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Knicks Morning News (2025.07.15)
07/15/2025 11:00:01
07/15/2025 11:00:00
07/15/2025 09:30:00
07/15/2025 07:02:04
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260 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.07.15)”
Rather than spend another day having the exact same arguments we’ve been having for years, and wasting the time of every single person reading them, let me raise a whole bunch of questions — some Knicks-related, some NBA-related, some completely off-topic — and see if we can’t get some other conversations going:
1. Does anyone know anything about Riccardo Fois, the Sacramento assistant who’s reportedly joining Brown’s staff? We’ve already been denied permission on Borrego and Jay Triano, and Rick Brunson’s been demoted, so at the moment, Fois would seem to be Brown’s top lieutenant.
2. Did any of what McCullar did in the second SL game seem applicable to real NBA basketball, or was it just him taking advantage of the general chaos of Vegas, coupled with the Knicks being incompetent on offense generally?
3. Does McCullar now have the obvious inside track for that rookie minimum salary slot on the big league roster? Is anyone still pulling for Nnaji or Diawara? (Related: having seen two games of Diawara, do you want him to spend the year in Europe, or in Westchester on a two-way?)
4. If you accept that you should get too excited by good SL performances (see Kevin Knox, Anthony Randolph, et al), but that bad SL performances should be concerning, how are we all feeling about The Tyler Kolek Experience at the moment? It already sounded like he was going to be out of the rotation, and I can’t imagine that changing unless he improbably goes nuclear in the remaining games.
5. Based on how the SL team has played, what do people see as our biggest area of need for our remaining vet minimum slot?
6. It seems like Josh Giddey and Quentin Grimes are going to stay in Chicago and Philly, respectively, though their salaries are still in question. What do you think is going to happen with Cam Thomas and, especially, Kuminga?
7. Does LeBron get traded this offseason? If so, where?
8. Did anyone else see Superman? If so, what did you think? (I loved it, despite its flaws.)
Best post of the offseason, and an actual look at the complexity of the job, any job really but especially one so intense as an NBA GM. In a more perfect world we’d be discussing this incredibly nuanced job and what it requires in NYC.
For example, would you pursue a talented player, who can get you a ring, but you know he’d be such a pain to deal with that you’d hate him, and your job in maximum 2-3 years?
McCullar is going to turn 25 this season and seemed to be bulldozing to the basket in his 30 pt. performance rather than showing a mixed bag of tricks. I’m not optimistic that it translates.
If that’s your curve and your criteria, then sure. It’s a low curve indeed if making a franchise “relevant” equals “phenomenal” performance.
But if your curve is “GMs across North American sports,” then you will naturally arrive at a different conclusion. That’s my curve, and it’s the same for the vast majority of others.
It would be nice if McCullar was 20. He bears something of a resemblance to fellow Jayhawk Jalen Wilson, last year’s SL MVP but Wilson is better and likely by a material amount. He was a bigger wheel at Kansas and McCullar doesn’t project as the best player in this year’s SL by any stretch.
Wilson was an off-the-bench regular in BKN’s rotation last year, who really didn’t get to the efficiency place you’d like to see. That’s probably above McCullar’s ceiling.
Cam Thomas is going to re-up in BKN, most likely. Kuminga will likely re-up in GS and then be traded, or go somewhere in a sign-and-trade.
Kolek is in a shooting slump that was probbaly caused by the frustration of him getting fouled multiple times on every posession. I’ve played physical pick up games where the every fouls, called or uncalled, was normalized. The higher skilled smaller players looks always looks like crap. Think last game had like 50+ fouls that were actually called.
NBA needs to lower the limit to 4 fouls in SL instead of offering umlimited amounts. Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the behaivor.
It’s hilarious we spend so much time debating something we basically all agree on. Leon is fine and the team has improved greatly but he has made mistakes and may not have us setup for long term success as well as he might have.
This is basically what we all think. Somehow swords are constantly drawn.
Big part of what we do around here. Anyway.
Think it’s very interesting that GMs now stay away from inneficient high scoring guys like Cam Thomas. 10yrs ago, Cam gets a max contract extension without blinking. The chickens have now come home to roost.
I wasn’t all that impressed by what McCullar showed beyond what we already know about him. Seems like the kind of generic small defensive wing that might hang in limited NBA minutes so long as you don’t depend on him for shooting.
I believe someone pointed out (pt?) that McCullar is not eligible for the rookie minimum salary because he played in NBA games last year. He’s have to be given the vet’s minimum spot, and I wouldn’t want that.
I am not impressed at all by Nnaji, he’d have a long way to go just to get to Jericho Sims territory. However, I am very intrigued by Diawara. He’s showing some flashes of NBA-level play and has an OG-type body and motor. The shot needs work but doesn’t look broken. The footwork also needs work. But this kid is going to be an NBA rotation player at some point, I guarantee it! Signing Diawara to the rookie minimum deal would by far be my preference.
No one wanted Brooklyn’s World B. Free BITD, and he wasn’t even all that inefficient.
Association coaches and front offices have never been that fond of me-first chuckers who do nothing else and don’t play defense. There was a time when ticket sales were a way bigger chunk of a franchise’s yearly income statement than they are now in the era of massive shared media deals and so you’d occasionally see a lower level team pick up a “brand name” chucker to try to sell tickets, but even those were few and far between.
“Think it’s very interesting that GMs now stay away from inneficient high scoring guys like Cam Thomas. 10yrs ago, Cam gets a max contract extension without blinking. The chickens have now come home to roost.”
Yeah, doesn’t seem like Cam can do anything but score in bunches, sort of a low-IQ player, but maybe on a team with strong vet leadership he could work on that.
“His agent reportedly told the Cavs it would take $14M to bring him back bc he had an offer for the full MLE. The Cavs didn’t want to pay him that so they traded for Ball instead.
But it turned out Jerome didn’t have an offer at the full MLE. His agent was bluffing to get the Cavs to overpay.”
hubert, where did you learn this? I haven’t been able to verify it, can you provide a link?
(I found ample evidence that Jerome wanted the full MLE and that there were four teams interested, and that pundits mentioned that there was interest in him at that price, but none verifying that his agent claimed to have an offer.)
💯
That’s why there are so many straw man arguments and constant misrepresentations of what people said. Folks have to make shit up to disagree with.
He’s not going to be a primary ball handler in the NBA, so it’s hard to say what translates. When he is on ball, you hope he shows some better playmaking skills. But with the SL team’s shooting, I’m not sure how viable that is.
I was hoping to see him in more of an off-ball role this summer to work on his catch and shoot game. His shot doesn’t look great tbh. He did make a couple moves playing off-ball or attacking after a kick out.
His defense and hustle in transition should translate. I could see him being an acceptable 3rd stringer. He needs to shoot better to be more than that.
I don’t believe McCullar is eligible for the rookie deal because he was on the active roster for a couple games.
I think Diawara has looked good, but not being able to shoot as a wing is a big problem. I think it’s best if he stays in France for a couple years. On the other hand, Nnaji has shown nothing.
I was hoping it would have a little more emotion/slower parts in it. I liked the ones they did have. It was a fun movie and above all else, James Gunn gets Superman and Lex (and Guy Gardner).
I also enjoyed that Lex’s plan made him so engaged in the action sequences and didn’t resort to giving him a giant robot suit or superpowers.
I really want things to workout for DC this time around.
So if we all roughly agree, maybe we don’t need to keep arguing it? Call me crazy, but…
McCullar attacked the rim relentlessly which is something we generally lack, but idk if he can do that against a real NBA team. I think only one of his made baskets wasn’t at the rim.
McCullar is ineligible for the rookie minimum and we shouldn’t use the full vet-minimum on him, but he’s two-way eligible and my guess is that’s how we keep him in tow for now.
I’d say he showed enough to merit that in the summer league games and his G-League/NBA stints. He seems to at least understand what his NBA role would look like if he can actually seize one—getting out in transition, spot up shooting, and being a switchable defender mainly—but the shot looks janky and the non-transition finishing can be an adventure.
But if he’s amenable to a two-way, sure, let him keep working at it.
I’d prefer to use the minimum slot on Nnaji as opposed to Diawara because I think he’s much more likely to be able to give us non-embarrassing NBA minutes in a pinch, but I’m more Diawara curious than I was when I floated the idea we only drafted him as a favor to Yabu’s agent and would like to see what he could do in Westchester. There, we can control his minutes and role, compared to the random smattering he’d get overseas.
Listen, I think you all know I lack the impulse control to avoid being dragged into a prolonged argument. This board is my primary mode of procrastination, and arguing with y’all gives me more dopamine than explaining the tax implications of the big beautiful bill to my high net worth clients.
I don’t complain about Leon to troll the board. I’m venting bc I genuinely believe that these things I discuss are the primary reason we won’t win a championship.
What I would suggest is to simply let me believe that.
Abide my discontent instead of constantly telling me I need to think something else, constantly misquoting me, and constantly telling me that wanting this team to win a championship instead of losing in the playoffs is some “minor nitpick” instead of the whole reason there is a season in the first place.
It’s very tough for internet factions to abide dissent. The internet obviously draws people and sorts for people with the underlying personality traits that lead to that.
I’m just sort of at the place where I’m going to write my thoughts every now and then, occasionally use the most thoughtful of contrary posts and points as my jumping off point, and just ignore all the navel-gazing and meta commentary and efforts at control and forced conformity. I frankly see the latter as an inferior form of social development.
Well, that’s pretty deeply meta. Fine with me.
I certainly don’t need to talk about Leon Rose for a while.
As for McC, I can’t get excited about anyone who is older than 25 and on a two way (Hubert I am setting you or Jowles up for a joke here about “over 25 and not in a bikini.”) Guys like that breaking out is something that only happens in baseball like with Big Dumper.
Z-Man I heard it on the Zach Lowe podcast. I’m not surprised there is no story about it, it’s not exactly newsworthy.
Not hugely impressed by McCullar. He actually made baskets, which I guess is a skill (certainly largely lacking from the rest of the roster), but very few of his baskets made me think, “Nice.” It was more like, “Thank god SOMEone scored.”
I will read nothing that has James in the title, even if it’s about the English rock band from the 80s or the recent book about Huck Finn told from Jim’s perspective. It is otherwise specious click-bait designed to keep certain individuals in the news cycle.
Kolek gets two more games to lose the headband and show something. I’ve gone from Bring It On-level cheerleader to Manchester by the Sea-level depressive. But two more games, Tyler. Do it.
Going to Superman with Lady Raven on an actual date tonight. Will read your review tomorrow…
As I said earlier in the offseason, I would like to have the same freedom to bitch about Leon’s wastefulness as Al has to bitch about the Knicks in a game thread. No one actually engages him when he’s doing it because we all know it’s Al and he’ll come to his senses when the buzzer sounds.
The irony is you guys think I’m trolling you when I really just want to find one or two people who feel the same way in that particular moment so I can commiserate with them. That is one of the larger goals of having a community.
The arguments I get into are frankly like relapses for an alcoholic. They are the last thing I want to do, but the addictive cycle of “opening the thread, seeing something that incites me, responding to it, repeat” is pretty tough to break. I quit smoking 20 years ago and that was easier.
It would be less of a breakout and more being healthy enough to play
This “abide my discontent” stuff is a crock of bullshit. No one here cares all that much about whether folks are contented or discontented. What they do care about is annoying, repetitive, condescending, patronizing, agenda-driven, axe-grinding venting that derails threads. Everyone who regularly posts here knows how certain posters feel about certain things.
They also don’t appreciate the broad-brushing “me against the world” nonsense that blurs the lines between posters having disparate positions on myriad topics and lumps them into black and white camps…if you don’t hate these things that Leon has done, you must be a shill or a stan.
What folks also take issue with is when rumor and innuendo is peddled off as fact.
“Z-Man I heard it on the Zach Lowe podcast. I’m not surprised there is no story about it, it’s not exactly newsworthy.”
Can you give me a link to that podcast? I’d like to hear the wording.
No sale. The things that are seen to “derail threads” (and all of the other adjectives in the list) are invariably things that don’t accept the full consensus.
Hubert, I actually really appreciate your honest takes about yourself. I commiserate to some degree (this is also my only on-line vent spot).
However, I thought E hit on something of interest. He said, “… and just ignore all the navel-gazing and meta commentary and efforts at control and forced conformity.”
That, to me, is hubris of the highest order. Most posters engage in good faith here (not all, and not always, I’ve gone bleach a few times myself). The utter refusal to even consider “Hey, maybe I’m wrong,” or even the more plausible “Maybe my take is oversimplified or impossible to actually prove” is sort of amazing to me, as is the utter dismissal of all other positions and opinions, often subtle and sometimes even in partial agreement. It’s, well, just sad.
Like when you derailed the most celebratory thread of the last 25 years with “Z-Man’s drunken anti-Hubert agenda”?
Buddy you have driven more people away than an uber driver. Mind the plank in your eye first.
“As I said earlier in the offseason, I would like to have the same freedom to bitch about Leon’s wastefulness as Al has to bitch about the Knicks in a game thread. No one actually engages him when he’s doing it because we all know it’s Al and he’ll come to his senses when the buzzer sounds.”
This is not true, other posters, including myself, have taken issue with BBA’s off-the-beam game takes, even comparing him to Pags. Even so, there’s a huge difference between reacting to something that just happened and continually bringing up what happened 3 years ago. I have never heard BBA say “this is the worst loss ever, and it happened because Leon traded out of the 19th pick instead of selecting Jalen Johnson!”
“The arguments I get into are frankly like relapses for an alcoholic…”
I would guess that anyone who has had to deal with alcoholics having relapses would tell you that it’s a miserable experience for all involved, except maybe the alcoholic himself and his alcoholic buddies. So in that sense, you’re spot on!
Alan, I got information on Fois from this:
https://basketnews.com/news-227845-riccardo-fois-new-knicks-assistant-coach.html
This article takes about him and Bridges
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/knicks-to-hire-riccardo-fois-to-coaching-staff.html
Alan should now have the answer to his query.
Knicks Fan, many thanks for the Fois gras bits. I was mildly curious but not enough to search — getting it on a platter was greatly appreciated.
Interesting re Bridges, who I do think we largely have meta commentary, navel-gazing consensus across the board that he has to do something more/better next year. A MIkal-Whisperer would be a very good thing.
I’m trying super hard not to make a follow-on Pate joke…
My achilles heal is the misrepresentation. For instance, when someone responds to “we should have more depth given the amount of draft picks we’ve had” by acting like I said Leon has done a terrible overall job as Knicks GM it seems to override by sensibility and makes me see red.
I don’t think it’s bad faith, per se, but it makes me think people are preloaded and eager to draw, so much so that they’ll perform the mental gymnastics necessary to take something benign and turn it into something outrageous.
“Like when you derailed the most celebratory thread of the last 25 years with “Z-Man’s drunken anti-Hubert agenda”?”
Yeah, got called out for it and didn’t do it again.
“Buddy you have driven more people away than an uber driver. Mind the plank in your eye first.”
There are two posters who you are referring to. One is Bruno, who I apologized to and who seems to be cool with me since, and the other is djphan, who left after a wide swath of posters pounced on him for his posting, and at a time when I hadn’t interacted with him in months. So by my count, that’s a total of 0 posters who I’ve actually driven away.
But case-in-point, this again is the typical defensive broad-brushing blame-the-workld exaggeration you (and, coincidentally, relapsing alcoholics) traffic in.
So did we decide we do not need another big? Because the Bullets waived Richaun Holmes, who was at one point merely cromulent.
Apparently Ben Simmons and Shamet are both being considered for the last roster spot. I wish we could fuse the best parts of each together to make one pretty good player…
Z-Man resorting to “you’re an alcoholic” to fend off callings out of his bullshit.
Classy. Such “good faith.” The “good faith” done spillith over.
“Z-Man resorting to “you’re an alcoholic” to fend off callings out of his bullshit.
Classy. Such “good faith.””
Naah, didn’t call anyone an alcoholic, just agreeing with hubert’s analogy. But congrats for once again providing more evidence of the hypocrisy of you and hubert calling out posters for willfully misrepresenting you.
You’re doing it right now.
Z-Man’s delusions about who and what “derails threads” are actually somewhat charming.
“So did we decide we do not need another big? Because the Bullets waived Richaun Holmes, who was at one point merely cromulent.”
I think he’d be fine as a backup big. Probably better than Huk right now. But Huk has some upside, so I’d probably use that last vet’s spot on a PG.
“Apparently Ben Simmons and Shamet are both being considered for the last roster spot. I wish we could fuse the best parts of each together to make one pretty good player…”
Tell you what, if Ben Simmons’s back was not a mess, he might be a pretty good player to have on the floor with Clarkson. The FT issue is pretty egregious, but if he can be strictly a 10mpg beginning of 1st and 4th Q guy, his defense could come in handy.
But I think the ship on his back has sailed. Probably a waste of a spot.
with kolek looking like hes looking it looks like backup pg might be a much more important role to fill lets keep wright
Given how bad Kolek looks, a PG may be more necessary…
Yup, E twisting the story line to suit himself. Hubert (bravely) called out his behavior to make the alcoholic analogy. So time to go looks for a BA class, E (Bleach Anonymous).
Hubert, I understand the struggle with misrepresentation. I think, however, the ‘front-office’ arguments, or more particularly the Leon arguments, are very hard to pull off without leaning too far in one direction or another. Partly because as Donnie said so brilliantly, it’s really hard (impossible) to know all the actual variables that go into any decision at that level (and behind such firmly closed doors).
So you can say “Leon’s great” (got us to the ECFs so quickly) and “Leon’s made future-damaging mistakes that limit us” (draft pics, etc.) and both may be right.
Although I’ll just point out that the first, at least the result, is indisputable (I suppose you can argue the why), while the second is guessing about the future, which is a take, certainly, but entirely remains to be seen and could be entirely wrong.
FWIW, Raven, I am always willing to consider that maybe I’m wrong, and in fact I am keenly aware that many of my takes are oversimplified and impossible to prove.
The thing is I’m not actually trying to prove them, I just want to express them.
Is Precious still with us, and/or going to stay with us? I can’t find any actual news one way or the other.
We have KAT, Mitch, Huk, and Yabu. If Precious stays, that’s a glut of bigs. Given Mitch’s injury history and KAT’s tendency to smash into people on drives (seeming to lead to many minor injuries around ankles and fingers and such), maybe that’s a good thing.
To answer an earlier Alan question, I’d rather see Diawara stay on this side of the pond, only for selfish reasons in that I find it much easier to track progress (or lack thereof) here, than overseas.
I’m ethically and duty bound to tell the truth and not misrepresent anything on pain of losing my professional license and have been for multiple decades — but I’ve never stopped to think that what I say might be wrong.
OK, lol.
“Is Precious still with us, and/or going to stay with us? I can’t find any actual news one way or the other.”
My understanding is that he’s a UFA and that we have his Bird rights. I’m guessing that he will not be back, and I wouldn’t be in favor of bringing him back on the minimum, but there are things I like about him so if he happens to stay, I’d be just mildly disappointed.
Exactly. Very simple to understand.
Rest assured that there are no delusions among several of us about the susceptibility to proof of many in the audience.
“I’m ethically and duty bound to tell the truth and not misrepresent anything on pain of losing my professional license and have been for multiple decades — but I’ve never stopped to think that what I say might be wrong.
OK, lol.”
OMG this is the the most laughable defense of one’s KB posting character ever!
If you stopped to think every time you wrote something wrong, you’d be frozen like Narcissus. Probably best for you if you just carry on oblivious. More entertaining, too.
I admit I’m Simmons curious. He could play point in a pinch and guard well. Can’t shoot, but if he weren’t hurt so the time I might even advocate for signing him. (Assuming PG3 wouldn’t come.)
I’m a bit anxious about what happens if JB misses real time.
not sure who pg3 is chris paul is cp3 and paul george is pg13 so i guess this is chris paul george
This is a self-aware observation to make, but your request isn’t reasonable. You want to post what you want on a public forum but never receive negative feedback for it? It doesn’t work like that.
A journal might work better for you.
I’m disappointed. I’m not throwing in the towel, but I’d feel better about the team if we had another true PG. Clarkson is less of a PG than Payne.
I think Kuminga is very overrated on his current productivity. Kerr seems to realize that. They probably don’t want to pay him as much as he wants, but there’s always the risk that a young player like him will put it all together. So pay him or trade him is a difficult decision.
This is the kind of decision that comes up from time to time when you draft very young players. It’s not much different than us with RJ.
Offering up something explicitly conceptualized as “negative feedback” to trivial, innocuous statements like “I don’t think Leon Rose has handled the draft very well” is an option, not a law of the cosmos. It says far more about the negative feedbacker than it does the innocuous statement maker.
Unfortunately, the personality type yearning to offer up “negative feedback” to others tends to gravitate towards the internet.
“I admit I’m Simmons curious.”
A no from me, rama. I look at the last roster spots’ value as break glass in case of emergency, so they better not have a decent likelihood of being on the DL. But I see your viewpoint in that if healthy he’s in the rotation fringes so a value signing. Just think the sports preventative medicine on back issues is in the dark ages when compared with joint or even feet issues.
I think you can, in fact, dispute it, Raven. But I’ll have to give you some background first.
Consider this: when I get reviewed for my performance, the criteria is never as simple as “do I have more money today than I did before.” That’s the criteria by which you assert Leon’s success is indisputable. The Knicks are winning more than they used to.
But that is just not a position that resonates with me personally based on my experience.
In my life, someone would look at me and say “how much of that performance is attributable to Nvidia”, and if it turns out to be a great deal, then my very small decisions would be picked apart to determine my value. And I have to justify and defend every single one of them, even (especially) the seemingly inconsequential ones.
Noble said this yesterday:
And that is his legitimate, fair, and reasonable perspective.
But from my perspective, I’ve never seen a statement so wrong. Because this is literally all that ever happens in my world.
I get no credit for allocating 20% of a client’s funds back in 2020 into an aggressive growth fund with a 900% return bc it invested heavily in an obscure tech company that manufactures and designs GPUs and SoCs. My greatest success is eliminated off the top and I am judged instead by the 2Q tax alpha or the risk-adjusted return of the 2% allocation to Emerging Markets relative to its benchmark.
So it really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that I view guys like Leon through that same prism. Brunson is his Nvidia to me. Congratulations, now show me what you did with the 13 draft picks.
Mine’s not a wrong perspective, just a different one.
Simmons would be a health risk and is obviously a spacing issue, but IMO we need someone else that can run the offense unless Kolek magically turns it around and gives a bit of a confidence boost that he can play backup.
I could seee him as an end of the bench player, but he’d have to improve his shooting for me to think he could have some kind of impact for us.
I do want a PG, but we have enough questionable shooters that I wouldn’t want Simmons as my first choice.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but would rather not get into this debate.
I’m way too lazy to trace the steps of all our picks because I think a lot of those debates were about giving up current pennies for future flexibility and some of the rest was “red boarding” the draft or just luck. In other words, a big tadoo about nothing.
I do want to make one counter point.
Shai was Sam Presti’s Nvidia or he’d still be rebuiding and trying to trade for a #1 option.
For those that don’t know (probably most of you), “red boarding” is a term horseplayers use to describe someone that is explaining how easy it was to pick the winner AFTER the race was already run.
It’s a perspective borne of just getting rolling in your career. Much as was “Leon fired Thibs because if Dolan fired him, Leon would have resigned.”
He’s very smart and so will unquestionably learn and twenty years from now will see things differently.
But in point of fact, no one when it matters, takes “accomplishments” on their superficial face. If someone’s CV says, “Worked on Smith case which received $500 million verdict,” the natural question is “What was your role on the case?” And it then goes from there. If they start hemming and hawing, and it becomes clear they didn’t do much, it becomes time to move on.
“Attracted Jalen Brunson to the Knicks” loses a lot of luster upon that kind of further examination. Sorry, negative feedbackers — you’re just going to have to deal.
Fair enough, Hubert. I can’t argue with the perception that comes from your work (which is barely comprehensible to me, I’ll be honest). My ‘indisputable’ bit was only that they did, in fact, get to the ECF. While the ‘disputable’ parts are that Leon’s mistakes have hamstrung us from ever getting us a chip. Which might be true, or you know, might not.
I can’t believe I’m pulling us back into Leonland. Okay, hard no on Simmons. It’s less the ‘spacing’ case, which is super legitimate, than the ‘space case.’ I don’t even want that career .139 from three guy sitting sullenly at the end of the bench.
Kolek – I just cant get away from the fact that he looks like a high schooler out there. I know he is slightly bulked up but I just don’t see it, while loving Kolekmania anyway.
Richaun Holmes has always been a guy whose statline I admired from afar without watching him pretty much at all. Is he a no defense big with nice stats? A Daniel Gafford guy? Have never been able to tell. He’d be a fine addition to the end of our bench I think in the abstract.
And yeah, always been Simmons curious, just because he is a big impact defender when healthy. But I have no idea if it’s a good idea. He hasn’t looked right in so long.
It would be hilarious if we put him out there with Mitch, that is for sure…
I can’t talk myself into Simmons either. But who’s a better PG option? It does now feel like a position of need, despite the fragility of our bigs and the better players available at other positions …
What’s seen as “unknowable” or a “prediction about the future” really isn’t that either — but instead is just a restatement of the obvious and axiomatic, which is that a team with a better roster will have a better chance to win a championship, all else equal, than a team with a worse one.
It does seem like an unreasonable request when you put it like that.
But I wasn’t really asking for “no negative feedback” when I suggested you let me hold my opinion. I mentioned two things in particular that I think tend to “derail threads”:
1. Opinion policing, i.e. “you can’t think that, Leon’s indisputably good and all of us must appreciate him or say nothing.”
2. Misrepresenting statements in order to incite, i.e. taking “we should have more depth” and responding with “it’s ridiculous that you came on here today and said Leon’s a terrible NBA executive.”
Do you think those are two crucial pillars that a public forum can’t do without?
Early Bird and Noble are good examples of posters who frequently provide negative feedback but never derail threads bc they’re usually just trying to disprove a specific point that was actually stated.
And DRed is the best at it because he just drives by, points his gun out the window, shoots you in the leg before speeding away.
Nobody really does this. Here’s to another gross, self-serving mischaracterization of the reactions to your and E’s posting!
You mean the thing that you and E do more than anyone else? Gotcha.
“Negative feedback” is a bit of an odd term; I certainly wouldn’t include within it, “disagreeing with one’s take about basketball stuff.” EB disagrees with much of what I say about basketball, but I don’t even see that as “negative,” much less “negative feedback.”
He obviously isn’t a thread derailer, either.
I agree with Hubert’s 1 and 2.
“Early Bird and Noble are good examples of posters who frequently provide negative feedback but never derail threads bc they’re usually just trying to disprove a specific point that was actually stated.”
Um, didn’t you just accuse Noble of doing just that?
Let the quickening commence.
“Don’t call it an Incineration!!”
So expressing one’s opinion on the semantics of “incineration” in light of what actually happened is the same as saying, “you can’t think that, Leon’s indisputably good and all of us must appreciate him or say nothing!”?
Of course it is, because you are “ethically and duty bound to tell the truth and not misrepresent anything on pain of losing my professional license and have been for multiple decades…”
Hubert, I don’t think I mischaracterized your statements at all. I generally tend to be low-key and simply said, please back up your statements. In various posts you said that other execs ran circles around Leon and a prime example was wasting 12 draft picks. I said that each pick was its own story, and lumping them together like that was specious argumentation. You never then supported your argument, instead switching to lamenting how your position was mischaracterized.
I mean, it’s possible I didn’t get it, but I didn’t make any of the broad claims about your position you’re stating. And you didn’t back up your position because it’s just venting and you shouldn’t be accountable for it or something? Then why should I take anything you say seriously?
As for your job analogy, I’m sorry to hear that. Getting it right on the big things is actually what makes a business work, so it’s pretty stupid if clients discount that for marginal crap. In the entertainment world, it’s like saying “yeah, you signed The Rolling Stones, but how did you miss Per-Olov Kindgren?”
I was very Simmons curious until he couldn’t make it work with the Clippers. Not sure there’s a better situation for him than that.
Still, isn’t his floor like a super Delon Wright? I would pay good money to watch him, OG, and Mitch play defense.
i would pay good money to watch bridges play defense at all
No. They’re two different forms of opinion policing.
1. The demand for consensus — “Leon’s indisputably good, all of us must agree or shut up.”
2. The type in which you have become a decorated master — “I kind of agree with you or don’t really disagree, but when you talk about it, you have to paint within the precise lines I lay out.” Incineration, Thibs, Leon, you name it. KAT yesterday.
We can all easily see the net result of the “12 draft picks.” It’s not like you have to dig deep into some mysterious recesses to see who’s on the Knick roster now and how they got here.
Rama, I didn’t mean to suggest you were the culprit here. There was a minor misrepresentation yesterday but I didn’t think it was very significant.
(FWIW I said “we currently have nothing to show for the 8th & 33rd picks in ’20 and the 19th & 21st picks in ’21”, and you quoted me as saying “we have nothing to show for 12 picks”.)
(FWIW pt 2 I thought your points about the nuances of what using some picks to create room for other things were valid but they don’t really disagree with me. We may have cleared Obi to make room for Donte but it’s not reasonable to consider Donte our return for the 8th pick in 2020.)
“2. The type in which you have become a decorated master — “I kind of agree with you or don’t really disagree, but when you talk about it, you have to paint within the precise lines I lay out.” Incineration, Thibs, Leon, you name it.”
Everyone is free to paint anything however they want, so long as they are okay with any criticism coming back their way. I’ve never called for anyone to be banned or muzzled. I do, however, recall you and hubert self-imposing a 5-post limit on yourselves. Is it too late to thank you for that all-too-brief moment of self-awareness?
No, you just hurl your parade of Horribles — “annoying, repetitive, condescending, patronizing, agenda-driven, axe-grinding venting that derails threads,” for example — 27 times per month for five years.
Simmons has reached the point where it’s beyond dispute that he’s unplayable in the playoffs. I think I might rather give that slot to Delon, who might be able to occasionally throw the ball at the basket and make it go in. Simmons is tempting because he still stuffs the box score, but overall he just never seems to add up to something all that useful.
I’d probably take a shot at Simmons. Stranger things have happened in basketball and other sports than a worthy bounce-back to far closer to peak for a guy that talented.
Always better to take a risk on some upside.
lol I edited him out before you wrote that. Although his last minute defense in games 1 & 2 vs Boston was pretty entertaining.
I appreciate the sentiment but that really wasn’t the perspective I was trying to show. I actually think it’s correct to discount beta and outliers like Nvidia’s 1200% return.
I wasn’t saying “hurt people hurt people”, but that I believe in this type of analysis.
In terms of Hubert’s spot-on example, with which I’m familiar, the return on Jalen Brunson was the quintessential “unexpected return.” Z-Man accuses me of calling people shills and stans even though I pretty much never do, but in this case I will, though I won’t make it personal.
If you actually believe Leon Rose outguessed the market consensus in the Jalen Brunson transaction, you’re shilling.
“Beta” for Leon would be taking what he inherited — including a second-team all-NBA caliber player, a ton of cap space, and two extra ones — and projecting out a standard “return” for that after five years, adjusted for the front-loading he’s done by trading away almost all the future draft picks.
He really didn’t do much the first year other than just bring everyone back and draft a couple guys who played bench minutes.
That team won 47 games, both real and pythag. This year’s team, five years out from that, projects in Vegas at 52.5.
Has he really generated anything above “beta” in that extra 5.5 wins, when adjusted for the future gaps in draft picks? Very sound argument that he hasn’t. To the extent he has, it’s really all just a product of the unexpected returns on the Brunson transaction.
So he’s really generated beta, but either no, or accidental, alpha.
If I was a family office or HNW investor, I wouldn’t be steering money Leon’s way on that track record. I can get beta just by throwing it in the S&P (in basketball terms, the replacement-level GM.)
Good one. 🙂
I’ve actually paid good money to see Bridges not play defense.
No, you just hurl your parade of Horribles — “annoying, repetitive, condescending, patronizing, agenda-driven, axe-grinding venting that derails threads,” for example — 27 times per month for five years.
Another exaggeration, but whatever. I hereby retract any of those adjectives that don’t accurately reflect the nature of your posting.
I have no issue with that. I just don’t have enough faith in Kolek to be the backup based on SL and don’t want to give the job to Clarkson or Deuce. So imo we need someone.
Maybe if Mitch starts and Hart is on the bench he can run the offense a bit with those guys, but I’d rather have a proven PG than some combo or scoring guard pretending he can run an offense. I wasn’t thrilled with Payne as a PG. I see him as more of energy scorer that can make some plays. Clarkson is even more of that and less of a real PG imo. Then again, I’m old. Maybe I’m just too old school, but I like guys that seem to run the offense first and score second unless they are great scorers.
“Z-Man accuses me of calling people shills and stans even though I pretty much never do…”
license revoked!!
Just to continue respectfully with Rama: I said “He’s been good enough to swim with the sharks but he’s getting badly outmaneuvered by Sam Presti, Kevin Pritchard, Brad Stephens, Rafael Stone, etc now that he’s here”
I think that’s a really benign statement. Those are the 4 best GMs in the game right now. It’s like saying Jalen Brunson’s good but not as good as Giannis, Jokic, and Luka.
Also, you keep claiming I said “Leon wasted 12 draft picks”, but I didn’t. I said Leon’s had 13 draft picks in the top 40 and our roster depth does not reflect that level of abundance. It’s a completely different statement, one that I don’t think is very objectionable.
Other execs *have* run circles around Leon. Lottery night ’22, the relative prices for OG and Siakam, five 1s for Bridges, etc.
Not really sure why this is denied and fought so vociferously.
[Alan returns from writing about the Emmy nominations to check the comments]
So apparently I was crazy. Oh, well.
“If you actually believe Leon Rose outguessed the market consensus in the Jalen Brunson transaction, you’re shilling.”
Well I posted on the day of the transaction that I thought Brunson had a great chance to become a PG on a level with Kyle Lowry and FVV. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Leon saw the same thing. That said, I don’t think even Brunson himself envisioned himself becoming a top-5 offensive player in the NBA. So if anyone is saying that Leon foresaw that, whether it makes them a shill or not, that’s highly unlikely.
“…including a second-team all-NBA caliber player”
Here you go talking out of both sides of your mouth again. You vehemently argued that Julius was never valued that highly around the league. For example, could a team ever have gotten the return for Julius that they did in that time frame for Spida? Or Lillard? Or Jrue? Or Brown? Or KAT? So stop trying to inflate Randle’s value in the team-building process.
“He really didn’t do much the first year other than just bring everyone back and draft a couple guys who played bench minutes.”
Did anyone actually applaud that strategy?
“Has he really generated anything above “beta” in that extra 5.5 wins, when adjusted for the future gaps in draft picks? Very sound argument that he hasn’t. To the extent he has, it’s really all just a product of the unexpected returns on the Brunson transaction.”
As I pointed out yesterday in a long post, his track record from where he started and what he inherited to the present is similar to, if not substantially better than the executives for Miami, Toronto, Philly, and a bunch of others. Is Masai now “replacement level” too? Riley? Morey?
And to be clear, I have called the Bridges trade a massive blunder…the kind that a top-tier GM would never, ever make. I felt the same way about the package that was offered for Spida, i.e that Cleveland saved Leon from himself. (I liked the deal better for CLE because they had more assets to spare.) Where does that fall under your long-held and oft-stated view that I’m a Leon shill?
Alan, the bright side is that Mike K probably likes that there’s lots of posting traffic during this dead zone in the NBA continuum. But I’ve always respected your polite way of reflecting that a conversation was getting tedious and annoying, so I’ll leave it here and move on to other topics.
Well, that’s quite impressive of you. The issue, though — the … you know … “unexpected return” — is that he became way better than that.
You’re again agreeing, while at the same time being disagreeing or disagreeable. See the pattern?
Option 1: “Hmm, unexpected return. That’s perhaps a formulation of describing it that I haven’t though of before and, yeah, he actually is better than even my optimistic contemporaneous thoughts on him.”
Option 2: [What you just did.]
Yeah, I know — that’s why I already said it and called it an “unexpected return.” Leon might have in his dreams seen Kyle Lowry or Fred Van Vleet and got Jalen Brunson.
So what are you arguing about again?
And to reiterate — that unexpected return is really all that separates Leon from replacement level (and all that separates the Knicks from purgatory-ish floundering).
Leon and the Knicks got lucky. I for one happen to think that the Knicks deserved the luck. You may think they didn’t deserve it; I don’t know. But that’s what happened.
It is getting pretty boring when three quarters of the posts are posters calling out other posters about posts the other posters posted about a topic that no longer warrants posts. But certain posters need to make sure their post is the last post.
Almost rather go back to debating Leon’s draft acumen.
Just don’t engage with E and it’s not so bad, but when people do and it goes back and forth all day it’s brutal.
Funny E used to show up for a post or two every now and then – if that was his MO for half his comments I’d gladly suffer through the rest. But alas…
The number of comments has become a clickbait. I see 98 and think something happened. But noooooooo….
Maybe I’m biased from my experience in entertainment, but each branch is a hit-based business, which is why so much bad behavior was tolerated in the past from those who could make hits happen. Find hits, everything works. The margins don’t really matter (unless you publish James Joyce, or sign a young Wes Anderson, or take on Leonard Cohen … over time, those can be career-making relationships, too).
But mostly it’s about hits, bestsellers, etc. So the finance perspective is weird to me.
No way Bridges was worth what we paid, but that’s different than saying it was a massive blunder that no top tier GM would ever make.
We probably shouldn’t debate this any further because it has already been debated to death and we don’t know for sure what Leon thought.
However, he traded for Mikal before he knew I-Hart was defintely gone.
At that point it looked like the final “all in” move. It’s more forgivable to overpay for the final piece.
I-Hart/Mitch, Randle, OG, Bridges, Brunson with J-Hart/DDV on the bench would have been in the finals and a real threat to beat OKC.
Leon and everyone else knew OKC was interested and might make an offer above ours, but we also knew the estimated fair market value, that I-Hart loved NY, that he would have more opportunities here and had a wife that would probably prefer it here.
So for a couple of million more he would probably stay.
No one anywhere predicted OKC would blow our offer out the water. That’s a million times different than saying they might beat our offer.
The very fact that they did suggests that he turned them down for a few more million. So they upped the offer and went all in on him as the final piece to their puzzle.
IMO Leon miscalulated on I-Hart
Then had to find a replacement C. That’s when he threw in the towel on a straight Randle for Towns swap and gave up DDV too. He had to or we’d be giving up the season with Simms as the starting C.
As for the conversation, I think all of Alan’s questions have been answered today! Except maybe Superman, which I am actually looking forward to.
I’m also looking forward to your piece about the Emmys, Alan. Particularly about Severance, which has faded for me over time…I think they just withheld a bit too much for it to continue resonating, despite the artistry and thoughtfulness. A lot depends on them bringing it home – if they don’t stick the landing, it’ll be a huge disappointment.
Cam Thomas is actually kind of interesting to me, he’s very much not my kind of player but I think he might be better than consensus opinion. With the caveat that he only played about 800 minutes last year league average efficiency at his usage on a bozo team is pretty impressive. He stinks on defense, and I don’t know if his tunnel vision would work for a real offense, but he’s not just a chucker he’s a very skilled offensive player.
Are we really sure that the delta between prime Jalen Brunson and prime Kyle Lowry is all that great? Lowry was an all-star for 6 straight years and 3rd team All-NBA. For his 5 seasons between ages 27-31 posted BPMs of 4.7, 3.0, 5.8, 6.1, and 5.2. He was an excellent defensive player, even at his height.
I’d take Brunson over Lowry, but I do think that some folks tend to overvalue offense and undervalue defense in rating individual players.
Yes! This is exactly how I see it.
Folks like Z-Man always like to say that Leon Rose inherited a terrible situation because the Knicks had a bad roster and Vegas thought they were going to have a terrible record.
But let’s use the same exact logic and apply it to a different situation without any emotional attachment.
Imagine Leon Rose took over the Oklahoma City Thunder in the summer of 2022. They had the third worst record in basketball the previous year. And Vegas projected they would win just 23.5 games.*
I dare anyone to raise their hand and declare that stepping into the OKC Thunder in 2022 was a terrible situation. And frankly if Leon Rose had stepped in to that team at that time and guided it to two 50 win seasons and a couple of second round exits, I would not be impressed.
I mean do folks think Bryan Colangelo did a great job in Philadelphia because he had a better record than Sam Hinkie? Of course not. They judge him against the tremendous wealth of assets he inherited.
*https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_preseason_odds.html
In my current line of work the hits come from just being in the market so you have to add value on the margins. Minimizing taxes is the name of the game.
In my previous incarnation as a trader it was all about absolute return.
“No way Bridges was worth what we paid, but that’s different than saying it was a massive blunder that no top tier GM would ever make.”
I agree that even excellent execs make terrible decisions, ones that you don’t need to cherry-pick to identify. I don’t think the strategy was bad (using a slew of picks to trade for a stud that will put us over the top) but the tactical decision (Mikal is that guy) was dubious from the get-go. I can’t imagine that anyone was offering anything close to that amount for Mikal, and it seems pretty obvious that Leon was bidding against himself. Whereas, we have clear evidence that Leon was not bidding against himself in the Spida negotiations. In the gray area we have the OG negotiations….both the trade and the extension. I think good arguments can be made either way on those….what doesn’t pass the smell test is that RJ had more value around the NBA than the value he represented in that trade. But did OG’s agents plant out there that other teams were preparing a big offer for him in free agancy? It wouldn’t surprise me at all.
The thing is that Leon Rose really did seem to believe that the market was undervaluing Jalen Brunson, and acted on that belief. Also the trade price for OG has been cited as a reason Masai Ujiri lost his job.
You can’t just write off people disagreeing about specific, obviously incorrect claims as “demand for consensus.” Sometimes, oftentimes, a given poster is just wrong. Pointing this out is not a pursuit of consensus. It’s just discussion.
I mean, we had posters who were absolutely certain trading Cam Reddish and the 23rd pick in the 2023 draft for Josh Hart was a disaster. It’s not “demanding consensus” to point out that specific critique was wrong based on the information we had at the time, and has aged laughably.
All this to say, most people here are perfectly comfortable critiquing Leon, or anyone else for that matter. But critiques that are wrong well get called out as, well, wrong, and that’s not the result of some kind of attitudinal disposition. It’s just calling a wrong opinion wrong.
Do you really think that is what I’m calling “demand for consensus”?
Or do you think maybe it was something more like this literal demand for consensus: “Folks, Leon needs to be cherished, celebrated and appreciated.”
I don’t think what Leon inherited even remotely compares to what Presti inherited…especially in that Presti inherited a situation of his own creation and was mid-process. He’s also maybe winds up in the GOAT GM running, so I will gladly concede that Leon is not in his league.
Pretty much everyone here was down on Colangelo, but compare that to what Morey, an experienced, highly regarded GM, inherited. He took over a team that had a 43-30 record, a future MVP, a pre-meltdown Ben Simmons, and surpous picks. Since then, he topped out at 54 wins and a second round exit. His big all-in moves were James Harden and Paul George. They are firmly entrenched in purgatory, save a miraculous recovery from both Embiid and PG13.
Since Leon was hired, what has the great Masai Ujiri done (besides “fleece” the Knicks in the OG trade?) The Raps have won 27, 48 41, 25, and 30 games and Masai finally got shitcanned.
“Folks, Leon needs to be cherished, celebrated and appreciated.”
This is a pretty innocuous statement, in the context of the 20 years of bad road that Knicks fans have driven since Allan Houston and Marcus Camby. It wasn’t a demand for conformity or obedience. Just a guy saying, in a different way, the same thing that JK47 recently posted.
Here we go [eye roll emoji].
Tell me which statement accurately reflects what I said:
A. The situation Leon Rose inherited is the same as the situation Sam Presti inherited.
or
B. The logic of judging a GM’s position based on wins the previous season and projected wins in vegas is faulty, and I will give you an example.
It was quite clearly B, not A
So why exactly are you pretending I said A and writing a response to something no one said?
(Mind you, you’ve spent the whole day claiming this never happens, and you just did it.)
Relied to his great detriment on a nucleus that looked good on paper but didn’t work on the court. The Knicks gave up a lot of assets to get a member of that nucleus and things didn’t really work that great defensively or fit-wise in his first full year with the team.
And then a new main boss took over at the corporate level and as happens all the time, put his own stamp on the most senior levels of his main reports. The Maple Leafs also moved out their Masai.
In theory, I’d like a real point guard more than either Simmons or Shamet. But is there a point guard on the market who would come here who’s better than them? Chris Paul wants to start.
Spotrac’s top ranked available FA point guards:
Brogdon
CP3
Gary Payton II
Russell Westbrook
Cory Joseph
Patty Mills
OAKAAK Cam Payne
OAKAAK Delon Wright
Monte Morris
Dalano Banton
Jared Butler (remember when we debated about drafting him?)
Jeff Dowtin
Ben Simmons
Markelle Fultz
OAKAAK Elfrid Payton
Just finished watching Superman, definitely an interesting take on the character and storyline but certainly an entertaining movie.
I like Gary Payton II a lot.
But I imagine if you’re him and you’re taking the minimum, the most valuable thing is playing time. It may seem to him with Deuce and Clarkson here that we’ve got his best positions covered.
Wouldn’t Fultz be a great signing to be a backup PG? I thought he disappointed the teams that expected a lot from him, like being a worthy #1 pick, or even being a good starting PG.
Tell me which statement accurately reflects what I said:
Sorry Hubie but got to call you out because of your incessant shit and drivel (words you used yesterday to describe me) today. Z-man is making a point in response to the issues raised in your post and has no obligation to accurately describe what you said or directly respond to what you said. The fact that his post does not conform with what you said is neither here nor there. Except to you who is obsessed with being misrepresented and straw man arguments. Get a fucking grip and let people post what they like based upon the ideas your posts highlight.
What a fun and engaging thread
Okay, fine. Time for a new Question of the Day:
What is the best sandwich, and why?
My dark horse PG is Rokas. He’s reportedly looking to leave Tel Aviv for obvious non-basketball reasons a person would not want to play in Tel Aviv right now. That said, he’s supposedly close to signing with Bayern Munich.
With Kolek floundering, it makes more sense to bring Rokas in as a young-ish guard. It won’t happen, but I want to see what he has in the NBA.
Butler or Monte Morris might be fine as 3rd string guards in case Clarkson gets injured or struggles running the offense.
“Z-Man’s method of judging a situation based on projected wins in vegas is faulty, and I will give you an example.”
This is an oversimplification of the situations. The reasons why the Knicks situation was far worse beyond the projections (which is just one of many pieces of evidence) is because they had a fucking terrible roster and two excess firsts, one of which was top-10 protected which conveyed at #24 and one that conveyed at #21. The Thunder had been building through the top of the draft and trading out max vets for loads of picks.
Presti is probably the best executive of this era. He had already acquired a future MVP and a bunch of unprotected picks by fleecing the Rockets in the Russ trade, then fleeced the Clippers in the Paul George trade.
I can’t say what Leon would have done if he inherited that situation, although I’m quite confident that he wouldn’t have done as well as potential GOAT Sam Presti. I do, however think that if you put the majority of other GMs in charge of the Knicks’ shitty roster and post-Phil/Mills clown show in 2020, and keeping the constraints of working for Dolan in mind, they would not have fared much better than Rose did, at least until Julius blew out his shoulder in 2024. We can quibble about how big a part the Brunson maneuver played, but as JK pointed out, the scoreboard speaks for itself.
Can’t go wrong with a reuben with extra sauerkraut
Except no they didn’t because the roster had a second-team all-NBA guy on it and won 47 games with very few changes beyond putting in a good coach.
(If the thought is that now the roster was actually *worse* than the Vegas projections — I can’t tell if that’s what you really mean though it sorta reads like it — we’re starting to enter Crazytown.)
I think I’ve tried the club sandwich at virtually every restaurant I’ve gone to, my brother makes fun of me cause he swears I only ever order a club sandwich.
The Mel Brooks at S&P Lunch.
Rueben sandwiches are also great but sometimes the pastrami/corn beef can be too thick.
It’s beyond ridiculous that people who bashed Randle while he was here are now talking about how Leon inherited a second team all NBA player.
lol. Randle has been in the league for years and has never sniffed being an all star. The year before Leon and Thibs showed up people wanted Randle gone. We all liked the Obi pick bc we assumed Randle would be gone.
Thibs helped turn Randle into an all NBA player and Leon hired Thibs. They didn’t inherit a second team all NBA player.
Y’all need to cut this bullshit out.
I can’t believe how much I just scrolled through on a Tuesday afternoon in mid-july.
I am eating lunch in Westwood across from the KB Home building on Wilshire, which, presumably, is the relocated headquarters of knickerblogger.org. Welcome to LA, Mike!
Alan, your title “I ain’t afraid of no Ghost” was epic. I still have to register there and keep following you, but i thought it’d be nice to tell you i laughed when i read that title. 😉 😀
My fave sandwich is the one I make from my wife’s thanksgiving leftovers, generally on country white bread, turkey, stuffing, maybe a bit of cranberry and candied yams, with a dollop of congealed gravy as a condiment, and a slice of cheese in there somewhere.
For me, personally, I like having my opinion misrepresented by strangers on the internet. Like that time when I was enjoying a hard fought series and Joel Embiid hit his 5th 3 pointer on his way to a 50 point playoff game and I wrote “Joel Curry!”, to which somebody responded “fuck you Donnie Sixers Fan”, and I then parlayed that into Donnie Pacers Fan and gave you guys the best six weeks of content this site has ever seen.
E, what would you say was the maximum return we could get for Randle at any point in his time on the team, and how does that compare with SGA’s market value in summer 2022? (TNFH, maybe he needs your help here.)
Holmes wouldn’t be a bad vet min pickup. I’m not sure if we need another pure 5 but he is a solid player and great insurance for Mitch.
I would prefer Boucher since he can play 4 or 5 and can stretch the floor.
Does this count as a sandwich?
https://www.beportugal.com/francesinha/
OKC’s your irrelevant tangent, not mine. Take it up with Hubert.
What we do know is that they got KAT for Randle, a bench piece, and a low/mid 1.
i can’t choose just one sandwich…my top 5:
1. chicken or veal parm
2. italian beef (ony from a select few places in chitown)
3. falafel sandwich (only from the guy who used to have that little shop under the LIRR tracks in Forest Hills)
4. pastrami/rye/mustard (from the deli that used to be on lydig ave by my grandmas apt)
5. shrimp po boy (only from some place in da’ quarter or those environs)
Is Payton really a PG? I think of him as a good defender at the 2 and not a creator, but haven’t paid close attention.
How about Fultz?
Oh, you definitely can, my friend. You can.
Dude. If you mean by “all” actually “no one,” you would be correct. We were nearly in consensus about Hali.
This is actually a pretty solid riposte.
Now in this particular instance, I think it’s a stretch to suggest that Z-Man wasn’t replying to me, and that I just inspired him to post about the differences between the 2022 Thunder and 2020 Knicks immediately after I brought it up because it was something he wanted to get off his chest.
And I would argue that if you are replying to someone, you do have an obligation to faithfully represent their position (after all, that is the basis of the expression “arguing in good faith”.)
But where your post is more meaningful is yesterday, when I accused Noble of slaying the straw man because his argument was adjacent to mine. As he said himself after, he just wanted to make a case against the idea that Leon is bad that just happened to flow independently from something I had said.
So well said, I will take your advice.
And I think the best sandwich is grilled cheese.
I’ll tell you one one thing for sure, the situation Mills/Perry and Leon inherited were both a million times better than what Phil inherited. 😉
Phil inherited Felton off a recent gun charge (no value), JR Smith at peak crazy (no value), Tyson Chandler 31, hurt, coming off a bad year and asking for a trade (diminshed value), Bargnani, broken down Amare, no 1st round pick in 2014, no 1st round pick in 2016 and peak Melo the coach killer who got hurt at mid season, needed surgery and wasn’t the same when he came back. We don’t need to debate his trade and salary mistakes. We all know. But the biggest mistake he made was not asking for 20 million to take over that pile of shit.
About as accurate as saying “the Bargnani trade went over really well around these parts”
Rokas would theoretically be a great use of the rookie-minimum slot we have, IMO. Obviously you never know how a guy will translate, but he put up numbers in the Euroleague that were both good in general and indicative of multiple skills we could use (playmaking, shooting, and dribble penetration off the bench).
My guess is he’s holding out for more money and/or a clearer role, though.
Agree. Even I liked Hali and I never express strong opinions on the draft. We all started assuming Obi was going to eventually replace Randle after the pick was actually made, but not before.
Can’t believe Kaminari stole my reuben. Are there enough reubens for everyone? I’ve been obsessed for a few years now. When I see one on a menu it’s a no-brainer.
Also with the chicken parm. When I worked in Manhattan I’d get one on a roll for lunch every day from the local bodega. Man.
And Cyber, that’s obscene. I don’t know what it is, but I want one.
I’m a no on Rokas, just never saw anything that will translate to the NBA. Would way rather use that spot on Diawara.
There was a turkey and avocado sandwich at a place in the Boston area that I sometimes dream about. Drizzle of a balsamic vinaigrette. It was amazing.
You act like this wasn’t my plan all along.
I’m wondering if any Summer league/G-League-level PGs are intriguing enough to take a flyer on, rather than the picked-over bin. Or some young promising player on a team loaded with guards that might get waived prior to the season. There’s really no rush to fill those spots, so my hope is that Leon waits for something unexpected or particularly intriguin g to shake loose.
I recently read that Rokas said he had no contact with the Knicks. It sounded more like the Knicks had no interest. How they could not be interested is beyond me unless it’s a salary issue. He should have played summer league to see where his game is now.
That’s exactly right. The cost of the last piece is irrelavant. It’s whatever it takes to get over the hump. Presti did the same exact thing. Paid $30m+ for I-hart becuase he knew its his last piece.
For assembling this OKC level team last June, Leon deserves a boat load of credit. Sam Presti found his last missing piece & took it away from his likely finals competitor at the same time. What are the odds?
Bacon Egg and Cheese on any street corner – in NY… they’re shit anywhere else.
The problem is when you empty the vault to pay a “last piece” price but still have a glaring need for one more piece.
It’s called “Francesinha”, and i think they make it in Newark where there’s a large community of portuguese.
For what???
“Bacon Egg and Cheese on any street corner – in NY… they’re shit anywhere else.”
Again, I’ll side with my wife’s, she always fries the egg just right with a slightly runny yoke, salt, pepper, ketchup, hot sauce, toasted english muffin.
I recall the Knicks releasing some sort of statement about expecting iHart to leave within minutes of announcing the Bridges trade.
I think a good pastrami on rye is the best sandwich. But that can be tricky. Whereas a NY deli-style Sloppy Joe — i.e., three pieces of rye, with cole slaw and some combo of turkey, pastrami and/or corned beef in between — is the most consistently good for me. Reuben, too, but I’m lactose intolerant, so have to be careful about sandwiches with that much cheese.
Thanks, Cyber! It’s the kind of headline I can use exactly once, and this seemed like the time.
High?
I’m with Z-man on Rokas, and i’m european. LOL. He couldn’t even be a starter for Barcelona, then he got back to his country and the stats didn’t improve much. Max knows better than me, because he watches european games, and i rarely do it. I don’t know, to me he seemed to either regress or didn’t improve what he was supposed to and i got that feeling that he was regressing. He’ll probably play as many games for the Knicks as Alan’s favorite… VILDOZA! 😀
The cream cheese and lox on an everything from Absolute will always be my default answer. It was perfect. RIP.
But yeah, I’ve never had a bad BEC in New York.
There was a sandwich shop in Florence that knocked my socks off, some kind of ciabatta with primo meats and cheeses and some kind of pepper oil dripping out of it. I think this was it…
Bacon egg and cheese and Katz Pastrami are also clear First Team All Sandwich choices….
And speaking of Florentine sandwiches, All’Antico Vinaio makes an amazing one in NYC. A little rich for regular consumption but absolutely terrific.
Alan’s like “I finally did it.”
I asked my oft-mentioned Clippers season ticket holder friend about Simmons. He replied, “You know, for regular season, not terrible.” I then asked if he was unplayable in the playoffs due to his shooting issues. “Yes, correct.”
Co-sign on BEC and NYC.
Back when I did reubens for lunch, the ‘bacon egg and cheese on any street corner in NY’ was my default hangover medicine. I was always just fine by the time I hit the office.
Amazingly I still mostly eat like that. Just fewer hangovers.
Yeah, I vastly prefer this to a Reuben. But to be fair, I had a bad one once and could never look at one again. Pastrami with Swiss and mustard on Rye is pretty peak.
Can’t argue with BEC, nor the grilled cheese, nor a club, though.
I do love a good BEC on a good bagel. Which fortunately we can get around these parts.
But again, it’s kind of a two-part question:
1. What is the best sandwich when you get the best version of that sandwich?
2. What is the sandwich that is the best in almost any iteration?
i spent the last 3 weeks in seattle…they emphasize biscuit as the carb delivery agent on the BEC…have to say…they have perfected it (and of course the coffee chaser is par excellence)…
But also ham and butter with cornichon on fresh baguette. But only in cities with the right latent yeast and micro baking climates – they’re shit everywhere else.
Kolek looks fine so far
I like Huk much better than Jericho Sims. He’s less athletic but play with SO much more control… Kolek’s hit the back of the iron twice but it bounced in once.
and fatter
yeah ive been disappointed with koleks summer league play thus far too but we seem to have all forgotten a couple of his really good performances for westchester as well as his cromulent play for us when he got on the floor in jalens absence i would put more stock in what he did in those two venues than i would in the first two summer league games clearly hes pressing for some reason 5/5/2 in 6 minutes in this third game is promising until and unless it comes crashing down
Did we assemble the worst shooting SL team in history?
Much better Kolek game so far, even hit a shot
Ok Nnaji.
two shots including one 3 diawara doing cardio so far nnaji two fouls in 3 minutes
Beauchamp needs Diogenes’ lamp to find some three and his teammates aren’t any better
At a certain point it no longer qualifies as a sandwich so much as a meat mountain, but a Mexico City style torta cubana never fails to impress
As I’ve said all along, nothing to worry about with Kolek *cough*
Luka Scuka!
Left hand cross court pass from Tyler didn’t count but it was pretty
Nice to see Kolek being Kolek, the headband was poison.
Kolek’s more Rick than Jalen and that’s probably OK. Nice first quarter though!
BOO-champ
Diawarra is huge
Diawara got beat pretty bad there. Luckily Huk was there, plus a nice drive on the other end.
Grant sucks. Beauchamp continues to suck.
Jesus, I go for a run (too damn hot, turned back) and Kolek has 14 points in 10 minutes with three steals?
Headband or no headband?
were shooting better than the nets are thats quite a statement
Like I said all along, send Diawara to Europe!
Looks like Kolek read our comments
Huk becoming reliable with that floater would confer upon him the nickname iHuk
Kolek: “I heard you KB!”
The only problem with send him to Europe is the European teams aren’t much interested in developing players for teams other than themselves.
He likely be better served playing 35 minutes in 25 G league games and being around the NBA team where they can work skill sets for their own long term benefit.
FEELIN’ IT!
We solved our backup PG situation. We can start Kolek and use Brunson off the bench 😉
Dink needs to tighten up his handle
In the 1980s, I lived near Pastrami King on Queens Blvd. The pastrami sandwich was the standard setter. If youre a pastrami fan, try the bbq pastrami at Hometown BBQ in Industry City. Honorable mention: tuna melt at S & P Lunch. Kolek will not wear a headband again.
Kolek to Diawara for the dunk!
“Dink needs to tighten up his handle”
On his suitcase?
There is a BBQ joint near my house that makes a Reuben with their leftover brisket and it’s a religious experience every time.
You can’t stop Kolek. You can’t even slow him down and make him work for it. 😉
That was the heatiest heat check ever by Kolek
A shooting clinic courtesy of your backup-PG Tyler Kolek.
Now please burn the headband Tyler 🔥
Not loving Nnaji. Some pretty terrible looking attempts at screens
Wait we are talking about basketball again? I just got ready to mention sandwiches (Reuben, unless I’m on holiday, and it’s club sandwich. I have a club sandwich, now the holiday can begin)
Kolek going to be on the highlight NBA bsky thing tonight!
KEEP DIAWARA ON THE ROSTER!
I was beginning to wonder why I was even watching summer league this year until we got the Tyler Kolek Game. Lesson learned, I will never question these habits again. The good ones make all the Marjon Beauchamp bricks worth it.
How many assists has Boochump cost Kolek?
Just coming on to mention that passes to Beauchamp are wasted assist attempts. Bah.
He’s 1-9 (happy he made 1!) and 0-6 from 3, so probably 8.
Is 64-56-100 good?
If the Nets lottery pick is a good defender, are they gonna call him the Demin Jacket?
I make a pretty mean sandwich when I am in Nova Scotia (I just got back from there). The bread is sour dough Pugliese toasted to golden brown (bread is baked by a baker friend of mine). On it I put maple cold smoked salmon (the shop that makes it served their product at Obama’s inauguration), bacon, lettuce, and tomato. Sometimes, I throw on a few hot pepper slices. Sometimes a little tiger sauce or cream cheese.
Didn’t the Nets draft a full roster in the first round this year? Shouldn’t they be winning this?
“Not loving Nnaji. Some pretty terrible looking attempts at screens”
Nnaji reminds me of that scene in Pretty Woman where Richard Gere is trying to drive that Lamborghini but is just stripping all the gears in that great motor.
Can’t believe the invisible sixth man didn’t catch that full-court pass
Nnaji was Rokas’ teammate for a couple of years, so I watched him play many times. Three years ago he was a very intriguing 18 years-old with size and lenght, but a fouls factory and a low BB-IQ dunk-only big on offense.
Then injuries stalled his expected development and now, after his loan at Girona, he looks exactly the same, only stiffer and slower.
P.S. Shut the fuck up announcers and cut the split screen, we’re here to watch the players, not to hear your nonsense 🤬
So I just saw the Knicks Projected Depth Chart, by apparently the Knicks, and I had to go back and freeze frame it.
Small forward — Hart, backed up by Dadiet and McCullar.
Power forward: Anunoby, backed up by Yabusele and Diawara.
Admittedly it’s all position-less, but they also had McBride and then Kolek backing up Brunson, and Clarkson as the lone backup to Bridges.
Just saw that Kolek is going off. Good for him.
“Ok, so tell me about players who aren’t in either team currently playing.”
“Let’s talk a little about anything else but the current game”
just give us a raw court feed at this point. just sneakers squealing would be more pleasing than this
Luka Scuka Dunka!
Luka Scuka Alley Oopa?
What is the value add of watching the interview? There’s three men just sitting there. Have them talk over the game, but show the damn game.
Beyond the scoring, Kolek is showing very good defensive footwork and the passing is much better as well. This Nets team is definitely a step down from DET and BOS.
I’m not 100% out on Dink Pate as a future NBA player.
Maybe 95%
Face time for ESPN’s “talent.” They pull this bullshit in practically every live broadcast they do.
I have literally zero interest in hearing Bobby Marks babble and bloviate. I assume there are a scattering of people who do, but ESPN has cut a lot of similar “talent” in recent years.
I don’t see at all that Traore “predetermined his move” there with the stepback, Tom Crean, and the replay you used belied the claim. Please stop trying to “sound smart,” take a breath, and let us watch the game.
GOOD LORD!
THEY INTERVIEW THE KOLEKSTER AND THERE IS NO AUDIO!>!?!?
Hell of a find by Diawara on that assist to Nnaji. Another one from the ground to the opposite corner.
Dink has 6 boards and 3 assists in 13 minutes, there may be something to work with there (obviously not on the NBA team)
i want kolie to get 30 but they probably wont let him
Props to Beauchamp for turning it around this game. Now has more points than shots.
Diawara has enough juice that I want him on the team for the garbage time entertainment alone
Well, looks like a win…at least we won’t get skunked.
Watson is no doctor…
Timme just put Diawara in the spin cycle.
Kolek just took a knee to the thigh
Timme’s an NBA player.
Timme’s a whiner.
Not the best sequence from Kolek
Timme was horrible for the Nets last year but in like 10 games, they should give him a shot. It’s not like they have anything better to do
In my younger, more desperate days I would’ve squinted and seen a Pascal Siakam starter kit in Diawara.
I’m past that, but still, Diakam!
Interesting seeing them go with Watson & Diawara as the bigs down the stretch. They’re both listed at F but Diawara definitely has the size for a C and Watson played there some in college. Timme absolutely killed them though.
I do wish Diawara would show a bit more in the way of big man skills to supplement his wing skills.
ha, truth darules. i checked in around 230 or so…for a second thought maybe someone on the team got traded…nope…just a tuesday afternoon with KB in fine and full form 🙂
okay, don’t want to get too caught up in the moment, but this just may be my favorite post ever…
can’t imagine a more elegant way of say – you know, i don’t really give a fuck what you think…
hubie hubie hubie
yeah, that one really resonated with me…
if KAT is our starting center to start the season – i’m going to be venting and ranting quite a bit…
Seeing Joe Torre in Yankees uniform being introduced at the All-Star game got me emotional thinking about my youth…
E – just wondering, when’s the last time you hugged someone…
wish i was there, i’d be banging on your door just to make sure it’s happening, at least weekly…designated E hugger, that’d be me…
Too soon to max Tyler Kolek? Or too late to do it?
less fancy maybe: sourdough, turkey, cranberry jelly, stuffing, congealed gravy, mayo…yeah that sounds about right…not really proud of it – but i can do those for maybe three days in a row post thanksgiving…
with lots of cold whole milk…get the good stuff with the cream on top…
sure, i could’ve just did the thumbs up thing for z-man’s post – but i want anyone following to have to grind this 300 post thread…
work for it baby…
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