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46 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.01.16)”
Good morning, all!
I think we’re far enough into the season for me to say that as currently constructed we are no better than a fringe contender – ie about the same as last year’s try-hard team. That’s not a bad place to be compared with our recent history, but it’s a bit disappointing given our ability to improve is very limited right now after the Bridges trade.
The current issue is OG Anunoby, who to my eyes has been a step slow on defense over the last couple months and whose 3 point shooting has been legit horrible since a hot November. In the last TWENTY games he has managed to shoot >33.3% from 3 in just FOUR of them, and ≤30% in ELEVEN of them. If he is not going to be literally the best 3 and D player in the league, this team is really not going anywhere. He has a long history of being a very good shooter, and so this hopefully is all just noise– but he has also never played this kind of a minutes load — well except for years in TOR in which he ended up missing tons of games because of injuries possibly related to those minutes. OG maybe needs a load management day or two off. Beyond that – he probably has to stop trying to create scoring opportunities – has been blocked so many times or thrown up garbage when surrounded in the paint. I wonder if this is the “ego” issue that Hart was talking about?
Precious was good last night – in the current state of things (ie. no Mitch) he has to be the primary backup to both Towns and OG, which means he plays 25ish minutes per night. We’ve all said this before but the bench guys need to play more to get into a groove individually and also to gain chemistry in their various groupings. I get that Thibs wants the starters to mesh, but that’s been at the expense of any real productivity from the bench groups.
The first apron business really sucks – hard to see any Derrick Rose-ish trade out there. I don’t see Leon trading Precious if Mitch is going to be very injury-unreliable, and so that means probably trading Mitch for pennies on the dollar if he’s targeting any significant player.
Here’s an interesting take on Julius Randle from a Wolves blog. Not that we haven’t had our share of problems in clutch situations….but not missing this stuff.
(I stumbled on this while looking for something referring to Julius getting benched as reported on the last thread but saw nothing referring to that…)
RIP Gus Williams, pride of Mt. Vernon. Heck of a player, really lit it up for those great Sonics teams.
i watched the 4th qtr of the twolves game last night…randle was doing ok…fitch just went with a different lineup that got them back in the game and he never put randle back in…his body language was awful..but that’s nothing new..
agree with frank above…that is how I am feeling about this squad…like a box of chocolates…
Yeah I saw that Donte had a great game last night but Randle still looks out of place on that team. I think he’s a good guy and hope he finds the right situation, maybe on one of the Texas teams (I bet he could thrive in San Antonio, but they don’t really need to go that route.)
As for our team, hopefully Mitch will cure a lot of what ails by adding 20 bench minutes and actual rim protection.
Defensively, I still don’t see evidence that Thibs or KAT can work on a high level with a 5-out lineup unless we somehow found a 2nd big who can protect the rim and shoot threes at a high clip… then maybe. But having a traditional center option again should at least help against certain matchups.
Yeah, you gotta hope Mitch can really help things. Not just because he can alleviate KAT some and also possibly allow Thibs to go with a 2 big line up sometimes, but if Mitch can help the defense for the bench unit, maybe then Thibs is willing to give Cam and Shamet more minutes to do their thing?
As it is right now, Thibs might feel like he has to play Hart, OG and Mikal a ton of minutes since they are 3 goodish defenders.
I still think TJ Warren deserves a look. He’s a vet who has proven he can score. He just had some injuries derail his career but he’s still not THAT old. And he’s been doing pretty good in the D-League.
Healthy Mitch and TJ being anywhere close to bubble TJ would be a big boon for us.
I also think a trade is probably not a good idea. Get Mitch back and he makes it through the season and post season and suddenly his trade value goes back up in the off season.
Leon has to be VERY careful with whatever moves he makes next that involve picks because we have nothing left.
Also, our scouting department NEEDS to go into OT drive right now to find those diamonds in the rough with the 2nd rounders we have.
I was surprised to learn that Edison is a full 42 minutes from the Meadowlands. I would have said 15.
And only 75 minutes from Philly.
KAT you are forgiven
Yes, it’s 34 miles.
What’s so frustrating is this is the first time since Spree was on the team that we were good and had legitimate stars who complemented each other, either naturally or through sacrifice, and yet the play is still up and down in January. You see the highs, and they are so bright. But then the lows are super surprising because they’ll do shit like go on a 9 game win streak, then stop playing that way and look very much like the chemistry is off. I still have faith in this team, and there are no off nights in the NBA. But we should have handled Detroit and Philly a whole lot better.
I do wonder though, if Thibs should embrace a 9 or 10 man rotation when Mitch is back just to have enough shooting on the floor to make up for the lack of offensive firepower on the bench. I’m not sure there’s a way to improve the bench without losing a Deuce. You know what I’d love? If we could use Sims and Achiuwa to bring Obi back. Or a backup 4 of the same caliber to pair with Mitch on the 2nd unit. But at the same time, I’m not really a fan of moving Achiuwa either. But if moving either Achiuwa or Deuce to improve the bench are our best options- then I’d rather keep Deuce
I find the geography of US fanbases something of an interesting topic … as you drive north from NYC to, say, Amherst, MA, you start in Yankee (Giant/Knick) country and eventually you get to border-ish places and then eventually into Red Sox (Patriot/Celtic) territory.
The same thing naturally happens when you drive south to Philly.
One thing I’d look for is this — what cable system serves Edison? The Eagles and Giants are both Fox teams; does “[Edison Cable] have a Fox affiliate (a) actually in Philly; or (b) that is enough into Eagles territory that it shows the Eagles as its main NFC team? (*)
In terms of sources, 506 Sports (?) does an NFL viewing map for every NFL Sunday that helps show the fan loyalties within the US. (Facebook, I think it was, maybe 8-9 years ago did a very cool map of every county in the US showing its baseball loyalties.
(*) It’s obviously possible KAT became an Eagles fan the same way some dork in like Idaho becomes a Cowboys fan, but far more likely is that the Eagles were the/a TV team in Edison, or has enough Eagles fans that KAT caught the bug.
I’m not sure why struggling to beat the Sixers in Philly is such a downer for you all, they were missing Embiid, we were missing KAT, Maxey is legit all-NBA, PG13 while inconsistent can still ball.
Sure it would have been nice to blow them out, but we got a road win. Now it’s time to beat some good teams, which it seems like we haven’t done in a while.
I’m more than a bit worried KAT’s sprained thumb on his shooting hand is going to bother him forever, as has every thumb injury I’ve ever had. It was mentioned that he has a bone chip floating around in there, also a bad sign.
I mean, Bernard King scorched the league with two injured fingers, but still.
d-mar, I’ll take a first shot at answering your question (posed rhetorically or not). I think Frank touched on the concern in his post: “…about the same as last year’s try-hard team.”
I think he’s right, but the difference is a) their ceiling is WAY higher, as we’ve seen during those (sadly short) stretches where things are clicking. The problem is b) the improved skill set is being limited by what I’ll call not-try-as-hard play. Not sure if it’s really effort, but it does feel like the team coasts at times (last year it felt like everyone played like Josh), and that’s when things turn foul.
It’s not his shooting hand.
Last night was the first time this season Precious reminded me why I liked him last year.
I think the way we blew the lead at the end of regulation was particularly disappointing. Some dumb stuff from smart players. And we had a 16 point lead and a solid double digit lead for much of the game. So letting it get away felt worse.
A win is a win though, I agree it’s not something to get worked up about.
Also..there was a possession in the 4th last night that made me sick to my stomach, and made me feel like Hart’s ego comment was definitely about Anunoby. Remember when Hart got the ball and pushed it to the top of the break and swung it to Anunoby on the 3pt line? As he did it he pointed to a wide open Bridges in the corner. Anunoby proceeded to look at Bridges, pump fake, drive, and miss a shot. Like cmon dude! You got your bag. If you play winning basketball, your stats will come because the guys are looking for you when they have the ball. That play looked to me like he just did not want Bridges shooting it, even though Bridges had been shooting it well all game long. That sucks because we need the team oriented, awesome defense with over a steal and a block a game Anunoby from earlier in the season. That OG was consistently having good shooting nights. Just because you get 40mil, it does not mean that you have to shoot more. Especially when you’re taking bad shots. It means the team appreciates what you bring to the lineup. Your fellow starters will get you the balln as they all like to pass.
You got to be better bruh. I’m hoping this is just a phase or your run of the mill ebb and flow of a season. Nevertheless, that play was unacceptable in my eyes.
Poindexter, I remember that play. Always impossible to know what’s really going on in the heat of the moment, but it was something I noticed as well.
“It’s not his shooting hand.”
Wanna bet?
People just look at the record and assume we should blow out any team from jump ball to the end that doesn’t have a winning record.
Missing KAT is a big deal for us. It was a road game. Philly is desperate right now and also there is a rivalry with us because of the playoffs last year. Maxey is a great player. Paul George can also still ball sometimes.
Good teams do not win every game they’re supposed to and not every win is going to be a breeze.
The hand wringing about this year’s team is weird. I mean, I get it to some degree because I have the same concerns every one else does but we’re a top 5 team in the league. There are always ups and downs throughout the season.
We got a W on the road against a division rival. Its ok!
I actually thought OG was passing up too many shots last night. That sequence in the 2nd quarter where there were around 100 passes that lead to a corner 3pter OG got the assist.
Z-man, is this Knicks PTSD making you say that? He was clearly holding his right hand and it thumb after it got injured and the announcers talked about it not being his shooting hand.
I don’t live very far from Edison. It is a New York suburb, that gets New York TV affiliates. KAT is entitled to root for whoever he wants to, but Edison is not inherently Eagles country.
OG’s reminiscent of a less-skilled, much poorer rebounding (*) version of Knick-era Truck Robinson.
Luckily, OG’s a couple generations younger and so his basketball acculturation led him to develop a decent three-point shot, quite possibly the only thing keeping him out of the major league basketball unemployment line.
(*) This understates it. Truck was an elite, world-class rebounder. OG is … well, OG is not that.
frank,
Good post near the top of the thread. I agree with your analysis of OG. Some of what’s going on we know from the MSG crew was Thibs encouraging him to take more 3s. That lowered the average quality of his shots a bit, but he’s also not shooting especially well even when he gets his bread and butter open corner 3s. And his attempts to create at the rim in non dunk situations are an adventure. I’d recommned a day off, but I’d also take the advice from this guy:
https://www.instagram.com/wrestlingram_/reel/C-dEn5_it9f/
There’s still time for him to improve his handle and finish.
I should add, everyone knows how much I love OG. He and Hart are favorite players.
A big reason for this encouragement was almost certainly Thibs man managing through public affirmation, OG’s desire for a bigger role in the offense — which he most certainly doesn’t want and has never, ever given any indication he has ever wanted and no one can ever prove otherwise.
It’s not that Towns and Mikal are not giving a lot of effort. Towns especially tries really hard on the boards. But DDV and I-Hart were a lot like J-Hart in that those extra effort plays were a big part of their value and it gave that team a different identity than this one. This team is more skilled but has been less consistent in effort.
I loved last year’s team as much as anyone but c’mon the current team is definitely better and more importantly to me has a much higher ceiling.
The “skill” before and after obviously depends on the “before,” but the Knicks are certainly more skilled at the 1 and 2 of their ranking. Since the skill level of your 1 and 2 guys is outsized critical to association success, it wouldn’t necessarily be wrong to conclude that on that basis alone, the Knicks are now more skilled. That would probably be where I land, but with more reservations than I thought I’d have come January.
That said, while I thought and hoped that would be the case more broadly, i.e., a clearly more skilled roster, at this point I’m not really seeing it. He has his moments and his streaks, but I don’t consider OG a particularly skilled player (*).
The bench is not as skilled as the benches from 2022 through last season.
So we’ll see. Get healthy for the playoffs and take your best swing. A healthy Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony-Towns should make you a tough out. Until then we’re kind of all just killing time and shooting the proverbial shit.
(*) Even the classification of someone as “3 & D” starts to at least concede that they aren’t widely skilled.
Anunoby Corner 3PT% by year:
2017-2018: 43.9 (47/107)
2018-2019: 28 (28/100)
2019-2020: 40.2 (49/122)
2020-2021: 41.3 (52/126)
2021-2022: 46 (46/100)
2022-2023: 45 (72/160)
2023-2024: 44.1 (60/136)
2024-2025: 34.1 (42/123)
I mean, you kinda gotta think he’ll get it together right? If everything else was the same and he was hitting 40% of his corner 3s (which, amazingly, would still be his 2nd worst career mark), he’d have a .592 TS% with 16.2 PST/36. I think we’d all be pretty happy, except for those among us with an irrational attachment to Clank Barrett.
That said, far be it from me to rule out that there are fatigue, nagging injury, etc. elements here that render it more signifiant than pure SSS noise.
As long as we get KAT back soon, I see no reason we can’t give OG some PTO, filling the void with Shaw-Met, Payne, and Deuce without increasing anyone else’s minutes.
Then again…I shudder to think about how Thibs would actually fill the minutes void.
KAT shoots right-handed. He uses his left well, but he is clearly right-hand dominant.
Knicks do have a decent amount of days off between now and the All-Star break.
If those numbers aren’t games adjusted, it looks like OG’s on pace to shoot about 240 corner 3s, which would obliterate his personal record for corner 3s attempted. This alone could explain the drop.
As you proceed down your own personal chart of shot quality, your percentage of makes will drop. Axiomatic to basketball and why we have to look at usage, not just “efficiency.”
Holy shit!
Bob Uecker was only 90? Not gonna lie..I thought he was already 90 5 or so years ago lol
Rest well, legend!
“Juuuuuust a bit outside”
Salute
Don’t you have something better to do than hate on OG and be wrong?
In 6 games, OG will have his 3rd highest total minutes played.
He’s taking 7.9 3PAs per 100 possessions with a career average of 7.5/100. He’s taking 46.7% from the corner up from a career average of 43.8%, but 46.7% is the median for his career.
The OG Defense League is getting cuter and cuddlier as the days continue to unfold.
TNFH
OG is clearly not shooting as well from the corner as in the past, but if I had to guess, I’d say in addition to taking some suspect 3s from other areas of the court, the quality of his corner 3s has declined also. Not last night, but to me (eye test) more of his 3s seem rushed or require a litte side step etc.. My guess (I’m too lazy to try to figure it all out) is that he’s not shootoing as well (noise and/or fatigue), but the quality on even the good shots is lower. It’s even possible that since he’s been asked to shoot other 3s and is working on it, he’s lost some of his “feel” from the corner. It may even pay to check the distribution from left and right corner. He’s better from one than the other.
I feel the same way about this as with Mikal’s bad start. I’m not worried about it at all. We know what he’s capable of.
This is literally exactly what happens as you progress down your personal shot quality chart and shoot rather than not shoot shots below your established baseline … as he’s obviously doing as seen by both the eye test and the data.
It’s possible you have to have actually played basketball to fully understand this fully, and to maybe even understand the concept of what I’m calling the personal shot quality chart.(*) I’m not sure.
(*) Many shots are not taken by basketball players because of their internal voices and instincts telling them “this is not a good enough shot for me to take at this time and in this context.” That threshold varies depending primarily on skill level.
The reason given was that he’s such an excellent corner 3 point shooter he should probably be more aggressive.
IMO that translated into a few better defended and rushed shots, some of which I think were suspect decisions.
I don’t want to rehash what he wants. We know what he wants. Even his former coach said it. When he has a break game on offense and gets a post game interview on more than on occasion he said that even though he values his role and reputation on defense more, he wants to be known as a scorer too.
Woof. This ain’t it.
% of OG’s 3PA that are Open/Wide Open:
2024-2025: 42.2
2023-2024: 44.3
2022-2023: 38.9
2021-2022: 40.8
2020-2021: 46.8
2019-2020: 38.9
2018-2019: 48
2017-2018: 59.4
Nope — you don’t get it.
Are all “Open” or “Wide Open” shots available to NBA players actually taken by NBA players? Start there and try to reason from the answer to that predicate question I’m pretty sure you’ll reach.
I agree with you, but here’s the difference between us.
I don’t care that OG is not a more diverse scorer!
IMO, if he had that capability, I’d gladly take it, but it would not make us a much better team. He’d simply wind up being underutilized.
There are only X shots in a game. The idea is to distribute them intelligently given the skills of the players and the strategy of the defense.
We have our highly efficient #1a and 1b options. After the slow start, Mikal has settled nicely into his role as #3 option and OG is close behind as 4th option.
There will be nights when due to matchups, injuries, random shooting etc.. somone besides Towns or Brunson will either step up or have to step up. On some nights it will OG. But all we need from OG is around 15 efficient points per game, good spacing and elite level defense. That’s what he’s getting paid for. He’s not getting paid to take shots away from Towns and Brunson. Even if he could do it better, then he’d become 3rd option and score a little more than Mikal and Mikal would be underutilized a bit.
You don’t need 5 scorers.
You need ENOUGH scoring!
We have enough scoring.
Then the idea is to add guys that are efficient in a more limited way but elite at other things to put next to the diverse efficient scorers.
That’s where Hart comes in as an elite rebounder at the 2/3 and finisher and OG comes in as an elite defender and excellent corner 3 point shooter and cutter.
Our issues are on defense and on the bench, not on offense.
I’m surprised it’s that close to his overall career distribution because I see shots he takes from the corner now that make me cringe they are so rushed and awkward. Maybe he’s getting as many open looks but the remainder is lower quality???
What about left vs right corner?
I remember some conversation about how convenient it was that OG and Bridges were both great from the corner, but both were better from opposite corners which make them an even better fit.
Shamet
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