NY Post: Derrick Rose, Reggie Bullock heroics lift Knicks to OT win over Pelicans

From Marc Berman:

It was a great battle of power-forward stud southpaws as Zion Williamson went toe to toe with Julius Randle.

But the game was decided by the Knicks’ backcourt of Derrick Rose and Reggie Bullock, propelling the Knicks to their sixth straight victory, 122-112 in overtime, over the Pelicans to move their record to a season-best 31-27 record.

The Knicks rallied from a six-point deficit in the final 1:30 — capped by Rose taking the inbounds driving down the lane and having the wherewithal to whip a pass to Bullock, who drained the game-tying 3-pointer from the left corner with 2.3 seconds left. The Pelicans could have fouled Rose, but might figured he was going for the easy 2.

Maybe there’s something to coaching skills atrophying, because these two Knicks/Pelicans matchups have been embarrassing, as Thibs has coached rings around Van Gundy, who used to be a pretty darn good coach back in Orlando. But SVG was terrible in Detroit and he’s somehow even worse here in New Orleans. They really need to fire that dude.

Anyhow, yet another amazing victory. In a lot of ways, this is the same exact sort of hustle we saw from them when they were losing these close games, but now they’re making the last second shot instead of missing them. That really makes all of the difference.

Four games over .500! Wow! Hopefully they can keep it going against the Hornets next! Hmmm…Future Knick Terry Rozier, perhaps?

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190 thoughts to “NY Post: Derrick Rose, Reggie Bullock heroics lift Knicks to OT win over Pelicans”

  1. Shams Charania: Nets’ Kevin Durant is out for remainder of game due to left thigh contusion, team says.

    He played only 4 mins. I think the narrative of the Nets clear title favorites doesn’t take into account the availability of the big3.

  2. Great work by the coaching staff after that string of close losses with bad plays down the stretch,
    now you can see that the players believe, no matter what.

    Randle gets most of the accolades (and rightfully so) but this is a real team, everyone does something to help.
    I can’t say enough good things about Taj Gibson, the Webster’s dictionary definition of “professional basketball player”…

    Lonzo botched the MSG exam and SVG’s work dwarfed compared to what Thibs has done here…

  3. Hats off to Thibs. This team never gets out coached and all the players seem willing to play whatever role they are given.

  4. 3rdQ collapse is an ugly habbit of our previous level but coming back confidently and empowering our Will is Next Level stuff.
    Once our youngsters start contributing steadily this squad can take another step forward.

  5. Freaking Nets couldn’t do the Knicks a favor and beat the Heat today. Gonna be pretty fascinating to see where the Knicks finish in the standings. They’re virtually guaranteed a Top 8 spot and it’s increasingly looking like 7th is the lowest they’ll finish which is great and would guarantee them 2 home games in the play in tourney if necessary.

    But right now 6th seed really does look in play and 5th would be incredible cause it would give them a legit chance of winning a playoff series which would be unfathomable. Just remarkable that all these playoff scenarios are actually on the table for the Knicks right now.

  6. How far can this team go playing Frank and Knox and Obi? I hope that we use our open roster slot wisely.

  7. It’s win-win. If we either get the 6th seed or wind up in the play-in and win, we get our first playoff series in forever. If we lose in the play in, we get a higher draft pick after a great season.

    There is nothing other than injury news that could make this season a negative. Nothing. NBA fans have taken notice in a 100% positive way for a change, probably for the first time since the 1990’s. Every opposing blog I peruse comments on how fun our team is, and that they’re kinda happy for Knicks fans.

    I would have been tickled pink with a win total in the 20s so long as the team was scrappy and teams had to play hard for 48 minutes to beat us. Wins like today’s are just icing on a beautiful cake of a season.

  8. My prediction is that the Knicks go 7-7 the rest of the way and finish 7th- Miami has a very easy schedule so I think they’ll make up ground and Atlanta’s isn’t too tough either. If the Knicks get lucky and some of the Western teams rest guys (and the Knicks have no big injuries of their own, of course) then maybe 5th or 6th will be in play. A play-in game seems a lock at this point- you’d need both Chicago and Washington to make up 7 games, one maybe, both extremely unlikely.

  9. If Zion comes here, I’ll personally make him Korean fire chicken. Everyone needs to do their part.

  10. Oops, smoked a little more than I thought- either Chicago or Washington would have to pass them not both. Still pretty unlikely.

  11. Jowles, sounds like civil unrest is escalating again in Portland with the latest police shooting, any inside scoop?

  12. SVG fuming at his players,
    it looks like the strategy was to foul us to negate the 3PFG and nobody did it.
    If true (and I don’t see any reason to go public on this otherwise) is a big failure from NO’s players, they had a lot of chances to do it…

  13. tnfh, it’s weird going to games, right? Where were your seats?

    I found that the viewing was just as good if not better. It’s kind of like a private vip viewing. Obviously not ideal from an overall viewpoint but really cool in a way as a unique thing. I’m probably going again on Wednesday vs. Hawks, that could be a tough one…

  14. And i think that when conboy watches that clip, he’ll automatically review his assessment on Zion not being a generational player :D

  15. I was thinking of ways we could keep Bullock/Burks/Noel (after today I can certainly see why some people might want to add Rose to that list, but we need to prioritize and I think we’d all agree those three are more important) and it occurred to me that we could do something technically legal but pretty sketchy: we could use our cap space this offseason to sign them to highly inflated one-year deals that offset massive discounts they take in 2022.

    For example, if we signed Burks to 1/$18M, Noel to 1/$15M, and Bullock to 1/$13M this offseason, assuming the cap holds for the 19th and 21st picks, and assuming we renounce Frank, we’d still have around $10M in space to play with this offseason (possibly a bit less depending on the timing of the signing of whoever we pick with the DET 2nd).

    Then in 2022 we’d renounce them all, keeping just Randle and Mitch’s cap holds on the books (and ~$3M or so for our pick). We’d have around $54M to spend on whoever (LaVine, Curry, etc. let your imagination run wild) before re-signing Randle and Mitch with Bird Rights. After we did that we’d have access to the Room Exception, so we could give Burks a 2/$10M deal. Noel and Bullock could be re-upped at the minimum for around 2/$M each.

    Obviously, Burks, Noel, and Bullock are all signing for far below their market values in this scenario, but…

    When you account for the inflated one-year deals they signed in the 2021 offseason, they’ve effectively signed 3-year deals amounting to the following:

    Burks: 3/$28M
    Noel: 3/$20M
    Bullock: 3/$18M

    Seems plausible? IIRC, the Lakers have done a series of deals like this to keep KCP throughout the years.

  16. tnfh, it’s weird going to games, right? Where were your seats?

    I was towards the front of section 210. Really nice view. I was with a group of five so we had to buy seats in groups of two and three.

    It took a lot of getting used to that things like the bathroom, concessions, getting in and out, etc. wouldn’t take forever. I also still totally expected the garden to go absolutely wild when the situation called for it just based off my instincts, but despite packing an impressive decibel punch per person that obviously can’t happen. So reduced capacity has its perks and its bummers.

    I probably wouldn’t have gone if I wasn’t double vaccinated, because while I think they make it as safe as something like this reasonably can be there are obviously a lot of limits there. Overall though I had a great time (I mean, how could I not, you all saw that game) and will be back.

  17. Also, I have to say that there’s a lot to be said for watching this group defensively in person. I’m not sure about anyone else but I find defense somewhat difficult to appreciate over the TV outside of obvious standout plays/players, but in person I got a great sense of the crispness of the rotations and the general hell these guys inflict on opponents.

  18. rj and zion would probably be the most fun reunited college teammates since… drexler and hakeem? i guess maybe hope that it doesn’t turn out like wall and cousins…

  19. Not to sound like a snob, but I’ve been lucky in going to games at the renovated garden…I only been in the lower bowl and never back further than row 12 or so (although never center court-ish, either.). Maybe when you are lower down you have less perception of the emptiness since most of the seats are behind you, the court and scoreboard fill your field of view, and they still pipe in some sound. But yeah, when you have a game like today it’s all good!

  20. thenoblefacehumper:
    Also, I have to say that there’s a lot to be said for watching this group defensively in person. I’m not sure about anyone else but I find defense somewhat difficult to appreciate over the TV outside of obvious standout plays/players, but in person I got a great sense of the crispness of the rotations and the general hell these guys inflict on opponents.

    I posted exactly the same thing after going to the Toronto game. The defensive intensity and scheme are much more impressive live than on TV.

  21. thenoblefacehumper: Seems plausible? IIRC, the Lakers have done a series of deals like this to keep KCP throughout the years.

    One would think that Brock Aller is aware of this strategy…probably a bit too complicated to execute with multiple players.

    I’d be fine with offering all of them better contracts than they have now…maybe around $12 mill for Burks, $10 mill for Noel and $7 mill for Bullock. If you offer more than that, maybe you are missing out on a player who gives you 90% of what they do for half the price or something like that.

    The key for me is that without expansion and with only modest growth in the cap, it will be a buyer’s market for teams with cap space. These guys are good, but $46 mill in cap space sounds like too much under these market conditions, even though it wouldn’t be hamstringing.

  22. heavencent35:
    That was an awful play for Pelicans. Guarding Rose and leaving a 3 pointer open with 2 secs on the shot lock.

    Stan Van Gundy went ballistic on his team in the post-game interview. He essentially said that they had a game plan and nobody executed it.

  23. I love that everyone watched this game and said pass on Lonzo Ball. That was a remarkably boneheaded defensive decision on the last play.

    Is he even a PG? His best role seems to be the shooting PG in a 2 PG lineup, like Jason Kidd that year with us. He would definitely help us but he’s not the best use of $20mm, let alone $28mm.

  24. thenoblefacehumper:
    I was thinking of ways we could keep Bullock/Burks/Noel (after today I can certainly see why some people might want to add Rose to that list, but we need to prioritize and I think we’d all agree those three are more important) and it occurred to me that we could do something technically legal but pretty sketchy: we could use our cap space this offseason to sign them to highly inflated one-year deals that offset massive discounts they take in 2022.

    For example, if we signed Burks to 1/$18M, Noel to 1/$15M, and Bullock to 1/$13M this offseason, assuming the cap holds for the 19th and 21st picks, and assuming we renounce Frank, we’d still have around $10M in space to play with this offseason (possibly a bit less depending on the timing of the signing of whoever we pick with the DET 2nd).

    Then in 2022 we’d renounce them all, keeping just Randle and Mitch’s cap holds on the books (and ~$3M or so for our pick). We’d have around $54M to spend on whoever (LaVine, Curry, etc. let your imagination run wild) before re-signing Randle and Mitch with Bird Rights. After we did that we’d have access to the Room Exception, so we could give Burks a 2/$10M deal. Noel and Bullock could be re-upped at the minimum for around 2/$M each.

    Obviously, Burks, Noel, and Bullock are all signing for far below their market values in this scenario, but…

    When you account for the inflated one-year deals they signed in the 2021 offseason, they’ve effectively signed 3-year deals amounting to the following:

    Burks: 3/$28M
    Noel: 3/$20M
    Bullock: 3/$18M

    Seems plausible? IIRC, the Lakers have done a series of deals like this to keep KCP throughout the years.

    this does not seem plausible.

    If I’m any of those players, for instance, I say thank you for the inflated one year deal and then I sign for the most money I can get when it’s over.

  25. Lonzo had a bad game, so I agree with those who say he shouldn’t be judged as if this game was an audition. I just don’t see a guy who looks like a $20+ mill AAV player. Patience….

  26. I do think most of these guys can be re-signed on team friendly 2 year deals. I know we love them right now but doesn’t Nerlens Noel do this every year and not get paid? Reggie Bullock isn’t playing any better than he did when we got him on a cheap contract.

    Burks may be the guy you have to pay a little more, give 3 years.

  27. the problem with lonzo is that thibs likes his pg’s getting to the basket… it’s the reason why payton is especially bad this year… it’s the reason why rivers was jettisoned for rose… it’s the reason why quickley has seen his playing time fall off… it’s the reason why we have so many no pass offensive possessions….

    lonzo might be an effective player but i have a tough time seeing him being a thibs pg… it probably would be like a jason kidd-esque 2-guard…. but also another thing to think about was that thibs had a version of lonzo on his team before and he traded rubio in favor of rose….

    maybe it still happens but i imagine thibs would have to do a lot to accomodate his playstyle and it’s unclear if he’s able or willing….

  28. djphan:
    the problem with lonzo is that thibs likes his pg’s getting to the basket… it’s the reason why payton is especially bad this year… it’s the reason why rivers was jettisoned for rose… it’s the reason why quickley has seen his playing time fall off… it’s the reason why we have so many no pass offensive possessions….

    lonzo might be an effective player but i have a tough time seeing him being a thibs pg… it probably would be like a jason kidd-esque 2-guard…. but also another thing to think about was that thibs had a version of lonzo on his team before and he traded rubio in favor of rose….

    maybe it still happens but i imagine thibs would have to do a lot to accomodate his playstyle and it’s unclear if he’s able or willing….

    +1

  29. Durant left the game with a bruised thigh. Are you kidding me? Is he missing a week?

  30. thinking about our starting point guard for next season – maybe the answer for a couple of years is lowry or conley…an older vet placeholder to help win now…

    there’s really no young star available to get through free agency, the draft is not likely to produce a starting point guard for us…maybe acquiring brunson, graham or signing mcconnell may work too…

  31. geo:
    thinking about our starting point guard for next season – maybe the answer for a couple of years is lowry or conley…an older vet placeholder to help win now…

    there’s really no young star available to get through free agency, the draft is not likely to produce a starting point guard for us…maybe acquiring brunson, graham or signing mcconnell may work too…

    The important thing is that whether we are talking about PG or any other position, you don’t pay a huge premium to get a guy who gives you slightly more than you could get at half the price or less. What’s clear is that the league undervalues defense. Keep signing unspectacular 2-way players (Bullock, Burks, Taj) and defensive studs (Nerlens) to value deals and pounce on bigger fish only when the time is right. The league is talking positively about the culture of this team. Let that stew and don’t pollute it with a square peg.

  32. Dallas lost to Sacramento with a typical disasterclass from KP, the day keeps getting better and better.

  33. geo:
    thinking about our starting point guard for next season – maybe the answer for a couple of years is lowry or conley…an older vet placeholder to help win now…

    there’s really no young star available to get through free agency, the draft is not likely to produce a starting point guard for us…maybe acquiring brunson, graham or signing mcconnell may work too…

    I’d love to sign Derek Harper ;-)

  34. The important thing is that whether we are talking about PG or any other position, you don’t pay a huge premium to get a guy who gives you slightly more than you could get at half the price or less. What’s clear is that the league undervalues defense. Keep signing unspectacular 2-way players (Bullock, Burks, Taj) and defensive studs (Nerlens) to value deals and pounce on bigger fish only when the time is right. The league is talking positively about the culture of this team. Let that stew and don’t pollute it with a square peg.

    I disagree, Z-Man. I think Thibs has shown that he can build a good defensive scheme no matter the talent on hand, so long as the players buy in. But this team has an extremely limited ceiling without even competent point guard play, much less the good kind. We struggle so much on offense even on nights when Randle is cooking, and we desperately need a real facilitator for the nights when he and/or RJ are even a bit off.

    I don’t know that Lonzo is the answer, even leaving aside yesterday’s game. But given that A)Randle is a relative bargain for one more year, B)that we have RJ on a rookie deal, C)that Aller and Rose in general seem good at finding role players on value contracts, and D)that good point guards will not come cheaply in this free agent class, I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all to give the bag to someone who can play the position well, even if it’s a Lowry who would only be useful for another year or two while you hope for a more permanent solution.

  35. I think that worrying about next year’s point guard is something those pathetic lottery teams should be worrying about now. Knicks fans should worry about playoff rotations.

  36. Knicks fans should worry about playoff rotations.

    Well, that’s a pretty easy one, even if it’s not the answer I would give. Thibs will play the five starters, plus Rose, Taj, Burks, and Quickley, with the latter having a short leash if he’s not hitting his shots. The Obi cameos will cease in the playoffs.

    I would just start Rose, and use Burks and Quickley as the main backup guards come playoff time. But even if Thibs is playing Elf less, he still doesn’t seem willing to bench him altogether.

  37. Is there a worst writer on the Athletic that Joe Vardon? He makes Berman look like Joseph Pulitzer…

    Watching Lonzo yesterday I started to warm at the idea of paying Lowry for a couple of years…

    About the current/playoffs rotation, I don’t know how much gas Rose has in the tank but I’m all in on starting him instead of The Plague, when Burks’ll come back there is enough firepower between him and IQ to keep the second unit floating…

  38. I hear you Alan, and if they go that way I’m good with it. I am also good with the bargain route. What I’m not good with is overpaying for an upside guy like Ball.

    I also think that buying in to Thibs’ scheme is not a given, nor is everyone physically suited to both execute it well and stay healthy. Kyrie would probably be a terrible fit with Thibs, for example.

  39. I also think that buying in to Thibs’ scheme is not a given, nor is everyone physically suited to both execute it well and stay healthy. Kyrie would probably be a terrible fit with Thibs, for example.

    True, but there is a difference between this situation and the Minnesota one. There, the buy-in problem came from guys Thibs inherited like KAT and Wiggins. Here, he has already managed to get Randle and RJ and all the role players to buy in, and going forward for a while, any free agent they sign is going to be someone who understands what would be expected of him on this team. And one of the advantages of a guy with Leon Rose’s background is that he already has a strong sense of what players will likely be Thibs Guys and which ones might promise to buy in but then not do it upon signing. They may make talent miscalculations (see Toppin, Obi), but I doubt they will make effort miscalculations. (Even Obi works his ass off; he just has stiff hips and terrible overall defensive instincts.)

  40. TNFH, did you need a PCR test to get into the game or was your vaccination card sufficient?

    Full disclosure: I’ve had about half a dozen PCR tests but the last one was administered very poorly so now I’m a big baby who’s scared to get let anyone stick one of those things up my nose. If I can get in with my vax card, that would be dope.

  41. Alan: one of the advantages of a guy with Leon Rose’s background is that he already has a strong sense of what players will likely be Thibs Guys and which ones might promise to buy in but then not do it upon signing.

    This seems to be exactly it. This is why they hired Alex Kline, who has known most of the players in the leagues since they were probably 9th graders, and Kenny Payne, while also obviously being a great basketball coach, has also known most of the prominent players since high school also.

    by the way – in retrospect now, I think that Derrick Rose trade was without a doubt a great trade. There was a lot of hemming and hawing here about it (and it is true that Quickley has struggled since then), but it’s hard to argue with the results and the cost of the trade. That Charlotte 2nd rounder would have been our 4th draft pick in this draft, and as of now is #45. It is extremely difficult to believe that we would’ve drafted 4 rookies regardless (not to mention 3 or possibly even 2!), and it’s not a high enough pick that it would really be worth anything other than as a tiny sweetener in trade.

    It really is hard to argue with anything, and I mean anything, that the FO has done since they started- except maybe the Obi pick. But it is still very early to make any definitive judgements about Obi. They elected to stand pat at the deadline, pretty much every offseason signing has been great, and the Thibs hiring, as much as we may have our gripes with certain things, has been a home run.

  42. Well, that’s a pretty easy one, even if it’s not the answer I would give. Thibs will play the five starters, plus Rose, Taj, Burks, and Quickley, with the latter having a short leash if he’s not hitting his shots. The Obi cameos will cease in the playoffs.

    It’s pretty important (to me, at least) that Quickley does not get buried in the postseason. Live with his inadequacies for 8-12 minutes a night. The experience he gets is going to be more valuable in the long term than whatever it is Thibs thinks Payton is providing.

    This only applies to IQ, though. I totally understand if Thibs wants to bury Obi Toppin and Kevin Knox. The playoffs is not charity, and you don’t give minutes to kids who can’t play the game. But IQ is better than Payton and he’s part of the future. He deserves to play, and it will be disappointing if Payton plays at his expense.

  43. Vaccination card was sufficient.

    Sweet! I bought tickets to the Charlotte game tomorrow faster than you can read this post.

  44. Kyrie would probably be a terrible fit with Thibs, for example.

    Man, I would love to see Kyrie try to tell Thibs he doesn’t feel like playing for the next 3 games.

    Thibs’ presence, btw, has a nice side effect: he is a deterrent to the kind of superstars I would hate to root for. There’s no way guys like Kyrie and Durant who don’t want to take the season seriously would ever play here.

    Which leads to an interesting question…

    How many here would trade places with the Nets right now? I envy their success, but man I’m pretty happy I don’t have to root for Kyrie and Durant. I would have to swallow a lot of shit to enjoy it.

    Harden is a different story. I know his style is unappealing but I’d be thrilled to have him on the Knicks. I’d rather it be without the two douchebags, though.

  45. I’m just so damned proud of this team and so happy to be a Knicks fan right now. Not only are we good again, but we’re good in the old school Knicks way. Tough defense and rebounding. The team plays for each other and plays hard and never gives up. Thibs has done an amazing job changing the culture of this franchise.

    Also, Ball might be a good off season acquisition but how good would Lowry look on this team instead of Payton? I think he still has a few good years left. I’d really consider that option as well. Sign him to a big 2 year deal.

  46. If your view of how Lonzo would fit in NY is based on how he played in LA and for Gentry, that makes some sense to me.

    If your view of Lonzo is based on a handful of games you saw and the stats from this year, imo you should delete that from your thinking other than maybe his FT% and other shot comparisons.

    He’s not playing a traditional PG role this year because they are trying to turn Zion and Ingram into playmakers with the ball in their hands a lot of the time. Lonzo may not fit and he may be too expensive, but imo this year has very little to do with anything other than whether you think his shooting skills are improving.

  47. Kyrie would probably be a terrible fit with Thibs, for example.

    Kyrie is a terrible fit with anyone unless it’s Lebron James and even that didn’t work for very long.

  48. I would not trade places with The Nets right now. And yes, I know if we had those 3 guys right now I’d be super excited and have visions of championships in my head right now. So yes, my answer is totally homerism.

    But honestly, they’re like 3 of the least likeable superstars in the league right now. Kyrie is probably my favorite only because I can kind of laugh at his eccentricities.

    But honestly, I’m all about the journey, not the destination. I want the destination too, a championship. But I’ve always felt like the best time to be a fan of a team is when they first start getting good and you start falling in love with the team and the players. And that is what I think we’re all feeling right now. We know this team isn’t winning it all this year. But we can imagine them upsetting a higher seed, maybe sneaking into the ECF. We can imagine the future with the cap space and draft picks and the day when a star wants to come here and join up. We can imagine this being the new RAndle for the next 4 or 5 years, RJ continuing to grow, IQ becoming the next 6th man of hte year in a few seasons. And that hope and imagination is so much fun.

    Mercenary teams are just that. They’re skipping the process, the fun part for the fan. The Nets in a few years probably won’t even be together like they are now while we could just be getting started.

  49. If I’m any of those players, for instance, I say thank you for the inflated one year deal and then I sign for the most money I can get when it’s over.

    This is the obvious risk you take, but KCP could’ve signed for more than 1/$8M in 2019. He didn’t, because there was pretty clearly an understanding that his 1/$18M and 1/$12M deals were priming the pump and staying with the Lakers allowed them to eventually get his full Bird Rights and thus give him another big contract.

    When you consider the Bird Rights part of the equation, the player has a chance to come out ahead in this scenario as compared to any other.

    Clearly the maneuver requires some serious front office savvy to pull off and a lot could go wrong. I just don’t see particularly enticing uses of cap space this summer outside of salary dumps, which for better or worse I don’t see us being wildly interested in, and with the figures I used we’d still have ~$10M for them anyway.

  50. The Knicks priority in the off season should be to try to find a star level shooter/scorer and a PG, most likely using picks as the primary asset. If they can find a player that’s both, that’s even better. You never know who might become available. After that, we can worry about the role players like Noel, Burks, and Bullock. I like all 3 a lot, but they aren’t going to win us a championship. They are the supporting cast after we add another star to Randle and RJ. It’s certainly possible that RJ really breaks out into top 10 star level eventually, but you can’t count on that. To get to the next level, we need an upgrade somewhere to go along with development from young players.

  51. The Knicks priority in the off season should be to try to find a star

    Damn, can’t believe I didn’t think of this :(

  52. I wouldn’t trade with the Nets because Durant and Irving are two of the least likable stars of my lifetime

  53. cybersoze:
    And i think that when conboy watches that clip, he’ll automatically review his assessment on Zion not being a generational player :D

    Wow Zion likes the Knicks and the Garden. Come play here.

    I want to make it clear that I meant no slight when I doubted Zion would turn into a generational player. Zion is very good already, as good as pre-injury Larry Johnson. If LJ did not get injured, he would have become a top 50 players of all time. Zion can reach that level as well and I think he will benefit from being coached by someone like Thibs.

    P.S. To me, generational players are the likes of Kareem, Dr J, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Curry, Durant, etc… Zion can be on the next level down.

  54. I gotta weigh in even tho I didn’t read the whole thread. My apologies.

    This is a great season, obviously. I’m very happy. Winning NBA games is something I don’t take for granted.

    The national media barely mentioned that Burks didn’t play. He’s been huge for us down the stretch but we’ve got this “next man up” thing. I really can’t believe I just wrote that sentence about NYK.

    I believe we have yet another gear. If we had played four quarters to our potential NOP gets blown out yesterday. Big threes, big two NBA teams, hear me… all your guys better be heathy. Kyrie and G League all stars may not be able to beat NYK.

    I think our main priority in the off season will need to be to sign this team back. Nerlens, Alec, Reggie certainly. Then add someone of impact as a FA and get value in the draft… Not something to worry about now though. How about a deep playoff run first?

  55. KCP could’ve signed for more than 1/$8M in 2019. He didn’t, because there was pretty clearly an understanding that his 1/$18M and 1/$12M deals were priming the pump

    I don’t think that’s true. He definitely took less money the year he made $8mm, but he got a three year deal as soon as it was over.

    What makes more sense to me is that, after giving Pope an oversized one year deal two years in a row, he had enough money in the bank to consider a discount, and he trusted them when they said “take this cheap one year deal now, and when it’s over, if you stay health, we’ll give you a three year contract that makes up for the discount you’re taking this year.”

  56. Zion can’t legally drink yet and he’s putting up prime Barkley numbers. He’ll probably peak earlier and with a shorter duration than a Luka or SGA, but his peak could be 35 PPG on .650 TS%. He’s a stout Giannis. Multiple MVPs is his ceiling if he ever figures it out on D. That’s a top 50 player, should he get there.

  57. We can still use Pope as a model, though. It would just work a little different.

    Rather than max Lonzo or overpay Schroeder, just offer Burks, Noel, and Bullock (and maybe even Rose) oversized one year deal than makes sense for them. You might lose one if someone comes along and offers them 4 years, $48mm. But if that happens, c’est la vie.

    I would be more than happy to watch this team minus Elf plus three draft picks, next year. And we’d have the ability to offer one or two of the vets the kind of promise that I think the Lakers and Pope actually did make.

  58. Yup. Resign everyone. In order of priority – Burks, Noel, Bullock., Rose and Taj (those dudes should come cheap). Whatever is left over, use to get Lowry on a 2 year deal. Then make those picks and keep building. Next year resign Randle and possibly Mitch if he stays healthy and keeps improving.

  59. I would be more than happy to watch this team minus Elf plus three draft picks, next year. And we’d have the ability to offer one or two of the vets the kind of promise that I think the Lakers and Pope actually did make.

    It’s amazing that we’re saying this, but I feel the same way. Maybe we can get a guy like Cam Payne on the cheap to replace Elf? Or even a euro vet, we just shouldn’t spend too much money on a stopgap. Plus, we can take another crack (or two) at PG in the draft with Giddey/Butler/Springer/McBride/Dosunmu and see how that goes. Just because it rarely happens to us doesn’t mean we won’t get lucky and find a star later in the draft who can help out as a rookie (chances are slim, I know.)

  60. https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31288992

    ^ this Woj clip about zion and the knicks gave me goosebumps.

    From now on, no debate about RJ Barrett’s ceiling or value can ignore the fact that he’s best friends with Zion Williamson!

    If someone asks me if I would trade RJ for Ja, for instance, I’m going with “No” unless you can prove to me that Ja has Zion’s number in his cell phone.

  61. How much is an established point guard like Lowry better than a Payton/Rose point guard combo?

    Plague+Rose combined averages 22/6/6 a game.

    Don’t get me wrong. I get it – our point guard situation is far from ideal, but given the scarcity of premier point guards, aside from Curry, Damien, Kyrie, Paul, who is decidedly better than a Plague/Rose combo?

    I am very curious to hear what you guys have to say

  62. Don’t get me wrong. I get it – our point guard situation is far from ideal, but given the scarcity of premier point guards, aside from Curry, Damien, Kyrie, Paul, who is decidedly better than a Plague/Rose combo?

    [Extremely fake Gary Oldman in The Professional voice]
    EVERYONE!!!!!!

    Rose has turned out to be fine as a backup and spot starter, assuming you can bottle up your feelings about [redacted], but Payton is just so, so bad, even on the nights when he’s playing well by his standards. There are a lot of point guards in the league who would be drastic upgrades, even if they are themselves not stars.

  63. How much more does this team need? Really? Oh, I admit, I can find three better players on the Nets alone. But I hate all 3 players. I really do. I hate them as individuals, Kyrie Flatearth, Kevin Glass and James Flopper. I’ve never agreed with Stephen A, but he’s debating with Kellerman on ESPN right no and said, “If the Knicks make the playoffs and the Nets don’t win the trophy, the Knicks will be the NY success story.”

  64. It’s really hard to fathom how great Randle has become this year. Replacing Elf with Lowry or CP3 would, I think, vault this team into dark horse contender status – assuming health, CP3 would do that probably more so than Lowry because CP3 would unlock Mitch and Obi most likely. One could make the argument that Lowry is better off-ball than CP3 though. Randle’s 3 point shooting just opens up so many possibilities though – he can play on-ball or off ball.

    I still think it is not ridiculous to think CP3 will opt out and come play for his best buddy Leon Rose. We’d prob have to give him 3 for 90 (or more) but, well, that’s what you have cap space for. Sure, PHX is really really good, but you know what? Add CP3 as a FA (ie. no assets going out), resign Rose to play backup PG, bring back either Burks or Bullock, get a health Mitch, have RJ and Randle continue their improvement…. that’s a really really good team too. I mean, I don’t think you could find a bigger step-up than it would be from Elfrid Payton to the Point God himself, even at age 36 or whatever he is.

  65. and by the way – it’ll hurt the Knicks financially because of Supermax ramifications, but I think Randle should SOLIDLY be in the All-NBA 3rd team conversation, especially if we can get a 4/5/6 seed. He’s been the MVP of a very good team, and even more importantly, has been a two-way player that’s played just about every game (knocking on all wood in the vicinity). The MIP is a lock.

  66. We can still use Pope as a model, though. It would just work a little different.

    I think we’re talking about the same idea in different ways. The Pope model is an overpay and then an underpay, after which Bird Rights are established. That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. Overpay them for a year, then renounce those enormous cap holds and underpay them for year or two (whichever they prefer), averaging to an AAV they’d find acceptable over those 2-3 years. At that we’d have their Bird Rights and could re-sign them to a market value deal (if doing so would make sense for us by then, obviously).

  67. Plague+Rose combined averages 22/6/6 a game.

    Don’t get me wrong. I get it – our point guard situation is far from ideal, but given the scarcity of premier point guards, aside from Curry, Damien, Kyrie, Paul, who is decidedly better than a Plague/Rose combo?

    Truthfully, almost every team in the league is better than this.
    -The Knicks are 29th in the league in assists per game. This is the primary job of a PG
    -There are 16 guards in the league averaging this many points per game by themselves, without their backup.
    -You have added their stats together, but they combine for 51 minutes / game.

    Ben Simmons and Tyese Maxey are a combined 22/9/9. Kyle Lowry by himself is almost this good. So is Malcolm Brogdon, and Tray Young, Kemba Walker. I’d rather have Charlotte’s PG combo. That’s just the east….I’m not sure there’s a team in the east that would trade their PG situation for ours straight up. Then you go the the west and you get Morant, Conley, Russell, Chris Paul, Shai, etc. I know that most of these guys are not available. but our PG combo is bottom of the league in terms of talent.

  68. Payton seems to be a constant target by Knick fans. What he brings is size and defense. His replacement will be IQ who has work to do in the offseason to improve his D. We have 2 firsts to add to this mix. We have Toppin who needs to take a step up and Frankenox too. The question isn’t what free agents are added, it’s what current players are gone or out of the rotation.

  69. “Hubert
    April 19, 2021 at 9:42 am

    Kyrie would probably be a terrible fit with Thibs, for example.

    Man, I would love to see Kyrie try to tell Thibs he doesn’t feel like playing for the next 3 games. ”

    *

    I remember back in 1999, a still very young Marcus Camby asked Van Gundy to come out of a game for “a little breather”. Van Gundy didn’t put him back in for 5 full days.

    Camby turned from a soft under-achiever into a leave-it-all-on-the-court, charge-taking, 37-minutes per game playing man within a month and a half of that episode.

    Say what you will about Thibs and his old-school mentality, but those were the days when the Knicks were last inspirational, and New York needed a return to Riley/Van Gundy era tough love.

  70. “If the Knicks make the playoffs and the Nets don’t win the trophy, the Knicks will be the NY success story.”

    The Nets matter on a national basis but they’re irrelevant locally. Even if they win the championship, around here what the Knicks did will still be more important.

    As Durant would say, “the cool thing in NY is not the Nets.”

  71. I had an interesting (to me) thought…

    Obviously no one is getting a parade in a covid environment but imagine covid never happened and the Nets won a title. Does that team get the canyon of heroes parade down Broadway?

    I don’t think so. They probably close down Atlantic Ave and do something in Brooklyn that is sparsely attended, like all those time the New Jersey Devils celebrated a stanley cup in the parking lot.

  72. it’ll hurt the Knicks financially because of Supermax ramifications

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Randle is not supermax eligible because he wasn’t on the Knicks while he was still playing on his rookie deal.

  73. Even with Kyrie/Durant/Harden, I can’t bring myself to care about or watch the Nets. I just can’t. I don’t know why and I live in New Jersey. Before that I live in NY.

    In my book, there were only 3 Nets teams that were worth watching in the past 40 years.

    1) 83/84 Nets with Michael Ray, Buck, Albert King, Dawkins/G-man, Birdsong and co. were very root-able.

    2) 92/93 – the Derrick whoopi damn do Coleman, Kenny Anderson, Dražen Petrovi? led Nets were so damn entertaining

    3) 01/02 – Kidd’s led Nets with Kenyon, Kittles, Keith van Horn, Richard Jefferson was such a good, fun team to watch.

    The rest – meh

  74. Payton seems to be a constant target by Knick fans. What he brings is size and defense.

    Payton’s defense is terrible, as shown by both statistics and various scouting breakdowns. He was drafted in the lottery because he could allegedly penetrate, pass, and defend, even if his shot needed work. His shot has never gotten better, his penetration is good relative to this team but bad overall, he has tunnel vision when it comes to passing, and he gets abused on defense.

    Do. Not. Want.

  75. as much as I like bullock/burks/noel i think we’re going to have a real tough time bringing them back… i think kcp style contracts are plausible but they probably have played themselves into at least mle type of money and there should be some demand out there for multiyear contracts… bullock was about to get 2/21 from us for instance before the injury… i think it might be easy to bring one of them back.. and i think bullock is probably the best candidate but all three is a heavy lift…

    and i do think we need to consolidate that cap room to find that third piece anyway… lavine might be an answer that’s on the horizon for 2022 and i think we might try to clear cap for him… we do need a pg but i think that scenario probably keeps us out of any cp3/lowry discussions… i have a feeling that we’re probably going to stick with rose as a placeholder and look towards the draft for an answer… dinwiddie or mcconnell might be an option also… i love mcconnell so i’m hoping we grab him…

    i do think taj has a high probability of coming back… i hope we can offer him perpetual one year deals…

  76. Frank:
    and by the way – it’ll hurt the Knicks financially because of Supermax ramifications,but I think Randle should SOLIDLY be in the All-NBA 3rd team conversation, especially if we can get a 4/5/6 seed.He’s been the MVP of a very good team, and even more importantly, has been a two-way player that’s played just about every game (knocking on all wood in the vicinity).The MIP is a lock.

    Yes. Randle can dust a shelf off at home. That Most Improved Player trophy is on the loading dock already.
    The Randle contract is going to be easy for Leon. Back up the Brinks truck.

  77. chriskZIPCODE: Truthfully, almost every team in the league is better than this.
    -The Knicks are 29th in the league in assists per game.This is the primary job of a PG
    -There are 16 guards in the league averaging this many points per game by themselves, without their backup.
    -You have added their stats together, but they combine for 51 minutes / game.

    Ben Simmons and Tyese Maxey are a combined 22/9/9.Kyle Lowry by himself is almost this good. So is Malcolm Brogdon, and Tray Young,Kemba Walker.I’d rather have Charlotte’s PG combo.That’s just the east….I’m not sure there’s a team in the east that would trade their PG situation for ours straight up.Then you go the the west and you get Morant, Conley, Russell, Chris Paul, Shai, etc.I know that most of these guys are not available.but our PG combo is bottom of the league in terms of talent.

    Got it. Thank you.

    P.S. I was aware of the combined 51 min per game total. The 22/6/6 is actually a discounted combined stats per game

  78. I believe there is a Buddhist Koan that asks that very question.

    “If the Nets win a championship, throw a parade and no one attends, did the championship really happen?”

  79. Lowry is so much better than Elf even at his age. Its not just that he’s a better PG and will dish out more assists. He finishes at the rim better and is a much better 3 point shooter. Defense might be a step down from Elf given his age but I think that’s minimal. And I like that Lowry can play on or off the ball. Also, Thibs likes the penetrating and probing PG and Lowry brings that.

    Elf is just so bad at shooting. Both at the rim and from 3 point land. Even if he was just like a 34 percent 3 point shooter and finished at the rim at a respectable level, he would be so much better.

  80. they probably have played themselves into at least mle type of money and there should be some demand out there for multiyear contracts…

    It’s kind of annoying that Nerlens Noel is having the same year he always has, but because our success is so visible someone might finally decide now is the time to offer him money!

    But we have $65mm in cap space (before accounting for our picks). If the Paul/Lowry thing fails, just offer Burks, Bullock, and Noel up to double the MLE for one year and make it hard to say no. If they all say yes, we still have around $15mm in cap space plus the room exception.

  81. Alan: Payton’s defense is terrible,

    Elfrid Payton Jr. (born February 22, 1994) is an American professional basketball player for the New York Knicks of the National Basketball Association (NBA). He played college basketball at University of Louisiana at Lafayette, where in 2014 he won the Lefty Driesell Award as the National College Defensive Player of the Year

    It’s not worth the argument because Thibs disagrees with you. That’s all that matters. That’s why a poor offensive player, one that can’t finish at the rim, was given the starting point guard job.

  82. Fun random factoid of the day just stumbled upon. The most efficient post scorer in terms of points per post-up possession this season, for players logging at least 100 post-ups, is:

    Robin Lopez

  83. Fun less-random factoid: Phil Jackson is responsible for over half of Robin Lopez’s career earnings.

  84. It’s not worth the argument because Thibs disagrees with you.

    And coaches never talk up their own players, especially vets, when meeting with the press? Thibs plays Elf because he doesn’t fully trust Quickley yet, and because he doesn’t consider Frank as a point guard except in case of absolute emergency. If Elfrid Payton is the starting point guard on the New York Knicks next season, I will eat my hat.

    And citing Elf winning a defensive award in college tells us absolutely nothing about how good he’s been on defense as a pro.

  85. The market for non-shooting, non-offense playing bigs like Nerlens is probably not going to be super robust. He should be able to get more than the peanuts he’s earning now but I wouldn’t expect to see him getting an offer we wouldn’t want to match.

    It’d be nice to have both Bullock and Burks back but maybe just keep one of the two and try to find another similar guy on the cheap.

  86. It’d be nice to have both Bullock and Burks back but maybe just keep one of the two and try to find another similar guy on the cheap.

    I go back and forth on who should be prioritized. The way the team this year has been built, Burks is the more valuable player, because he can be our closer on nights when Randle and/or RJ are struggling, and he can also be the backup PG on nights when Rose or Quickley don’t have it. He can create offense out of nothing, which very few guys on this team can, and of late he’s been more consistently able to do that than others.

    But if we’re assuming we get a real point guard and an upgrade at the wing in the offseason, then Bullock might be the more useful player for how the roster should be. He stretches the floor, and Thibs generally has him defend the opposing team’s best wing. And it seems like shooting is hard to come by than an instant offense type. Burks is obviously much better than, say, ISO-Zoe, but reliable shooters get paid in this league at a rate that microwave scorers don’t. And Bullock is only cheap because he was injured when he signed with us. (And originally signed for a higher number.)

  87. The Good
    Elfrid upgraded his last season’s 3p percentage by 8.4%
    The Bad
    He shoots at 28.7% this season so far
    The Ugly
    Last season was at 20.3%

  88. Keep in mind the two-year contract you guys are using as an example of Bullock’s market value was offered by Steve Mills the same summer Bobby Portis became a $15 million man. I’m not sure that’s a proper benchmark.

  89. I think I would keep Bullock over Burks.
    Better 3 point shooter (if somewhat less versatile).
    My sense is that Bullock is a much better defender.

    Remember that ideally we bring on another true shot creator at some point. That means that second unit will either have Shot Creator X leading it or Randle, making Bullock’s backup PG do-everything less necessary. But a quick trigger 3 point shooter and big switchable defender is pretty useful to have, even if he can’t really put the ball on the floor.

    I don’t know that Bullock will cost more than the midlevel. 2 for 21 might be the high end. I think he might sniff non-taxpayer MLE which is probably 2 for close to 20. Let’s say the Knicks offer 2/18. Is $2MM enough to leave what’s obviously a good situation?

  90. bondy said mitch and noel both fired rich paul in part bc they were pissed he had then end up on the same team.
    not sure about the other 40 agents they’ve dropped

  91. Julius Randle and Steph Curry were just named the East and West Player of the Week. It’s the first time any Knick has been named POTW since KP way back in 2017.

  92. Nice Victory yesterday. I picked up the last 5 minutes on the radio. Once they were down 7 and RJ fouled out, I had already accepted the loss – such a pleasant surprise they now have “next man up” mentality.

    A friend knows how much I enjoy Knicks basketball and asked me a tough question. What Jersey should I get? I have a KP #6 in the closet… I should just go with Bernard King.

    But seriously, what name right now is worth investing long term?

    Others have been talking about resigning Burks/Bullock/Noel, but only if the deals are good. Every year there should be these types of guys available, players who have flaws and are not great, but at least NBA rotation level players. Pepper these guys into your developing core and reset every year.

  93. But seriously, what name right now is worth investing long term?

    RJ seems slightly safer than Randle, who could potentially get traded sometime in the next couple of years. Though Randle’s our best player now, the differing contract situations seems to make RJ more untouchable.

  94. i just looked it up and saw mitch on his sixth agent, yikes – like them folks that get married 5 or 6 different times, okay, once or twice – shit happens…4 or 5 times though…ew…

    wasn’t able to find how many different agents noel has had, just a lot of coverage on that one deal (4/70) he turned down with dallas…

    to date he’s earned 27 million, not a bad job mister noel…2 years and 16 million , maybe a player option for 8 million in year three – for a guy though that plays that significant a role on defense, he’s worth it even in these times when centers aren’t valued that highly…

    he can really impact a game at the defensive rim…

    by the time nerlens retires he’ll probably make over 80 million playing basketball…

    shit, i like to shop and i think i’d have a hard time spending 80 million dollars during a lifetime…

  95. good question, if i had to choose a knick jersey number to wear, it would probably be #10…never saw him play, but – ewing didn’t win a ring :)

  96. ha, sly you just sent me surfing through the web to find knicks gear, i’m partial to sweatshirts and stuff…i tend to buy new stuff to wear, but – it would seem pretty cool to live around the city and have the opportunity to hit some “vintage” clothing stores to hunt for knick gear…

    there’s probably some really nice old logo stuff that’s come out over the years sitting in some of them stores…

    got to imagine – knick gear is flying out of inventory all over the world right now..

  97. Sounds like the Nets are going to sign Mike James, in whom we had interest, according to Berman Of The Post.

  98. Bo Nateman: Emeril Lagasse? Drew Brees?

    LOL I meant personally (Though I probably shouldn’t automatically assume that you don’t know those two.)
    They just seem like one of those franchises that don’t have fans outside of their home base, so other than at Smoothie King Center, you never see or hear of one. Like the Jazz*

    (*Jazz fans are far less mythological b/c the team has had success. You know their fans exist.. just not outside Utah.)

  99. geo:
    good question, if i had to choose a knick jersey number to wear, it would probably be #10…never saw him play, but – ewing didn’t win a ring :)

    #19 and #10 are the most timeless choices. I’m partial to #10 because Clyde is Clyde. Then #33 and #30 (Bernard). For today’s Knicks, I agree that #9 is probably the safest choice…#34 is a good way to say fuck you to Dolan.

  100. Jazz are big in the Philippines now because of Jordan Clarkson. So, yes, there are Jazz fans outside of Utah. Maybe some still left from when they were in Nola? Clyde kept accidentally calling the Pels the Jazz on the road game telecast.

    I think with the Nets skipping some process steps and kind of insta-creating a big 3 the pandemic and no live crowds means that there really is very little connection between the city and that team. It’s almost as if the Lakers decided to play their home games in Brooklyn.

    Despite the Dolan wrecking ball the Knicks are New York’s team and there are New Yorkers everywhere. Players like big fan bases. That’s why, now that we’re no longer a shit show, we may get, like, fucking ZION or DAME or something really nice like that and maybe I do get my chip before the big yawn…

  101. Sly: A friend knows how much I enjoy Knicks basketball and asked me a tough question. What Jersey should I get? I have a KP #6 in the closet… I should just go with Bernard King.

    But seriously, what name right now is worth investing long term?

    A while back I came to the realization that I shouldn’t buy jerseys of young players. Too much of a risk that they’ll leave in FA or get traded, get injured, or flame out. So any jersey I buy is either for a player that’s already played a bunch of years for the team or is retired. So for the Knicks there isn’t an active player I would get a jersey for but I would get a deGrom jersey without hesitation.

  102. Sly: A friend knows how much I enjoy Knicks basketball and asked me a tough question. What Jersey should I get? I have a KP #6 in the closet… I should just go with Bernard King.

    But seriously, what name right now is worth investing long term?

    Don’t mock me, but I only wear John Starks.

  103. Starks is fine. Oak, LJ, Houston, Spree…all good choices…just not as good as the classics. And of course there’s #17…(not Nate the Snake)

  104. 11 y.o Dink once begged his parents to buy him a very expensive *authentic* John Wallace jersey right after the 1996 draft. Haven’t bought (or asked for) the jersey of an active Knick since.

  105. Dink:
    11 y.o Dink once begged his parents to buy him a very expensive *authentic* John Wallace jersey right after the 1996 draft. Haven’t bought (or asked for) the jersey of an active Knick since.

    Aw man. That’s a name. I had such high hopes for him.

  106. Dink:
    11 y.o Dink once begged his parents to buy him a very expensive *authentic* John Wallace jersey right after the 1996 draft. Haven’t bought (or asked for) the jersey of an active Knick since.

    For me, it wasn’t a Knick but I got a Hakeem Nicks jersey and a year later his career was wrecked due to injuries.

  107. Not sure I’ve ever seen a shooting stretch as good as Steph’s these last few games. Some of his shots are ridiculous.

    It’s nice to see him healthy, and playing for an underdog.

  108. The Sixers are missing two of their best players, but if Steph just doesn’t miss anymore the Warriors are going to be a problem for someone in the playoffs

  109. The Infamous Cdiggy: Speaking of secondary fan bases… do any of you guys know a Pelicans’ fan?

    I have a couple friends in New Orleans and one of them is a fan

  110. I love how when Steph hit that monster 1st quarter buzzer beater over Seth, he did his little point-up-at-god” thing, which basically had the subtext of, “Jesus likes me more than you, Seth.”

    Also I got a Starks jersey when I was 9 because my friend got the Ewing one and we sure as hell couldn’t be wearing the same thing because that would be so lame, unlike 9-year-olds who are very cool. This was after 2-for-18. I have no idea what I was thinking.

  111. Z-man: Haha, Celts lose to the Bulls at home and are now tied with the Knicks…

    Pacers lost and i think now the Top8 is almost guaranteed for the Knicks. We must keep an eye on the Hornets (8th), but right now we’re in a fight for the 4th to 7th places, where the Heat won so the 7th is right behind us. Would be amazing to be Top6, but Top5 would be dope.

  112. Beyond that, 7 or 8 would be better than 9 or 10 unless being in the late lottery is appealing. Games 71 and 72 could be huge in determining seeding so kudos to Silver.

  113. Melton threw a super dumb pass.

    i knew you were too fickle for the meltwagon. probably never even truly loved him. change your handle to vivian flores.

  114. vincoug: A while back I came to the realization that I shouldn’t buy jerseys of young players.Too much of a risk that they’ll leave in FA or get traded, get injured, or flame out.So any jersey I buy is either for a player that’s already played a bunch of years for the team or is retired.So for the Knicks there isn’t an active player I would get a jersey for but I would get a deGrom jersey without hesitation.

    I kid you not – this is the list of jerseys my son has – I got them for him because I was SURE there wasn’t any way they would leave their respective teams…

    Odell Beckham
    Jeremy Lin
    Porzingis
    Darnold
    Jamal Adams

    He doesn’t have a single jersey that is current. I won’t do it anymore.

  115. The look on George Hill’s face when he gets beaten on the stepback 3 last night – check it out on the close-up angle – the look of complete resignation before Steph even releases the ball. Must be so demoralizing.

  116. thinking of the best case outcomes from an enjoyment perspective…

    I don’t think I would enjoy a 4/5 matchup with Boston (and I’m confident they’ll finish 4th with their schedule). We’d probably lose and it would be an annoying end to a great season.

    I think I would love a 3/6 matchup with Milwaukee. They’re great but you can take things away from that team in the playoffs and they have a hard time adjusting. Even if we lose a tough series we’ll still feel great.

    The play in tournament is also a positive outcome. It gives us something we can feel good about winning and ends with a matchup against the Nets that could be competitive if Durant/Harden are injured or if Kyrie Irving doesn’t want to play bc Mercury is in retrograde.

  117. Re: Zion – I know this is catnip to NBA media because they really do love to stoke up “FA to NYK” stories, but you can’t fake that interview, and as Malika Andrews said on Windhorst’s podcast, Zion says what he means.

    He’s got 5 years-$75MM in the bank already via his Nike deal, and I imagine at least $10MM/year in other stuff. I guess his qualifying offer is $18MM (total value of his rookie deal is about $63MM). That means by the time he needs to make that threat/choice, he’ll prob have $180MM in the career total on/off court earnings already at age 23-24. If NOP continues to stink (and maybe even more importantly, continues to refuse to go into the luxury tax), why wouldn’t he leave? Maybe it’s my lack of $150MM in the bank, but at some point you’ve really got too much $ to spend in one lifetime or your kids’ lifetimes and you might just head for the best situation (not to mention probably greater overall earning potential if you’re talking NYC vs New Orleans).

  118. So if one of us had predicted at the beginning of the season that on 4/20/21 we’d have the same record or better than the teams below, we would have all assumed that one of us was celebrating 4/20 way too early:

    Celtics
    Heat
    Raptors
    Pacers
    Mavs

    As ephus used to say, it’s a great time to be a Knicks fan!

  119. Honestly I think we prob get swept or at most last 5 games against any of the top 3 seeds. I honestly might rather play the Nets early before they get their chemistry together. But those teams are playoff-tested whereas all our guys are just babies. But it’ll be a good experience regardless.

    I really like the way they’ve structured the play-in. For some reason I thought it was 7v10 and 8v9 and single elimination for 9 and 10, double elimination for 7 and 8, but it seems 7 plays 8 and 9 plays 10. If 7 wins, they’re the 7 seed and 8 goes on to play the winner of 9 and 10. If they lose then 8 is the 7th seed and 7 plays the winner of 9 and 10. So it IS double elimination for seeds 7/8 and single elimination for 9/10.

  120. Frank makes good points. My first reply was “no one has ever done what he’s suggesting”, but at the same time very few NBA players make us much money as Zion has already. Most of them need that second contract. And the ones that have made that much money are usually in good situations (LeBron, D Rose, Wade).

    Between the interview and the look on his face at the lottery, I don’t think he’s excited about giving New Orleans 7 years of his career. They’re about to be halfway through his rookie contract and they look like they’re going nowhere.

    I don’t think we’d get him as a free agent after year 5, though. It would probably be a porzingis kind of deal.

  121. If I’m New Orleans I start poking around Bradley Beal or KAT. They have that war chest of picks and have some interesting young pieces. NOP has never been a FA destination, and short of lucking into another top pick, I don’t know that letting Lonzo go in RFA and hoping mid first round picks hit will be enough to keep Zion.

    Griffin did a nice job in extorting picks out of LA and MIL but the next step is the hardest – knowing how to use that draft capital. Is he a slightly more competent Perry/Mills (ie. great at tearing down and doing no harm) or is he going to be Sam Presti?

  122. Frank: I kid you not – this is the list of jerseys my son has – I got them for him because I was SURE there wasn’t any way they would leave their respective teams…

    Odell Beckham
    Jeremy Lin
    Porzingis
    Darnold
    Jamal Adams

    He doesn’t have a single jersey that is current. I won’t do it anymore.

    Oof, that’s rough though I think the Lin one still holds up. But yeah, that’s exactly why I don’t either.

  123. Winning the Zion lottery and then having him bail on competitive grounds should be a sign that the NBA needs to remove the franchise entirely.

    Re: the Athletic article

    Trying to look at it without the bias of hindsight is tough, but it was important to try and put myself in the mindset of what the league and situations were back then.

    I know that The Athletic has a great reputation, but I’m a little confused. How exactly do you absorb the “mindset” of “the league,” 15 years later?

    Oof, that’s rough though I think the Lin one still holds up.

    I agree, but it’s a bit like wearing an I’m With Her t-shirt at any point after November 2016.

  124. They do sell these cool retro NBA jam shirts that I’ve thought about getting but the two players they feature are RJ and Knox or RJ and Obi. If they had an RJ and Randle one, I’d be all about that.

  125. Ringer has an annoying, pointless, stupid, and useless rookie comps article.

    They say IQ’s best comp is Donovan Mitchell.

    You may consider those two comments connected or completely unrelated, as you wish.

  126. ***Winning the Zion lottery and then having him bail on competitive grounds should be a sign that the NBA needs to remove the franchise entirely.***

    Shortly after Katrina, I remember hearing an economist in the radio arguing that they shouldn’t even rebuild New Orleans. That it was an antiquated city, built almost exclusively on the Atlantic slave trade, that served no modern purpose. He said that putting any resources into rebuilding it was a waste of time and money because it would always be prone to disasters.

    (For some reason your comment triggered this memory, so I decided to share it…)

  127. If I’m New Orleans I start poking around Bradley Beal or KAT. They have that war chest of picks and have some interesting young pieces.

    they absolutely should but I doubt they will.

    Griffin is a very overrated GM, IMO. He’ll probably hoard his trove til it’s too late.

  128. And then when Zion leaves, he’ll get bailed out by the NBA again with another #1 pick for whatever draft has an all NBA talent at the top. Dude gets CP3, AD and now Zion and can’t even build a competitive playoff team?

    I guess with CP3 he did get to the WCF that one time. But damn dude you had AD for how many years and got to the second round one time?

    Zion is still young so they’re figuring it out but if he continues to improve and stays healthy, there is no excuse for NO not at least being a playoff team next year.

    He needs to pull the trigger and get that kid some help!

  129. Dude gets CP3, AD and now Zion and can’t even build a competitive playoff team?

    2010-2014 Cleveland Cavaliers (vice president of basketball operations)
    2014-2017 Cleveland Cavaliers (General Manager)
    2019-present New Orleans Pelicans (vice president of basketball operations)

  130. “Overall, Thomas wasn’t the outright, constant disaster that I remembered him being.”

    How he could write that article and end with that…..

    Thomas did a million horrific things and what were his good moves? Lee? He left the franchise worse off than he got it. He was one of the worst GMs ever. Just the Curry trade insures he will live in infamy, to say nothing of his conduct as a boss.

    That was a really triggering piece.

  131. I’m not going to read the Isiah nostalgia article because I lived it. But here is my review of his tenure, 13 years later:

    The good: he got Dolan to spend big and not care about luxury tax, creating the single greatest competitive advantage any team had in the league.

    The bad: he exploited that competitive advantage poorly on the whole. Though he wisely used it to acquire positive assets (Lee, Robinson, Balkman), he blew it on buying over-priced marginal vets.

    The ugly: The Eddy Curry trade was unsurvivable. He bet the house that a 22 year old big would improve and dominate in the paint, and the bet came up bust. Plus the cap hell he put us in. Plus the toxic culture and sexual harassment embarrassment.

    (He didn’t have to be a constant disaster. His bad decisions were disastrous enough.)

  132. it’s weird, win or lose the next two games – it feels like we’ve been in playoff mode for months…like the whole season…

    looks like burks “may” be back tomorrow, that would be nice…no doubt charlotte and atlanta are gonna be more nail biting games…

    going through knicks bleacher report and just saw julius is the eastern conference player of the week – go julius!!!

  133. I’m no Communist but this “let’s destroy football because it’s a free market” bullshit behind the Super League is just astoundingly craven given all the history involved.

    I almost wish it would happen because I feel comfortable that it would have blown up completely, with players not wanting to play for super league teams and fans not wanting to root for them.

    Anyway, hopefully it’s over.

    James Corden actually had a great bit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxvgwvaX_4&t=509s

  134. Most people I have talked to are in favour of Super League, and I find it reasonable too. I mean, there such disparity between superteams and the rest of the league that the spanish league is not very interesting. Either you really redistribute the money between La Liga teams, or you get the superteams their own european competition. This disparity is growing even in the champions league, but the number of teams in it keeps increasing and diluting the competition.

    I am losing interest in football because of all the meaningless games, and it is becoming really hard to keep up with it. The schedule is crazy, with games everyday and lots of different competitions intertwinned. 20 years ago, the league was much more balanced, and the stars were not all on the same teams.

  135. I hope the super league works out.

    UEFA is arguably the most evil organization in the world and anything that helps destroy it would be great for humanity.

  136. UEFA or FIFA? FIFA I hate. This upcoming World Cup is a human rights nightmare.

    And yeah, UEFA is a whatever, kind of in that NCAA bucket maybe, except that no one is working for free. Not a UEFA stan or anything.

    But I don’t know, I am pretty deep into football, watched it all my life, and I don’t know anyone who doesn’t hate this idea.

  137. yeah, you’re right. I quit watching soccer bc of FIFA, not UEFA. But it was so long ago I forgot their stupid acronyms.

  138. I have not talked to a lot of people, but my brothers and my friends seem to agree with the idea of a superleague.

    I guess it also depends on what league you follow. I think the Premier is more evenly balanced, and distribute their earnings more. In this case, you could argue that the top teams are trying to escape from a system that balances the competitions. But in Spain the competition is already very uncompetitive, and I am actually a bit glad that Atletico has joined Barça and Real Madrid at the top lately (even though I am a Barça fan).

  139. speaking of NCAA, the super league is pretty much the same thing that happened when all the
    college universities like Syracuse and Pitt destroyed their conferences to get more money in a super conference.

  140. Iserp – I understand the objection that all these leagues aren’t competitive enough. Bayern has won 8 in a row. Barcelona and Real Madrid win almost every year in Spain unless Atletico slip through (as they will this year looks like.) PSG has a hammerlock in France almost (although they trail Lille by a point at the moment.) Juventus has won 9 in a row although Inter is going to take it this year.

    The Premier League is pretty competitive. Liverpool won its first (Premier League) title last year. Leicester won one. Manchester City, Man U, and Chelsea are competitive as well.

    I don’t know how you solve this issue. Certainly, the attempt to legislate spending have been farcical and the fact that a team like PSG or Man City is essentially a line item on a nation’s balance sheet is strange.

    But I don’t see how the Super League solves the issue. It mostly seems to solve the issue of spiraling player prices.

    I mean, yes, Burnley is never going to win the Prem like the Rays could maybe win in MLB. But I don’t think that’s exactly the point. These are true community institutions and there is a culture which accepts and in fact prizes the David and Goliath dynamic. The way merit and performance works with relegation and promotion and UCL qualification is actually pretty good.

    I don’t know, it’s not happening looks like so moot.

  141. Wishing doesn’t make it so.

    Except in the case of a guilty verdict….

  142. I’m not going to read the Isiah nostalgia article because I lived it. But here is my review of his tenure, 13 years later:

    If he wasn’t Isiah Thomas he could have easily and justifiably been canceled on basketball and non basketball grounds. But the players, league, and James Dolan love him.

  143. The Knicks priority in the off season should be to try to find a star

    Damn, can’t believe I didn’t think of this :(

    Well, the thread was starting to read like Burks, Noel, and Bullock were critical off season decisions. The critical off season decision is going to be whether we use our picks (and/or possibly Mitch) to land a star or move up in the draft. Then we can worry about our high level role players (who I also love).

  144. If I’m New Orleans I start poking around Bradley Beal or KAT.

    IMO KAT’s not going anywhere until he gets a good look at the team next season. The T-Wolves are WAY better than their record this year.

    KAT missed a bunch of games and wasn’t himself for awhile even after he came back.

    Russell missed a bunch of games.

    Edwards is just starting to come into his own and should be a lot better next year.

    They have some tradeable assets for an upgrade.

    They are going to get a high lottery pick.

    That team could make a quick turnaround next year if they focus on defense and stay healthy.

  145. Well, the thread was starting to read like Burks, Noel, and Bullock were critical off season decisions.

    Noel will almost certainly be a great value for a long-term deal. I could care less about Burks and Bullock.

  146. Noel will almost certainly be a great value for a long-term deal. I could care less about Burks and Bullock.

    We need some guys like Bullock and Burks, even if it’s not exactly them. Jowles, would you want to have Mitch and Noel long-term, or would you use Mitch in a trade if you locked down Noel?

  147. @ShamsCharania
    Nets say James Harden experienced a setback while conducting on-court rehab on Monday and will be out indefinitely with hamstring strain.

    JerrySeinfeldThatsAShameDotGif

  148. I hope the Knick splay the Nets in the playoffs. It’s even money Harden and Durant will be hurt and Kyrie will be AWOL.

  149. Noel will almost certainly be a great value for a long-term deal. I could care less about Burks and Bullock.

    I think this is backwards. I love what Noel has done and he’s definitely better than a lot of the cheap bigs available every offseason…but there are cheap bigs available every offseason. We also have Mitch.

    Burks and Bullock are wings with skillsets all teams are looking for at all times. Burks’ ability to soak up usage at league average-ish efficiency and shoot the lights out at high volume isn’t exactly easy to find. Bullock can’t carry the same level of usage, but he’s a very good shooter, and unlike Burks, can excel defensively against a variety of assignments.

    I’m not saying they’re irreplaceable, but I am saying it’d be easier to replace Noel, and replacing them may be harder than you think. The list of players who do what they do at the salaries they currently get is not long.

  150. I don’t follow college ball, let alone women’s college ball, but a recent Times feature suggests a hypothetical: Would Chelsea Dungee be an upgrade at point guard.

  151. Deeefense: T-Wolves … They are going to get a high lottery pick.

    Don’t be so sure, their pick is only Top3 protected. If it falls out of the Top3, the Warriors will say “thank you very much for your tanking effort” and reap the benefits. I still don’t know if they’re tanking on purpose, because there’s a 59.8% chance the pick conveys to GSW !? :O

  152. I think we should keep one of Burks/Bullock, and though Burks is the better player, I’d suggest Bullock. His effort is much more consistent – Burks likes being the 4th quarter guy, and a lot of the time in the first 3 quarters he doesn’t look fully engaged. Bullock is more limited, and thus probably cheaper, but also more consistent and reliable. We need someone who does what Burks does but is significantly better, and it’s worth paying for that player.

    I don’t know if we can retain both Noel and Mitch long term. We should probably bring Noel back, but it will take a multi-year commitment. We may need to decide on the fly and make a mid-seadon trade depending on what Mitch shows.

  153. cybersoze: Don’t be so sure, their pick is only Top3 protected. If it falls out of the Top3, the Warriors will say “thank you very much for your tanking effort” and reap the benefits. I still don’t know if they’re tanking on purpose, because there’s a 59.8% chance the pick conveys to GSW !? :O

    That could change things a bit, but I still think they are going to be WAY better next year if they can stay healthy and make a couple of additions to help the defense.

  154. One problem with Mitch is that “IF” they were contemplating signing Noel long term and using Mitch in a trade for a star, with Mitch being hurt so often it may hurt his value (especially a big man with a foot issue). I really wish he could come back for the playoffs for a variety of reasons.

  155. thenoblefacehumper: and replacing them may be harder than you think.

    I’m with Noble on this one. We tend to be very cavalier here about churning through personnel, but our last Burks and Bullock were Trier and Dotson. I’m not sure that worked out so great.

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