Immanuel Quickley and the Knicks vs. Cavaliers: 4th 2020-21 Preseason Game Thread

The Knicks are missing Noel, Frank, Payton, Smith Jr., Rivers and Burks tonight.

So that means that Immanuel Quickley will be starting for the Knicks. We presumably will be seeing some of the #15-20 guys, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Thibs is, like, “Nope, I’d rather just play Quickley 40 minutes and Randle will play the point for 8 minutes.”

The lineup to open will be:

Quickley
Bullock
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Let’s go, Quickley (and the Knicks)!

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314 thoughts to “Immanuel Quickley and the Knicks vs. Cavaliers: 4th 2020-21 Preseason Game Thread”

  1. Got give Thibs credit where it’s due on this move. Elf isn’t out for injury. He’s out bc Thibs wants to see more IQ according to the beat writers. This is not a WIN NOW move lol. Or maybe it is.

  2. In one way, the recent Knicks drafting has definitely been a success. Now we don’t just have Frank arguments, we have Quickly, Toppin and Barrett ones too.

  3. In one way, the recent Knicks drafting has definitely been a success. Now we don’t just have Frank arguments, we have Quickly, Toppin and Barrett ones too.

    lol
    That’s the spirit!
    Team works for kb!

  4. Got give Thibs credit where it’s due on this move. Elf isn’t out for injury. He’s out bc Thibs wants to see more IQ according to the beat writers. This is not a WIN NOW move lol. Or maybe it is.

    Thibs knows he gets to choose which players play, right?

    In other words, I imagine that Payton does have some sort of injury, just not a major one that would normally merit sitting him, but since they wanted to see more from Quickley, they’re being extra cautious with Payton’s injury. Not that Payton has no injury.

  5. Knick fan not in NJ:
    In one way, the recent Knicks drafting has definitely been a success.Now we don’t just have Frank arguments, we have Quickly, Toppin and Barrett ones too.

    Variety is the spice of life

  6. For the beer enthusiasts out there I am celebrating this evening with a 750ml bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve Ale.

  7. Z-man:
    For the beer enthusiasts out there I am celebrating this evening with a 750ml bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve Ale.

    Nice…I am going with .a West Coast Golden Ale by Breakside Brewing

  8. I get the sense Clyde has been spending some fretting and betting on Fanduel…

    Seriously!

  9. Kind of refreshing watching a point guard who actually tries to score

    Well, Smith tries, too, he just isn’t, you know, good at it.

  10. Quickley has already done more than Frank has in his entire career

    I seriously don’t know if Frank actually had ever scored this much this quickly in a game in his entire career. I think you’re probably correct.

  11. Wait… Quickley’s mom played at Morgan State???? My alma mater!?

    Lemme look this up…

  12. IQ runs a lot of good screen roll with Mitch which doesn’t really leave a whole lot of role for Randle, either. I’m not at the point where I think he absolutely has to go, but if he reacts to the modernization of the Knick offense by hogging and bullshitting every time he touches the ball, he does.

  13. I could watch this team lose 50 games without much problem. Except for Randle.

    Seriously. That’s all I’ve ever asked for from them.

  14. Who… is this team?

    Just play your young players. If they lose, they lose. If they win, then amazing.

  15. How can they have such good back-up play-by-play guys but Wally is their top back-up analyst? How?!?

  16. Mitch looks like he’s working on the fouls.

    Why don’t they make the whole team out of Immanuel Quickley?

  17. Quickley and Garland seem pretty similar. I hope Quickley defends better, though.

    Just the first quarter, of course, but he actually looks eerily similar to Garland on defense. There was a sequence where they basically pulled the same move on each other on each end.

  18. Mitch looks like he’s working on the fouls.

    There’s no one to post him up. They really shouldn’t put Mitch on brusiers inside. Like, for instance, the Knicks would typically have Kurt Thomas bang with Shaq down low so that Shaq didn’t get Camby into automatic foul trouble.

  19. Did not know Robinson was ambidextrous. Not sure if Clyde means that literally but suggestive of his well stocked toolkit.

    RJ is playing well this quarter although he missed that three

    Iggy!

  20. Brian Cronin:
    How can they have such good back-up play-by-play guys but Wally is their top back-up analyst? How?!?

    Kenny Albert has been announcing Rangers games since 1995, before Dolan took over the team. I believe Wally is the only announcer hired since Dolan took over. Everything Dolan touches turns to shit.

  21. I could watch this squad all season! You see what happens when you don’t sign like 8 random dudes for no reason?

  22. Get rid of every guy above 25 on this team so I can watch the Theo Pinson Obi Toppin two man game in perpetuity

  23. Holy crap, Obi!

    Again, I know it’s the Cavs without their top post players, but it’s still very encouraging to see.

  24. JK47 says I can claim being the original Quickley stan, so I’ll own it good or bad!

  25. I really am so happy that Rose didn’t sign some dumb veteran to start over the young kids. This is what I’ve wanted from the Knicks for so many years.

  26. I know its early but I don’t think we can overemphasize how important a development Barrett nailing his free throws with his new stroke is for his career and this team by extension. If he fixes his low FT% it will go a loooong way towards improving his chances of being a legit NBA 2 guard.

  27. OK which one of yall works for the Knicks’ coaching staff?

    We’re seeing everybody peeps been asking for get floor time tonight so far.

  28. Did Bickerstaff go out and buy his own mask? It’s so much better than the NBA-issues one Thibs uses.

  29. Obi is pretty confused and seemingly low confidence on offense, hope that his game settles a bit and they figure out a way to utilize his passing more

  30. I’m not saying Knox can’t be on the court, but if so, they really have to hide him on defense.

  31. It’s interesting that DSJ was “hurt” tonight, too. Payton I can see, DSJ not so much. Might be something brewing.

  32. It’s interesting that DSJ was “hurt” tonight, too. Payton I can see, DSJ not so much. Might be something brewing.

    I remember Smith getting hurt last game. I think he’s legit getting an injury rest.

  33. please delete the previous thread so no one can ever read me condescending re: Quickley

  34. Pinson seems to have a nose for the hoop.

    I agree Garland looks a lot like Quickley.

    Toppin’s jumpshot, woof. It’s early though.

  35. E:
    Obi’s an excellent passer, which wasn’t advertised.

    Almost every scout said he was a very good passer despite the numbers.

  36. obi has some nice attributes but the combination of his pretty terrible handle and his defense are going to take some doing to overcome

  37. Knox looks like a stretch four that you just have to hide on defense. There’s value there.

  38. Almost every scout said he was a very good passer despite the numbers.

    Yeah, I thought his overall offensive game got a lot of plaudits, including his passing ability.

  39. Yeah right there’s exactly what the worry is with Randle. Looks like Thibs didn’t like either, immediate TO.

  40. I mean, I don’t what that pass was from IQ but it worked out.

    I say this every time Knox hits his threes but goddamn that jumper is wet. Man.

    He is so terrible but when those go in you immediately think he is 300% better than he is.

  41. So Knox should just exclusively shoot corner 3s at this point

    Hey, if you can hit the corner three, that’s still helpful!

  42. Knox may just have a niche yet if he can play that stretch 4 position competently.

    The problem is that he’s playing the 3 right now and it’s a lot harder hiding him on defense at the 3. You can’t have Randle or Toppin guard Osman, so it has to be Knox and he just can’t do it, either.

  43. Mike Honcho:
    So Knox should just exclusively shoot corner 3s at this point

    He hit them from the wing last game. I believe all 3

  44. Brian Cronin: The problem is that he’s playing the 3 right now and it’s a lot harder hiding him on defense at the 3. You can’t have Randle or Toppin guard Osman, so it has to be Knox and he just can’t do it, either.

    Seems like we may need to get rid of Randle…

  45. Barrett abused Wade there.

    basketball archaeologists from 2077 should know he means dean. dean wade.

  46. RJ has been incredible on the break and with his short 3ft flip shot or whatever it is

  47. I still want to see Quickley kick it out from the PnR. But not complaining, he deserves to start game 1

  48. This is as much fun I’ve had watching Knicks youngsters since that Summer League team went undefeated led by Balkman lol.

  49. This is as much fun I’ve had watching Knicks youngsters since that Summer League team went undefeated led by Balkman lol.

    Just basic competence from the front office is nice.

  50. We’re doubling these guys in terms of points scored after playing them a few days ago.

    I like.

  51. So uh Mitch has yet to commit a foul in 16 minutes – that’s pretty promising.

    Also I revise my earlier statement: Knox should just exclusively shoot threes.

  52. Knoxvak

    That’s precisely what I was thinking. And yeah…sort of need Randle to not be here for that to work.

  53. Ha! Had the same thought but Knovak or Knovacaine. That’s a comp we have thrown out a lot over the years.

    He is really stroking it.

  54. Not saying anything not blatantly obvious, but (1) offense taken out of the hands of Payton/Randle; (2) Knicks score 70 points in the first half, the game after going like +15 in the fourth. Kinda thinking they’re connected.

  55. I like that he’s not taking the bait and jumping every time. He’s disrupted a number of shots just on length alone and the Cavs are terrified to go in the paint.

  56. How about instead of watching regular season games we just watch a replay of that first half for the next 3 months?

  57. I know the Cavs are making Immanuel Quickley look like Steph Curry here.

    But he’s doing it to them after already playing a game against them a few days before.

    I like this from a rookie.

  58. JaVale doing a point center thing seems to be a major feature of the Cavs’ offense. Huh.

    Mitch responding with “how many times do I have to teach you this lesson old man?”

  59. THAT was a fun 1st half.

    Really wish Knox would find a clue or buy a vowel on defense, b/c that 3-ball is looking a lot splashier these days.

  60. mitch is just so much more physically dominant than everyone out there… he’s like playing against 8 year olds…

  61. Mike Honcho:
    I like that he’s not taking the bait and jumping every time. He’s disrupted a number of shots just on length alone and the Cavs are terrified to go in the paint.

    They’re terrified of him in front of them just with his hands up in the air.

  62. I know the Cavs are making Immanuel Quickley look like Steph Curry here.

    But he’s doing it to them after already playing a game a few days before.

    I like this from a rookie.

    Totally. Great first half from him.

  63. JaVale doing a point center thing seems to be a major feature of the Cavs’ offense. Huh.

    Seems like it’s more just a weird experiment. There’s no way this is going to happen in the regular season, right?

  64. I like the Volvo commercial, but when your driveway is in a blind spot like that, how in the world are you not super careful already?

  65. The WS/48 stats of the past two seasons had Mitch in David Robinson/Michael Jordan type rarefied air (~.220).

    Is it possible that his ability to play a full games worth of minutes (~32) makes this team playoff caliber or do I need to be talked back down to Earth?

  66. Sexton/Garland is actually a representative, young NBA backcourt and IQ is toying with them. Still early and don’t want to jinx it, and there will definitely be growing pains as a rookie point … but maybe … maybe … the Knicks finally hit big on one. And it’s the pick they got for Mook, too.

  67. E:
    Sexton/Garland is actually a representative, young NBA backcourt and IQ is toying with them.Still early and don’t want to jinx it, and there will definitely be growing pains as a rookie point … but maybe … maybe … the Knicks finally hit big on one.And it’s the pick they got for Mook, too.

    Lol imagine if we didn’t fire Mills and so didn’t make that trade

  68. Looks like we’re playing some scrubs but playing really well is better than not! 10 seed here we come!

  69. Lol imagine if we didn’t fire Mills and so didn’t make that trade

    I was just thinking of that. Imagine if they had kept and re-signed Morris. Ooph, Mills was so dumb.

  70. Well sure, it’s the last preseason game, but ahem, are we feeling at least a bit better about our #25 pick? Or are we going to continue this shit?

  71. Thibs effect is starting to be visible after a few days. Although the D has HUGE holes so far…

  72. Looks like we’re playing some scrubs but playing really well is better than not! 10 seed here we come!

    Yeah, exactly, preseason is meaningless, but it’s better to kick ass in a meaningless game than not and as I’ve always said, the only thing that I take from preseason games is whether young players look like they belong on the court or not and Quickley and Toppin have certainly done that.

  73. Four steals, too. Jesus.

    I saw that and I had no idea where they came from. Anyone remember any of them?

  74. Mitch playing like the second coming of Bill Russell on D

  75. Two or three of IQ’s steals were from being in the right place on broken plays

  76. Z-man:
    Well sure, it’s the last preseason game, but ahem, are we feeling at least a bit better about our #25 pick? Or are we going to continue this shit?

    What’s the line for Quickley as RoY?

  77. Hey, who here liked Cedi Osman? I remember someone talking him up a couple of years ago…

  78. Hey, who here liked Cedi Osman? I remember someone talking him up a couple of years ago…

    A few different people liked Osman back in the day, I believe. Lebron was intrigued by him, as well.

  79. Not sure anyone has ever liked Cedi. He’s pretty meh. (edit: did we?)

    I feel like IQ collected a couple balls that people threw up in the air when Mitch blocked out the sun.

    Another three from IQ. It’s preseason but still….

  80. Randall drew the foul, but what the hell was that? The broken-ass spin move you guys keep talking about?

  81. I just got in with the wife.

    Are we ready yet to call this Quicksanity?

    Am I first in on that?
    :-)

  82. Between Mitch and Quickley I really hope a lot of opening night starting lineup decisions are in the process of being made

  83. Y’all remember the season we had Dad Melo? Dad Randle wouldn’t be the worst thing this season, at least as opposed to spin move Randle. (By Dad Randle, I mean him passing a lot and involving the young guys.)

  84. Look… I know Randle’s got 8 dimes, but someone please tell him he’s no Anthony Davis with the ball.

  85. Okay, I guess I can watch Mandalorian now. My wife actually said, “I can wait if the game is important” and I couldn’t very well say that the final preseason game that they’re up 40 in the third is an “important” game, so off to Mandalorian!

  86. The threat of MRob rolling opened that driving lane for RJ.

    If those two can continue to develop their 2-man game… Mane…

  87. Okay, Quickley looks like he knows how to game a cheap foul call from officials like a vet.

    Where the fuck did he learn this? He wasn’t a lead point guard in Kentucky…

  88. Okay, I guess I can watch Mandalorian now. My wife actually said, “I can wait if the game is important” and I couldn’t very well say that the final preseason game that they’re up 40 in the third is an “important” game, so off to Mandalorian!

    It’s a treat.

  89. I think we should leave Knox in the corner all season long and never move him from there on offense ever…

  90. Ntilakilla:
    I think we should leave Knox in the corner all season long and never move him from there on offense ever…

    Might as well keep him there while they are on defense too.

  91. A Kevin Knox who took 3s and the occasional cutter or transition shot would be something to build on

  92. Obi has not looked good except for the 1st half of the 1st game

  93. Obi was shockingly quiet outside of the first game. I almost expected him to have the opposite problem (trying to do too much). I feel like I learned very little about him this preseason.

  94. I saw good things from Obi…the passing has been a pleasantry. He’s trying on defense at least. But his tentative play on offense has limited his game there.

  95. Again, it was against some of the scrubbiest scrubs in all the NBA, but I did not hate how Jared Harper looked as IQ’s backup tonight. We had a small army of point guards out with injruies or illness, so he may not get this kind of run again for a while, but not bad.

    Iggy, on the other hand, very much did not do anything with his extended gar-bage time. Spellman’s waistline may save Iggy from being cut for MKG, but was hoping to see more signs out of him.

  96. @JCMacriNBA
    Thibs calls Mitchell Robinson’s performance tonight “terrific.” Notes that he’s been staying late, working extra hard behind the scenes, etc. Sounds very impressed.

    Most likely: Quickley starts at PG on opening night, Mitch starts at C on opening night, both, or neither? Brian, I think it may be time for a new poll!

    (Also, I had many Mandalorian thoughts for when you and your wife have finished watching.)

  97. @JCMacriNBA
    ·
    4m
    Thibs calls Mitchell Robinson’s performance tonight “terrific.” Notes that he’s been staying late, working extra hard behind the scenes, etc. Sounds very impressed.

    that’s what I like to hear

  98. Right after the 2nd preseason game i checked the 2020 games and “saw” a 0-5 record for start.
    Sixers/Bucks in MSG
    Pacers/Cavs/Raptors Out
    After tonight’s game i feel we have a real chance to get 2 to 3 wins.

  99. I think Knicks/Cavs was basically a coin toss before tonight, so sure, they could easily beat the Cavs. It’s funny, I know that they are bad defenders and are well known for their bad defense (the Cavs were #30 last season), but it’s still a whole other story seeing Garland and Sexton at “work.” How do you draft two guards who are that bad at defense? What was the logic there?

  100. Cavs, Pacers and one of the other 3 are possible imo IF ALL GODS of Olympus wear Orange and Blue

  101. I really and truly hope that Noel’s injury was not the reason for all of this extra Mitch time. I was feeling pretty down about Thibs for not starting Mitch or playing Quickley, but he sure turned that shit around quickly, right? Now Thibs suddenly looks like the fucking young gun whisperer! I love it.

  102. I’m at the end of a thread! Wow, these have been epically long and entertaining. Gracias!

    What can I say. This might be the highlight of the season but I hope not. Clyde said Elf should start. I think it’s only a matter of time before IQ gets the job. He looks physically and MENTALLY up to it. Knox a REVELATION. Barrett much better than last year. Defense good! Thibs good. Robinson bringing to mind vintage Tyson Chandler. I loved Jared Harper in a couple of Auburn games I happened to catch last year and really hope he sticks. Didn’t make the connection that the K’s had him. Both he and Quickly look like they have the team better organized than I’ve seen in years. I like Obi but he’s not ready to start. The time is NOT now for suitors for Randle. When they show they can’t win against real competition sure…but he’s moving the ball really well right now. No complaints at all…

  103. Obi’s rebounding was pretty bad and you kinda hoped he’d dominate the g-leaguers in garbage time. The passing is nice. A few times maybe he should have called his own number, but happy to see him working on it.

    Far from panic button time, but a little concerned.

  104. looks like rj really did work on his shooting in the offseason…. 4 games he’s 87% from the line…. 66% from 2… the 2p % has a lot of transition buckets in there and some bad comp so obv not sustainable …. but the free throws are competition agnostic… rj shooting over 70% is going to do wonders for his entire game and that will be a huge improvement and could signal a breakout…. we’ll see what happens when he faces actual good interior defenses which was his problem last season… the 3’s have not been falling but it really doesn’t need to just yet.,.. just as long as he’s north of 30% for now….

    obi’s line has been mixed…. the good news is that he’s shooting 55% from 2p and grabbing 8.5 rebounds per 36… both are really good especially when his college #s portended some problems on the boards….

    the bad news are the stock #s… the college #s also did portend an issue here also and the worrying part is that the game seemed to be going a little too fast for him at times… that’s somewhat normal as a rookie and you just need more reps sometimes… he just needs to limit himself this year and work on his defense….

    quickley’s look good… he’s def pulling the lou williams get to the line at all costs strategy…. although i have my doubts the refs will give him as favorable a whistle during the year… the floater has looked ok…. it’s low and there’s a bit of a windup so i also have my doubts it will fall consistently against tougher comp but it’s falling now… he’s going to need both those things since he can’t get to the rim….

  105. The real question is what’s gonna happen with Burks, Elfrid, Frank, Austin and Dennis?

    Burks just takes Bullock’s spot and Bullock gets spot minutes, that’s easy. The others are fascinating, though. I really don’t know where they fit in, especially since they’re obviously going to play Austin Rivers. Perhaps Rivers starts at the 1, with Quickley backing him up and Frank gets spot minutes backing up the 2? I think Smith is the odd men out and I have no idea what to do with Payton. It might seriously go from him starting Game 1 to him being benched by Game 5.

    Payton is a talented player, but if Quickley can even play remotely as well as he did tonight, there really isn’t a real role for Payton on the team. Heck, even if Quickley is a lot worse than tonight, wouldn’t you just rather take your lumps with Quickley?

  106. djphan: quickley’s look good… he’s def pulling the lou williams get to the line at all costs strategy…. although i have my doubts the refs will give him as favorable a whistle during the year… the floater has looked ok…. it’s low and there’s a bit of a windup so i also have my doubts it will fall consistently against tougher comp but it’s falling now… he’s going to need both those things since he can’t get to the rim….

    He’s got fout assets that help with his forays towards the basket: 1) he can shoot well from 3 with a quick release 2) he has a good 2-way handle 3) he’s has a decent first step and 4) he shows contact well. What I’ve noticed is that the he picks his spots to attack and gets fouled by off-balance defenders. Sure, this could be a problem vs. better defenders, but he had a very high FTr in college, so what we’ve seen thus far suggests that getting fouled on drives is a thing…and when you shoot 90% from the line, it’s a very good thing.

  107. More generally, getting defenders off balance and freezing them is key to getting fouled or getting all the way to the rim. RJ and Quickley seem to have that down, whereas Knox and Frank don’t. I remember a play where RJ drove left and a defender was right there…he threw a very subtle hesitation/head fake at him and then just blew by him. Knox would have gone straight in and gotten blocked; Frank would have pulled up.

  108. Of the vets, Bullock is a very useful piece when he strokes it like he did tonight. Hard not to root hard for him after the tragedy and neck injury he endured last year.

  109. Knox’s deathride drives in traffic should be fined.
    They are shocking and cause heart problems.

  110. Spurs hit the jackpot in the mid/low 20s with Tony Parker and had him in the starting lineup in Game 5. Twenty minutes opening night then 6 in Game 2. Mid 20s the next two then the start.

  111. More generally, getting defenders off balance and freezing them is key to getting fouled or getting all the way to the rim. RJ and Quickley seem to have that down, whereas Knox and Frank don’t. I remember a play where RJ drove left and a defender was right there…he threw a very subtle hesitation/head fake at him and then just blew by him. Knox would have gone straight in and gotten blocked; Frank would have pulled up.

    Barrett deserves a ton of credit for his drives this year. It’s like night and day from last season.

  112. If Payton plays with good shooters he should stay ahead of Rivers on the depth chart. Rivers is not good and worse as a PG.

    Unless IQ wilts in the regular season, I don’t expect to see much more DSJr. Really not sure what happens with Frank, he seems like 10th man material and probably moves ahead of Knox at some point as a backup wing with Bullock.

    My guess:

    Quickley/Burks/RJ/Randle/Mitch

    Payton/Frank/Bullock/Obi/Noel

  113. If Elf gets Pipped out of the rotation altogether, it could look something like this:

    PG: Quickley/Rivers/Frank spot minutes
    SG: Burks/Bullock/Frank spot minutes
    SF: Barrett/Knox (though he should be playing 4)/Frank spot minutes
    PF: Randle/Toppin
    C: Mitch/Noel

    Rivers isn’t exactly a point guard, but he’s passable in the second unit (especially if he shares the court a lot with RJ) and can shoot better than Payton. Frank’s your in case of emergency defensive specialist.

    Still a bad team, but a team I feel I would mostly enjoy watching?

  114. If Payton plays with good shooters he should stay ahead of Rivers on the depth chart. Rivers is not good and worse as a PG.

    Berman has been raving about Rivers, which sure sounds like the Knicks are big on him, no?

  115. Not to be a dick but does quick remind anyone of strick?

    Early Strick? Yeah, that’s fair. Strick later totally revamped his game.

  116. Is it actually possible that with RJ, Mitch, IQ, and kind of Toppin and Knox the Knicks might actually conceivably have something percolating here? It can’t be true, right?

  117. Dylan Windler

    Marques Bolden

    Dean Wade

    Levi Randolph

    Matt Mooney

    Charles Matthews

    Lamar Stevens

    those guys all played at least 12 minutes tonight

  118. Yes, everyone please read and re-read DRed’s comment before we get too far ahead of ourselves. Can Quickley and/or Knox consistently do this against real defenses? (For that matter, can Knox consistently do anything?) But like Brian says, this kind of rotation feels likes a team we can enjoy rooting for even if they lose 50 games.

  119. Here are my guesses for the first 10 games or so:

    There will be a three point guard rotation to start…Quickley/DSjr/Elfrid…while they work to trade one or both of the latter two

    Bullock, Rivers and Burks will split the 2-guard minutes unless Frank earns time there. If Frank doesn’t shoot the 3 well, he won’t play much.

    RJ will be the main 3, with Knox backing him up and Bullock and Frank getting spot minutes

    Obi and Randle will be the two 4’s, with Knox there in small lineups

    Mitch and Nerlens will rotate at the C, with Randle playing in small lineups and a tiny bit of Obi there.

    Some guys will be in and out of the rotation based on play and injuries. The only guys who will play every night are IQ (for now), Randle, RJ, Obi, Mitch, Noel and Knox (for now). Rivers, DSjr, Frank, Payton, and Burks will be in and out of rotation based on developing the kids and getting vets minutes.

  120. those guys all played at least 12 minutes tonight

    That’s more than fair in the last game, but tonight, Quickly scored 11 points in the first quarter off of the Cavs’ staring backcourt. The Cavs’ starting backcourt is the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA, but they’re still starters in the NBA, so I think that Quickley’s job in the first quarter was a lot more impressive than his job in the fourth in the last game, which was legitimately against super scubs.

    Knox? Okay, yeah, all of his good stuff was against the scrubbiest of scrubs.

  121. Brian Cronin: Early Strick? Yeah, that’s fair. Strick later totally revamped his game.

    The day I heard it announced on the radio that the Knicks traded Rod Strickland for (pause…) FUCKING MO CHEEKS was one of my darker ones as a Knicks fan. It totally fucked up my Bomb Squad poster.

  122. The day I heard it announced on the radio that the Knicks traded Rod Strickland for (pause…) FUCKING MO CHEEKS was one of my darker ones as a Knicks fan. It totally fucked up my Bomb Squad poster.

    I was so upset! I was a lot younger, of course, so I didn’t know that much about the NBA at the time, but it really seemed like it was a case of them giving up on a promising player due to growing pains, which I thought was crazy.

  123. So the Pacers starting lineup will likely be: Turner, Sabonis, Warren, Oladipo, Brogdan.

    Uh-oh. We’re not in Kansas anymore (or Michigan, or Ohio…)

  124. It’s hilarious that it looks like Horford is going to revitalize his career in OKC and become an actual trade asset! Presti has the golden touch there.

  125. E:
    Spurs hit the jackpot in the mid/low 20s with Tony Parker and had him in the starting lineup in Game 5.Twenty minutes opening night then 6 in Game 2.Mid 20s the next two then the start.

    I remember it well. I live in SA and watched every game. Antonio Daniels was starting, and while he was a useful third guard, he was not a PG. Parker could not shoot from outside, and was 19 years old, but the offense got such a charge when he would come into the ball game. I remember thinking, “Pop’s gonna have to start the kid.” It was a stark choice. As stark as Quickley and Efrid.

    Yeah, preseason and the Cavs suck. But we finally have might some players with discernible NBA skills. (But let’s not compare Knox to Dale Ellis yet. Although Knox should definitely look at his tape.)

    This basketball is so much more watchable.

  126. If you’re not hopeful after tonight then you aren’t a Knicks fan. Mark this date. This is the day this franchise started to turn things around.

    Not don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying Quickley is Jason Kidd or that the Knicks are gonna go to the playoffs this year. But this is the moment when we started that climb up the hill.

  127. Also hiring Kenny Payne. I’m a huge UK fan and I’ve said this before but they’ve always gotten better as the year wore on and payne was the driving force behind that.

    And brining him on board is gonna do wonders for all of our young players. Coaching matters and we have a real head coach and real assistants.

  128. Brian Cronin:
    It’s hilarious that it looks like Horford is going to revitalize his career in OKC and become an actual trade asset! Presti has the golden touch there.

    He’s not revitalizing his career. It was brain damaged level stupid for him to be on the same team as Embiid, Simmons, and the rest of those brick throwers. He’s at that age where he’s going to decline but it was exaggerated by the horrible fit.

  129. I understood the Randle hate last year. People didn’t appreciate what a horrible position he and Barrett were in when their strength is going inside and we had no shooters to give them space to get to the rim and terrible coaching on top of it. However, IMO Randle is playing well this year. He’s being fairly efficient and passing very well. He may even lead the team in assists. Sure, you still get the occasional boneheaded play where he tries to do too much, but that will slowly go away as he coached better and we have a team of players that can shoot and score. Then he’ll feel less compelled and required to create something out of nothing – which is outside his range as a 3rd option type player masquerading as a #1 on a bad team.

  130. From looking at his college stats down the stretch of his last season, it wasn’t tough to know Quickley could shoot really well, but it only took about 10 minutes of watching him play to know we scored a player that could do more than just shoot. I said it immediately. Not only can he shoot, he can handle, pass, has no fear, and apparently can run a team OK too. We drafted a real NBA player.

  131. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Hope is now at its peak. There’s nothing but pain from here.

    This is truth. But we do have Mitch and RJ. We have actual options at every position. We’re young and can run. We can shoot a little. We play hard on D. We have two elite rim protectors. We have oodles of cap space and picks.

  132. Olidipo looks light he might be healthy again.

    I suspect he’s still a target, but they were waiting to see what he looks like before giving up assets for him. Of course if he is 100%, the price will go up, but I don’t think Rose is done hunting for big game.

  133. Ten years ago our starting lineup was STAT, Gallo, Mozgov, Fields and Felton and our bench was Chandler, Turiaf, TDDWTDD, and Bill Walker. That was fun…then the Melo trade happened. Folks said then that that would set us back for a decade.

    And here we are. Is it time yet?

  134. Z-man: This is truth. But we do have Mitch and RJ. We have actual options at every position. We’re young and can run. We can shoot a little. We play hard on D. We have two elite rim protectors. We have oodles of cap space and picks.

    We are terrible, but we have a good coach, RJ is going to be a player, Mitch will do his block and dunk thing really well and get people excited, and we may finally have a PG that can shoot. But the path from where we are now to being good is several years of development and finding a legitimate #1 option. I’m growing confident that RJ is going to be a good #2, but he’ll need a better and more consistent 3 point shot to become a #1 option because he’s not elite at everything else like some other #1 options that weren’t exactly great from beyond the arc. He’s good around the basket, can create for himself, can pass, rebound a bit etc.. He’s going to be very good, jut not a #1 unless he adds a really good 3.

  135. Ten years ago our starting lineup was STAT, Gallo, Mozgov, Fields and Felton and our bench was Chandler, Turiaf, TDDWTDD, and Bill Walker. That was fun…then the Melo trade happened. Folks said then that that would set us back for a decade.

    And here we are. Is it time yet?

    And that team had a lot of money tied up in STAT, too, while this team has Randle’s expiring contract and practically a clean cap sheet after that. It’s definitely a heartening place to be. Thank you, Leon Rose, for not being terrible at free agency!

  136. Thus far I’m happy with Quickley, damn the process. Obi worries me a bit. He was a fine pick at #8 but other than his passing there’s not a lot to be excited about yet.

  137. Z-man:
    Ten years ago our starting lineup was STAT, Gallo, Mozgov, Fields and Felton and our bench was Chandler, Turiaf, TDDWTDD, and Bill Walker. That was fun…then the Melo trade happened. Folks said then that that would set us back for a decade.

    And here we are. Is it time yet?

    If the question is are we on a good path, the answer is YES. We have been for awhile despite some boneheaded mistakes in between. If the question is are we good or close to being good the answer is NO. The young players we have now are 3-4 years and some playoff experience away from even beginning to reach their peaks and I don’t think they are good enough. We have to add a very significant piece somehow and that gets harder via draft as you get better and move down the draft. We are eventually gong to have to make a move.

  138. Z-man:
    Thus far I’m happy with Quickley, damn the process. Obi worries me a bit. He was a fine pick at #8 but other than his passing there’s not a lot to be excited about yet.

    We needed a stretch 4 that could defend. As far as I am concerned unless he has NBA 3 range, it was a pointless selection. Maybe he has it or will develop it, but we haven’t seen it yet. His game is more inside, leaking out (which NBA teams will take away), and using his athleticism to dunk and finish on offense. He’s a negative defender. I like his personality and attitude a lot, but I’m not sure he’s the player we needed. Obviously we have to be patient. I’m sure he will get better, but he’s not 19.

  139. There will be a three point guard rotation to start…Quickley/DSjr/Elfrid…while they work to trade one or both of the latter two

    Bullock, Rivers and Burks will split the 2-guard minutes unless Frank earns time there. If Frank doesn’t shoot the 3 well, he won’t play much.

    RJ will be the main 3, with Knox backing him up and Bullock and Frank getting spot minutes

    To me, they should be going all out to trade DSjr because I think you need Payton even if they give the starting job to Quickley immediately or soon after the season starts. Payton is the more steady veteran hand. DSjr is the basketball version of a manic depressive. He can’t be given a big role any time soon. No thanks.

    We haven’t seen enough of Frank to know where his game is at. He hasn’t put up enough 3s. But I have a tough time seeing him get any minutes at PG unless DSjr is traded and there is an injury. He’s not going to play ahead of Burks, Rivers or Bullock either unless he’s a better player this year.

    I would absolutely love to see him next to RJ and Quickley, but even with Quickley I don’t think it’s ideal without more shooting. You can’t have Frank, RJ, Randle/Obi and Robinson on the court together unless one or two of those guys can shoot the 3. If Frank wants the job he can’t depend on someone else (like Obi or RJ) getting better to get his defense and secondary playmaking on the court. He has to shoot better himself. But that’s what we should be rooting for. If he earns the minutes because he’s shooting better (even on low usage), having that defense, ball movement etc.. on the floor with RJ and Quickley would be really nice.

  140. It’s kind of funny, we’re like “Quickley looked good, RJ too, Mitch was omnipotent, a little worried about Obi tho”

    Dudes, these are all basically kids. They could get better or maybe not, but we’ve got the youngest team in the NBA and personally, I’m just thrilled to be watching players who are not freaking Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson where you know exactly what you’ve got and there’s no upside.

    This will be a fun team to watch, win or lose.

  141. Z-man: Reality will hit hard in games 1-3

    It will, but I think it won’t be as grim as previous seasons. This team has some young talent and a little bit of a spark. Between Mitch owning the offensive boards, RJB getting to the rim, and Topin and Quickly developing there’s something to look for. Also the coaching is not terrible anymore, you can see a team out there, not a collection of chaos agents running around aimlessly.

  142. ***Not to be a dick but does quick remind anyone of strick?***

    Rod, or Erick?

    I didn’t watch this, or that, or anything in between, but which team was better: this 2020 Cavs preseason team or that Hawks summer league team that Knox had his debut/coming out party for?

  143. Erick Strickland made me think of that big three-pointer he hit to tie a game with less than a second left. He barely played for the Knicks and yet I still have that memory. I wonder which Knick played the fewest amount of games and still had a big shot to their credit.

  144. Brian Cronin:
    Erick Strickland made me think of that big three-pointer he hit to tie a game with less than a second left. He barely played for the Knicks and yet I still have that memory. I wonder which Knick played the fewest amount of games and still had a big shot to their credit.

    Maurice Ndour sigh

  145. Cheeks lead us to a great victory in a playoff series against the Celtics. Bird famously missed a dunk and we got around their juggernaut. Then the next year he fell off a cliff and we had to watch Rod tear drop his way to an almost HOF career for the next decade. Ah, to be a Knicks fan…

    As to prognostications, I bring this up on this board and nobody ever takes it up. The things to watch for are anomalies. Like Drummond shedding 50 lbs and developing a 3pt shot. Tons happens that we expect of course. Shit moves depending on things we do not. That’s the kind of analysis I’m looking for. Mitch was a second round pick but looks like an all star if he can stay out of foul trouble. Last night no fouls. Can he keep it up? Based on statistical projections, no. But is it a forgone conclusion, no? If he stays on the court and becomes a double double machine, how much better does the team become? What other minor / major changes in profile do we need to get the W/L record above .500%? Is it probable based on past results? No. Is it possible? Well, every team that’s gone from bad to better has had that type of growth. I’d say that one break that we may be able to take to the bank is our late first round pick looking like an above average starting NBA PG.

  146. So I’m not buying any stock in the Immanuel Quickley company just yet. He has the size, speed, defensive chops and shooting ability you want to see from a point guard and that’s really nice to have on the Knicks. The problem is he’s way too reliant on that floater and he doesn’t have any dribble moves to beat defenders off the dribble. From what I saw, Quickley projects more as a secondary playmaking type more than a guy who can get you into your offense every night. The good thing is he’s 21 years old and that’s a great place to start. What I need to see going forward:

    – More ability to work off the ball in catch and shoot situations. If you can’t handle it like Ja Morant or even Elfrid Payton, I need you putting pressure on defenses coming off screens.

    – That handle has to tighten up. The problem here is I have never seen an NBA guard come into the game with little to no juice on ball and turn into a guy who can get you a bucket with no screens.

    – Use that 6’8” wingspan to long arm his way to a better finishing percentage at the basket. The kid has the tools to do it, but his slight frame and lack of Morant level explosiveness makes me think it’s a strength issue with IQ. If he’s ever going to be an average finisher at the basket, he’s going to have to spend a lot of time with the strength and conditioning guys.

  147. The Glass Half Rebuilt:
    So I’m not buying any stock in the Immanuel Quickley company just yet. He has the size, speed, defensive chops and shooting ability you want to see from a point guard and that’s really nice to have on the Knicks. The problem is he’s way too reliant on that floater and he doesn’t have any dribble moves to beat defenders off the dribble. From what I saw, Quickley projects more as a secondary playmaking type more than a guy who can get you into your offense every night. The good thing is he’s 21 years old and that’s a great place to start.

    I’ve already bought my 100 shares. Your observations align with what his draft profile said in regards to his playmaking ability. I began stanning for him because I saw the profile of a mobile 3&D guard with some playmaking skills: not a headliner, but something the team needed. I thought he would be a guy that comes off the bench this season and be a poor man’s Lou Williams w/defense. The fact that he’s shown he may be able to handle starting PG duties was something I was not expecting at all.

    I don’t know how far he’ll develop, and maybe he won’t reach elite playmaker level required for a title contender. But his base is a level of competency we haven’t seen in quite a while.

  148. The Infamous Cdiggy: I’ve already bought my 100 shares. Your observations align with what his draft profile said in regards to his playmaking ability. I began stanning for him because I saw the profile of a mobile 3&D guard with some playmaking skills: not a headliner, but something the team needed. I thought he would be a guy that comes off the bench this season and be a poor man’s Lou Williams w/defense. The fact that he’s shown he may be able to handle starting PG duties was something I was not expecting at all.

    I don’t know how far he’ll develop, and maybe he won’t reach elite playmaker level required for a title contender. But his base is a level of competency we haven’t seen in quite a while.

    If nothing else Quickley looks like a solid combo guard or a Jason Kidd style 2 guard where he just makes the right read and swings it or throws an entry pass a little crisper and with a bit more oomph than other SGs.

  149. danvt:
    As to prognostications, I bring this up on this board and nobody ever takes it up. The things to watch for are anomalies.

    In the last thread, I brought up NBA market inefficiencies because it’s been discussed here before. I basically theorized that the CAAntucky angle the team has is them attempting to identify and exploit such inefficiencies. Kentucky is a top-3 farm for blue-chip/high-level collegiate talent whose collection forces some of those talents out of position, away from showing their full tool kit – the type of players that can be mid/late 1st rounders.

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