Knicks Morning News (2017.03.23)

  • [NYPost] Knicks and Porzingis blitzed by Jazz’s monster big man
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:30:00 PM)

    SALT LAKE CITY — Knicks coach and Jazz legend Jeff Hornacek badly wanted to spoil his old team’s 20-year reunion party with a victory, and it looked like his current team might pull it off. Then Rudy Gobert happened. Hornacek’s club rocked the Jazz for nearly three quarters before their patented fourth-quarter collapse, combined with…

  • [NYPost] Knicks rookie gets shot despite sandwich gift to Clippers fans
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 5:55:18 PM)

    SALT LAKE CITY — Knicks rookie center Marshall Plumlee thrilled Clippers fans at Staples Center on Monday night. Bricking two free throws with 1:09 left earned them free chicken sandwiches under a fourth-quarter fast-food promotion. It wasn’t the first time the 7-foot, 250-pound Plumlee pulled an oh-fer. In the first quarter, he barreled to the…

  • [NYPost] Triangle is here to stay, which means Knicks’ core may not be
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:47:16 AM)

    SALT LAKE CITY – Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek sounded clear about the team’s offensive system for next training camp, but unclear on whether the club’s current Big 3 will be there to run it, saying it’s “something we’re going to really look at.’’ Hornacek, back in Utah, where a 20th anniversary reunion of his 1996-97…

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: Resting Stars May Dim N.B.A.’s Marquee, but It Helps the Players
    (Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:10:38 AM)

    A mass benching helped the Warriors shake off a losing streak, and many credit Gregg Popovich’s strategy of holding out Tim Duncan with extending his career.

  • [NYTimes] Chris Paul’s Fast Hands and Gruesome Fingers
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:15:02 PM)

    Paul, the Clippers’ ball-hawking guard, has paid a price — multiple injuries to his fingers — for collecting more steals than any other active N.B.A. player.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks unable to hold off Jazz and center Rudy Gobert
    (Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:01:20 AM)

    SALT LAKE CITY — Jeff Hornacek said he was going to start shortening minutes and give younger players more of a look. But he was trying to win this game on the court he called home seven seasons.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek says Knicks are all in on the triangle next season
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:56:43 PM)

    SALT LAKE CITY — Jeff Hornacek made it clear that the Knicks will be running the triangle offense exclusively from the beginning of training camp next season, and they want players who fit the system and buy into it.

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: Jennings explains why Knicks were not a good fit
    (Thursday, March 23, 2017 5:01:52 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: Jennings explains why Knicks were not a good fit

  • [ESPN] Hornacek: Knicks to run ‘full triangle’ in ’17-18
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:53:23 PM)

    Hornacek: Knicks to run ‘full triangle’ in ’17-18

  • [ESPN] NBA Rumor Central: Time to reduce Melo’s minutes?
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:30:13 PM)

    NBA Rumor Central: Time to reduce Melo’s minutes?

  • [NYDN] Brandon Jennings opens up about what went wrong with Knicks
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:20:41 PM)

    For Brandon Jennings, playing for the Knicks was a dream seven years in the making

  • [NYDN] Knicks ruin Hornacek’s night in Utah with loss to Jazz
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:24:40 PM)

    Hornacek wasn’t thinking lottery picks and minute restrictions on this night.

  • [NYDN] Hornacek says Knicks need full commitment to triangle next season
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:42:16 PM)

    You’re either in Phil Jackson’s “Triangle of Trust” next season or you’re not.

  • [NYDN] Charles Oakley on Knicks’ triangle offense: ‘It’s really easy’
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:56:36 PM)

    Charles Oakley says the triangle offense isn’t advanced geometry, but the operative word is “try.”

  • [SNY Knicks] Gobert, Jazz send Knicks to third straight loss
    (Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:53:09 AM)

    Rudy Gobert scored a career-high 35 points and grabbed 13 rebounds, and the Utah Jazz rallied from 13 down to defeat the New York Knicks 108-101 on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hornacek unsure if Triangle can work with current roster
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 3:35:18 PM)

    Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek said he isn’t sure whether the current roster can work within the Triangle and get the team to the playoffs next season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo had minutes dialed back against Clippers
    (Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:20:25 PM)

    Knicks F Carmelo Anthony sat out the entire fourth quarter on Monday night during the team’s loss to the Clippers in Los Angeles.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    75 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.03.23)”

    1. if the knicks drop to pick 4 or 5 in the draft…does our draft strategy change? Would we still take Frank/Smith that early? Or go with Tatum/Jackson? I can’t bring myself to think that we would draft Fox as much as I love him. ..

    2. Didn’t watch the game last night — too late for my old bones. But I did see from the boxscore that it was the KP at 5 starting lineup. How did he look? I see we scored 34 in the first quarter, so presumably that 1st unit offense was good.

      Did the team play mostly triangle?

      Like Jared Dubin keeps saying on his podcast and on twitter, the Knicks problem is not and really has rarely been the Triangle or whatever system they are running. It’s their defense. Utah has the #3 defense in the league and we had a 115.5 offensive rating last night.

    3. so much for purposefully tanking and seeing what the young guys can do. starters played 32-36 min each and overall minute distribution didn’t look so different than usual.

    4. In the past few years one of the things that annoy me the most is watching iso-melo.

      Then yesterday I had the opportunity to watch live on TV the 36 y.o version of iso-joe and it gave me a little bit of inner peace.

      It could be way worse.

    5. geehee – fultz is probably decently above the pack but the rest of the top 7 guys are all about even and probably would be top 3 in any other draft..

      so yes fox/smith/ball would depend on what you want in your pg… and passing on tatum/jackson would be pretty easy if one of them was on the board in any spot after #1…

    6. Frank, we were very efficient in the first quarter while Hayward couldn’t make a shot. We looked good actually for the first three quarters and led for practically the entire game before gravity caught up with us near the end. Rose injured his ankle, returned, and then left again so I’d expect not to see him for awhile. KP is looking much more comfortable out there and I’m expecting a big leap from him next year if not sooner. Baker actually looked very good out there and I can see him in a prototypical triangle PG role in future years. He made some outside shots too which was good to see. Randle played very little, looked lost and was benched quickly. Willy had a meh game dealing with Gobert who is a beast. Near the end of the game I did enjoy seeing KP roll off a PnR, receive the ball and take it to the basket, dunking with authority over a trailing Gobert.

    7. I thought Ron Baker looked terrible and overmatched every time he touched the ball. He tries to drive to the basket with his defender squarely in front of him at all times.

      The biggest issue with the Knicks is nobody is ever in position to stop second chances. We give up the 2nd most offensive rebounds in the league. It’s horrible. KP is a big problem there with his inside defense. He often gets caught ball watching and that allows for the penetrating guard to lure him in and either miss a shot for the big to clean up or to just dish it to the big with a full head of steam. I understand why he has that problem; playing against Derrick Rose in practice means the point guard often makes the wrong decision or the right decision too slowly. When Derrick Rose runs the P&P with KP, he doesn’t pass the ball until the defenders have set their momentum (after they shut his drive down) and can drive back to KP with forward momentum (as opposed to having to stop chasing Rose and start pursuing KP). He makes that pass a moment too late all the time and it leaves KP to take contested 3 point jumpers off the catch when he should have some more separation there considering the speed of his release.

      Derrick Rose has been terrible for the development of Kristaps Porzingis offensively and defensively. He never passes him the ball, and in the rare moments he does pass him the ball it’s usually too late for him to do anything positive with it. Defensively, Rose always gets beat which leaves KP to defend the rim/foul, and when they’re trying to funnel the ball handler, KP’s tendency is to ball watch which leaves his man unattended to.

      I don’t think there is a fix for this defense this off season. We’ll likely continue to be bad defensively next year unless KP can break out of all of the bad habits he picked up this year. Rose or not, KP is not fundamentally sound on that end yet.

    8. Kurt Rambis really has to go in favor of somebody who can actually coach a defense. We need to sell out immediately and focus on KP’s development because he’s not being prioritized right now. The priorities in New York are Melo/Rose’s feelings and then “we need to run the triangle more.” It doesn’t seem to me like anybody actually cares about putting Kristaps Porzingis in better position to tear teams to bits the way he should be doing on both ends. With that said, the offense has been better this year than it should be considering how none of our big guns are actually efficient players. We don’t have a physical advantage we can consistently build an offense around. Well, we do. Rose is a usually unstoppable penetrator but his basketball IQ is clearly so low that he doesn’t know what to do with it.

      Bottom line I guess is we need better coaching and better players. Mostly better players, but Rambis sucks.

    9. I don’t blame KP for many of the second chances team’s are getting against us in the paint because its a problem all of our big men have. The reason why is simply because opposing guards are able to penetrate our perimeter defense at will forcing our bigs over to help while opposing big men can come in and receive Kobe assists. Golbert’s night was a perfect example of that dynamic.

    10. Kurt Rambis really has to go in favor of somebody who can actually coach a defense. We need to sell out immediately and focus on KP’s development because he’s not being prioritized right now. The priorities in New York are Melo/Rose’s feelings and then “we need to run the triangle more.”

      I’ve been saying this ever since Fisher was hired. Why not, if the triangle is going to be the way and especially now that we have a KP, Bill Cartwright over Rambis? I think he would be a tremendous fit on the coaching staff. And as an added bonus, there would be no extra distraction with him on the staff like it is with Rambis.

    11. To be clear, Jennings didn’t call out Anthony or any specific player. He was speaking in general terms about New York’s selfish play. But Jennings was clear about who the Knicks should focus on moving forward – young big men Porzingis and Willy Hernangomez.

      “That’s who they should build a team around, those two,” Jennings said.” That’s just my personal opinion because they’re very young, they’re very good. I mean, Willy, in a couple years, he’s going to be probably one of the best big men. He reminds me of Marc Gasol.

    12. Boxing out is a lost art and this is another big reason we give up so many second chances. Willy and Plumlee may be the only ones who even do it. Kyle too.

    13. I do agree that the guards breaking down so easily against penetration leads to second chance baskets.
      Baker does a decent job there, better than Rose does or Jennings did. This is one area where Fox could help us right away. Maybe Frank too.

    14. The Cavs should have acquired Melo when they had the chance. It’s all about choices in life you know.

    15. I realize part of the problem with KP’s defense is that our guards (specifically Rose) allow a lot of penetration, but that’s a big part of the NBA game now. There are a LOT of elite athletic PGs that can penetrate on just about anyone. Rose does it to the opposition all the time too. You have to make good decisions about when to help and not get lost staring at the ball handler.

      KP often gets sucked badly out of position even when the guard hasn’t fully penetrated inside. That leaves guys like Gobert to dunk lobs and get offensive rebounds that he dunks right back. Freaking offensively challenged Rudy Gobert looked like a superstar on offense last night scoring 35 points.

      Secondly, no more excuses. KP sucks on the boards. He flat out sucks. He NEVER gets a rebound in traffic. It either comes right to him by accident or he doesn’t get it. Even Jeff Van Gundy who seems to be a big fan of his and thinks the 5 is his best position was calling him out for his rebounding. He said it was becoming a huge defensive liability because even when we got a great stop he couldn’t secure a rebound. He stands around, doesn’t even try to get into position, and even when it comes into his area by accident, he’s not aggressive. I saw one play where he and Holiday were both in position to get a rebound, but KP had the better spot. Neither saw the other. Holiday jumped and took it away from him. A skinny SG out-rebounded him.

      He has a lot to work on in the offseason, but rebounding and defending the paint correctly are 2 musts. There’s no way he can be the 5 playing as weakly as he does now. Who cares if he a good shot blocker at times when he’s giving up so much more the rest of the time.

      All that said, he’s looks a lot better on offense even though he still takes some shots before he’s set.

    16. there is no way Kurt Rambis should be on our staff next year….. BUT

      he will be because PHIL has a semi boner for him

    17. btw have the Knicks been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet?

      We are 8 games behind Miami for the 8th spot with 11 games to go.

      By the end of this road trip we will be.

    18. Strat, rebounds per 36 in second NBA season

      Dirk (age 21) 6.5
      Bargs (age 22) 5.6
      Zing (age 21) 8.0

      He’s not a good rebounder, and it’s likely he’ll never be a good rebounder, but it’s not a stretch to imagine Porzingis being average when he physically matures.

    19. @20

      Holiday and Lance Thomas were pulling boards away from KP. It was good the Knicks got the rebound but why is a 7’2 center, in good position, nit able to put jump/reach a wing? Also, there were tons of times last night where the wings and guards played good defense contested the shot were KP didn’t have to help but was still bullied on the boards by Gobert and Witney. Maybe KP is a skinny Marc Gasol.

    20. Jokic is something else

      I just want to remind everyone that a professional head coach in the NBA had this guy on the bench for 14 games early in the season.

    21. I think rebounding effort is a conscious decision for KP – and I don’t mean that in a good way. When we got manhandled by OKC earlier in the year, he responded with a bunch of double-doubles, then sort of trailed off again. I think he can be a good rebounder but it has to be foremost in his mind, as opposed to guys like Tristan Thompson etc. who seem to be born to rebound and search the ball out. As such, I don’t think he’ll ever be – on balance- anything more than average.

      That’s why pairing him with a great rebounding stretch 4 would be so great. In this draft, that’d be someone like Jonathan Isaac or Caleb Swanigan.

    22. I realize part of the problem with KP’s defense is that our guards (specifically Rose) allow a lot of penetration, but that’s a big part of the NBA game now

      KP leads the NBA in field goals defended at the rim. And its for good reason. His guards play matador defense worse than any back court in the NBA.

    23. KP is not a tragically bad rebounder but he is bad.

      He’s always fumbling the ball and his rebounds are usually uncontested.

      He will have occasionally a streak of 10+ rebs games just because he’s 7’3 and around the basket.

      But I don’t know others cases of bad rebounders that became good at it, so unfortunately we will have to live with that.

      Pairing him with players like Rolo and Nene who are not necessarely good rebounders but are very good at boxing out seems to me like the ideal situation for him.

    24. KP leads the NBA in field goals defended at the rim. And its for good reason. His guards play matador defense worse than any back court in the NBA.

      People keep pointing to that stat. I watch every single game and pay very close attention to him. All he ever does is get torched either helping out or because he’s out of position helping out. Whatever that stat is measuring, it’s not reflecting his defense correctly. It must only be measuring the shots right at the basket where he tends to get his blocks.

    25. Strat, rebounds per 36 in second NBA season

      Dirk (age 21) 6.5
      Bargs (age 22) 5.6
      Zing (age 21) 8.0

      I would argue that one of the reasons Dallas used to struggle when Dirk played C was that he wasn’t a good enough rebounder at C even when he matured. To play the 5 ,you have to get better than Dirk became. Bargs? He’s the standard for what we don’t want KP to become.

    26. I think KP will wind being at least a decent rebounder. Right now, he has to help too much but he often leaves his man to help when it’s not necessary or when he’s too far away to make a difference anyway. Also, when he switches on the perimeter he can be lazy about getting back to his man once the ball is swung or a shot goes up. Finally, and most obviously, way too often he just tips the ball rather than grabbing it with both hands. All that stuff is correctable- he competes enough to think that once (or if) he gets stronger he’ll be okay.

    27. @27 Frank,

      I remember reading an interview with Dennis Rodman.

      The way some players work on their 3 point shot, watch film and look at stats for the guy they will be defending etc… that’s how he approached rebounding. He watched film to learn where the ball usually goes when it’s shot from different areas on the court. He worked on boxing out. He worked on anticipation once the ball was in the air. Then on top of that he knew it was a big part of his job so he put all his energy into it while on the court.

      I’m not expecting that kind of commitment from KP when it comes to rebounding because he does so much else well. As a fan though, I find myself cursing at the TV when the Knicks play great defense, the shot goes up, and he’s ridiculously out of position or just stares at the ball and makes no effort at all. It kills me when some skinny guard gets a rebound that was clearly his for the taking if he any clue at all and made some effort.

    28. I’m much less sour on KP than some of you seem to be. I still wonder if his endurance is part of his issue. He seems gassed at times, and maybe his anemia is a bit more of a problem than publicized? Perhaps that will be a problem for him throughout his career? But 8 rebounds per 36 is really not that bad for a guy who still has a fair amount of filling out to do.

      Like so many things about him, I’d like to see how he defends with at least competent D from the PG and wings. It has to be very frustrating for him to be in there with the guards (esp. Rose, and BJ while he was here) getting beaten time after time. He’s competitive, maybe to a fault, and thus tries to help all the time and stop penetrators.

      If he can just try to go straight up more and try to change shots more than reach in or swipe down and try to block them.

    29. My point is that even though he’s had a disappointing year as a rebounder he’s better than players with a roughly similar game were at the same age. Yeah, it would be good to find some + rebounders at other positions, but it’s not time to hit the panic button just yet.

    30. fgs defended at the rim is a difficult stat to gauge…. part of that stat is team dependent but also there’s a part that’s on the individual and either can be good or bad… it could be that ppl are challenging him because they aren’t really afraid much like how ppl used to treat shawn bradley… or it could be bad perimeter defense also…

      i don’t think kp’s rebounding is a huge issue but it is worrisome… the good part is that he’s established that he can be a solid rebounder… 9.3 per 36 is good but it could also be the rolo effect at play there…. if it trends downwards again then it’s a distinct possibility that he might be taking the brook lopez path instead of the chris bosh/dirk path and that would be a huge disappointment to say the least…

      and the list of guys who were able to improve greatly on poor reb #s is basically dirk and garnett… and the guys who have been able to be good despite poor reb #s is wallace, bosh and smits…. kp is very similar to alot of those guys… and smits is starting to look like a solid comp… so it’s not the end of the world but there’s also a whole list of guys like bargs, olynyk, kaminsky, anderson, eddy curry, radmanovic that’s a bit terrifying to look at….

    31. I thought Ron Baker looked terrible and overmatched every time he touched the ball. He tries to drive to the basket with his defender squarely in front of him at all times.

      He often looks like he has a 50/50 chance of scoring on unguarded drives to the basket, that’s how bad he looks on offense most of the time.

    32. People keep pointing to that stat. I watch every single game and pay very close attention to him. All he ever does is get torched either helping out or because he’s out of position helping out. Whatever that stat is measuring, it’s not reflecting his defense correctly. It must only be measuring the shots right at the basket where he tends to get his blocks.

      That stat comes from Sportvu – it’s something like FG% on any shot within 5 feet of the rim when he’s within 5 feet of the rim also.

      Re: Baker – he needs to work on a floater because he cannot finish at the rim. Of course even if he does develop a floater, it’s hard to imagine him ever being better than a fringe rotation player.

      Re: KP – there are guys that are born rebounders, and guys who watch the ball until falls into their hands by accident. KP is just way closer to the latter end of the spectrum than the former. If he wasn’t 7’3″ with a 50 foot wingspan he’d probably be Bargnani-level, honestly. He has more competitiveness than Bargnani but just doesn’t have the instincts.

      In comparison, check out this scouting profile on Caleb Swanigan at the Ringer.

    33. How shitty is it that the beginning of this season I could talk myself into Rose because at least it meant no more triangle and now, I can talk myself into the triangle because at least it means no more Rose.

    34. Hubert
      February 28, 2017 at 12:10 pm
      >With the coming schedule, the Knicks conceivably could go on a run, perhaps winning as many
      >as 8 of 11 games. Knicks could be 32-38 in short order
      > The schedule favors them winning more games.

      Ten out of 13 on the road. OK, one of those road games is in Brooklyn, but one of the home games is v Golden State.

      I am thinking 3-10 is possible.

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2017-02-28/

      3-8 with Portland and San Antonio up next. Living up to expectations. It’s a pity 2 of the 3 were vs Orlando.

      I’m confident we don’t breach 30 wins. That could get us in the top 4.

    35. Posting & Toasting had a good post about how the triangle has become our new CAA — an octopus that gets its tentacles into every person and decision in the franchise for reasons that have nothing to do with what’s best for the team. It’s so depressing. Why are we constantly a slave to this shit?

      Never mind. I know the answer. He’s 5’5″, wears a fedora, and thinks he’s a rock star.

    36. “I thought Ron Baker looked terrible and overmatched every time he touched the ball. He tries to drive to the basket with his defender squarely in front of him at all times.

      He often looks like he has a 50/50 chance of scoring on unguarded drives to the basket, that’s how bad he looks on offense most of the time.”

      I think that’s unfair to a rookie who plays hard defense, is unselfish and plays his heart out.

    37. it could be that ppl are challenging him because they aren’t really afraid much like how ppl used to treat shawn bradley… or it could be bad perimeter defense also…

      Which is dumb since he’s has one of the lowest DFGA in the league.

    38. Posting & Toasting had a good post about how the triangle has become our new CAA — an octopus that gets its tentacles into every person and decision in the franchise for reasons that have nothing to do with what’s best for the team. It’s so depressing. Why are we constantly a slave to this shit?

      Never mind. I know the answer. He’s 5’5?, wears a fedora, and thinks he’s a rock star.

      I get the point, but I think it’s more that Jackson is shitty at roster construction and not the Triangle itself. Back when Jackson was running the Triangle and actually had competent people running the front office, the Bulls and Lakers were good at adding players despite knowing that they were going to play the Triangle. It’s not the Triangle so much as it is that Jackson makes terrible decisions on free agents and trades.

      I am no Triangle fan, but you can win with the Triangle. You just need to get good players.

    39. @46 Because Phil has kept all of our draft picks we are now in a position to get those players.
      When was the last time that that happened?

    40. @48

      Ha! Dolan would give his right and left testicle, his first-born kid, Porzingis, and 7 draft picks for 1/8 of Bruno Mars’ career.

    41. @45

      Brian, the crux of the P&T article wasn’t so much that the triangle is an unworkable offensive system (although it’s looking like it may be unworkable in the modern NBA without Hall of Fame players). The issue is more than it’s this ever-present monster that’s constantly threatening the integrity of the organization, just like CAA was.

      Hornacek clearly doesn’t love the triangle, or he would have run it in Phoenix and at the start of the year. And yet there he was yesterday announcing that the team will be running it exclusively next year. Why?? Players hate it, the coach doesn’t like it, opponents say it’s predictable, and it hurts our defense because they never practice against real NBA offenses, just the fucking triangle. There is only one reason why we keep going back to the triangle, and that is Phil’s fetish. The triangle has superceded winning on the list of franchise priorities. Just like pleasing CAA superceded winning a few years ago.

    42. Golden state runs less pick and roll than any team in the NBA and they have a terrific defense, despite practicing against a fairly unique offense similar to the triangle. And their players don’t bitch about it. The triangle doesn’t really matter.

    43. The one thing we’ve all seen definitively in Phil’s tenure is that the triangle is not a cure-all. If we get good talent in then we can start to evaluate whether it’s holding us back, but for now all we can say is that (no surprise) the triangle isn’t going to take a bad team and make it good. But I’m not sure Phil knows that yet.

      And because he doesn’t know it the triangle continues to be a public distraction. Like are there other franchises out there announcing this week what they’re going be running on offense next year? It just seems unnecessary to me. Even if we make the internal decision to run more of it on offense next season is there any reason to be discussing that before training camp? But as long as Phil continues to portray it as the holy grail it’s going to be an ongoing issue.

    44. I’m with DRed on all this triangle talk. Get good players for whatever system you want to run. Make sure to have guys who are at least willing defenders, unlike Rose and Melo.

      Maybe all of this public triangle talk is to continue to goad Melo to waive his NTC. Reports are that Phil very much wants to trade him.

    45. I don’t think much of Joe Flynn as a writer. His analysis isn’t very incisive and that article is no exception.

    46. I have no opinion on Flynn generally, but that article captured my frustration. I think it’s outrageous and absurd that Hornacek is being forced to run the triangle all of next year. Phil’s obsession with this goddamn offense is undermining the team, the coach, and Phil himself.

    47. Yeah, I do agree that while I don’t care much either way about the Triangle, it is kind of weird to hire a guy who doesn’t want to run the Triangle, say “he doesn’t have to run the Triangle,” then say, “Okay, never mind, you do have to run the Triangle.” It’s all kind of douchey.

    48. This Shaq flat-earth story is hilarious to me. It can’t feel good to pretend to believe something incredibly dumb only to find out that literally everybody finds it 100% plausible that you would believe that. Doesn’t say much for how you’re viewed normally.

    49. It’s really dumb because athletes who’ve been on hundreds of plane rides should be able to see the curvature of the earth from their window.

    50. @58
      Tell that to Kyrie!

      Part of me would like to believe that Kyrie is just trying to con Richard Branson to giving him a free ride into space to convince him that the world is, indeed, round. Maybe they can pair him up with Stephen Hawking?
      :-)

    51. The problem is that I think it’s impossible to separate Phil Jackson’s penchant for acquiring bad players with his obsession with running the triangle. As best I can tell, he acquires bad players because he either perceives them to be market inefficiencies that the triangle can “fix,” or perhaps more likely, he just has no idea whatsoever about player evaluation and acquires players based on how well he thinks their play style is suited for the triangle.

      So yeah, hypothetically we’d probably be fine with good players with the triangle but who knows if that’s even possible?

    52. The problem is that I think it’s impossible to separate Phil Jackson’s penchant for acquiring bad players with his obsession with running the triangle. As best I can tell, he acquires bad players because he either perceives them to be market inefficiencies that the triangle can “fix,” or perhaps more likely, he just has no idea whatsoever about player evaluation and acquires players based on how well he thinks their play style is suited for the triangle.

      in all honesty – prior to this season and really tuning in to this site – i never really looked at much beyond a basic box score…looking at usage % and asst % – you would have thought that would have been a big red flag thinking rose was your answer at point guard…

      my concern now is that phil absolutely hates stats…kinda like guitar jimmy – words mean more to them than anything…if you can dazzle them with the brilliance of nice words or baffle with some bullshit – they go all in hook, line and sinker…no matter what insight statistical analysis may illustrate contrary to whatever the last conversation was they had…

    53. Rose, Lance, and Melo sitting tonight

      I guess we’re winning tonight then.

    54. Phil’s real problem is that he has no fucking patience. The problem isn’t the triangle, the problem is the “win now” mentality. He moved Chandler, who still had value, and got no real long-term assets in that trade. The main piece Phil was all excited to get for Chandler was “perfect triangle PG” Jose Calderon. He moved JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, two guys who ended up being legit contributors to a championship team, and got no long-term assets for them either.

      The following offseason, instead of being clever and renting out his useless cap space to collect assets, he signed stopgap guys like Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams. Granted, it would have been an out-of-the-box type move to do the “rent out the cap space” gambit. Still, would have been nice to pick up a draft pick or two instead of investing in Afflalo and Williams. He was able to convert one of the young players on the roster, Tim Hardaway Jr., into another young player, Jerian Grant. Then he converted Jerian Grant into exactly nothing, because he felt the need to make the “win now” move of acquiring Derrick Rose. And in acquiring Rose, he created a hole at center, which he filled by giving out a godawful contract to another “win now” player, Joakim Noah.

      The Phil apologists will point to the fact that he hasn’t traded a first round pick, and that he hasn’t made that many “win now” moves, but it’s the moves he DIDN’T make that are the problem. He should have been in asset collection mode all this time. Instead he has been trying and failing to win basketball games, so we’re still asset-starved. Luckily he has been so bad at building “win now” teams that we have actually ended up with two high lottery picks after seasons where the team was supposed to contend for the playoffs. That’s like Phil’s hidden silver lining: he’s so bad he’s actually kind of good. He’s like “The Room.”

    55. Phil’s real problem is that he has no fucking patience. The problem isn’t the triangle, the problem is the “win now” mentality. He moved Chandler, who still had value, and got no real long-term assets in that trade. The main piece Phil was all excited to get for Chandler was “perfect triangle PG” Jose Calderon. He moved JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, two guys who ended up being legit contributors to a championship team, and got no long-term assets for them either.

      The following offseason, instead of being clever and renting out his useless cap space to collect assets, he signed stopgap guys like Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams. Granted, it would have been an out-of-the-box type move to do the “rent out the cap space” gambit. Still, would have been nice to pick up a draft pick or two instead of investing in Afflalo and Williams. He was able to convert one of the young players on the roster, Tim Hardaway Jr., into another young player, Jerian Grant. Then he converted Jerian Grant into exactly nothing, because he felt the need to make the “win now” move of acquiring Derrick Rose. And in acquiring Rose, he created a hole at center, which he filled by giving out a godawful contract to another “win now” player, Joakim Noah.

      The Phil apologists will point to the fact that he hasn’t traded a first round pick, and that he hasn’t made that many “win now” moves, but it’s the moves he DIDN’T make that are the problem. He should have been in asset collection mode all this time. Instead he has been trying and failing to win basketball games, so we’re still asset-starved. Luckily he has been so bad at building “win now” teams that we have actually ended up with two high lottery picks after seasons where the team was supposed to contend for the playoffs. That’s like Phil’s hidden silver lining: he’s so bad he’s actually kind of good. He’s like “The Room.”

      In general, you know I agree with you, but one nitpick. He got a second rounder in the Shump/JR trade. It was little return, but something.

    56. When you factor in current salaries Lance was the best player involved in that deal. Heck, I’d rather have Lance than JR period. Maybe Shump too.

    57. That’s like Phil’s hidden silver lining: he’s so bad he’s actually kind of good. He’s like “The Room.”

      Great post, but I don’t think that’s fair to The Room, which I have seen in theaters multiple times and own on DVD. I even have my own copy of The Disaster Artist (signed by Greg Sestero, although I didn’t know that when I bought it used).

      I wish this team were half as interesting as The Room. I would pay good money to see it in theaters, but I decided to stay home rather than ride the 20 minutes to Moda Center to watch Jokic’s shittier ex-backup blow them out.

    58. JK47 that post was beautiful.

      and JR Smith is definitely a + player in today’s league. Lance Thomas??? maybe…??
      edit- didn’t see you mentioned salaries. but jr smith’s contract at the time was fine

      btw was the espn article “tinderazation of nba” posted on these boards recently? interesting article

    59. When you factor in current salaries Lance was the best player involved in that deal. Heck, I’d rather have Lance than JR period. Maybe Shump too.

      They cut Lance as soon as they got him, so I don’t think you can count Lance as a return in that trade.

    60. I got to see “The Room” several times when it used to play as a midnight movie at the Sunset Laemmle 5. Tommy used to come to every screening and it would always sell out at all five theaters. He would do a Q&A before the screenings and even toss the football around with the fans a little. They don’t do it there anymore, the local monthly LA screening is at UCLA now and it’s a lot less wild and not quite as fun.

      I love showing “The Room” to somebody who has never seen it. The reaction is always amazing.

    61. Also, the movie version of “The Disaster Artist,” with James Franco directing and starring as Tommy Wiseau, is making the festival rounds now and is getting rapturous responses. Some Hollywood insider types are even saying it might be an Oscar contender, which is rare for a comedy.

      I wouldn’t even know what to do with myself if that movie won the Best Picture Oscar and Tommy got to get up on stage. That would be pretty much the high point of my life.

    62. Yeah I saw the room for like the fifth time in NY at film forum (or was it another indie theater?) with a sold out crowd and the cast in attendance

      Funnest time I’ve ever had at a movie theater, truly wild.

    63. I want to meet Tommy so badly

      ruruland is to Carmelo as THCJ is to Tommy W.

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