Knicks Morning News (2024.08.27)

Rarely has this place been so quiet….

I’ll just say that there is no chance this team doesn’t win at least 50 games regardless of Mitch’s playing time. They’ll probably start slow and not be much above .500 come December, but sometime around then they’ll start putting it together. It’s what they do. By the All-Star break we’ll be in good shape and making up ground on everyone in front of us.

And if Mitch misses much of the season but is in good health for the playoffs, look out.

A comment on yesterday’s thread: you guys are forgetting how good DDV was last year. He made the leap and at his contract he’s a tremendous value. I’m not trading him for an Ayton or a Walker-Kessler.

Yeah, you only trade DDV if you are getting a clear All-Star level player at either PF or C. Even leaving aside the Nova thing, he’s too good, on too good a contract, to send out for a modest positional upgrade.

darules, you touch on a question that’s out there, which is whether DDV and Deuce broke through the wall or had uncharacteristic years. DDV has a pretty strong track record (42.8% from three overall, as compared to his 44.3% last year, admittedly at much higher volume). Deuce is a bigger question, I always had an irrational belief in his three-point shooting from his summer league and G-league bouts, but he really struggled in very short stints on the floor his first two years (35% depending on who you believe, oddly different sites have different stats for him) as compared to 45% last year (ditto).

With different roles this year (coming off the bench for DDV, and getting shorter stints again for Deuce), it’ll be interesting to see if they can keep the heaters going.

Raven, funny you should mention this. Yesterday when I was coming up with my list of what is most crucial, right after health, I put sustainability of players who made a leap–JB, DDV, and Deuce. Less concerned about JB as I am not really sure he actually made a leap–just did what he always does by fulfilling what the team needs. Also decided that keeping the improved Deuce is more important than the improved DDV (partly because of roster construction but also because the non-improved DDV is still a useful player).

BTW, 3rd on my list was Randle and 4th was Thib’s flexibility.

“I’ll just say that there is no chance this team doesn’t win at least 50 games regardless of Mitch’s playing time.”

I think there is no chance that this team does win at least 50 games if Mitch is out for the season on game 1 and isn’t replaced by a legit starting-caliber C in a way that doesn’t detract from a different position. Which, while unlikely, absolutely could happen.

As I pointed out yesterday:
1) every playoff team last year had either a legit starting C or a highly effective backup. It is a vital position, especially for a Thibs-style team.
2) Precious and Sims are barely rotation-level players and would likely not be in the rotation of any 50-win team, let alone a starter.

Baked into this is the assumption that key players like Brunson, OG, and Randle are going to miss a bunch of games due to minor injuries…ankle tweaks, muscle pulls, etc.

And I don’t even like Mitch all that much! I thought that iHart was significantly better than Mitch from very early in his Knicks tenure, and met considerable resistance back then. I still have doubts as to whether Mitch can be on the floor in crunch time of critical playoff games.

But let’s face it, Precious and Sims are scrubs. If that’s your C rotation, they are going to lose you a bunch of games.

You know what?
I still think that IF the team is really worried about Mitch’s recovery and sustainable health, as well as Randle’s fit with Bridges inclusion and a likely increasing of Anunoby’s role- a move for Ayton & Time Lord for Randle & Mitch is probably the most logical one out there. Here’s why:
1. Ayton & Williams will come very close to the production we got from Mitch & Hartenstein, if not surpass it. Ayton is good in the paint and will require less touches, allowing for Bridges and Anunoby to do the things they need to do on offense. Williams will replicate most of what Mitch does at minimum, and won’t be needed to play big minutes like Mitch will this season. One of those 2 goes down, we will still have Sims, and Achiuwa behind them.
2. Randle will have the role he can thrive in with the Blazers and still satisfy his desire to get his touches as a top option. He won’t have that as a Knick this season. And also, the Blazers have Clingan as the 5 of the near future- so they’d probably won’t care as much if Mitch misses a little time.

I’m not advocating for the team to move Randle or Mitch, but it feels like a logical play to me. If something like that were to happen, it would have to happen before camp to get those guys integrated with their roles early. And the Blazers might be willing to have Randle and Grant lead the offense with Simons while the young guys come along. I can see Billups advocating for that so that he’ll have something to lean on during the growing pains

Re DDV, I love the guy. But championship teams trade these kinds of guys for key players at positions of need. The larger point is that DDV, Hart, and Deuce should all be expendable in the right deal. This is true for Mitch and Randle as well. The only guys who are currently untouchable (and this could change…e.g. if you need to give up someone to get Giannis, you do it without hesitation) are Brunson, Mikal and OG. In my opinion, that’s your Big 3 for the next 5 years barring the unforeseen.

Leon (and many fans) might object and want to roll with this extremely rootable bunch come hell or high water, but it’s that willingness to part with beloved players that can make the difference between falling just short and getting over the top. I’m good either way, but totally objectively, if your goal is championship or bust, that’s the way you have to think.

Poindexter, it’s not a crazy proposition on paper, but I feel like I have to defer to the folks who feel that we shouldn’t touch Ayton with a 10-foot pole. It’s one of those things where you just have to kind of trust in Leon & Co. to do their due diligence and my guess is that they probably pass. I sort of get Charles Smith caveat emptor vibes with Ayton.

Yeah Poindexter, if the reports/rumors that Leon didn’t want Brogdon because of cultural fit concerns were true, can’t see him touching Ayton.

I suppose I’ll start worrying that we have an irrational attachment to the Nova core when an opportunity to make a good trade involving one of them arises and we pass. Until then, I don’t see the point in preemptively worrying about this oddly specific situation and am not convinced the idea is a non-starter. We’ve traded Archie multiple times!

The reason we’ll win 50 regardless of Mitch is because replacement-level center play is a lot better than it is at other positions. Previous and Sims (and maybe Huk) aren’t good, but they’ll Tall Guy their way to reasonably efficient low-usage scoring and get most of the rebounds they should. It would be a horrible solution for the playoffs and the tougher regular season matchups, but we can still go through the dregs and middling teams like a hot knife through butter with it.

Previous and Sims (and maybe Huk) aren’t good

Uh oh, TNFH, you just summoned the Kraken (-:

Nuh uh. Leaving it alone. I’ve left other things alone, too.

(I actually thought that you meant because I’ve posted my Precious stan content two or three times now. 🙂 )

I still think that there is a plan for the center position, whether it be Huk, or Thibs seeing growth in Precious and/or Sims, or playing Julius at that spot…….but we just don’t know what that plan is yet. I’d feel more comfortable knowing, but I’m putting my trust in Thibs and Leon here.

Doogie, I have noticed that, much appreciated, keep it up!

I think the core Nova thing is overblown. Obviously JB is not being traded for anyone–even Jokic–not just because he is the star but he took a discount to stay here. OG and Mikal aren’t going anywhere because we just shed assets to acquire them and are crucial to implementing the style we have chosen to true contention. Other than that, I think everyone is “on the block” should the right opportunity arise.

Because that’s actually a real word and could thus be confusing I would consider a correction at least somewhat more merited than usual.

Apologies, but not profound ones, because when I’m typing on my phone while in court waiting for an opposing attorney you get what you get and you don’t get upset.

“I suppose I’ll start worrying that we have an irrational attachment to the Nova core when an opportunity to make a good trade involving one of them arises and we pass.”

Not sure we can count on being informed of the details of every possible trade opportunity that might involve these players. I also think it’s pretty rational to assume that Brunson would be very upset if Leon traded away either Hart or DDV before giving them a chance to show how far the Nova core could go, no matter who they got back.

What you are essentially saying is that if neither Hart nor DDV is included in a trade for a C, then no trade opportunities that would improve the team overall were out there. That may be true, but you wouldn’t really know that unless they were shopped. Do you realistically think that there is even a remote chance that Leon would actively shop those guys right now? I sure don’t.

“Other than that, I think everyone is “on the block” should the right opportunity arise.”

This might be true down the road, but for this coming year, I vehemently disagree. I strongly feel both DDV and Hart are regarded by Leon as untouchable in 2024-25. Everything after that will depend on how this year goes. I won’t entertain ridiculous scenarios where someone like Jokic or Giannis become available this season. In the real world, the chance of those guys being traded this year is zero.

Couple of thoughts — first, thanks, Doogie.

Z-Man, I tend to land in Noble’s camp about how we can Tall Guy our way to 50 wins. As he mentions playoffs are a different story, but our team is really solid otherwise, and with the Thibs ‘thing’ going (play harder than the other guys), and our talent, barring other injuries 50 is more than reasonable.

Second, I’m continually struck by how people seem to downsize Randle. I mean, of course trade him for someone better, but a 25-10-5 guy is really, really hard to find out there, and we actually already have one (shoulder permitting). It’s why he was All-NBA twice. Not a lot of players can say that. And certainly not the various people that folks here have suggested we include him in for a trade. He has his warts, and I’ve yelled at him through my screen as much as anyone here, but he’s really effing good.

I think I would argue that he’s by far the most under-rated Knick.

Re DDV, I love the guy. But championship teams trade these kinds of guys for key players at positions of need.

It’s not about love, it’s about 3.4 BPM while playing almost 30 minutes in 81 games. At times he looked like a mini-Steph out there.

I guess you can be extremely literal and point out that I cannot say for sure that the Nova guys aren’t untouchable but negatives are notoriously difficult to prove so kinda feels like the burden of proof should fall on the other side of that one.

With different roles this year (coming off the bench for DDV, and getting shorter stints again for Deuce), it’ll be interesting to see if they can keep the heaters going.

If/when DDV and Deuce start clanging shots b/c they are not in the same rhythm as last year, there will be some hand-wringing (from me at least) about Thibs’s rotations. I think coach has a challenging year ahead of him to keep everyone sharp. I’m curious to see if he’s up to it.

Nevertheless, I do think we win 50 games, even if Mitch breaks down again. Of course, if OG or Randle have lingering injuries, I think we’re in trouble.

PS — thanks, Doogie.

Z-man, I saw your post yesterday, and that’s why I made mine – I really don’t think there’s a chance we don’t win 50. We are too deep.

I suspect we’ll find out one way or the other, because Mitch won’t likely be healthy at the beginning of the season, and Lord knows when he comes back he’ll get hurt before too long. But we are so strong on the wings that a rim protector is less crucial, and Precious is a good rebounder, so we’ll be ok. Just nowhere near contending.

Again, the first month or so may look ugly. Julius will take time to get going, Mitch won’t be there, we’ll be figuring things out with Mikal and minutes for everyone, etc. But I’d expect another exciting January if Mitch is back by then and Julius is healthy.

The thing about the Nova core is that it made sense to acquire each one of them individually at the times we did. If they had all gone to separate colleges, we could very well end up with the same team:

– Hart gave us size & a fastbreak
– Donte was the best available MLE target
– Mikal has oft been cited as the perfect fit

How sure are we that this is a Nova thing and not a “let’s get really good players” thing?

If nothing else, I’m sure Donte would enjoy getting more minutes for another ball club. Kolek steps in at PG midseason, Deuce moves over to the 2. If that doesn’t make sense, I’m not sure what does.

EB, that’s why I’m not sold at all on the idea that this was some kind of “get the gang back together at all costs” strategy. There was one “Nova guy” we clearly brought in for reasons other than roster optimization, and that was Archie. We’ve traded him twice.

My best guess is that if there’s a non-Brunson trade involving a Nova guy we can make that would improve our outlook, Leon would talk it over with Brunson, Brunson would give his approval, and the fallout would be…the guys making jokes on Twitter.

In modern NBA you need shooting plus great wing play. It’s crazy how stacked this team is with hyper efficient elite 3&D 2way wings + JB & JR.

No rebounds. No rings. So, we have the best offensive rebounding big in the league. The best rebounding wing in the league. We have a 10+ rebounding vacum cleaner.

Winning teams need chemistry. – Everyone at the very elast likes each other and them ‘nova boys set the vibes by loving each other.

Need mental toughness, dawg and warrior mentality . We have that in spades. Team full of underdawgs with courage and balls and they positively effecting Randle too.

Best NY Knick team since 1970. Can’t wait to watch them take teams out both defensively and offensively.

RE: Trading DDV for a center to fill a need.

I don’t buy it…but I’ll play along. Which two centers would you realistically trade DDV + salary/draft fillers for?

Just to make sure we’re on the same page. DDV was nearly a 20 ppg efficient scorer as a starter. Super quick trigger, 2nd in the whole league in 3 FGM and has swager to hit game winning shots. (behind Steph Curry). Played 81 games and oh…last game he played, the kid made NINE threes and dropped 39 points in game 7 of EC semis.

Lets say for some reason, Thibs prioritizes a back up cardio rim runner and rim protector more than above proven value….Whom?

I don’t know why so many people want to waste Julius on a trade for someone far less of a player than him. Wait until the season starts and see what the team does before we blow it up. The Knicks aren’t going to have a problem getting into the playoffs even if Mitch is the only large center we have.

“Z-Man, I tend to land in Noble’s camp about how we can Tall Guy our way to 50 wins. As he mentions playoffs are a different story, but our team is really solid otherwise, and with the Thibs ‘thing’ going (play harder than the other guys), and our talent, barring other injuries 50 is more than reasonable.”

I dunno, 50 wins is a pretty high benchmark. I think the Tall Guy hypothesis is a sugar-coated euphemism for Not Very Tall Guy Who Literally Sucks And Will Be Targeted On Every Single Possession. But hopefully Mitch will stay reasonably healthy and we won’t have to test this hypothesis.

Just to make sure we’re on the same page. DDV was nearly a 20 ppg efficient scorer as a starter

Yeah, so about that “starter” thing… he’s not starting, and it’s not even clear how many minutes we can give him. Do we want a super-sub for 16mpg or a defensive stalwart for 34mpg?

I’ll remind everyone that a Tom Thibodeau defense demands a high-level defensive C.

Lets say for some reason, Thibs prioritizes a back up cardio rim runner and rim protector more than above proven value….Whom?

Goga or Nurkic. There’s probably others too. We’re not looking for a backup, we’re looking for a starter.

If you could turn Deuce into Kessler, I’d prefer that.

“EB, that’s why I’m not sold at all on the idea that this was some kind of “get the gang back together at all costs” strategy. There was one “Nova guy” we clearly brought in for reasons other than roster optimization, and that was Archie. We’ve traded him twice.”

This is a pretty laughable rebuttal. Archie is a mascot. No one has argued that Leon’s goal is to create a Nova reunion regardless of fit or skill. (Even so, would you bet against him re-appearing on the team on a minimum deal at some point in the very near future?)

The fact is that Leon actually did add, you know, all of the actually good Nova players from Brunson’s era. Specifically, does anyone in their right mind believe that Leon would have paid four unprotected firsts, a lightly protected 2025 first, and an unprotected pick swap for Mikal if he wasn’t from that Nova team? Like that was some kind of odd coincidence?

Now it certainly helped that they were in situations where they became available, and that Mikal was already on an affordable contract, but if you actually believe that the Nova juice wasn’t a major factor in that deal, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

“My best guess is that if there’s a non-Brunson trade involving a Nova guy we can make that would improve our outlook, Leon would talk it over with Brunson, Brunson would give his approval, and the fallout would be…the guys making jokes on Twitter.”

It will be easy to cop out behind “well, it didn’t happen, but if there were such a deal out there my guess is that it would have” when the truth is that everyone knows that there is next to zero chance of that happening. Of course, a large part of the reason it won’t happen is because DDV and Hart are both very good! But they are also likely to be very highly valued in trades….Hart as salary filler and DDV as an excellent player on a dirt-cheap deal. At the end of day, they are not starters and if Mitch is not healthy we will need a starter. And if Leon goes past the trade deadline without a healthy Mitch, to me, that would serve as proof that Leon would rather keep the Nova Four together than improve the chances for a championship this year.

The larger point is that Leon is not Ainge or Morey in that regard. He just won’t do it.

Which is fine by me! I’m not in the championship or bust club. I’d be just fine with keeping that core four intact for a couple of years and using other players to fill holes! I love those guys!

Specifically, does anyone in their right mind believe that Leon would have paid four unprotected firsts, a lightly protected 2025 first, and an unprotected pick swap for Mikal if he wasn’t from that Nova team? Like that was some kind of odd coincidence?

Seems quite plausible, yeah. Mikal Bridges was known to be in very high-demand around the league across multiple seasons, including among teams that do not have an existing Nova Corps. He was the centerpiece of a trade for Kevin Durant.

I, of course, do not know what the precise Very Good Player:Went to Villanova ratio was in terms of the decision to trade for him, but I think the former was quite a strong factor!

Of course, a large part of the reason it won’t happen is because DDV and Hart are both very good! But they are also likely to be very highly valued in trades….Hart as salary filler and DDV as an excellent player on a dirt-cheap deal.

Ok, so, if a player who fits the team better than one or both of these guys hits the trade market and there seems to be a sensible trade involving one or both of them and we don’t make the trade, you’ll be vindicated.

But…what exactly is on the horizon as far as that is concerned? Is there some specific idea you have in mind that isn’t being executed?

It’s ridiculous to say if we don’t shore up the center position, it necessarily means the Nova Corps was untouchable. It is quite possible, in fact I would argue it is the most likely scenario, that no trade opportunity arises wherein we would’ve been well-served by trading one of these guys.

I mean, it pretty much always leaks when someone is available for trade. We’ll know the possibilities.

Goga or Nurkic. There’s probably others too. We’re not looking for a backup, we’re looking for a starter.

Much respect EB, I do see your point IF AND ONLY IF the Knicks were actually looking for a starting caliber center but they’re not. What we had with iHart as a back up was rare.

Does Morey have a championship caliber starting rim protector as a backup? – What about Boston? The backup for Lopez in Milwakee is Bobby Portis and some guy named Anzejs Pasecniks. The back up for Allen in Cleveland is Tristan Thompson.

Ps. Nurkic is softer than charmin.

I’m interested in how Randle’s numbers are going to change this year. I think it’s clear that the team is not going back to my turn your turn iso banality given the buttressing of our wrecking Brunson. Randle is going to fit in and he’s going to need to if he wants a payday on the Knicks or any other contender. Does he go like 18-11-8 plugged into the motion adjustments at the end of last year. He’d be pretty devastating.

We’re gonna fuck the regular season opposition up. Most teams don’t have the personnel to force advantage at the rim if they can’t open lanes. We have the personnel to make sure lanes don’t open.

Clarence, I see 20-10-6. If Mitch goes down early, maybe 21-11-6. I still think that’s devastating.

We just have to be patient while he knocks the rust off and has some really bad games to start. It might be quite painful (plus the fitting in part, on top of that). I might need to keep a chew toy nearby for the turnovers.

“Mikal Bridges was known to be in very high-demand around the league across multiple seasons, including among teams that do not have an existing Nova Corps”

What other team was willing to offer something just under 4 unprotected firsts, a top-4 protected first, and an unprotected pick swap for him? Say without the swap…

Marks said the deal came together quickly…which is code for the Knicks were willing to pay a substantial enough premium above other offers that it was worth trading him to a hated rival in the same market. The Knicks paid an enormous price for whatever marginal value that Mikal + OG gives you over DDV + OG, at the opportunity cost of using considerably less than that to acquire someone like Jalen Duren, and still have picks left to improve the roster at some point during the next two years.

“He was the centerpiece of a trade for Kevin Durant.”

The four unprotected picks were the centerpiece of that trade.

“It is quite possible, in fact I would argue it is the most likely scenario, that no trade opportunity arises wherein we would’ve been well-served by trading one of these guys.”

Josh Hart’s contract is hardly a bargain for a 30yo undersized wing who is a below average shooter. I would argue that any team with a C situation like the Knicks would have without Mitch would be shopping him and his $20M AAV contract furiously. Maybe checking out whether someone like Ujiri would entertain an offer for someone like Poeltl if a protected first or a couple of seconds or someone like Kolek or Dadiet was thrown in. But we will never know because Leon would not do something like that under any circumstances.

The ‘Nova or Not’ argument is interesting. Director NYC made an excellent argument above that DDV is actually fucking really good, full stop. Hart’s a weirder example. What he brings, however, is a mad dog attitude that is totally Thibsian. I think in a vacuum (i.e., no other Novas), he wouldn’t be untouchable but you’d have to physically fight Thibs to trade him. He probably leads the league in intangibles (which may be the stupidest thing I’ve ever written, but yet might also be true…).

What I could see happening is that Mikal brings a much smoother and more well-rounded game with a silkier mad dog attitude (partly hidden by that pretty smile), which could end up making Hart redundant and expendable.

Don’t really know what Mikal will bring, so looking forward to that immensely. It may be that they’re similar but different enough to both be key cogs. We shall see.

“I think in a vacuum (i.e., no other Novas), he wouldn’t be untouchable but you’d have to physically fight Thibs to trade him. He probably leads the league in intangibles (which may be the stupidest thing I’ve ever written, but yet might also be true…).”

This is all true, but it also suggests that “winning a championship, period” is not the MO of this front office. If it was, there should be no mandate to keep Thibs happy, and there should be no bench player on a market value deal (at best in Hart’s case) that is virtually untouchable in a situation where you need a legit starter.

As to intangibles, much of what Hart brought over the past 2 years is overlapped by what Mikal and OG bring, and to a lesser degree, Deuce and Randle. He’s a very valuable player in his role and even outside of it, but not the level of player you withhold in a trade when you have a gaping hole in your starting five. Obviously chemistry is a critical factor, and Nova or not, he’s a “heart and soul of the team” kind of player. But the drop-off from Mitch to Precious or Sims is far greater than the drop-off from Hart and whoever replaces his minutes and role. Precious is 6’8″ and 225lbs and not a rotation player on most playoff teams. Sims likely sucks. Huk is a rookie who will likely suck at least as bad as Sims.

Looking at things differently, what if Josh Hart was out for the year and everyone else including Mitch was healthy? Would the win total projection change as much as it would if Mitch were out for the year?

Does Morey have a championship caliber starting rim protector as a backup? – What about Boston? The backup for Lopez in Milwakee is Bobby Portis and some guy named Anzejs Pasecniks. The back up for Allen in Cleveland is Tristan Thompson.

But how many championship caliber teams feature a C as injury-prone as Mitch?

– Boston backs up KP with Horford
– If Embiid goes down, their season is over regardless
– Allen’s backup is Mobley
– At worst, MIL still has Gianni’s as a rim protector

If Thibs insists on 48 minutes of a rim protector he’d burn Mitch in 25 games and until then he will not be able to manage the minutes of all his excellent to brilliant wings. He has to go *some* small ball from the start.

Jokic’s backups are DeAndre Jordan (100 years old), DaRon Holmes and PJ Hall (6’8″ and 6’9″ and bad).

Anthony Davis’ backup is Jaxson Hayes (not so bad, but no starter…)

Bam’s backup is Thomas Bryant (ugh)

Miles Turner’s backup is James Wiseman (heh)

On the other hand, the Mavs have a two-headed monster with Lively and Gafford, with Dwight Powell hanging around.

Minnesota and OKC, never mind.

“At worst, MIL still has Giannis’s as a rim protector”

And this is part of the problem. Our starting PF is not an above average defender, especially at the rim. OG is a lot of things on defense, but he’s not a C. Mikal and OG are not going to make up for all of the defensive deficiencies of Brunson, Randle, and a third-string C masquerading as a starter. If we had a PF that was more defensively versatile, the C problem wouldn’t be as alarming.

Very few of us here worried about loosing iHart like I did and saw it coming but the Knicks are super stacked @ 1-4 with 2 ALL-NBA and 2 of the best 3&D wingers in the world as starters and with backups that won 50 last year. This is INSANE and super super rare. Only OKC and Boston are stacked 1-4 like NY and they won a championship with Luke Kornet and a 38yr old 6’9” guy pretending to protect the rim.

“If Thibs insists on 48 minutes of a rim protector he’d burn Mitch in 25 games and until then he will not be able to manage the minutes of all his excellent to brilliant wings. He has to go *some* small ball from the start.”

That’s true, but we’re talking about what happens even if he uses Mitch correctly and he gets hurt anyway. It’s not like he was playing 40mpg when he was “healthy.” He has lower leg issues that have not yet been resolved in spite of two surgeries. If your hopes are contingent upon him being largely healthy, especially for the playoffs, and your plan B is something along the lines of Precious and Sims, you’re asking for trouble.

….and your plan B is something along the lines of Precious and Sims, you’re asking for trouble.

Thats not plan B though. Plan B is Leon plugs the hole. It’s the easiest mid season fix in the industry. We don’t need a skilful player, just a rim runner with elite size and athleticism.

Stop worrying, brother. No team is ever 100% perfect.

“Only OKC and Boston are stacked 1-4 like NY and they won a championship with Luke Kornet and a 38yr old 6’9” guy pretending to protect the rim.”

OKC has some 7’1″ guy named Chet Holmgrem who played all 82 games last year (2,413 minutes) and had more blocks than Mitch, iHart and Precious combined. And they still felt they needed to add a starting C for $29M AAV!

Al Horford put up a 3.6 BPM (iHart was at 3.5) in 1,740 minutes, and when KP went down, he played 575 playoff minutes to a 3.1 BPM. Not to mention that he also stretches the floor and is one of the headiest players in the game. Mitch hit that minutes total once in his 6 year career, a whopping 1,848 minutes.

“Thats not plan B though. Plan B is Leon plugs the hole. It’s the easiest mid season fix in the industry. We don’t need a skilful player, just a rim runner with elite size and athleticism.”

Agreed. And that would be no sweat if you have non-essential matching salary or first round picks to acquire one of those (or you picked one in the 2024 draft…sigh!) My worry is that you will have to give up something good to get one of those. But hey, Leon has come through before, hopefully he will again!

Maybe checking out whether someone like Ujiri would entertain an offer for someone like Poeltl if a protected first or a couple of seconds or someone like Kolek or Dadiet was thrown in. But we will never know because Leon would not do something like that under any circumstances.

It is admittedly a sly rhetorical move to suggest a trade that won’t happen for other reasons (Poeltl is much more valuable to the Raptors than Hart would be, and the Knicks basically can’t add draft capital as sweetener this season) and say it won’t happen because of Leon’s Nova hangup, but I don’t view it as convincing evidence of such a hangup.

I don’t really care if the ‘Nova hang-up is real or not, because I truly believe that it provides chemistry for our team that may be unmatched across the entire league. I would vote for keeping that core together for anything other than the most unforeseen circumstances.

I’m almost in lockstep with Z-man on the center issue, except for the fact that I think that Precious is at least a little better than he does. That said, I do want someone even better, and probably the only players I’d want to give up to get a starting center would be Julius and Deuce (especially Julius). I love Julius and I think that he is a great player (the type that can largely net us a starting center), and the reason I think that he is expendable is simply because we did not have him last year and were able to go on that great post-season run without him.

“Poeltl is much more valuable to the Raptors than Hart would be”

Toronto is rebuilding, I don’t think they really care about positional value, and Poeltl’s contract is market value at best. They can turn around and trade Hart later if they don’t want him, someone will be happy to take him off their hands.

“…and the Knicks basically can’t add draft capital as sweetener this season…”

Wait, the Knicks can’t include future second rounders or DET or WAS protected firsts to sweeten a trade? Or any of their young players?

It’s also pretty slippery to cop out behind the “well Leon would trade Hart or DDV if certain conditions arose (the vague ‘it would improve the team”) and then suggest that no such trade would present itself all year, and if it did we’d hear about it. To suggest that a pure moneyball GM like Ainge or Presti in Leon’s place couldn’t engineer a trade involving Josh Hart in the current market up until the trade deadline that would make this version of the Knicks at least somewhat better on paper doesn’t pass the smell test.

We all know that Brunson, OG and Mikal are untouchable for the foreseeable future.

We all know that there is a near zero chance that either Hart or DDV will be traded this year, even if every expert in the league believes it would make the team better (ignoring the would never happen in a billion years stuff, like Hart and Julius for Giannis or Doncic or Jokic or SGA, etc.) They are going to run with this Nova Quartet for the duration of the 2024-25 season no matter what happens. Every iota of evidence in building this team points in that direction. But sure, I can’t prove it because surely every trade that is possible involving those guys has little chance of improving the team. Whatever.

I wonder which C’s will actually become available in the next 6 months or so…

So Z-Man, what mid-level centers would you actually want? Frankly I’d skip Poeltl, the guy shoots 53% from the stripe and we already have one of those.

And no fair saying iHart.

I’d still be interested in Duren, personally.

Off the top of my head:
-Duren, of course!
-Poeltl is fine by me, even with FT woes. He’s a legit starter.
-I like Kessler more than many here, but Ainge…
-JV at the right price would not excite me but I could warm up to that
-RWIII if he shows that he’s not about to break down again…would love to see him block a million Celtics shots.
-Looney
-Capela

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the lower-level guys signed earlier this offseason becomes available at the right price whenever they become eligible to be traded.

I HATE the Yankees and I can no longer help doom-scrolling their box scores. It’s sick.

I haven’t posted for a while and have a couple of overdue comments. First and foremost, get better soon Strat. We miss you.

Second, I think that in the past it was true that competent backup big men have been relatively easy to acquire, but now it’s different. In the past we drafted Mitch in the thirties and he was good enough to be our starting center, and still took years to get paid a normal NBA salary. But the market has changed. Teams with good quality real centers are doing well (for example, Philadelphia, Denver and Minnesota) and other such teams like Miami and the Lakers are as good as they are because they have a quality center. Even the Knicks are an example of how good big men can work for a team. Other teams are noticing this. OKC just hired iHart for a large salary and there’s not much on the market for us as a backup. This reflects a real change in the NBA market for centers.

Finally, I don’t think Sims and Precious are so bad as backups. They don’t have much offense, but they defend and get rebounds. That’s probably as good as what half of the teams mentioned in posts above have.

Jokic’s backups are DeAndre Jordan (100 years old), DaRon Holmes and PJ Hall (6’8″ and 6’9″ and bad).

Anthony Davis’ backup is Jaxson Hayes (not so bad, but no starter…)

Bam’s backup is Thomas Bryant (ugh)

If Jokic or AD go down, their season is over. Who are they supposed to bring in? The same isn’t necessarily true if Mitch goes down.

And again, none of those guys are anywhere near as injury-prone as Mitch who has played 1800 minutes only once in his career. In his next best season he nearly made it to 1600. He’s never even managed to play 30mpg in a season, he gets hurt playing reserve minutes.

– Jokic has played over 2000 min every season except his rookie year when he played 1700+

– Bam has played over 1800 min every year except his rookie season. He’s been over 2000min four times

– Surely the famously injury-prone AD is on par with Mitch? Nope. The most Mitch has played in a season is 1848 min, AD has cleared that all but 3 times in his long career. In one of the misses he played a whopping 2 fewer minutes.

I want to add to my recent post that competent big men aren’t being passed over in recent drafts either. Look at Duren and Clingan, for example.

This Yankees team is so fucking unserious.

Even in the season Mitch played all 72 games and had 1,848 minutes he only played 25.7 mpg. He’s never played more than 27.5 mpg. You can’t really compare him to stars like Jokic (career 31.2 mpg), AD (career 34.5 mpg), Bam (career 30 mpg).

“Finally, I don’t think Sims and Precious are so bad as backups. They don’t have much offense, but they defend and get rebounds. That’s probably as good as what half of the teams mentioned in posts above have.”

They would be decent backups behind a star C. Not so much with a middling C like Mitch. But that’s not what is relevant here. The question is: what about if you have to go a long stretch with one of them as a starter because Mitch blows out his foot again? When you have guys like Embiid, KP, Jokic, Gobert, Wemby, Bam, AD, Giannis, Turner, and others going against Precious and Sims?

Eddy Curry and Jerome James could be the centers on this Knicks team and they’d still win 50+ games.

Thanks for all the kind words.

I may be turning the corner. The fever dropped to 100 and my throat is improved enough to eat. I have a persistent cough, but I don’t feel nearly as sick. If there are no relapses I should be back in business soon. 🙏

Good to hear, strat!

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