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49 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.09.20)”
Yesterday MSG network posted highlights of 2000 Game 6 vs Miami. I sent the video to my brother and he asked me if the current Knicks team is better than that team.
Crazy to think that the current team could be the best since the 70’s championship teams. The 1993, 1994 and 1997 teams are the best teams since with the 2000 and 2013 teams in the discussion but we currently could be rooting for the best Knicks team in at least my lifetime and I was born in 1980.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5781843/2024/09/20/joel-embiid-sixers-extension-contract/
BBA, I would argue that the 2013 team was better than the 1997 team when Ewing and Oakley were already ancient. Things didn’t break right for that Melo team, and the window was tiny, but they had all the right parts even if only briefly.
As for this team, it’s hard to place them yet. I think they’re at least in the tier just below the 94 and championship teams but could get higher… we’ll see.
The 2013 team was build on a foundation of sand, in that it relied on Jason Kidd not falling off a cliff at age 39. Once the wheels fell off Jason Kidd, that team was not all that great.
I think last year’s team can make a compelling case for #3. (I’m going to leave ‘93 & ‘94 in a class of their own for now).
50 wins belies how great the team we just had was. We played the first two months of the season with basically a different team and then we had crushing injury blows. Even still we had 53 PWs and the best SRS of any Knicks team since ‘94.
Other Knicks teams had exceedingly good luck. The ‘97 team, for instance, were 7 games better than their pythagorean win total. I would take this team over them easily.
We were really good last year. I honestly think in an alternate timeline where Julius Randle doesn’t crash into Jacquez the Knicks beat the Celtics and win the title.
I actually don’t think this team is good as last year’s. But it is really good and if it can make the right move midseason again it could be better than even 93/94.
“I actually don’t think this team is good as last year’s.”
If what you are saying is that being +MB and -IHart, I get that argument. But I would counter that the experience of last year is a big big plus going into this year. Especially the playoffs, with no one (other than perhaps iHart) who was healthy not playing equal to or better than the regular season.
This year’s team could be the best if Mitch stays healthy. If he doesn’t stay healthy, then I doubt it reaches the level of the early 90s teams.
I’m also not convinced Mikal is the caliber of player the media portrays. If he’s good but not great, it’s probably a step back from last year’s team.
Finally, last season’s Donte provided some badly needed spacing, something we’ll likely need again. He was one of the best shooters in the league and was on another level when compared to Mikal, sinking 50% more 3s per 36 than him last season. I’m skeptical Donte repeats his previous season, but even if he does this year’s team is going to miss it regardless with Mikal soaking up most of his minutes.
I’m saying that if we had started last season with the Jan 1 roster, that would have been a 58-60 win team. I think our current team is better than the team we took to the playoffs, but not as good as the team that started Jan 1.
When Donte, OG, and Hartenstein replaced Barrett, Grimes, and Mitch, those guys formed like Voltron with Brunson and Randle. By bringing in Bridges we have the potential for a stronger Voltron, but without Hartenstein it’s not fully formed.
When/if we replace him (or if Mitch somehow has the best season of his life) this will be the best Knicks team of our lives (unless you were alive in ’73).
Just like Amare’s knees.
The final week of the regular season thru Game 5 until the suspensions the 1997 team played the best basketball I’d ever seen a Knicks team play. They won a bunch of close games during the regular season but that included a bunch of wins against teams with great records. 3 teams that season won over 60 games and the Knicks went 6-4 against them.
They also swept a very good 54 win Hornets team in the 1st rd in what was probably the most impressive playoff series I’ve ever seen a Knicks team play.
But yeah until the current group wins 60 games or reaches the Finals the 1993-1994 teams are the best in my lifetime.
1993 was the best Knick team in my lifetime, in that it not only won the most games, but it also had the most clear and legitimate path to beating the Jordan Bulls of any other team during their reign. Charles Smith was pretty good that year, the team was very deep, and things clicked from the start of the season to the final possession of the 2nd to last game. The ‘94 and ‘95 teams weren’t as good, mostly due to Smith’s regression, and were real let downs, given the path to the championship was wide open. The 1997 team wasn’t even a top-5 team in the league that year, yet is somehow a top-5 all-time Knicks team, yeesh. And the best player on the 2000 team statistically was Charlie Ward, so…
Bring on 2025!
(Oh, and let’s go Sixers)
How good was last season’s team is an interesting question, because it was like 3 or 4 different teams
Yeah 1993 was the only year the Bulls weren’t the 1st seed in the East during their championship years and it was cause the Knicks won 60 games and went 3-1 vs the Bulls who finished with 57 wins.
That’s spot on DRed. The team with Randle and OG going full speed? With IHart? That was likely the best Knicks team of my lifetime.
I’m saying that if we had started last season with the Jan 1 roster, that would have been a 58-60 win team.
OK got it. But assuming that team did not win the chip (do agree a Randleless but otherwise healthy team could have taken out the KPless C’s), this year’s team would have unfinished business, and should get further. But my underlying rationale is that you have to get thru Boston and if everyone on both teams were/are healthy last year and this coming year, we have a better chance of beating them this coming year than we would have last year.
If Mitch is healthy this year’s team will be the best in my lifetime.
I believe this team with Bridges instead of iHart is still better than last year regardless although I understand the reservations some have. But all those worries get negated if Mitch can at least play 50-60 games and be healthy come playoff time. Even if he misses half the season again I still think this team wins more than 50 games but to be a true championship contender yeah we need a relatively healthy Mitch especially in the playoffs. Heck just give us 2023 playoffs Mitch and I think this team can beat Boston.
I remember the stretch of ball in ’97 Al is referring to and it certainly was exciting. But ’97 was a weird year for win totals because the league did a double expansion before ’96 and all the good teams got a pretty big bump. I think you have to really look beyond wins to determine where that team ranks.
And frankly I ding that team for being stupid.
Here’s my top 10, omitting the ’99 team because I don’t know how to judge it so I let it exist on its own plane:
1 & 1A: 1993 & 1994 – Both these teams could have (perhaps should have) won the title
3 & 3A: 1984 & 2023 – Two teams with relatively low win totals that belied their status as top contenders.
5. 1992 – maybe my favorite team
6. 1989 – if Rick Pitino hadn’t kicked King to the curb…
7 & 7A: 1997 & 2013 – the great but stupid teams
9. 2023
10. 1995
Kinda harsh on the 2000 team Hubert! They only won 50 games and finished as the 3rd seed cause Ewing missed the first 20 games of the season. He played the final 62 games and I believe they played at a 54 win pace with Ewing and would’ve finished 2nd ahead of the Heat if it wasn’t for Hardaway’s fluke 3pt game winner against them late in the season.
They also swept the TMac Vince Carter Raptors in the 1st rd when many predicted the Raptors would upset them. They beat Miami in 7 games and took Indiana to 6 games in the Conference Finals with Ewing and Camby getting hurt during the series and Spree playing with a broken bone in his foot. Even Houston was hobbled early in the series after spraining his ankle in Game 6 vs Miami. That team was just running on fumes at the end but they still got to Game 6 of the Conference Finals and legitimized the 1999 run as not being a fluke.
The best thing to happen to the ‘97 team was the suspensions because it kept them from being swept by the Bulls. The knicks really weren’t very good that year. Houston, LJ, and Childs were all pretty bad all year. It was the Ewing, Starks, and Oakley show all over again, to declining results. At least the 2000 team had Marcus Camby making a leap, which was kind of thrilling. Last year’s team seems much better to me than both those teams, but hard to compare eras.
I did not particularly like that 2013 team. Entered the season with no Jeremy Lin*, Mike Woodson because he did just enough after Mike D quit midway thru the last year*, a hurricane that delayed the season that probably led to the torrid start, acquired tastes in JR and Jason,and a bunch of ageing mercs. It was not until they beat the Celtics that I grew to like them, but alas.
*feeling at the time, rebutted in hindsight
I had the 2000 team at 10 then I looked up the ’95 team’s stats and edited it with 5 seconds left.
I really did not like that 2000 team.
They were better than Miami but always let them hang around long enough.
They sleep-walked through two games in Indiana while Mark Jackson did the sign-of-the-cross after every 3. Charlie Ward saved their bacon twice over Memorial Day weekend, and then they just folded.
That fold, IMO was the beginning of the great decline. Don’t forget this was a Scott Layden team. 2000 was the first step down.
Actually I recant this. The Knicks and Heat had a mutual destruction vendetta going on that year. No one was getting out of it alive.
Massive news: Rebecca Haarlow is leaving the Knicks broadcast.
To add to the Rebecca news:
I just don’t want anything to reduce the (already seemingly not high) chances of Hahn, not Wally, being Clyde’s eventual successor.
Was that the God Squad team, with the prayer-circles at half-court, and the Jews killed Jesus stuff? If so, then yeah, that team was pretty insufferable.
I was watching some of that re-broadcast of the 2000 Knicks-Heat game 6 on MSG yesterday, and couldn’t believe it was Clyde and Breen announcing
25 years together, time does indeed fly
is there now any nba player who will be making more per game played than Joel Embiid…
he’ll be most likely making over a million dollars each game he plays…
Katz? Woj? Rebecca? Everyone’s leaving just as we win it all? Wha?
Donnie did you even watch the 1997 team or you just looking at their basketball reference page?
No, that was the Houston/Ward squad. I forget who the third prominent member was.
Wasn’t that actually us with Charlie Ward?
I was in college in Boston that year, so I watched all their nationally televised games. And I went to their games against the Celtics. But, admittedly, I didn’t watch most of their games that year. I did listen to the radio broadcasts, though, as WFAN carried all the way up to my apartment in Fenway some nights, but for most games I’d drive down to Rhode Island and listen in my car by the side of the road. (My college graduation was the same day as Game 7, and I remember rushing home to watch it and it was all but over by halftime, making it the second most anti-climactic event of the day).
The bk-ref page tries but doesn’t sufficiently capture just how anemic Allan Houston was that season, nor does it properly capture the sadness I felt during 90% of Larry Johnson’s possessions, while he’d spend 10 full seconds sashaying and pirouetting his his way from 20 feet out to 18 feet out on his way to a highly contested fade-away.
Like everyone, during the Miami series I cried murder and believed we was robbed. But, hindsight being objective, that team simply wasn’t worth driving to Rhode Island and getting frostbite for. I’m glad I didn’t shave my head.
My parents never had cable tv so I listened to the entire 1991-92 season on the radio. Breen & Clyde did that whole season for WFAN.
It’s starting to look like the decision for Randle to try to come back for the playoffs last year was a bad one. I thought it was “suspect” at the time because I didn’t think we were good to win the title even with him. So the better idea was probably to just get the surgery over with right away and get ready for this season. But now that he’s saying he might miss the beginning of the season it looks worse. That means it will also take him awhile longer than that to get to form.
We still don’t know Mitch’s status either.
I’m not worried about Randle missing the early part of the season, we should be good enough for it not to matter, but I do worry that he’ll try to rush back before his shoulder is 100%.
I don’t think it’s uncommon for players to return early, but if he could’ve grabbed an extra week or two of rest before the season started, I’d prefer that.
There’s probably an element of “you haven’t paid me so I’m not hurrying back” in that statement. But I’m fine with it. Typically Randle is obsessed with his availability and comes back early and unready from injury. No one needs that. Heal up, big fella.
While Houston and Ward gave all glory to God LJ was praising Allah in his interviews.
What’s the deal with Julius’ extension eligibility btw? Are we able to extend him during the season or is there a deadline after which it’s straight to free agency?
Wasn’t that actually us with Charlie Ward?
yep. the connection to both teams is a pastor named john love who had almost everyone sans ewing, herb williams and presumably LJ around the campfire at one point or another. during one of the later seasons jvg had to quickly apologize for complaining about him distracting the team. charlie ward even gave a classic ‘some of my favorite people eat bagels’ non-retraction after he and allan houston did an unfortunate interview:
The writer took it out of context,” Ward said Friday. “I didn’t mean to offend any one group because that’s not what I’m about. I have friends that are Jewish; actually my best friend is a Jewish guy, and his name is Jesus Christ.”
I just had a crazy flashback to the first time I cringed reading that line.
Religious beliefs aside during those years I always thought Childs was the better PG than Ward but when you look back at the advanced stats Ward was actually a pretty damn good player that was underappreciated.
So I had an interesting afternoon… https://www.instagram.com/p/DAJ5hcLpI9x/
Looks like a nice moment Alan, Congrats
Here’s a link to a nice article about Monica McNutt
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/09/19/monica-mcnutt-espn-stephen-smith/
Very cool, Alan
When Ward replaced Childs in the starting lineup, the headline on the backpage of the New York Post read “AND A CHILDS SHALL NOT LEAD THEM”. That made me laugh, so I appreciated the move. Outside of that, though, I had no real opinion because they both were thoroughly disposable.
hello my fellow KB procrastinators – and welcome to UltraVPN…
got scared when this new software program suddenly appeared on the computer…
thought my predilection for porn might have caught up to me…
turns out just the end for Kaspersky anti-virus…meant to uninstall and get something new, but – why put off today what you can postpone until the day after…
wondering what z-man is up to…kinda wanna see some pics of spain…
so cool to see him leave the site alone for a while and out there living life…
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