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2022-23 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hornets

Three home games in a row spread out over a week is weird, right?

In any event, the Knicks have a big game tonight, hosting the mediocre Hornets in front of a stretch of tough games. The Knicks have shown that they can beat up shitty teams, but being able to also beat mediocre teams would go a long way towards making my win prediction come true and, really, isn’t that the most important thing overall?

Let’s go, Knicks!

307 replies on “2022-23 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hornets”

I hope we win, but if we don’t I specifically hope it’s *because* it’s the DSJ revenge game. I mean that would be hilarious.

“DSJ spent parts of 3 seasons with the Knicks”
And here i was thinking that he only played a single season with us. 😀

Mitch dominating early in the paint. The Knicks seem to be able to score at will … unless RJ has the ball.

Going to need to do a deep dive on the take foul rule. That second one there were two guys back. Surprised it’s still an infraction.

Max, that’s very true, but even though the take foul call was correct on the first one, one point for the hornets and possession wasn’t any worse for the Knicks than a sure two points. The second wasn’t worth it for the Knicks. So even with the new rule there may be situations where it’s worth doing it, but fewer than before.

I will never get used to Rose being automatic with that weird looking shot

Hahaha, same here

Man, first Knicks game I’ve watched in awhile and RJ just plays ugly. I was opposed to the Donovan trade mostly because of the sheer number of picks that would’ve been lost, but I would not have minded if RJ was part of it.

Ugly to watch at times, but 9 of 10 Knicks are on the board after one. That’s some balance.

This is the sort of game I want Brunson to step up and right the ship when the underdog makes its run. He did it well last game.

Both of these Js going left by DSJ were very smooth. Must have taken some Hitch-B-Gone before the season.

DSJ revenge tour might be real.

The question “is Immanuel Quickley a good shooter?” appears to be more complicated that I’d like it to be.

The question “is Immanuel Quickley a good shooter?”

His shot looks nothing like his rookie year shot. He’s seems to almost never set set his feet and always seems off balance.

I enjoy watching Brunson a lot. Like how often did a non Lin point guard go coast to coast like that in the last 20 years?

He’s done a bunch of cool stuff tonight

I try not to be a couch coach but Mason Plumlee’s free throw motion is totally unacceptable

Who do we dislike more, Gordon Hayward, or Gordon Hayward’s barber?

Personally, I don’t like the way Randle is playing tonight. It has been a mix of good Randle and bad Randle to me in terms of shot selection, but at least he’s not turning the ball over.

MItch is playing defense

I feel like everyone in the NBA worked on their floaters all summer

The floater is back envogue because everyone packs the paint and gets up on 3s. Floaters are now open and good percentage shots

Both of these Js going left by DSJ were very smooth. Must have taken some Hitch-B-Gone before the season.

too funny 🙂

mostly though – this:

So far, the new Dennis Smith looks a lot like the old Dennis Smith.

full disclosure: i’m a little light on the head salad…still though:

Hayward working that Sling Blade look hard

still though, that definitely looks like a hair mistake rather than hair style…

I’m pissed at Randle for that last Oubre 3pt shot. He didn’t get back on D after missing the layup

The floater is back envogue because everyone packs the paint and gets up on 3s. Floaters are now open and good percentage shots

that sounds good EB, sure seems like it’s an early point of emphasis with the team…

Randle has traded bricked mid range garbage for missed shots at the rim this game. The latter is less aesthetically offensive so he gets a pass from me, but the result is the same.

I feel like everyone in the NBA worked on their floaters all summer

Thibs talked about it at one of the pressers. He likes the shot because it gives the shooter a good chance at an offensive rebound.

Thibs should have an aneurysm. This defense has been awful.

Knicks seem very interested in losing the game.

Our offense is loaded this year. Hard to oversell having 6 guys who can go off on any given night. Having Rose healthy as that extra guy is a big boost.

The best thing about watching the Knicks on League Pass is getting to watch the Knick City Dancers.

It’s time for Thibs to start smacking people around during the timeout. They are playing like they can win any time they want. That’s how you blow games like this. Time to play some defense with urgency.

Rj was playing “How Many Layups Can Gordon Make” this quarter.

Hayward might be rich and famous but all of that money and fame won’t fix that ugly fuckin’ face

lookin like Gummo over here

“brunson is one tricky son of gun around the hoop…”

**
Yeah, every time we need a difficult hoop, he comes through. It’s a new feeling 😉

Love Hart. So rootable even if he takes minutes from Mitch.

Wow Brunson might book a triple double

I really miss Noel’s blocks and dropped passes, but iHart is kind of fun.

“RJ ought to try playing good defense. Or good offense. At least one of the two.”
**
Yeah, he clearly looks a mess tonight, but the box says 6/12 (so far), so we’re the only ones who will know …

EDIT: Obi still stuck at 8 minutes at the end of the third. The Reddish Effect.

We’re running pick n roll action. Didn’t know we were allowed to do that… lol

You know what… IQ bought that foul with some keen acting and I’m not mad at that…

Cam spends a lot of time just standing in the corner, but it feels like sometimes he’s open and they just look him off. Maybe it’s because every time he gets a touch he tries to score, but maybe he tries to score every time he gets the ball because they don’t pass to him.

That last 3 has been there a couple of times.

Before this game, I’d have thought a Maledon was a dinosaur. But now I know better.

Obi’s dream of being sixth man of the year falling to tenth man of the year.

Our defense is not what I expected… Guards wandering off their men too far, 2nd big failing to rotate after the first steps up to stop the penetration… Frustrating

“I struggle to tell if iHart is good or bad”

He’s very much a different version of Nerlens in that way….

Maybe the starters are starting for a reason.

This is 8-13 for the Hornets and we are getting cut up

This is what happens when you goof around for 3 quarters and let the other team hang around. smh

Play some damn defense!

Get IQ out of there.

I’m the original IQ stan but yeah he’s not sharp tonight. It’s like the Hornets’ guards are flummoxing him on both ends.

OMG, Thibs looked like he was going strangle someone after that Cam TO and the offensive rebound put back on the other end.

Cam’s ability to create shots is what also gets him into trouble. When you can do a lot, you sometimes try to do too much. That leads to bad shots and TOs.

On the bright side, nice to see Thibs embrace the whole “when Julius Randle is sucking, you can put in his highly capable backup” idea

I can’t believe I’m actually happy to see Fournier back in… ugh except that foul was stupid.

I don’t know if they’ll call it on the challenge but Brunson got swiped on the arm while the tie up was happening by the player to his left

Not sure of the subs down the stretch tonight.

DRose was playing well, so why take him out.
Brunson may be back too early or maybe let him play with Rose a bit.
Instead E4 was brought back for defense? Or turnovers?
Obi is now done for the night with only 13 minutes.
And RJ has been trash, so …

You know, if mistakes like that leads RJ to be better later in the season, then OK. But if you’re RJ and you got a small guy in DS Jr on you, you gotta know your moveset to cook the dude. One of RJ’s strengths is his strength – he’s gotta know how to use it.

FWIW, I thought Plumlee had position and went straight up, if that means anything.

DSJ is looking pretty good this quarter.

Should’ve known Oubre was going to to at Fournier and there you go…

When in Grimes gonna be healthy again?

The Hornets look like they’ve never played with a lead before. It’s really helpful for the Knicks. Lots of picked up dribbles.

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This feels like RJ’s worst game as a Knick. I’m cringing every time he touches the ball.

Big bucket by Randle! He seemed shocked that he was uncontested (“Seriously? You’re just going to let me go right up with this?”).

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Great board by Randle, but even better play tapping the ball back to Brunson on the inbounds

When you can move like that, it really makes the other Charlotte possessions look even dumber. But no one ever accused Dennis Smith Jr. of being a smart player.

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Despite his play, I think I would put RJ on DS Jr on this last possession.

Thank god for the Knicks that the Hornets never practiced late in game possessions. “Shit, 2 seconds left. Should I make a move now?”

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Weird they put the ball in Hayward’s hands. DS Jr had been getting into the paint at will in the 4th and that’s what they draw up?

OOF.

“Thank god for the Knicks that the Hornets never practiced late in game possessions. “Shit, 2 seconds left. Should I make a move now?”

Exactly. Haha. Just not excited that our own “last play” was Return of the Dervish.

We gifted them 3 points on the FTs for the take fouls
and the game goes OT, I’m steaming…

Weird they put the ball in Hayward’s hands. DS Jr had been getting into the paint at will in the 4th and that’s what they draw up?

Terrible decision-making by them throughout the last three minutes. It has definitely kept the Knicks in this game. But hey, better that then not, ya know?

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Warned y’all about the DSJ revenge tour

Fortunately, the Hornets haven’t had enough time to work him into their final possession play design. lol

So many garbage sets by the Knicks. RJ & Randle look terrible right now.

I think the Hornets have been doing dumber sets, but the Knicks’ sets are just executed poorly. Except for Brunson, on occasion.

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Yeah, Brunson is the one guy out there still giving a shit on offense. Good for him.

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Can’t complain about Cam’s shot there

Yeah, just poor execution.

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Fortunately, the Hornets haven’t had enough time to work him into their final possession play design. lol

Remarkably poor play design, right?

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Hahahah, what a terrible defensive set! Amazing! Yay, Mitch! That’s the DSJ we all remember.

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Did Brunson just head fake the defender to the top of the key. Hahahahaha. Mitch with the dunk.

Randle, buddy, you don’t have that shot. Stop trying to force it.

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Randle forcing again. It’s so ugly. You really how to wonder how his mind works…or rather doesn’t work.

It’s 4 games but there is literally no Knick I have ever wanted to have the ball in a close game more than Jalen Brunson

Did Brunson just head fake the defender to the top of the key.

DSJ literally funneled the ball directly to Mitch alone under the basket. It was breathtaking in its stupidity.

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Other teams should really look into this PG thing that we must’ve just invented

Randle, buddy, you don’t have that shot. Stop trying to force it.

Agreed. None of the Hornets PFs can D him but he shouldn’t force that.

What a shit show…between Barrett and Randle…the decision making is borderline atrocious

That horribly missed three was like a great pass. It still led to no basket, but it could have! Fourth dimensional chess!

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“Why is Randle the 2nd option….he is out of control….thibs is asleep at the wheel”
B/C our other 2nd option has been playing with cobwebs

We would have gotten blow out in this game last year. Brunson is the only reason it’s a game. The rest of the Knicks are being Knicks.

Literally can’t remember the last time the Knicks had any semblance of solid PG play. Brunson is keeping them in this game. Also checked the box scores and RJ somehow has 20pt. Could’ve fooled me. He’s gotten them ugly.

Randle FINALLY got to the cup on one of those drives!

Better late than never!

Randle has missed a bunch of shots late but at least they are all drives to the paint, not settling for mid range jumpers.

Also checked the box scores and RJ somehow has 20pt. Could’ve fooled me. He’s gotten them ugly.

“RJ Barrett is a 20 point per game player” will be the only takeaway.

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Brunson playing his arse off and also watching some of Randle’s moves, shaking his head as if to say, “So this is the problem they were talking about. I got this.”

Late to the comment thread (didn’t realize I had to make my username again after the site change), so I apologize if this seems late:

If the foul on randle was a “take foul”, how is the foul on Plumlee in OT NOT a take foul also?? Can someone explain how they differentiate these?

Ah, there’s the stupidity I remember…

The Knicks have some heady players now in Brunson, Fournier, Grimes, but Julius gotta Julius

Haha, Washington, what a dummy. This is your job, buddy! You have to know where the line is!

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MITCH!

Rohan, that is what I was referring to. And Mitch would not have had to shoot the foul shot.

Mitch. OMG. How did he not foul. He is really stepping up.

Two points. Only two points. Run … out … the … f’ing … clock.

Rohan, that is what I was referring to. And Mitch would not have had to shoot the foul shot.

Yeah, I sarcastically called it a great foul by Plumlee when it happened, since it was so dumb. It should have been a take foul.

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Cam was a step late in contesting that. Good thing dude’s foot was on the line

I’ve been out and missed all but the last 4 minutes of regulation can someone explain why Cam is in here giving up open shots instead of Quickley?

If you look at the replay I think Randle touched the ball as it was headed out of bounds and that’s why he tried to save it.

Hornets more Knicksy than Knicks!!!

I’ll take it! Winning is better than losing, even if you play like shit while winning.

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I think this explain:

“ The new change does, however, come with a caveat: Teams can commit a take foul in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period without facing the new penalty.”

My best guess is that Cam is out here for “height”. Otherwise they should have gone for Rose.

Thibs wanted Cams length? Hard to say. IQ wasn’t great tonight.

RJs foul shots look better

I think this explain:

“ The new change does, however, come with a caveat: Teams can commit a take foul in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period without facing the new penalty.”

Thanks, Max. But why foul period there, though?

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A win is a win is a win. 3-1, baby! Exactly 49 wins, here we go!

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this week on Steam: 69% off Professional Basketball Time-Management Simulator

Usually I am “pro” fouling when up 3, but that’s usually when the other team has advanced the ball into the front court. When they have to go the length of the floor in 3 seconds, probably better to let them take a low percentage off balance running 3. Right?

this week on Steam: 69% off Professional Basketball Time-Management Simulator

wow nice win

We tried our best to lose but to no avail…

Jalen Brunson will go to the All-Star game.

I would have loved to see the following lineup to close out the game:

Brunson
Rose
Barrett
Toppin
Mitch.

I know Brunson will never be a defensive stopper with his size but maaaaaan did he earn his money tonight!

Kaylen may not be top tier, Ja-level, but he’s pretty dang good, and what this team has needed for years – not just competent PG play, but SMART play

I thought Reddish played OK in clutch time aside from giving up that long 2 that was supposed to have been a 3. I may be OK with him in such situations if the other option is Fornier (while we wait for Grimes to get back).

I really, really love having Jalen Brunson in a Knicks shirt. Calm and collected, making the right play, he’s truly a game changer. 27 points on 15 shots, 13 assists with 3 turnovers, clutch shots, this game is a 20 point blowout with Elfrid or Kemba in his place.

Randle and RJ were bad but at least they redeemed themselves somewhat in important moments so they get a momentary pass, and Mitch was just massive. I’m fine with an ugly win like that would certainly be a loss last season.

This wasn’t always as fun to watch as the last games, but they made it work. Thibs showing a lot of faith in Reddish despite some some lapses from him, very surprising…

That was a game that could have sent the Knicks spiraling downward. Brunson is the adult on the floor at all times.

We won, but, man, not one of Brunson, RJ, E4, IQ, Cam, or Randle could stay with their man on D tonight. Thibs firing up the projector tomorrow.

Randle and RJ were bad but at least they redeemed themselves somewhat in important moments so they get a momentary pass, and Mitch was just massive. I’m fine with an ugly win like that would certainly be a loss last season.

RJ was not good down the stretch outside of those clutch FTs. He missed some layups and shots that he needs to make if he really wants to be an upper echelon scorer.

These trap games are the kind that teams with aspirations need to win at home, by hook or by crook. And you need that guy to make the difference-maker plays to do that. Brunson is that kind of player. Derrick Rose is also that kind of player.

IQ was a mess out there, he looks indecisive and seems easy to lure into turnovers…

Takeaway for me is a great win that Gilooly’d any hope I may have been nurturing of us winning a playoff series.

So much dumb shit but a very fun night

RJ with a 29.7% USG. Maybe Strat is right about this one. He shot terribly and this is the closest any Knick has gotten to a 30% USG this season.

Randle 23.4%
Brunson 21.1%
Fournier 24.1%

Tonight was not the night for Randle & RJ to dominate usage. We could really use Fournier with RJ & Randle bricking 3s. Randle 30% even. RJ 14.3%(?!).

I just don’t think this team can have Randle and RJ out there together. And as much as Randle reverted tonight, RJ is worse.

“I just don’t think this team can have Randle and RJ out there together. And as much as Randle reverted tonight, RJ is worse.”

Agree…one of them needs to go..never gonna work…at all.

RJ got backdoored multiple times and had as much trouble staying in front of guys as anyone.
On the plus side, RJ RJ’ed and Randle Randled and we still scored 122 in regulation.
On the down side, you can see why the Knicks refused to include Grimes in the Spider deal- their on the ball defense has been awful to start the season.
And finally, one big difference between Mitch and Hart defensively is that Mitch is much more economical in motion- these days on the perimeter he steps out just enough to contest and is quick to drop back into the paint and his paint positioning has been great- always on balance and ready to challenge quickly. Hart runs around a LOT more and seems to get his head turned a lot more than Mitch does. When the Knicks guards can keep any kind of contact on opposing drives Mitch just swallows guys up. When they’re getting free runs like they had tonight even Mitch can’t stop them.

Um, Z–Man, I think it was RJ that kept wandering off and leaving guys for the backdoor layups.

And Cdiggy, here’s your sentence, fixed: “He missed some layups and shots that he needs to make if he really wants to be a replacement level NBA professional.”

But here’s to a Denver blowout this evening, for your sake!

With RJ, frankly, I just don’t see it. He’s a bad shooter, bad finisher, his drives are predictable and slow and he can’t beat his man consistently to be useful in isolation, he has poor court vision and handles… he’s got way too much he needs to improve to become a star.

I just don’t see a path towards him becoming a star, I don’t see the athleticism or the technique required to eventually get there, I just see a nice kid who was hyped in high school and college and takes a bunch of shots because of that, so he’ll eventually score 20 ppg and that’s about it.

I like that he tries hard on defense, but that’s just not enough. He would have to be an elite, prime Kawhi Leonard mega star defender to make up for shooting this poorly on so much usage. I know I’m being harsh and he’s still very young etc etc so let’s not just throw him away, let him develop, but I just don’t see it myself right now.

I’m with you Bruno…I don’t see it…but then again…Dennis Smith Jr looked liked a pro player tonight and never saw that happening…

But if RJ Barret’s name wasn’t RJ Barret…we would likely be wondering why he gets the run that he does…I can’t see where anyone would like to play with a guy who never passes and chucks up prayer’s with reckless abandon…at least Randle breaks a sweat…

For RJ, I want the kid to succeed, but he’s looked bad this year. Tonight’s box won’t persuade him, though. He’s the second highest scorer on the team with 22, shot 9/21, hit all 4 free throws including two clutch, had 8 bounds, a block, an assist. RJ won’t put this in the ugly game category like we do. Yes, he had 4 turnovers and an entire game of defensive lapses, but he thinks: I scored 22 and we won. Time will tell if he gets better or wise or both. I can wait till the end of this year, but c’mon now. Let’s go.

RJ did get burned a bunch.

Mitch looks much better in defense so far. There were some mistakes of course and the one play I would love to review is that Oubre layup over him in overtime. Have no idea how that got through.

Generally speaking though he does seem much more contained and deliberate this year.

The Knicks perimeter d has been totally shambolic and the fast break d was nonexistent.

I don’t know whether I trust Grimes yet but the idea of Grimes is great. It’s exactly what we need.

Obi hitting three threes was another mild positive but the second unit was totally out of sorts ex Rose

I thought the 2nd unit vibed offensively for a while, but the lack of perimeter D had iHart looking like a drunk traffic cop in the 2nd half. IQ scored but looked very indecisive in that second half plus he wasn’t good defensively – he’s needs to better than that especially when he’s sharing the backcourt with Rose.

I think the roster could use a little bit of a shakeup, and we should bring in a defensive specialist or two to play at the guard/wing positions. We have some decent defenders in that category, but nobody who can really play lockdown defense. Tonight we couldn’t get stops and we had nobody to go to when we needed one.

man…sure…gives me the warm fuzzy to watch the lakers in shambles…couldn’t happen to a nicer fan base…what a mess

I couldn’t watch the game due to work, but I looked at the box score and I glanced at a Hornets blog. The Hornets fans were disappointed but not too much because three of their five starters couldn’t play and they were on the road, so they considered a win unlikely. They have a point. And the game score and reading this blog suggests the Knicks didn’t defend well (even give that Charlotte is one of the top offenses in the league so far). I’m happy with the win, but think our current 3-1 record conceals stuff to worry about.

RJ has 7 TOs—SEVEN(!!!)—to 2 assists over the last 2 games.

He’s shooting .143 from 3.

On the bright side he’s at a career high 2p% pace at .461. His best year is .457, which combined with 40% 3pt shooting got him to a .530ish TS% way below league average. So if he keeps up his 2p% against teams that aren’t awful on defense and he shoots 40% from 3, he’ll almost be a not terrible player.

Yeah, holy shit, RJ, and yet the announcers were tongue bathing him tonight. Crazy.

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