him play more than Elfrid Payton.

  87. Alan:
    Just up before the sun has fully risen, watching Jared Harper highlights from the G-League, like any healthy human would. Always hard to gauge how much to downgrade this stuff based on quality of competition, but it’s a nice mix of distance shooting, forays to the rim, and nifty passes to Iggy and others. Barring a rash of injuries, Harper has no role on the big club right now, but I suspect I’d enjoy watching him play more than Elfrid Payton.

    Seems to have a nice stroke and good court vision. Unlikely that his forays to the rim would translate in NBA ( except against the Nets). Do not know how he would fare on defense.
    A Raptors’ alumni is also a good credential. Seems worthy of a look-see at NBA if he continues to play like this. We can hope the Elf gets packaged with Rivers and opens up a spot on parent club, though unlikely Thibs would give him any run.

  88. Hali’s ts is at .633 now… idk how you don’t draft a guy like that.

    On top of that, Vassell is heating up now.

    I want to have some faith in Obi, and I know it’s still early, but he’s starting to look like the latest Knicks draft blunder.

  89. Hali’s ts is at .633 now… idk how you don’t draft a guy like that.

    His hips are too high and his extremely accurate jump shot looks weird.

  90. 1. Trae Young is a terrific offensive player, but he should focus less on trying to imitate Curry and Lillard (who are uniquely great shooters from very deep) and try defending one player just one time. I get the upside of stretching the floor even further. It’s literally impossible to recover defensively from that far out if the player can hit shots at a good rate from well beyond the 3 point line. But he has to focus on D more if he wants to be a great player.

    2. I watch most Mavs games. In some ways they are doing a good job with KP on offense. However, at times he looks almost “washed up” on defense. He’s also not taking the ball to the rim hard or banging hard for rebounds. I’m not sure how much of that is fear of getting hurt again and how much is that he’s lost a step either temporarily or permanently, but he’s the not the same player he was down the stretch last season and in the playoffs. He’s slower, looks lost at times on defense, and won’t get to the FT in as much if he’s afraid to take any contact. Right now, the team is better with Willie Cauley-Stein on the court. They give up some spacing and offense in general, but Doncic is terrible on defense. If KP can’t defend the rim to protect Doncic getting beat anymore, that’s a problem. Maybe they can try a little more of KP and WCS on the court together. The Mavs are going to win some shootouts, but they aren’t going anywhere serious without playing defense.

  91. For our own mental health we should probably stop monitoring Hali. He’s a good player but I doubt his current 3p% is sustainable and there are still questions about whether he’s the fast scoring and penetrating PG they are looking for or more of combo guard with let’s say more PG skills than Quickley.

    Let’s focus on Obi. To me he looks a little quicker and better now that’s he’s recovered from the calf strain and is getting some time against the big boys in the NBA. He might fit nicely with Rose if the pace picks up and we have a real PG on the court.

  92. It’s so hard to make anything at all of Obi because he just is not playing. Less than 10 minutes in 4 of the last 5 games and now averaging about 11 minutes per game since returning from the calf injury. Hard to evaluate a guy when you might miss his whole stint if you take an ill-timed bathroom break. I know that, for better or worse, “seeing the bigger picture” is not really a part of what Thibs does but they 100% need to try playing him and Randle together again. Compared to when they made the pick Randle looks a lot more like a part of the core going forward, and Obi’s value is going to rapidly wither away to zero if he’s just a 10 minute a game backup to the league’s minutes leader.

  93. Deeefense: Let’s focus on Obi. To me he looks a little quicker and better now that’s he’s recovered from the calf strain and is getting some time against the big boys in the NBA. He might fit nicely with Rose if the pace picks up and we have a real PG on the court.

    Watching the game the other day it was hard to feel good about Obi while he was struggling to back down Duncan Robinson.

  94. Only because I’m feeling in a generous mood this morning, I’ll point out that Duncan Robinson is 6’7″ and weighs only 5 lbs less than Obi. He may look like the kid that always got beat up in elementary school, but he’s not a little guy. Plus Obi was successful, so not sure that’s the best example of why Obi will fail as an NBA player…

  95. Raven: Only because I’m feeling in a generous mood this morning, I’ll point out that Duncan Robinson is 6’7? and weighs only 5 lbs less than Obi. He may look like the kid that always got beat up in elementary school, but he’s not a little guy. Plus Obi was successful, so not sure that’s the best example of why Obi will fail as an NBA player…

    He was successful in that he did eventually score struggling against Duncan Robinson and the post and barely scoring is scary for his prospects. Plus I’m still angry we didn’t draft Haliburton.

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