While I despise me some Hali, I definitely think Indy is laying in the weeds. More generally, having Carlisle and Spo steering viable rosters again is going to add a lot of spice to this season.

I would also go as far as to say that having a “defending champs” target on our backs is going to make this regular season a grind like Knicks fans have never experienced before. Obviously everyone is making a big deal out of the Sixers, but in addition to the revamped Pacers and Heat, the Pistons, Celtics, Magic, Hawks, and Raptors are all going to be a handful when we play them. not to mention the teams out west. I’m expecting a lot of games with playoff intensity at MSG right from the get-go.

It’s going to be interesting. Because on the one hand, we’re the defending champs, and everybody wants to knock off the champ. But on the other hand, it really does feel like a lot of the league and the media that covers it is treating the championship as a fluke, an afterthought, or at least something less relevant than Wemby vs Shai, the Sixers super team, etc. I’m not saying we’re going to be overlooked by other teams, but there might not be quite the same relentlessness from opponents that some other champs get.

Or maybe that’s just my coping mechanism.

Teams already come to MSG amped up to play there, so I’m not sure us being champions will make a difference at home. On the road, we probably will fill the arenas more than last year and the opponents may play harder, do it coukd make a difference there.

Teams always get up for playing in MSG, so I don’t think there will be that much of a difference. The anti-tanking rule will have an effect, though. And I’m curious to see what Indy looks like after a year off for Hali and a bunch of changes. I don’t underestimate Carlisle at all, but they weren’t a great regular season team before anyway.

I think the Heat will struggle without enough shooting around Giannis. Could be wrong. Their D should be legit, and that will win games some nights.

Edit: ditto to KFinNJ

I feel like there’s two ways this season can go:

A. The Knicks take their title defense very seriously, have a strong regular season, and send a message to the league that their title was no fluke by winning 58-60 games.

B. The Knicks do not decide to match the intensity of every team they face, they struggle to find motivation, have lots of off nights, win 52 or 53 games again.

History tells us that if we want to repeat, we might want option B.

All the recent champs went with A and lost in the 2nd or 3rd round. I’m not suggesting that’s why they lost, just that their regular season success didn’t really help them.

Most of the teams who repeated — the Warriors, the Heatles, the Lakers, the Bulls –did so because they were dominant teams. We’re not a dominant team and I don’t think we should go back to the Thibs route and wear ourselves out in the regular season.

I’m thinking of several comps:

The first comp is the NY Giants. Even though it’s a different league I think they line up perfectly. Everyone thought their Super Bowl win was lucky. Then they spent the first 13 games of the next season dominating teams. It was immensely satisfying to prove to the whole world that our title was legit. Then when they were 12-1 Plaxico shot himself in the leg and the team fell apart, ultimately losing indignantly to Philly in the second round.

That’s not what I want. I’d rather struggle in the regular season again.

The most famous basketball example of that was the 73 win Warriors. After winning a title many dismissed as fluky because three-pointers weren’t accepted yet and half of the Cavs were injured, the Warriors put together the greatest fuck-you season of all time. Then they lost in the finals and openly admitted that the effort they put into defending their title and pursuing 73 wins wore them down and was a mistake. They never treated a regular season that way again, even when they had Durant.

The comp for us I do like is the ’95 Houston Rockets. They struggled to defend their title. They even shook things up in the middle of the season by trading for Drexler. They ended up a 6 seed. And then in the playoffs Hakeem said “I got this now” and steamrolled everyone.

If there’s a path to us repeating, I think that’s it. Let all these other teams get us in the regular season. Don’t use the KAT package every night and give teams the opportunity to practice guarding it. Finish 4th in the East for all I care. Just be rested and healthy for the playoffs and turn on the jets.

I think it depends upon if we get off to a gangbusters start. If we do and Philly doesn’t, we’ve got the target on our back ; vice versa and the target moves to Philly. Either way, I think what happens out West takes a subordinate role because it really seems to be wait till OKC and SA meet in the post season –no regular season intrigue. But in the East a team on an early 60+ win pace–be it us, Philly, Boston, Miami, or Indy–will make for intriguing drama. Unlike the last 2 years when Cleveland and Detroit were on that trajectory but never felt they were threats to the West, let alone even favourites to win the East.

rama and kfninj are right about teams always getting up. but guys, it’s different now. we’re a bigger deal than ever. teams are going to want this scalp like never before.

I think Philly and Boston will be great regular season teams.

Philly – Brown and Maxey are two of the best regular season players in the NBA. They play every night, play big minutes, carry huge loads. Even if LeBron and Embiid only show up sporadically, having those two guys on the court for 80ish games at 35 mpg is enough for a great regular season.

Boston – man are these guys getting slept on. they are going to be an incredible regular season team. my bet for the 1 seed and I don’t think it will be close.

I don’t want to try to match regular season wins with either of these teams.

When it comes to the playoffs, I think the Knicks and Pacers will be the two best teams. Indy’s going to be like us last year (and like them two years ago) — they’ll take a while to get going, mess around in the regular season, and then figure it out.

One thing to keep in mind about the Pacers, though — their run to the title two years was fueled by fluky 3P shooting, too. They actually had the same .391 3P% we did. But they needed fluky shooting just to squeeze by teams. They had a 2.0 net rating, we had a 15.5. We could have shot league average and still made the finals. If they’d shot league average they’d have lost in round 1.

It’s going to be a really fun year. Too bad our piece of shit owner mandated that we do it at less than full strength.

Hubert, I would throw Miami into the mix. Despite the supporting cast, Giannis has never played for a team coached by someone remotely as good as Spo. And Giannis is the perfect prototype for a player to be integrated into a team by an excellent coach. I worry about them even moreso than Indy in the post season.

Last season, outside of that awful 2-9 stretch in the middle of the season, we were on a 58 win pace so I’m expecting to win somewhere around that amount. My biggest concern is the improvement of the rest of the East. Detroit and Charlotte should be worse than last year but Boston, Philly, Toronto (pending Kawhi trade), Orlando, Miami, and Washington should all be improved from last season.

I think you’re right, Bernie.

I also think Orlando is a real regular sleeper. They got a new coach, and they’re going to grind every single night. They could be this year’s Detroit (i.e. great regular season but not much of a playoff threat).

Atlanta’s sneaky good, too! They lack star power but they were gangbusters without Trae, and added Dort and Wiggins. That’s another potential Detroit.

And then there’s actual Detroit! They won 60 and no one’s even talking about them.

Cleveland’s weird. No one takes them seriously but not many teams are actually better than them.

And the range of outcomes for Toronto is ridiculous. They have a very high ceiling if Kawhi comes and is the player he was last year (he was insanely good).

Which leads me to a question… do you guys feel excited that the East is this competitive, or would you rather it be as easy as it was back in the day when Cleveland used to have a straight march to the finals every year?

If all you want is the ring, then the answer is obvious. But I bet this will be the most fun regular season we’ve had since the 90s.

The 76ers as currently constituted don’t seem to have enough defense. Embiid and LeBron in the front court… not really bueno. Edgecombe is probably their best defender and Jaylen Brown is probably their second best. Edgecombe plays good POA defense but he’s 6’4” so that leaves Brown as their big wing defender in the Anunoby kind of role.

Just seems like that’s gonna hold them back from running up an elite regular season record. They were a league average defense last year and to me it doesn’t look like they’ve improved on that end.

Embiid’s health or lack thereof is a major X factor here.

i know it’s a thing to say that teams get up to play at msg. and i’m sure they do in some meaningful internal sense for some players. but it’s really easy to show that even so, it either makes no difference or makes a difference that is exactly offset by something else like the msg being a better home crowd by the exact amount that they inspire opponents and thus still makes no difference. that is, the knicks home vs. away spreads are the same as the average team home vs away spreads in a given year, and nyk performance against home spreads are likewise completely average in the long run.

Silver got the parity he wanted, and maybe it is better for the league, but it will make it very tough to repeat, even with our high level of talent.

There’s so much luck involved (health-wise, ref-wise), but at least we have had our starters essentially “figured out” for some time now. Continuity is a big plus when there’s so much parity.

But there are still bad teams. Out of boredom, I checked out a Nets blog yesterday, but surprisingly saw a lot of positivity over there. They seem to feel good about Sean Marks’ rebuild so far. It feels like a tough time to rebuild, but it will be interesting to see what they do. It’s also just wild that Randle’s back in town!

Another factor to consider in addition to those stated above is how hard the Knicks will push for regular season wins. Last season, the team’s effort and performance was very Jeckyll and Hyde like that seemed calibrated to just push enough to win. Now with the confidence of having one the Chp, I wonder how hard the team will grind for regular season wins.

I’m expectng a disppointing regular season.

A lot of east either got better.

James, Davis (didn’t really play for the Wizards last year), Dort and potentially Leonard moved west to the east.

The Wizards got the #1 pick.

Haliburton is back.

Tatum is better than Brown.

The Magic were decimated by injuries all season and have a new coach.

We got a little worse with the loss of Mitch.

I also think there almost has to be some emotional bouce after winning it all last year, at least for awhile.

It would not shock me if we win fewer games this year but then step it up in the playoffs with backup “C” being the big question mark from now until Leon does something.

ptmilo

Maybe a lot of teams “get up” for the Knicks both at home and away and gamblers know that and adjust the spread. If we moved to Seattle, we might win an extra 3-4 games with this team. 😉

Hubert, to answer your question, for me I very much disliked the first three Atlanta playoff games, and while the results of each of the finals games were mostly euphoric it was hateful to experience them. Turns out I’m a big fan of winning by 51. But I’ll take winning by 30…

Honestly, the East seems much stronger than the West this season. The Pelicans, the Warriors, the Kings, the Trail Blazers, the Jazz, the Suns, the Grizzlies and the Clippers may have some reasons for optimism, but they don’t seem to have as much potential as any of the East teams just mentioned here.

It’s kinda wild that the we finally have a championship team and all of the sudden there’s a second apron, anti-tanking measures, and the East is the better conference.

If we had the CBA and Eastern Conference of the 2010s we’d probably win 65 games and be a lock for the finals.

That said, if we play our cards right (i.e. if we don’t overextend ourselves in the regular season in a vain attempt to prove ourselves every night) I think we’ll still be the best team in the East come playoffs time.

The 76ers as currently constituted don’t seem to have enough defense. Embiid and LeBron in the front court… not really bueno. Edgecombe is probably their best defender and Jaylen Brown is probably their second best. Edgecombe plays good POA defense but he’s 6’4” so that leaves Brown as their big wing defender in the Anunoby kind of role.

Just seems like that’s gonna hold them back from running up an elite regular season record. They were a league average defense last year and to me it doesn’t look like they’ve improved on that end.

All of this is correct but IMO it’s not their biggest issue. They don’t have enough shooting. LBJ has always been shaky and Brown is a 32% guy of late. Embiid is okay but mostly won’t be playing, so we are looking at 2-3 weak shooters most of the time.

You can overcome having a couple of weak shooters (see Detroit, at least in the RS). You can overcome having a couple of weak defenders (see us). What I’m pretty sure you can’t overcome is both.

For this reason, I see Philly as way less than the sum of their parts. I think they’re a 48 win team. Health and age will be definite concerns, but even beyond those, the basketball pieces just don’t fit that well.

Honestly, the East seems much stronger than the West this season.

I think the East was stronger than the West last season, too. It really came on in the second half, and all the West teams below OKC & SA fell apart.

I agree with JK and Pags about Philly’s defense and shooting being too much to overcome in the playoffs.

But regular season basketball is all about which stars play and who gives the most effort.

Brown & Maxey play every night — big minutes, too.

Brown just won 56 games with Derrick White and a bunch of try hards. And Maxey won 45 games with bums.

Nick Nurse is Thibsian. He’s going to play those guys huge minutes and everyone around them is going to give maximum effort .

If you took Embiid and LeBron off that team completely, I think I’d still pick them to win 50.

Brown & Maxey play every night

It seems I have to correct myself bc Jaylen Brown plays less than I thought. He’s a 66-71 game per year player.

Doesn’t change my opinion that this is going to be a very high effort regular season team outside of the two old guys.

Brown is going to be possessed.

Interesting. I had no idea that Jaylen Brown was only about a ~70-game-per-regular season guy, either. He’s missed 126 games in his 10-year career.

looking at the odds to win the eastern conference, nba cup, and nba finals all seem to favor the celts way too much…

seem to also be saying the pistons’ season last year was a fluke…I’d disagree…

philly will probably end up with the 4th or 5th seed in our conference…chemistry and health will hold them back a bit…

Unlikely that the Sixers come storming, full speed, right out of the gate. Even a legit Super Team like the Heatles needed a few months in its first season together to sort things out. Hard to imagine that Philly’s fugazi Super Team will somehow get its act together more quickly than that.

Gondrezick, the flip-side argument to that is that three of the five starters have played together, Embiid will have had the summer to heal a bit, and LeBron is super smart and will likely be happy to fit in however is necessary. It’s really Brown that may need a bit of time to adapt in terms of fitting in and where his shots will come from.

Just a ton of mysteries this coming season, all over the place. It’s going to be interesting (and hopefully not too painful) to watch the answers play out.

The other flip side is that “storming out of the gate” isn’t really the point. That Heatles team won 58 games.

Effort & depth is more valuable than continuity over the 82 game grind. The top two seeds in the East were the two teams that tried the hardest, not the two best teams.

Teams like the Knicks, Cavs, Pacers, and Heat are going to give intermittent effort while pacing themselves for the playoffs.

Teams like the Sixers, Celtics, Magic, Pistons will go balls to the wall every night.

Most of the Sixers, I mean. Obviously LeBron and Embiid will not.

Hey geo, maybe not your groove, but just heard that Ron Carter, Herbie Hancock, Terrence Blanchard, Kenny Garrett, Christian McBride, and others will be at the Hollywood Bowl August 19 for Miles’ Davis’ 100th birthday.

Walked in on Ron and his quartet in a random bar after dance practice down in NYC back in the day. Still a super-strong memory watching those octopus fingers moving around the bass.

That’s a dope function, Raven. Rockit still one of the greatest tracks ever. I also think we’re winning the chip again this year.

thanks raven, hope your day is moving along wonderfully…

currently in good spirits cuz finally felt compelled to leave the house this week to go run an errand…bank where there was a loving lady helping folks there, dispensary wherein was able to have a “brief” (walked out with a box) discussion about life and stuff with a chill young person…and finally, stopped by my fave chinese spot for some chicken noodles and spicy chicken and rice…

yes sir, life is good…running money numbers lately…big lesson learned, dang, don’t have kids, just joking, a little…still grinding away on the home, most rooms are cleared and set, digging in on the garage now…time to let some stuff from the past go…weird double feeling…regret/relief…

not sure when my next show might be…the show you mentioned sounds wonderful though, lots of cool jazz…

even better question, where, when and what will be the next sporting event to see…live and with other folks nearby…

think venue might be most focused thing going forward…sounds like the beginnings of a great conversation with a now readily available heuristically programmed algorithmic computer buddy…

HAL act as a custom itinerary specialist and find me a pacific US coastal venue seating less than five thousand featuring this list of spectacular artists…

now i just got to make a list…got tired figuring out the prompt part, will do the list later…

good talk raven…enjoy it all, or as much of it as possible…

think/hope we get some kind of load management thing from day 1 with our starters…okay – that’s some hyperbole…just a little bit…

no rest for the weary to everyone else, if healthy be ready to start and play 20 to 30 minutes every game…

biggest difference this season for the new york knicks – we’ve had that guy on our team for the last 2 seasons…now whenever we get on the court every other team in the league now knows we have that guy…so cool to see jalen brunson, JB be him…

plus OG, KAT, mikal – josh…go med staff go…and the whole coming back consistently, in really high stake games, has got to creep other teams out – rode or home…like relentless wolves just tracking you down to finish you off…ruthless…

I’d like to storm out of the gate because it then does allow you to load manage more during the middle part of the season.

If you jump out and go 16 and 4 your first twenty games, you can afford to tread water for the next twenty or thirty games before ramping up at the end of the season.

Even though tanking won’t be a thing as much this year, I think you will still see the bad teams wave the white flag at some point in the last twenty games of the season and play their bench and young players more to get them reps bc there’s no point in overplaying your vets on we you’re eliminated from the playoffs.

I believe that this will be a very memorable season for the NBA. The anti-tanking measures will have a very significant impact, possibly an enormous one. So will the return of several notable stars from injury…most notably Tatum, Hali, VanVleet, Butler, Kyrie, and to a lesser degree, others as well….for example, Giannis. The perennial doormats like the Wiz, Jazz, Kings, Hornets, as well as teams that have been down on their luck…Bulls, Grizz, Mavs…are going to be trying to gain a foothold in the pecking order. No free lunches any more.

I’m wondering how much of a toll this more intense grind will take on the players, and whether there will be significant player movement prior to the deadline. Fascinating stuff.

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