Knicks Morning News (2017.02.07)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks struggle on boards, blown out at home against Lakers
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 10:15:41 PM)

    The New York Knicks trailed by as many as 27 points in a 121-107 loss to the Los Angeles Lakers at home on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Cavaliers refute report that LeBron is pushing Anthony-Love deal
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 8:55:41 PM)

    The Cleveland Cavaliers are reportedly refuting a report that says LeBron James is pushing for a trade that would bring New York Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony to Cleveland in exchange for Kevin Love.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks vs. Lakers
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 5:51:42 PM)

    The New York Knicks face the Los Angeles Lakers on Monday at Madison Square Garden at 7 p.m. ET.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose in, Noah out for Monday’s Knicks-Lakers matchup
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 5:23:46 PM)

    Derrick Rose will return from a four-game absence while Joakim Noah is out due to a hamstring injury when the New York Knicks face the Los Angeles Lakers on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] 3 questions facing Knicks: Rose’s future, uncertainty at center, Lee’s productivity
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 11:30:53 AM)

    SNY.tv’s Keith Schlosser takes a look at Derrick Rose’s future with the Knicks, the uncertainty at center, and Courtney Lee’s recent productivity.

  • [NYTimes] Lakers 121, Knicks 107: Pounded by Lowly Lakers, Knicks Fall Further From Playoff Field
    (Tuesday, February 07, 2017 5:08:42 AM)

    The Knicks fell behind Los Angeles, one of the N.B.A.’s worst teams, by 27 points in the first half en route to their fourth loss in five games.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Frustrated? Yes, but the Raptors Aren’t Panicking
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 4:59:39 PM)

    Injuries and mounting losses have conspired to throw Toronto’s aspirations as a contender in the N.B.A.’s Eastern Conference into some doubt.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. This Week: Wizards Host Cavaliers in the Streaky East
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 8:02:12 PM)

    LeBron James’s Cavaliers are still kings of the East despite win streaks by the Celtics, the Wizards, the Pacers and the Heat.

  • [NYTimes] Cavaliers 140, Wizards 135, Overtime: LeBron James Hits Stunning 3 to Force Overtime in Cavaliers’ Win
    (Tuesday, February 07, 2017 3:49:47 AM)

    James’s turnaround 3-pointer tied the score with 0.3 seconds left in regulation, and the Cavaliers went on to beat the Wizards in the extra period.

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Brandon Jennings: ‘That’s the worst we’ve ever looked all season’
    (Tuesday, February 07, 2017 4:48:15 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Brandon Jennings: ‘That’s the worst we’ve ever looked all season’

  • [ESPN] Knicks lament lack of pride after loss to Lakers
    (Tuesday, February 07, 2017 12:30:39 AM)

    Knicks lament lack of pride after loss to Lakers

  • [ESPN] Cavs steadfast on Love: ‘Not going anywhere’
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 7:54:44 PM)

    Cavs steadfast on Love: ‘Not going anywhere’

  • [ESPN] Rose returns for Knicks; Noah out vs. Lakers
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 6:35:06 PM)

    Rose returns for Knicks; Noah out vs. Lakers

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson still giving advice to coach candidate who got away
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 8:27:30 PM)

    Luke Walton’s first full-time head coaching job with the Lakers has not found the same success as the little interim appointment he had with the Warriors last year. Of course, Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson and Draymond Green kind of helped that substitute job along. But with a roster laden with young and learning Lakers,…

  • [NYPost] Time for Jeff Hornacek to take responsibility for Knicks disaster
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 7:59:24 PM)

    As fans were making their way out of the Garden following yet another ugly Knicks loss, a salesman was trying to unload the last of his Knicks gear for the night. “Get your hats, shirts and foam fingers,” he said to no one in particular. A passing young man, who looked to be about 10…

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah has problems of his own to worry about
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 7:49:27 PM)

    Joakim Noah doesn’t want to hear anything about a rebuild or a move of Carmelo Anthony. Noah has his own health issues to worry about now that he has a recurrence of a strained left hamstring that kept him out of four preseason games. Noah, who missed Monday’s game, a 121-107 blowout loss to the…

  • [NYPost] LeBron slams ‘trash’ report that he’s pulling strings for Carmelo
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 6:50:56 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony stood by his locker, all dressed, when reporters were let in. That’s only shocking because he usually is dead last to speak — the media sometimes waiting upward of an hour. Though he blamed it on his son waiting for him, Anthony clearly couldn’t wait to leave the Knicks locker room after their…

  • [NYPost] Is the Knicks’ slow play messing with Kristaps Porzingis?
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 5:56:37 PM)

    For yet another game, Kristaps Porzingis was an extraordinarily mortal and lethargic 7-foot-3 Latvian. The face of the Knicks’ future again wore a shiner and a painted-on mustache. He shot a less-than-pedestrian 5-of-14 from the floor, scoring 16 points — 11 in the fourth quarter when the game had long since been decided. So he…

  • [NYPost] Hornacek blasts lifeless Knicks as rock bottom looks nasty
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 4:42:47 PM)

    Who knew the Knicks’ rock bottom would be the color of purple and gold? Meanwhile, Jeff Hornacek was seeing red — fuming on the court and in the postgame press conference. One source told The Post Hornacek asked if the players don’t want to play for the coaches any longer, at least to play for…

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah makes pitch for Carmelo with playoffs in sight
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 4:20:51 PM)

    Joakim Noah doesn’t want to hear anything about a rebuild or a move of Carmelo Anthony. Noah has his own health issues to worry about now that he has a recurrence of a strained left hamstring that kept him out of four preseason games. Noah, who missed Monday’s game, said the club can’t contemplate the…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ injuries don’t expose health crisis — they expose Phil Jackson
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 4:01:23 PM)

    When Jeff Hornacek assesses his starting lineup, the Knicks coach says he doesn’t want to make changes yet. Too often, the quintet has been broken up by minor injuries. Since Dec. 7, the lineup hasn’t been intact for 19-of-31 games, including Monday’s match against the Lakers, which center Joakim Noah missed with a left hamstring…

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks hit bottom with blowout loss to Lakers at Garden
    (Tuesday, February 07, 2017 12:33:42 AM)

    The way the Knicks have been playing, you can’t blame Carmelo Anthony if he waives his no-trade clause or blame management if it chooses to explore shaking up the team.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis a bit slow to get involved vs. Lakers
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 11:19:59 PM)

    The date was Dec. 11, 2016.

  • [NY Newsday] Sidelined Joakim Noah believes Knicks can reach playoffs
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 10:09:46 PM)

    Joakim Noah believes the Knicks can make a playoff run and doesn’t think management should be thinking about rebuilding yet.

  • [NYDN] LeBron pushing Cavs to get Carmelo even if trade includes Love
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 9:00:32 PM)

    Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony apparently do have something in common: LeBron James as an ally.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson silent after Knicks embarrassed by Lakers, 121-107
    (Monday, February 06, 2017 6:25:07 PM)

    On “The Night The Knicks Quit,” the crowd booed the effort, Carmelo Anthony left the locker room much faster than usual.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    267 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.02.07)”

    1. In a game where we were crushed on the boards, Willy had 13 to lead both teams in just 24 minutes of play. He should be starting.

    2. This from Porzingis is what a lot on this board have been mentioning, about him being “frozen out of the offense”:

      Early on, he said, he was “just not feeling like involved and not being in rhythm. I have to do a better job of picking the spots where I want to attack and picking the right moment when I need to attack. I think at the end I was just more involved and a lot of times the ball was moving through me and kind of playing a little more movement. I think that’s the type of game I’m better at — faster paced, just moving the ball more around.”

      There were a lot of post-game comments about no effort, defense, getting behind early. It’s been gallows humour around here to be down double digits in the first. So it is not a new thing. Unfortunately, no one can or will put their money where their moutn is. O’Quinn is the guy who got benched in the second. To me it seems Rose is just playing for the next contract. That comes through in his quotes about his health, and probably talking about defense and hoping no one pays attention to see if he actually does., As for Melo, he has good intentions, or so it seems, but there is no glory in defense nor any stats so it seems as though he feels that as long as he scores he is doing his part. Those two set the tone. The ball is primarily in their hands on offense and they are the most minimalist of defenders among the starting unit. Sometimes it seems KP follows their lead. The play that Horaneck “smashed the clipboard on” is one from last night that jumps to mind. Sigh.

    3. C mon Ras, you know he’s terrible, Theo said so. You know, fat, unskilled, slow…you’re just citing numbers like they mean something. Rebounds, plus/minus, TS% – just a bunch of smoke to hide the fact that Willy’s ceiling is Jerome James.

    4. I don’t think Horns is going anywhere. If anything I think Phil got religion on tanking and is going to give him a team of young players to mold. It’s been obvious how much better the ball movement is with the kids + Jennings, so imagine a real point guard with that kind of motion offense and you have the beginnings of a good team.

      If he’s fired, prepare for a host of lateral moves that reveal there is no awareness of what an opportunity this draft represents for the future of the franchise.

    5. I think there’s the basis for a good coach for Hornacek, I just think he’s got the wrong personnel to do a lot of the things he wants. His Jerry Sloan type offense could never be run by a point guard like Derrick Rose and our team cannot play at the speed he wants because of Melo’s antics where he slows down the offense in the halfcourt. You can clearly see a better team on the floor when the rooks and back up players are together in the 4th without some of the starters.

    6. Melo must go. It’s time. I hope that when the Clippers leave the Garden Wednesday night that he’s on their airplane.

    7. The Tank is strong.

      Trade deadline is 2/23/17. I think we are very likely to go 0-5 between now and then, with games against the Clippers, Denver, SA, Oklahoma City, and Cleveland. So we’ll be 22-36 and probably 4 games minimum out of the 8th seed (and closer to prime lottery position).

      I have been a loyal member of Team Optimism (actually Team “Delusional”) at least up until the last few weeks. It is time to blow this thing up.

      Phil is an absolute embarrassment — not just because his moves have sucked. It’s the no media availability since September. What a freaking loser. How can you expect players to be accountable to each other when the top 3 guys (Dolan/Phil/Mills) are all MIA.

    8. Phil is an absolute embarrassment — not just because his moves have sucked. It’s the no media availability since September. What a freaking loser. How can you expect players to be accountable to each other when the top 3 guys (Dolan/Phil/Mills) are all MIA.

      I think we need to wait until the Melo trade is finished before we kill Phil for not talking to the media. There are a lot of things he probably doesn’t want to say to the media between now and then in order to make sure that deal isn’t ruined by using his own words against him. If he continues to keep quiet after the deadline then I will sign off on your criticism.

    9. I feel another “open letter” to Phil coming on.

      It was actually to Dolan =)

      Open letter to Phil asking for his dismissal probably wouldn’t be very effective.

      I think we need to wait until the Melo trade is finished before we kill Phil for not talking to the media. There are a lot of things he probably doesn’t want to say to the media between now and then in order to make sure that deal isn’t ruined by using his own words against him. If he continues to keep quiet after the deadline then I will sign off on your criticism.

      lol the face/leader of the franchise can’t be trusted to talk to the media because he can’t risk his usual pissing people off when he opens his mouth. perfect!

    10. Phil Jackson is totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team. He deserves to be fired: just signing Rose and Noah is grounds for immediate termination.

      Why should any person with an ounce of brains believe Phil can fix the mess he created?

    11. Not sure what we’re doing tho with our lineups. Let’s try things! Like a lineup Jennings-Baker-Lee-Melo-Willy with Rose as the 6th man and strange things all around. And let’s rest KP. His game is cringeworthy as of now.

    12. lol the face/leader of the franchise can’t be trusted to talk to the media because he can’t risk his usual pissing people off when he opens his mouth. perfect!

      Its not even about that. There is obviously a lot going on behind the scenes with this Melo situation. By not talking it keeps the media blowback to a minimum. This isn’t an easy situation to finesse. The last thing Phil needs is to make a statement that can be posted and blown up to mean something its not. I am sure Phil has zero problem telling the media that he thinks Melo is washed up, but what good does that do him when he’s trying to move Melo for Love?

    13. The worst part of being a Knicks fan in the last years (save for Unwanted Tank season 14-15) is that around 40 games in, the team starts to collapse. It’s curious how this has become an integral pattern to this organization, no matter who’s playing.

    14. Why should any person with an ounce of brains believe Phil can fix the mess he created?

      Because he at least realizes the problem and is trying to solve it by getting rid of Melo. I swear, Knicks fans are really some of the most bipolar motherfuckers in the NBA fandom. For months you guys have complained about how Melo should be gotten rid of, how it will never happen, how we will get nothing for him, etc. When you finally have a GM who is willing to do it for the best deal possible in the face of major media scrutiny you want to fire him. And why? Because he isn’t talking to the media while doing it.

    15. The worst part of being a Knicks fan in the last years (save for Unwanted Tank season 14-15) is that around 40 games in, the team starts to collapse. It’s curious how this is become an integral pattern to this organization, no matter who’s playing.

      Its what happens when you have a poorly constructed team. The rest of the league has seen you and exploits your weakness.

    16. Boo birds are out in full flight today!

      How about dem lakers, they looked pretty good. Gotta give em credit. What’s the average age of their rotation?

    17. When you finally have a GM who is willing to do it in the face of major media scrutiny you want to fire him.

      Wait, we have no definite proof of that. Let’s wait for things to really happen. For what we know, Phil might be trying to deal Melo to get back Cousins.

    18. I’m fine with giving Jackson the chance to fix his fuck-up. But yes, until we see what he does, I don’t think anyone truly knows what he’s going to do.

    19. I say it here:

      Wilty Chambergomez is no better than Cole Aldrich: some regular here grows enamored with them, produces some skewed stats and the usual followers immediately lose control of their imagination. Next thing you know, he is a great player.

      What happened to Cole Aldrich? What’s the explanation?

      Chambergomez is a VERY slow, fat player who can’t play much defense. His ceiling is career backup / nba journeyman.

      I know…I know…remember how I was also wrong when I said this is a terrible team? Remember how I said this team was at best a 37-win squad?

      Reality is good, guys. Thinking is good. Try it sometimes.

    20. Wait, we have no definite proof of that. Let’s wait for things to really happen. For what we know, Phil might be trying to deal Melo to get back Cousins.

      Jesus, if you’re going to raise conjecture at least give me some based on some of the available facts. Melo has a NTC. Phil leaked the teams Melo would accept a trade with to the media. Sacramento was not one. Reports around the league have Phil looking for Love from Cleveland and a deal with the Clippers that doesn’t include Jamal Crawford.

    21. Reality is good, guys. Thinking is good. Try it sometimes.

      Say it looking in the mirror, it might do wonders for you :)

    22. @21

      Ras, I’m not saying it’s not like you think. I say there’s no absolute indication that Phil is really wanting to tear down this team. We have speculations, rumors, and whatever. It’s true I don’t have faith in Phil anymore, but I’m trying to be objective. As soon as I see a move in the direction of self-aware rebuilding/tanking, I’ll be firmly in your camp.

    23. In a pg heavy draft, what if we drafted our own version of Johny Flynn?
      With our disgruntled superstar, what if we do something like kg and ray allen to Boston to join pierce?
      Well just what ifs.

    24. Let’s recap:

      1) Phil trades Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton for a horrible pu pu platter of crap. Full disclosure- I was ok with the trade at the time. Extra disclosure – I was not aware that we could have gotten Jae Crowder instead of the 50th pick in the draft – a player that had already shown that he was an actual NBA rotation player. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but that’s what you get paid $12MM to anticipate.

      2) Phil thought he had a playoff team in year 1. It turned into the worst season in Knicks history. Tiny golf claps for him realizing it by February and tanking, but really, you couldn’t have gotten more for Iman Shumpert and JR Smith than a 2nd round pick?

      3) Phil gets credit for Willy and KP. Nice 2014 draft.

      4) Phil gives Melo a NTC. Makes semi-reasonable FA pickups, although wasting cap space for Afflalo and Derrick Williams was dumb. Phil = trying to skip steps again.

      5) Team sucks again.

      6) Phil doesn’t bother buying a 2nd round pick to draft Z-man’s favorite player Kay Felder. Unforgivable and SAD!

      7) Phil makes Derrick Rose trade. Obviously I was in the “wait-and-see” Rose camp, but yet another mistake by Phil.

      8) Team super-sucks again.

      3 years. Unlikely to reach the 37 win threshold of 2013-14–> the season that was so unacceptable it actually got Phil hired. 100% responsible for all the players on the team. Continues to be obsessed with the Triangle and BFF Kurt Rambis.

      in any walk of life, a performance like this would result in dismissal. he deserved some slack because of his coaching history, but it’s pretty obvious he’s just not a good front office guy. He’s shown that he likes to skip steps. Honestly I’d rather hire Hinkie at this point.

    25. Phil is part of the problem, much more so than Melo. He must be fired before he does more damage.

      If we go by his track history as GM, odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Jackson just blundering his next few moves.

    26. Forgot about the Lance Thomas contract.

      I don’t think it’s bad.
      Lance has been hurt this year, which is hardly his fault. But he’s a great teammate, a good defender, and has made a remarkable improvement in his shooting (no matter how ugly it looks). He’s a very reasonable player for what will be ~5% of the cap.

      And I didn’t even mention the Joakim Noah contract in my rant. That was maybe the worst contract in the NBA the second it was signed.

    27. I agree that Phil has done a mediocre job. But I want to see if the man can redeem himself at this deadline. If he can’t, I won’t be sad to see him gone at the end of April.

    28. I disagree with the notion that Lance is a good defender. He’s at best an average defender.

    29. Wilty Chambergomez is no better than Cole Aldrich: some regular here grows enamored with them, produces some skewed stats and the usual followers immediately lose control of their imagination. Next thing you know, he is a great player.

      Let’s test your hypothesis. We should use empirical data to see if an assertion is founded in factual basis or just someone’s bullshit subjective interpretation. Here are what the metrics respectively say about Willy and Aldrich in their rookie seasons at the same age of 22.

      WS 1.7, 0.2
      WS/48 .118, 0.66
      TS% .569, .537
      TRB% 20.3, 14.4
      AST% 10.3, 4.0
      STL% 1.2, 1.8
      BLK% 2.7, 3.6
      TOV% 17.2, 32.3
      USG% 19.1, 7.9

      As anyone with half a brain can see, one player is clearly not like the other. Willy is clearly the superior rebounder and offensive player, while Aldrich is a low usage defense type. So please, Theo, at least try to stop embarrassing yourself any further here and remit from repeating bullshit as if it were fact. Thanks.

    30. I disagree with the notion that Lance is a good defender. He’s at best an average defender.

      maybe so – but spending time criticizing his contract seems a waste given there are so many much larger transgressions.

    31. Lance is not a big issue, it sucks that he has a 4-year contract but honestly, with the CBA he’ll be getting the equivalent of pennies… and he helps us reach the cap floor if Phil does commit to a full, Philadelphia rebuild.

      he’s just a roster spot and some dead cap when we don’t really have a lot of need for both.

      I’m willing to wait until the deadline ends to judge Phil; if he doesn’t trade Melo until then I’ll be very displeased, but he still has the chance to turn around what was frankly a very bad year so far.

    32. @23

      Trading Mel0 = a rebuild. It doesn’t matter how you want to slice it. Phil knows that the future lies with the younger players he’s drafted and acquired.

    33. I get wanting to wait and see what Phil does, but what has he done that makes you think he would be a good architect of a real rebuild?

      He’s drafted reasonably well, but how did Morey/Hinkie and others like them engineer their rebuilds? By constantly making good deals using every tool in what the CBA allows. I just don’t think this front office has shown any ability to be innovative or to think further than a half-season ahead. And Phil is just a terrible negotiator on contracts and trades. For Pete’s sake, hire a real negotiator/general manager, and then hire Clarence Gaines as VP of player personnel.

    34. I’d be ok with Lance as a situational 10 minutes player. I’m not ok with Lance as the first wing out of the bench.

    35. @33 Thank you for posting the data. I don’t know when this board became a bunch of “hot take” machines, saying x is better than y, and not even backing it up with any sources.

      Willy Hernangomez is Cole Aldrich because reasons!
      Carmelo Anthony is better than Kevin Love because I said so!

    36. @25

      So let’s recap the same list of complaints from the fandom who want Phil gone. We should have Jae Crowder for Chandler, we should have gotten something more for Shumpert/Smith even though no one has a clue what we should have gotten, Afflalo/Williams were a waste of cap space, Felder (lol), Derek Rose signing, Lance, Sasha.

      Not one of these moves has crippled this team forward. Not one. Compare it to his ability to identify young talent in Hernangomez and KP.

      You want to know the biggest reason this team has struggled worse than the one Phil inherited? Its simple. Melo was a .172 WS/48 player when Phil took over, he is now a .109 WS/48 player.

    37. He’s drafted reasonably well

      I’ve taken major issue with people underplaying Phil’s draft in the past to argue against him and I will do so again. This is a gross understatement. Phil has drafted amazingly well in the only draft he had major draft capital in. We got KP, Grant and Hernangomez to have the best 2015 draft. If you’re going to shit all over him for signing Lance Thomas to an insignificant deal you should at least note that he hit a grandslam in the draft.

    38. I get wanting to wait and see what Phil does, but what has he done that makes you think he would be a good architect of a real rebuild?

      The only real rebuild moves he’s made so far have been good, so let’s hope that a real rebuild would be like that and not his awful “contend” moves.

      He probably WILL fuck it up, but since I don’t see Dolan hiring anyone any better, I’d still give Jackson a shot to learn from his many, many mistakes.

    39. Yeah I’m remaining optimistic that we are at the least going to draft a young PG to pair with KP and Willy. Beyond that? I have no clue what he’s going to do.

    40. I don’t know when this board became a bunch of “hot take” machines, saying x is better than y, and not even backing it up with any sources.

      The only thing necessary for the triumph of stupidity on a stats-oriented sports blog is for empirical men to do nothing.

    41. LOL, now that you really look at the metrics you can really see how moronic Theo’s comparison looks. How any sane or objective basketball fan would confuse two players is beyond me. They are so different I might as well compare Willy to Marshall Plumlee and say they are the same player. I must say, this doesn’t bode well for Theo’s future as an evaluator of talent. For future reference I will just assume the opposite of his opinion is the case whenever a player is evaluated.

    42. Fuck it, I am going there just to double down on Slick Willy.

      Embiid: WS 2.0, WS/48 .122
      Slick Willy: WS 1.7, WS/48 .118

      Come at me, bruh.

    43. Phil has done a couple thinns well but most things badly. Really the only things he has done right are using his existing draft capital and not trading draft picks away. He’s signed terrible contracts, made pretty bad trades, and made uninspired FA moves at best (and in Noah’s case, much worse than that). And while his Fa signings haven’t necessarily set the team’s future too far back, in today’s NBA if you’re not moving forward by winning (even 1 playoff series appearance maybe?) or building for the future by collecting assets then you are doing the exact wrong thing. If you think what he’s done is “mediocre” then I think your expectations are too low.

      Again, I’m not saying that I knew this in advance, although many here did. But he gets paid to be right. Or at least somewhere in the same galaxy as “right”.

      He needs to go.

    44. Willy’s good but then you look at their BPMs and realize that Embiid has a 3.8 BPM despite averaging 5.4 turnovers per 36 (that’s insane!)

      Willy is the 2nd best rookie though I’m pretty sure.

    45. Phil has made some good moves and bad moves, but the good news is that he hasn’t made any disastrous moves. It will be extremely easy to recover and turn this ship around by next year.

      1. Tank the season (that’s happening now whether we are trying to or not)
      2. Draft well in the lottery (preferably a PG)
      3. Trade Melo for some combination of expiring contracts, a relatively young player, and draft picks and use any cap space wisely next year
      4. Use the Rose cap space wisely

      I see no reason we can’t be in a position of having 3-4 very good young players with upside and several good players still in the 20s playing significant minutes going into next season.

      The problem I have is that I don’t think he “values” talent well. That’s why the trades have been bad. It’s one thing to make a skill set list and try to fit players together like a coach would. It’s another to know how much value each player adds and is worth in monetary terms.

    46. I’m gonna step out and say this:
      Maybe we should keep Melo. I just don’t think Phil will be able to get a worthwhile return for him. He’s still worth a good package even at his diminished value, I just don’t trust Phil enough to get a good deal done. Maybe the better option is to package Rose and KOQ together, and start Willy over Noah going forward while playing all 3 remaining centers more consistently. Once Lance comes back, he and Kuz should make up the main forward backup tandem with Lance playing more backup 4.

    47. Wilty Chambergomez is the new Cole Aldrich: low talent players made into great finds byvthe febrile imagination of gullible fans.

      Where is Cole Aldrich today?

      That’s where slow, fat and poor defender Chambergomez will be when the current euphoria subsides and reality sets in.

      No skewed, meaningless stats from garbage time against garbage teams are necessary.

    48. Willy is the 2nd best rookie though I’m pretty sure.

      And its not even close according to the metrics. But Theo, the great talent scout, isn’t impressed…so….

      LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    49. Maybe we should keep Melo. I just don’t think Phil will be able to get a worthwhile return for him.

      Only acceptable solution is to keep him to trade in the offseason. Any other course of action is flat out wrong. Melo is regressing at an insane pace. If he continues at this rate going into next year he won’t even be a + .100 WS/48 type player.

    50. keeping Melo means trying to win-now every season from now until the end of his contract… that’s a disaster and clearly the wrong choice.

      Id also be pissed if we waited until the summer to trade him unless there are literally zero offers before the deadline. His value is free falling and there will be another 30 games or so of terrible data to scare people away from him.

      I am a bit scared that without him the team will be better and make a very knicksian mini-run that will cost us lottery position, but so be it, this era needs to end as soon as possible.

    51. Id also be pissed if we waited until the summer to trade him unless there are literally zero offers before the deadline. His value is free falling and there will be another 30 games or so of terrible data to scare people away from him.

      Besides the worry of Melo maybe changing his mind, I agree that I find it hard to believe that anyone will offer better terms when they will be getting Melo for only one postseason versus now, when they will be getting Melo for two postseasons. The only reason you ever would trade for Melo is because of the postseason (where some teams might believe him to still be a difference-maker).

    52. Id also be pissed if we waited until the summer to trade him unless there are literally zero offers before the deadline. His value is free falling and there will be another 30 games or so of terrible data to scare people away from him.

      Only reason to keep Melo is if one believes the Cavs would cave in and trade Love for him. The Clippers are going to be open for a trade regardless if its at the deadline or offseason. They’re now about to be 6th in the Western Conference and sinking. I have them projected to go around 2-6 of their next 8 games before Chris Paul has a chance of returning from injury. Rivers is a lot more desperate than people are recognizing.

    53. I do kinda agree with you Derrick & Bruno, so I’m actually torn. Melo’s value is fading, but maybe not as fast as one might believe. If there is a good return haul for Melo out there, Phill should and could have already traded him. Or maybe his asking price is too steep. It just feels more and more like we are stuck with Melo…and Noah, despite Phil’s “determination” to move the former.

    54. I miss reub’s Jerian Grant updates. Why did he stop? He’s now shooting 35% from 3, sporting a 54TS and WS/48 of .9. He’s starting to play like those 7 games as a Knick when he started. Hoiberg finally figured out he’s the best 1 guard on the team and is giving him regular minutes as a starter. And Robin’s playing much better as well. How horrible have the Rose trade and Noah signing turned out? We could have flipped Lopez to Thibs for maybe Rubio or Tyus. The only way to turn a lemon into a lemonade is to look at it this way: if we had kept Grant and Lopez we might not be a lottery team so maybe if we tank hard and draft a difference maker this all works out over the long term. Phil needs to really go to work before the deadline and this summer to rescue this team and his reputation.

    55. Notice how the same people who just a few days ago were insisting the Clippers were forced to trade for Melo, that Phil Jackson had all the leverage, that LeBron wanted Melo, that the Celtics were ready to give up that Brooklyn pick, etc. are now quietly hoping for an off-season trade.

      Good bad old Theo told them the truth, but they can’t deal with intelligent, rational analysis.

    56. Notice how the same poster who embarrassed himself comparing the 2nd best rookie in the 2016-17 draft class to Cole Aldrich now wants to put words in people’s keyboards with the same dramatic license he evaluates basketball talent with. He must have hurt feelings after another, smarter poster called his bluff and exposed his tomfoolery through a simple fact check exercise. But the smarter poster doesn’t mind such pettiness as he savors the passive agressive butthurt posts from his embarrassed interlocutor.

    57. If there is a good return haul for Melo out there, Phill should and could have already traded him.

      What’s the rush? Phil doesn’t have to do anything until the deadline and there’s plenty that can happen in his favor until then with LAC.

    58. The “second best rookie in the 2016-17 draft” (according to a single deluded, gullible fan in the entire world – nobody else) can’t even get starter minutes in one of the worst NBA teams…lol…

    59. The only way to turn a lemon into a lemonade is to look at it this way: if we had kept Grant and Lopez we might not be a lottery team so maybe if we tank hard and draft a difference maker this all works out over the long term. Phil needs to really go to work before the deadline and this summer to rescue this team and his reputation.

      I agree, that is the best way to look at that terrible trade which was made to make one more run with Melo.

    60. @64 probably Baltimore still? I remember interviews with her saying that she did not wish to become an “employee” of her son.

      what I say about trading Melo asap means before the deadline. There’s no real reason to trade him before the deadline unless a great deal comes up, and I still think Phil is asking for superstar value out of Melo, which is a good strategy for now, but should not be the way to go in the last couple of days before the deadline.

      the NTC pretty much makes it impossible that the Knicks will get better value in the offseason… since Melo literally won’t accept anything other than Cavs or Clippers or maybe, maybe Boston, there’s nothing those teams would be able to offer in the summer of 2017 that they can’t offer now, and they would be getting one less postseason of still-not-totally-done-but-about-to-be Melo.

    61. I’m honestly curious about who are the best 5 rookies for Theo right now.

      It’s like asking what are the 5 best colors.

    62. Seeing the way the team played last night and the way the coaches reacted to it both during the halftime interview and after the game – I think it’s becoming pretty obvious that the team is quitting on Horny and the coaches know it. I think that forces Phil’s hand to a certain extent. I don’t think doing nothing is really going to be a viable option. The environment around the team definitely seems to be getting toxic and you can see in Porzingis’ comments that it’s affecting everyone. I think either Melo has to go (not because he’s specifically the one causing the problem but because it’s the only viable way to really shake up the core of the roster.) or Horny does. And I really don’t think Phil is going to want to fire another coach so quickly. Going to be an interesting couple weeks that’s for sure.

    63. the NTC pretty much makes it impossible that the Knicks will get better value in the offseason… since Melo literally won’t accept anything other than Cavs or Clippers or maybe, maybe Boston, there’s nothing those teams would be able to offer in the summer of 2017 that they can’t offer now, and they would be getting one less postseason of still-not-totally-done-but-about-to-be Melo.

      What if Lebron forces the Cavs front office to trade for Melo after losing to the Warriors?

    64. @71

      I agree. But we also want the team to give up. This is what tanking is all about.

    65. @64 probably Baltimore still?

      I was wondering if perhaps that would make the Wizards a more attractive place if she was still living there. Probably not. Melo at the 4 with Wall, Beal and Porter would be pretty formidable. But I guess they might actually like Morris more.

    66. The “second best rookie in the 2016-17 draft” (according to a single deluded, gullible fan in the entire world – nobody else) can’t even get starter minutes in one of the worst NBA teams…lol…

      “The Knicks are an utterly incompetent, woeful franchise that will always be bad and anyone who suggests otherwise is a fool and knave. Their minute allocation is perfectly optimal, though.”

    67. What happened to Cole Aldrich? What’s the explanation?

      He played well for the Clippers and made himself 20 million dollars.

    68. @75

      That was such a desperate try by Theo to twist logic into pretzels it wasn’t worth the direct rebuttal.

    69. Anybody else been reading Theo’s comments in the Dennis Reynolds rage voice?

      Fools! Idiots! Don’t they know I am a golden god?

    70. Keeping Melo makes us a worse team, which is what we want. It also makes the Clippers and maybe the Cavs more desperate. It might not be a bad idea to revisit this in the offseason. And anyways, any team who picks Melo up knows he’s not opting out in 2018 because he won’t get a better deal.

    71. The decision about whether to trade Melo now or the offseason should be based exclusively on what we can get for him now vs what we can get for him then. The offers probably won’t change substantially because of what Bruno said — he’ll only accept a trade to a few teams. The Clippers don’t have much to add to the pot even if they wanted to, the Celtics will be looking to trade for better players, and the Cavs won’t have anything more to offer unless they get blasted by GS and put Love on the table.

      Unless we’re getting back nothing (Crawford and Rivers counts as nothing), Phil should probably pull the trigger now.

    72. If the Knicks don’t trade Melo but continue to suck and be a toxic atmosphere, would Melo opt out in 2018? He won’t get as much money on a new deal, but he may be so sick of this team that he finally says, fuck it I’m out.

    73. Replacing Melo with Rivers and Crawford would make us a lot worse.

      My fear is that they don’t get the same amount of minutes and won’t dominate the team as easily as Melo does. I can see Hornacek telling Rivers and Crawford to sit down, get lost. He can’t do the same to Melo.

    74. Yeah true. I’d try to throw Lee in there and hopefully trade Jennings to make clear some minutes for them.

    75. Melo is always at risk of getting shoulder or knee surgery or something, and losing every bit of value he may have. I say trade him for the first acceptable offer. It’s just too difficult to imagine a situation in which his value goes up as opposed to down.

    76. Melo is always at risk of getting shoulder or knee surgery or something, and losing every bit of value he may have.

      My belief is that Melo would have already been shut down, maybe for shoulder surgery, if there wasn’t the chance of him being traded to a place he wants to play on the table.

    77. I feel so bad for Hornacek. This is Phoenix all over again for him. He’s been nothing but class and stability while steering this dumpster fire of a team and dealing with the media circus of Derrick Rose, Phil Jackson, and Melo. Minutes allocations are wonky but that’s more out of desperation than anything, I think.

      It’d be a mistake to cut bait on him. Especially after coming out in favor of tanking.

    78. The Clippers’ trade would disappoint me supremely. We would have to receive Reddick back in any trade and then we would have to flip him to OKC with Kuz and O’Quinn for their 2017 1st round pick. It would feel like we sold too early.

      Look. Our best shot is on draft night. The Warriors are going to destroy the Cavs in no more than 5 games and then LeBron will be forced to shake it up. If Boston doesn’t want to trade the 2017 pick we can get Phoenix on the line and ask for Bledsoe or their top 3 pick in exchange for Love. If we can’t get Love at the deadline, we’ll get him involved in June.

    79. I don’t think Horny will be fired for his pro-Tank comments. He’s just admitting what Phil as all but indicated via surrogates: this team needs to restart all over again.

    80. we ‘re wishing for reddick…it would be crawford which puts us back cuz we cant re sign holiday…

    81. And, yeah, Horny seems like a really nice guy. Probably way too nice to survive in NYC, especially among the pit of vipers surrounding this franchise. He reminds me of KP. I’d like to see them work together in the future.

    82. I think we may end up sending Melo to the Clips for some sort of a bad deal value-wise.
      And Melo will probably be pretty damn good for LA.

      But I’d still be fine with that. The page needs to be turned. Phil should just try and wrangle a 1st round pick out of someone for it though with no more than a top 3 protection.

    83. Melo is going to be garbage. He already is. He doesn’t play defense, has become more prone to jumpers because he can’t finish at the basket, and will command a high usage rate. I wish him well in the future wars to come but he’s deteriorating fast and he knows it.

    84. yea i have little confidence in phil to make the deal that would favor us… he’ll wait till the deadline and watch his deal go down for milsap or something like that

    85. I always thought Melo might want to play for the Wizards because of his Maryland ties, but I don’t really get why the Wizards are literally ignored as a destination for free agents.

      the franchise is disfunctional but it’s not like they are worse than the Clippers, for example, and D.C. isn’t the worst place in the world to live in… besides, the team has real, young talent.

      My dream would have been to have fleeced Washington for Porter and future picks in a Melo trade, but the NTC, again, destroys all the fun.

    86. Why would Atlanta trade Milsap? They are a top 4 team in the East.

      Because he’s going to walk or they don’t want to resign him.

    87. Melo would be fine in LA. Some portion of his defensive woes are bad coaching and effort. You better believe on a good team with CP3 and Doc all over him, his D would be at least passable.

      And re: his offense – he would be great as a secondary option off an unstoppable PNR. We’ve already seen that story –> 2012-2014 with Tyson. Except this time it’s CP3 and DJ, not fat Ray Felton. (although it could be Fat Ray Felton at the beginning!!)

    88. Because he’s going to walk or they don’t want to resign him.

      I am sure their fans are going to understand.

    89. @1o2

      Tyson was a dude whose value was primarily defensive. He did not demand high usage rates throughout his career or affect the flow of an offense to be run through him. I personally think Melo will continue to be streak as hell beyond what CP3 can squeeze out him.

    90. Tyson was a dude whose value was primarily defensive. He did not demand high usage rates throughout his career or affect the flow of an offense to be run through him. I personally think Melo will continue to be streak as hell beyond what CP3 can squeeze out him

      I think you are nuts.
      That Tyson PNR dive was the basis of the entire offense. He may not have had a high usage, but that’s because defenses completely compromised themselves trying to stop it, opening up stuff all over the floor, including Melo 3’s from the wing and/or his dribble/drive penetration against a moving defense.

    91. I think Phil and Horns are on the same page. Remember, before the season Phil was quoted as saying Porzingis is the cornerstone of the franchise (which doesn’t look as true now, but anyway). He also had been said to be thinking about dealing Melo and keeping the young core plys Lee. Meanwhile, Horns is elliptically referring to tanking. Seems obvious to me that these guys are working toward the same goal: ditching Melo, picking a PG in a stacked draft, building team-oriented ball with that crew.

      Aren’t we all on board with that? Now that Phil has given up on “win-now,” why do you want to ditch him again?

      It’s GOOD that he’s not talking to the media. THERE IS NOTHING TO GAIN BY DOING SO. We will hear from him after the deadline, hopefully explaining the trade in the context of rebuilding. Until then he should keep his cards close to his vest add possible and spread whatever rumors help us get what we want – Melo gone plus a draft pick or two.

    92. Melo greatest value to the Clippers is his spot up shooting. Has an EFG% of 58 on spot up shots which he’ll get a lot of with CP3. Plus CP3 will cut down on his ISO’s which will improve his efficiency.

    93. He may not have had a high usage,

      Therein is the major difference, which you casually brush over. Its not an uncommon mistake as many coaches who have salivated for Melo have also causally disregarded his high usage rates and thought he would just compartmentalize his game to fit into whatever design they created on offense. Melo is a player who whose primary value, and identity as a basketball all-star, is based on his high usage rate (31.5% for his entire career). Its a totally different player situation.

    94. Aren’t we all on board with that? Now that Phil has given up on “win-now,” why do you want to ditch him again?

      I am with you. But some people aren’t happy no matter what happens. Reminds me of the girlfriend who brings up past mistakes after you’ve admitted the current mistake.

    95. The Clippers are definitely the best fit for Carmelo when you consider that he would be the 4th banana, but you gotta believe we can get Love from Cleveland in June after the Cavs get exterminated. I really believe we could flip Love to LAL, Phoenix, and Boston for their 2017 pick and that’s more valuable than anything Doc Rivers could offer us.

    96. but you gotta believe we can get Love from Cleveland in June after the Cavs get exterminated

      I would like to believe this but who knows if that’s possible? I truly hope so.

    97. Aren’t we all on board with that? Now that Phil has given up on “win-now,” why do you want to ditch him again?

      A. I’m fine with giving him the chance to fix his mistakes, mostly because I don’t trust Dolan to get anyone better.
      B. We won’t know if he truly is in for a rebuild until he actually does it and
      C. While I’m fine giving him a chance to fix his mistakes, I don’t think it is at all unreasonable for someone to question the logic of trusting, “Okay, I fucked this up for 3 years but NOW I’ve got the hang of it! Honest!” Not a whole lot of executives get that much leeway.

    98. Theo, how is Willy fat? dude is 6’11, and weighs 240 lbs. Friggen Ron Baker weighs 220. I weigh 225. OK, I”m fat, but Willy is not. Is there an award for silliest comment that you are trying to lock up?

    99. if he truly is in for a rebuild

      He’s trading Melo, he’s in for a rebuild. Just call it what it is. A rebuild.

    100. No one will be happier than me if I’m wrong, but I continue to think we will never get Love for Melo. I know LeBron pulls a lot of strings but even if we assume he’s pushing for such a move (an enormous “if”), I don’t think Griffin is willing to make an objectively terrible decision like that.

      For all of the other LeBron-influenced decisions there was at least a veneer of plausible deniability–none of them were clearly awful. This would be a full concession that LeBron is solely in charge. It’s not happening and I don’t think LeBron even wants it to happen.

    101. He’s trading Melo, he’s in for a rebuild. Just call it what it is. A rebuild.

      All depends on what he is trading Melo for. It certainly sounds like a rebuild, but until it actually happens, we won’t know for sure.

    102. I guess there’s a chance that Melo expands his list of destination teams in the offseason if the Knicks continue to suck, Phil continues to bash him, and the Knicks go into rebuild mode. He might figure a Washington/San Antonio/Lakers/Toronto situation is better than a miserable Knicks situation.

    103. @12o

      I was considering this possibility. Maybe things degenerate so badly he waves the NTC and goes wherever Phil sends him, hoping to have to a big season and opt out.

    104. @Al_Iannazzone

      Courtney Lee apologized to the fans for the Knicks performance last night.

      Courtney Lee also said you can’t blame management if they’re looking to shake things up.

    105. Carmelo, Kuzminskas/O’Quinn, and Jennings for Love and Frye.

      Make it happen Phil!

    106. Taking a look at the remaining schedule and doing a W-L-W-L projection, it looks we’re going to go about 10-17 the rest of the way. That would give us 32 wins, which would give us the 8th-worst record according to the current standings. FiveThirtyEight’s CARMELO rankings have us finishing 8th-worst as well, with 33 wins.

      https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/

      Other teams might be tanking harder than us, though. Sacto lost Gay and is allegedly looking to trade Collison. New Orleans might be trading Jrue. Orlando might be trading Ibaka. Minnesota lost LaVine. So we really need to shed talent just to keep pace in the tank race.

    107. There’s no way Melo gets moved to Cleveland in the off-season. There’d be so many other options for them if they wanted to move Love then- if there aren’t already. Maybe you can close your eyes and imagine that Melo might help you make a run this season (and maybe Love and salaries for a package of KOQ, Jennings and Melo might actually help them) but if they get smoked by GS this year there’s no way they’re going to think that a 33 year old Melo is the best return for Love.

    108. @125

      Dee said that Lebron was essentially bluffing and that Isola’s report was mostly true – Lebron wants to trade to get Melo and would be willing to part with Love to do it. He also said that Melo’s people finally approached Phil and formally acknowledged behind the scenes that its time to force a trade. Dee also said that discussions are ongoing between Cleveland and New York front offices about the whole issue.

    109. I hope that’s true, but Tommy Dee has no credibility. He’s the biggest homer out there. He puts the best possible spin on every piece of news.

      He liked the Bargnani trade. Nuff said.

    110. Until it really happens, every Melo trade rumor is a make-believe to me. I’m still convinced that the most plausible outcome is no Melo trade.

    111. Carmelo, Kuzminskas/O’Quinn, and Jennings for Love and Frye.

      Cle isn’t doing this. LeBron / Kyrie dominate the ball; they surround them w/ guys like Love and Frye who gun from 3. They aren’t going to change their whole style of play.

    112. Yeah Tommy Dee is not reliable at all. The only “insiders” that really know anything are Woj/Charania, Zach Lowe, Windhorst, and Marc Stein, and they’ve been noticeably quiet on anything significant re: the Cavs.

    113. We’ll know that we’re really dealing Melo when Woj will tweet 4-5 times in the same day about details of a Melo trade. Until then, let’s not get carried away.

    114. Tommy beer just tweeted that we’re the second worst team in the league since Christmas. Just need to keep pace with the tank.

    115. Isola at least is a reporter, if not a particularly credible one. Tommy Dee is just some guy with an active twitter account and a podcast. He doesn’t have the faintest idea what’s going on behind the scenes. He just pretends he does so people will post links to his podcast on blogs. You shouldn’t signal boost garbage like that. At least all of us admit our speculation is just that.

    116. Everyone from Lue to Griffin to Love to Lebron vehemently denied that trade last night. I don’t think its a possibility. The Clippers make more sense to be honest. I can definitely see Melo adding additional teams as possible destinations as this stuff is wearing on everybody.

      If we could somehow include the Wolves in a Clippers trade and end up with Rivers, Rubio and a number 1 that would be excellent. We could include or trade some of our other veterans to keep the tankers happy of course.

    117. @82: Melo ain’t leaving money on the table. He’ll somehow explain that he feels the team is not far from contention, but he ain’t leaving that extra goop. He’s already proven that $ + NYC > WINNING. So best to try to trade him now (or maybe the off-season).

    118. Can we please stop talking about Melo for Love? Lue openly laughed and joked about the possibility of trading Love last night. It ain’t happening folks. Melo to Clippers is my only hope.

    119. Just imagine where we would be now without that stupid no trade clause.

      Also, I don’t think we should wait until the offseason. Too much can happen between then and now. Phil should basically be taking any deal he can get at this point without giving up assets.

    120. The main reason I want them to do any Melo deal that’s possible now is that I don’t trust them to not reverse course on it. That is to say, it’s easy to see a scenario where we play a little better towards the end of the season, end up as a 30-35 win team and then management decides that little stretch is evidence that we actually can win now so we don’t trade Melo and instead load up on more Joakim Noah/Derrick Rose moves.

      That is the worst possible scenario and might legitimately make me check out as a fan.

      If we get rid of Melo at least we can feel safe knowing they are committed to rebuilding.

    121. I swear, Knicks fans are really some of the most bipolar motherfuckers in the NBA fandom.

      The single greatest/most accurate post ever written on this blog!

    122. IMO, Tommy Dee is among the worst basketball analysts around. He has no idea how to value players. He doesn’t even know enough to have the debate let alone come to a correct conclusion. He talks all kinds of Xs and Os but at the end of he always seems conclude whoever scores the most is the best player. He still defends the Bargnani trade. He still thinks Melo is an elite superstar. He tells fans what they want to hear. He has no sources.

    123. The only good part about all of the Love/Cavs hype is that it might cause another team to think that there’s demand for Melo and raise their offers. Even if it’s only the Clippers bidding against themselves.

    124. Phil just tweeted this cryptic message:

      “Bleacher’s Ding almost rings the bell, but I learned you don’t change the spot on a leopard with Michael Graham in my CBA daze.”

      It seems that he’s referring to BleacherReports Kevin Ding who just wrote this article about Melo and Phil:

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691601-phil-jackson-knicks-stymied-by-wanting-carmelo-to-be-something-he-is-not

      It seems that Jackson is saying that you can’t change Melo’s spots. That Melo cares more about his “brand” than winning. That “they can’t want for Anthony what he doesn’t want deeply enough for himself. ”

      This is getting good.

    125. Why do you say that? I think that he’s saying that he tried to turn Melo into a team player who is more interested in winning than creating a brand, but that he failed. I also believe that he is trying to force Melo into accepting a trade which most of us believe is necessary.

    126. Brian, the time for a press conference would be after Melo is traded, not before. I think this tweet is meant to “encourage” Melo to agree to leave.

      It’s also a possibility that Phil has struck out in attempts to move Melo due to a lack of interest and this is a last ditch effort to try to get him to change his game.

    127. Melo is the one who doesn’t try at all on defense and doesn’t even hustle back. He’s the one who doesn’t follow the coach’s play calling but instead calls his own number. He’s the one who holds the ball and won’t pass it. Not the GM.

    128. Reub’s making some good posts, today. Yea, Phil’s tweet is pretty dumb, but it’s dumb in a funny way. I also can see what he’s trying to do. I’ll cut him some slack for this.

    129. Phil hired Carmelo. If he did so expecting him to be something different than he turned out to be, Phil made a mistake (a silly one). But he says (via fortune tweetie) he didn’t actually expect any change, because spots. So he got what he expected. Publicly, snidely, obliquely criticizing Melo for being exactly the Leopard Phil expected when he signed him is strange, and also a huge, deflective dick move. Especially when he has nothing to say to Knick fans except when hiding behind his pal bloggy Rosen. If you think antagonizing Melo like this is the best way to get what he wants, you don’t know shit about people.

      I agree that Melo doesn’t hustle on defense, which sometimes makes him hard to root for, but he is a good guy and Phil is a dick.

    130. I just hope that it doesn’t mean that Melo has no trade value and that Phil can’t trade him.

    131. He might be. I don’t know him. But he is not a good guy on the court. He ignores the coach’s plays, won’t pass the ball and won’t try to play defense. He cares about his brand and not about winning.

    132. I want a Melo trade and a rebuild but if I had to choose I would choose Phil gone over Melo. Phil Jackson is toxic and a terrible GM.

    133. Regardless of how you feel about Melo this is a terrible look for a GM. What player would want to come and play for him after all this nonsense?

    134. Never attribute to 4 dimensional chess what you can attribute to vanity and incompetence

    135. @167 What kind of a free agent would want to come to a team where the “star” doesn’t hustle or pass the ball and won’t run the coach’s plays?

    136. Phil might have been able to get away with this crap when he was a coach and when he had great players to back up his bullshit. But in this situation, with the Knicks still a laughingstock 2.5 years into his tenure, he just looks like a complete ass.

    137. Phil’s dumb, but to get that worked up over a tweet – only to call those that don’t feel Phil is a (main) problem “sad sacks” – is wholly unnecessary. Yes, he’s not a good GM. We’ve sucked during his tenure. But guess what? We’ve sucked way before he got here.

    138. So Phil Jackson is saying that the player he’s actively trying to trade has bad habits that will never be changed.

      The guy can’t even let obvious self-interest get in the way of being an ass.

    139. @174 When you can’t win an argument with facts and logic all that’s left is to call names.

    140. Melo, yes. Phil? As the first person in 10+ years that seems to be admitting we need to rebuild, I feel he should get some more time.

    141. He’s sabotaging his own rebuild because he’s such a raging egomaniac he can’t stop himself from sending passive-aggressive mean girl tweets. The guy is a fucking child. He has more Twitter beefs than Azealia Banks.

      Just for once I would love to have a normal GM running this team.

    142. This franchise is incapable of just being normal. Would Pop ever try these mind games? Would a Spur ever go AWOL for a game? Would R.C. Buford ever be found guilty of sexual harassment?

      And these embarrassments don’t even count our long run of on-court ineptitude and mismanagement under Dolan. So sick of it.

    143. Ding and Phil are probably pals from the LA days, which explains why it’s a glorified hit piece that places exactly zero blame on Phil Jackson for the situation. I guess all he did was acquire literally every player on the roster.

    144. Rosen writes hit pieces. Ding writes hit pieces. Phil takes unfair shots.

      Poor Melo.

    145. If the Knicks can’t be good, they might as well be entertaingly bad. And they are that. They’re bad in a so-bad-it’s-good kind of way. This season is pure camp. I’m entertained, I gotta give them that.

    146. It was a douchey move by Phil, but I ultimately don’t think his douchiness really affects the team that much. I really don’t think guys won’t sign here because Phil occasionally sends douchey tweets. If the money spends and the team is decent, players will always come to New York.

    147. Well, even the article, which was knocking Melo big time, acknowledged that the Clippers would be willing to take him, just not for anything but just their spare parts.

    148. I think he’s still tradeable, people are aware of Phi’s antics and won’t give it much credit I think.

      I just hope it’s not some reverse mantra light a fire under him zen bullshit

    149. LOL. I loved the tweet. Funny thing is that I read the article Phil referenced right after it was released and wanted to post it before, but thought no one here would agree with it so I didn’t link it.

      All of this insufferable behavior by Phil only further serves to alienate Melo and keeps him from wanting to stay on this team. Here’s what happened in today’s practice:

      When reporters were let into the gym, Carmelo Anthony was the only Knick not on the court still shooting. Anthony presumably didn’t want to discuss Wednesday’s meeting against the Clippers, who have talked to the Knicks about a deal. Hornacek said Anthony practiced.

    150. Isola on SiriusXM NBA Radio:

      I spoke to people who spoke with LeBron afterwards, as actually he was walking to the bus. And his big thing was, he thought it was like — what would be the word that I’m looking for? — like out of line that the story came out when it did, just right before tip-off, as if somehow that was purposely planned by me as a way to kind of sabotage the Cleveland Cavaliers. Which isn’t the case. I don’t have anything to do with, A, when the story is released or, I don’t think anybody is thinking, “Yeah, this will affect the Cleveland Cavaliers.” And here’s the bottom line: If they had lost last night, to blame it on some story that came out about LeBron would be as absurd as me trying to take credit for them winning last night.

      The question was “a story in the New York Post.” I work for the New York Daily News. So, now I’m going to give LeBron a little bit of an out, thinking that maybe he’s thinking of my buddy there, Marc Berman of the New York Post, and not me. Either way, he was obviously pretty upset last night.

      I’ll tell you what: He didn’t exactly stand there and deny that, that’s what the story is.

      The one thing people have to remember, when you write stories like this, you know what the reaction isn’t going to be. The reaction isn’t going to be from Tyronn Lue, “Actually, we are looking to move Kevin Love. And right now, we actually are talking to LeBron.” And LeBron is not going to say after the game, “Of course. Where have you have guys been. Of course I’m trying to tell management. Carmelo is my buddy. Absolutely, I want them.”

      Everyone is going to deny, deny, deny. And guess what? They should do that. The Cleveland Cavaliers don’t owe me anything. So, they’re not going to protect me in any way. They should be protecting Kevin Love — and they’re obviously going to protect LeBron James at all costs. I knew what the reaction was going to be from them.

      When these kind of stories come out —…

    151. @194 – No wonder no one trusts the media these days. I don’t think this and #fakenews are unrelated.

      Also, maybe this is Phil’s chess-move way of getting Lebron to put up or shut up regarding his relationship with his friend and help make a move to get him to Cleveland and “save him” from Phil.

      That, or Phil’s just a dick.

    152. My only fear is that Phil’s going to be fired for going nuclear. But this is media war he’s created with Melo is beautiful. He’s actually creating a possible outcome few here thought was possible – he’s getting Melo to want to leave NYC.

    153. League sources indicate that both LeBron James & Chris Paul have pushed CLE & LAC respectively to trade for Carmelo Anthony at any cost.— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) February 7, 2017

    154. Trump is just so unprofessional. I don’t know how some of you are condoning this

      Are you equating Trump with Phil? They actually do use Twitter similarly.

    155. Ha! Okay, that makes more sense. :) I’m not condoning it. I agree that it is wildly unprofessional. I just don’t think it matters that much in the end. Yes, he shouldn’t be a douche, but I also don’t think it makes much of a difference when all is said and done.

    156. @199 If you have a guy on your team making $25 mil who won’t hustle, won’t pass and won’t run the plays his coach is calling and he has a no trade contract but doesn’t want to leave then I’m fine with a tweet or two that might move him in the right direction.

    157. we can’t even do bad right…we have to be embarrassingly bad…

      honestly though, no doubt if we can find a way to move melo and rose we’d have a much more enjoyable team to watch, whether they would win more or not…

      sometimes i get the feeling we could have “the militia, L.A. Thunderbirds, the ghost of Steve fuckin’ McQueen, ten fuckin’ Roman gladiators.” and we’d still fuck things up…

    158. Melo’s a big boy. He’s played his games long enough from the moment he forced a trade here to the time he feuded with D’Antoni, to the time he badmouthed Lin’s contract, to the badmouthed the Porzingis pick and then reneged, etc. Its about time someone in the organization called him out on his shit. Now that he has a GM who doesn’t give a f-ck and will tell him what he thinks about his game everyone in the media wants to cry foul. Spare me. Get him out here.

    159. I’m hoping that Lebron takes umbrage at the shoddy treatment he’s getting and reaches out to save him with some Love.

    160. I think it’s obvious that Phil places more value on calling things the way he’s see them in an open way than for lack of a better term, dealing with people in more politically correct way.

      Most people would keep feelings like that inside and go about moving Melo in a more socially acceptable way – like meeting with him and telling him the team wants to move on and build around KP. From there you hope he is willing to wave the NTC clause as long is you can get him to a team that makes some sense. That’s just not Phil. In Phil’s opinion, Melo plays a poor brand of basketball and simply can’t change. That’s nothing that I (and many others) haven’t been saying on a regular basis for years. The only difference being I tell the truth about his game in a small forum and Phil does it front of millions of people.

      I have a bigger problem with the fact that it was a self destructive tweet than I do with him telling the truth. He’s basically saying I’ve finally throw in the towel on Melo. How is that going to get us a better deal? It makes no sense unless he already knows he can’t trade him for a decent package and it doesn’t matter.

    161. Melo screwed up Phil’s plans by failing to turn into Michael Jordan.

      He’s not even Scottie Pippen or Pau Gasol. That’s the part that hurts most. Forget being a generational superstar, Melo wasn’t even a dude who could be part of the solution during Phil’s tenure. Go look at his advanced metrics and then consider how hard it would be to build around a guy who’s averaged .109 WS/48 the past three seasons while being paid a bonanza.

    162. How is that going to get us a better deal? It makes no sense unless he already knows he can’t trade him for a decent package and it doesn’t matter.

      Because this entire scenario isn’t being controlled by the front offices but the players themselves. That’s the dirty secret no one in the NBA wants to really admit. Lebron and Paul are the ones who will force a trade for Melo. And they are already convinced he’s worth trading picks/Love to get him.

    163. Go look at his advanced metrics and then consider how hard it would be to build around a guy who’s averaged .109 WS/48 the past three seasons while being paid a bonanza.

      A lot of us have been saying that since before the trade for him was even consummated. He’s a little better than the typical volume scorer, but his scoring does not add a lot of value because his efficiency is barely above average. Given that’s the best thing he does, exactly how does he being the centerpiece translate into a very good team?

      Melo is supposed to be the 3rd scoring option on a championship caliber team or a 6th man of the year type player. He’s supposed to be somewhat better version of JR Smith or Jamal Crawford.

    164. Honestly- Phil is a bad GM but also, he’s just a jerk. He’s a holier-than-thou arrogant prick that was gifted some of the great rosters the league has ever seen. Yes he was a great coach, but he’s not coaching now. And he is bad at this job.

    165. Lebron and Paul are the ones who will force a trade for Melo. And they are already convinced he’s worth trading picks/Love to get him.

      If that’s true, then bring it on.

    166. Honestly- Phil is a bad GM but also, he’s just a jerk. He’s a holier-than-thou arrogant prick that was gifted some of the great rosters the league has ever seen. Yes he was a great coach, but he’s not coaching now. And he is bad at this job.

      Amen. I am so sick of this guy, I was willing to give him some slack early on, but now I can’t wait to see him gone.

      And for a guy who’s supposed to be such an intellect, he’s really inarticulate.

    167. I don’t want a nice GM. I want someone who doesn’t give a shit what the media thinks. I want someone who will stand up to a superstar that has held his team ransom and tell him to fuck off. I want someone with the balls to actually attempt a rebuild in NYC.

      You thought getting rid of Melo would be easy? You think rebuilding and blowing this shitshow was going to happen without drama? Don’t be so naive. We’re so close to the scenario we’ve always wanted.

    168. I think the tweet was a dick move – but if it was a dick move that was effective in greasing the wheels of a trade, it would be acceptable. The only scenario in which that would make sense is if he had a good trade but couldn’t make it because it wasn’t one Melo would accept. Then the dick move would also be the smart move, as it probably makes Melo want to get out all the more.

      Probably it was just Phil being a dick, tho.

    169. The only scenario in which that would make sense is if he had a good trade but couldn’t make it because it wasn’t one Melo would accept. Then the dick move would also be the smart move, as it probably makes Melo want to get out all the more.

      That is also a possibility, but I think it’s less likely than Phil just being disgusted because he can’t make a deal and venting how he feels on Twitter.

    170. Phil is a godsend to NY. He got our last ring and will get our next one too. Sure it’s been a learning process but if he can move Melo for more than a sack of rocks we’ll be on our way.

    171. Keep pouring on the pressure until Melo caves. Shit, do it until he waives his NTC and begs to leave.

    172. I did read somewhere about a week ago that Melo had refused any possible trade to Toronto but I’m not certain if anything had been finalized.

    173. He’s not even Scottie Pippen or Pau Gasol. That’s the part that hurts most. Forget being a generational superstar, Melo wasn’t even a dude who could be part of the solution during Phil’s tenure. Go look at his advanced metrics and then consider how hard it would be to build around a guy who’s averaged .109 WS/48 the past three seasons while being paid a bonanza.

      It’s not like Phil wasn’t aware of this before he made Melo the highest paid player in the sport. Of course Melo asked for a shit ton of money, what professional athlete/agent wouldn’t? It’s the responsibility of the front office to not dole out terrible contracts. Melo has played like a former good-not-great player having a decline in his 30s, in other words exactly what was easy to predict.

      Melo is not the first clearly undeserving player to ask for an enormous contract, and sure as hell won’t be the last. The difference is other front offices say no.

    174. Yeah, it’s hard to feel sorry for Phil being “hamstrung” by a terrible contract that he gave out.

    175. Yeah, it’s hard to feel sorry for Phil being “hamstrung” by a terrible contract that he gave out.

      at this point…the only sympathy i have, knick related, is for the fans stuck alongside the knicks in this clusterfuck do loop…

    176. It’s not like Phil wasn’t aware of this before he made Melo the highest paid player in the sport.

      Phil resigned Melo because Melo was the only asset he had on a poorly constructed team with no picks, washed up talent, and role players. And the funny thing is that it wouldn’t have made much a positive difference to let him walk since we didn’t even have first round draft picks for two of the next three years anyways so even tanking was out of the question.

      No one could have predicted that a player who had a .172 WS/48 the year he came aboard as GM would regress to a .109 WS/48 player in the next three years. Everyone blames Phil, but there is no GM on Earth who can build a winning team around that player. We should all hope Phil trades and gets something of decent value in return. It will be the ultimate instance of turning a lemon into lemonade and then everyone sitting back criticizing Phil for giving that contract will have to reconcile the fact that we actually got something for little talent.

    177. Phil resigned Melo because Melo was the only asset he had on a poorly constructed team with no picks, washed up talent, and role players. And the funny thing is that it wouldn’t have made much a difference since we didn’t even have first round draft picks for two of the next three years anyways.

      If Phil’s tweet is to be believed, he signed Melo because he thought he could turn him into Kobe or some shit. The assets we would’ve gotten from the Bulls in a sign-and-trade are almost definitely better than what we’ll wind up with. I mean, they traded the picks that turned into Harris and Nurkic for Doug freakin’ McDermott. That package was definitely on the table for the Knicks, and to make salary work we probably would’ve had to take on Gibson and/or Mirotic, who were both flippable at the time.

      Point being, he didn’t sign Melo and give him a full no trade clause so he could trade him later.

      But not even Phil could have predicted that a player who had a .172 WS/48 the year he came aboard as GM would regress to a .109 WS/48 player in the next three years.

      That’s an age 29 season and an age 32 season. If Phil wasn’t prepared for a drop off, he has no idea how the human aging process works.

    178. If Phil’s tweet is to be believed, he signed Melo because he thought he could turn him into Kobe or some shit.

      Actually, Phil’s tweet says the opposite. He said he learned his lesson back in the CBA days with Michael Graham that “you don’t change the spots on a leopard.”

      Bleacher's Ding almost rings the bell, but I learned you don't change the spot on a leopard with Michael Graham in my CBA daze.— Phil Jackson (@PhilJackson11) February 7, 2017

      This means Phil is stating that he never had any delusions about what Melo was and what he would become.

      That’s an age 29 season and an age 32 season. If Phil wasn’t prepared for a drop off, he has no idea how the human aging process works.

      That dropoff wasn’t a natural age regression, it was an immediate drop which coincided with Melo’s knee surgery. He immediately went from an All-Star level talent to a little bit above replacement player status in the course of less than a season.

    179. But Melo’s best basketball friends haven’t aged that way. And they all play defense too.

    180. Phil resigned Melo because Melo was the only asset he had on a poorly constructed team with no picks, washed up talent, and role players. And the funny thing is that it wouldn’t have made much a positive difference to let him walk since we didn’t even have first round draft picks for two of the next three years anyways so even tanking was out of the question.

      No one could have predicted that a player who had a .172 WS/48 the year he came aboard as GM would regress to a .109 WS/48 player in the next three years. Everyone blames Phil, but there is no GM on Earth who can build a winning team around that player. We should all hope Phil trades and gets something of decent value in return. It will be the ultimate instance of turning a lemon into lemonade and then everyone sitting back criticizing Phil for giving that contract will have to reconcile the fact that we actually got something for little talent.

      He could have easily, easily, easily traded Melo for the Bulls’ two first round picks, Tony Snell and Carlos Boozer (he possibly could have gotten Mirotic, but maybe not). He had a lot of leverage since Melo was not going to turn down $50 million to sign elsewhere. He absolutely did not have to re-sign Melo and he certainly didn’t have to give him a NTC on top of it. This isn’t like a complaint in hindsight, these were all critiques at the time of the signing. It was a godawful contract right from the start.

    181. I agree that Washinton is a good fit for a Melo trade, and I’ve suggested it here before. That being said, I doubt Melo says yes to it.

    182. He had a lot of leverage since Melo was not going to turn down $50 million to sign elsewhere.

      All speculative.

    183. As far as Phil’s character goes, great coaches always know how to be honest with players even if the player doesn’t want to hear it. I’m sure Phil is that way. His sometime public criticism of players is just part of that. He doesn’t dissemble when Lisa Leslie asks an intelligent basketball question.

    184. All speculative.

      No, it was widely reported at the time that the only way Melo was going to the Bulls was via sign-and-trade. Melo wouldn’t give the Knicks anything other than a face-saving, token discount. He was not going to give the Bulls a $50 million dollar discount. The choice Jackson made was Melo over those two picks and possibly another goodie or two. That’s a lot more than we’ll get in any future trade.

    185. @236

      What’s speculative is that Melo wouldn’t leave us and take another contract elsewhere.

    186. We should have started trying to trade Melo 20 minutes after we lost to Indiana. We’d tried to win now, taken a good shot at it, and it didn’t work. That was the high water mark. We didn’t understand why our own team was good, and it’s not surprising we didn’t know how to make it better. I still don’t think Phil knows what he’s doing as GM. Nobody who thinks their team should commit to pay Noah, Lee and Lance Thomas 40 million dollars in 2020 has any business running an NBA team. I’m just some random dickhead on the internet and I know that.

    187. if that tweet about Paul and LeBron pushing to get Melo at “any cost”
      is true, I don’t even care about Phil anymore, he just has to sit and wait until someone caves in, preferably the Cavs because Love to Boston is still the dream scenario.

      he has been an overall shit gm but if he pulls this one off it changes everything for me.

    188. I still don’t think Phil knows what he’s doing as GM. Nobody who thinks their team should commit to pay Noah, Lee and Lance Thomas 40 million dollars in 2020 has any business running an NBA team. I’m just some random dickhead on the internet and I know that.

      Why this simple truth escapes many here is a mystery to me.

    189. The same guy also said he’s bet Melo stays so who really knows. Unless something new comes from Woj everything else is pretty much noise.

    190. if that tweet about Paul and LeBron pushing to get Melo at “any cost” is true

      There’s ZERO chance those guys think Melo is a solution to their peoblems. Furthermore, there’s ZERO evidence the silly tweet is anything other that some absurd dream by a dim-witted fan.

    191. I’m just some random dickhead on the internet and I know that.

      Yeah, but you are one of our favorite random dickheads on this forum. I mean that in the most complementary way. :-)

    192. an interesting thing about this team is that for a pretty mediocre team we have a bunch of guys who could be useful for better teams that we could trade. Kuzminskas, O’Quinn, Holiday, Jennings and even Lee are all pretty decent players who have useful skillsets and are on contracts that range from good to acceptable. None of them are good enough that I’d expect anything really valuable for them, but you could get some decent 2nd round picks or maybe a promising youngster if we shopped them aggressively. Alternatively, if we somehow manage to move Melo and just tell Rose to get fucked we’d probably win more games than people expect.

    193. Kuzminskas, O’Quinn, Holiday, Jennings and even Lee are all pretty decent players who have useful skillsets and are on contracts that range from good to acceptable. None of them are good enough that I’d expect anything really valuable for them, but you could get some decent 2nd round picks or maybe a promising youngster if we shopped them aggressively. Alternatively, if we somehow manage to move Melo and just tell Rose to get fucked we’d probably win more games than people expect.

      Not bad for an unknown dickhead. Not bad at all.

      Seriously, though, blog needs more coherent analysis like this and less of the “Clippers and Cavs will come begging for Melo” silliness of late.

    194. an interesting thing about this team is that for a pretty mediocre team we have a bunch of guys who could be useful for better teams that we could trade

      Its what happens when you build around a superstar with a .108 WS/48 in the past three seasons. Its the reason why I don’t understand so many people wanting to blow it up so fast. We don’t even have a clue of what this team can be until Melo is gone.

    195. Portland is beating Dallas. If this holds up it will put us behind another team.

    196. Sandy Alderson joked about the Mets becoming the third team in the Carmelo Anthony trade on SNY tonight. He’s a funny guy and willing to move an outfielder I believe.

    197. This franchise is a goddamn laughingstock. Our GM is comparing our top gun to some CBA player.

      Holy shit. I would never come here for Phil

    198. I think the Mavs winning is better for us. Portland is gunning hard for the 8th seed and it’s hard to see them finishing worse than us. It’s less clear for Dallas.

    199. Dirk with 2 late threes. Mavs up by 1 with 3.9 seconds left. Entertaining game.

    200. Great game between the Blazers and Mavs. It was good that Portland won, they needed that win. Mavericks are on their way up.

    201. I’m pretty much with Derrick and Reub in all this about today’s article and tweet.

      Melo needs to go. If Phil is tweaking him to try get him to to expand the # of teams he’s willing to be traded to, then so be it. Or maybe he’s playing the villain so that Lebron or CP3 want to “rescue” their buddy from the evil Knicks. I still just don’t see the Cavs being so stupid to deal Love for him…

      Of course, all this might be desperation or a red herring by Phil to try to foist the blame on someone other than himself for this crappy season. I realize this.

      However, if he does move Melo for anything of value, he buys himself some good graces, but then it is high time that he build this team the right way b/c the Rose and Noah deals blew up in his face.

    202. Of course, all this might be desperation or a red herring by Phil to try to foist the blame on someone other than himself for this crappy season.

      I’m gonna invoke Occam’s Razor here and go with “foist the blame” as more likely than “genius 12-dimensional chess move.”

    203. Its an interesting question of who Phil is foisting the blame upon in that cryptic tweet. If he’s declaring in the tweet that he never believed Melo would change his true colors, he’s declaring that he signed Melo without ever having believed in his ability to lead the franchise. So, with that in mind, three available interpretations seems likely. One, is he saying that the decision to sign Melo wasn’t his? Or, two, is it that he signed Melo believing that a trade was always imminent? Or, perhaps, it was both…

    204. Or, two, is it that he signed Melo believing that a trade was always imminent?

      If that were the case and he still gave him an NTC, then it would make the NTC even dumber than it already is..

    205. Melo not being willing to uproot his family and leave $50 million on the table is about as safe as an assumption as you can make.

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